[JESUS LISTENS MONTHLY SERIES] Marriage Prayers Part 2: Turning Our Conflict Into Connection with Dr. Dan Allender & Dr. Steve Call

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Hi, everybody.

I'm Susie McIntyre, Eaton for Jesus.

Listen Stories of Prayer.

The second episode of our podcast with Dr. Alander

and Dr. Steve Call is so amazing.

We're going to get deeper into how our methods

of relating our methods of communicating

may be influencing the awareness of our marriage.

So stay tuned.

We're going to go into the studio

and speak with Dr. Steve Call and Dr. Dan Alander

about their new book, The Deep Rooted Marriage.

We're here with Dr. Dan Alander and Dr. Steve Call.

It is so good to be with you guys again.

And this is part two.

So if you did miss the first one,

you need to go back and get just a little bit more

of a background on what we're talking about.

You talk about the intention to bless

and moving into each other's stories

or each other's trauma or each other's trigger points

or whatever it is that is alive right then.

And holding the intention to bless,

can you say more about that?

Contempt, which we talked a little bit about the last time,

is a form of judgment.

It's a way of making the other person pay

because their differences create disappointment

and there is division.

When we feel unsafe, we feel in some ways

a little bit lost, we often make our spouse pay.

Well, is that that moment where we're doing

the very opposite of blessing?

Blessing truly is I want glory and goodness and beauty

for you and I know God has enabled me to be

the face of God on your behalf.

So in that sense, we are passing on to the other.

Something of the great blessing and number six

of May his face shine upon you.

We get to be the face of God shining upon our spouse

even in the midst of hard, hard conversations.

That's what we mean by blessed.

Dr. Call, what do you want to say about it?

You know, the face of God on behalf of our spouse,

I think that's a really beautiful image.

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The way you just described the story around,

where did that come from?

You know, like when we're having this interaction

between us as spouses and you're,

like, where did that come from or comes from somebody else?

I think that where did you come from?

How is that asked?

Again, how is that question asked?

What's the posture of the wondering?

Is it a tone of accusation or blame

or is it, again, a tone of wondering,

a tone of curiosity?

And I think if we hope for nothing else,

that really is it, is inviting couples to be

where the posture in which they ask that question.

And so of course, there's a protective response.

So what are you going to do with what I revealed to you?

What are you going to do with what I share with you?

That's often, again, that I want to really honor

the need to protect.

Like that's what fear says, fear protects us.

But it's the illusion of protection

that actually more often than not,

it's the opposite of that.

That actually it does create safety.

It does create intimacy.

But fear says don't.

Fear says don't expose.

Don't reveal.

Because at times it might have been

in the past used to harm us in some form or another.

So it's a form of safety, but again, the illusion of safety.

Now when we get married, we want this person

to always stay that person.

We all know they are not going to stay the same.

How can we let go of that expectation

that they'll always be the same as when we married them?

So one of the things that we underline in the book

is how important it is that we name what

grew us to one another.

Because it wasn't just the beauty and the physicality

of the other.

There was something about the other

that promised without even knowing it, redemption,

a change, something of a return of the loss,

a kind of restoration of what was stolen.

And in all that, if we were to actually say,

our marriages are meant to redeem us, to restore us,

and it's going to be just like any other form of sanctification,

a disruptive, messy, complex, and lifetime process,

then we have then the commitment not to change one another,

but in so many ways to be transformed by one another.

It's the very part of us, God is created for all mammals

that long for connection and intimacy,

and as Steve put it, for safety.

And yet oftentimes, it's how we move into a conflict,

not the avoidance that allows for a sense of,

oh, there is safety, even though we differ,

even though there is a potential for conflict growing,

I know you are pursuing me.

And that changes the tonality.

Intimacy calls me to be known at levels

I don't want to be known.

I just rather not talk about it.

It's fine if she talks about it,

but I'd rather maintain the stoic aloof caregiver.

And so what advice would you give or framework of thinking

would you give to me to help embolden me,

to step into more of wisely trusting her with parts of me?

I'm not even sure of.

Literally when we expose ourselves to what we're afraid of

and we weren't harmed,

oh, it reinforces now the narrative,

oh, I can step toward what I'm afraid of and not harm me.

In a perfect dialogue that would be true,

but what about for the people who they have exposed their fears,

maybe in not a very articulate way,

and their spouse didn't handle that.

Just naming the impact of that interaction

where you're not blaming the other,

but the primary word is,

I know my own response to you right now

is not what I want to be.

So in that beginning point,

then the question becomes,

do you want to engage differently?

Do you want a different interaction now?

Can you go begin the process of engaging?

What's happening in your own heart?

So having the ability to name confess,

but also honor by inviting,

but where the invitation cannot be held well,

being able to honor,

well, we need at least some degree of momentary separation.

I need to go tend to my heart.

You need to go tend to yours.

That is an avoidance.

That's creating a context

to create different levels of new safety.

I mean, we're all being real with you today.

We all have our problems.

Even Dr. Allender and Dr. Kall,

who talk about this and wrote this book right here,

they still have to practice what they preach.

Guys, we always close the episode

with a reading from Jesus' Listen Stories of Prayer.

And this is April 19th.

All knowing God, you have searched me and known me.

You understand my thoughts from afar

and you are intimately acquainted with all of my ways.

How thankful I am to be fully known by you.

Everything about me is visible to you,

including my most secret thoughts and feelings.

This transparency would terrify me

if I were not your beloved child.

But I have nothing to fear

because your perfect righteousness

has been credited to me through my faith and you.

I'm so grateful to be a permanent member

of your royal family.

I can dive right in,

asking you to help me cope with the things I'm facing

and I can spend time just relaxing with you,

breathing in the joy of your presence

in your role, name, Jesus, amen.

What an honor it has been for me to be with you

on this two-part series of Jesus' Listen Stories of Prayer.

I wanna thank Dr. Allender and Dr. Call

for taking the time out of their precious schedule

to be with us to enrich our lives.

We'll be back with another guest at another time,

but until then, I want you to remember something

that Jesus hears you, he cares for you

and he's just a prayer away.

I'll see you next time.

I'm Susie McIntyre-Eaten.

Be sure to follow us on social media

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on YouTube where you'll find the video version

of this interview.

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