Joe Green On Death of Jesse Jackson and the MLK Assassination

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It's the Opperman Report.

And now, here is Investigator in Opperman.

Okay, welcome to the Opperman Report.

I'm your host, Private Investigator in Opperman.

You're going to hold me in Opperman Investigations

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Got a nice special show for you.

We have Joe Green returning back.

Has it been banned?

Has it been here in a while?

And he said some medical problems, man.

Thank God we got him.

He's got him back.

He's alive and well.

And we have him back here.

And we're going to be talking about Jesse Jackson

and the history of Jesse Jackson.

Now, Joe, are you there?

I am here and how's it going?

Going good.

I forgot to ask you about the plugs, man.

So let's just do that right now.

What do you want to plug?

You could plug my last book,

Tinful Hat Not Included.

That's, that book is still available.

Tinful Hat Not Included.

Now, we did a whole show about that.

So if you go back to a look pre-entity

and check that out as well.

The plan is to have a new book.

But my writing has not been going so great.

I should say that I apologize for the way my voice sounds.

But this is actually pretty good.

I had a series of strokes last year.

And I'm still recovering from that.

Yeah, when I first picked up the phone,

you sounded the, you sounded a lot better now

than you did when you first connected.

So that's great news.

Yeah, there's a little update.

I know what is going on with the help.

Well, I mean, it's kind of,

it's a long boring story, really.

But I had a series of strokes that came out of nowhere.

And I would have died, except my ex-wife

had this feeling something was wrong.

She went to my apartment and she banged on the door

and waited out there for like three or four hours

until they would agree to call EMS.

And EMS found me in my apartment.

I was lying on the floor, like making these weird jerky motions.

And they said, if she hadn't done that, I'd be dead.

Wait a second.

So she had like a psychic premonition

that something was wrong when she was talking to you.

Yeah, I mean, faith is native.

She's a child, she's chocked off.

And she's very tied into her intuition.

And this kind of thing has happened before.

But she literally just felt like she needed to come see me.

And even though I wasn't answering the door,

she knew something is wrong.

And so she kept banging on it and trying to turn to get in.

Seeing a my ex-wife would take that opportunity

to suffocate me.

Yeah.

And then, you know, they're making an alibi for herself.

But she's not the same town.

Okay, man.

God, let's jump right there.

We still love each other.

It's a good thing.

Oh, thank God, man.

That's a beautiful story, man.

I said, that's a show in itself.

It's a good, crazy, yep.

Now, the reason I contacted you to do this

was because I saw a post on Facebook

about the passing on of the Rainbow Push Coalition.

And then Mr. Jesse, Reverend Jesse Jackson.

What can you tell us, my friend?

I'm here for all the smoke.

Because it's a little bit aggravating

to see all these people saying, you know,

the great leader Jesse Jackson is gone.

And so here's a thing about Jesse.

Like, there's a whole sort of right wing attack

on Jesse Jackson that has always been firm.

And like the book, Shake Down, for example,

is about Jesse Jackson.

And I'm not with a lot of those right wing criticisms.

I have a very direct criticism of Jesse Jackson,

which goes back to Martin Luther King.

And as he started getting involved,

I think he was at the,

I think it's involving the Montgomery bus boycott

when he was about 14 or 15 years old.

He was a teenager.

And when Martin Luther King got killed,

he was still in his 20s.

And he was part of a group of people

who were with Martin in Memphis on April 4, 1968.

And what happened was that after King was shot,

Jesse Jackson went to the body.

He was, I guess I should back up a little bit.

There's a courtyard.

If you've ever been to the National Civil Rights Museum,

which is the motel where Martin Luther King was killed,

there's a courtyard.

And he, Martin Luther King had originally had a room

down on the courtyard.

And if he'd kept that room,

a lot more difficult to shoot him.

So somebody in Martin Luther King's camp

made a phone call to get his room moved

to that upper balcony, so that he could be shot.

So we don't know who made that call,

but there's a strong suspicion that it was Jesse.

Really?

Yes.

And I say that because after,

I mean, it's crazy that after King got killed,

two people ran up to him.

One was Merrill McCullough.

Merrill McCullough was an FBI informant

who later joined the CIA.

Well, he says he later joined the CIA.

He made well of it and working for the CIA at this point too.

And essentially his job was to make sure King was dead.

So there's a real famous picture

of the assassination of Martin Luther King,

where you can see people pointing

over Martin Luther King's body.

And the guy that's standing right there is Merrill McCullough,

who was, again, another young guy.

He had joined a kind of black Panther type

splinter group in Memphis,

but he was working at undercover.

The other person who went up to him was Jesse Jackson.

And with Jesse Jackson was he dipped his hands

in Dr. King's blood,

spread it all over his shirt.

He then traveled to Chicago that night

so that he could appear on a television the next morning.

And the next morning, he told the world, basically,

that Dr. King had passed the torch to him,

that in his dying moments,

that Dr. King had told him, you know,

you need to take this mantle.

Martin Luther King was shot in the throat.

He didn't say anything to Jesse Jackson.

So that is, it was pure skull-duggery.

I mean, whether or not you believe

that Jesse Jackson was involved in the assassination or not,

and I can't tell you that he was,

he definitely sprang into action immediately

to take advantage of it.

He saw it right away that I can do this.

And he's, by the way, he wore that bloody shirt

the next morning on TV.

He said, this is Dr. King's blood that I have on me.

Wasn't there another person on that balcony

that later on didn't interview and said,

we gave them plenty of room

so they would have a clear shot.

Who was that?

So the Reverend Billy Kyle, he said that.

So in 1999, there was a civil trial

against, I mean, against Lloyd Gowers

who wasn't involved in the assassination at some level.

We don't know exactly how,

but Gowers knew the guys who were doing the assassination.

And that civil trial found Gowers 30% responsible

and 70% to other sources, including the US government.

Yeah, wasn't that Judge Joe Brown, the TV judge?

Well, Judge Joe Brown had originally been,

you have to go back to the early 70s.

So when they were having the first trial of James O'Rain

who's the accused assassin of Dr. King,

Judge Joe Brown was the judge.

Oh, really?

He was.

The problem was that Judge Joe Brown said,

okay, go ahead and bring in the evidence

and like we're gonna have a real trial.

And as soon as he said that,

all of a sudden the newspapers turned against him.

He'd been an extremely popular figure in Memphis.

All of a sudden the news is talking about this activist judge

who's doing crazy things in the James O'Rain trial.

And eventually he got removed from that case

and they brought in another judge

who would not have a real trial.

The other thing is that Judge Joe Brown

is a ballistic expert.

So one of the many, many problems with the state's case

is that the rifle that was used by the allegedly

used by the assassin has a scope

that had not been put on correctly.

So if you fired the weapon it would be off by a foot or two.

Wow.

And that machine, you have to have what's called

a collating machine that can straighten out the gun

and with the scope.

You can't do it by hand.

So and Joe Brown is the guy who initially said that.

He said, look, this is the way the rifle is.

So he thought that it was a strange case right from the start

which is why he was eager to see the evidence.

But the state doesn't want to have an evidential trial.

They want to say, James O'Rain's guilty slammed on.

Now what about an official story of the distance

between the alleged shooter and the victim?

At least it's possible that they didn't need the scope?

You know, that's a harder question.

I don't know.

So I went to the National Civil Rights Museum in 2008.

It was the 40th anniversary of Dr. King's murder.

In fact, I was there with Joseph Brown.

And the way they had the National Civil Rights Museum set up,

they had a glass partition.

So you are not able to walk up to the window

where this shot allegedly came from.

So you can't see very well

because they've got to blocked off.

You can't get close up to really see

which is a curious thing to do in the first place.

Like why would you not want people to be able to

like see it on their own?

The really strange thing is that the tub

in that room, because there's a communal bathroom.

So this place, Bessie's boarding house was a real dump.

And it's interesting because the only reason

Dr. King stayed there is because there was a newspaper report

that had said that when Dr. King went to Memphis,

he always stayed at the Holiday Inn

and not in the black side of town.

So for this trip, Martin Luther King decided

I'm going to stay in a black owned motel

because he'd gotten this criticism and newspaper

which again, it looks like that's part of the set up as well

to get him over there.

And it was in that 1999 civil trial

that Reverend Billy Kyle said the thing that you mentioned

that he says I got out of the way

so they can have a clear shot

which is white?

Yeah.

Like he just volunteers this.

I'm like, what do you mean?

And he never really clarifies what he means

by that, but that's a hell of a statement

to say that you got out of the way

so they can have a clear shot.

Oh yeah, and he says it real slow too.

At least I can give it a sermon, you know?

And we get out of the way.

So they would have a clue.

You know, and the person I saw that Dick Gregory

was playing the tape, you know?

Yeah, but has this Reverend Kyle,

has he ever commented about this, made a statement?

He's been interviewed.

I mean, he doesn't talk about it a lot.

But he was interviewed, but he, no one,

say, I mean, the thing is is that,

I mean, you know how the media works in this country?

Yeah.

No one's going to follow up on that.

Well, first of all, no one knew about it

because the 1999 civil trial was not covered by the press at all.

The only person who was there every day of that trial

was Jim Douglas.

Jim Douglas who wrote JFK and he's a speaker.

He just had a new book about martyrs and these people.

He's a beautiful man, great man.

And Jim was the only reporter that had been there every single day

and he was reporting for Pro magazine,

which is Jim Diagenio's magazine that eventually became Sipkite

and eventually became Kennedy's and King.

Yeah.

So it was a tiny, tiny outlet,

whereas the major press were just totally ignoring it.

And it's hard to explain that.

Like, why would this not be news?

And then when the civil trial had the result that it had

with 70% of US government and 30% of Lloyd Gowers

having participated in the assassination,

according to the jury,

they reported it very quickly as if it were joke.

They never did any analysis.

It's not like, you know, they didn't ask Dick Gregory about it.

They didn't ask Sarah Wecht about it.

Nothing.

So they buried this thing.

And it's very hard to see why they would bury it,

unless there was a US government involvement.

I mean, that would be the only reason.

If it really was just James Norway,

why not cover the trial?

And if someone like Jesse Jackson was screaming from the rooftop,

hey, this is all the conspiracy to cover up.

And then they might cover that.

Exactly.

And he did not do any of those things.

And to be fair,

now you did William Pepper.

William Pepper had been a reporter for Ramparts Magazine,

a photojournalist.

And he had taken photographs of a Vietnam.

It was called the Children of Vietnam.

And that particular issue of Ramparts

will just fry your soul.

I have a copy of it.

And just children with chemical burns on their bodies.

And Dr. King saw the magazine.

And when he saw the magazine,

he says, I got to meet this guy.

And so they brought Pepper to meet him.

And Dr. King had him speak to his congregation.

And he was like, you know,

you know, I'm like a honky, right?

Like him.

You want this white guy to talk to your congregation

and say, yes, I do.

Because you were there and you saw it.

So Pepper didn't say anything about the assassination initially.

He's come a couple of years to really realize what had happened.

It was just like,

just the idea that he had supported this man

who would then be murdered by white supremacy.

It was kind of too much form.

And he stayed out for a while.

But eventually he came back in and he became James O'Rea's lawyer.

And it was the key person to get that 1999 trial going.

Yeah, I've tried to book Pepper.

You know, I never could never get him.

I tried to book Joe Brown until you want 800 bucks.

Yeah.

Yeah.

He came out to Memphis for the coalition on political assassinations meeting

because he was a good friend of John Judge.

Yeah.

And John Judge asked him to,

and in fact,

just running and throwing a little bit of money to Copa

because that the meeting wasn't well attended,

which is too bad because it was great.

And he gave a great keynote speech.

But yeah, yeah.

Judge O'Rea Brown normally doesn't do stuff with,

unless you pay him.

Pepper was in Great Britain.

He moved to, he was a barrister in England for many years.

So I've only, I only met him once myself.

Actually, there was also 2008,

but it was in Los Angeles at the RFK convention in LA.

And he only came in for a little while.

It basically set high-gives an update in the case,

and then he had to leave.

So he was a busy dude.

And it was funny to say, 2008.

It feels like just yesterday.

It was almost 20 years ago.

Oh.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so crazy.

And it just, it does feel like it was yesterday.

And it was, we had a great time in it.

You know, his hand with Judge O'Rea Brown

and everywhere you go with him in Memphis,

like there's a huge crowd of people

who are all trying to get his attention

and they give him stuff like here.

I need you to take a look at my son's case, you know.

And he would take it and say, OK, you know, I'll look at it.

And he said, you know, I could be mayor of this town,

but they pay me too much damn money for that television show.

Yeah, right.

This is funny.

You know, I can't, I can't let it pass.

Man, what you mentioned ramparts

and right away I thought of pole crafting.

Did you read the files?

Oh, does Crasner appear in the Epstein files?

Dude, yeah.

Oh, my God.

I know, I know.

It started out the first batch, the last batch that came out.

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The name came up and he was the first contacted Epstein

about the kidney Johnson case,

which is my case.

That was the P.I.

Yes, you know.

Yeah.

So no, you know, and I remember Paul Crasner when I was a kid

from high-times magazine with the Ippies and when we said,

you know, it was like a hero.

You know, and I see.

Yeah.

Right.

You know.

I only got to meet Crasner in like the last year of his life.

Okay.

And I thought he was great.

We had a great conversationist.

And I would be, I reviewed one of his books for him.

And, uh, man, that's that's disappointed here.

Well, get this.

Then that was the first batch.

And they mentioned something about he was thanking Epstein

for the money.

And Epstein was, oh, and unfortunate to be able to support,

you know, blah, blah, blah.

And then we go back and forth just to sharing articles and things,

you know.

But in this new batch, it appears he was getting paid $5,000 a month.

Holy crap.

Yeah.

A foundation was getting paid $5,000.

I know.

It's like a shining heart.

You know.

Huh.

I know, man.

I know.

Yeah.

What?

Maybe there's a.

He's, you know, he said he had to defend himself, you know.

Right.

You can't.

You can't.

You can't.

You can't.

You can't do anything without anymore.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So back to, uh, Dr. King though.

Yes.

Yes.

Yeah.

So, um, so what.

Jesse Jackson would do.

We eat that.

That was the.

The thing that sort of put him on the map point.

And so that.

And then he, he became.

Uh, the quote unquote black leader.

Um, for, for a long time.

Um, there were always other ones.

In fact, Dick, Dick Gregory.

When he was alive was.

Um, this sort of.

The, the, the, the wise old man in the mountain.

Yeah.

You know, like people like Michael Jackson and.

Uh, so would, would go to him and ask him.

Like for guidance for, for mentorship.

Um, because Dick Gregory, you know, knew so much.

And listen, you know, such a brilliant, brilliant guy.

Um, but Jesse Jackson became the, the sort of the face.

Of the rainbow push coalition and.

Uh, the idea was that, you know, that he was going to be the guy.

I guess Al Sharpton does, to some extent too.

That he would be, he would always be asked about anything racial.

That happened in this country.

Um, what would I tell you to do?

Like in addition to the fact that, that Jesse Jackson did those things.

There's a real good book.

And it was written by Barbara Reynolds.

Uh, I think it was 1975.

It's around there when it came out.

Um, she knew, actually, she's, she's still alive.

She knew Jesse very well.

She had worked with Jesse Jackson.

And her observations in that book are that basically Jesse was, uh,

a fame whore.

Um, you know, she doesn't use that in those words.

But she's describing somebody.

Uh, Jesse would say, we're going to do this thing.

We're going to have this big march.

And people will come out.

And then he would split.

So when the real work came to get anything done, he was on to the next city.

To get in front of more cameras.

And it seemed to have been the pattern throughout his whole life.

That Jesse Jackson would talk big.

And was not a negative figure.

I mean, you know, I am somebody like that.

It was a great speech.

And it was helpful.

But when you actually had to get down to the nitty gritty,

he was not to be there to be found.

So he didn't do a whole lot to help the plight of ordinary black folks.

And Barbara Reynolds says this is early as 1975,

that Jesse Jackson's getting in bad with corporations.

Yeah.

You know, so you, you talk to a bank or something.

And it gives money.

And you get to say, Jesse Jackson supports his bank, you know,

he takes money and runs.

Yeah.

And he did that his whole life.

So it's, I don't say that he was entirely a negative figure.

But he didn't do nearly the good that he could have done.

And in my view, he got his position by doing something that no human

being should have ever done, which is to take advantage of the fact that

Dr. King got murdered.

Yeah.

And even if you're not involved in the actual assassination,

to be able to separate yourself and say, I'm going to get mine,

regardless, to me, is unforgivable.

Yeah, like the over the day.

The opportunism.

Yeah.

And over a dead body, especially someone you're willing to respect

and mentor someone you'll look up to.

Yes.

Oh.

I mean, yeah.

Yeah.

And then, I mean, and King had had problems within his group anyway.

The Southern Christian Leadership Conference was, we're not happy that

Dr. King had started talking about Vietnam, which he did incidentally on April 4, 1967,

which is to say exactly one year to the day that he was murdered before he was murdered.

He gave his first big speech about Vietnam.

And again, that speech was influenced by the fact that he had read that ramparts article.

Very interesting.

What do you make, too, of Jesse Jackson, his deal with the Democratic Party?

And I saw his list of demands and I was a kid when I was with the Ibbies.

And he was one of his own plane.

He won our private plane.

And to be paid a sum of salary, not to run for president again.

And I don't know what the deal was.

I've never got it or not, but it seems to be.

You never ran again.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I have always just feeling that he did get some of what he was asking for because he.

So, so the weird thing is is that, um,

Jesse Jackson was never.

He was never close to winning the nomination.

But he had a lot more support than I think the DNC was aware of.

Um, I think an 8080 came in like third.

And 84 was like, I can't, I can't remember exactly.

But he got significant percentages of the American popular enough to make him.

A someone who you have to negotiate with.

Spoiler.

He could split the boat.

Yeah.

So, so Jesse Jackson doesn't like your candidate.

You know, you're going to have to placate him.

Maybe we're going to give him that new plane.

Um, which I, I always took that, that list of demands.

It looked to me like the kinds of demands that creatures make.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I got to have my rings, got to have my Cadillac.

Got to have my private plane.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What I used to, I always want to travel in tent ministry for a few years.

Okay.

Gospel, tent ministry.

Cool.

Oh, yeah, man.

So I want to have these times.

I'm like, let me tell you.

And what part of my thing was we could shop a town and we'll make a coalition of local churches.

And there was always one that demands.

You know, I've got to be first.

I got to be first.

I get on the most time.

I don't know.

I do what I need to.

A stipend for hers.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Of course.

Of course.

Of course.

Exactly.

And so with that's pointing to is, is I think that something that I think that we're still struggling

with now is that whether you're Republican or Democrat is not really the issue because everybody

is getting their piece of the pie.

Yeah.

You know, Bill Clinton was not a liberal president.

Pete is seeing that way because he was in the Democratic Party.

But actually, you know, this whole Super Predators thing came out of from Hillary.

Yeah.

A great increases in black imprisonment continued under Bill Clinton.

Like, they talk a good game.

But when you actually look at what they're doing, they're not actually doing anything to help the people.

And that's what Barbara Reynolds says about Jesse Jackson in her book.

That this dude, he, he looks good on television.

He says the right things.

Yeah.

But when you actually need him to do something, he doesn't.

Well, Jesse was always a capitalist, right?

Yeah.

I'm a socialist.

I'm not a capitalist.

Yeah.

But he was always a capitalist, right?

Yeah.

Oh, absolutely.

Absolutely.

Well, I mean, and the, and the, the other interesting thing about that is, of course, you know,

King was considered a socialist.

In fact, he was attacked as a communist.

And the newspapers, they said that the Russia was, you know, sending him money and all this thing.

And yeah, Jesse was not part of that.

Jesse would not have been on board with any kind of socialism because it would get in the way of his private plane.

All right.

Right.

And when we were talking to him, I split in the vote and having that, yes, that's what Al Sharpen

did.

And he did that for Republicans.

He went from there in New York City.

Did it for Republicans, yeah?

Yeah.

Under Roger Stone.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

Who's, who's saying, who's another one of those characters that you need to, to look into

Rodgers.

Rodgers, the, the, is the mentor of probably my, my biggest enemy in this whole research business.

But he comes from, of course, speaking of, of New York, the, I just lost his name, which happens sometimes now.

Yeah.

I'll, I'll think of it.

Yeah.

But who's the mentor of that your enemy?

Let's go get him.

Yeah.

I don't want to talk about that again.

I was talking about, but it's been a few years.

I don't want to go beat him up.

Come on, Joe.

Let's go again.

Yeah.

I'm not in any condition to beat up anybody.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What do you call it?

You want to want to laugh?

I was just interviewed.

I was the glow with the inquiries on like that about the, um, what was it about?

Oh, but Bill Clinton and the, um, and the, uh, Clinton Foundation.

I've seen creating a Clinton Foundation.

Oh, yeah.

And who would like go to to confirm my, uh, my reporting?

Roger Stone.

I don't know.

I know.

You know, Roger Stone has to be blocked everywhere.

He's got me on a list.

He tells all his buddies to block me.

You know, but they, they have him quoted around underneath me.

It's, uh, confirming my report.

Wait.

Wait.

Wait.

Wait.

That's a whole separate conversation.

We can get into there.

Yeah.

No.

I have no use for Roger Stone.

Yeah.

No kidding.

I had to say.

You know, do you know that, uh, uh, Ian Howard Hunt's son, St. John Hunt, worked.

Yes.

Went to work for Roger Stone.

That's his, uh, go straight.

Uh, yeah.

I, uh, yeah.

Man.

Uh, uh, uh, so when I first became aware of St. John Hunt, I was still a private investigator myself in those years.

And he was.

I don't know how much detail I want to really get into this, but he.

Uh, St. John Hunt proved to me that he was completely unreliable.

Uh, right away.

Um, and he was working with a guy that was the son of somebody from Alpha 66 from the, which, you know, the Kennedy assassination.

They were the, the guys out in cute in the Florida.

Yeah.

Um, so I, well, and the guy was working with this pretty, is a dangerous guy, frankly.

And so I never trusted St. John Hunt after that.

Very interesting.

Very interesting.

They're out there, you know, and St. John has access to a lot of those guys.

Yes.

He does.

Yeah.

He goes, he goes way back with all of them.

We, you know, these, these, I don't know, I don't know where they come from.

But these, uh, influencers or went, you know, why the hell would anybody listen to anything that Roger Stone says?

And yet they do.

Well, yeah.

Well, I was told, too, that he's one of those guys that has that ability on Twitter to elevate accounts, you know, to really elevate your account.

Usually, and they make you an impulse again.

Interesting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Makes sense, actually.

Yeah.

My question.

Then we're musking it.

Yeah.

Uh, Mr. Joe Green.

Yeah.

Ten foil hat, not included.

Okay.

That was my, that was my last book.

I'm, I'm supposed to have a new one.

Um, I was working on one when I had my first series of strokes.

That has all slowed down a great deal.

But I, I still have enough for the new book.

I just have to edit it and get my brain right so that I can.

Write some stuff because the writing is very difficult these days.

Yeah, I can only imagine, you know, that used to be a bit of a writer myself.

And I just, I got burnt out and I just can't do it.

I wrote like 600 articles.

I just can't do it.

I'll get PI stuff.

Not really.

Yeah.

No, I know what you mean.

But I'm, I've been a writer since I was like six years old.

I knew that early, but then I was going to be a writer.

And it's always been second nature.

But not far.

Yeah.

Well, that's, you know, but at least we still got you, you know.

And you gotta promise me you come back more often, man.

I'm serious.

No.

You get such a wealth of wisdom in here and so much information.

You know, we don't really tap into this stuff.

Please, young kids.

I don't know what's going on.

They think.

They're Charlie Kirk.

Yeah.

Man, man, that, all that stuff is very, and Erica King going back to Eastern Europe.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All that stuff is really strange.

And people don't know a lot of the history of this stuff too.

And it's like Jesse Jackson.

Like, you know, when I made that comment, somebody had messaged me,

like, why do you hate just Jackson?

It's like, well, I'm not saying I hate Jesse Jackson,

but he did do those things.

Like, I'm not making it up.

And the people in King's camp knew that too.

But after a while, you don't want to cross Jesse either.

Because he had so much power.

I mean, Jesse Jackson is the one who made the call to Coretta.

Yeah.

To let her know that her husband was dead.

And Coretta was always, yeah, I shouldn't say always,

but she was cool to Jesse Jackson for a number of years.

And then Al Sharpen brings Coretta to the GOP booth.

Yep.

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Yep.

It's very crazy.

I don't know.

I don't know.

You know what I was wondering the other day,

maybe this isn't the right place to talk about this.

But didn't Al Sharpen?

I saw a program, an HBO program.

I think that had Bryant Gumball.

It was like a sports investigative show.

Yeah.

And they got Al Sharpen on video wanting to buy heroin.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Well, Al Sharpen was an FBI asset.

He was walking around with a briefcase with a recorder in it.

And this whole series of articles about this and village voice.

He was an FBI asset, making cases for the FBI.

And he came into our office,

right now Al Sharpen, but I was going to act this in the streets.

But the late years later, he came into our office and broke them.

This is an organized crime,

PI office.

Yeah.

You know?

And he.

Yeah.

But like the, he came.

Anyway.

You know.

The guy was up to a ton of stuff.

But when we had another guest on it,

to the believes he wasn't just FBI,

but he was also CIA.

He believes he was still as well.

I mean, case of game.

Hospital.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Marilyn McCullough, like it says,

what is the classical example of somebody who was an FBI informant

and also working for the CIA,

apparently Lee Harvey Oswald,

maybe another one.

Was there anybody in that close in the group of the king that spoke up and said,

Hey, you know,

everybody around the city was supposed to.

Not publicly that I'm aware of.

It is well known.

Especially with black folks who were alive during that time.

Right.

They will say things like they were.

Oh, they're aware of just Jackson status.

I've met many black folks who.

Like listen to me and say, yeah, that's right.

Yeah.

That is what happened.

And they kind of know.

Because there's a whole.

What I sometimes call the black CNN, you know, there's a there's a there's a whole.

Series of news that it goes throughout the black community.

That is often not experienced by the white community.

Um, you know, like like our Kelly's.

Videos where.

The first person who brought those up to me was a brother.

He was a friend of mine.

And he was like, man,

you see this are Kelly and I like, I never heard of anything.

And he had already seen like everything that those those videotapes had gone through the community already.

Before they ever made it to the news.

It was like back in the 80s.

The guy was straight new.

That, um, the hell cop this could listen to you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's not only one of those whole comes up there.

They can listen to what we're saying.

You've got to be quiet.

So what are you talking about?

Exactly.

Exactly.

If you go to the barbershop, you're going to make some conspiracy theorists.

Yeah.

That's the truth.

But it's not, you know, of course they're conspiracy theorists.

They're alive.

From their neighborhood.

Right.

No.

Right.

Right.

Right.

I always said, man.

I said, you know, whenever people are talking about some kind of conspiracy.

I said, you know what?

And if the old guys, I know.

You know what I mean from the.

From the.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah and this was scary.

Well, yeah.

But then I'm worried again.

You were so like, yeah.

Yeah and I'm.

It's not a big.

Oh, good.

Not, nothing great but.

I was going to say what's so interesting about that.

Now is it calling somebody conspiracy theorist that really can't be an ap but then anymore.

Considering the Epstein files.

I mean, if you're not a conspiracy theorist at this point.

What's he going to take.

Yeah, but on the other hand, the his story we're seeing with all.

with all this crazy stuff, you know, just, oh yeah, it's just out of control. I've never seen

anything like this. Yeah, no, it's it's brain springing, springing down the

United States. Yeah, it's terrifying. I will put it back to King for a second. No one ever

talks about his mother, his mother was killed. Yes, she was and under suspicious circumstances.

I don't know a lot about that part of it because there was actually the, there was an uncle

or a cousin, somebody else got killed too. Oh, well, during that same period, yeah, the one who

told me, talked about all that was John Judge actually because he was in touch with, I don't know

if it was Dexter, one of the members of the family he knew. And he had talked about the same thing

that there were, there were questions involved in that, in that murder. I don't, I don't know like

a lot of the details of that. But yes, the way I remember it, that is not the only member of his

family that was killed. Yeah, one of the sons was speaking up about it and then he suddenly stopped,

you know. Yeah, I know. It was split in the family. I mean, when, when John was, see, the

coalition on political assassinations had been key in getting the JFK Act passed after all of

Stone's movie and they released six million records after that. Well, John had always wanted to

have an MLK Act that mirrored the JFK Act to try and get all the files related to the, to the

king assassination. But there was always a split in the family. And I think they did not want

any further evidence if there was any more of King's dalliances with other women. Right. I suspect

that was the issue. I don't know that was the issue. But there was always been this hesitation

about, about releasing everything that the FBI had. What did John Judge die from? He died

too. He did. He had, well, he had this, it was, it was basically a stroke. But his was, was heart

generated and he couldn't, couldn't talk after that. So when, I got him on the phone one day,

but he was, and he could hear me, but he wasn't able to respond. That was in, that was just in the

last few months of his life, though. Yeah, we can't render all off the bed. Help you out the bed,

you know, habits. Yeah. And he, he kind of knew. I mean, so the last coalition on public

assassinations, meaning was the 50th anniversary. So, of the, so it was 2013. And John had talked to

me specifically about continuing Copa under a slightly different banner. So he wanted me to sort of

run the organization after that. But, but I was never, you know, I'm not a guy who can run an

organization like, you know, I can, I can help you. I can do like all the things that I was doing.

But I don't know if you really want me running an, an order like that.

But we did take over the Hidden History Center. So we still got that going.

Yeah, there's so much, you know, I know that when Ted Wilkins find that his whole library,

you know, just, you know, old library of books, man, just, you know, should have really been

a college or something, you know. Yeah. We, we, we talked to a number of universities after John's

death and they didn't want his stuff. So he, like George Washington University and a couple other

places. Maybe you could college too. But we didn't find anybody who wanted to take the papers.

So we've kept the papers. Matter of fact, Marilyn, who's the head of the Hidden History Center,

just sent off, like, 290 tapes to be transcribed of John's speeches. Oh, very cool.

So we've got like tons of stuff coming. Yeah, that would be cool. It's recorded speeches.

Yes. Yeah. Any chance I could play those on my platforms?

I mean, I don't, I don't see why not. Oh, yeah, let's, let's reach out. Let's all talk about that.

Yeah. I mean, they, they've got to transcribe and all that. But yeah, I don't,

I don't think that may, I don't think it could be a problem. Yeah, I played Dave Emory and I

played Nick Blusses. And, and the May Blusses film, and they're looking for a home for her wide,

you know, and they have, we, I worked on them with John for a number of years. Right.

We never really got it anywhere. I don't want to talk about that too much because it's,

it's a little bit complicated and, and there's some interpersonal stuff there.

I'm from, yeah, and then AJ Webman to his library. He's found a home for his library. His name is

dead yet. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But they got, they got to take care of his library. He's always a

can-do guy, though, you know what I mean? Yeah. He offered to teach me how to shoot.

He said, if you come by my brownstone, I'll take you on the roof and I'll be, you have to shoot.

Well, it's not like he hasn't done it up there before, right?

Because that was, he was right across from me at the end. I used to get my hash from AJ.

You know this, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so he was, uh, right across from me at the

headquarters out of the hippies. And, um, so one time he had a beep with these guys. I think

it was Ram Dom and, uh, one of the guys from a JDO. Mm-hmm. And, uh, so he had Delabi rigged

that he could lock the doors down there and spray tear gas if people keep him up and keep him hostage

so he had these hostages down there. And it was a stand-up for the police hoping. No charges.

Everybody walks away and I can't set a joke. It's back then, right? Yeah. Well, that's right.

You know what? Things where you definitely were, man. It was a lot, uh, not a lot different than now.

Yeah. Yeah. Funny. What does a Joe Greene think about all this,

many ice agents running around, uh, is good stuff. Oh, well, do you have any hope for our future?

Do you think it's hopefuls? Um, I mean, if I'm frank, I don't see any possibility that we're

going to get out of this. Um, the ice have been acting like a shoot stuff, like the SS.

Yeah. Um, and I think, uh, because other countries have seen what is happening in the US,

and they've started to really come after us economically, which hasn't, we haven't seen anything

yet. Like next year, food is going to become a problem. Oh, yeah. Um, and the fact of the matter is

that, you know, Goldman Sachs has more money in derivatives than the SEC takes care of,

uh, just in derivatives. So the bubble is bigger than it's ever been. So I, I don't honestly see

a way out for the US. I think I think 250 years. I think we're about done.

Yeah. And we just, uh, we're like a weeks away from attacking Iran, which is the oil crisis

with the roof, you know, yep. Yeah. You know, why, why would we do that? Why are we going to do that?

Well, talk about a wag the dog scenario. Yeah. But, but, but I've, but I've always said, though,

that, you know, if every time there's instability in the Middle East, if that causes the value of

oil and aquahoma to double, and it doesn't increase the course of any expenses to pump it, you

know, if I had an oil oil and aquahoma, I'd be dropping bombs over there and I'd be hiring hijackers.

Yeah, that would be my sideline. I'd be hiring hijackers, you know? Absolutely. No,

but I think that's well observed because the, so the government and various corporations do

get in together on stuff in situations where they can both make a buck.

I mean, that was the big crisis in 59 when, uh, when the Batista regime fell and Fidel Castro

took it over. Like, that was a disaster for the mob. Tyler Reddick here from 2311 Racing,

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sponsored by Jamba Casino. Yeah, it was also a disaster for Hoover and Nixon.

Because they had money tied up in Cuba as well.

You know, so you got these governmental issues and the mafia and these various corporations

and they're all cooperating at various levels, not on everything, but on certain things because

they can all, they can all make money. Yeah, enough. It was a smaller crew back in those days too.

Yeah. Let's people spread the money around. And the irony that we're going to see Trump take down

Cuba with this move, going after Venezuela and kind of the oil to Cuba. And keeping food out of

Cuba is like insane. It is horrific. I believe who is it? Is it Sweden that's sending

food? I think Spain. Spain is sending over. Yeah. You know, which that's great, but what the hell are we

doing? I don't know. I'm kind of foreign policy is this. They're making money hands with

her fists, you know, the whole family. Yeah. And actually, that's been the, I mean,

when people were asking about this, like, what's the difference between Donald Trump and the

presidents? Trump is only focused seems to be enriching himself. Yeah. And directly, you know,

not my organization or you can give money to my charity. It's like, no, you just go ahead and

get the money directly to me. Yeah. And no one's standing up to nobody. There's not, there's no

Democrat. What Democrat are we going to get behind? You know, exactly. Exactly. All those DNC and

that's the other thing is that when they're talking about the Epstein files, it's all about this

Trump stuff. And like, yes, we all know Trump is a psychopath, you know, raped kids, frankly.

Yeah. But so do a lot of the people. And they're not all on one side of the aisle or the other.

No, it's definitely, but they all seem to be capitalist. It's one thing. You know, although,

what's his name Epstein was meet with Castro and stuff? And what the hell is going on air, you know?

Yeah. No, it's going on. He has a fascinating guy. I mean, I thought that he was,

that Epstein seems to be like a Kim philby type. And then he was probably working for more than

one intelligent service. Absolutely. But it is bizarre, you know, his interest in quantum physics. And

you know, what is what is going on? Like what is the, what is the center of energy? I don't know

what all the energy is for necessarily. It's really strange. Yeah. And very interesting. Yeah,

that too. We're all find out together. Joe, what are you working on next? Because we want to

set a time. Yeah. I am working on this. I'm actually doing a card deck for, for, for

Maccosm publishing. And I'm, I've got this book that's actually, it's almost done. But like I say,

it's, it's, it's pretty slow going for me personally. So, but I'll, I mean, I'll be coming out

with something sooner or later. Now, is there some way people say, boy, I love Joe Green, man,

I really wanted to help him out. Is there any kind of way people can buy you a cup of coffee or

yeah, I mean, you can buy the book. That's always helpful. My buddy Dave Ratcliffe had set up a

go fund me for me, which was, which was really nice. Yeah. I, I, I think it's, I don't know if

those things close or what, I don't know how those, those work exactly. But, but yeah, if you,

if you want to, you want to help out, you can pick up the book. The book is pretty, I think it's

like 10 bucks, maybe, you know, so it's relatively inexpensive. And then it's called the tin foil hat,

not included. Not included. Yeah. And then of course, there's always defending these one and two,

although I tell people, those are those are sort of advanced studies books. I tried to make 10

foil more readable to the general public. No, we got a go help Joe Green. He left a mercy heart

surgery. That's not you. No, I can send, I can send it to you if I find it. Yes, send it to me

and we'll put it in the description. And I'll plug it up Friday nights. Because it's just heartbreaking.

How many people named Joe Green are in trouble? Yeah, come on me.

Well, and troll every bottom of that. You know, I was going to say too, speaking of Dave

Rackliff, he is coming out with a new version of his book, Understanding Special Operations,

which is his big interview with Fletcher Proudy that he did 1989. Oh,

it's a terrific book. It's really good. And there's a there's a new, I'm not exactly sure

when he said that it's it is coming out to the general public, but I have a copy and it's great.

Oh, I'd love to get an interview with him. Yeah, I'll let you know. Oh, yeah, definitely. And

people signal Fletcher Proudy, we have that Fletcher Proudy movie by, what's this guy's an

interview with Chris? What's his name? The guy. He built last movie that got made. Yeah, he's

what the, because he's with your friend to, to your junior. Yeah, I can't. I can't remember

his name either, but we had him on the show. Great guest. And I mean, let us play the movie in our

Patreon. So you can get it there. Patreon. Oh, that's cool. Oh, that's some film too. Have you seen it?

Yeah. Oh, great. Yeah, it was really good. Yeah, great. Fletcher was, Fletcher was a fascinating guy.

You know, I was, Dave and I were talking about how a biotic oil, about how oil was not a fossil fuel.

Yeah. And he reminded me that Fletcher had said that. And I said, well, yeah, and then I went back

and looking there, it's sure enough. Fletcher said the thing you that in the 50s. Yeah, that was

always hard. You know, a dinosaur turns into oil. Yeah, I move came up with that.

Yeah, there's a book called the deep hot biosphere. If anyone gets interested in that, the Russians

were the ones who were working on the, the, the, the abiotic oil. Yeah. Anyway, we've been talking to Joe

Green. We've been talking about Jesse Jackson and Dr. Martin Luther King, the new, the book out there

right now to pick up this tinfoil hat, not included. And check out our previous interviews with Joe

Green. Oh, these great stuff. What do you want to leave this one? I don't know. I'm, I'm, I'm,

I'm working on getting better and hopefully my voice will come back. No, you sound great. You sound great.

Thanks. This was fun. Yeah. Joe Green, thank you so much. All right. Take it easy.

You're too man. Good night. Good night.

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