John Hyland: Why Most Creators Will Never Monetize | DSH #1737

I think the big thing, it's how do you build authority and compounding IP?

Yeah, right? Because, you know, if you're, you know, sitting here and you're thinking,

hey, you know, we have, I'm really good at this thing, but, but you go out there and all you care

about is views. Well, then you're getting attention for the wrong things, right? And so, I think

when you say, hey, this is an attention economy and, you know, everyone is trading, you know,

a place in someone's mind. Marketing has been that for a long time. How do we create memory

structures and have a place in someone's household and their life and become a mainstay? So, you know,

be a part of this for a long time. And yeah, I think that, you know, monetizing is a big deal

because it is a long-term game. And I think even with social media and our attention spans,

everyone's about Instagram gratification. Yeah.

Okay, guys, we are in Salt Lake. We got John Highland here. He's done a lot of

stuff and we're going to dive into it today. I think she's coming on, Matt.

Thanks, Sean. Thanks, Sean. Yeah, you've been busy. I know you're working with a lot of

influential people these days. Yeah, it's trying. Over 200, you mentioned me over 200 people

you're working with at the moment. Yeah, well, we have, we have multiple, you know, kind of aspects

of what we do, but we have a talent management side of what we do. And, you know, there's 200

influencers and athletes there. Yeah, so we managing them like talent and strategizing on media and

kind of how to grow their ecosystems. And then we have a bunch of, on the agency side,

have a bunch of clients. Yeah, I mean, it's smart. I was watching Hormosi's, a bit of Hormosi's

launch and he was saying how attention is a new currency. So to group all these people together

and have all these eyeballs is smart, right? Well, yeah, yeah. And, you know, the network effect

in media and being able to, you know, share stuff, you know, we were talking about, you know,

your mechanisms and how you built your audience. And it's extremely important. Yeah.

You know, obviously the messaging and we can get into, you know, that stuff, but the messaging

has to be tight. The value offer has to be there. But, but, you know, getting people to rally

around this and spread message is essential to growth. Yeah. It's an interesting not to crack,

because a lot of people have followers and some people can get views, but monetizing is the tough

part for a lot of people. Yeah, very much so. Well, because it's built, typically it's built on

a house of cards. Yeah, it's built on drama. It's built off clickbaits, built off short form content.

Yeah. And, and I think, I think the big thing, it's how do you build authority in compounding

IP? Yeah. Right? Because, you know, if, if you're, you know, sitting here and you're thinking,

hey, you know, we have, you know, I have this, I'm really good at this thing. But, but you go out

there and all you care about is views. Well, then you're getting attention for the wrong things.

Right. And so, you know, I think, I think, I think when you say, hey, this is an attention

economy and, and, you know, everyone is trading, you know, a place in someone's mind.

Marketing has been that for a long time. How do we create memory structures and have a place

in someone's household and their life and, and become a mainstay. So, you know, be a part of this

for a long time. And, yeah, I think, I think that, you know, monetizing it is, is a, is a big deal

because it is a long term game. And I think even with social media and our attention spans,

everyone's about instant gratification. Yep. That when we saw all the health stuff, you know,

pop up, you know, it's like the wait watchers and the, and the, this and the, the,

Atkins diet. And it's like, how can I take a pill and get skinny? We see it right now with GLP

once, right? Well, when the healthy way to go about doing anything right is long sustained compounding

growth. It's the same thing with monetizing a community and attention. Yep. But you have to be

adding like real value, and solving real problems. And, and, um, and building a framework around

that that is duplicatable that people can, you know, join in on that journey. I agree. It's a long

game, man. Look at Hormuzzi. He did three books before he made an offer. Yeah. Three books. And he

did a big webinar last year. It didn't sell anything. People were roasting him. And now he did

$105 million in a day. Yeah. Well, you know, uh, the OG in the game, right? Gary Vee on this whole

thing was, you know, his whole, one of the best books, you know, jab, jab, jab, right hook,

you know, you know, he, the longer you can jab, the more you write hook is going to land. And he

did the perfect long tail journey to that. Yeah. Right. How much value can I add where there's

a symphony and a synchronicity between, you know, what you stand for and the inevitable offer

you're going to make. You talked about Hormuzzi and we talked about it a little earlier. I mean,

that might have been, it's one of, if not the best masterclass on how to monetize a community.

He talked to a bunch of people that were already engaged. They have a huge list on, you know,

business owners that are doing a certain amount of revenue. And they built this thing with,

you know, acquisition for a long time. And he's built a ton of authority. And, and he basically

mixed an offer with how can a bunch of entrepreneurs feel like they're giving back and contributing

to something larger than himself, which is the spiritual need we have. And so you weren't just

giving him money. You were donating 200 books to an entrepreneur that needs it. And it was like,

oh, I want to do that. I want to help. And so, you know, why it was cloaked and it was real value.

Why it was cloaked in this amazing, you know, buy 200 books for people because every entrepreneur

needs to know this stuff because we have, you know, a duty to do this. And this is our mission to,

you know, what you were telling me, $105 million a day. He's broke the world record for most books sold

to. He beat Harry Potter in one day. Yeah. And that, that, it's going to be studied. It's fresh.

Just happened what three, four days ago. That's going to be studied. Yeah, he got a Guinness for it.

It's going to go down in history. Well, yeah, they interrupted the middle of the stream, right?

I think Layla came in and said, we have a plaque for you. But I mean, you know, there's, there's,

but going back, the more value you can add, the more that your authority can compound,

and you truly care in our authentic, which he has been. He's been giving the long form value

to people for years. And, and, you know, his old saying used to be, I have nothing to sell you.

And that was true at the time. But, but he had, he had a long-term road map that he, he stuck to,

and this is a marathon, and he did it massively. Yeah, he's playing chess out here. Oh, for

you, chess. Yeah. That was my approach with the pod. I lost a lot of money at first, but I knew I

had to provide as much value as can at first. You know, I had to grow the audience. I had to have

on really smart people give value to the audience before I ever sold something. Mm-hmm. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Yeah. A lot of people want to sell day one. It doesn't work. Never works. Never works.

No, you have to be known, and you have to, you know, develop trust. When you have trust,

you can, you can, you can cash in on those karma deposits. Yeah. But then it feels authentic,

and it's part of the ecosystem. It's, it's a, I can't about you. We are on this journey together,

and let me help you. You're not speaking to them. You're guiding them. Yeah. And it's, it's important.

All the fantastic trust is, is everything to me these days. Yeah. If you don't have that,

I can't work with you. You can't be friends with you. Like it's really important. Well, especially,

you said you live in LA for a little bit. You know, I moved from Florida to New York and then to LA.

And the one thing I noticed in LA, especially when you're in the entertainment and marketing business,

everybody has a, you know, a job doing, I don't know, waiting or something all wanting to have

to come up, but it was all transactional. I've never found a place that's more transactional

in terms of relationships in that. Mm-hmm. And it makes you yearn for, you know, I just want people

that I can trust. Yeah. And that are authentic and organic and that you can build relationships.

And I think related back to content, we can do that with your audience. It's exponential in terms

of the growth and success you can have. I definitely think that's an LA thing. I think it's a lot

of major cities now too. I don't think it's just LA anymore, unfortunately. Yeah. Well, I mean,

it's kind of the world, right? In general, but yeah, yeah. It's, it's, especially with social media.

I was happy that this guy was talking to me. He said, he said, it was funny because you'd have,

like, the best looking girl in some small town, marry her, like, high school sweetheart.

And with the rise of social media, now that girl is accessible to the world. Right.

Andrew Tate talks about this. And it's, you know, social media and the internet has opened up

the world to things and open up the minds and access to things. And I think that that's part

of the foundational reason why, you know, things are inauthentic and things are, you know,

vanity driven likes views this because for a long time, that's where currency has kind of

lived. Yeah. Yeah. And because of social media, there is pretty much a new celebrity now. I feel like

the celebrities we grew up with with A-list actors and music artists is no longer the celebrity

that people think of. Yeah. Well, it's interesting, right. Like Jordan, Limpix, Chicago Bulls,

Reedy's Box. Right. Yet somebody who a lot of people and a lot of eyeballs and attention on,

but it was admiration. Kind of a shallow, a shallow connection. But there were also very,

very limited media channels. So when you had a commercial, you needed to have somebody, you know,

a celebrity in that to drive attention around a billboard or on a Weedy's Box. When they opened it

up, you know, and the network's no longer controlled the media airwaves, you know, you had,

you had the social platforms being able to, you know, give anybody with a camera. Now it's

easier never to create content and broadcast a voice in a platform. Yeah, especially around

more niche communities, I think around it and building that tribe type thing around a niche

community is very, very powerful. They are the new celebrities because, hey, eyeballs,

which we can compare the biggest celebrities, movie actors or athletes and all this, they just

have a lot of eyeballs on them all the time watching them play or do their art. And now we have,

you know, an abundance of that stuff in our face every day with some people doing it really well

and have built much larger followings than any celebrity could. Yep. Right? Like, you know,

some of these like the rock and then these people with what 400 million Instagram followers. Crazy.

That's wild. The amount of reach and the amount of impact and influence they have with posting

something where, you know, even what max on a Super Bowl is 110 million or something like that

or in the 100 million something. So it's wild, you know, what social media has been able to

empower. Yeah, you're starting to see these guys launch their own companies and some of them

are turning into eight and nine-figure brands very quickly. What do you prime did? What, I think

they're at 10 billion now? Prime, that is your drink? Well, you know, I mean, just in terms of

in terms of value, yeah. Wow. Yeah, I know Mr. Beast is killing it. Yeah, I think his name's

Trayhan. Yeah, it's like these sour gummies strips. It's worth like over eight figures already.

Well, the rock with Taramana was the last was the fastest growing to keep beverage brand ever

created. Did he sell that one? I don't I don't think so. I haven't heard that. Okay. Maybe

he did. I know McGregor sold his. Yeah, he sold proper. I know that Clooney sold

Casamigos. Casamigos. But, but you know, they he was the fastest to sell 200,000 cases

by a landslide. Wow. Or some some what the benchmark is for success in their spirit space

he did it faster than anybody. He became the fastest billion dollar brand in the spirit space.

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Yeah, I mean, we talked about alignment too because the product has to match the brand

because a lot of celebrities try to launch something and it flops too.

Well, you know, it was funny. We deal with this a lot on the talent management side. You know,

Rock had been drinking tequila forever. It's a natural progression of what he does.

And he's like, hey, cheers and he's been doing that forever.

You know, we have a lot of influencers that come to us and they're like, hey, you know,

that we manage. It's like, hey, I want to get a brand deal. I want to do a Nike shoe campaign.

I want to get involved with some brand. And then you go back and look at their content.

You're like, every single thing you're doing is either shoelace or wearing adidas.

And it's like, how can, you know, it has to be authentic to your brand.

If you want to work with somebody, how do you build that authenticity where it's an easy

integration? And I think all the big ones you're seeing and the ones that are growing,

it's an easy integration into that. And then, so one of our influencers wanted to do a Nike

campaign. And so we made it, you know, a point strategized, how do we put Nike in every single

YouTube video? And they have a big following, lo and behold, within like 60 or 90 days,

they got a Nike deal. Wow. And not like a Nike deal deal. But they're working with Nike,

getting paid to, you know, and getting, you know, a stipend to, you know, buy Nike gear. And

and it has to be intentional. It has to be authentic. And it has to fit. I think that's why

influencer in the, you know, attention economy has also gotten a bad rap because, you know, for a

long time, you know, you could grow followers very quick. Reach was easy. And, and, you know,

you could, you just have an influencer marketing company come to you and say, hey,

want to promote this product? They're like, how much you pay it? They're like, I don't know,

five grand. He'd be like, okay. And it wouldn't fit. It wouldn't make sense. And it was the wild

west for, you know, years. And, but, but there's no ROI on that. And, and that's why building, you

know, authority and doing it the proper way long term is, is I believe the only way to do it.

And that's what we focus on when we work with people. One of your clients was liver king. We

got to bring him up after the documentary came out a couple of months ago. I actually didn't

watch it yet, but I saw it all over social media. What did you think of the feedback from that

documentary? Um, it was, it was wild. Um, you know, I, I had a, I had a part in that. I mean,

obviously, art. So when he came to 1DS, he had zero following. Wow.

And have any social media presence. And, um, but he had a mission and he, and he wanted to achieve

something. And, uh, he came to us, someone asked him, hey, who's the best social media company?

Who should we work with? They recommended 1DS. And, and so he came to us and we built his entire

brand, his story, everything from scratch and, and, and launched him. But, you know, obviously,

his rise to fame and then the controversy and then, you know, it was wild. Yeah. And no one knew

the backstory they see what they see on, on, um, on social media. And it was, it was interesting.

We worked with him for two, two and a half years straight from zero to, you know, where he's at.

And then when the controversy came out, we started, you know, party ways. But watching it,

I didn't think I was going to have a big enough, like a, a big narrative scene in this thing.

But, but they were saying, hey, it's very, very important. We tell like, how did he just come

about? But it blitzes the scene. And, um, but I think it showed it pulled back a lot of layers.

I think it was good for him. Controversial in ways, but, but it was wild. It was top 10 on Netflix

for a month or so. I think it was number one for the, yeah, yeah. They went it launched and,

and it's been wild. That's crazy. So you were in that? Yeah. I narrate like a huge part of the

crap. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. You got to see it. It's, it's a pretty wild doc. Um,

it's entertaining. It's very well done. It's done by this team out of the UK. Okay.

Full wall 73. They're really good. Um, Joe did a great job directing and, uh, and yeah, it got,

I don't know if it was supposed to be a part of the untold series, but Netflix has a deal with his,

their production, their production company. And when they saw the story, they're like, it has to

be part of the untold franchise, which is a bunch of awesome stories on Netflix. It's almost like

the 30 for 30 for 30. I got to check it out. I missed 30 for 30. So those were. Oh, brother.

Popped back into the, the you Christian Latener. Christian Latener. Yeah. That's a legendary one.

They don't make documentaries like that anymore. No, they don't. 30 for 30 was, was a,

was a rare breed. That was a, that was interesting. Um, but yeah, so it did a great job. And, and,

you know, it's, it's, um, it's been interesting. It kind of shows, it shows the dynamic of, you know,

how things can go really, really well. Yeah. With building a personal brand and getting

attention to somebody who's never had it, right? Like, this instant overnight, quote, unquote,

like fame to it going really bad, really quick. Did you see it and get to him over time,

get to his head, the fame and the eyeballs? Um, I think so. I mean, I think, if, if anybody

goes back on Libert King's page and looks at like the first post, you can see how uncomfortable

he was on camera. Right. But he's a very smart guy. Um, and he studied and practiced and got

really good, really quick. Um, and he was pretty authentic with this message, right? Like,

I think when you come from a place of authenticity, it's easy to deliver a message, right? You're

not having to make up or conjure anything. So a lot of what he was saying was true. We just

packaged it up in a really snackable and digestible way for socials. And, um, but, but I think

over time, yeah, I mean, when you're out in the street, you have a bunch of people bombarding

here. We couldn't go anywhere. We have bodyguards everywhere. I had to hire a team and holy crap.

You know, we had, we had, we were traveling. We were going to UFC. I mean, we walked into the

PFL. You've been to PFL match professional fight league. It's, uh, it's, um, they have like

a tournament style. It's miss martial arts, but it's more tournament style. Um, anyway, we go

into PFL. We get invited. We know the, you know, CEO of that, of that company and, and, um,

the whole place is channing liver king in New York City and New York and square garden. That's

not. And one of their, I forgot what venues right next to it. There's like 7,000 people in there.

All channing liver king when you walked in. I mean, that, it was just, it's wild, right?

Like, and so I imagine as someone like him who he shares in the doc that grew up with some

insecurities and had some, you know, you know, issues with his, you know, own mental health.

And, and then you hit this thing where, you know, you're beloved everywhere and people looking

up to you, or at least giving you attention, whether it's good or bad, it'll mess with anybody

that's not grounded and has a really good team around them to keep them grounded. 100%.

Yeah, especially in your 40s, right? Like when it's, it's tough. It definitely is tough.

It's something I have to stay cognizant of all the time, honestly. You know, when I have on

a big guest and then more and more people are recognizing me, I'm like, I, I need to stay grounded.

Yeah. Yeah. That's seen you go destroy a lot of people too.

Well, I mean, do we're all just people? And all of us just, some of us have a platform and,

you know, all of us are interesting in our own ways and, and, and, you know, the more grounded we

can stay. Definitely, as you said. Yeah, it's, it's important. Yeah, I just try not to react

emotionally. That's where I see people get it's absolutely slaughtered.

Well, because it has a lot more and has a lot more, there's, there's more, what's the word?

It's funny to me. There's more at stake. No, what is it? There's, there's more to risk and there's

more to lose when you have a big following, right? Because, you know, you're, you're, you're sitting

here and you could say something out into the abyss on X or write something stupid and two people

see it. Every single move you make when you're under the lens is scrutinized. I mean, we were just

staying at a hotel in, in, in West Hollywood, from my birthday this weekend. We're at Chateau Marmont

and we're sitting out of the pool and there's a bunch of celebrities there, Kanye's on our floor

and like, there's people everywhere. And, um, but they have drones flying over the pool there.

Oh, sorry, people like, and that they get, they get shot down or whatever they do. I don't know

what their, their defense mechanism is there at the hotel. But like, that's like the last sanctuary

place in Hollywood for like, celebrities to go and feel safe. Wow. And, and, but we're sitting

at the pool and there's three or four drones above our head just trying to get in real quick and

look around and then leave. And, um, and yeah, so every single move you make with rising attention

gets scrutinized. That's as liver king was building and building and building more people were looking

into his history and his background and more people were curious and googling things. And, you know,

you can search what people Google when you have a, you know, into the tens of thousands of

Google searches into somebody. Um, people are going to create concerts to satisfy that search.

Yep. And, and, and people started digging deep into, you know, what he was about, what he was

doing. And, you know, he got exposed. Yeah, Greg was the first one to call him out. All right,

Greg, do shut. Yeah, that there was, there was a few, but yeah, Greg, he, he talked about it

because it was all this natty or not thing. And that's what they do with a lot of fitness influencers.

Um, Greg's been on the show. Um, I mean, I like him, you know, natty or not, it's pretty funny to

me. I think if liver king just, uh, I think how he handled this, why he got canceled, honestly.

You know, I mean, yeah, I don't, I don't think it was the fact he wasn't natural.

Well, I think there's, there's, there's this thing of having a controversy. There's this thing

ongoing. I mean, we got him on impulsive. Yeah. Um, uh, what are some other ones? Big ones, uh,

flavor, ice coffee, um, uh, what are some other, we got him on all these big podcasts. Um,

the guys in, uh, what's the H2 or whatever we got H3H3. Uh, yeah, H3, um, we got him on, uh, he was on,

um, the comedian. Oh, Andrew Schultz. He was on Andrew Schultz,

Flagrim, but we, we first got, that was a apology video on Flagrim. So that was the first podcast,

a big guy from Tampa. Um, is that Shane Gillis? No,

Gabriel Iglesias. No, no, no, big guy from Tampa. Uh, he's, he's partners with, um,

gosh, my memory is lighting me right now. Um, oh, burning shop. Oh,

Birk, Birk Christ. Oh, Birk. Yeah, Birk, Birk. Um, so we got him on Birk. He was everywhere. I mean,

we went on all types of podcasts. Yeah. And all of them asked him, was he an adi or not? Every single one.

And he said, no, and not only no, he like joked about it. Oh, really?

And did it. Oh, oh, that's why it was such a big deal. Uh-huh. It wasn't just about this thing that

just hasn't been discussed. It was this thing that, you know, he defended fever, like feverishly.

And it was like, hey, no, and then making fun of himself and poking fun at it. I mean,

we created, if you go back and liver king, you can see like, hey, liver king. And you have,

like, he's sitting across from himself and he puts a doc. He goes, your tests are in. And he's

in a doctor's row, but it's like liver king, liver king. And he's like, your, your blood

results are in. I think it's, you know, we have to come clean. You're 100% primal. And then we

turn it into this parody. And then another one where he's like, we did this thing where he had,

you know, needles in bone marrow and liver on screen poking fun at that. He's like, no, this is

my steroid. It's never in bone marrow. I mean, so it wasn't even just about lying. It

would be like tripling down on, on, on that. And I think there's a line you don't cross. Yeah.

I think there's a deflection. There's a deflecting thing that I don't want it to, to, you know,

cloud the message. And then there's a, another side of it where it's like, you're going to blatantly

go on all these major platforms and then say that. And then how do you, you, there's no coming back.

Right. There's no coming. It's on the internet forever at that point. Yeah. There's no coming back.

Did you ever eat the raw bowl of testicles? I did. But not with him. I, we had another client,

Paul Saladino. Oh, I know, Paul. Yeah. Paul Carnivore MD and he's crushing it. Yeah. We,

we, we helped build his brand in the early days. Nice. And we're in him. He sells the beef liver,

right? The tablets. Uh, yeah. Heart and soil. Yeah. And he's, I think he has like a Carnivore

crisp out, like a state crisp out now and stuff. Um, he's doing, he's a good guy. Um, but we,

we started working with him and, and yeah, I have my first testicle with him in Costa Rica.

It was surprisingly not bad. It wasn't his bad. Have you ever had one? No, or any, like, one.

Raw organs I've had, um, in a pill format, but not like raw. Yeah. Lever's tough. Um,

I've had it all now. A brain, trachea, kidney, liver, um, heart, heart is actually good.

Heart is about as close to like a really lean steak as you can get. Okay. Um, but, but

testicle, what'd you get past the thing? It almost tastes like, like an oyster, almost like

a, like a, like a shellfish in a way. It's not that bad. Okay. It's not that bad. Um,

you got to get high quality stuff. Yeah. Well, you source a good quality testicle. That's a good

question. Uh, I don't know. There's, there's a bunch of regenerative good farms. I know,

I know Lever King and gets a lot of this stuff from White Oak and some of these regenerative

pastures that are good, but you know, Paul salad, you know, down to Costa Rica, he moved to another

area, but there's just like this organic, you know, grass fed ranch that was like pretty. I don't

want primals the right word, but like just old school. Yeah, just laid on the table. Yeah,

all bunch of stuff, but yeah, you get all his meat and his organs from there and they're fresh

and amazing. Okay. And so yeah, I got to, that was my first, that was my first testicle,

and then from there, I ate everything. Um, I was one of the last on the team to try it.

Oh, is it like a requirement if you're on the team? Kind of, yeah, kind of, you know,

Lever King's requirement was that you had to do the barbarian. What's that? Uh, it's a crazy

workout. He has that where you have to, it's, it's a weighted backpack, weighted ankle weights,

dumbbells in the hand and a sled. Oh, I saw Santa Cruz just do that. Yeah, Santa Cruz did it.

A bunch of people have done it. Santa Cruz crushed it actually. Really? Yeah. Um, it's, it's,

it's, everybody says that does this the hardest thing I've ever done in their life.

Usually to take somewhere between three and six hours. Holy crap. Yeah, and then go a mile.

So carrying like twice your body weight on in your hands and on your back and on your feet.

Well, yeah, backpack, yeah, backpack, kettlebells, ankle weights, sled, and, um,

any as a super barbarian, but a big thing to be on the team like in his team is you have to do

the barbarian within a certain amount of time. And you did it? No, I did not. No, no, no, no,

we were kind of, we were on the outskirts. We were like the agency. So, but, but there are some

people on our team that, that did it. Um, but yeah, uh, no, no initiation like that. But I mean,

yeah, whenever one's passing around, Lever and testicles and stuff, he would like try it.

Our whole team was actually chowing down on it. Because we were spending a lot of time with it.

We go there and shoot for, you know, five days in a time and travel all over the world with him.

And it was really bringing, they were like, you know, taking coolers of balls. Yeah, that's impressive.

Yeah, he definitely changed the game, especially for the health influencer space. Like he was

one of the first to really blow up. I feel like in that space. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean,

it was geniusly architected, right? Like when we went out on Pulsive,

we were like, we were launching this, uh, this protein drink or protein powder that had all

of these organs in it. And so it's really easy when you put a platter of organs and say try

one of these to Logan and Mike and all these guys. And then you say, all right, we'll try this

shake. Same things are in that, or isn't that it's really good for you though. It's hard to

stomach these, but you could drink this. Same thing with the pill, you know, raw liver's tough.

But you can do raw liver pills easy. And so it was, uh, it was a, it was a well,

well-architected message in terms of the ease of the liver is one of the most nutrient-instance

things on the, in the planet you could eat. And the organs are pretty nutrient-dense.

Nose-detail eating is, you know, consider very nutrient-dense. And then, no, you don't need to do

that. Here's it in a capsule that you can do quite easily. And so it was, it was easy for that.

And then, you think big social media influencers blow up, crazy physique, and blood, as he calls,

a blood-boiling workout. It had the rest of pee for everything. You know, we have the same

called break shift invite that we explained in Authority OS. And, you know, you need to break

via pattern interrupts and be contraining. There's a whole bunch of different hook-harket types,

but you got to, you got to break what people are thinking what the old game is. And then,

you know, shift their perspective. So his break was, you know, really polarizing blood-boiling

workouts and eating crazy things, saying we're eating shit and modern men a week, right? And,

you know, the modern world has taken out all of these amazing ancestral things. How do we put

them back in? It shifted by showing in this new framework. And then he would invite to enjoying

the tribe. And so this was this well-architected strategy that we had put together for this.

And when you do these things right, just like her mosey has done with his recent thing, when you do

these things right over a long period of time, influence, and authority exponentially grows.

Yeah. And then you have something that's compounding. So when he's, you know, the first time we actually

put a pill on a table and said, by this was when he's traveling, it didn't have access to liver.

Mm-hmm, clover. Because it's like, hey, if you have the real thing, you want to do the real thing.

But if you don't, here. Yeah. 200 grand at like a couple hours. Wow. But do you know what I mean?

Like, like, the biggest sales day they had up to that point. Yeah. Traveling, doing that.

It's a huge deal. Like, it's a huge deal. And, but, but trust is built. He's, he's completely

authentic. And he's just sharing what he does with the world and, and giving a lens in and, and then

packaging it up in a, in a really snackable, concise, digestible way and, and it worked. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Building that brand is everything because a lot of people can blow up, but can they

maintain the brand? Like, you saw that ash and hog guy with the water. Major blew up, but I don't

know if he's been able to monetize it yet. Bobby Altoff, do you remember her? Mm-hmm. She just

announced the closing closing of her podcast. Why? She just wasn't getting views. She fell off,

I guess, this is what they say. Yeah. Same with the hawk, too, a girl. You know, she got involved

with that crypto scan and then kind of fucked up her reputation. So you gotta take a serious, man.

Well, you get in the sink called the velocity vortex, right? We're, you know, we, we identify these

invisible enemies, right? That people are dealing with them. And one of them is velocity vortex.

And that means that, you know, speed and the vanity metrics, but the speed and putting content

out in this, this ever-flowing thing is the way. And that's what Gary Vee used to push a lot.

Yeah. Like, it was volume, volume, volume, volume. When the creator economy needed more content.

But I think now that the world, that was the old creative economy, which he was right. I

still think he's right, but it's lacking what now is like, how do you turn from being a content

creator to a content operator? Right. And how do you turn and build a system around this stuff

that can compound value that's strategic? And that speaks to something that you're an authority

on and builds IP and not just like, hey, you know, you see with Ash and Hall, ASMR, ticked all the

boxes. He's ripped and looks good. And that helps all the time, doing it with a shirt off.

And, and, you know, signs of affluence, right? And he's doing it in this place. He has like this,

you know, whatever made or whatever serving him things. Yeah. And then, you know,

getting into a G wagon or his Rolls Royce or whatever he's getting into is polarizing.

From what I know, he has a, you know, a, you know, fitness thing. But, you know, just doing things

to get views is, there's no value. Yeah. How are you going to turn that into real business value

that you can compound and grow over time? Right. And IP, you can own, which you've done here with

digital social. Yeah. And I think it's heading towards streaming these days. So I'm looking into

that. But streamers are getting the most engagement I've ever seen or now live streaming. Yeah.

Why do you think that is? I think when you really build a bond with the audience, rather than a

short form podcast clip of 30 seconds, they don't actually know you. But if you're streaming for six to

eight hours a day, it's like an actual relationship. These fans feel like they have with the talent.

Well, you know, it's interesting. There's a guy, there's a fitness influencer. I forgot his name,

big white guy. Bradley Martin. No, yeah. Not Bradley. But he was just vlogging his workout day. He

was doing like two hour vlogs and posting him every day or a very really long form. He was just a

normal dude. It had no editing. And he's just like taking a long journey of in his car and going

to the gym and working out his post workout meal. And, and, and he got a lot of attention. And like,

it went completely against what mainstream. This is during the homozy, really loud bouncing captions,

changing the cutting, the lever two seconds, some of which still works for getting attention and,

you know, satisfying our ever growing ADHD memes, right? But, but, but, you know, people right now

are being so disconnected digitally that having a connection in community and feeling a part of

something is really big. I can land on your page and watch your amazing clips of your people. But

if I want to go deep, we call those little short form things sparklers, right? Like, what is

the sparkler that's going to get attention? You wave it, but the real thing is that want to lead

them to the bonfire. And so, and the bonfire is your long form podcast episodes, which then lead

into a larger thing, which is, you know, maybe it's a streaming or it's event. So this, this thing

where, hey, I want to get your attention here and add a little bit of value or get you curious.

Come here for this, come sit around the bonfire and, and, and then, you know, go from there and,

and, you know, streaming, you see all these big guys streaming and that's what they're doing.

They're building connection with their audience in a major way. And it's, it's, it's, it's very

valuable. They're getting the biggest deals right now too. Well, it's funny. You sit around and,

like, if I wanted to go, I want to compare this back to when I was growing up, like they had

Zelda playing guides. How do you? I'm 28. Yeah. So I heard a Zelda. I never played it. But,

but, you know, like, you just have to go to, like, GameStop and buy like a playing guide if you

wanted to learn, like, how to get through Super Mario or something like that. You know, there was

it, like, you know, a, a, a YouTube channel that you could go say, Hey, my, my kids like Luigi

Mansion. Right. And there's like this really awesome page of this really cool guy. And he walks

through the whole Nintendo Switch Luigi Mansion thing. We don't, we didn't have that. It was

like a magazine. Now it's like, Hey, you actually can go watch somebody play Fortnite if you want

to learn or go play these streaming games. And I think that's where the streaming influencer. I

think it came from the gaming. Yeah, yeah, gaming. And because you could sit there and not only

you were already interested in the game. And then their personality was just icing on the cake.

Right. Because then you're like, Oh, shit. Like, Oh, this ninja guy is really polarizing.

Oh, and then you have all these awesome gamers. And then, and then it's almost like, wow,

these are almost like celebrities in their own little right within their community. But, but it's

like, I'm already interested in watching this content. And now you add a personality layer on it.

It's awesome. And now it's obviously grown in what we're talking 10 years of streaming now.

Or however long, you know, kind of the Twitch has been popular in the gaming community. It's

amazing. And it's a natural progression of content and feeling apart of something. It is not

to now streamers are the modern celebrities. They got our music artist hanging them up movies

to promote their movies are the actors are going on streamers like Twitch streams to promote the

movie. Yeah, it's not. Yeah. See, jujus in this juster, right? Like, he's a big gamer streamer.

And I just found out about him game in the stream. And I obviously picked him up in fantasy.

Well, when I found out about it, I think I'm like, wait a second. I found out you started streaming.

And you're not in your Pittsburgh stealer one of the seabird days anymore. But man, like,

there's a lot of value to be compounded the brands, man. Like, and, and people being able to expand

the ecosystem and build real value around these things. And it's easy to do. Yeah, you know,

flip on a camera and talk about something that you love doing. It feels like the most authentic

bigger content ever. I think that's why it's doing well too. There's no editing. Yeah, you

might be a lower third stinger on it. Or if you have a bigger production, but outside of that,

it's just raw authentic. You're just yourself. Yeah, there's this guy named Speed. I'm sure you've

heard of him. He could fill out a stadium almost any major country right now. That's how popular he

is. It's wild. Yeah, it's nuts. Like, Ronaldo's common thing on his social media posts. Yeah,

and you know, it's, it's interesting. I think it's, it's, it's really, really powerful. And it's

impactful. I also think that there was this, I'm just thinking about this now. And I want to,

I want to flush this out with you because this is very interesting. When a celebrity would become

a go-to movie and do stuff when it was a very curated and polished and manicured PR and,

and kind of media, you know, campaign around a film or something like that or even sports.

These people got media training. They were looked at too as celebrities and they had a

responsibility to be something and be looked up at. They had, they had a sports team that they

were responsible for. They had responsibilities to it in a contract, right? And these people

had influence. And that's why you see hockey is the worst at this. Like, like, never watch a hockey

interview with a player after. Really? Well, no, because they say the same thing. They're completely

PC. They never go off script. It's, it's, it's amazing. But they're like, you're not getting any

juicy details from them. You know, you're not. But, but it's very manicured. Now you have

these people that have these extraordinarily large audiences that don't know what to do with them

from a media standpoint. That's like a lubricant. Yeah. You end up getting in hot water really

quick if it's not done right. I can see the right. And it's like, it's like, you have, you have

this thing that is so it's rarefied air to build a following like speed has, rarefied air.

You have a responsibility. You can do a lot of good with that. You can also do a lot of bad. Yeah.

I think 90% of the people out there were following to doing the right thing.

But, but I think, I think that, you know, we're missing that. Which I just, it dawned on me now.

We're missing that old school traditional media element of curating coaching and getting people

ready for this moment. You could post a video right now. I hot to a post a video. Go viral. Next

thing you know, you have a podcast in your, and then you have somebody influence you to push

crypto scam. And now you're in a lawsuit for 50 million. Yeah. It happened like that. Like where

was her team telling her, what do you do it? Like, you know, and I just think, I hope that,

I hope that these people with these rising followers, you've done an incredible job at it. And

that they really have the right people around them to maximize the impact they have. Yeah.

Because it's important. The team is everything. That's an interesting take on media training though.

So you actually think it's somewhat important. Well, yeah. You just said as you're, you know,

following grows, you have to stop reacting emotionally because it has like real consequences

at that point, right? And you have to, you have to be very calculated. And obviously,

want to be yourself, but you have to understand that whatever you say is going to get

thousands, millions, billions of impressions. And also clipped out of context too.

Clipped out of context. And that's even happened to me. And I'm nobody in terms of

influence and stuff from numbers. It happens to everybody. But yeah, I think, I think, you know,

understanding and really, you know, having the understanding the impact you can have if you have

a big following that you can do a lot of good and help a lot of people. Because he has a,

you know, big following for a reason, whether even if it's just entertainment, people need to

skip, you have to be pushing some business product or some coaching or some, you know, service

or anything like that. It's like, you know, people also need, I mean, Matt Reif is blowing up.

I just saw his clip that he was at Nashville and, you know, did the biggest show at Nashville's

ever had. Wow. And he was at 14, 15 years ago, 14 years old sitting and he had dang cook come up

on stage because dang cook was the biggest thing. And he just broke that record. And like,

entertainers are always going to be, I believe at the top of echelon of like celebrity.

Yeah. And even in the pod space comedy pods, I think number one or two category was.

Yeah. And well, I mean, look at Joe Rogan's impact. Joe Rogan's on what the biggest, I believe,

the biggest impactful sports programming there is. Yeah. All the big paper views. Joe is a real

personality and a real expert at mixed martial arts. And then you have, you know, and then,

and then he's on Fear Factor, which is one of the coolest shows ever eat cockroaches while

that show is nuts. Yeah. He did all the stuff with it. He's like, I'll do it. And so like,

you know, people he's entertaining is extremely curious. So you add this other thing on top of it.

But, you know, yeah, entertainers are definitely going to have the biggest, but but it's shallow

influence. And then you have the deep influence, the more like, you know, inch wide and the mild deep.

I call that like the mile wide and inch deep, the entertainment influence.

Because just because, you know, we have a ton of brands who work with probably at this point,

thousands of brands, every big brand in the athletes, your space, supplements, health, wellness,

everything that come to us. Not only, you know, hey, we're working with them for

the ages of time, but they also want to work with our influences and in the people we wrap. And

we've had some of the people with the biggest following on a roster, not move a single unit of

product, because everybody's there to watch them do some trick or entertain them and make them laugh,

not sell them a product. Yeah. And so, but then you have like the, you know, we call it inch wide

and the mile deep, the people that are like very niche, talk about one thing and have influence

in authority in that one thing and go deep on that one thing. And and they end up, it makes sense

that they're, you know, recommending a, I don't know, a workout track or food tracking out or

it aligns supplement or a food, a food delivery service or this entire vertical of, you know,

product integrations you can have. And it makes sense that, right? But yeah, it's an entertainer.

I could go off with it. No, it's, it's all interesting stuff. I actually agree with Gary V.

that followers don't matter anymore. And this is coming from someone that has 12 million followers.

I think it's all based off engagement now. Yeah. Like when I, when I'm looking for a guest,

I look at their comments. Yeah. I don't care about followers. No. Well, because the,

the platforms know this because just because you have followers doesn't mean they're going to push

people to your content. They have it down to a science so much now that they're only going to

promote what people want to see. One percent. Actually, I get more views from non followers

that followers on my social media. Yeah. And your trial reels and you're able to test it now.

And there's so many different things you can do with the space. But, but what you're,

you're talking about, there's those followers don't matter. Now, what it does give you is

some social credibility. Yeah. I could DM anyone and get a response. Yeah. Of course. And

and that's the original reason why Liverpool King wanted a million followers. He wanted to be able

to DM and get in touch with people. He wanted to team up with on supplement. Right. Companies.

And and so it does bring some social proof to it. But yeah, now it's, you can,

as long as the content content has to be good, it has to resonate. And that's what we talk about

signal over noise, right? And authority OS. You know, stuff with purpose, stuff that strategic

that that builds compounding IP, not just noise of like trend jacking. Like when Ash and

Hall did do what we were talking about earlier, he did his Saratoga water bucket, boom to sit down,

eat, you know, put on a stuff, go run and then ends with this cultivating him sprinting at 25

miles an hour. Um, you know, engage it. But everybody just started ripping that doing their

own parody off of it. Now somebody could have gone viral. Let's let's play that out. So somebody

with 10,000 views does a really good job and gets like say 100 million views on TikTok on this

thing and gets like 50,000 followers overnight. Maybe I'm just pulling something out there.

Like what do they do from there? What value were those views and those followers? There,

there's nothing. They came because they're like, Oh, this guy's funny. Or this, this is interesting.

And I press follow, they all fall off. Um, and then one hit wonder on social, you see it all the time.

Yeah, all the time. All the time. And no, it's like quality content that speaks, I'd rather have a

thousand engaged people that that want to, you know, are interested in what I'm interested in.

That I can have engaging conversations with and bring along this journey with me in a community

then have, you know, 10 million people that don't give a shit. Yep. You know, and it's like, because,

you know, a lot of our clients, a couple in Vegas, they have an M&A company and, you know,

he was justifying like, Hey, I want to work with one DS. It justifies if I can get one lead

in my business and what I do off of this in two years, you guys pay for yourself.

So he didn't care about views. He just wanted to get the content for the right person to resonate

in the right way. And so we're all about building signal and talking to all the like some time

dense stuff and that our goal is to make it, you know, engaging and try to get views on things and

make it more lighthearted and, and, you know, entertaining, but, you know, different goals.

You get caught in these vanity metrics to followers and stuff. The platforms don't prefer that nowadays.

Not at all. They used to and we were starting out, but not at all right now. Yeah. It's all about

engagement. Yeah. Well, dude, it's been awesome. Working people find you potentially become a

client of yours and learn more about everything you've got going on. Yeah. My Instagram,

Jay underscore HY agency one DS collective. We're in the middle of launching a, you know,

a book in a course right now because of the launch of liver king and about there's media stuff

in us getting popularity over, you know, and you're kind of culminating over the last 10 years.

We can't, we had to write our systems and methodologies into a book in a course that we could say,

hey, the more one demanding model because we can't work. We can't scale faster. And so that's

going to be coming out in the next month or so. And it's going to be really exciting. That's

going to be called authority OS. Nice. So that's, that's, that's what I'm really excited about right now.

But yeah, agency one DS collective and anything social media branding, very similar to what you do.

And I know we've been talking with your team and stuff. It's, yeah, we just love we do.

Awesome. Check them out guys. And I'll see you next time. Peace.

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