JSE, Bidvest release strong results and U.S.-Israel conflict with Iran disrupts global shipping

And now the money show with Stephen credit on 7.02 let's walk the

toll. The money show with Stephen Curtis is brought to you by Epsom corporate

and investment banking refined performances a measure of discipline. That's

how we're invested in your story. Epsom is a registered FSB. Good evening

nine minutes after six welcome to the program. I'm Stephen Curtis one of

those days in which I sort of feel the world has changed slightly since I last

spoke to you and I'm talking of course about the US attacks the

Israeli attacks on Iran Iran's response targeting several places in the

Middle East including Israel but also places like Qatar like UAE like Dubai

all of that and the impact that this is going to have on us eventually there's

no doubt in my mind that this is going to have an impact on us. We will talk

about oil we will talk about international markets US markets by the way seem

to be coming back quite strongly already we will be talking about shipping

in a few moments. I would like to ask you though in your business whatever it is

I mean you might be part of a restaurant chain that has a Middle East

operation like dashes there others I think famous brands has exposure there

to if I remember correctly Nando's must do so other places too if you're part of

a business if you have people if you have workers if you have relatives

in the Middle East at the moment what's your major concern and I'm not

asking you what are you worried about what's going to happen I'm asking you what's

your major concern from a sort of business point of view I feel free to let me

know what you think is going to happen in the end I'm afraid to say

and we've seen this before particularly with the US action in the Middle East

you don't get a democracy in one move life doesn't really work like that in

the only country in the world that I can see that's gone from oppression to

democracy in one move is actually South Africa and has stayed democratic

so many others have not done that and so I just have a horrible feeling that what

we're likely to see is a long period of instability in Iran and that will

affect the countries around it so the business that you're in what

concerns you the most might just be higher inflation higher oil prices

all of those things that are going to have an impact on us and I'm afraid

they might even take an interest rate cut off the table later in the year

next couple of months so all of those things definitely going to have an

impact looking for to your views on 072721702 we'll speak to the outgoing CEO of the JSE

Dr. Layla for re- and just a moment really stellar results and we'll sort of

explain why in just a moment Timothy Walker is at the ISS is an expert on

maritime security we'll talk to him about shipping and the straight of her

moors we're getting a sort of deeper understanding of what's happening and

what is going to happen on international markets over the next few days

John stopperds ahead of multi-acid income at 91

and I don't know if you have a view on this it may be you know something about the

sugar industry but RCL foods they're battling because of sugar imports

what I still don't understand and we're going to ask the ACO poor

crookshank just before 7 o'clock is why is it more expensive to produce sugar

here than it is in other places is it about the rain is it about the cost of

something else the cost I don't know of labor of machinery whatever it is why

is it more expensive to produce electricity here and sell it here than to

produce it somewhere else and ship it here looking forward to that

conversation oh double one double eight three oh seven oh two is the number oh two

one four four six oh five six seven and your views please on the situation

the Middle East how it's going to affect you on oh seven two seven oh two one seven oh two

family show with Stephen Kruders live on 92.7 and 106 FM streaming on the

primary de plus nap and DSTV channel 856 well the J3 reporting higher trading volumes over

the year to the end of December helping them to record profits their net profit aftertax

up nearly 17% return on equity up by 32% they've declared a special dividend as a result

Dr. Layla Furry is the CEO do I say outgoing CEO Layla good evening welcome to the program

and thank you for your time an incredible year for the JSE for the index and that's reflected in

your results you've had a very strong boost from what's happened over the last year the last 18

months perhaps yeah indeed hi Stephen and and we have certainly the JSE share prices indicated

the bull market that we've been in and we've also seen a tremendous surge in average daily

value traded so huge activity if we go back in history you see that the index market cap

and the value traded tent correlation we lost saw a run of a similar nature between sort of

2003 and 2006 and we've now seen a sort of consistent uplift over the last two years

and it is it is really within a supportive macro economic environment within South Africa so the

JSE is really pleased our shareholders I think are very pleased they've indicated that by

through the share price today we ended as the the top performing all share stock for the day

and I think that the I think the special dividend and the overall ordinary dividend was very

well received it was up 28% on prior year you're trading volumes during this period as you say so much

higher is it possible to know and I suppose there's so many different ways to calculate it is

they're a kind of average by which they've been higher I mean would they have been 20% higher

per day than the prior period for example absolutely we we calculate that daily our average

daily value traded is is up by 32% for last year and year today it's up by 34% in fact tomorrow

it'll be up by much more because today was a very big day as you can imagine so we watch those stats

daily and and and this is indicative of a lot more volatility with these enormous rotations

that you've seen in and out of resources through the the hyper volatile period that we've had last

year and also a very strong indication of what's happening with internationals now starting to

reenter the country so on you know on even year to date it's continued we are not the net foreign

inflows in the bond market on nearly double what we've seen year to date previously last year we were

24 billion 24.8 billion net inflows and this year we 52 billion even in the market in the equity

market we've seen something similar we're holdings by internationals have gone up quite

substantially I think one of the things that's driving this is also South Africa's art performing

relative to most other emerging markets and what we've seen over the last year is that are

waiting in the footsie emerging market index has gone up to by from 3.16% to 4.29% now the

moment you get closer to a 5% waiting in the index you really start to matter so I I'm feeling

pretty positive and I think investors globally are are very much more risk on on South Africa

all of the macro factors that we all know the status-grade list and upgrading to the you know

upgrading the sovereign rating and and the you know NPPS 3% focus for inflation was

all picking and it has was really well received so it's it's ultimately up in the future I think

you know the work that's happening with the SOE the fact that ESCOM is it's now turning a profit

the fiscal credibility that the national treasury are starting to show are all great signs

and signs that the this bull run may have legged sure it's quite something to watch

one of one of the issues when you started at the JSC as the CEO was the concern some companies

were de-listing and there's been an important project that you've been a part of that you've led

to make listing on the JSC sort of simpler and easier and and I mean from where I said it seems

to have been quite successful you've had some big listings in the last year and they're more to come

this year absolutely and I you know we look at market success through a couple of lenses so

we are we are very much both a and a mechanism of what's going on in the market so the

mirror is market conditions that we can't control the mechanism is what can we change and we've

done we introduced sweeping listings transformation and the most recent of which went live we

a couple of months ago the simplification project cutting red tape etc and all of these things

are enabling but ultimately you need business confidence to drive listings now we've seen a

sweeping change on on on one level the market cap as the JSC when I took over was 12.8 trillion

it's now 24 trillion so almost a doubling of market cap and we have seen some very successful

listings last year boxer optasia was a very important signaling listing with a FinTech in Africa

the largest FinTech in in Mia choosing to list on the JSC they were looking at LEC and and

NASDAQ and they chose the JSC and then this year the promise of Tunnel Plus and and also Coca-Cola

Hellenic are very very important signals so we within green shoots we're starting to see some of

the regulatory transformation that we've introduced taking effect but it's early days and we cautiously

optimistic on that front Lela I don't know if we'll speak to each other again while you still CEO

of the JSC I think you've got another sort of 30 days left or so so if I may just thanks for

always being available for us on the money show no we don't always make it easy but thank you for

your time over the years on the money show we really appreciate it pleasure and thank you for

the responsible and interesting journalism I've really thoroughly enjoyed engaging with 702

and it's an important platform thank you dr. Lela for the outgoing CEO at the JSC 20 minutes after

six seven oh two seven oh two Steven is on the money show six to eight PM well amid all of the

uncertainty the concern about the U.S. and Israeli air strikes and Iran Iran's response I suppose

one of the most important questions for you and I is what will happen to international oil

shipments about 20% of the oil shipped around the world goes through the straits of Urumuz that oil

comes from Iran itself Iraq Saudi Arabia Kuwait the UAE and Qatar and that strait is particularly

easy for Iran or one of its proxies to block off Timothy Walker is a senior researcher on maritime

security at the Institute for Security study some of the good evening I would imagine very few

ships would feel safe going through the straits of Urumuz right now good evening Steven thank you

asked asking me on the show hello to everyone listening yes the jittery nature of shipping at the

moment is really there for everyone to see the the radio messages which have been broadcast in

particular from the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps really caused a tremendous amount of

consternation insurance markets particular war insurance which a lot of ships would rely on

as a as a guarantee for them that if they were to be affected in some way by a mine or a missile

would would cover their losses has been cancelled for many and the cost of now

potentially taking on new insurance is too much ships that much would much rather stay put

and wait to see what the outcome of the next round of strikes and potentially the Iranian

reaction is going to be so for the moment they don't start moving around Cape Town they wait

to see what happens another couple of days well some of the some of the shipping companies have

already started to indicate that they won't go through the Red Sea because of this incident I think

mask and CMA CGM to the the biggest star shipping companies in the world I've already indicated

that they're going to cancel some of their trans Suez routes the proximity for instance of the

Houthi to the Red Sea transit passage in the fact that they are aligned with Iran means that the

risk is seen as too high so so we're not looking yet at an increase in shipping around the Cape

but the Cape is always the maritime safety valve and the fallback option and I think the what's

going to really happen really matter is over the next 25 days whether we're going to see a prolonged

closure or not because the 25 days is the amount of time really that the oil-producing countries

who are stuck behind the straight-of-the-move have before they have to shut down their oil-producing

capacity filling up ships filling up spare capacity to take on that oil if that fills up they have

to shut down the storage and then you're really going to see an even bigger spike I can just see

all sorts of things would happen okay so various ways for Iran to to really sort of close the

straight-of-the-move I suppose they could sink a ship or several ships in one part of it their

various groups you spoke about the Houthis based in Yemen Iran could sponsor to just launch rocket

attacks or sort of pirate attacks is it possible for the U.S. and its allies to bring enough

military equipment to properly protect each and every ship that goes through there if this lasts

from a long time is that even a possibility at all it would seem unlikely I suppose it would

be it would be an enormous challenge the number of ships which would transit through the area even

on a peaceful time is huge and the amount of bostled up ships now waiting for some kind of safe

passage would be huge as well the the likely option if the Iranians do try and do try and close the

straight that could be through mines laying mines but that would be very indiscriminate that

could target their own vessels they really rely on oil their own oil being sold through that

straight as well so it would be a real shot in the foot the the likelihood would be the Americans

would not mill they would not tolerate any closure they would use their military to target coastal

missile sites coastal artillery sites and their submarines would already be I'm sure they're

closely patrolling where the ships which would try and do their blockade would it would come out

of just as an aside as well one of the Iranian ships which visited South Africa last month for

the will for peace exercises been sunk by the United States in the last few days they really are

targeting their navy I didn't know that um you made the point that maybe I mean we don't know yet

if ships will come around the Cape we didn't make much of that opportunity last time around um

the urban port is in the process of trying to improve Cape Town said a difficult time uh could

be could we make more of that opportunity this time around I don't know if enough has changed yet

yeah it's not clear whether enough has changed yet I think a lot of the underlying factors which

caused that that the the problems of effectively capitalizing on on the the new the new kind of new

normal of ships coming around the Cape is still there unfortunately one thing which does increase

I think the strategic relevance of southern Africa those is for Mozambique that is one place where

if liquid natural gas which has also been blocked not just oil but uh liquefied natural gas from

Qatar which India imports a huge amount that has also been blocked a bottled up and the price of

that is skyrocketed as well so the strategic relevance of not just the Cape route but the Mozambique

and waters uh where there's those huge offshore oil um excuse me gas discoveries also increases

because that would be one place you cannot blockade and the whole world would be able to effectively

visit that site and fill up on lng now um whether South Africa could potentially benefit from

that is one thing we should explore as well because that's always been a consideration if Mozambique

takes off South Africa would would benefit from lots of people being involved in the industry and

manufacturing as well that's something I'd like to see uh I think worth keeping track of

Timothy Walker thank you so much really important insight senior researcher on maritime security

at the Institute for Security Studies 26 minutes after six the money show the market

Merrill Picksport Folio managed at the old mutual investment group Merrill Good evening

are there so many different scenarios to try and sort of pick our way through uh with what's

happening in the Middle East right now good evening student yes and the scenarios have um varying

investment implications I think already in the short term we've seen um a few things

we've seen um gold continues to strengthen today um off the back of safe haven

investment we've seen um pgms diverge from that trend and weaken slightly of course

pgms have been part of the precious metals rally of late but a huge demand driver remains

car production and demand for cars so if there is growing uncertainty about global growth

um you know you that reaction from the pgms complex is they not surprising but interestingly the

ran hasn't weakened dramatically and the South African market the JC has actually hold up um

surprisingly well compared to previous risk off scenarios and I think that has a lot to do with

um how big gold has become in the JC at this time so the various um scenarios all the way from

you know does this get resolved within the next 10 to 12 days to does it take um weeks, months

or even years will have a big impact on um the energy complex oil natural gas as your

I guess um has mentioned does that substitute demands pull over into the coal market

um and then what does that mean for global global growth for inflation um even for um

let's say the tech industry and their artificial intelligence ambitions because everything that's

happening in the world right now um is going to be very energy hungry the innovations that are

happening um uh the one of the short term consequences for us higher oil prices higher fuel prices

and therefore higher inflation absolutely um so there would be some direct beneficiaries we saw

settle um hit to high above 150 today but on the opposite end of this if this does become

protracted um you know whatever reprieve that South African consumers have had from lower fuel prices

um would reverse and go the other way for now the Rand has held its own as as I've said but um

the oil price is the other part of that equation what is what is positive I think um is that

our expectations were for the reserve bank to cut rates um you know across the course of this year

so um what that does mean at the very least there there's not an immediate need to

hike rates it could mean that those cuts need to go on pause until we see how this um

pans out but the fact that we were on the cusp of actually cutting um you know means that there's

some breathing room what we will be watching now is the continued severity of Iran's response

if they continue if if they start to be supplied with or resupplied with arms from any of the

allies like China or Russia um because the duration of the conflict um is going to be the

biggest variable um now on on on global growth sustained uncertainty around the passage of oil

to its destinations is the key thing to watch um and at the same time US markets they did

open a full percentage point down but i mean the nastics already up

well i think the pattern has been that investors buy the dip um and i think time will

tell whether that is you know the prudent thing to do the other thing that happens the longer

that this conflict um continues um it it's being funded by you know US treasuries ultimately

so if the starts to drag into a scenario of weeks and all months um it will increasingly be

questions asked about america's deficits this is going to make that worse we know that Trump

increased the defense budget by 50 percent um and clearly he's already on a path to use it um so

in the shorter term there might be a real impact in the longer term the cost of capital in the US

could go up Merrill Peck thank you so much portfolio manager at old mutual investment group just after

six thirty what's up Steven on oh seven two seven oh two one seven oh two

well some responses coming through about the situation in the Middle East uh chance uh chance

uh chance is maybe the world should attack america and israel to see how they like getting attacked

they wonder five they should get it well i don't think that's going to help us Ben says

Steven like Bob Dylan said it's not dark yet but it's getting there

in freedom thanks very much that's very cheerful yeah lots to be concerned about lots to watch

very closely uh lots to just sort of pay attention to as well y'all forwards please on oh seven two seven

two one seven oh two the money show with Steven Krugger's live on 92.7 and 106 FM streaming on the

prime media plus nap and dstv channel 856 14 minutes now to seven the time well oil prices gold prices

up significantly since the start of the u.s. and israeli bombing campaign on iran and iran's

response uh markets in a way reacting as you would expect although u.s. markets do seem to be already

at least one turning positive john stop foot is the head of multi acid income at 91 uh john good

evening i do appreciate the time i suppose for a lot of investors the two big issues are probably

oil and then uncertainty about what will happen there obviously completely interrelated to each

other yeah i think that's right um so oil is the the sort of main transmission mechanism and energy

prices more generally so it also impacts natural gas where cateur is a big exporter of lng but yes

of course that one of the big unknowns is you know how how whether this escalates further how

long it lasts uh and so on so there is an element of risk premium being built in as well so

traditionally some of the more volatile parts of markets uh have been hit a bit harder than the

others um i mean u.s. markets opened a full sort of percentage point down they've recovered even

the j.s. he not as bad as it was when it started i mean is that mean we've seen a lot of buying

the dip recently is it possible that happens here in that bizarrely despite i mean a very real

threat to kind of energy as we know it ready or energy prices as we know them markets could almost

recover perhaps almost too quickly yeah yeah perhaps i mean i i i think i mean they're going

to be volatile for a while i mean there is typically a pattern to these things so people get

obsessed i guess with geopolitics because it is ultimately you know pretty significant

particularly for people affected directly but financial markets i think have got quite used to

an event happening uh it being priced in for a while and having a market reaction

broadly as as one might expect but then you know as the crisis blows over as some resolution

happens markets essentially rebound so um i think some people are trying to get in there early

they're sort of taking a view perhaps that dot on trump has a sort of um mo which involves

you know going in big but actually not really wanting to um take too much political pain and

and you know happy to declare victory quite quickly so there's probably a bit of that i think

there also looks as though there's an element of sort of um short covering going on so things that

were doing less well have actually bounced a bit so things like bitcoin for example which has had

a really torrid time really probably since november you know that's up that's one the strongest

rallyers today but quite a lot of the tech stocks in america palantir is was the leading stock when

i last looked uh you know in a video doing quite well etc so there's a bit of rotation as people are

cutting maybe their lungs and shorts and so you're getting some moves that may may not be appear

that rational they're just position squaring um and we have seen some quite big moves in in the

bond market but then that was rallying pretty hard last week so i it's quite difficult to read a

pattern other than you know as expected oil is up dollar is up a bit um and you know equities

are maybe mixed what's your sense of South African markets in all of this oil obviously an issue

for us that's our real problem we produce gold big part of our index now um we sort of relatively

well placed actually uh arguably yes i mean i i guess you know that again there's been a fair

amount of optimism for good reasons about South Africa in in recent times so you know i think

a bit of profit taking the land is not that surprising it remains a more volatile than average

currency and then i guess from that there's a bit of a feed through to inflation with

a somewhat weaker land higher oil prices you know so it's not surprising that bond the bond

market domestically here in South Africa has um you know done done um relatively poorly today

but yeah you're right some sort of resource shares potentially do quite well um it is off the

beaten track i i guess although you know um it it may not be the first beat place people look to

to add risk but i think if it if people will off at some point we'll be looking for bargains and

we haven't really seen enough moves i think to to suggest that that's going to happen

quickly and we don't as i say know quite how long this is going to last my guess is

you might have waves um it i think Trump said four weeks it might be less than that yeah i

my guess is it probably isn't going to be a lot longer than that um and yeah there will be people

looking to buy the dip um so so the the length of time is such a big part because i would imagine

if this goes on from month you know there's a scenario in which the straight up of moose's blocked

oil prices are high for a sustained period of time we heard earlier that that could mean for example

um Saudi Arabia and other producers of oil there run out of storage space they have to shut down

there a refineries uh that's one scenario um and i would imagine markets from sort of almost week

to week will kind of i mean use the word volatility that's probably the correct word um on the other

hand um there could be a sense of optimism that this is all going to change very quickly

yes yeah i mean i i think on the oil price you're right the the the longer um this goes on you know

the more uh

you seem to have lost john stop with there unfortunately uh the head of multi acid income at

91 john sorry about that does happen sometimes but uh yeah uh stuck i'm afraid in the either

there but i think i think we've got a lot from that interview john stop it thank you eight minutes

now to seven the money show Stephen Hurtz is brought to you by app cell corporate and investment

backing refine performance is a measure of discipline that's how we're invested in your story

after the registered FFPE six minutes now to seven the time well let's sort of catch up on some

corporate news today and rcl food saying the crisis and our sugar industry having a big impact

on them their headline earnings down per share by over 22% in six months to the end of December

Paul Crickchenk is the CEO at rcl foods Paul good evening you produce sugar we've seen a huge

surge in sugar imports into the country what's that doing to your operations

he wants dealing and he wants to know thisness um yeah i just had a major impact on our sugar

operation and we've seen close to 170 000 tons of dp imports come into South Africa and it's

had a significant impact on the industry and essentially what happens is that displaces local market

cells which then get exported had a much lower international price um so it's had a huge impact

and just to convert the 170 000 tons into rand it's one and a half billion rand of lost revenue

across the whole industry and so yeah i've had a significant impact um other than that impact on

our sugar business our sugar business continues to actually perform well operation but you can't

hide away from those significant numbers i mean obviously but i mean i presume this this wouldn't

happen if those exporters didn't produce sugar for a lower price than we did why what's

happening in our markets or in our economy that's making our sugar more expensive than the sugar

that's important no it's uh Steven it's uh we should work with that simple um but essentially

international sugar is traded at export parity uh there's a surplus of sugar worldwide and it's

largely to do with economies of scale and you need to put a certain footprint down from a agricultural

and operational perspective at these malls and then what what what countries do is their

surface that they have their export or thickly dumped onto the open market and that is the main

reason that almost all countries protect their sugar industries from this um to make sure that

the industries have some protection would we be as efficient as someone like Brazil

know but can we compete with other international players uh in our industry uh definitely yes um you

want to change the way the sugar import duty is managed so that there is one i realize it seems

to have not been changed for a while and the situation has sort of changed around you and the

industry what kind of of system do you think would be 30 years of sugar producer and i suppose

to customers who want cheaper sugar uh not everyone in the food industry does want uh does want

to protect our industry they want cheaper sugar in some cases yeah so if we just go back to the master

plan that was signed a few years ago um there were agreements in place between both both our

customers um and the suppliers and those agreements were that there wouldn't be imported sugar into

South Africa and there wouldn't be only inflation related pricing increases uh to the market uh and

that was a way of of of uh called it appeasing or finding a middle ground for everybody um we

certainly haven't had inflation we have had inflation related price increases until the last 18

months and we haven't had one since then mainly because the the imported uh cost was below

below our our selling price um so so we thought we had a middle ground and obviously that has

in front fired we do understand um what the other companies want or the our customers actually want

mainly in the industrial sector um but there needs to be a balance here um so going back to

what what would make sense is a dollar based reference price that price has not moved since the

inception in 2019 so it hasn't moved with inflation and what we have had just some extent is

the sprinting of the rant impacting it but that's a smaller smaller part of of the issue so we need

the mechanism where we don't encounter with a dollar based reference price but we need that price

to move with some sort of inflation to keep a relativity um and I do agree with keeping the industry

honest I don't have a problem with that at all um you um and just just to sort of move away from

sugar you do other things too obviously at RCL foods but you have to stop production at your

dry pet food unit in March last year you say it'll come back online fairly soon what went wrong

so yeah unfortunately Stephen we had a salmonella that are planned uh so we need to stop that

plan to take it down for for deep cleaning um the plant has come back up in the last few days

and yeah it was an unfortunate thing salmonella is a is a common thing in food production

um but uh what is required is that no salmonella product in any shape or form gets into the trade

into the market um we are confident that our controls have managed to contain it within our plant

and and and no batches left uh into the trade um and we hoping to get that plant back up and

running uh to full capacity soon and refill the pipeline that's required uh for our pet food brand

I mean it must have hurt your bottom line uh somewhere along the line

um and yeah we'll in the second six months it was right at the end of the first six months

so we'll feed it now in this period um and we've got a number of mitigation plans in place to

support our brands uh get them back on shelf uh and get them front of mind of our consumers

Paul Crookshank thanks so much really appreciate the time the CEO at RCL foods just a reminder

of the sort of difficulties of managing sugar at the moment we've heard from the sugar

association from some of the producers there uh in the past about this uh and again as always

with trade so many different things to balance yes you want uh to protect our sugar industry I

think we need to have a sugar industry to employ as many people at the same time how expensive do

you want sugar to be I mean you kind of want the cheaper price and I suppose the issue then becomes

whether there is dumping people just uh sort of dropping it on our market at least in the cost of

production or not and that's where things start to get a little stickier don't forget at seven

thirty this evening we will be speaking I'm looking forward to the conversation

speaking about how to make a living out of all things vinyl by which I'm talking about

LPs records do you remember them we'll be talking about that from seven thirty good evening just

gone seven o'clock on the money show and now the money show with Stephen credits on seven

oh two let's walk the toll the money show with Stephen Curtis is brought to you by absent corporate

and investment banking refined performance is a measure of discipline that's how we're invested

in your story absent's originated if there's be eight minutes after seven the time uh plenty to come

in the next little while we'll speak to him put me in my decent the CEO of Bedvest they've had a

huge increase in their testing inspection and compliance services I don't know what that tells us

about how our society is changing what companies are doing maybe it's just a feature of sort of

economic growth looking forward to finding out with her in just a couple of moments again man our book

reviewer he's been looking at a book it is so utterly apt for the situation in which we find

ourselves today principles for dealing with the changing world order is by the investor

Ray Dalio and someone who's ready uniquely placed to offer some insights on that um and I was

thinking about this a little bit today I mean I am sure no matter of what generation you are

streaming is now sort of streaming your music is sort of so easy and almost a bit quitism and

really quite cheap frankly for what you get that that is kind of impossible not to listen to music

in that way it's not the best way not the only way to listen to music as I understand it and this

takes you to a very complicated thing called a sample rate which my technical producer Peter understands

far better than I the CD would be the best way to listen to music technically then you would

probably go to an even in some cases a very high quality LP and then maybe a streaming at some

point along the line I would probably have to find an old tape deck just to check where it would fit

in all of those things just because uh but we'll talk about how you make a career a living

out of dealing in vinyl we'll speak to Brett Dougmore the CEO of Samp Records and owner of Mr.

Vinyl after 730 this evening with Stephen Kruders live on 92.7 and 106 FM streaming on the

Prime Media Plus app and DSTV channel 856 one of those sort of statements put out over the weekend

and then overtaken by other events the chief investment officer at the public investment

corporation Cabello Records all uh resigning well not resigning parting ways amicably was the

way it was put in the statement with the PIC uh he had been suspended he'd been in the positions

since 2022 you're suspended I think it was late last year it seemed and there's very little

information about this but there was some questions about an out-of-court agreement that he reached

on behalf of the PIC with AO technologies this is Dr. Eggball surveys uh company and uh you'll

remember the PIC invested 4.3 billion rand in that company in the end the out-of-court settlement

was just 619 uh million rand and there are all sort of questions about that and the moment I say

that I know somewhere Eggball survey sorry Dr. Survey is telling his lawyers to write me one of

those letters to which we reply and then we get no reply in return so I sort of look forward to

receiving it at the point I do have to make though and this is about the PIC not so much AO technologies

is that the PIC is not explained what happened now if I were a government worker if I were a union

representing a government worker and my pension was tied up in the public investment corporation

and the public investment corporations frankly begin up to affect us all I would want to know more

we keep coming back to issues at the PIC particularly in the unlisted investment space

their chief investment officer now leaves through uh some sort of agreement

amicably we're told and we don't know why I think we deserve to know more frankly 12 after 7

the money show with steepen cruders on 7.02 7.02 but there's reporting today it was able to

increase its trading profit by 7% on an increase in revenue of 4% strong demand for hygiene and

hospitality services strong numbers of inbound tourists too and put me my decent as the CEO

at bed vest and put me good evening I appreciate you taking the time I know it's after 7 o'clock

and I'm sure you've been on the go are doing investor causes things all day so I do appreciate it

these are very strong numbers how much demand are you seeing for your hygiene services at the moment

what's driving that so strongly I'm good evening Steven and thank you very much for the opportunity

to spend a long day but it's good um so yeah you're absolutely right we've seen strong growth coming

out of our hygiene businesses and this is globally and I must say Steven that our hygiene

businesses all of them have performed well whether in South Africa or in the UK or in Australia

all of them have really performed well and in fact in the results you know I did I did

provide numbers to say we saw a 20% increase collectively at a profit level from our hygiene

businesses and it's driven by a couple of things so we've got structural growth in the hygiene

market awareness around hygiene awareness around wellness is something that is growing it's gotten

even worse post-COVID and so every single year we do see higher demand in that space and then

the other driver is last year we made an acquisition of a company quote citron that had a footprint

in the UK Canada and the US the UK footprint was integrated into our existing business

called PHS in the UK and then we had a contribution which is obviously new earnings coming out of

that North America piece so in that whole day we really did see a very very strong performance

and our hygiene businesses now collectively make up more than 55% of earnings in services international

sure I mean you're testing inspection compliance services have doubled so the industry is getting

bigger but I mean and for me it also sounds like maybe you're taking market share

yeah I think I think you're correct as we build scale we then have a bigger platform from which to

grow and once you have scaled you have got synergies that you're able to extract you've got economies

of scale that enable you from a pricing perspective and so you're absolutely correct there have been

market share gains in that space and the testing inspection and compliance space we're really

excited about it's new for us we entered it about two years ago we made an acquisition of a

company called Weichick that does lubricant testing and reliability testing and now we've added a

cortical which is water testing business so very excited to also be in the space in South Africa

which is growing and has created a method opportunity set for us for future growth

and your your sends release you said you might benefit from contracts relating to the privatization

of services at our ports what kind of involvement are you looking forward to there the big changes

there obviously yeah and so maybe just as a start to say that we excited about the progress that

is being made from a rail reform perspective obviously we've got 11 rail operators that have

been appointed last year we know some of those operators we know they capability we know they've

got capital to bring on what is required in terms of locomotives etc and so the

private sector participation is going to be great from an logistics perspective in terms of our

own terminal operations we're in the process of renewing our leases mainly on the bulk grain

and the bulk liquid side and we're nearing kind of negotiation into term and once we're done with

those we really are going to be looking at the poing additional capital for growth so that we

can expand our capacity to handle the various products that will be able to handle that

is our confidence right in how we expect the logistics sector rail and our supply chain

of the country to improve over the next two to three years I mean you're exposed to why

a sort of diverse range of activities in our economy overall you actually seem pretty optimistic

we do and I mean I said earlier on on a number of calls that I think that really

have to the rest of the world South Africa has a number of green streets and I think that's

structurally the South African economy is going to support business better going forward

I mean inflation is down interest rates are down that's great for a consumer from a

disposable income perspective in terms of capital flows into the country our GDP growth forecasts

for 2026 have been revised up our sovereign rating has been revised up we're off the

fact of gray list that's all green in terms of capital inflow and I've touched on the structural

reform progress from a rail perspective and power is equally there is come was profitable last year

they've got cash and we can see preventative maintenance coming through that is come piece so that's

great and I really think that there's a lot for us to ride on as South African companies in the

coming months in years and for me uh koalani has WhatsApp us on 07272 1702 kindly reminding me to ask

you about the bidvis bank sale you want a 2.8 billion round for it from Nigeria's access bank that

fell through what do you go what are you planning on doing now we've restarted the process already

so we've moved quite quickly it's interesting that when we release the SINS announcement

around a couple of weeks ago the response that we got was quite significant so they are still a lot

of players that are interested in the bank we are engaging all these sales we started the process

and earlier this morning I did indicate that we really aim to finalize the sale have cash in the

bank latest by the end of this calendar year so we're really bullish in terms of what we're going

to do we're going to take some lessons learned from the self from the first process and really try

and accelerate that process I mean you want a 2.8 billion that's fallen through you unlikely to get

that with another buyer now well we'll have to wait and see I'm sure I've got buyers on the line

listening I've put my poker face on we'll have to wait and see when I run a competitive process

this value in the bank we've got a strong balance sheet we've got a strong deposit book we've

got a strong base of clients and yeah we're going to we're going to go out there and get the best

client that we can and for me Madissa thank you so much really do appreciate the time the CEO

at Budvist 19 after 7 the money show business books well the book to be looking at tonight is by

Ray Dalio it's called principles with dealing with the changing world order I couldn't think

of a more timely day on which to speak about that Ian Mann is your regular book reviewer an MD

a gateways business consultants and he joins us now Ian good evening I mean yeah an astonishing

sort of moment to do this I'd need to start by saying this book written in 2021 yes a lot

change since then do the principles hold that's the point he's not they're not principles for now

what he's managed to do and then he's done extraordinarily well and I'll tell you why he did

this exercise the first place he's been running an hedge fund probably the biggest hedge fund on

the planet because of that it's always been terribly important that he understands global movements

what is done of late was being trying to understand the veteran bit and he came to conclusion

that they are that that the from his work that their cycles what he got what he was started doing

was he looked at all he has a massive team so he got his team to do a whole lot of research

he then passed all his research onto experts then he would come back to the team revise send

back to experts but he's really using the best the best on the planet I mean that's he's

available team when you're a billionaire and when you've got 136 billion and the management anyway

so he really came up with he came to the conclusion that they are cycles and he by looking at the rise

and fall of of of empires of a hundred hundred of years he the ones he focused on obviously only

about 500 years old because back with Chinese as well he said that they are cycles that repeat

themselves and why they repeat themselves is not because the world because the world's made up

of human beings and human beings have the same attitudes yeah and so what happens is he he identified

big cycles and I think the world I can share with you tonight is the big cycles and then in his book

which is very detailed he takes once he's gone through the big cycles he goes and says let's have a

look at what supports the cycles he gets into really granular information which which proves that

the which supports the notion that he has because I'm in like this he studied the the ones

the most important for us are the British the Dutch the British and the Americans all of those are

the other are the world's reserve current with the world's reserve currencies and by the way they

America will remain the world's reserve currency for good 20 years of their stop being the world's

greatest and wealthiest country only because in the same way as language if we used to speak to each

other in English yeah unlikely to change another language quickly so that's going to be there

for a while the the big cycles are driven by the success and failures of major countries throughout

the ages and he's he proves that one of the things that why why this is going to work these big

cycles work is because countries rise and then I get to a stage where because they're human

they start imploding internally and because structures make them implode internally for example if

you look at the rise of a power they grow strong when they develop productive economies they have

strong education they have good systems they have they have innovation and they have military power

military power is always important because it changes happening a lot around wars and military power

but not exclusively once they get to once they've been doing this for a while there and they get

to their peak the peak goes down only because the the you dominate world trade and finance and

and geographies geopolitics but your and your currency becomes the world currency but what happens

internally is that you extend yourself far too far yeah and then what happens is success breeds

complacency the complacency allows you to have debts debt that rises your productivity slows

and because you don't have to work that hard we're all wealthy now and inequality but internally

and it's internal is one of the major forces change with its internal revolutions or wars those

things change but when you have come countries that become rich and flabby and they tend not to work

as hard and then you have the countries taking over them later prepared to work much hard so just to

sort of look at at I mean you could go back to the Romans yes they have plenty of examples from

Chinese history and then you would also sort of look at at how things have changed even in our

time I mean America seems to be in the middle of that you know listen rich and flabby if I may say

indeed and what tends happen when you you just look at at the Dutch and Dutch were incredibly

innovative they good systems everything's working really really well but then they invented

they invented some which was game changing and that was the ship yeah because that they dominated

world trade what happened afterwards the country that took over them took over shipbuilding and they

did it cheaper they they got British people to build the ships which which the Dutch had developed

the technology for and now when once you've done all that stuff we can reproduce and this was

happening all over the world so that cycle repeats itself and I think that the idea of cycles

repeating themselves because humans human beings remain the same forever and one example if

you've got great wealth you will always ensure that the politics of your country favors your

great great wealth to continue it isn't something new it's happened throughout human history

so you have these cycles repeating themselves again and again what he does do very nicely is he

identifies what are the criteria for determining wealth and power and I think that if you look

firstly internally you can see what are the issues that we have to worry about and why why we are

science doesn't have to do it doesn't have to make you a non-important lead we Holland was that

the that was very small and I managed to do it but the key to be able to do is this you have to

have well educated people you have to have people operate civilly towards each other so that there's

nothing yeah you need to see that they come up with innovations and they once they've got innovations

they can find the capital in the system which you couldn't they can borrow against they actually

put the innovations into the market and that they're allowed to control what happens with money

once they stop making it so that's very similar to the why nations fail and the narrow corridor

hypothesis of development where it is where those things come through yeah I have to ask and I

don't want to put a speaker in the works but all of this was written so 2021 I think it came out

and it I said it's very timely now does AI change anything and I mean as as I hear you talk I'm

thinking well arguably you know the first sort of AI most of us heard of was Chatchy BT which was

American but deep sea was Chinese for kind of you know it into the price etc yeah I think that

I think that AI is going to be is a contributor yeah AI is just and he talks about the AI is

something which is going to help us a great deal we're going to be thinking ways we've never

ever thought before with capacities we've never thought before but even if as you say if we've

come up with something sorry if America has come up with something really incredible the Chinese

are going to pick up on it and they the Chinese have a very strong chance of becoming the next dominant

yeah and there there's a lot of indications that the great powers do rise and then they decline and

simply the nature of the world and there's a lot of things how long you can extend the the

your rise for and your dominance for is based on the quality of education which we sing better

in it's better in the United States sorry in in China then it isn't the United States however

disrupt I think to number four with the one and two being Chinese so we we sing the those sort of

changes and it is good reason to believe that that we must take China very seriously as a as a

contender to being the next dominant dominant power it's fascinating to think about thank you so

much ear man is our regular book reviewer the MD at Gateway's Business Consultants the book

is called principles for dealing with the changing world orders by Ray Dalio if you don't

know Ray Dalio is as he reminds us a legendary invest but certainly something worth looking at

if you want to understand some of the big transition some of the big changes and why there's always

something changing no matter what 28 minutes now after seven coming up the Aubrey the song show

on seven oh two and eight oh yeah Aubrey good evening I know you have one of my guests sitting

next to you but I would appreciate it if you don't run steal them in front of me tonight

I mean outside maybe maybe we have a conversation outside the studio I think that would be great

because that'll be like what four guests in a row I'd quite like to attend or back at some points

if that doesn't mean you know these are these are great guests you should take some money show you

should take that as a compliment I'm looking at my producers it's all them let me tell you what's

on the show tonight Dr. Chris Hendrix Chief Medical Officer at Decentra Health and Chief Community

Impact Officer at a rare cause talks to rare diseases this evening can we talking about just

generally what are rare diseases and what are we doing about it in the second hour intelligence

can sometimes feel like a rare disease alpha Ramushuana I witness you news reporter joins me in the

first half of the second hour of the show we're talking about yet another building that has

collapsed in Ordmondia what's going on there right and then straight after that we're going to

be speaking to Bafana Palan a political analyst he's going to be talking about the D.A.'s

federal chair race right and we're going to be talking about that and I believe there's a number

of people that have put up their high hands on that Brook Spector joins us in the third hour of

the show US veteran diplomat political analyst and associate editor at Daily Maverick talk to us

about the US Israeli versus Iran war that has begun scary story that for me and then of course the

final hour of the show is an open line all right Aubrey thank you very much indeed

again feel free to shake hands in front of me you can leave together if you missed

but honestly the stealing of guests on the show Aubrey shocking shocking shocking

we'll talk how vinyl survived and CDs didn't in just a moment how I make my money

beyond the algorithm how Mr. vinyl is keeping physical music culture alive looking forward to that

just gone 730 time for latest eyewitness news the money show how I make my money 21 minutes now to

ate so many different ways to make money but I often find the most interesting journeys are the

people who've been able to take a love for something from a quite a young age and then I able to

turn that into a living and I think it can also take real genius to take something that's sort of

all that many people kind of ignore don't see as something serious and yet are able to take

advantage of what is a big market for it and I'm talking about selling vinyl records LPs those

things for a living the person I'm talking about is Brett Dagmoy the owner of Mr. vinyl and Sam

records Brett good evening it's great to talk to you thanks so much for speaking to us tonight

good evening to you Steven and good evening to listeners it's lovely to be here

I presume I mean it's just a presumption of my part but you are quite interested in music

from a very young age oh absolutely Steven I think it's always been my passion it was my

lifeline when I was a kid like so many others around South Africa I grew up with my parents

listening to vinyl records and I would later as a teenager play in bands and get involved in

writing about music and it was always an escape from me and always something that I really wanted

to work hard in I was very lucky that I managed to pursue music throughout my life I did go to

universities go and study a BA in politics philosophy and economics but I was lucky at the same

time that I could sort of step away from that off-devin finished it and pursue music the vinyl record

thing is a very very interesting one and it started off in South Africa around 2012 the rest of the

world the vinyl revival started around 2009 towards 2010 but pretty much around 2012 people started

getting interested in vinyl records again which was a real surprise to a lot of us so there are

a couple reasons as to why it sort of started to take off one was that a whole generation that

being the younger generation now was really surprised to hear how just how good vinyl records

sound you know we've all heard our parents talk about how great it is to listen to an old record

and how the quality just seems and feels different but there is some truth in that and there's some

truth in the whole concept of listening to an analog recording so we saw that starts to sort of

take off and the other thing is people love collecting things if you like something and you want to

give it a space in your world so you know you want to have a vinyl record that you can put on your

shelf and you can see it and you can think of the artist and you can really feel a lot closest

to the artist by having a big 12 inch by 12 inch effectively art cover which you can look at

and give a space in your world too so those were the big driving forces but I'm seeing a really

exciting one at the moment Stephen which I wanted to tell you about okay I'm gonna come to that

in a moment I just want to talk a little bit about the playing of a record so when I go home tonight

I'll listen to Aubrey and if I feel I need to I will you know look at a something on my sort of

streaming service on my phone is very easy and it's simple but I remember when I first got an LP

and in fact I was listening to music right at the end of the LP era so I was just sort of getting

interested in music then and it was a pink record it was called that's now that now that's what I

call music six yes started off with Duran Duran I think had questions on it and there was

something about getting home with this thing telling my brothers not to jump on the wooden floor

of the lounge which obviously they did and putting the record onto the record player and then I was

absolutely petrified of this part putting the needle on in a way a quite clumsy bend and now and

not wanting to damage the record damage my parents needle and then when you got the volume out when

you got the music out there was a kind of magic there that I just don't feel comes from anything to

do with my phone you're exactly spot on I mean the the big thing is look you cannot beat the

convenience of owning and and having access to a streaming service but nobody ever remembers what

the first song they ever streamed was or what the first song they ever downloaded was you can't

connect with the album cover on your phone is too small and it's a digital file and you tend to

drown in it as well it's just too much going on it's just the insanity of it all whereas

everybody can remember the first vinyl record they listened to it and as you've just described

there were some really really great ones made that now that now compilation especially being pressed

on pink vinyl what you're also talking about there is the ritual of it all or what the big buzzword

would be for today would be mindfulness right this has always been a mindful pastime and

ways to listen to music you really have to think about what you're going to play you can't skip

between songs easily you have to lift up the stylus and be careful about it you have to take

good care of your records and make sure that they're clean all of these kinds of processes

create a little bit of a barrier where it's not so simple it just doesn't it doesn't disappear

to the background of your mind and as a result this this mindful experience starts to become really

really rewarding and as a result that is that has been a big driver for this so so the equipment

that your customers are listening to this on and I can see two ways of doing this the one is and I

can be sort of slightly boring on this and would be the latest the newest the most interesting the

most up-to-date way to play a record and the other would be to go and find a nice old deck you know

from the eighties maybe a technique I don't even know if the techniques brand exists anymore

and go and buy something like that or you know go and sort of put that together on a plenty of

people our friends who do that um how are people listening to records is it a good old system

is it something maybe they inherited from someone in the family or have they actually spent money

on something new so about five or ten years ago I would have said absolutely find a good old

system and ask around you know speak to your family or your uncle you're on to know somebody's

somebody still has their turntable sitting around and it would be a great idea to get it and to

service it and to to to get it up and running um what has happened we have noticed since since

about the covertime is this become quite difficult to get spare parts unfortunate yeah so certain

certain brands you can find like pioneer or techniques and you can still get spare parts for those

but many others have sort of fallen away what's happened in the interim is that there are some

fantastic brands that are meant manufacturing turntables and they are very very good

they're well-service in South Africa and and they've become more cost-effective let me put it that way

so we tend to see people picking up new turntables nowadays but if you do have access to to a turntable

in your family and it's it's a big brand like a pioneer or a techniques it's highly recommended

that you try and get that up and running again and you have to play it through something now again

a boring alert but you need a preamp right it doesn't because because the the record player puts

out a volume that's one tenth of you know what a CD player or your streamer does so you do you

need a little bit more than just the record player you're exactly right and these are all barriers

to entry which kind of sucks a bit but look it's it just adds to the experience when you are up

and running um what's very interesting about a vinyl record is you're listening to an analog

audio format so what it is is it's literally just the sound of the vibration of a diamond tip

stylus or what people would call a needle which is just vibrating in the groove as this record turns

round and round you can actually even put your ear close where that stylus is touching the record

and you can hear the music coming out of it so that's simple technology which has been sort of

perfected over decades that that technology then has to be amplified in such a way which is why

then we require these phono preamps to be able to get that very very quiet sound and amplified

even further than modern technology would have needed recently who is buying your records who's

coming into the store of a sort of Saturday morning Saturday afternoon spending some time hanging

out looking through is it people my age but more mature than you know I've spread bread or is it

people who are a little younger you know I love this question because it really is across the

spectrum I mean our youngest customers are nine 10 years old and they'll come with their parents

and buy some pop records um some of our oldest customers who'll be in their 80s we've had people

in their 90s come to buy records from us it it's really whoever is passionate and very very

interested and dedicated to music so we find that that's that's multi generations across all all

demographics it really does appeal to people from all walks of life um so it really is across the

board the one thing about final records though they are a bit expensive and this this mostly has

to do with the complexities around manufacturing overseas and having to ship them all the way to

South Africa you know sadly if you looked at a a globe South Africa is probably the further

is the way from any pressing plants on earth and as a result that can make it quite expensive

but you know if it's something that that you're really passionate about and it's something that's

for you it can be well worth the investment and speaking of investment it's really really important

that all of us go through our families of family collections and find out if our family has any

vinyl records left over there are a lot of very rare valuable and sought after vinyl records

that were manufactured in South Africa that are very collectible around the world

hmm that's awesome and just we have seen some yeah yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna come back to that

in a second because I understand some South African artists they want to be on vinyl they find it

I know you trying to help you they find it quite difficult to actually to actually get that done

because it's so expensive it is and it's an it's an incredibly expensive thing we we've tried to

sort of step in and help and and create a a very forward thinking record label which licenses

music pays the artists 100 percent royalties up front and tries to sort of set up an ethical

structure like that which then goes and manufactures these records overseas and brings them down

there is a huge cost involved you you tend to be looking at a minimum order of about 500 units at

the time and it and it is quite difficult to sell 500 units of a particular title in South Africa

the market itself is still quite small but the great difficulty actually comes in the knowledge

of of how you actually go about this whenever we manufacture vinyl record it actually involves

people in three different countries we'll do the best we can locally with with some excellent

sound engineers who will remaster the music for us but we have to use a cutting engineer who's

based in the UK and a pressing plant that's based in the Czech Republic so you it becomes quite

a difficult thing to to sort of organize and we're doing what we can to to help out you know we've

been working a lot with gallo music recently which has turned 100 years old this year which is

which is really fascinating but it there there is a lot that could still be done for this and

eventually at some point I'm hoping that there will be a pressing plant set up in South Africa

we're speaking to Brett Daagmall the CEO of Samp Records and the owner and founder of Mr.

Vinyl he's our guest on how I make my money tonight it's 10 minutes not to add it

the money show how I make my money eight minutes to eight we're speaking to Brett Daagmall the

CEO at Samp Records owner and viner owner and founder of Mr. Vinyl actually have a voice note

on 07272172

Good evening Steven this is Selma from Ruriput I still have a turn table that works quite nicely

and I even have some old records dating back to the 1950s the old 45 revolutions

but unfortunately I don't have a turn table that doesn't play those anymore but they belong to

my dad and their Mario runs on all those great names on it so I'm keeping it just for

well you never know maybe one day it'll become a collector's item thanks for a lovely show

thanks so we are exactly what Brett was talking about and Tim says

Steven I'm quietly enduring my own little disappointment remembering how I burned golden

records in the 90s thinking vinyl records would be a thing of the past since we didn't even have

a vinyl player back then now I've started collecting vinyl from scratch Brett it all goes to your

point you've got to look after your records you do they have to be stored upright you've got to

take great care of them you've got to remove the dust if you're based in the grey

Sir Johannesburg region it's also very static you got to take the static out of your records and yeah

make sure they're in sleeves and protected but we're literally there are so many valuable records

floating around South Africa that it's really really important that all of us do a little bit of

research and try and figure out if we might be sitting with something I mean I really love that

voice notes it's there's something very sentimental about the records which we come across but you

never know they could also dramatically increase in value and we have seen that there's certain

records which I have found locally which I've sold for over 25,000 round and you know there

is a demand or an international demand for quite a few of the South African artists which

you know it can it can actually be quite a pretty penny so definitely have a look around

sure so interesting and I'm presuming you've seen the movie high fidelity

I've seen bits of it funny enough we keep we keep delaying it there's some really funny

memories of Jack back there we always say as a store we all need to sit down and watch it

together at the cinema 44 Stan the so we are planning that at some stage yeah there's a lot of

special culture around vinyl records yeah so I mean I have an image and high fidelity is a

sort of famous movie about people in a record store in the 90s based on a British book

the movie was good the book was very good you're in a store so you're still in the business of

retail it's a very specific retail there's a lot of business you have to manage you you're sort

of in the right place how important is it to be with kind of shops that are similar to you it must

I mean 44 Stan he must bring people to you and particularly that place in Jobig at this time

completely mission critical retail is a very very scary space to be in I mean we we started as in

I started basically as an online hobby store which got bigger and bigger and eventually it got to

the point where we could go from clicks to bricks they call it where we could you know start to

look at getting into a retail store maybe I was too obsessive and too nervous but I did land up

looking I'm not joking it's sort of nearly 40 different locations to open the store

the the space of 44 Stan he opened up and luckily for us the stars did a line and it was the

right space to get into but when it comes to retail that the tenant mix is absolutely critical

the vibe and feel of 44 Stanley there no big chain stores it's it's very much a community it's

all based around design and being the best of small business you can be and that is that is really

accelerated our growth over the years as well so you know I consider myself really blessed to have

have found that space and it is very much our home when see these first came in Brett and I'm

small enough to remember that I thought records would be toast I mean tapes that already had a

big impact and and and and record survived CDs and in the streaming era it's actually CDs that

have disappeared yes completely and I don't think anyone would have predicted that in the 90s what

what's so special about vinyl that they've outlived CDs so I think with music that they're two

they're two different avenues here one is quality and the other is convenience so cassettes were

well they presented a more convenient way of listening to music they were small you could put them

in your car you could play them anywhere you could record your own cassettes then CDs came along and

they were a better version of this convenience but just as CDs came and replaced cassettes it was

it went straight to downloading and streaming which would just replace CDs as being the most

convenient way to listen to music the whole vinyl thing is it's it's made with such care and so

many processes are involved to manufacture these analog discs that the sound itself does it does

sound better depending on whether or not yours your system can handle it or not but it's also

fantastic to just give it a space to collect a space in your world what I'm finding particularly

fascinating at the moment and I'm seeing this almost is like a third driver towards vinyl records

right now we're seeing a lot of people who are very anti-AI and who are looking for these analog

spaces in their worlds they're tired of dealing with series and dealing with AI issues at work and

the stress which that brings and they're trying to find these ways to almost escape from that and

it's just been amazing to see how more and more people are talking to us about trying to create

almost an analog safe space for themselves you know it's like think about it back in the day you

would go to it's a Friday and actually put your kids in the car and off you go to the DVD store

there was no algorithm telling you what DVD to buy perhaps other than the posters at the door

and the person behind a desk who could recommend what was going on and it's a similar thing with

final records you know that there is no algorithm telling you what to listen to next and it starts

to become a very intentional very rewarding escape and pursuit for music and people are just

falling in love with it so we are seeing that that sort of anti-AI movement really kicking off

of the last I'd say six months or so and it's fantastic to see it down here as well I think we all

need safe spaces from our technology and final records can be one small component of that where

you can engage and listen to music the way it was originally intended to fall by the artists

well Brett it's been great to talk to you thank you so much the CEO of Samp Records and the owner

and founder of Mr. Vinyl and in fact I'm looking at the person whose idea this was thank you

very much indeed for that because that worked out very nicely it's a fascinating conversation

and really interesting to see how the world has changed

the money show Stephen Curtis is brought to you by app cell corporate and investment backing

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looks like the buying of the dip already starting in the US the Dow Jones is down point 07 the

Nasdaq is up point 34 the S&P 500 down point just 01 at the moment fascinating to see markets over

the next few days the volatility I'm sure will continue with what's happening in the US but primarily

what's happening in the Middle East. We're back tomorrow good evening it's 8 o'clock