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Welcome to Unbecontinent, your definitive guide to the week in European football.

I'm Dotton Eribio, I'm Andy Brassel, and I'm Nikki Bandini.

And this edition has Italy for Gossen, what it's like to qualify for a World Cup, and

is Northern Ireland, the team to remind them.

Also, Griezmann's long goodbye will atletee ever be the same without him, and after a flip-flop

season will Hendrix Teenage Kicks see Brazil through the World Cup.

Nikki, it's a day of destiny for Italy.

Of course, most people would consider them to be the favourites against Northern Ireland.

However, I think we ought to learn the phrase, we might cock it up in Italian.

How'd you say that?

Oh, God, probably language I shouldn't use on the football.

Gossen, you just used it, so maybe I don't know.

I don't know.

It's horrible.

I think there's definitely a feeling of exactly as you've just framed it.

It's a situation where everyone knows Italy the favourites.

Nobody's looking at Northern Ireland.

Northern Ireland, who, by all the way, are missing some of their best players, no Conor Bradley.

They're missing some of the players you might look at and think, actually, a player's

they really need in this as well.

Nobody's looking at that and thinking, well, this should be a game that Italy will

but Italy have failed to qualify for consecutive World Cups.

I'm sure nobody's missed that detail.

I think there's a few things to say off that.

The one which I always feel like I repeat is, think about what that means in practical terms.

All of us on this show, we've been around for a few World Cups.

We've seen lots of World Cups.

We know that Italy in the past have been at World Cups and we've watched Italy win World Cup.

But there's a whole generation of younger Italians who basically haven't experienced that.

There's a whole generation of Italian footballers who haven't played in the World Cup.

If you think, for instance, a 20-year-old Italian now, the last time they saw Italy play

in a World Cup was when they were 8 years old, but they even remember it that well.

There's almost 20 years of people who won't have that feeling of Italy being at World Cups.

The expectation, I think, probably feels different from generation to generation.

The fatalism, I think, feels quite oppressive for lots of Italians right now because Italy

were a much better footballing nation than Macedonia four years ago.

There was not a question about that.

They also had almost every shot over 90 minutes against them and they still didn't win.

So I think there's a feeling that, yes, of course, Italy is supposed to win,

but I don't know if there's a feeling that they will win in terms of the fan perception anyway.

The average Italian, do they feel confident Italy are going to get through this?

I don't know. I know lots of Italians who don't.

I think it's the way you framed it to me, Nikki, when we were speaking off air,

the fact that it's not can they win.

We know the answers to that.

It's that this or, indeed, an eventual final of games that are loosable,

not games in which Italy won't be the favourites, but in which they're loosable.

I mean, I saw one of the daily headlines yesterday on Wednesday,

on football, Italia, the English language, Italian football site, which I really enjoy,

was Italy's squad is worth 10 times as much as Northern Ireland or something like that.

And I thought, well, yeah, I knew that, really.

But is that feeling of convincing yourself, isn't it?

And I suppose in that situation, look, I know Giannano Gattuso is not everyone's idea

of the best coach Italy could have.

But all I would ask is, is he maybe one of the better coaches or one of the better personalities

you could have in this moment?

Do you know, I was thinking about this the other day and Gattuso

and whether he's the right appointment, wrong appointment.

I think when he was first appointed to replace Spaletti,

there was a lot of negativity around that appointment.

I think Spaletti was certainly, it felt like at the end of his road with the national team.

And I think a lot of people felt like that should have been brought to a close,

actually, after the Euro's given how, really just emotionally,

how he's in seem to be handling the role particularly well.

He seemed to be struggling to not snap at reporters to flare up and show his

more, I suppose, temperamental side, which maybe you can get away

when you're getting results, but when you're not getting results

and you're lashing out at people, it starts to look a bit out of control.

I think there was a perception that the Euro's never really,

he never really had a grip on things.

So he goes and the thing is, well, I can say all that about Spaletti.

Nobody questions it.

Spaletti's a really good tactician.

He's a great tactical coach who's shown it at the top level over and over again at different clubs.

And so then you've got Gattusa comes in.

He really hasn't shown that he's a great tactician at the top level.

And I think that there are lots of people who were wanting italy in this moment of

what felt like really fundamental need.

They were already behind the eight ball in that qualifying group.

They wanted to see Italy pull the rabbit out of a hat and hire a manager

who was an established great name of coaching

who was going to carry this project forward and get them into the World Cup

and fix everything.

And the reality is finding that person in the middle of a qualifying campaign that's gone sideways

probably very hard to do to get someone to sign up for that.

But certainly Gattusa was not the profile that I think a lot of people were dreaming of.

What he has done is really just do exactly what you would imagine

Janara Gattusa would do and would be as Italy manager.

He has spoken about connection to the shirt of what you're representing,

of what it means to be Italian, of what it means to be at the World Cup.

And I think those things are not without value.

And I think that Gattusa, through his career, in Italian, the phrase is

which means put your face, but it means not back away from your responsibilities.

Basically, it means face up to things.

And I think that he is certainly a person who will do that.

He isn't going to shy away from, no, it should qualify for the World Cup.

We are good enough and we're supposed to.

He isn't going to shy away from wanting to have that responsibility.

I think that he's put that on his players.

And for the most part, they responded pretty well.

I think that they got through all of the qualifying games they were meant to

and won them, even the game against Israel where things went quite badly for a while.

And they had to dig it out in injury time.

They did it.

The only problem is the one time they played a actually good team, Norway,

they got spanked again.

And so I don't think he's fixed anything tactically.

If anything, he's kind of king on to spiletti and ideals, if you were.

But can he get them through emotionally, which is probably the more important part of these two

games, that the proof would be in the pudding, won't it?

But I think that's what you've got to hope.

Yeah, it's surreal for somebody of my generation to even be contemplating that Italy

might not beat Northern Ireland and somewhat decisively, if not in numbers of goals,

but in terms of, you know, play on the pitch.

However, we do know, Andy, that Northern Ireland will give this a proper go,

but not even in the days of George Best, were they able to be Italy with Italy's

tradition that Nicky's talked about, the history.

In my generation, Italy were always in the World Cup and there were always, always,

one of four teams, maybe five, that were likely to win this World Cup.

But we've come a long way.

I wonder how much and Nicky intimated this as well, that because they have not this generation

have not been World Cup qualifiers, that will hamper them, won't it? This is where the nerves come in.

Well, I think that's it. The craziest of all the wild stats that are leading up to this game

is that Italy have not won a knockout game at the World Cup since the 2006 final in Berlin.

I mean, that is, that is incredible, really, isn't it? And so, Nicky was talking about

generations being unused to a good national team. You know, if you're, if you're under 18,

you've not seen it Italy win a knockout game at the World Cup, which you're right,

is absolutely mind-bending done. But I think that is where the sort of juxtaposition of

where Gatuzo lies is. Because on one hand, you can see him as this guy, like, beats the chest and

says, do it for the shirt and all the rest of it. But on the other hand, I think the historical

way is the thing that could weigh them down. And that's what they need to not think about. And it's

okay to say, okay, well, if you're talking about it, it's been a long time since success. A lot of

this generation of players have not been part of the failures. And that's true for some of them,

of course, but not all of them. And I think in a country that's so obsessed with football and

discusses it and lives it in such detail, you can't really completely avoid that. So it's

got to be up to Gatuzo and the coaching team to really shield them. And it's interesting,

what I was talking about with the headline before and like with my cello lippy coming out of,

of course, is part of a far more successful era of an Italian national team football.

And saying, look, if I had to pick anyone out of my team to lead us in this moment,

it would have been Gatuzo. He's the guy. He's me for all intents and purposes in this situation,

which I think is a nice thing to do and is the right thing to do as well. But I think

as far as they can divorce themselves from the pressure, obviously the easier it'll be.

I think it's interesting that Gatuzo had his part as well in choosing not to have the game at

San Ciro where they'd lost that big game against Norway and having it in Bergamo instead,

which is, you know, it can be atmospheric on its day, but it's a smaller, tight stadium.

And the idea that they can take care of business in a less pressureful environment.

I think Gatuzo said in the press conference, I don't want that situation at San Ciro where,

you know, we misplace the past or, you know, turn the ball over and all of a sudden everyone's

on our backs. So he's quite conscious of that. And I think if you drill down into what they've

actually got, and look, I think a good thing about Gatuzo is, as Nicky was saying,

pulling that game away to Israel out of the fire is quite a good example in that whatever you

think of him as a coach, he leans into difficulty. Like he's never really taken an easy job. And

I think his coaching record is sort of reflective of that really, but he doesn't shy away from

like incredibly difficult tasks like, you know, you could look at near mutiny at Napoli,

like trying to get a Milan into the Champions League and didn't quite do it on the final day,

but, you know, how to go at doing it and didn't really think about what that would do to his

reputation or anything like that, even hide, exploit really, but like loads of pressure.

And, you know, it didn't go as it was meant to, but I mean, he was taken on a club that was

desperate to win and hadn't had one for a really long time. So he's not shy at this moment.

And if you can not divorce yourself from his historical context, I don't even know if that's

possible, but I think if you can just look, as Nicky said right at the beginning,

into what they've got in the field, I think in the front half of the field, Nicky,

they are looking as good as they've looked in a really long time in terms of options.

Yeah, just like quickly on the good news, I think, because maybe I oversimplified it,

but I do think that what I was trying to say really is, he's not the coach technically,

you want to outsmart the next best coach in the world and win the World Cup final.

They're not trying to win the World Cup final. They're trying to qualify for the World Cup and

the team is good enough that it should qualify for the World Cup. This is the bit that I will

absolutely not have. And I feel like I keep hearing over and over again, because in 2026,

there's two states of being in football. You're either the goat or your crap. That's it.

There's nothing else like you're either the best thing that's ever happened or your crap.

So whenever I try to talk about Italy, I feel like there's always this social media reaction of

a weekly crap now. Yeah, Italy, a crap compared to 2006, a crap compared to 2002,

they're crap probably even compared to 2020, to be honest with you when they were 2021,

when they won Euro 2020, because they haven't got Bonucci and Barazzali in that back line that

you can call upon and go, you know what, there's something there that's completely reliable,

but they are absolutely not when you compare them to, frankly, the teams that they're up against

in this playoff qualifying section, they absolutely are not compared to lots of teams that go into

the World Cup. They are absolutely not when you consider that they've got Champions League finalists

twice in the last three years, playing for them in defence in midfield at wingback. They're

just not this awful team they're presented as. They are probably in European terms a kind of

upper middle of the road team, frankly, and that's where they belong and that's where they

should qualify, and part of the encouraging things to get to Andy actually was asking me,

is that yes, they've now in a way that they haven't always had in the recent past, they have got

real options upfront, Moise can and Reté, I think it's got nine goals between them through

qualifying, not bad at all, not bad at all as a number, and then on top of that you've got

POS Boise thought, who has been not just making cameos for Inter this season as this

emerging talent, but actually starting games, and frankly, at the weekend against Fiorentina,

I thought he was almost the only one on that Inter team who showed up to the level he should,

he scored their opening goal, and he very nearly scored a winner at the end, and

was denied by David DeHair in a match where Inter, who at club level are at risk of

blowing another league title, and really needed someone to show a bit of nervousness,

I thought POS Boise to show this, they've got three real options upfront, I mean,

again, we don't have to compare with the best ever Italy team, compare with the Italy team

that Andre Antonio Conte had Graziano Pele starting up front, this is better, this is a better

group of players, you have more options and you have more to do with it, so there are things about

this team that are encouraging. I think it's oversimplistic on the Northern Ireland side to say that

I expect Northern Ireland to just park the bus, actually, Northern Ireland don't tend to sit in a

super super low block, they do have play with five defenders, they are going to play defensively,

they are going to, one expects, rely on long bulls, but they're not necessarily a complete

park the bus team in the way they approach games, but they are going to be on the back footing

into Italy and it's going to be a challenge for those strikers to break them down, and I worry

that when I say things, I would jinx Italy horribly, but one thing that I thought was against Sweden

eight years ago, it was two full legs of watching Italy and thinking we could do two more legs and

they will not score, we will be here for another week and they won't score because Italy just

did not seem to have a goal in them at that time at all, against North Macedonia, despite having,

it was, I can't, I haven't checked the numbers, it was at least 20 shots, it might easily

been over 30 shots in that game, there really weren't many of them that felt like they were going to

lead to a goal, so when the North Macedonia finally took a shot at the end of the game and I go,

of course, that went in because Italy weren't going to score again if you gave them a month,

I think this Italy team will score, whether or not they will win is a second question,

but I think this Italy team will score and that feels like something of a form of progress

from the last two teams, so I do think that is a real point. Again, everyone needs to be

serious about who's starting in this team, Bastoni at centre-back, Kalafiori who's playing games

for Arsenal, a midfield of Tonali, Barrella and Locatelli, probably, DeMarco on the wing who's got

15, 16 assists in Serie A, this is not a bad team, it's not, it's not Totti del Piero, Vieri,

it's not Malini Nesta, it's not that, but it's a good football team, it should be more than

good enough and I do think the thing that is encouraging most of all is that point that Andy's

raised, I think they should score goals and you hope they won't have some sort of meltdown,

I hope Northern Ireland obviously hopes they will at the other end of the pitch.

Thank you for bringing in your jinxes into the conversation, but should Italy avoid the calamity

of losing to Northern Ireland, then they face the mighty Bosnia or the mighty Wales.

How much, I mean, will the trepidation increase or will they by then

relax? Well, these are two difficult away games, I don't think there's any doubt about that,

I think Wales under Craig Bellamy are really interesting and remarkably, we talked about that

controlling the environment as good 2-0 wanted to in Bergamo, the kind of city stadium,

if you drive past it or you go up to it or you approach it for a game at the first time,

you think, oh, this is pretty identity kit modern stadium, but you fill it with near 30,000

Wales fans and oh my goodness, you know, the atmosphere is incredible and that's why they play there

and not at the Millennium Stadium as well, despite the size, so that's that's difficult

and then Bosnia are a far improved, they're in a terrible state if you go back

a couple of years and now they're they're looking they're looking better despite

Sergey Barbara as a legend that Steve Cooper has been trying to hamper their hopes

which probably have sort of come back at, but look, I think the difficult thing about that,

the potential final is that this is something where you can't control the environment,

player for player, yes, Italy will be the favourites against either of those teams.

But it's really difficult if they were both at home, of course, as we said that the environment is

something you can sort of have have more of an influence on, but to go away to Wales or Bosnia

and and get a result, even if player for player they should, if they get their place in the

World Cup, they'll have earned it. Just to say, if they don't, because again, even though I've just

made the case of why Italy should win, Italy can lose not that and the worst scenario is that if

you do lose that first game, the two losers are supposed to play a friendly on the day that the

other two are playing their playoff, which has already been christened in Italy as let me give

on it, De La Vergonia, the friendly of shame. So if if you are thinking about what a difficult

game it might be for the actual playoff game, I'm trying to imagine how grim it would be to go and

play that that friendly potentially even in Wales, it could be Wales in Italy in in Cardiff playing

for absolutely nothing, so we'll see. Well, I'm sure Northern Ireland don't want to play in the

friendly of shame either, so we'll see.

Looking for soccer analysis, more knowing than a Carlo Ancelotti eyebrow raise,

with the World Cup around the corner, join me, Max Rochden and the Guardians expert

on football weekly for all the latest soccer action and news throughout the week. We'll

cover more ground than Drew Bellingham in a Champions League final with conversations sharper than

an Arsenal set piece, for fine margins, fund debates and full blooded tackles football weekly,

listen wherever you get your podcasts and watch the full episodes on YouTube.

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I know you both know this. I don't know how much you've been grieving at the loss of a friend of

the programs, and when I say a friend, this hardly, you know, a month goes by without Antoine

Griezmann's name being mentioned, at least once upon a time, and he has now announced,

and it's been talked about, he shouldn't come as a surprise to many people that he is leaving

athletic home of the bridge, and well, that's surprising, but maybe that he's going off to the

MLS, and I know it's a player that we talk about, add infinitum here on the pod, and we have also

predicted this, and we've talked about it as well, but my goodness, doesn't it leave you with a

sense of, you know, dread as to how we're going to miss this player, this mercurial player?

I mean, I was wondering how you'd frame that, Don, that he's leaving athletic home of

the bridge for the second time. The Antoine Griezmann is leaving European football, or that he's

leaving OTC, because it feels like that as well, doesn't it? Look, I think it was never about whether

this move was going to happen, it was about the timing, as David Cartledge said to us last time,

we talked about it on here. MLS has been an aim for him for a while to finish his career.

The way it's been framed in France is that it's a family choice, a choice that is making for his

young family rather than just himself, but I don't think that's right, because while he might have

picked Orlando City, because there's a big Hispanic population and community there, you know,

he could have chosen their lay, if that was the case, because LAFC were interested as well.

But we know that Griezmann has had a really long-term interest in

US sports and US culture, so the fact that he wants to end up there is nothing new. But the

timing is interesting. As David said, they were hoping to get him before the MLS transfer deadline,

which was this week, so they could put him in straight away, but he wanted to stay until summer.

I think really it's an expression of how he feels about Adletico and how Adletico feel about him.

Now, when Adletico won the second leg just about one the tie after the second leg is probably

about a way to put it in it, in the Coppa del Rey semi against Barcelona, everyone was asking

all Adletico's players, all journalists were asking, is Antoine Griezmann going to stay?

You know, no one was asking, God, you nearly blew a four-go lead, but that they're asking is

is Antoine going to play in the final? And they all pretty much to a man said, we really hope so,

but he's earned the right to pick his own exit. And that's reflective of the fact that

what's his club legend is the top scorer of all time. We're 211 goals to date, of course, he could

make that the high watermark even higher by the time he left. But it does feel as if

Griezmann is the guy who's been digging the trenches for ages for Adletico for a decade,

pretty much apart from that little dip at Barcelona. And that he deserves a last little

something, I think. And of course, we could say maybe the Champions League is still a possibility,

although whether it's a realistic possibility, Nikki, maybe you can answer that.

Maybe you're answering more than one word, I don't know. But to me, to me, the real prize for him

is the Copa del Rey final. Against the club where it all started for him, Rao Sothead ad when he

was 14 years old, when he was rejected by Leon, his local club that he supported as a kid because

he was too little. And then he was spotted in a tournament and went over to Spain. And

Spain has been, it's not just Europe, it's Spain, really, that's been the core of his club career.

I remember back when he was at Rao Sothead ad interviewing him preseason. And I'm saying,

I'm so Spanish, he was in his early 20s at this point and he said, I'm so Spanish at this point,

I even speak to my cat in Spanish, which is a nice way to put it. Of course, he's become even

more Spanish since, I suppose, really. So whatever happens between now and the end of the season,

I think he deserves the Copa del Rey as his curtain call because they didn't get the Champions

League over the line in 2016 or any other time. The year since he arrived a year after they won

La Liga in 2014. And when they won it in the Lewis Sparrows, Revenge season, he was off at Barcelona.

So, you know, I don't think you can say after his career, that his club career at Adleti,

that is unfulfilled because of course, it's not. You'll go down as maybe the most important player,

or at least one of the most important players in the history of the club. But a little extra

something for him, I think would be nice and would be deserved. It isn't even funny yet. I was

going to make that same point you just made about the fact that in the Diego Simione era,

they've won two league titles and he's managed to manage to be right after he left to go to Barcelona

and also right before he arrived. And yet you would also look at this era. I mean, obviously,

the numbers say it. He is their top scorer. And I think that he was very reverential actually

about the moment when that happened as well about catching up to Adagon Es and matching him.

There was a real acknowledgement of the club's history. And I think he absolutely

does feel very profoundly that he is an Adletico man, doesn't he? I know that there was

this uncomfortable chapter in the middle. And it wasn't uncomfortable chapter. Things were,

when he came back with Barcelona, the plaque fame was was was vandalised outside the stadium and

people with plastic rats and all sorts going on. So it was, it was a really uncomfortable chapter.

And it wasn't even that when he first came back, he got the full prodigal sun treatment.

The Simione let him be there. Simione was happy to have him back and say, you're here again,

but it did take him time to win the fans over again. But I think what was also true is that he did.

I think he did put in the time with the fans. He didn't expect anything. He didn't

say the wrong things at that point and say, no, you should treat me a certain way.

He earned it. He came back and he worked hard and he even accepted that

incredibly weird chapter when he was on loan. And because they didn't want to trigger his,

his full signing bonus, he'd just playing the ends of games and he didn't say a word and

complain about it. And he gradually rebuilt his form. And I think it's actually kind of

beautiful how he gets to leave with I think most fans adoring him again. I think he earned it.

I think he got back to the place in them in their affections where now when he wants to go and

have a, this, this, this different chapter, no one, I suppose at this age, maybe no one

begrudges him it because they feel like he's, he's not out of his usefulness, but he's no longer

the dominating player that they're going to miss in the same way. But I also think that they

feel like this is a happy ending for everyone, which, which is a nice spot to have got to, even if yes,

there is something, there is something I suppose almost. Perhaps that's even the,

the, the, the part that makes it fair, the part that allows for this reconciliation is, okay,

we'll take you back. We've accepted you. You don't get that league title. We got that without you.

One person who was supposed to light up European football today was the amazing

well. It's still amazing. I think it's fair to say teenager from Brazil,

Zill, andric. People were talking about him long before he arrived over here. He came to play

for your French team, Andy, Leon. You were excited at the time. We're all excited at the time,

but he came for a reason, and it seems that that reason has been fulfilled. However,

I'm not sure if the deal for Brazil ahead of the World Cup was the one they were hoping for.

It's, it's a really strange situation. I think that Andric finds himself in because, of course,

the move to Leon was telegraphed for a couple of months before it happened, as we underlined at

the time. And then with all that build up, he actually delivered from the off. You know, I think

you could tell the global excitement that he was, you know, released from his golden prison at the

Bernabéu and actually got to come and play some games. But the way that he was ready to receive it,

ready to take on that opportunity was really impressive. It was clear that Leon needed someone

exactly like him, a striker who wanted to shoot on site. And look, he played brilliantly from the

beginning, and Leon were riding the crest of a wave. And so is he. And I think he's easy from

the outside to say, well, it was brilliant when he arrived. And now he's in the Brazil squad,

but actually there's a bit in between, which I think is worth examining. Now, obviously, by part

of the reason that he's ended up in the Brazil squad. And look, I think he's done himself a lot of

good in the in the time he's been at Leon and the fact that he's actually been able to get out and

get some reps is something that's really useful and gives Angela your reason to want to pick him.

Of course, that a previous relationship from from from Real Madrid. That the fact that

Hendrik has not been playing centrally. He's been playing on the right hand side for a lot of

the time. He's at Leon. And of course, Rodrigo is injured and out of the World Cup now is his

form of Real Madrid. Well, you could say that current couldn't you, Real Madrid teammate. So

in that sense, all great, but he's not scored in a month and a half. Last time he did score was

in the Cup de France against a relegation. Fret and team in in lead to Laval. So it's been a

while. And there's been a little bit of pushback, really, both from Leon fans and in France in general

about him. Saying that, you know, maybe he's not that team focused for what is worth. I think a lot

of these criticisms are unfair. You're bringing this guy to get shots off. And then when he gets

shots off and not all of them go in, he gets a bit of chip for it. I find that a bit extraordinary,

really. But I think it's easily forgotten in all of this context. He's still only 19 years old.

And of course, he arrived at Leon having barely played Nikki in the first part of the season.

I think there have been points in the last month where he's looked at as if, whoa, you know,

it's a bit like if you've had a heavy dinner and then all of a sudden you've got to run up a

really steep hill. It's quite difficult to make that adjustment from going from zero to a hundred,

isn't it? Yeah, I think the 19 part is so important of it in it. Because again, literally a

teenage, I mean, listen, he probably won't remember it either World Cup or say that for his staff.

I think that what you were just looking to there is really important because I think when you

even hear the reasons people are excited for having him in the national team and what he

represented for the national team is this idea that he was going to be this attacker who had that

range of movement who can connect the play between the midfield and the attack as well, who can

do all those things. And I think in recent times, Andy, it looks exactly like what you've been

saying where he gets someone who wants to shoot with it because because he hasn't scored recently

because he's a teenager and he's anxious and he's trying to impress everybody and he's got the

World Cup looming and he wants to, he wants to get it right. And I think that it's normal that he's

not able to get everything right that he's not necessarily regulating all of his emotions correctly

when, by the way, in some games, he's getting booted left right in the centre by opponents that he's

not managing all of that responsibility. And also where he's gone somewhere and because he started

so well, they've kind of anointed him as the man there right away and expected him to do everything.

I think it's a tremendous amount of pressure he's under. I don't doubt that if you

asked him about it, given how he certainly is eager to play for Brazil, he'd probably say he

wants it and he can handle it and all these things because that's what young people do when they're

trying to prove themselves and they're trying to establish themselves. But it doesn't mean those

things aren't affecting him. And I do think when we look back at that fast start he had, yes, he was

playing really impressively. Yes, the numbers look good for a minute. But three of his four

Lee Hangos came in a single game against Met. Yeah, it was a very bright explosion of everything going

well. It wasn't a sustained proof that you've got the body of work yet. And again, that's not me

trying to criticise him because I think it's just unreasonable to expect a 19 year old to be

perfect all the time. I think it's unreasonable to expect everyone to be perfect all the time. But

especially when you're thrust into the limelight like this. So I do think he's a victim of outside

expectation. But I also think that he's now the way he's playing is different to how he played

when he first got there. And I think that's a situation where he probably needs a bit of help

from coaches and from people around him to say stop trying to do everything. And one thing I will

say is Carlo Antelotti is quite a good coach for that sort of thing and knows him already.

You know, I was exactly going to say just that and even a bit more Brazil. Let's not forget.

Okay, Hendrix, no, no, no, no, 19. But Pele was 17. There is a history of

teenagers coming good that Hendrix for me have dropped. But do you not? First of all, like Nicky said,

Antelotti is no mug and he's not carrying passengers here. And secondly, Brazil

have a history of young, amazing forwards showing up for the welcome. But isn't that kind of the

issue that we're so keen to put him in that bracket? And it goes back to the chat that we're having

about Italy and the weight of historical context really, isn't it? Whereas I think what

Antelotti is so good at doing is like cutting back all that bullshit and like simplifying stuff.

So just taking the drama out of things and whereas I understand from our perspective,

from fans and media perspective, like history is important. Of course it is. But for Hendrix,

I don't think that should be important. Just like for Italy this week, I don't think that should

be important as well. I don't think anyone should be saying to him anything about Pele and

the World Cup. I think it's just like go along, go to the World Cup. If you can contribute off

the bench a couple of times, if indeed he does make the final squad because that's still an if

because how he does, I think, between now and the end of the season that Leon and the sort of

physical Nikki looks in, how does he recover, I think, is really important. What I would say

with Hendrix is I think it is a great option off the bench for Brazil because and not just because

of the injury to Rodrigo, but because, well, Neymar's kind of out of the picture now, which I think

is probably the right thing. We talked to Tim Vickery a lot, don't we? And we know the sort of physical

condition he's in and that he would only be picked really on his name. And I think you need

someone as strong as Carla and she'll like to sort of resist that. But the one thing I would say,

well, Hendrix not been scoring. He's not been playing terribly. And I think his overall contribution

to the games and his ability to try and make stuff happen even from quite big positions where he

wants to dribble the ball. He wants to take on defenders. He wants to use his pace. He wants to

set his team mates up. And in fact, he set up the goal for Pavel Schultz against Monaco at the

weekend. And the two of them link brilliantly together, by the way, all I would say if you look

at what's gone right and what's gone wrong since he's been at Leon, when he first arrives because

of all the media explosion around him and all the excitement around him, people are right to be

excited about him. And the fact that he's come from Real Madrid. I think when Palafon Secre, the

Leon coach said early on, well, we'd love to try and keep him for next year. And people laugh to

know like, yeah, right. There's absolutely no judge. This guy's going to go and rip it up with

Real Madrid next year. But actually, I think Real Madrid have to have a serious think about where

he's going to fit next year. And how are they going to continue to develop him? And who should

continue to develop him? So whether that's Angela, you're international level, whether that's maybe

Palafon Secre at club level, because I think what the last six weeks where he hasn't been scoring

of underlined is going back to what Nikki was saying. The key point is his 19. He's not the finished

article and he shouldn't be. And I think probably the best thing for him. And I know there's

financial imperatives and other things to be considered. I feel that leaving him at Leon for a

year would be a really good thing for him, because he's not the finished article, because he's got

a Lucophone coach and coaching staff, because there's that huge Brazilian influence, Leon and

there's, you know, that connection, that understanding, you know, they've got a full-time

Portuguese interpreter who is about, actually, she's been there for like 15 years now,

something like that, because it's so embedded into the culture of the club. So I think he went

for that move because he thought, this is a club and a city where I can be happy and where I can

start to become an important player. What the last six weeks has made clear is he's not ready to

be that player for Real Madrid yet. And I don't want him to go back there and sit on the bench. I

want us to be in a position where every year in Europe that we can watch him on a weekly basis and

we can talk about him and we can be excited by his performances and that he can continue developing

into the player that his talent dictates that he should be. Having said that, Nicky, can you see him

if Brazil win the World Cup going back to Leon? I mean, this is exactly the problem. What is

about to say is his market position this summer will be defined by the World Cup. If he has a not

particularly high profile World Cup, I think what Andy talks about is very possible and might

well be the best thing for him. But World Cups and international football in general,

they are just a bit weird. We want to apply the same logic to international football that we have

club football where superior tactics and teams always prevail. And it kind of isn't what happens

over a summer tournament. Over a summer tournament, one player having a hot run where they just play

it doesn't even have to be many. It can be three good games can completely transform the world's

perception of them. If those three good games happen to be two knockout games and one group game

even that make a big difference in the team going through, suddenly that can completely change

everyone's idea, especially with forwards. If he scores five or six goals, then he'll have a

completely different market to if he scores one goal or no goals. And it won't be a realistic

difference in who he is, the player, that's just the way the world works and it's just the way the

football works. So it's sort of impossible to predict, I think, what his market's going to be and

whether or not staying in Leon is realistic. Because I think if he has an average World Cup,

and what I would guess the kind of World Cup he's going to have, is it will be possible. But if he

does have a good World Cup, then no, he'll be either going back to Real Madrid or they'll be

cashing in on him at a rate that's probably not sensible for what he's done so far in his career.

Okay, let's look back now at last week's Game of the Week choices. As you probably know,

if you're a regular VOTC, we always recommend some games for you to watch over the weekend. Andy,

last week, you picked Feynord versus Iaxx. You ended up a draw, won't you?

Yeah, and we reviewed it, actually, me and Calam van Oeshoeden from Football International,

the Dutch magazine, discussed it on Monday's OTC, so it's further down on your feed.

Really interesting match, incredibly tense. And yeah, with implications potentially for both

clubs going forward. Yeah, indeed. And Miguel, Nicky, picked Real Madrid versus Atlético Madrid.

It was, you know, the Derby of Derby is in Spain, and it was quite a match.

Yeah, I don't think it wasn't a left field choice by Miguel, but he definitely got a good one,

didn't he, with those, with the game we got. Look, I'm obviously putting Atlético head,

Real Madrid coming back to lead, then Atlético scoring again, and Vinnie Jr, who,

Vinnie's, I was going to say Vinnie's dealt with some criticism, but Vinnie's always dealing

with some criticism, isn't he? And he's always dealing with criticism and then scoring goals

and winning games, as he does. So yeah, really, one of those probably important shows from Real Madrid,

that they're not done in the title race quite yet. And also, I think, a further indication of

really how quickly this club has shifted direction since the first leg of that Man City tie in

the Champions League. Everyone was coming into that game saying, oh, we're not sure they're going to

have a good tie here against Man City. They thumped Man City and all of a sudden since then,

they look back to being swaggering Real Madrid, but don't they? We will follow their progress,

of course, throughout the season. Real Madrid, three, Atlético Madrid, two.

Well, and you can join us again tomorrow where we'll be making our latest selections for

game of the week, and of course, telling you what you should eat with it crucially. Plus,

we'll be answering all of your questions about the latest news from the world of European football.

Do make sure to subscribe in your podcast app so that you never miss an episode. Andy Brassel,

thank you. Thank you. Don't know how to buy it. And thank you, Nicky Baddini.

Thanks, that's him. We'll see you tomorrow.

On the continent is a stack production and part of the ACAST creation network.

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Immersing yourself in all things soccer ahead of this summer's World Cup, I'm Alex Abnos,

Senior Sports Editor from the Guardian, and whether you're a soccer beginner or you know the

game inside and out, we've got you covered. Read, watch and listen as our journalists connect the

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