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Italy, we send you one simple message ahead of your World Cup play-off semi-final against Northern Ireland tonight. Please, all you have to do is not screw it up. But will it really be as straight forward as it should - emphasis on SHOULD - be for a nation that hasn't been at the world's biggest tournament since 2014?
Nicky Bandini joins Dotun and Andy to share her anxiety. Plus, after La Liga's most drawn out transfer story of all time, Antoine Griezmann is finally set to leave Atlético Madrid for Orlando City in the summer! How will he be remembered at the Metropolitano? And Endrick, now at Lyon, is back in the Brazil squad. But please, let's not make the obvious Pelé comparisons... or maybe we just can't help ourselves!
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Welcome to Unbecontinent, your definitive guide to the week in European football.
I'm Dotton Eribio, I'm Andy Brassel, and I'm Nikki Bandini.
And this edition has Italy for Gossen, what it's like to qualify for a World Cup, and
is Northern Ireland, the team to remind them.
Also, Griezmann's long goodbye will atletee ever be the same without him, and after a flip-flop
season will Hendrix Teenage Kicks see Brazil through the World Cup.
Nikki, it's a day of destiny for Italy.
Of course, most people would consider them to be the favourites against Northern Ireland.
However, I think we ought to learn the phrase, we might cock it up in Italian.
How'd you say that?
Oh, God, probably language I shouldn't use on the football.
Gossen, you just used it, so maybe I don't know.
I don't know.
It's horrible.
I think there's definitely a feeling of exactly as you've just framed it.
It's a situation where everyone knows Italy the favourites.
Nobody's looking at Northern Ireland.
Northern Ireland, who, by all the way, are missing some of their best players, no Conor Bradley.
They're missing some of the players you might look at and think, actually, a player's
they really need in this as well.
Nobody's looking at that and thinking, well, this should be a game that Italy will
but Italy have failed to qualify for consecutive World Cups.
I'm sure nobody's missed that detail.
I think there's a few things to say off that.
The one which I always feel like I repeat is, think about what that means in practical terms.
All of us on this show, we've been around for a few World Cups.
We've seen lots of World Cups.
We know that Italy in the past have been at World Cups and we've watched Italy win World Cup.
But there's a whole generation of younger Italians who basically haven't experienced that.
There's a whole generation of Italian footballers who haven't played in the World Cup.
If you think, for instance, a 20-year-old Italian now, the last time they saw Italy play
in a World Cup was when they were 8 years old, but they even remember it that well.
There's almost 20 years of people who won't have that feeling of Italy being at World Cups.
The expectation, I think, probably feels different from generation to generation.
The fatalism, I think, feels quite oppressive for lots of Italians right now because Italy
were a much better footballing nation than Macedonia four years ago.
There was not a question about that.
They also had almost every shot over 90 minutes against them and they still didn't win.
So I think there's a feeling that, yes, of course, Italy is supposed to win,
but I don't know if there's a feeling that they will win in terms of the fan perception anyway.
The average Italian, do they feel confident Italy are going to get through this?
I don't know. I know lots of Italians who don't.
I think it's the way you framed it to me, Nikki, when we were speaking off air,
the fact that it's not can they win.
We know the answers to that.
It's that this or, indeed, an eventual final of games that are loosable,
not games in which Italy won't be the favourites, but in which they're loosable.
I mean, I saw one of the daily headlines yesterday on Wednesday,
on football, Italia, the English language, Italian football site, which I really enjoy,
was Italy's squad is worth 10 times as much as Northern Ireland or something like that.
And I thought, well, yeah, I knew that, really.
But is that feeling of convincing yourself, isn't it?
And I suppose in that situation, look, I know Giannano Gattuso is not everyone's idea
of the best coach Italy could have.
But all I would ask is, is he maybe one of the better coaches or one of the better personalities
you could have in this moment?
Do you know, I was thinking about this the other day and Gattuso
and whether he's the right appointment, wrong appointment.
I think when he was first appointed to replace Spaletti,
there was a lot of negativity around that appointment.
I think Spaletti was certainly, it felt like at the end of his road with the national team.
And I think a lot of people felt like that should have been brought to a close,
actually, after the Euro's given how, really just emotionally,
how he's in seem to be handling the role particularly well.
He seemed to be struggling to not snap at reporters to flare up and show his
more, I suppose, temperamental side, which maybe you can get away
when you're getting results, but when you're not getting results
and you're lashing out at people, it starts to look a bit out of control.
I think there was a perception that the Euro's never really,
he never really had a grip on things.
So he goes and the thing is, well, I can say all that about Spaletti.
Nobody questions it.
Spaletti's a really good tactician.
He's a great tactical coach who's shown it at the top level over and over again at different clubs.
And so then you've got Gattusa comes in.
He really hasn't shown that he's a great tactician at the top level.
And I think that there are lots of people who were wanting italy in this moment of
what felt like really fundamental need.
They were already behind the eight ball in that qualifying group.
They wanted to see Italy pull the rabbit out of a hat and hire a manager
who was an established great name of coaching
who was going to carry this project forward and get them into the World Cup
and fix everything.
And the reality is finding that person in the middle of a qualifying campaign that's gone sideways
probably very hard to do to get someone to sign up for that.
But certainly Gattusa was not the profile that I think a lot of people were dreaming of.
What he has done is really just do exactly what you would imagine
Janara Gattusa would do and would be as Italy manager.
He has spoken about connection to the shirt of what you're representing,
of what it means to be Italian, of what it means to be at the World Cup.
And I think those things are not without value.
And I think that Gattusa, through his career, in Italian, the phrase is
which means put your face, but it means not back away from your responsibilities.
Basically, it means face up to things.
And I think that he is certainly a person who will do that.
He isn't going to shy away from, no, it should qualify for the World Cup.
We are good enough and we're supposed to.
He isn't going to shy away from wanting to have that responsibility.
I think that he's put that on his players.
And for the most part, they responded pretty well.
I think that they got through all of the qualifying games they were meant to
and won them, even the game against Israel where things went quite badly for a while.
And they had to dig it out in injury time.
They did it.
The only problem is the one time they played a actually good team, Norway,
they got spanked again.
And so I don't think he's fixed anything tactically.
If anything, he's kind of king on to spiletti and ideals, if you were.
But can he get them through emotionally, which is probably the more important part of these two
games, that the proof would be in the pudding, won't it?
But I think that's what you've got to hope.
Yeah, it's surreal for somebody of my generation to even be contemplating that Italy
might not beat Northern Ireland and somewhat decisively, if not in numbers of goals,
but in terms of, you know, play on the pitch.
However, we do know, Andy, that Northern Ireland will give this a proper go,
but not even in the days of George Best, were they able to be Italy with Italy's
tradition that Nicky's talked about, the history.
In my generation, Italy were always in the World Cup and there were always, always,
one of four teams, maybe five, that were likely to win this World Cup.
But we've come a long way.
I wonder how much and Nicky intimated this as well, that because they have not this generation
have not been World Cup qualifiers, that will hamper them, won't it? This is where the nerves come in.
Well, I think that's it. The craziest of all the wild stats that are leading up to this game
is that Italy have not won a knockout game at the World Cup since the 2006 final in Berlin.
I mean, that is, that is incredible, really, isn't it? And so, Nicky was talking about
generations being unused to a good national team. You know, if you're, if you're under 18,
you've not seen it Italy win a knockout game at the World Cup, which you're right,
is absolutely mind-bending done. But I think that is where the sort of juxtaposition of
where Gatuzo lies is. Because on one hand, you can see him as this guy, like, beats the chest and
says, do it for the shirt and all the rest of it. But on the other hand, I think the historical
way is the thing that could weigh them down. And that's what they need to not think about. And it's
okay to say, okay, well, if you're talking about it, it's been a long time since success. A lot of
this generation of players have not been part of the failures. And that's true for some of them,
of course, but not all of them. And I think in a country that's so obsessed with football and
discusses it and lives it in such detail, you can't really completely avoid that. So it's
got to be up to Gatuzo and the coaching team to really shield them. And it's interesting,
what I was talking about with the headline before and like with my cello lippy coming out of,
of course, is part of a far more successful era of an Italian national team football.
And saying, look, if I had to pick anyone out of my team to lead us in this moment,
it would have been Gatuzo. He's the guy. He's me for all intents and purposes in this situation,
which I think is a nice thing to do and is the right thing to do as well. But I think
as far as they can divorce themselves from the pressure, obviously the easier it'll be.
I think it's interesting that Gatuzo had his part as well in choosing not to have the game at
San Ciro where they'd lost that big game against Norway and having it in Bergamo instead,
which is, you know, it can be atmospheric on its day, but it's a smaller, tight stadium.
And the idea that they can take care of business in a less pressureful environment.
I think Gatuzo said in the press conference, I don't want that situation at San Ciro where,
you know, we misplace the past or, you know, turn the ball over and all of a sudden everyone's
on our backs. So he's quite conscious of that. And I think if you drill down into what they've
actually got, and look, I think a good thing about Gatuzo is, as Nicky was saying,
pulling that game away to Israel out of the fire is quite a good example in that whatever you
think of him as a coach, he leans into difficulty. Like he's never really taken an easy job. And
I think his coaching record is sort of reflective of that really, but he doesn't shy away from
like incredibly difficult tasks like, you know, you could look at near mutiny at Napoli,
like trying to get a Milan into the Champions League and didn't quite do it on the final day,
but, you know, how to go at doing it and didn't really think about what that would do to his
reputation or anything like that, even hide, exploit really, but like loads of pressure.
And, you know, it didn't go as it was meant to, but I mean, he was taken on a club that was
desperate to win and hadn't had one for a really long time. So he's not shy at this moment.
And if you can not divorce yourself from his historical context, I don't even know if that's
possible, but I think if you can just look, as Nicky said right at the beginning,
into what they've got in the field, I think in the front half of the field, Nicky,
they are looking as good as they've looked in a really long time in terms of options.
Yeah, just like quickly on the good news, I think, because maybe I oversimplified it,
but I do think that what I was trying to say really is, he's not the coach technically,
you want to outsmart the next best coach in the world and win the World Cup final.
They're not trying to win the World Cup final. They're trying to qualify for the World Cup and
the team is good enough that it should qualify for the World Cup. This is the bit that I will
absolutely not have. And I feel like I keep hearing over and over again, because in 2026,
there's two states of being in football. You're either the goat or your crap. That's it.
There's nothing else like you're either the best thing that's ever happened or your crap.
So whenever I try to talk about Italy, I feel like there's always this social media reaction of
a weekly crap now. Yeah, Italy, a crap compared to 2006, a crap compared to 2002,
they're crap probably even compared to 2020, to be honest with you when they were 2021,
when they won Euro 2020, because they haven't got Bonucci and Barazzali in that back line that
you can call upon and go, you know what, there's something there that's completely reliable,
but they are absolutely not when you compare them to, frankly, the teams that they're up against
in this playoff qualifying section, they absolutely are not compared to lots of teams that go into
the World Cup. They are absolutely not when you consider that they've got Champions League finalists
twice in the last three years, playing for them in defence in midfield at wingback. They're
just not this awful team they're presented as. They are probably in European terms a kind of
upper middle of the road team, frankly, and that's where they belong and that's where they
should qualify, and part of the encouraging things to get to Andy actually was asking me,
is that yes, they've now in a way that they haven't always had in the recent past, they have got
real options upfront, Moise can and Reté, I think it's got nine goals between them through
qualifying, not bad at all, not bad at all as a number, and then on top of that you've got
POS Boise thought, who has been not just making cameos for Inter this season as this
emerging talent, but actually starting games, and frankly, at the weekend against Fiorentina,
I thought he was almost the only one on that Inter team who showed up to the level he should,
he scored their opening goal, and he very nearly scored a winner at the end, and
was denied by David DeHair in a match where Inter, who at club level are at risk of
blowing another league title, and really needed someone to show a bit of nervousness,
I thought POS Boise to show this, they've got three real options upfront, I mean,
again, we don't have to compare with the best ever Italy team, compare with the Italy team
that Andre Antonio Conte had Graziano Pele starting up front, this is better, this is a better
group of players, you have more options and you have more to do with it, so there are things about
this team that are encouraging. I think it's oversimplistic on the Northern Ireland side to say that
I expect Northern Ireland to just park the bus, actually, Northern Ireland don't tend to sit in a
super super low block, they do have play with five defenders, they are going to play defensively,
they are going to, one expects, rely on long bulls, but they're not necessarily a complete
park the bus team in the way they approach games, but they are going to be on the back footing
into Italy and it's going to be a challenge for those strikers to break them down, and I worry
that when I say things, I would jinx Italy horribly, but one thing that I thought was against Sweden
eight years ago, it was two full legs of watching Italy and thinking we could do two more legs and
they will not score, we will be here for another week and they won't score because Italy just
did not seem to have a goal in them at that time at all, against North Macedonia, despite having,
it was, I can't, I haven't checked the numbers, it was at least 20 shots, it might easily
been over 30 shots in that game, there really weren't many of them that felt like they were going to
lead to a goal, so when the North Macedonia finally took a shot at the end of the game and I go,
of course, that went in because Italy weren't going to score again if you gave them a month,
I think this Italy team will score, whether or not they will win is a second question,
but I think this Italy team will score and that feels like something of a form of progress
from the last two teams, so I do think that is a real point. Again, everyone needs to be
serious about who's starting in this team, Bastoni at centre-back, Kalafiori who's playing games
for Arsenal, a midfield of Tonali, Barrella and Locatelli, probably, DeMarco on the wing who's got
15, 16 assists in Serie A, this is not a bad team, it's not, it's not Totti del Piero, Vieri,
it's not Malini Nesta, it's not that, but it's a good football team, it should be more than
good enough and I do think the thing that is encouraging most of all is that point that Andy's
raised, I think they should score goals and you hope they won't have some sort of meltdown,
I hope Northern Ireland obviously hopes they will at the other end of the pitch.
Thank you for bringing in your jinxes into the conversation, but should Italy avoid the calamity
of losing to Northern Ireland, then they face the mighty Bosnia or the mighty Wales.
How much, I mean, will the trepidation increase or will they by then
relax? Well, these are two difficult away games, I don't think there's any doubt about that,
I think Wales under Craig Bellamy are really interesting and remarkably, we talked about that
controlling the environment as good 2-0 wanted to in Bergamo, the kind of city stadium,
if you drive past it or you go up to it or you approach it for a game at the first time,
you think, oh, this is pretty identity kit modern stadium, but you fill it with near 30,000
Wales fans and oh my goodness, you know, the atmosphere is incredible and that's why they play there
and not at the Millennium Stadium as well, despite the size, so that's that's difficult
and then Bosnia are a far improved, they're in a terrible state if you go back
a couple of years and now they're they're looking they're looking better despite
Sergey Barbara as a legend that Steve Cooper has been trying to hamper their hopes
which probably have sort of come back at, but look, I think the difficult thing about that,
the potential final is that this is something where you can't control the environment,
player for player, yes, Italy will be the favourites against either of those teams.
But it's really difficult if they were both at home, of course, as we said that the environment is
something you can sort of have have more of an influence on, but to go away to Wales or Bosnia
and and get a result, even if player for player they should, if they get their place in the
World Cup, they'll have earned it. Just to say, if they don't, because again, even though I've just
made the case of why Italy should win, Italy can lose not that and the worst scenario is that if
you do lose that first game, the two losers are supposed to play a friendly on the day that the
other two are playing their playoff, which has already been christened in Italy as let me give
on it, De La Vergonia, the friendly of shame. So if if you are thinking about what a difficult
game it might be for the actual playoff game, I'm trying to imagine how grim it would be to go and
play that that friendly potentially even in Wales, it could be Wales in Italy in in Cardiff playing
for absolutely nothing, so we'll see. Well, I'm sure Northern Ireland don't want to play in the
friendly of shame either, so we'll see.
Looking for soccer analysis, more knowing than a Carlo Ancelotti eyebrow raise,
with the World Cup around the corner, join me, Max Rochden and the Guardians expert
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I know you both know this. I don't know how much you've been grieving at the loss of a friend of
the programs, and when I say a friend, this hardly, you know, a month goes by without Antoine
Griezmann's name being mentioned, at least once upon a time, and he has now announced,
and it's been talked about, he shouldn't come as a surprise to many people that he is leaving
athletic home of the bridge, and well, that's surprising, but maybe that he's going off to the
MLS, and I know it's a player that we talk about, add infinitum here on the pod, and we have also
predicted this, and we've talked about it as well, but my goodness, doesn't it leave you with a
sense of, you know, dread as to how we're going to miss this player, this mercurial player?
I mean, I was wondering how you'd frame that, Don, that he's leaving athletic home of
the bridge for the second time. The Antoine Griezmann is leaving European football, or that he's
leaving OTC, because it feels like that as well, doesn't it? Look, I think it was never about whether
this move was going to happen, it was about the timing, as David Cartledge said to us last time,
we talked about it on here. MLS has been an aim for him for a while to finish his career.
The way it's been framed in France is that it's a family choice, a choice that is making for his
young family rather than just himself, but I don't think that's right, because while he might have
picked Orlando City, because there's a big Hispanic population and community there, you know,
he could have chosen their lay, if that was the case, because LAFC were interested as well.
But we know that Griezmann has had a really long-term interest in
US sports and US culture, so the fact that he wants to end up there is nothing new. But the
timing is interesting. As David said, they were hoping to get him before the MLS transfer deadline,
which was this week, so they could put him in straight away, but he wanted to stay until summer.
I think really it's an expression of how he feels about Adletico and how Adletico feel about him.
Now, when Adletico won the second leg just about one the tie after the second leg is probably
about a way to put it in it, in the Coppa del Rey semi against Barcelona, everyone was asking
all Adletico's players, all journalists were asking, is Antoine Griezmann going to stay?
You know, no one was asking, God, you nearly blew a four-go lead, but that they're asking is
is Antoine going to play in the final? And they all pretty much to a man said, we really hope so,
but he's earned the right to pick his own exit. And that's reflective of the fact that
what's his club legend is the top scorer of all time. We're 211 goals to date, of course, he could
make that the high watermark even higher by the time he left. But it does feel as if
Griezmann is the guy who's been digging the trenches for ages for Adletico for a decade,
pretty much apart from that little dip at Barcelona. And that he deserves a last little
something, I think. And of course, we could say maybe the Champions League is still a possibility,
although whether it's a realistic possibility, Nikki, maybe you can answer that.
Maybe you're answering more than one word, I don't know. But to me, to me, the real prize for him
is the Copa del Rey final. Against the club where it all started for him, Rao Sothead ad when he
was 14 years old, when he was rejected by Leon, his local club that he supported as a kid because
he was too little. And then he was spotted in a tournament and went over to Spain. And
Spain has been, it's not just Europe, it's Spain, really, that's been the core of his club career.
I remember back when he was at Rao Sothead ad interviewing him preseason. And I'm saying,
I'm so Spanish, he was in his early 20s at this point and he said, I'm so Spanish at this point,
I even speak to my cat in Spanish, which is a nice way to put it. Of course, he's become even
more Spanish since, I suppose, really. So whatever happens between now and the end of the season,
I think he deserves the Copa del Rey as his curtain call because they didn't get the Champions
League over the line in 2016 or any other time. The year since he arrived a year after they won
La Liga in 2014. And when they won it in the Lewis Sparrows, Revenge season, he was off at Barcelona.
So, you know, I don't think you can say after his career, that his club career at Adleti,
that is unfulfilled because of course, it's not. You'll go down as maybe the most important player,
or at least one of the most important players in the history of the club. But a little extra
something for him, I think would be nice and would be deserved. It isn't even funny yet. I was
going to make that same point you just made about the fact that in the Diego Simione era,
they've won two league titles and he's managed to manage to be right after he left to go to Barcelona
and also right before he arrived. And yet you would also look at this era. I mean, obviously,
the numbers say it. He is their top scorer. And I think that he was very reverential actually
about the moment when that happened as well about catching up to Adagon Es and matching him.
There was a real acknowledgement of the club's history. And I think he absolutely
does feel very profoundly that he is an Adletico man, doesn't he? I know that there was
this uncomfortable chapter in the middle. And it wasn't uncomfortable chapter. Things were,
when he came back with Barcelona, the plaque fame was was was vandalised outside the stadium and
people with plastic rats and all sorts going on. So it was, it was a really uncomfortable chapter.
And it wasn't even that when he first came back, he got the full prodigal sun treatment.
The Simione let him be there. Simione was happy to have him back and say, you're here again,
but it did take him time to win the fans over again. But I think what was also true is that he did.
I think he did put in the time with the fans. He didn't expect anything. He didn't
say the wrong things at that point and say, no, you should treat me a certain way.
He earned it. He came back and he worked hard and he even accepted that
incredibly weird chapter when he was on loan. And because they didn't want to trigger his,
his full signing bonus, he'd just playing the ends of games and he didn't say a word and
complain about it. And he gradually rebuilt his form. And I think it's actually kind of
beautiful how he gets to leave with I think most fans adoring him again. I think he earned it.
I think he got back to the place in them in their affections where now when he wants to go and
have a, this, this, this different chapter, no one, I suppose at this age, maybe no one
begrudges him it because they feel like he's, he's not out of his usefulness, but he's no longer
the dominating player that they're going to miss in the same way. But I also think that they
feel like this is a happy ending for everyone, which, which is a nice spot to have got to, even if yes,
there is something, there is something I suppose almost. Perhaps that's even the,
the, the, the part that makes it fair, the part that allows for this reconciliation is, okay,
we'll take you back. We've accepted you. You don't get that league title. We got that without you.
One person who was supposed to light up European football today was the amazing
well. It's still amazing. I think it's fair to say teenager from Brazil,
Zill, andric. People were talking about him long before he arrived over here. He came to play
for your French team, Andy, Leon. You were excited at the time. We're all excited at the time,
but he came for a reason, and it seems that that reason has been fulfilled. However,
I'm not sure if the deal for Brazil ahead of the World Cup was the one they were hoping for.
It's, it's a really strange situation. I think that Andric finds himself in because, of course,
the move to Leon was telegraphed for a couple of months before it happened, as we underlined at
the time. And then with all that build up, he actually delivered from the off. You know, I think
you could tell the global excitement that he was, you know, released from his golden prison at the
Bernabéu and actually got to come and play some games. But the way that he was ready to receive it,
ready to take on that opportunity was really impressive. It was clear that Leon needed someone
exactly like him, a striker who wanted to shoot on site. And look, he played brilliantly from the
beginning, and Leon were riding the crest of a wave. And so is he. And I think he's easy from
the outside to say, well, it was brilliant when he arrived. And now he's in the Brazil squad,
but actually there's a bit in between, which I think is worth examining. Now, obviously, by part
of the reason that he's ended up in the Brazil squad. And look, I think he's done himself a lot of
good in the in the time he's been at Leon and the fact that he's actually been able to get out and
get some reps is something that's really useful and gives Angela your reason to want to pick him.
Of course, that a previous relationship from from from Real Madrid. That the fact that
Hendrik has not been playing centrally. He's been playing on the right hand side for a lot of
the time. He's at Leon. And of course, Rodrigo is injured and out of the World Cup now is his
form of Real Madrid. Well, you could say that current couldn't you, Real Madrid teammate. So
in that sense, all great, but he's not scored in a month and a half. Last time he did score was
in the Cup de France against a relegation. Fret and team in in lead to Laval. So it's been a
while. And there's been a little bit of pushback, really, both from Leon fans and in France in general
about him. Saying that, you know, maybe he's not that team focused for what is worth. I think a lot
of these criticisms are unfair. You're bringing this guy to get shots off. And then when he gets
shots off and not all of them go in, he gets a bit of chip for it. I find that a bit extraordinary,
really. But I think it's easily forgotten in all of this context. He's still only 19 years old.
And of course, he arrived at Leon having barely played Nikki in the first part of the season.
I think there have been points in the last month where he's looked at as if, whoa, you know,
it's a bit like if you've had a heavy dinner and then all of a sudden you've got to run up a
really steep hill. It's quite difficult to make that adjustment from going from zero to a hundred,
isn't it? Yeah, I think the 19 part is so important of it in it. Because again, literally a
teenage, I mean, listen, he probably won't remember it either World Cup or say that for his staff.
I think that what you were just looking to there is really important because I think when you
even hear the reasons people are excited for having him in the national team and what he
represented for the national team is this idea that he was going to be this attacker who had that
range of movement who can connect the play between the midfield and the attack as well, who can
do all those things. And I think in recent times, Andy, it looks exactly like what you've been
saying where he gets someone who wants to shoot with it because because he hasn't scored recently
because he's a teenager and he's anxious and he's trying to impress everybody and he's got the
World Cup looming and he wants to, he wants to get it right. And I think that it's normal that he's
not able to get everything right that he's not necessarily regulating all of his emotions correctly
when, by the way, in some games, he's getting booted left right in the centre by opponents that he's
not managing all of that responsibility. And also where he's gone somewhere and because he started
so well, they've kind of anointed him as the man there right away and expected him to do everything.
I think it's a tremendous amount of pressure he's under. I don't doubt that if you
asked him about it, given how he certainly is eager to play for Brazil, he'd probably say he
wants it and he can handle it and all these things because that's what young people do when they're
trying to prove themselves and they're trying to establish themselves. But it doesn't mean those
things aren't affecting him. And I do think when we look back at that fast start he had, yes, he was
playing really impressively. Yes, the numbers look good for a minute. But three of his four
Lee Hangos came in a single game against Met. Yeah, it was a very bright explosion of everything going
well. It wasn't a sustained proof that you've got the body of work yet. And again, that's not me
trying to criticise him because I think it's just unreasonable to expect a 19 year old to be
perfect all the time. I think it's unreasonable to expect everyone to be perfect all the time. But
especially when you're thrust into the limelight like this. So I do think he's a victim of outside
expectation. But I also think that he's now the way he's playing is different to how he played
when he first got there. And I think that's a situation where he probably needs a bit of help
from coaches and from people around him to say stop trying to do everything. And one thing I will
say is Carlo Antelotti is quite a good coach for that sort of thing and knows him already.
You know, I was exactly going to say just that and even a bit more Brazil. Let's not forget.
Okay, Hendrix, no, no, no, no, 19. But Pele was 17. There is a history of
teenagers coming good that Hendrix for me have dropped. But do you not? First of all, like Nicky said,
Antelotti is no mug and he's not carrying passengers here. And secondly, Brazil
have a history of young, amazing forwards showing up for the welcome. But isn't that kind of the
issue that we're so keen to put him in that bracket? And it goes back to the chat that we're having
about Italy and the weight of historical context really, isn't it? Whereas I think what
Antelotti is so good at doing is like cutting back all that bullshit and like simplifying stuff.
So just taking the drama out of things and whereas I understand from our perspective,
from fans and media perspective, like history is important. Of course it is. But for Hendrix,
I don't think that should be important. Just like for Italy this week, I don't think that should
be important as well. I don't think anyone should be saying to him anything about Pele and
the World Cup. I think it's just like go along, go to the World Cup. If you can contribute off
the bench a couple of times, if indeed he does make the final squad because that's still an if
because how he does, I think, between now and the end of the season that Leon and the sort of
physical Nikki looks in, how does he recover, I think, is really important. What I would say
with Hendrix is I think it is a great option off the bench for Brazil because and not just because
of the injury to Rodrigo, but because, well, Neymar's kind of out of the picture now, which I think
is probably the right thing. We talked to Tim Vickery a lot, don't we? And we know the sort of physical
condition he's in and that he would only be picked really on his name. And I think you need
someone as strong as Carla and she'll like to sort of resist that. But the one thing I would say,
well, Hendrix not been scoring. He's not been playing terribly. And I think his overall contribution
to the games and his ability to try and make stuff happen even from quite big positions where he
wants to dribble the ball. He wants to take on defenders. He wants to use his pace. He wants to
set his team mates up. And in fact, he set up the goal for Pavel Schultz against Monaco at the
weekend. And the two of them link brilliantly together, by the way, all I would say if you look
at what's gone right and what's gone wrong since he's been at Leon, when he first arrives because
of all the media explosion around him and all the excitement around him, people are right to be
excited about him. And the fact that he's come from Real Madrid. I think when Palafon Secre, the
Leon coach said early on, well, we'd love to try and keep him for next year. And people laugh to
know like, yeah, right. There's absolutely no judge. This guy's going to go and rip it up with
Real Madrid next year. But actually, I think Real Madrid have to have a serious think about where
he's going to fit next year. And how are they going to continue to develop him? And who should
continue to develop him? So whether that's Angela, you're international level, whether that's maybe
Palafon Secre at club level, because I think what the last six weeks where he hasn't been scoring
of underlined is going back to what Nikki was saying. The key point is his 19. He's not the finished
article and he shouldn't be. And I think probably the best thing for him. And I know there's
financial imperatives and other things to be considered. I feel that leaving him at Leon for a
year would be a really good thing for him, because he's not the finished article, because he's got
a Lucophone coach and coaching staff, because there's that huge Brazilian influence, Leon and
there's, you know, that connection, that understanding, you know, they've got a full-time
Portuguese interpreter who is about, actually, she's been there for like 15 years now,
something like that, because it's so embedded into the culture of the club. So I think he went
for that move because he thought, this is a club and a city where I can be happy and where I can
start to become an important player. What the last six weeks has made clear is he's not ready to
be that player for Real Madrid yet. And I don't want him to go back there and sit on the bench. I
want us to be in a position where every year in Europe that we can watch him on a weekly basis and
we can talk about him and we can be excited by his performances and that he can continue developing
into the player that his talent dictates that he should be. Having said that, Nicky, can you see him
if Brazil win the World Cup going back to Leon? I mean, this is exactly the problem. What is
about to say is his market position this summer will be defined by the World Cup. If he has a not
particularly high profile World Cup, I think what Andy talks about is very possible and might
well be the best thing for him. But World Cups and international football in general,
they are just a bit weird. We want to apply the same logic to international football that we have
club football where superior tactics and teams always prevail. And it kind of isn't what happens
over a summer tournament. Over a summer tournament, one player having a hot run where they just play
it doesn't even have to be many. It can be three good games can completely transform the world's
perception of them. If those three good games happen to be two knockout games and one group game
even that make a big difference in the team going through, suddenly that can completely change
everyone's idea, especially with forwards. If he scores five or six goals, then he'll have a
completely different market to if he scores one goal or no goals. And it won't be a realistic
difference in who he is, the player, that's just the way the world works and it's just the way the
football works. So it's sort of impossible to predict, I think, what his market's going to be and
whether or not staying in Leon is realistic. Because I think if he has an average World Cup,
and what I would guess the kind of World Cup he's going to have, is it will be possible. But if he
does have a good World Cup, then no, he'll be either going back to Real Madrid or they'll be
cashing in on him at a rate that's probably not sensible for what he's done so far in his career.
Okay, let's look back now at last week's Game of the Week choices. As you probably know,
if you're a regular VOTC, we always recommend some games for you to watch over the weekend. Andy,
last week, you picked Feynord versus Iaxx. You ended up a draw, won't you?
Yeah, and we reviewed it, actually, me and Calam van Oeshoeden from Football International,
the Dutch magazine, discussed it on Monday's OTC, so it's further down on your feed.
Really interesting match, incredibly tense. And yeah, with implications potentially for both
clubs going forward. Yeah, indeed. And Miguel, Nicky, picked Real Madrid versus Atlético Madrid.
It was, you know, the Derby of Derby is in Spain, and it was quite a match.
Yeah, I don't think it wasn't a left field choice by Miguel, but he definitely got a good one,
didn't he, with those, with the game we got. Look, I'm obviously putting Atlético head,
Real Madrid coming back to lead, then Atlético scoring again, and Vinnie Jr, who,
Vinnie's, I was going to say Vinnie's dealt with some criticism, but Vinnie's always dealing
with some criticism, isn't he? And he's always dealing with criticism and then scoring goals
and winning games, as he does. So yeah, really, one of those probably important shows from Real Madrid,
that they're not done in the title race quite yet. And also, I think, a further indication of
really how quickly this club has shifted direction since the first leg of that Man City tie in
the Champions League. Everyone was coming into that game saying, oh, we're not sure they're going to
have a good tie here against Man City. They thumped Man City and all of a sudden since then,
they look back to being swaggering Real Madrid, but don't they? We will follow their progress,
of course, throughout the season. Real Madrid, three, Atlético Madrid, two.
Well, and you can join us again tomorrow where we'll be making our latest selections for
game of the week, and of course, telling you what you should eat with it crucially. Plus,
we'll be answering all of your questions about the latest news from the world of European football.
Do make sure to subscribe in your podcast app so that you never miss an episode. Andy Brassel,
thank you. Thank you. Don't know how to buy it. And thank you, Nicky Baddini.
Thanks, that's him. We'll see you tomorrow.
On the continent is a stack production and part of the ACAST creation network.
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On The Continent - A European Football Podcast

On The Continent - A European Football Podcast

On The Continent - A European Football Podcast