Just war through a Catholic lens: Applying an ancient moral framework to the U.S.–Israel–Iran conflict

We are Faith and Fury, Love and Fire.

This is the Human Equation, where every voice counts and every true cuts deep.

With your host, Joseph Pangar, hello my friends and welcome to the Human Equation, I'm your

host, Joe Pangar.

You know, since our goal here is to talk about all things being a person, I don't think we can

step aside from the conflict going on in Iran without looking at the human side of what's happening.

So we know the political side of what's happening is a nightmare.

We have politicians who are using the situation for political gain, not the gain of the United States.

We are watching politicians side with our enemies because it provides them cover to go against

President Trump, which is huge for them. You know, the Trump derangement syndrome has to be

satisfied at all times. It's one of these never-ending psychological situations that are going

on. And then we have the reality. We can have, we can talk about the religious side of this.

Now, religiously, thou shalt not kill, right? Actually, it's thou shalt not commit murder.

Now, we talked about this recently. The difference between killing another person

and murder is that murder is the intentional elicit inappropriate taking of a human life.

If you protect yourself, someone's attacking you and you protect yourself using force and they

die, that's justifiable homicide. If you are drinking in a barn, you are stupid and getting to

a fistfight and punch a guy and he falls and cracks his head open and dies, that is manslaughter.

That is not murder, even though a human being died. So when we think about the religious implications,

we look and we see, you know, the Ten Commandments, thou shalt not commit murder.

Doesn't say thou shalt not kill, right? Because we know that there's been battles in the Bible where

the good, vanquish evil, we know these things have happened. But I think a lot of people are confused

on exactly what the idea of a just war is. They say, you know, if you're religious,

then you can never engage in a war where people get killed and that's not really true.

Just like the death penalty. Now I'm a Roman Catholic. I think I've told you that before.

And I'm a practicing Roman Catholic. I go to church, I pray to God a lot. I'm trying to get myself

right in the eyes of Jesus so that, you know, when my time comes, I can go to heaven. That's my goal.

That's my goal for me, for my family, for my friends and everybody.

But I do hear people, they'll say to me, well, oh, you're a religious guy. So therefore,

you've got to be against this war completely, which is really just a veiled attempt

for them to say, hey, I'm going to pit you against your religion. And you have got to side

against Trump and this war. And that's why I wanted to talk about this because that's not true.

Right? There is a just war. There's also the death penalty. And the church says, you know,

in general, the death penalty is not appropriate unless, and there's an unless there's caveats,

right? Because the church is not stupid. There are founders of the church, the leaders of the

church, they're not stupid. They understand that there are evil people out there, very, very

bad people. And when it comes to the death penalty, what they say is, if there's nothing else that

can be done to protect society from this evil person who has committed or will commit more violence,

then the death penalty is permitted because you have to protect society, right? Well, the idea

of a just war is the same kind of a situation. Only there are some caveats in there. All right?

So according to the catechism, which is the, the understanding, it's the writings about the

church and it explains the, how the church views things. And so if you're not Catholic, you

never heard of the catechism. But it's been around. It's part of what guides us and helps us to

understand things. So their description, their definition, a just war is often reluctant, defensive

action, permissible only when all peaceful alternatives have failed. And strict conditions

are met to avoid a greater evil. Okay, so there's a lot there. And what do I say all the time?

Anybody who's listened to me, whether it's in my books, my teaching, my lectures, or here on our

show, is that I say words mean things. And if we just look at something on face value, like saying

thou shalt not kill is how people, you know, quote that. But in reality, it's thou shalt not commit

murder. Big difference, right? And that's why we do definitions. You have to understand definitions.

So let's break this down line by line. A just war is often. So therefore often means that it's

not the first time it's ever happened. It is often reluctant. People don't want to go into it.

Okay, so that's one of the first things. You know, so when I look at that,

it says to me that if you are running around constantly looking for a reason to have a war,

then that is not reluctant. And therefore, it wouldn't meet the definition. See how this

kind of put this together? And so it is often reluctant, defensive action. And so it's a defensive

action. So in other words, if someone is attacking America, then we have a right to fight back.

It's okay to get into war to fight back reluctantly, but we do it because it's a defensive action.

Now we'll put this all in perspective with the Iranian conflict in a minute.

It's a defensive action permissible only when all peaceful alternatives have failed.

All right, so it's been done often. So it's not the first time. There is criteria that you can meet.

It's a defensive action permissible when all peaceful alternatives have failed. So what does

that mean? Let's break that line down. All peaceful alternatives. Well, I guess the most

peaceful alternative would be to surrender. Wouldn't it? Just be to surrender to your enemy.

That's peaceful. We're not fighting. I'm not throwing a knife. We're not throwing a bomb. I'm not

shooting a gun. Nothing. Very peaceful. Is that a reality? You know, no, because then you are not

defending yourself and you have a right to defend yourself. You don't have to just be slaughtered.

See, so we're only two lines in and already there's lots to think about here to see if we're on

the right path. So a just war is often reluctant. A defensive action permissible only when all peaceful

alternatives have failed and strict conditions are met to avoid a greater evil. All right, so that's

there's a whole second part of the paragraph. We're just working on the first part. So all peaceful

alternatives. What does that mean? Does that mean engaging your enemy in conversation?

Does that mean engaging your enemy in negotiations on how to deal with whatever the

whatever the conflict is about? Can you work it out? Okay, so if we look at Ukraine and Russia,

the Russians want that territory. The Ukrainians don't want any of their territory taken. So

do they engage in, do they engage in talks about that? Do they negotiations? Well,

should they negotiate the loss of their country for no reason? If they had attacked Russia,

you know, that's one that's one canon of war. And I don't mean canon boom, I mean canon like

rule of war. That if you start a conflict and you end up losing, well, to the victor goes to

spoils. So if you start a war, a conflict, and you lose, and in the course of you losing,

my army moves on to your land, we get to keep that land because you started it. That's the penalty

to you for starting a war. And it's accepted pretty much, it's accepted around the world.

So if we look at the wars against Israel, the wars against Israel since 1948, we saw

different armies attack Israel. And Israel fought back the Egyptians, fought back.

And they attacked Israel and Israel defended itself appropriately. And it was stronger,

and it beat back the Egyptians, and therefore it took the Sinai Desert.

That is now Israeli territory because the Egyptians started the war and lost. We look at the

Golan Heights, the Syrians. And now I don't have all the players exactly right, but I know in general,

in the Golan Heights, the Syrians, and several other Arab armies attacked Israel again,

inappropriately. They acted defensively, and they kept the Golan Heights, right? These are how

these things happen. So we're talking about peaceful alternatives. What's a peaceful alternative? Okay,

you can have this piece of land, and the war will stop. When we saw Israel fighting with Hamas,

and the concern was that they wanted a homeland. So what did Israel do in 2006?

They said, okay, we will leave the Gaza Strip, and you can control it. Hamas and the Palestinian

people, you can control the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. Those are yours now. You govern them,

and the Israelis not only left the army left, but they took all their settlements. They took all

their people. They even took their graveyards and got out of there and turned that land over.

Now, was that a negotiation? Yes. Was it to prevent a bigger war and to have peace? Yes,

so the Israelis made a decision to give up some territory that they didn't have to give up,

but they did it as an aim towards peace. And did that result in peace? No. What did Hamas do when

they were elected? They're a terrorist organization. They elected to spend all the billions of

dollars that the world sent to them to turn their land into a paradise. They decided to build

terror tunnels and buy missiles and bombs and attack Israeli civilians and military.

Again, the Israelis are attacked. Once you know, you understand the definition of a

just war. Now you can start to compare facts to it. That's how you use a definition. Let's finish

with this. When all peaceful alternatives have failed, so that can be negotiating, that can be

giving in. That can be anything that works towards trying to solve the problem without fighting.

Have you done all you could? All right. And then the last part of this part of the paragraph

and have failed and strict conditions are met to avoid a greater evil. So what would be a

greater evil? So let's start out with the concept that we are reluctantly going to have to do

this battle. It's a defensive action because we are threatened, right? Our people are threatened.

We've tried to negotiate and to talk and to work out the problem. And that has failed. Our enemy

is still threatening us. So we have to have strict conditions, though, in our response for a

just war to avoid a greater evil. So now we have to ask what would that be? What would the greater

evil be? Now as I'm saying this, I want you to compare both sides of any of the conflicts I'm

talking about. All right. I'm not talking about any one particular conflict until we get to Iran

and the United States. But until then, think about every other conflict that you can think of.

All right. So let's look at this. And the efforts have failed and strict conditions have to be met

to avoid a greater what would that greater evil be? That would be bombing civilian targets

purposely. That would be firing missiles into a community that have cluster bomb effects where

it's very indiscriminate that the missile coming down can't be shot down. Well, it can't be shot

down. But if it's if you miss it and it comes down now, it deploys 10, 12, 15, 18 smaller bombs

that go in many directions, often hitting civilian infrastructure, civilians, clusters of people.

It's a cluster bomb. That's why most countries have backed out of using cluster bombs

because it is so indiscriminate. So that would be avoiding a greater evil. How about lining up

civilians and gunning them down if you capture them in this war? Would that be a greater evil

than simply beating back your enemy's military and wiping out their leadership so that the war

comes to an end? Isn't that a defensive position to wipe out the other team's leadership, wipe

out their equipment, and then they come to the table to negotiate? So that kind of matches all

those things in the initial part of what is a just war. All right. So now there's a second part

of this paragraph. It requires a grave certain and lasting threat. All right. So this is

what you have to have common at you. So the first part tells you what you should be doing.

This is now defining how do you determine if this is bad enough for us to have a just war?

It requires a grave certain and lasting threat. You have to have rightful authority to respond.

You have to have a reasonable chance of success and you have to employ proportionality where the

damage inflicted does not exceed the evil that's eliminated. Okay. So let's look at that again.

It requires a grave certain and lasting threat, rightful authority, reasonable chance of success,

and proportionality where the damage inflicted does not exceed the evil eliminated. So let's

break those things down. All right. A grave certain and lasting threat that Nazis have declared

war on your nation. Is that a grave threat? Is that certain? It is a lasting threat.

Do you have the rightful authority to respond? Is there a reasonable chance of success? Now that's

an interesting one. If you don't think you can fight back, should you then just surrender? So that's

an interesting line that's in here. You have to have a reasonable chance of success for it to be a

just war. I find that interesting. Proportionality, I can see that where you go in and you fight

the military and the leadership of those who are coming after you and you knock them down to the

point that they have to stop. That they have to stop. They can no longer wage war against you.

You don't just then run through and carpet bomb all of their civilian population centers,

their airports, everything, all their infrastructure, and knock them back to the Stone Age. That wouldn't

be proportional. And it has to be where the damage inflicted does not exceed the evil that's

eliminated. All right. So now we have this full definition. All right. We have the full definition

and when you compare it, any time you get a definition of anything, we have to compare it now with

a circumstance so that it makes sense, right? Makes sense. So when I do a program on people in

crisis, how to handle people in crisis and de-escalation, one of the first things I do is define what

is a crisis. I had a crisis is a turning point in someone's life. It is when they're they're

expected to have to deal with consequences. It's when things are out of their control, right?

And then you say, well, those are just words, but then you put a situation up against the

definition and it becomes clear. So say your wife comes to you and says, I want a divorce

and this hit you out of the blue. You had no idea. I've been having an affair and I want a divorce

now that is a turning point in your life that you can you can find yourself in crisis there, right?

Maybe maybe you got involved in something at work in business and it was a little shady and now

you got caught and you might go to jail. All right. That's when consequences can be faced, right? So

you might be into crisis. So that's how you take a definition, which is is kind of like almost

like a framework and then you apply situations to it to see if it matches. So here we are with a

just war. All right. There's more definitions here that I'll run through these real quick

because there's also conduct within a war during the war and then we'll go and we'll apply the

Iranian-American conflict to it and see where we are here. So a just cause. The war must be

defensive aimed at protecting innocent life or essential rights against the last engrave and certain

danger. Okay. So the Iranians subjugate their own people first of all. They control their own

people. It is a barbaric system of Sharia law that they have in place there. Okay. Well that's

bad enough because they're doing that to their own people. That makes it incumbent on the people

then to rise up like our forefathers did and fight back for your own freedom. Our people did that

and died and in the struggle we won and we created the greatest country the world has ever known.

But so the Iranians, they're bothering their own people. Are they threatening us?

Are they threatening the United States and Israel? Well I think the answer to that if you're not

suffering Trump derangement syndrome is pretty clear. Of course they're suffering. Of course they're

threatening us. They've been threatening us since 1979 when they stormed our embassy and took our

people hostage and all the proxies that they pay out there they give money to to attack American

interests and kill American personnel and do all the evil things that they do all around the world

in the name of terrorism to create their Islamic caliphate. That's what they're out there trying to do

and that's that's their purpose right but they're definitely absolutely attempting to take innocent

life of Americans and other people right so that would be the just cause part. Legitimate authority

the decision must be made by those entrusted with the common good not private groups or individuals

right not one person or one group can say we think they should go to war you have to have

authority so in our case it's the American government duly elected representatives of the people

see this and that's that's in the form of the president of the United States who is specifically

constitutionally charged with protecting the American people so yeah legal authority

last resort all other means of peaceful resolution diplomacy negotiation sanctions have shown

to be ineffective have we done that with Iran have we shown diplomacy have we tried to send

diplomats have we tried to come up with deals have we tried to come up with negotiations with them

have we put sanctions on them does that stop them from doing their evil and attacking and trying

to build a nuclear bomb that they would no doubt drop on the head of many western countries

Israel and the United States and Europe does no doubt about it and if you don't see that I have to

say and I hate saying it like this because I don't mean to sound like this but if you don't see

the threat that they are then you're either stupid or you're purposely not seeing it because

politically you don't want to see it every president for the past five presidents has said

Iran cannot have a nuclear war a nuclear weapon they cannot have it we cannot allow it

Trump is the only one who has not kicked the can down the road because they are not 10 years away

from getting a bomb or seven years away from creating a nuclear bomb they were weeks weeks away

from creating a nuclear bomb which would change the power structure in the entire world

right so now you start to see is this start to match some of these is this a grave threat yes it is

nuclear bomb is in the hands of bloodthirsty psychotic religious-based leadership whose religion

tells them they are to take over the world by the sword if you don't voluntarily give in

so you start to put these all together you wow it's getting a little closer

all right next one down is last resort all other peaceful means well we just covered that

all of those things have failed good intention the aim must be to ultimately achieve peace and

justice not to satisfy vengeance territorial greed or inflict punishment okay so let's break that

down it should be to achieve peace and if we look at this if the Iranians had stopped and said okay

we're going to give up our nuclear weapons the inspectors can come in whenever they want not

when they show up go no you can't come today come back in three months no you can't come today

but you can go look at this place they were hiding they were lying they were dancing around

they were not intending in any way shape or form to not get a nuclear weapon and threaten the

world with it all right so ours is to have peace not just for us but for the Middle East for Europe

for the whole world America is taking on the responsibility once again to protect the world

from destruction all right it can also not be just for revenge you know what they did to us in 79

they blew up our barracks in Lebanon their their proxies they did this oh we're going to get them back

okay this is not that this is putting an end to it we have been patient we have negotiate we

have talked we have begged we have sent pallets full of money we have done sanctions we've done

everything and they are not stopping there are relentless evil that at some point

good must deal with and that's what we're doing all right so good intention is correct and it's

not to just inflict punishment on them the proportionality the probability of success the use of

arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated and there must be a

reasonable hope of success so is there a hope that we can win yet of course there is could we win

faster if we send troops in yes but we would also then be starting a bigger different kind of conflict

that nobody wants right now nobody wants that nobody wants our soldiers men and women on the ground

in around dying in house to house fighting we don't want that but is there a pretty good chance

we're going to win if we keep doing what we're doing yes we keep flying around with absolutely

no restrictions and every time they light up a rocket we see it and blow up the launcher eventually

they run out of launchers when the people come forward and give intelligence to to the undercover

and the people out of there because you know they're there and they start to tell them where the

evil leaders are meeting where the equipment is hidden where the IGRC stuff is and we knock all

it out yes our chances of getting ahead are are very very strong so when we look at all of these

conditions for a just war and the definition of a just war this clearly meets every one of those

standards of the Catholic Church now you might not be a Catholic you might not be a Christian you

might not be a Muslim you might not be a Hindu you might not be any of the other kind of religion

there you might be an atheist and you say I don't care I don't like war I don't like war okay

nobody likes war nobody wants war is war is ugly war is horrible but just like in real human life

there are often times that when evil comes after you you have no choice but to fight back

well strike that let's let you know you can give in to evil you can let evil take you over

the Ukrainians can drop their weapons and come out and let Russia take over the whole country

and take over Europe Europe can just give up let Russia rebuild its Soviet empire

in the Middle East Israel can put down its weapons leave the country of Israel and scatter

themselves across the globe once again they could do that the United States could allow Iran to

get weapons threaten us and then blow us up one day we could we could do all that

but we're not going to do that that would be utter foolishness stupidity and something that I

can't even imagine when evil comes after you there's a time you have to stand up and fight back

President Trump happens to be the man in the office at this particular time with the guts

and the decision to do it whether you like war or not these are all for good reasons and we

should all back our president we'll be back in a minute we'll see what else we're going to talk

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offer grow food not fear all right my friends welcome back to the human equation so by now

i'm sure some of you are considering what we're talking about some of you have jumped on your own

computers and you're looking up these definitions of a just war you're looking up the things that i've

said to you and i think that's good because i'm not here to tell you what to think i'm here to

offer some things to think about and then you can go and decide that's some you want to think about

you know something you want to do do you want to do you want to look at things as they are or as

you want them to be because that is going to determine how you see facts right what's the saying

to someone who doesn't want to know the truth all the facts in the world don't matter

right and that's don't we see that a lot we see a lot of that we see political correctness which

tells us you have to ignore facts to achieve an outcome right the outcome we want it doesn't

match it's not right that we have to really bend rules we have to bend reality

uh but we want the outcome we want so therefore we will ignore truth and we will

get aimed to get what we want so we're talking about the concept of a just war and while i am looking

at the Catholic Church definition because that's what i am Catholic i think just like the 10

commandments whether you're an atheist or a religious believer of any kind of religion when you

look at the things that the 10 commandments tell us if you took religion away from them and just

said are these a good set of rules to live by for a a functioning uh society that interacts with

itself appropriately that is fair and has justice you'd have to say yes you'd have to say yes

because they're they're basic rules for good human interaction they happen to be based

in religious form but you know take them away don't don't don't um don't bear false witness against

your neighbor okay that's one of the 10 commandments isn't that a good thing no don't lie about your

neighbor don't testify don't make up stuff about your about your neighbor like say say you're

in a political party uh right uh don't bear false witness that would be like saying um you know

oh trump colluded with the russians uh and i have proof of it i have i have the smoking gun

proof who's now who said that oh yeah adam shift congressman adam shift came out as he was part

of the committee and he had absolute proof that trump colluded with russia to steal the election in

2016 well do do we find out that that's true or is that untrue well we have found out in the course

of time that it is untrue he did not have smoking gun proof because trump did not collude with russia

he was lying he was bearing false witness against another person in the face of everyone

and that is the wouldn't be a good thing if he didn't well if you're a political nut if you're a

if you're a biased individual and you say i don't care what we have to do as long as we get trump

lie about him cheat him whatever we got to do then again you know my exercise for all of you

that think like this is go run and look in the bathroom look in your eyes and say to yourself

why am i such an evil person that i would say that this is okay instead of doing that why don't you

come up with better ideas for how things could go in our country present them in a way that people

can understand them make sense and will actually work and then you know what everybody would vote

for you and then you would be in power but instead we don't do that our political class and i'm not

saying one side versus the other because both sides do it granted our friends on the left do it

as a the modern incarnation of their party does it in every opportunity doesn't matter what it is they

do it in every opportunity um but both sides do it both politicians lie to get things done you

ever noticed they don't answer a question uh were you at the party yesterday yes or no you know when

it comes to celebrations no one's bigger on celebrations than me and i believe that serving

food at celebrations isn't for they go on and on and on for 20 minutes they never answered a

question it's fairly very simple were you at the party or not yes i was no i wasn't all right so

when we look at the ten commandments through the eyes of the Catholic Church uh you can see that

take away religion they're good ideas to live by so while we're looking at the idea of a just war

here and i'm looking at it through the eyes of the Catholic Church i think these things make sense

whether you're an atheist or a Hindu or a Jew or a Muslim they all kind of make sense

because they are common sense policy they are common sense thoughts of how to interact so

we left off uh you know what is it just war and we were comparing the Iranians and the conflict

with the United States and with um with Israel so when we look at those um when we look at those

ideas of what a just war provides we know that the Iranians what are they doing they're killing

their own civilians so the question here then is is that good or is that evil well i would hope

that you would say that's evil why are they killing civilians in the street now the reports are

up to 30,000 35,000 people protesters who are against the maniacal uh islamist government that

wants to control their lives do you think that killing those civilians in the street that are

protesting that is right or wrong well if you think it's wrong then that's to me that's kind

of common sense decent way of looking at it if you say uh it's right then run to that mirror and

take a look as you are an evil person but you're the same person that would turn around and say

they killed 30,000 people and they're just trying to maintain their power and they're the legitimate

government and they hate Trump too so i'm for them but then you turn around and look at Minnesota where

two individuals who were killed by government action ISIS government entity by uh government entity

and you'd say the entire government is wrong the whole government should be brought down

well you don't say that about the iranians how come because if the iranians fall then Trump

looks good and you can't have that so it's better there be 30,000 dead people in the streets of

Iran than for you to say Trump's doing the right thing and while war is difficult and horrible

and ugly sometimes it is necessary and Trump is doing the right thing he's not kicking it down the

road for other generations to have to deal with okay so i'm just trying to make common sense here

out of these things all right so what will we talking about we're uh we're going down the road

here i'm going to say what are what are what is conduct within a just war what could you do so

some of the definitions they gave us is it has to be proportional right you have to have legitimate

authority if they've just caused to do it it has to be a uh ongoing grave danger that you can't

solve any other way and then you can go to war all right so what happens once that war starts

once the war begins what should you do okay so should you should you use civilians as shields

should you take your weapons your ammunition all of those things and should you store them

in buildings where children go to school should you store them in hospitals where injured people

are brought so they can get medical care should you fire your rockets against the civilian

populations of your enemy from the rooftops or the surrounding parking lots of schools where children

go and where you store your ammunition and weapons should you do that is that right or wrong

it's another question let's is that right or wrong should you do that you're a military of a foreign

country and you are going to fight your neighbor should you use your people as human shields

so that when the enemy fires back at you for shooting at them and hits the building where you've

been shooting from or housing your ammunition some of your civilians are going to be killed and then

you can parade their dead bodies around and say look what our enemy did hit a school look what our

enemy did hit a hospital do you think that's appropriate what do you think you should keep your

military on a military base and fight military to military and leave the civilians out of it

right okay it's an easy answer i'm giving you a minute to think about it the right thing to do

would be not to store your munitions in schools hospitals and religious facilities where you're going

to then proactively attack your enemy so that when your enemy fires back they kill innocent civilians

that's your fault for doing that right and you're doing it purposefully so that you can show dead

bodies of your people and blame your enemy who would do that well israel israel does that no israel

does not do that do they the United States does that no United States doesn't do that who does that

oh Hamas does that Iran does that oh i see that's who's doing that so for everyone marching around

who says oh israel is so bad so horrible just wants to kill people kill innocent people

it's not true and you're making things up now does that mean that there is not collateral damage

there is collateral damage is some of the saddest and most horrific

parts of any kind of an armed conflict between countries when innocent civilians

are accidentally involved in the combat that i can't think of anything that's worth

whether it be a a a family from from gaza a palestinian family or a child or anyone

that's a a civilian that gets caught up in the military conflict that's horrible it's a terrible

loss of life it's painful for all of humanity when that happens and it should be avoided

at all costs but we have to look honestly not just because you hate Trump and therefore the

palestinians are good because you hate to choose and therefore the palestinians are good

you have to look at the real real conflict right the real conflict it's one thing to say

they're going to fight back military to military okay there's a there's a there's a

just theory the just theory of the war should you start the war you know look at all our criterion

i just hate to choose i want to blow them up and get them out of Israel because i think it's my land

if that's your legitimate position okay you take that position you fight military to military

you start attacking civilians you start attacking crossing a border and killing 1200 people at a

concert murdering raping destroyer killing babies and women and children when you're looking

in that mirror if you're saying that that was legitimate you are evil my friend you are

evil and bad okay i get a conflict legitimate conflict between two governments that disagree

on a border or disagree on something going on there's right conflicts and wrong conflicts

killing civilians purposely the Israelis don't do that they do not do that purposely okay so let's

look at some of the conflicts during the combat non combat and immunity civilians prisoners

are wars and the wounded must be treated humanely and never targeted that seems pretty deep let's

look at that civilians these are people who are not in the military prisoners of war of either side

and the wounded must be treated humanely and never targeted now doesn't that make sense

now some people can argue with the prisoners of war okay if you have 20,000 prisoners in a prison

camp and you captured them on the battlefield and you know the minute you let them go they're going

to get pick up weapons and start killing your people you could maybe i don't know that i would

but you could maybe make a case that hey wiping them out would prevent them from coming back would

that be justifiable are they do they go to the go to the um go to the definitions do they pose a

direct threat is it there anything you can do to talk them out of it is there any way you can

negotiate with them not to come back and fight with you now the problem with that is targeting people

without weapons in their hands that are stuck inside a building not of their own choosing right it's

not like the Iranian command getting together to have a meeting to figure out how to blow you up

and boss them in New York but these are prisoners that have they can't escape they can't leave they

can't change your mind and you blow that up i'm gonna say that's not right that's probably not the

thing to do you have to find an alternative to doing that keep them in prison put them on a

prison ship keep them off the battlefield yeah that's probably a better it's probably a better way

to go right so we can talk our way through it so let's look and see when Hamas is going to run over

to the little villages uh in Israel when they're going to attack a concert of thousands of young

people just trying to enjoy their lives when they're going to take little babies and mothers and

fathers and gun them down in their own homes burn their homes that cut their heads rape them

when they're going to do that um does that meet that criteria that non combatants civilians should

never be targeted no it doesn't it doesn't um did they did they launch uh some kind of uh an

aerial device uh before their attack that dropped thousands of leaflets in those little villages

that say hey we hate you and we're gonna come and attack you at six o'clock in the morning uh so

you want to be out of the area when we get there do they do that does Hamas do that does Hasbola do

that does Iran do that no they don't who does that who who would give notice that they're going to

attack a particular area in the middle of a conflict who does that oh yeah the Israelis do that

they drop leaflets that tell people we're going to be attacking this area because there's a

military asset in the middle of your schools and and uh religious facilities and we're attacking

it tomorrow at 10 o'clock you should be out of here so you don't get hurt isn't that

following that uh concept of non combatant immunity they must never be targeted you're giving

them time to get out of there so you can attack the military target who does that israel does that

you know the people you hate you know they do that uh interesting uh what's another one prohibition

prohibition of indiscriminate destruction any act of war aim that the total destruction of cities

or vast areas is considered a crime against god and man okay so this would be the um the carpet

bombing of the community once the Iranian government is out of control completely and then we're

going to teach them a lesson we're going to carpet bomb everything to destroy their civilization

and wipe out their city now this tells you right here that's a crime against god and man now that's

a religious kind of a look at it but even if you're not religious isn't that terrible so let's say

let's say your enemy your enemy has um an infrastructure that provides their country with funds with

money so that they can take care of their people feed their people uh pay for their infrastructure

water housing all that kind of stuff say you have something like that and for no reason other than

to punish you or to do uh some other negative attack an indiscriminate destruction because you can

like say i don't know wiping out the Iranian oil fields wiping out the one asset that provides

that country with income with which could be used to take care of its people now here we are the

Americans fighting clearly a just war against the Iranian mullahs and the Iranian regime that's there

that threatens the whole world the particular American and uh Israel and they are going in wiping out

military targets they are wiping out military infrastructure they are wiping out military

equipment they are wiping out the military personnel and the leadership the purpose being to

render them peaceful so that they can't hurt them their own people or anyone else in the world now

here's the entire infrastructure that could pay for that country to rebuild in a better way to

survive to provide food medicine everything else that country needs it's their sole source of

income pretty much and has Donald Trump gone over there and wiped it all out because they're still

pushing oil out right they're still selling oil even though they're not supposed to they're still

getting money for their battle and has Trump and the American army decided to go over and just

level it so they have nothing then you starve them out you destroy it but wouldn't that wouldn't

that hurt the general population as well so we're not doing it are we threatening it we are

we are now what's the purpose of threatening it the purpose of threatening it is so that the people

are enraged not at the United States but at their own government that already subjugates them

and keeps them down and attacks them and murders them because if that infrastructure is destroyed

they will have no income after the evil regime is removed now is there come a time when you may

have to do that then it becomes a legitimate target of war yes yes it does because when we look

at the battle against evil proportionality and the just war theory certainly can be ratcheted up

based on what why would you ratchet up and include things that weren't included before in your

attack plan well very clearly it is based on the response of the evil government that you're fighting

if they do not can if they continue to shoot missiles cluster bombs into civilian populations

if they continue to attack the ships that are trying to move supplies through through the waterways

with the purpose of shutting down the governments and impoverishing the whole world that you're

fighting against now at some point you need to up the ante to bring it to an end for what purpose

go back to the just war to create peace now that that doesn't seem like that's that sounds counterintuitive

but let's look at some of the horrors that happened in world war two and why they were undertaken

so here we had the Japanese imperial government attacking the world raping destroying

burning and taking over they attacked the United States they did horrific things to our soldiers

they that have been documented they did horrific things as part of the Axis powers the Germans had

done the same thing they attacked the Jewish population they attacked cities destroyed burned

everything and at some point there's a concept that you whether you like it or not if it's not

within your grasp then you have to understand you have to try and think harder is you have to

sometimes break the will of the enemy you have to make them so tired of fighting that they give up

or surrender so therefore there are times when you may have to take actions abhorrent as they are

but will eventually bring peace because they are so destructive that means you go after infrastructure

because the people need to rise up against the government that's that's there and tell them

to stop even if it means they're on debt that's what you have to do you want to stop this war right

against human nature to run into guns I get it that's why the Iranian people are not pouring out

into the streets to find the IGRC because they don't have any weapons and the IGRC will murder them

as they've shown us they will do so it's kind of understandable they're afraid to run into the street

but they might come a point that they better decide that you know they may have to do that every

people to to get its freedom must at some point sacrifice lots of people that's that's part of the

you know the the blood of the fruit of liberty tree you know and all that that's what these concepts

where they come from so when we look at this and we say what about the fire bombing of Dresden

horrible horrible thing to fire bomb population centers the purpose being to break the will of the

people to fight anymore to stop them dropping nuclear bombs on Japan to break the will of the

people who would die to the last man and woman in the battle so if our troops had gone to the main

islands of Japan to fight we would have lost a million more Americans many of you sitting out

there listening right now may not be here because your grandfather would have got killed fighting

in Japan but instead we used overwhelming power to break their will to show them it is fruitless

to continue you should stop this battle right and we dropped a nuclear bomb horrific terrible

but unfortunately in the battle against evil sometimes you have to take it take it as far as you

possibly can to win it's either that or you allow evil to vanquish you and in either case

it's not good so there comes a point when we have to fight back and what we're doing right now

is fighting back not because there's 10 years until they could hurt us you know three weeks ago

into negotiations that our president was having with the Iranians their delegation told us that

they had enough material to make 12 nuclear bombs within a couple of weeks that's not 10 years from

now that's not 15 years and that's not some nebulous day in the future when they maybe might be

able to get us they were talking two weeks and if you don't think if they could have put it together

in two weeks they would have then again I can only come to the conclusion that you're either stupid

or you're purposely not seeing the truth because you have trump derangement syndrome

if this was Barack Obama doing this if he had the guts to do this you'd be in support of it you know

you would have Biden had done it you'd be in support of it but trump's doing it therefore you

have got to be against it again run to that mirror don't walk run whatever you have to do and

open your eyes and look in there and go why why do why do why do I suffer from this this trump

derangement syndrome let me look and see would would we would we the whole world with the whole world

be better if the tyrannical Islamic government of Iran is removed would their people be better off

would their neighbors be better off would israeli be better off would the united states be better off

well how can you not say yes because again stunad or you don't want to see the truth or I guess

the third term is that you're evil and you believe in that kind of thing all right so when we look

at all of these kind of conflicts is it a just war is it not a just war is it good to fight not

good to fight now nobody wants any Americans to die I don't want any of these beloved men and

women who volunteered to protect us to die on a battlefield nobody wants to lose their child

their mother their father sister brother nobody wants that to happen it's unfortunate that there's

evil in the world and because there's evil in the world at some point you have got to fight the

evil and the men and women of our military are amazing human beings who volunteered to protect us

so therefore we should support them in every single way whether you agree with the conflict or not

you should support the military and for all our Vietnam veterans out there hey welcome home

right why do I say that because we didn't welcome them when they came back it's another time we

made a big mistake like that all right my friends think about it pray on it we cannot allow

an evil dangerous country to have a nuclear bomb and threaten all of us because you know they will

use it we'll see you down the road think about it