Katie Harris of the Road Chose Me on Blending Human and Vehicle- Powered Adventures

Hello and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast.

I'm your host Ashley Dredano, today I'm joined by Katie Harris from The Road Chows Me.

Thank you so much for joining me here in Nelson BC Katie.

Oh, it's such a pleasure, thank you for having me.

Yay!

So, as I said, The Road Chows Me, so you and Dan Greck have been traveling together for

a while, and he's been on this podcast before, talking about all his different travels.

So many of you may not know that Katie has been along for the ride too.

Yeah, Australia, Iceland, Tunisia, parts of Europe, anything I'm missing, I think that's

pretty good.

Yeah, certainly.

Yeah, awesome.

Cool, so I wanted to start chatting with you about your pre-overlanding life.

Because before you met Dan, you did all these incredible activities on your own, and

then came into this sort of industry and lifestyle learning all about vehicle travel.

So yeah, tell me a little bit about your pre-overland life, like pre-overland experience, for sure.

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Yeah, and we live, yeah, we're in Nelson, BC, which is a super outdoorsy town, and that

was part of what drew me here.

For sure, it's the mountains, and we're beside this big lake, and there's lots of great

rivers, and tons of backpacking and backcountry experiences that are possible, opportunities.

Yeah, so before I met Dan, I still work, but I would try and go away as much as I can.

So I've paddled the wind river up in the Yukon, which took two and a half weeks, and I'd

love paddling, being on the water, and love backpacking, so, like, did the Anapurna

circuit and the pool, which was great, and so always kind of just looking for opportunities

to get it out, and we're so close to so many amazing, great hikes and backpacking things,

and I love sea touring.

That's the number one reason why I moved here is because I love this snow, and I love

being up in the mountains.

And so that was a huge thing, like Dan and I connected on that first tea, so with the

Yukon, and so we really talked about the Yukon, and just all of those backcountry experiences

that we had in common.

And so, yeah, overlanding was a big transition, because you also can't bring as many toys

when you go overlanding.

You can't bring, like, five pairs of skis, and canoe, and raft, and all your backpacks,

although I tried.

We've had a lot of start to Australia, but yeah, so that was something that we really

connected on, and that was also kind of how Dan sold me on overlanding, because that's

always a bit of history, is that, you know, he got into overlanding because he loved hiking,

and that was part of one of the ways that he ended up getting into overlanding was just

the journey to the trailhead, right?

Yeah, there are lots of similarities too, because some places you need to look into, how

are you going to get to the places where you need to go?

Yeah.

You know, maybe you need to download some tracks or do some research with maps, or figure

out where you're going to camp, and how you're going to, you can only bring a certain amount

of stuff with you, so I can see how those skills that you had from all the things translated

totally, very, like, transferable.

Yeah, like packing for crossing the Simpson desert was great.

I was like, I've packed for lots of multi-day canoe trips, like, I kind of already had a

sense of, like, what was going to bruise in the back of the Jeep, and like, what kind of

meals could we make after we run out of our fridge space, right?

Because you are going to have to pack two weeks worth of food, you can't always put two

weeks of food in your fridge, but some things keep really well, not in fridge.

I love that so much, how that all kind of works together.

Yeah, yeah.

That's cool.

I felt like I could bring something too far over Lennie, because he brings a lot, obviously.

Totally.

Yeah, it was nice to be able to, like, I have a few skills that will come and come in

and, like, map reading and all that stuff, so that was, yeah, that was handy, I guess.

Yeah, yeah.

And then you would have also, I'm assuming, been able to bring some things that maybe

you wouldn't be able to on, sort of, like, a human-powered adventure.

Oh, yeah.

Like, when Dan described what a swag was to me the first time, and I was like, we get to

bring pillows?

Like, each of us gets, like, a real pillow, and, like, bedding, like, it was really confused.

Um, I think sometimes when people get into a landing, it's, like, really about roughing

it, and, but for me, it felt, the opposite.

You know, it was, like, I get to bring an immersion blender, like, it was really, we

did not bring an immersion blender when we were in Australia, but we did bring one when

we were in Europe, which was actually very useful.

So, um, yeah, that was also kind of a funny, yeah, funny realization and funny transition

for me, as well.

Yeah.

So many transferable skills that can go both ways, I love that, for sure.

Uh, the ski touring, like, what, what are some really wonderful memories that you've had

from ski touring trips?

Yeah.

I just, I mean, for me, like, some, to me, maybe, but, like, the mountains are totally,

like, a really spiritual place for me.

It's just, like, there's something about being up in a mountain range, and, like, when

you get up at elevation, and just, I don't know, the way that this silence is so full,

you know, when you're up there, and being away, being human-powered, and kind of, I remember

kind of the first couple times I went describing it, like, because there is also a huge element

of risk.

Like, you feel like you're kind of discarded as, like, climbing up the main of a sleeping

lion.

And sometimes, you know, like, you're appreciating that you're taking these big risks to

be in these beautiful places, and hopefully not taking like crazy risks.

Um, and I love, like, working as a team and the food that you get to eat when you're

in the backcountry, which is great, I'm very food-motivated, so I love those delicious

snacks.

And, um, yeah, it's just the stars, um, yeah, and there's some great cabins around here.

So, um, yeah, that really is old-me, yeah, people.

I could not love that more, yeah, amazing.

So you and Dan came together, and had all of these skill sets that overlapped, and interest

that overlapped, what was the moment, like, when did you two meet?

Ah, so Dan was living with, uh, one of my friends, um, his, his roommate at the time,

but he was never home, and at the beginning, his roommate was like, oh, I love my new

roommate, he's never home, he's always away, and then lockdown happened, and suddenly

our roommate was home all the time, and, uh, I think part of what she was trying to get

him out of the house, and so she started, she was like, I really think I should set

you guys up, like, she kept, like, really pushing Dan, like, oh, he's such a great guy,

you know?

He's, um, we live in a ski town, so like, as you may know, it's right with Australian

who, like, live on couches, and, you know, our sea oxing in the world, he's like, he's

Australian, and he lives in his car, and he's like, you know, he lives in his car, and

he's really good at chopping firewood, and he's like, okay, Sarah, like, you're really

selling him, and I'm like, I don't know, um, and then of course, eventually, I like, gave

him, and like, and he's lovely, he's got a lot of things to offer, not just chopping

firewood, so, um, it was pretty good, but yeah, I feel guilty in hindsight, because he

really does live in his vehicle, um, but, uh, yeah, he, he came across slightly differently

when she was advertising him as a potential partner, but yeah, so we met, and I used to travel

a lot for work, I was on the road, um, or kind of in the air about half the time, so for

me too, I also, like, suddenly, was in Nelson with a lot more time than I had ever had before,

so, so yeah, so we met during lockdown, and, um, that was great, because if not, I don't

know if we ever would have been in the same place long enough to connect it, so, right?

Yeah, and while we were doing, for work at that time, I was working, provincially, doing,

um, quality improvement work, so I was traveling to the coast a lot down in Vancouver, and,

about capital, like, the island, and then also just, like, all over the province, like,

doing projects and workshops, and stuff like that, so, really liked it, but it moved a

lot to travel all the time, um, and it varied in the Gulf of Lyod over a local airport too,

so, truth, yeah, it's, yeah, it's hard, it's fine, but it doesn't hurt, so, yeah, it's kind

of a place that you go to intentionally, yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, which is great,

but also can be tricky to get out of sometimes, if you need to get to a hub or something quickly,

yeah, and be very intentional about leaving, also, yes, right, yeah, yeah, so, when you

and Dan met, were you, like, oh wow, this is a really random thing, this guy that I've

just met has, like, traveled by vehicle all over the world, but then you also, I bet, had

a bunch of stories from your experiences traveling and working, and your outdoor pursuits,

and then he obviously had a bunch of stories, and it kind of came together in this amazing

way.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was pretty funny, actually, the weekend we met, um, I had actually just

signed the paperwork to buy a house, and, like, to have roots, you know, my first house,

and then you, like, I traveled the world, and I was like, I just signed papers to buy a house,

um, but he was like, no, that's actually such a new advantage, like, that can be a really

good asset, and so, yeah, it did, it did come together, yeah, but we, our first conversation,

we really mainly bonded about, yeah, the Yukon, he talked so much about the Yukon, and

I didn't actually hear about most of his, um, international travels until way down the

line.

Oh, interesting.

So it went way down the line, up here with me.

I saw his Jeep when we were raised, which had a giant nap on the front of it, but, um,

yeah, and I also spent some time in Malia when I was a lot younger, four months in South

Europe Africa.

So we also connected our own, not, um, because we have a lot of people who did in Malia,

that was really nice.

Oh, wow.

Oh, hearted upper than, yes.

Yes, yeah.

You could really relate to each other.

Yeah, if you actually, he's put a couple weeks in a town, like, I've also a very small

town just a couple like less than a hundred kilometers from where I spent my

four months. So it was really nice to connect on that.

I love it. I love it. So lockdowns happening, you're here in Nelson. Obviously we

have to stay in one place for a while and then what was the first sort of trip

that you decided to go on together? Well then the big one was Australia. The

short term, I think the first thing we did was go to the hot springs. Pretty fun.

A couple days later we were like, well we're going to the hot springs, obviously.

But yeah, it was Australia. That was always kind of in, well not always, but with

the lockdown happening and him being Australia. In his cars it was one of the

only places you could still kind of travel without any restrictions once you

got there. There was a two-week hotel quarantine when you got there and

especially at the beginning of COVID, there were no cases they had.

Matches with 30,000 footballers in the same place and weddings and

whenever we were like, oh we can make it into Australia. You don't have to

worry about anything. It's a huge country. There's so much to explore and he'd

never really gone back to do that. They call it the lap. Of course we went

through the middle many times. A little bit, not perfect circle, but a lot of

interesting stuff in the middle. That was the plan and we always kind of

knew that was where he was going to go. Yeah, so I just decided to resign and

jump on board. Yeah, cool. What were you most looking forward to in Australia?

Yeah, I think I just wanted to be in, I could not think of a more different

landscape than where we live. We live in such a lush, temperate,

voluptuous rainforest and then I was going to like a flat-dried desert.

I think the average elevation of Australia is 50 meters above sea level.

Yeah, and it totally is so different there. Yeah, cool. And the vehicle set up in

Australia. Yeah, we had a Jeep gladiator which shocked me. I didn't even know

what existed before this trip. And we lived in a swag. What's a swag? Everyone's

favorite question. I like to describe it as a cross between like a bodybag and a

booby. A bodybag. Have you seen one before? It's like basically the sleeping bag

with like a little roof. Gotcha. A sleeping bag built for two, you know, like a

bicycle. You can get little ones. There'll be like whole families where you

have like a mama and a papa and little baby ones too. Thank you. And when I first

got there, it's just like it's like someone took the most poorly designed. Like

they took a tent and then they just made everything about it wrong. I think of

like my backpacking tent. It's like it's light. It's like super waterproof. It's

like compact. It's breathable. And like this bag is like heavy. It's made out of

cannabis. It is not waterproof at all. There's like a huge foamy mattress that

just is a giant sponge and like absorbs so much water you can like twist it

out and like yeah. And it was massive. It was like I could barely get it in

another gladiator. And it's like yeah, like my arms would be like this big

around it. And yeah, that's what we were in. But I have to say like after being

in Australia, especially in the desert, because in the beginning of our trip, it

rained so much. Like I think like so good. And great plan. Because we also like

nowhere to put your shoes. Like it's like this high. So you can't even sit up

and get changed inside of it. Like it's not a living space. It's literally just

a sleeping bag with a fly screen on top of it. But it is great in the desert

because it is comfortable. Like there is bedding and it stands up to really hard

conditions. Like there's so many sharp points. He thinks in the desert. Like huge

things that would like go through my workings talks, you know, like oh my god.

Yeah. So like my tent would have been scrapped. And the sun is just so brutal. So I

think by the end of the trip, I was like, okay, I understand why we did this

bag. But at the beginning, it was like, why do we have this? Like this is my

whole tent. Like so yeah, that makes sense. And long and we had a great

slide out kitchen set off. And we had them like a great awning and, you know,

the chairs and water system all the back but solar panels. But yeah, it was

very much like living outside set up, which was great. Because once the rain

stopped, it was mainly sunny. Yeah, incredible. What did you notice coming

there for the first time that you're just kind of blown away or surprised

or excited or interested about in Australia? Yeah. Good question. Could be

anything, would be scenery, food, interactions, high driving, overland,

call it to anything. Yeah. I mean, it's a huge country. And I think like coming

from Canada, you're like, we live in a big country. I'm not going to be like

scared or intimidated by how big it was. But Canadians live in the bottom

like 50 kilometers or 100 miles of border, whatever it is. So coming to

Australia, like everyone lives around the outside and then the very

middle. So the distances are suddenly much greater. Because you're not going

just along the bottom of the border. You're going all the way around the

outside. And so I think I was impressed by that, like the vastness of

Australia, like driving across this infant desert. And we did that. I was

like, yes, we've done it. We finished the desert back to civilization. And

then you, like, we've bird's bell, which is this tiny little outpost at the

end of the desert with the other side of the desert. And then it's like still

like 3000 or 3 and a half thousand kilometers. And it's just like the same dirt

track. It's just slightly flatter as you leave. And then it slowly becomes

like slightly wider. And then one track is paved. And then it's, you know,

but it was like still like four or five days of what long days of driving

on corrugation until you hit like actual civilization. So I think that was

pretty just. Yeah. And then, and then I love like it was cool to see some of

the more tropical places as well. Like the castuaries and like I've never

been where it's really tropical before. So just the lushness of like the

nannas and binables and then goes. And yeah, that kind of like rainforest,

you know, that was very cool. Yeah. And ocean. And that's really as

like the coral reefs are pretty cool. Yeah. Incredible stuff. I love that so

much. What were some tough moments in Australia? Yeah. We didn't get COVID

like on the first day of this incident desert, which is not ideal. I would

say that was probably a tough moment. It also like rained in the middle of

the desert. And there's just so many flies. So that was really hard. Yeah.

Just feeling pretty isolated and sick. And like, yeah, that was tough, tough

moment. But in some ways it was great because I mean, we had 14 days worth of

food with us and water. And like, we weren't gonna come in contact with

anybody else. Because that was really a little bit stressful. But that was

definitely, yeah, challenging moment for sure. Definitely moments on Cape

York, which is definitely more than with tip of Australia. I had no idea

driving like that existed. So that was definitely a bit challenging for me to

like get into it. And I, yeah, I normally do a lot of the driving. So that was

also like a bit like, oh my god, like, I'm not driving that. So yeah,

that was also challenging. And then in the end, awesome. Like, I got into it

and it was, we met great people and we had an incredible adventure out there.

But yeah, yeah, it was a great trip. Yeah, sometimes the minute is a longer

days, but we fall into the rhythm, you know, totally. Yeah, it worked. I got

really to running, which was great. Oh, nice. Yeah, running in the outback. Yeah,

I mean, sometimes you just want to get out of the vehicle and like, listen to

your own music and smell the air. Like, you know, it's really dusty, can be

really dusty on one of those roads. Sometimes it's nice to just go out

frifting the morning and so hot there that I had to get up like as soon as the

sun came up or it was too hot. So I really look back on a lot of those

memories, really fun. Going for my run every day. So wonderful. Yeah. I had my

first Aussie burger recently at your place. And I, it was fun because we were

chatting about like food culture in Australia. And there's things that are

really interesting to me since I've never been there. But yeah, tell me a

little bit about the food tips. Oh, man. Yeah, it was, that was also really

surprising to me. I always thought that Canada was, or Australia was kind of

like, you know, a hot Canada or like Southern Canada. Because you know, they're

both red on the globe, British, you know, colonies. For some reason, my

son's a geography was just really skewed. And I thought we were at the same

latitude, just they were south. But they're like really, they're way closer to me

equator. Like, I'm embarrassed by how they're more like Southern Mexico, like in

terms of where they are relative to the equator. So they have the opportunity

to grow some amazing fruit. But their culture is still extremely British. So

it's just like, yeah, I remember saying that to Dan a few weeks after we got

there, it was just like all like they could have amazing like Mexican food or

Thai food, like based on the things that grow, like people literally, they

would throw away avocados. Because there's so many of them are like lemon,

lime, yeah, like hot peppers, all this stuff. And then everything's kind of like

patient deep fried. You know, like we're having Christmas dinner and it's like a

roast and it's like 35 degrees out. And you're like, what we have? Avocados. So

that would definitely be an adjustment. Meat pies are a huge thing. Right? Yeah,

like almost all the goth stations. Like even in the middle of nowhere, we'll have

like a pie warmer and like meat pies. And these other things called

Chico Rolls, which are basically like, like basically just like an egg roll.

Oh, super popular. Kind of like the way by like a hot dog at a gas station. Yeah.

They have Chico Rolls. We have these other things called dim sims, which again are

just kind of like a dumpling. And you get like a bunch of dumplings and like a

plastic bag and just like eat that while you're driving, which is quirky. And

yeah, kind of lean into that. And then when you're in the outback pubs or like

the station, like the only two things you can maybe you can order an Aussie

burger. If there's a good one, we'll be a good one. But the other thing to

order is a chicken parme. And so yeah, that's that's pretty good. But I

learned really early on that even though there might be like the idea of

other things on the menu, you should just stick to the chicken parme or the

Aussie burger. Because they really be able to do delicious things. Everything

else is very questionable and probably from the back of a freezer. So gotcha.

And you're the Aussie burger is an Aussie burger when it has it has to have

like pineapple and an egg and sometimes bacon and beetroot.

Beetroot. Yeah. Pickled or not pickled. Oh, good. I think it's pickles. Yeah. Yeah.

And finally, yeah, pineapple rings, often pickles, bacon. Yeah, it's delicious. And

it's like, it's quite a, it's quite a science behind the whole stacking it. And

when you pick it up, it's like, you know, talk or something. You can't put it

back down again. So you're just like committed to just enjoy. You can't put it

back down. It's very difficult. Put it back down. Because all the layers

like what we're going to be like. Yeah, quite a cool. And chicken parme. Yeah,

just like chicken parmigiana. Yeah, you get it with all kinds of different

toppings. And we like them to be like really big like hang over the edge of the

plate if they can. Oh, parmina pint. That's what they parmina pint. Yeah. I can't

wait. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've got that kind of

for you. Nice. So great. Love it. Australia. Love it. How long were you

there for? I think we were there for like damn, they're for like over a year

and a half to your close. Yeah, 20 months. I was there from the 16 or 18.

Okay. We did a lot of hiking also. That was the other thing that I I did

can stand to bring our hiking gear on that trip. And so we did a ton of,

not a ton, but like probably six or seven like multi-day backpacking trips. Oh

nice. Which is awesome. Some involving like very crocodile-laden

like areas that we had to like cross. Which was a new thing for me. But yeah,

it was that was great. Those are some highlight also. Yeah. It's incredible

time. And then you returned to Canada. Yeah. Of you eventually. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Came back to Nelson and uh and then had a baby I guess. Yeah. That was a thing.

Yeah. Yeah. And then uh and then in Canada we get quite a long parental leave. So

I was gonna be off for 18 months. So we decided after the first six months that we would hit

the road again. Yeah. And then how did you decide when you were ready to go

and how did you decide on those destinations? Oh yeah. Good question. Um well I think from

everything that we had heard we loved skiing. We loved winter. And so our daughter was born in

November. So we knew we wanted to be here for like the winter season which puts us already at

like March or April. And also we'd heard from people you know those first couple months can be

really hard. They can be like really beautiful but like you have enough going on in your little

tiny bubble and we wanted to feel supported by our community and like we had some families

from Australia come over to help support us which was amazing. Um so we wanted to kind of like

live that out. And then uh yeah it just felt like the right timing also with the vehicle bills

to leave in the spring. So I was part of it was just like this seasonality. And then the other

thing was that we'd heard from a lot of people um it's so easy to travel with kids or like

baby youth but then once they start walking it gets a bit crazy. So basically like from I want to

say like four or five months until 18 months is like the golden time for traveling like they fly

for free. They're like amused by like a measuring cup or like you know the ticket from the grocery store

received whatever um and then it's because they start walking they just want to be walking. And they

also like start to want to have friends and they want to talk in English and they like want to

do all those things. So we kind of identified that as being a really good time for us that we

wanted to take advantage of and um yeah also like a great opportunity because I knew I could come back

and like have my dog back kind of it which is also great. And can we stress a little when you're

like overlanding for sure? I think in your situation so yeah. And a special thanks to Nitto Tire

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It's a great overland vehicle that is a Jeep with a camper attached to it and the top and the back.

I can tell you it's up top and back. Yep so there's like almost a queen sized bed up top and then

when it's up like when the bed is pushed up as well and the top is popped there's like a full kitchen

with like induction cooktop and a fridge freezer, a little pantry, a bench. Yeah so

that was nice. Yeah so different for us for having like indoor living space also. Right that was

awesome. Yeah nice and especially because you were headed to Iceland first, is that right? Yeah

so it was kind of shoulder season or wintery getting heading into winter. Yeah well we got there

at the beginning of August but we actually spent like two and a half months there. Right so by

October they had like a foot of snow which was beautiful because we kind of got to see like almost

like three seasons. We got to see all the colors changing which is actually super beautiful. I

had no idea. Iceland has almost no trees like the Vikings kept them up down except for one

little area that we got to see in the fall which was beautiful but the hills I have like so many

different mosses that changed color. I don't know when you were there but yeah it was really beautiful

and then the snow was amazing like it was so fun driving with snow and yeah Dan got to

to drive up on the glacier and that was just it's it's a magic we both loved Iceland. It was

really incredible. Yeah cool. Yeah and so we definitely wanted the indoor living space knowing

how crazy the weather gets in Iceland and especially the wind like the wind and the rain and then

having our baby it was like oh yeah we need some more like kids who didn't and dry and safe

doesn't even. Yeah tell me a little bit about traveling with your daughter Aurora on that trip

because I'm assuming that's the first time. Yeah you had all ventured off on an overland trip

together. Oh yeah. With her as a new travel buddy. Yeah yeah it was great it was so good and we

actually we drove across the country first to get to Halifax right that was kind of our introduction

and at the beginning the kids leave so much on their board like I think she was still taking

three knots a day so at the beginning you just kind of like plan your day around their nap so you

drive when you can to make that huge distance because I was really like I don't know if it was

easy but it's I think it's a lot easier than people think it's gonna be like it would be like whoa

you're so brave traveling with a baby but like you're your own little unit you get to spend so

much time together as a family and then I think so much of overlanding or traveling in general

it's like about being like really present in different places and like doing a lot of really simple

things that like sometimes it can be hard like to like appreciate the moment when you're sharing

with like this little human you know you're like oh I'm here with Aurora like you know so that

was really and and she's looking at the world in this whole new way that like again I'm

like we say but like with one like this type of wonder that like I think you get to like lean into

and borrow and and also like you're gonna be tired wherever you are like you're gonna be tired

somewhere beautiful like you know I definitely had days where like yeah like you know you have

those days where you're getting up and you're just kind of surviving but like if you're doing that

in Iceland then at the end of the day you're like ah and then I you know it's a hug glacier nice

way to where it's like you know you didn't really do very much um but yeah you got to experience

this really awesome thing with your baby and yeah and you get really creative and um it's a great

way of connecting with other people we into story times like in all the countries we might do

if we could find a story time we'd go to a story time and because Aurora doesn't speak English

or Icelandic so yeah in all the public pools and like and people just love kids like they

will you know love to chat with you and love to bring special things up for your kid and

yeah that was really great I love taking into art galleries to probably see learn how to crawl

and start galleries because they're like nice cleanly heated spaces where she could just

flop around and yeah it was it was really great wonderful stuff yeah oh um I'm curious about

how because you're documenting the trip as well um maybe that isn't I don't know if that's the

primary focus of the trip or not and maybe it is maybe it isn't but um yeah I'd like to know

a little bit more about that like how do you balance documenting with living yeah good question

and I think something we're still trying to figure out for sure we definitely had these where

they're like kind of like more like work days or days where we like knew it was more about the

vehicle and more about like over landing like like over landing but that kind of world driving you

know days um which over actually seems really great on like rougher roads which is awesome I think

the swaying and the legs out of the gravel um so that was yeah that's obvious but yeah definitely

is the tough tough balance to like figure figure that out and figure out um yeah I think

it's hard to when you're documenting for an audience and then also like to remember to document

for yourself yeah because like obviously like I don't think everyone's as interested in like

Aurora pictures as I but if I've been taking photos of the jeep all day or like footage you're filming

then it's hard to then turn the lens towards like what I want for myself yeah um and I don't do a

lot of filming but it's still just that idea of like yeah like who how are we documenting

and who are we documenting this for and do we even need to document this for ourselves or yeah

oh yeah that's that's a new thing that we're still thinking about I think sure and then I bet even

from sort of a logistical perspective we're going through a specific area and it's like we need

drone shots here yes we have to have them but what if you know is it nap time like I don't know all

the food or feeding or whatever all the things you have to balance but also you have to like do

this drone thing right now so like you have to drive and yeah it has to fly the drone and like all

yeah and now we have this other variable like having this gripping child in the background so like

Aurora loves Taylor Swift like I'm just gonna be totally transparent and like if you could hear

what we were listening to you for a lot of like really gnarly drone footage it's Taylor Swift

champion problems just on repeat and I'm probably like thinking along as I'm driving yes

dance like drowning your way yes yeah I was in the top like 0.3% of her listeners this year on

Spotify I'm not even ashamed for a minute whatever it takes I know her take thanks Taylor yeah cool

so Iceland yeah did that and then moved on yep we took your area to Europe yep that was pretty sweet

yeah and then what was next uh we just did some friends with Scythia London and we actually

walked the can you know which was awesome yeah so we left the vehicle behind got a new vehicle

of three wheeled varieties the stroller and uh yeah hit hit that out that was great so it's like a

six five hundred six hundred mile long walk I think it's like 800 kilometers and along the north

the same and we walked it for like six weeks wow yeah that was cool how did Aurora like that she

loved it yeah we're just like outside every day all day um we normally were walking for like six

hours and so she'd be in the stroller for um you know two or four of those I'd normally carry her for

two of those hours and yeah and then every night we were somewhere different um I think we had

like a couple of rest nights that it was almost like a new place every night for six weeks wow

it was also really different because that's part of overlaying right you always have your

consistent home and then this was like the opposite like they were so much changed every night

you didn't know if our place was gonna be freezing what the size bed we're gonna have like

it was gonna be loud or cold or whatever so um yeah it really made us appreciate some of the

things about our vehicles when we got home you know and uh yeah sometimes you just need to change

your appreciate where you're at so that was a great break and it was still amazing to spend

that much time outside and together as a family and um just like a really simple

simple life for those six weeks a simple piece yeah that's great so they're like we just need to

figure out food and then we need to walk and then we need to figure out where we're sleeping yeah

pretty much every day and like there's really only a couple of options every day so we had a lot

of bread and cheese or started to walk on the can you know which was also pretty cool wow yeah

and you just have a lot of picnics like if she's hungry just pop out the picnic blanket and sit down

and the farmer's field and have your cheese and bread and yeah it was great nice yeah and then

you reunite with the vehicle of that okay at least some time in the UK visiting family like

just because we were we had to fly um at some point in time to get back to Switzerland with a

cheap one so we did that and then um we took the Jeep to Sardinia and then from there we went

out to Tunisia okay great so Tunisia what was that yeah what was that like it was great yeah it

was really nice um a totally different area I mean I've only been like I've been to Morocco

and I've been to Mali which are very different and it was very like I feel like culturally it's

more cozy fifth than either of those places in Mali there's like some like way more languages

obviously there's like 90 plus dialects in Mali and many different languages and there's like

a lot of different religious spiritual traditions and similar with Morocco like I think

Morocco is so vibrant and also like geologic like the geography so diverse the elevation the

topography the history of all the different you know originally means stuff like that that have

been in Morocco the food um but Tunisia is also really lovely like you know it's very Arabic and um

we were there during Ramadan which was also really special and also challenging if you guys

have traveled in um Muslim countries during Ramadan because everything is closed until very late

at night which can be challenging if you have a small child but we got it you know we got our rhythm

down in the end um yeah and it was really nice it was really refreshing partially because I think

continental Europe is a bit challenging to overland in especially in the winter especially the way

that we were kind of used to overlanding in Australia where it's like well this looks nice we'll stop

here yes um and like we're overlanding really makes a lot of sense in terms of like we have

everything we need this is a beautiful place we are very peaceful like just like Europe is just so

busy but it is busy western continental Europe is so busy and we were there in the winter

the weather was like we were camping in the snow often or like rain um care of it you like

be care of in parks illegal to stop a lot of places we had to pop the top everywhere so like we're

not self camping places and then suddenly I get to Tunisia and it's just like you and some shepherds

in the middle of this field are by a salt pan and we teamed up with a wonderful couple from Finland

that we traveled with which was so nice um and they were happy to kind of go at our speed because by

then we could really only drive a couple hours a day with Aurora and that was perfect Tunisians love

kids that was really nice and I I also speak French like pretty fluently that was really great

not everyone speaks French obviously but um it was definitely enough to really connect with folks

and navigate anything we really needed to so that was really nice yeah so much history there

so much history yeah um what were some standout sort of interactions or experiences with the

Tunisians that you remember appreciate and joy yeah um the Bardot like just culturally like

visiting the bar which is one of their biggest museums uh we're all like basically all the

mosaics from all of the ruins like Carthage and everywhere they've like taken those mosaics out

of their normal home and put them all in the same place um and that was really mind-blowing seeing

like some of those mosaics and a world of this which is fun because they were like you know

fishies and flowers like all these things so that was really cool um we were hosted by some people

at a ranch which was really um like at their personal properties um from the jeep club in Tunisia

oh wow that was an incredible experience yeah that was really amazing just like a beautiful

beautiful property with like just so expansive and like like with the olives and the grapes and

they had tons of like I don't know they had like ponies and stuff on their property and it was just

thanks to really connect with um some local people yeah yeah and then the Sahara like that was

awesome no yeah I'd visited when I was in Morocco but then we got to do yeah that was probably one

of the most memorable things was um there's kind of like an overlanding camp down in the

cellist kind of at the gateway of the Sahara and so we stayed there and we met up with quite a few

other people like it was the first time I feel like I was really amongst like like overlanders

again or the first time in a long time yeah um people traveling in like Unemogs and buses from like

all over the world a lot of your kids um including from overlanding families which was really

needed to meet oh yeah some like families who just finished driving to Central Asia with like they're

like kids like a three-year-old little German and I also really appreciate it having the opportunity

to connect with other families because we didn't meet like other travelers but it's not very

often meet people with kids like and that was really nice to one of the mothers like chatting with

me and choose just like oh you must have days when you're so tired and she just like the way she

looked at me was like oh you've got it you see me yeah yeah yeah that's definitely one of the

harder things when you're on the road if you don't have that I mean it's just a different I think

early parent had can be a bit ice-living but then when you're on the road you are literally

your little island right it can be ice-living without kids and so it was really nice to like

just be able to connect and kind of swap some tips and they gave us the road was growing out of

some of her things we gave us like a sun hat and some poise and that was really fun she loved

she loves other kids so the day they arrived she's like kids she's asking for kids and then this

need a long pole that would be kids and it's like a Roy you manifest to the you manifest to the kids

but yeah so we spent a couple of years with them driving to the other which was really beautiful

playing those like six of us six vehicles and fun yeah having like a big bonfire with everyone at

night and just yeah just hanging like playing in the dunes and a lot of the vehicles like

went and like played in the dunes one evening and I just I just hang out and playing the kids

which is also great and beautiful so important to have those moments of connection because you're

right you are an island a lot of the time and you're in this little pod yeah and it's new and waving

or speaking with some shepherds from time to time sometimes and then to be able to come together

like that and especially like you were talking about connecting with other moms on the road

yeah super important yeah and feeling supported and seen yeah you're like yeah I'm tired

you know you know the depth of my tiredness yeah right it's a real thing it's a real depth

yeah nice oh that's so great um wonderful stuff uh Tunisia when you were done there then

what was next yeah that was kind of the end of our trip we surprised some friends in Switzerland

for their 40th birthday which is really great and then yeah we um over our next blue home and

uh dan shipped back that was kind of yeah that was kind of it and you had a specific

amount of time all right so yeah so we were gone for almost exactly a year um so we had to come

back we rented out our house like uh so we yeah you there was an end date at the end and we had to

line everything up you know vehicle shipping is always more complicated than you think it's gonna be

right um yeah so that was part of it I think it was great it was an awesome trip and it was really

nice to get like all the different contrast and um yeah we spent a little bit of time like in

sardinian and italy also like on the way down and the way back and that was also wonderful

yeah then I'd like had never been to italy before and I was like I don't understand like people

go to italy and they're like it didn't made a change my life and then I went and I was like

they've made a change in my life that was also great it was like Italian's also in our experience

like they really really loved kids like they loved Aurora they would like whisk her away to the kitchen

or like just hold her the whole time Dan and I would be eating at a restaurant and we would just

she would just be like with the wheat dress or something the whole time which was awesome like um

yeah we really appreciated those kind of breaks in our wonderful yeah I'm curious about um

like what were the changes or in Aurora that you saw during that time because I'm sure that

obviously she's growing and going from a really young little wee baby to almost a year later

yeah as a result of the experience yeah yeah and it's so hard because it's like one life is

no life you know in terms of like what was the trip and what was sure but she did say like she

could say thank you or goodbye and like six languages by the end of the trip which is pretty fun

like she was being like shock on in like Arabic which means thank you um and yeah just like

on also in Italian and Spanish and French and um a little like a nice one she got whenever

it is bye bye I think they say or hey hey yeah so that was really cool yeah she's really out going

super curious like really independent um yeah and I'm sure traveling probably impact it that

she's always so excited to be like where are we now like even this is a really tiny day so

yeah and a special thanks to this week's sponsor the Great American RV Show and Overland Expo

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to the 14th don't just dream it build it and get dirty it's um also crazy just like how little

we had for her like we had one little box of toys like with like some blocks and a couple books

I got so ratty and torn up um but yeah you really don't need a lot because like every day or

somewhere new and kids find something new to play with every day right like oh yeah she was like

picking up dates and we were in Tunisia I'm like you glass or whatever so yeah it was you know

sometimes a bit sketchy because you're like where are we today as a parent like what are you

gonna find on the ground but um yeah you're very present so that's good and then what about you

like what did you feel did you feel like you came back with some learning from all those experiences

I know it can be hard to have like a tangible thing because you never come back in the same way

you're always I always feel like this when we're leaving I'm like oh my gosh when we get back

I'm gonna be a different person yeah but the same yeah totally um but yeah I guess any insights

or lessons learned yeah um I think probably too big the biggest things I think it kind of maybe

made us more relaxed as parents um because I kind of just see the contrast with some of my friends

who spent that time here which is like not like that's what most people do it's really nice like

I'm there are lots of beautiful things about saying here too but because we were our own little

island like I didn't feel like we survived with like not much you know she didn't have a special

snow or like special babe we didn't even have a stroller other than the Camino for a ride trip

like um so I think that someone said like really early on they were like you are your baby's

most important thing which is true like that's like they need us and and that's what they

that's really like the most important thing that we're present and traveling like that excuse me

forces you to be so present like so hyper-present and um so yeah coming back that was just

really liberating like not to have to and and all those opinions like I think it can be a really

vulnerable time for a lot of people in terms of like other people's opinions about how you should

be parenting and what you should have and how you should be doing it in the milestones and whatever

but we were just so switched off from that because we were our own little unit and that was like

so grounding and so like that was amazing so um yeah I don't know if that was like a learning but I

I think I appreciated a lot more once I came back for sure and we always say a bit but I think

it's true to me we were like so happy to go but also so happy to come home right because for

Aurora like she definitely was just at this stage like 18 months people said that would happen

but like she wanted to be way more independent she was like ready to have more toys once we

walking everywhere does not want to be in a car seat anymore and we have a great community here

and a lot of great resources and we came back at the beginning of summer which was like

beautiful and luscious and just so that was also really nice to come home and be like okay like

we appreciated not having all of this we also really appreciate having all of this and being

part of that community and having all those friends and people and beautiful outdoor spaces for

a ride of lunch right that are like confident um so yeah I think those are kind of the biggest

things for us from that trip that was really yeah really nice I love what you're saying about

coming home too because coming home can be such a weird thing because you're kind of like whoa

this is a bit jarring sometimes or you're trying to sort of like process the things that you've

seen and done but it's so wonderful to come back to a place where you feel that community and you

feel supported and it's familiar and you're happy to be at home when you're like I had a really

good time but I'm ready for this next chapter at home whatever that will be yeah absolutely yeah

and I think like yeah I think too and it's like people saying this is a family like they

appreciated that like we were a family and like a family exists in this yeah it's just like our

narrative the narrative we have about like existing community like it was nice to like come back

to it and like give back to it and be like oh yeah this is kind of like our home like and it's

where we're gonna recharge and also like give give back to you hopefully yes yeah because there's

so many people that like contribute to a community happening it's like nice to like yeah cross-pollinate

for sure yeah do you remember any moments when you got home where you were like whoa coming back

with different glasses on or things that maybe words have always been here or you've done in certain

ways but then you came back here like oh whoa I forgot about this or um I don't know like the

grocery stores are so bountiful here or the food's expensive here or I don't know the mountains

are bigger than I remember or you know it's nice to speak with my friends and have a coffee or

you know yeah yeah totally I mean I'll know the thing that's it exactly no no no I think one thing

all we're coming home is just the space in Canada like the vastness and I mean again

Australia is also vast but like um yeah just like going to the Alps in Switzerland and it's so

I mean it's so beautiful it's like a storybook but a storybook but it's also so developed like

we're eating at a restaurant that's like nice food but any restaurant we have in town like

there's you know the apre like whatever like it's just and the same thing even in Tunisia like

you're yeah sure you're in the Sahara but like there are desert camps there's like hundreds of

camels better like actually all domesticated which is also very surprising to me right like they're

just yeah so if um I think appreciating how big Canada is and how sparsely populated it is

and how like we use a less rich it is I'm always kind of a shocked and grateful for um yeah

Iceland has no trees which is also very weird like that was another big thing we camped in like

a plantation one night and both then they were like oh do you just feel more relaxed right now

it's like yeah the trees like we've not seen trees in months and then all of a sudden you're

like surrounded by trees and you're like oh you're at home so yeah I think those things um

yeah I don't know what next for you guys great question yeah um

um yeah big question I don't know but that's great yeah you don't have to know yeah um I think

sorry this is a great question to other questions too oh sure the other thing that was

confronting two for me is that the end they also had to go back to work which is right

heart and like you know in this trip I obviously have a role to play with them and the Roach

was me and like filming and content and all that stuff but like primarily I got to be a parent

and a partner like very full-time for that whole trip and I did lots of logistics and whatever else

but like that was really nice and then suddenly to come home and feel this divided attention

all the time and I think especially traveling right you get to be so present not all day but like

a lot of the day you get to have presents whereas I think yeah now I'm like okay I've got work and

we've got take care of we've got friends like social stuff we've got family stuff we've got time

you know time differences with our families also and like all kinds of different obligations in the

community which is great we love community but also like it's a lot it's a lot it's a lot so yeah

definitely felt that like transition um energetically to coming home and just what does

balance even look like anymore yeah so it's a lot yeah and so what's nice I don't know I think we're

really happy being here right now like um for the like immediate like next three months left there

whatever you know we're appreciating it um I think we were really thriving having like some routine

and just like she's just growing and developing so much and that's really nice and nice to support

we still have so much content to unpack and digest from our trip also so I think that that's really

good and to save up a little bit for our next trip and we'll probably try out a few shorter trips

maybe like on this continent and then yeah I love that yeah we'll see me yeah and in the meantime

like you guys went on some amazing paddling adventures up in oh yeah more than that was awesome

that was like an eight day canoe trip with Aurora like right around when she was like one and a half

um that was awesome that was great we're definitely gonna try and do some paddling and some hiking

in the summer and yeah maybe get a high to go high you know yeah that would be cool but yeah

there's so much great stuff to do very close to home and so um it's nice to kind of feel some

of our schedule up with just like those opportunities yeah absolutely yeah we've got to take advantage

of where we live the stuff we live here so yeah good point I would like to know what some of your

favorite books are oh great question um one of the ones that's just coming to mind right now

I don't know it's top of mind um maybe it's called orbital uh I'm not gonna go into the author but

whatever I think it won the booker last year and it's great it's fictional but it's set in the

space station and so every chapter is one of the rotations of earth and there's all these like really

dreamy descriptions of like looking at earth from space whoo kind of like interest first with anyway

interest first with life on on earth from all the astronauts who all have different like backgrounds

and so oh neat that was really beautiful and the nice way of like thinking about the whole earth

yeah yeah I read that over on the community I think yeah um and I've always liked in the shadow

of the sun I think it's called um which is the collection of essays by a Polish author who or

Polish journalist who lives in Africa from like the late 1915 they want to say like until recently

so he has like you know so many kudytas and like independences and everything and he has a

collection of published and unpublished book you know never been published before essays in that book

and I remember reading that when I was in Maui and like loving it um yeah just do something about

like deeper appreciation where you are like some writing about the history and heritage yeah those

ones come to mind off it on my hand yeah great stuff yeah I love that um yeah where can we find

you online uh you can find me at the roach is me yeah yeah yeah I'm uh I'm often the one driving

a lot of the photos probably listening to the swillow Taylor Swift now um but yeah I uh I'm there

and I also I have an Instagram called Shade Sparrow which I occasionally post to not very often but

yeah you can find me there too very good and also an overland journal oh yeah

could you co-authored and also written articles yeah and some photography credits in there

and yeah you're a woman of all trades yeah many talents yeah yeah yeah I always forget about that

my other world my other life yeah cool yeah well thank you so much for joining me

such a pleasure podcast I so appreciate it and yeah we'll be following along with you and Dan and

yeah that way to see what your next adventure is wherever that may be um here or there or anywhere

so yeah thanks for taking the time to come chat with me thanks so much yay thank you for tuning in

to the seventh episode of the overland journal podcast it's been great hope to see you next time

and hope you enjoyed the episode