Kelsey Fitzsimmons Took the Stand. A Verdict Is Hours Away. And the Question Nobody's Asking Is the Most Important One.

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This is Hidden Killers with Tony Brusky, here now, Tony Brusky.

After three days now, of other people explaining what happened in that bedroom in the Kelsey

Fitzsimmons trial, what they saw, what they heard, what they believed they understood

about a few seconds that no camera ever caught, Kelsey Fitzsimmons sat down in the witness

chair and told it herself.

It's worth watching 90 minutes of direct examination, 20 minutes of cross and one line that

cut through everything else in that courtroom.

What I wanted to take my own life, I never pointed the gun at a fellow police officer,

it never happened.

That is what Kelsey Fitzsimmons believes, and I believe she believes it.

You can believe her, or you can believe Noonan, you can sit somewhere in the middle and

acknowledge that two people experience something catastrophic and are now reconstructing it

from the inside out and that human memory inside a trauma is not a recording.

It doesn't capture angles and trajectories, it captures terror and adrenaline, and the

desperate need to survive whatever is happening to you.

Noonan's account has shifted between statements, Fitzsimmons account has really never wavered,

neither of those facts as proof of anything on its own, but they are both true.

And they can both be true simultaneously, even if appearing somewhat conflicting, and

they're both worth holding on to as you listen to what she said.

We're going to go through all this today, I want to get your thoughts in the comments

section on YouTube and sub-stack, I've been trying to work this out of my mind as I've

been thinking about this case, and we're going to get into everything that took place with

her testimony today.

I'm going to wait to get into my thoughts, but let's get through what actually happened

here.

Because what's also true is this, whatever happened in that room, this was not a woman

who wanted to kill a cop.

I think we can agree on that, and I think it was a cop that wanted to kill a woman, and

that matters, and it deserves to be said plainly, before anything else, before Fitzsimmons

took the stand, three other witnesses spoke, the prosecution called Massachusetts State

Police Sergeant David Strong, their final witness, who confirmed that North End of

her police had exclusive control of the scene for about 20 minutes before state police

arrived and took over.

No North End of her officers entered the home after that handoff, none, accompanied state

police, when they executed the search warrant around 11 p.m., procedural testimony.

But in a case where questions about how this scene was handled have never fully gone

away, it adds another code to a picture that a fence has been carefully painting.

Things went down, choices were made, and in hindsight, I think every single person

involved, Kelsey to the police might be going, maybe we could have done things a little differently,

even if in that moment in time, the intention on everyone's part was never this, the outcome

however was this.

If we look at how all of the ingredients in the recipe managed to mix themselves together,

even if unintentionally, this is the flavor you get, that one you may have intended to

get, but it's what you got.

What could be done differently?

And what do we do?

What do we do with the situation, the very real situation that did take place?

Or someone got a bullet in their chest?

Can't just gloss over there and go, well, you know, next time, like, okay, yeah, that's

next time, sure, but what about this time?

Who deserves punishment if any?

Does anyone deserve punishment, or is this a failure of every human involved?

Were that failure that everyone is well aware of that, that's enough?

Or do we have to put someone away to feel good about ourselves, or to teach them a lesson,

or is a lesson even teachable at that point, or has a lesson been learned already?

These are the questions.

This case is confusing.

This is why this case is difficult, because it's not just bad people with bad intent,

good guy, bad guy.

There's really, it's not really a, I mean, again, you can get into the emotional minutia

of this case and go, well, I don't like, I don't like the, the boyfriend or the fiancee.

I don't like her.

I don't like the police.

I don't like, at the end of the day, there's so many things at play here and so many motives

and thought processes and ways of doing things that won in that moment.

I think, well, this is how I should be handling this.

Turn out to not be the best option.

We're human, we learn.

Trial and error sometimes.

Unfortunately, those trials can be pretty freaking horrible, and I'm not even talking about

the court case I'm talking about.

Here's how I plan on getting my child to safety if he believes that the child is in danger

and shouldn't be in the company of Kelsey.

Here's what I think I should be doing and how I should be handling this situation when

my world is falling apart around me from a completely from her perspective.

And here's how my mind mentally collapses and falls apart in breaks and I start doing

horrible things, not because they want to, because there's a mental health crisis going

on with an already extremely fragile woman who's already been institutionalized.

Not that far back.

Oh, I mean, with all due respect, and this is in no way trying to say anything negative

about Kelsey, probably not firing quite in all cylinders, despite the doctor's clear

and so ready.

Now, it just, it is what it is.

It takes time to come back from that, even if somebody, you're ready, you're good.

There's relapses.

We're not talking about addiction, we're talking about postpartum here, but it's not like

a switch flips one day and oh, you're done, it's a, glad that passed, took some zycam

and everything's gone.

It's not how that works.

And strong step down, the prosecution rested, the defense immediately moved for a required

finding of not guilty, which is standard procedure at the close of the prosecution's evidence.

They didn't argue it.

The judge didn't rule out it and the defense called it's first witness.

Maureen Torisi is a retiree, one of Patrick Newton's neighbors.

They used to chat while walking their dogs.

Last dog is she brought up the shooting.

Newton told her he was the shooter, if it Simmons pointed the gun at him, that it clicked

when she pulled the trigger and that he was not going to let her get a second shot off.

And then according to Torisi, he called Fitzsimmons a effing whack job.

Not a rumor, not an unnamed source of name witness under oath in open court.

But again, we're talking about someone who aimed a gun at someone and pulled a trigger

allegedly.

If you're the recipient of that potential bullet and you are then forced to pull your weapon

out and fire it in self-defense, you might have an opinion that resembles effing whack

job of the person.

You might, you just might.

And it's a name.

Are we so snowflakey that we can't handle being called names?

For grown-ass adults, people are going to make comments deal with it.

Torisi said she found his account confusing, asked him why they didn't bring a social

worker, why they didn't call Fitzsimmons to the station instead of showing up at her

home.

All very fair and valid questions and I think need a lot of consideration.

Those questions didn't get answers in that conversation, they didn't get answers in

the courtroom either.

But what exactly are we litigating in that moment of, okay, you called her a name, I might

have some choice words for somebody too that pulls a weapon on me.

Whether they pointed at me or not, they put you in that situation and whether the gun

is here or here, a little too close for comfort for anyone, honestly.

And I get, she has an mental health crisis at that moment in time, she's not a cop killer,

she didn't want to kill her colleague and friend, I get it.

But people are going to be people, just like she's going to be angry and have her perception

of this and that everyone is entitled to their perceptions.

Doesn't make him fact, is she an effing whack job?

No, probably not, she's a person who went with suffering from postpartum, was having

her life changed in an instant and not exactly being handled in any sort of, I don't know

to say proper, but any sort of calculated way, I guess I'll say that for the condition

to which she may be in receiving that sort of information.

Is it their job to do that, you know, buck up and deal like, yeah, I get that sort of

in attitude.

I don't think it's right, it's not effective if you, or any road you want to go down,

if you're wanting to avoid conflict and potential crisis, you, that's why you handle these

things more carefully than this, but everyone is really as good as, they are trained,

as good as they know.

Did they know better?

I don't know, I don't know the answer to that question, maybe they do, maybe they don't,

surprising sometimes when you talk about these issues with folks, officers and really,

how clearly some people are, not because they're evil, because people know what they know,

they're not going to be better than what they don't.

The prosecution pushed back on cross, Teresa had posted online that the case was a set

up from the get go, compared it to the Karen Reed case, and commented in her department

post honoring female officers with, wow, let's hope they stay safe from their colleagues.

She didn't deny any of it, the prosecution's point was clear.

She's not a neutral witness, the defense's implicit counter is equally clear.

She doesn't make what she heard untrue.

Then Lauren Page took the stand, Fitzsimons mother, she said her daughter was sad and

confused that day, trying to reach a Leon who had stopped responding to her messages,

which yes, would make someone sad and confused in that mental state.

He may be sitting there going, she's a danger for whatever reasons he may have, which it's

another whole part of this case.

He may feel that way.

He may have no sense of how to handle someone in this sort of a crisis in a safe and

non-threatening way.

In some situations like this, there really isn't necessarily a super-safe or non-threatening

way to handle it.

If you feel you have to remove a child from someone's home, basically take their weapon

away and basically say you're not, if we got a restraining order here, you're not going

back to work right now.

I mean, there's a lot of things she's met without that moment in time.

Are there more kid gloveways of handling it?

Yes, there are.

Should they've been used here?

Yeah, that would have been helpful.

We wouldn't have ended up probably in this situation.

But the reality is this is how they handled it and it's probably how they handle many other

cases too.

Not saying it's right, but I'm saying this is, you know, you're not getting paw patrol

showing up at everyone's home, handling it exactly how one would ideally like it to

be.

Where it did its reality, it is what it is.

Then you have to weigh the reactions of what happened after that on what the triggering

events were, and then how responsible is someone for reacting in that way based on the triggering

events?

That was changed with that.

This is again, there's so many, it's not cutting, right?

She says she heard a band say Kelsey, no, Kelsey, no, and then two gunshots.

She did not hear Kelsey say anything outside an officer was holding her grandchild.

She was told to hand the baby to a lion and a sister across the courtroom, Fitzsimmons

wiped tears from her eyes.

And then Kelsey Fitzsimmons took the stand and tried to explain the most catastrophic afternoon

of her life.

And I want to get to this, I want to say this right away, we're talking about it.

We're not playing the video back.

She was a very credible witness.

She came across very authentic, very real, in my opinion.

Does she have a narrative that she believes without a doubt?

Do I feel like she's trying to spread it in malicious or untrue way?

No, but she certainly does say over and over, almost like a mantra.

I can't believe I tried to effing kill myself with an unloaded gun.

I'm such an idiot or something of that nature.

She says that phrase a lot went on the stand and I get it.

This is what she's been telling herself forever because what else do you tell yourself?

True or not?

This is the version she believes.

This is the version she's living with and has allowed her to continue on.

And I believe she believes that.

I also believe she has invested interest in making others or encouraging others to believe

her version of events.

I also believe she may not truly know her version of events because the trauma she was experiencing

at that moment in time may have prevented her from truly actually recording what happened

in her mind.

In our minds, don't ever truly record anything.

But we're very good at misinterpreting things in extreme moments of crisis.

And the officer again, when you're racking a gun to get the bullet to get in there, you're

moving that thing around a little bit and it's not a crazy assumption to make that that

person may turn that weapon on you, whether she did this or this or was down here like

this and all it takes is this or this and you can choose your own adventure.

You don't know which way it's going next but she's already pulled the trigger once and

it didn't work and now she's getting a bullet in that chamber and it's going one direction.

You choose where it goes.

That's what the officer had to think about in those two seconds and make a decision

that would change the life of him and her forever.

So it's like, this is, that's something that's easy to judge or even should be judging

from the sideline.

I mean, she said she was surprised when the officers arrived confused and then in the

space of a few minutes, she watched everything she had disappeared, the baby, the man she

was going to marry her dog, her house, her badge, everything she had built and everything

she had planned and everything she had tried to hold on to a battling postpartum depression

that had already put her in the hospital once gone, all of it at once.

Now, somebody argued, well, that's not true.

It's just until the court and everybody's got, I get it.

But this is what her brain is saying to her at that moment in time, whether it's true

to reality or not, this is how she's processing the information.

Her reaction is, I just lost everything I want to end my life and again, sometimes

some people are on that stage, you know, they don't, you know, they might make even worse

decisions and these other officers know that, not that she's sitting there going, the

vibe when I go, kill the cops or something, it's not what she's thinking.

But she has no regard for her own well-being, what makes you think she's going to regard

for anyone else's well-being?

We clearly know she doesn't have any in that moment in time, not because she's an evil

person because she's suffering a mental health crisis.

In fact, she's willing to pull that weapon out, do that in front of someone else.

That is having zero regard for that other person.

That's having zero regard for herself.

That's a mental health crisis in that moment in time.

It's not a, she's a bitch where he's an asshole or whatever you want to throw in here.

She's a mental health crisis and it is what it is.

I had just lost everything, a simple description of where she was standing inside herself.

And when noon and then he went downstairs, she said she saw a window.

The only one she believed she was going to get a few seconds to loan with her firearm.

She said she grabbed the gun, put it to her chest, took two steps back, raised it to

her head and pulled the trigger and nothing.

She heard Kelsey know, Kelsey know, she pulled the trigger again, set a swear word.

And then she was on the ground as what she remembers in the ambulance.

She kept saying the same thing on a loop.

Here we go.

This is the mantra.

This is what she's telling herself.

So she's telling everybody around there.

Now people go, this is controlling the narrative.

I'd say it's a version of it.

Sometimes people control narratives for themselves.

Sometimes they control them for others so people go along with a story and believe what they're

trying to be told in that moment in time.

Some people do it for survival.

Because she's snapping out of the darkest moment of her life and saying this, I'm an

effing idiot.

I just tried to kill myself with an unloaded gun.

She says that a lot like a mantra.

Is this her trying to convince them of her story?

Because she knows that she pointed a weapon at someone and then got shot for it.

And God, that was a horrible idea.

I never really should have done that.

I didn't really want to do that.

I did it.

I was stupid.

It was a bad decision.

But I can't admit that at this moment in time.

Is that what's running through her mind?

I don't know.

Or is it literally just this?

This is like verbatim, how she's functioning, how there's not a hidden meeting.

There's not a, let me try and convince other people of my story.

This is literally how she's thinking it all went down.

I was trying to kill myself.

Why would, how, how did, but I didn't, I didn't do that.

I didn't pull that trigger.

Somebody, how did a bullet get in?

There's a while your world just exploded.

The brain ain't working right at that moment in time.

When paramedics put an oxygen mask on her, she kept pulling it off.

She wanted to die.

She remembered noon and holding her hand and she asked him why.

She said the pain felt like her entire body burning.

But she was alert completely aware of every second, five surgeries, 53 days in the hospital.

I never pointed the gun at a fellow police officer.

It never happened, she said.

So with the fact that she is reconstructing this from inside one of the most violent and

distorting experiences a person can have, being shot.

And noon and his reconstructing it from inside his own version that same few seconds, neither

them is a camera, neither of them has the luxury of watching it happen from the outside.

The truth of where that gun was pointed lives somewhere inside two people's traumatized

memories of a moment that lasted less time than it takes to read the sentence.

It doesn't mean nobody is telling the truth.

It means certainly, in a case like this, it's harder to come by than a courtroom likes

to admit.

The prosecution's cross-examination was short and precise.

Guitose didn't call her a liar.

He asked something harder as a trained police officer.

You know that a person in mental health crisis with firearms in the house is a danger to everyone

present.

She said, yes, that's true.

A judge weighing intent and danger in the gap between what she says she meant and what

she created in that room has to carry that answer.

Maybe the sharpest edge in this entire case and it came from her own mouth.

After Fitzsim and stepped down the defense rested and there's one more thing worth showing

today and slowing down for for two days.

The defense fought to put the judge inside that house, argued the position of the gun

that after the shooting would prove everything.

I got the visit approved, had it scheduled.

And then after Fitzsim and finished her testimony, they walked away from it quietly.

No explanation and any reporting.

They built two days of argument around that room and decided not to put it the judge in

it.

Either her testimony gave them everything they needed and the room was no longer the

point or they weighed what a judge standing in that bedroom might observe and decided

the risk wasn't worth it, only the defense team knows which.

But it happened and in a case with no video and nobody cameras choosing not to let the

judge see the physical spaces, not necessarily a neutral decision.

Closing arguments are next 30 minutes per side.

Judge Carp said he could reach a verdict as early as the same day or the one after.

We're talking about a woman who was already fragile before that day started.

We've been involuntarily committed for postpartum depression months earlier, who surrendered

her service weapon the very next day, who spent the months and followed trying to hold

herself together while her relationship deteriorated and her mental health frayed

and her world contracted around her.

And then one afternoon in the space of a few minutes, she lost every single thing that

was tethering her to the idea of being alive.

And the middle of that, and what the evidence describes as a complete mental collapse,

she picked up a gun that was wrong.

She would tell you that.

But here's a question.

No one in that courtroom has the standing to ask, how did we get here?

Mr. Timothy Houston walked into that house knowing Fitzsimmons have been involuntarily

committed.

He didn't know all the details, but he knew enough.

That was a documented fact about the woman upstairs, and there was no mental health professional

anywhere near that situation.

I don't blame him.

Maybe that's not anything he had remotely level of control over.

It's not because anyone was indifferent because it's not what a restraining order call

is built to include.

You bring officers, you bring legal paperwork, you don't bring a crisis counselor all the

time.

And not every department has a crisis counselor.

Nobody has designed the system where that is an automatic response.

Even when you know walking in that this person inside has already been to the edge once.

Maybe that's what needs to change.

Maybe that's what we should be litigating right now.

Not this.

Spend the time on that, fixing it so it doesn't happen again.

These officers were not equipped for what was waiting upstairs.

That's not a condemnation on them.

They did what they were trained to do.

They knew what they knew.

But somewhere between the moment Kelsey Fitzsimmons was discharged from a hospital for a mental

health crisis and the moment three colleagues knocked on her door, the system that we're

supposed to catch people like her just didn't.

There was no net.

There was nobody whose job it was to look at the situation and say, this is not a standard

to call.

This is a woman in a document of a crisis and we need to approach it differently.

That gap is what put everyone in that house in danger, all of them.

The charge is not invented.

The threat was real.

But the question of whether a felony prosecution is the right response to a mental health

emergency, the system never caught, it's not a question Essex County Superior Court

can answer.

It can only tell us what the law says about what she did in those few seconds.

It cannot tell us what should have happened first.

A verdict is coming.

It'll tell us whether Kelsey Fitzsimmons is criminally responsible for what happened in

that bedroom.

What it won't tell us is what should have happened before anyone knocked on that

door.

There are different protocols, a different system, one person in that response chain who

specific job was to recognize what this actually was might have meant that nobody in that house

got hurt.

Those are two different questions and in this case, only one of them is getting answered.

Your thoughts in the comments section on Substack in YouTube.

Well of course, be back with more questions and more discussion on this case and a verdict

very soon.

There's no right or wrong, but I'd love to see your opinion and your thoughts.

Wayne in the comments section, like I said Substack YouTube be sure to press subscribe wherever

you're getting podcasts.

You don't miss any of our reporting of this in the many cases we follow for you right here.

Until then, my name is Tony Bursky, we'll talk again real soon.

Want more on this case and others, then press subscribe now and don't miss a moment of

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