Kier Gaines: Why Healing Starts With the Truth You Keep Avoiding

0:00The attention economy concerns me and I think we're getting more desperate for attention. But I think the more we look for attention and notoriety, the less we hold on to some semblance of integrity and morality and ultimately, I don't know where human this goes after that. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of McIntyre. And today we are in for it. Like we are going to be talking to a guest, that's a prominent voice in health and wellness. Diving deep into personal development and sightful. He's impactful and he's done something that he doesn't know yet that we're going to talk about it. This actually changed my life. We're talking to none other than the amazing Mr. Kier against Kier how you doing today brother? I don't go. Mick was good with you brother. Thank you for having me on man. Man, thank you for being here. I'm honored. There's some things we're going to we're going to talk about.

1:00But I have to give you your flowers bro. Like I'm all about that, especially when we talk about about mental health, which I know is a space you dominate and we're going to talk about your amazing journey. But bro, I've been following you for a while. And you said something that you were going through that made me pause and I was like, I'm implementing this in my life right now. Okay. You said that you told someone they were hurting your feeling. And when you said that bro, every ounce of pride and ego that I had, I was able to step to the side because I understood the power of that. And so I just want to thank you for giving me that power as a man, as a black man to be able to let somebody know. Hey, that just hurt my feelings. I love you for that brother. Hey man, I love the fact that you picked up on that you were able to do something with it.

2:01It's such a hard thing to admit. Especially as a man and especially especially as a black man because there is this motif of being impenetrable that I think gets us assigned to us. And it's unfair, man. It's unfair because you're still a person. You're still a human. But when you put that motif on for so long, you start to believe that it's true. And after a while, you don't acknowledge your own feelings. And then there's this other part of it too, make where when you admit that somebody that they hurt your feelings, now they got the power to do whatever with that they want. Whatever they want, they can say, man, put up your feelings and just continue to steamroll. You're right. You know, they can listen. They can see you as weak and just avoid any type of conflict with you after that. It's really a mark of bravery to be able to admit something like that. It's still hard for me to admit. So I, man, I love that, bro. I love that so much that that was able to help you. I'm glad that you gave me the power to do that. I know that there are people that are watching that are listening right now.

3:04I'm letting you know it's okay to let someone or someone's plural. Know that they hurt your feelings because feelings are real. Oh, yeah. And that's what Kier taught me, man. Like, like the emotions that we have, the feelings that we have, they're all real. And a lot of times we keep that bottled in and it makes it worse and worse and worse. And then we put ourselves in darker places because we don't give ourselves the authority to communicate back to others. And so again, I applaud you for that, bro. No, right on, man. It's, I think the authority piece is the perfect characterization of what that is. It's, uh, it's giving yourself permission. And for me, just the way I grew up, the hardest part of giving myself that authority is I always confuse someone who has hurt feelings with someone who's soft, weak. So oh, no, I was, I was still beat you up. Right. Right. No, that's not what this is. It's the acknowledgement of what's going on inside of me.

4:06And I think just being a man is so much about when you control in your external universe, when you can manipulate for financial and economic gain and how you could be seen, how you could be loved and respected, but got to love respect yourself. And norm people will have to love and respect you. Hey, bro, I ain't like when you did that. You don't have to always say it that way. You hurt my feelings. And for those that don't know, I shared that with my wife. She wasn't my wife at the time. She was my girlfriend. I'm like, Hey, the way you talking to me, you've heard my feelings, which is counting that to it. If the way that a lot of us are culturalized, man, so thank you, man. I appreciate that. I'm glad that was able to do something for you, brother. Absolutely, man. Absolutely. So, Kierman, I start every episode by asking my guests a very specific question. I had all the accomplishments and life that you've had and the things that you do that we see publicly, but a lot of things that you do that we don't see, man. Like you, you are a, a monster of inspiration. You are a powerhouse when it comes to mental wellness and you really give back and help.

5:12And so my question to you is what I ask everybody. Like, what's your, because that thing that's deeper than your wife, right? Like Simon Stenic taught us to start with why. Awesome. But I think that as you continue to answer that question and go deeper, what usually happens is you say, Oh, this is my why because X, Y and Z. And I care about what you say after you say the word because. So if I were to say Kiergames, man, like all the things that you do, the continuation of giving back and pouring in and trying to make this universe better, what's your or be cause? What's your purpose today, brother? Because why not? Because why not? I think that I realize very early that I'm a pretty good translator where I can take things that are pretty complicated and I can put it at our level so that it's digestible for folks. Why not?

6:12Why not have a better understanding so that you have a chance of the better relationship? Why not have a better understanding of where your feelings work so that you can anticipate them before they get there and that you can manage them once they're on top of you and then that you can maintain some sense of emotional stability once they're gone. So you're not just beating yourself up for what you didn't say in the argument. Why not? Why not? Why not have the opportunity to know yourself better as you change throughout time and you go through grief and you go through experiences and you go through hurt, you go through happiness? Why? I don't understand why not. Yeah. I love that, dude. I love that. And when did you realize, when did you first sit down and say, hey, I want to share with the world and go deeper because I've heard you talk a lot about depth, right? Like a lot of times, these are the words of Mick and Mick O'Me. I think with AI now, everybody can sound really good on a subject.

7:12Yeah, for sure. Yeah, you can write to self-esteem. But if they're not going deep into it and like that's where I can find out who's really who's not. Mm-hmm. When did you know that mental wellness was going to be a space that you were going deep into? That's a good question, Mick. I feel like what I learned how important it was in my own life and I learned, you know, you have a, like when you're in a college class or when you're in any type of training and you walk in and you have an understanding of whatever subject you buy to go into. Like, I know what I'm talking about. And then the more that instructor talks, the more you realize, oh, I was on level 150. I put on everything, but there's a science to the science to the science that I don't understand yet. And I think as I started to accumulate life, you know, like I said, my girlfriend at the time, we found out we were pregnant.

8:14She's my wife now, but this was seven, eight years ago. I started trying to figure out what it is I wanted to do with my life. I tried to better understand who I was and how I worked and why I did the things I did. And the more I would come to these understand, there's the more I realized it was still so much more to go. And I realized that when we spread the problem wide and we talk about it in a very wide way, but we don't talk about it deeply. We don't get anything done. We just feel good about discussing it. And that didn't feel complete to me. It didn't feel fulfilling. So I started just like how you don't ask the why you asked the because I started saying it. And then what? Well, you need to be aware of these things that you think and feel. Okay. And then what? Well, once you're aware of these things, you think and feel you have to start being able to try to determine how they affect you. Okay. And then what? Well, once you determine how they affect you, you had to determine how they affect the people around you. Okay. And then what? And then what? If you're not only drilling deeper to get to the bottom of the problem, but you're also

9:18casting a wide net of your own understanding so that you're not just moving in a way that satisfies your most surface level urges. You know, the desire to be better, desire to be loved, seen and respected. But you're you can walk into a feeling of self love and to a feeling of self respect. You can not just say, Hey, I'm man, I got these people, please, and tendencies. You can be honest. You have self honesty, which I've read about in my book. In the self honesty says, Hey, I'm afraid that people will abandon me if I don't allow them to just, you know, do the thing uninterrupted. And then you ask, Okay. And then what? What happens when they abandon you? And it's just maybe it's just me and my curiosity for life, bro. But I'm about solutions. I see the problem. What are we going to do about it, man? That's it. And that's what Kendall me to start on this journey. Hey, so you talk about the book and we're just going to go there now.

10:19So before I knew you were writing a book in a huge fan of you and if people would have asked me, you know, tell me about Kier. Tell me about what you love about them, what you like about them. I would have said this right here. The air makes me think about the most uncomfortable truths. And so I caught the segment of the show actually called the unplug truth based on me talking about you. So I'm breaking news right now. So the second segment of my show I always call the unplug truth. And I got it from you because you made me think about uncomfortable truths, right? Like the things we don't want to tell ourselves or accept about ourselves. That's right. And now let's talk about this book. It all starts when you do to me is the most uncomfortable unplug truth ever, ever, ever ever stated because and we're going to go into the book. But just the title, it all starts when you do just opens up so much internal uncomfortable

11:25in this, bro. Damn right. We got to answer that question. Yeah. Are we going to start? Are we going to start? Are we going to start? How are we going to start? And when are we going to start? For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Let me do a better job of being a book person and move the book into frame. But it's, yeah, uncomfortable truth. One of my uncomfortable truths is when I'm really focused, I'm going to forget stuff. So I'm going to forget to move my book in the frame and instead of just killing myself over it and just be, oh man, I'm so stupid. I'm so dumb. Okay, how can we do this differently next time? Yeah. You try to give myself some grace. Some people have an uncomfortable truth of not admitting when they're overwhelmed. I'm overwhelmed. You can't say that. Why? Because you feel like it is a scathing indictment on your capability. If you're overwhelmed, maybe you ain't got the capacity because you're too weak. You're not deserving. Nah, it's not about my capacity. It's too much going on. It's too much for one human handle.

12:26And I family sometimes people who have these behaviors that aren't healthy and aren't adaptive, they'll say rude stuff on a flammatory or hurtful things to you and they just say, oh, that's just the way I am. And one of the uncomfortable truths is it's too late for me to change. No, it's not. The final change. You don't have to massively change all the time. You don't have to change who you are. Sometimes you just change a few things that you do. Never that be the sample test and see what happens after that. So in my mind and with the clients that I see in therapy, one of the more like reoccurring observations that I have, folks, is that the biggest breakthrough that you need is oftentimes on the other side of one of your most difficult challenges. And those difficult challenges are usually framed in an uncomfortable truth that you do not want to confront your avoidant. And we got a lot of avoidant language that makes us okay with avoidance.

13:26And that's cool until it's not. But the only way to go through it is to go through it, bro. Like, that's the only way. You can go around it, but it's still going to be there. And I don't like the boogie man chasing me down. I don't like it. You ever heard of this thing? It's my daughter is nine and there's this like tail of a snail. It's like you take some type of deal and a turtle or snail follows you for the rest of your life. Yeah. And if it touches you as like poison or something and you're like, oh, I'll just let the turtle follow me for life. But you, oh, because it's slow, you wouldn't think there's ever going to catch you. But you have something chasing you for the rest of your life. You never know a moment of peace. And that's how I feel about uncomfortable truths to get left on the table. Dude, I love that. And that, like, we're going to talk to the audience. We're going to talk to the people that are listening that are watching because I know personally, there's somebody on the other end that's like, that sounds great.

14:27I love it conceptually. How do I get started? How do I get started with no longer avoiding? How do I get started accepting that? Yeah, it really does start when I do. How do I take that first step to put hands on that wall to really start pushing in the new ring? So I'm going to give you the floor, brother, because this is your world. This is your domain. You're the expert light. There's a person right now that needs this key. No problem. Let's, let's start with two light loads. I used to be a personal trainer. So you always start with the easy joints first. Let's, let's, let's start with some jump attacks. Two things that you can immediately do or immediately pay attention to. One is the amount of awareness you have toward those things. So being aware that the fact that you put things off is starting to affect the way that you obtain your goals or your loyalty towards certain people is starting to affect your ability

15:31to grow. Your, your own willingness to put yourself out there has maybe hampered your mobility in the job market. You're not where you want to be. Maybe your inability to make the right decision has pigeonholed you into a life that does not feel good on your skin. Some people just can blame it on everything. Or didn't, you know, the universe didn't work out or it just wasn't time or, you know, it just wasn't meant to be. I think it's the awareness of no, I made that mistake. No, I didn't try hard enough. No, I didn't do the best that I could. The awareness, why knowing that that awareness is not going to feel good because the next thing you're going to need on top of that is the mechanism to get yourself out of a tail spin, which is a whole nother conversation. But first, it's awareness when we're talking about starting and the other thing that you can do right now, well, you know what I'm saying? Let me say one piece about awareness. Awareness is also not just allowing the thing to exist and you just kind of make a mental

16:34note of it. Call it out. I'm procrastinating again. I'm supposed to do that. I'm supposed to do this work two hours ago. I'm procrastinating because I do not want to do it. I have to, but I do not want to do it. It's telling the truth of the situation even though it doesn't feel good to say, but I see you. I see you procrastination. You can't hide from me. You're right there. I'm calling you out. Calling you out loud verbally. It's not just living in my head. I'm saying it out loud. That's the first thing you can do to start. The second thing you can do is start to become curious. Curiosity is such an amazing characteristic the whole because not only does it allow you to see something difficult, it really can lose you to think about the why. You start moving around it. When you get really curious and when your curiosity turns internal, like introspective, we call that self-interrogation of automatic thoughts. It's interrogating the first thing you think. The first thing you think you just usually allow a shoot from the hip like a Western field just bang. Nah. Nah, nah, nah, nah.

17:35That's just my first thought. That's the rough draft. You don't get to get met to the world. You don't get introduced to the world as the rough draft. I wonder why I think that. I wonder when narrative is attached to that. When do I first remember starting to think this way? Who else in my life thinks this way? Who influences me? Interrogating your automatic thoughts and being aware of the thoughts that you have are two really good starting points to get some inertia and to get some momentum so that you can start moving in the direction that you want to move to. Not just being stagnant in the ways that your life has either trained or conditioned you to be. That's why you're here, brother. Like, that's, I promise you somebody needed that, man. And I'm going to tell you, so this is me getting personal on how you helped me. Let's get personal, man. So my uncomfortable truth moment, you helped me overcome it. You didn't even realize it, right? Like I've seen and followed you forever.

18:36Thank you, man. I realize, and I know that there are a lot of people out there, especially if you're entrepreneur, if you have a business, if you do any type of consulting, and I'd be curious to get your part or your take on this too, you helped me understand that as much good as I wanted to do in the world, I can't do everything for free. And here's what I mean. It was real easy for me to say, oh, yeah, I'll help you with that. And it's my business, right? So if I've got a business that teaches emotional intelligence, if I've got businesses that develop AI, like if you were a friend or a buddy, I'd be like, yeah, I'll help you with that. I won't charge you. But it would eat at me because the same amount of time and energy and effort that I was giving a client that was paying me $50,000 or $100,000. I'm giving my buddies, friends, people I liked, I do it for free.

19:41And I know people are like, make that sounds weird. You want to charge everything you do. But when I tell you the energy key that goes into doing the same thing, I started feeling awkward. Well, how can I charge someone X? But then I do the same thing for someone for free. And mentally it was eating at me of, and here's what you helped me overcome. How do I tell a friend? No, I won't do it for free. You can pay like everyone else pays and get the best of everything that I do. And it really sucked to tell someone, no, like it really, really sucked to tell someone, no, because my heart, the heart that I have is I never want to leave anyone. If I make it to the top, I want everybody to come to the top with me, but everybody's not willing to do that work. And it made me understand or it made me believe and start to see not that purposely I was

20:41getting used. I'm not saying it that way. But people understood that I probably was going to say yes. Oh, they knew that dynamic. Of course. And you helped me, you helped me with that uncomfortable truth of, hey, Mick, can't be nice to everybody. And that was really hard. And people may seem like, yeah, that's, that's an easy switch to turn on and turn off. But when you, when you are me in the heart that I had, like, it was tough, bro. But, but now I can promise you I've overcome that. And people that know me now are like, oh, I'm not, I'm not going to Mick unless I'm ready to go to Mick and I'm willing to invest in myself to be the better version. That's right. Because you normed them. You know something interesting that you said, I'm not trying to therapist you, but you said you can't be nice to everyone. And my mind, allow a friend to get services from you. And if you're entrepreneurial, you understand, is it any personal? Allow my friends to get services from you that you pay for. That's not niceness to me necessarily. I think there is an element of kindness to it.

21:43But when it becomes hurtful to you in your business, I don't know what word to put around that. But being, being firm is not the opposite of being nice. Here's something I wish somebody had told me earlier, your money should work for you. Not nickel and dime you with fees. That's why Chime caught my attention. Chime is changing the way people bank. They're not like traditional old banks that charge fees and gatekeep perks and rewards. Chime offers the most rewarding fee-free banking with no overdraft fees, no monthly fees, and no minimum balance fees. You can get 5% cash back on the Chime card and a category you choose like gas or groceries while building credit through regular everyday spending with no credit check. You can also grow your money faster with a savings rate that's 9 times the national average. And if you're ever in a pinch, SpotMe lets you overdraft up to $200 fee-free. Join the millions already banking fee-free with America's number one choice for banking.

22:46Head to Chime.com-slash-mick. That is Chime.com-slash-mick. Sign up now? It only takes a few minutes. Chime is a fintech, not a bank. Banking services and Chime card provided by Chime's bank partners, qualifying direct deposits required. Terms and limits apply. Go to Chime.com-slash-disclosures for detail. Listen, I love a great meal. What I don't love is getting to the end of a long day and realizing I still have to figure out what's for dinner. That's where Butcherbox has been a win for me. I like knowing I can open the freezer, grab a great steak or some chicken, and already have the hardest part of dinner handled. It keeps me from making that last minute takeout decision when I really want something good at home. Butcherbox delivers 100% grass-fed beef, organic chicken, wild-caught seafood, and more. All source to standards they can actually tell you about. They've already done the research and made the tough sourcing decisions, so all you have to do is decide what's for dinner.

23:46If you're looking for an easier way to get great meals on the table, give Butcherbox a try. Go to Butcherbox.com-slash-mick to get $20 off your first box. Plus your choice of free ribeye, New York strip, or filet mignon in every box for a year with free shipping always. That's Butcherbox.com-slash-mick. Again, that's Butcherbox.com-slash-mick. Be sure to use our link so they know we sent you. And I think that's a tough thing. Especially when you got a big heart. I got a big heart too, man. I had a learning to be more firm with people because folks ask, hey, can you come speak here? Can you come do this? I'm different. It's not like I'm building something that takes me 25 years to build. And then there's a lot of like that obvious and time consuming work. It feels like I'm just going to go do a speech. Or yeah, sure, I can go talk to your school. I can talk to your nonprofit. But what happens is my currency is time now. So I was spreading myself very thin. And now every second that I spend out of the house, out of the house is time away from

24:48my family. It's time away from my wife. It's time away from my hobbies. It's time away from my peace. And it's me saying no to that opportunity isn't me not being nice. It's me being protective of the things that I am assigned to protect. And my business is the thing that I'm assigned to protect. And if I'm doing 45 random free speaking events, when I have this big one that they, because you know, when they start paying, you make, they want you to, you got to show up, right? I think. Yes. Yeah, you got to show up. You got to show out. You have to perform and deliver. And it's hard to do that when you're banned with his low. So I'm glad you did that. And one of the things I did to overcome that is when my friends have things, I got a friend who's a professional photographer. But as soon as we call, I talk money first. A bro send me a quote, you know, send me a quote of how much you want to touch me for this because I believe that if you do something really well, you should not be doing it for free. A capitalism be damned. I'm sorry. Hey, I'm always being my mantra. I just thought other people would resonate it back.

25:50And I got firm. I think that's better. That's a better way to say it. I remember this guy from, so. Yeah, it's not comfortable though. It's not comfortable all the time, but you got to practice it. And it's not like you practice it enough that you know, you're good at it. You just, yeah, yeah, you get good at the things you practice for sure. Kierman, like again, huge follower, huge fan. I want to go into some hot takes now. Somebody hot takes is nothing, nothing crazy. But make you want me canceled, man, is that what we don't? Nope, not doing that at all. This is me again, giving you your flowers because my hottest take of the day is this. I trust Kier games because one, he's going to tell me the truth and two, this is a hot take. He has the credentials to back it up. Oh, yeah. And so I don't think people understand the depth of having like license credentials.

26:57I'm not talking about credentials of 200 people say, Kier's hot, you got to go follow him. You got to go listen to him. I don't mean credentials of Google reviews or social media followers or engagement. I mean, like real ass credentials, bro. Yeah. Like like licenses, continuing education of those licenses. And so this is a part of my hot take. Does it piss you off when others, and I'm not talking about anybody particularly, and I know there's been some news like I'm not even talking about that. I'm just saying it's real easy for people to put air quotes for those that are listening out watching credentials behind their name. And like, but for somebody that's done to work, let's talk about credentials, man. Your question was does it piss me off when people do that? Yeah. No, it does it piss me off. I get a little disappointed. I get disappointed and I get concerned. I get disappointed because I think that we're living in a really interesting anti-intellectual

27:58moment right now where the opportunity gap is so wide. And there's so many people on the not receiving end of the opportunity, whether it's the opportunity to further education in college, whether it's the opportunity to gain certain skills, the opportunity to learn how to research because Googling something is not research. It's just it's Googling. You know, that's not what research is. Research, real research can't be found just in the simple Google search. It's not how it works. But I think there's so many people who aspire to be, who don't have the opportunity to be, that when someone comes, when someone is visible and they say, ah, you know, credentials don't matter or, you know, you don't have to go to college. Like the anti-intellectual rhetoric, it makes them feel like, oh, well, if you say that and you're there, then it's possible for me too. You know, I read on a sixth grade level because I was in a state with terrible education

29:02and I got socially promoted and I would love to be where you are. You saying that intellectualism is not the barrier between where I am and where you are. It makes me feel like this thing is possible for me. But that's a lie, man. That's a lie. And the soul is so much deception. So I get disappointed, but then I get concerned because credentials are there for a reason. I know we're getting told all the time that these things don't matter or, uh, inconsequential. Okay, I guess, but there's a lot of protection for people there, you know, it's one thing to say, even in my fields, one thing to say I'm a therapist and that's cool. It's one thing to say I'm a coach. You can call yourself whatever, but when you have taken the test and you have received the training and you have received the mentorship and the guidance and you have the hours. I mean, the hours of practicing, you can't replicate that.

30:04You can't replicate that. So then it becomes a safety concern when you're in front of people like a postpartum mother. When you're in front of people like a man wearing self-harming behaviors, when you're in front of people that says, hey, man, I think what do you, you're talking all that? Okay, a man says to front of you, it says, man, I've been abusing my wife for the last five years. What do you do? If you're not trained and you haven't taken those continuing education units and you haven't been mentored properly and you haven't sat across from someone who's dealt with that and walked them through it or someone who's been on the receiving end of abuse and walked them through that to some type of self-healing, then you don't know what you're doing. And we can say whatever we want on the internet, but when it comes to helping people and being the therapist is about helping people because the money is not good. Don't nobody get here to be rich. If you can't really make a meaningful change in those people's lives, what are you doing?

31:06What is all of it for? It's just the attention economy concerns me. And I think we're getting more desperate for attention. And I think, and I'm not talking about anybody in particular because it supplies the many, many, many folks. But I think the more we look for attention and notoriety, the less we hold on to some semblance of integrity and morality and ultimately, I don't know where human this goes after that. No, man. And I love that you brought up the intellectualism because I literally was in a debate three weeks ago on that same topic. And I use very similar words to you. And I, because I get asked all the time, like, the college change your life. Could you have been where you are without college? I'm like, wait, are you talking about the social aspect of college, the intellectual aspect of college? Because those are two different things. Because you're right. Those are two different things. And I could say maybe I didn't, or maybe one helped me in a way that another didn't.

32:09But what's critically important to me, and I don't care what filled you in. Even if it's not college, great. But are you continuously learning? Are you continuously getting those credentials and whatever field that you're in? Because to me, credentials are safety and protection. Yeah, for sure. And how I ended this debate and it truly was a debate was this. You get arrested. Do you want Pookie that can go AI and get some answers for you? Or do you want an actual credentialed past the bar attorney? That's right. Because here's what happens with credentialing. And this is why I believe in it. And this is why intellectual ism is so important to me. And you hit on it. When something goes left, I need that license person that understands why it's going left, how to steer it back, how to make the pivots and changes that are needed because that's their profession and that's what they do. Not someone who can go

33:14Google search someone or put something in the cloud or whatever and get a response. It's going to sound great. It's going to sound like, yep, I know what I'm talking about. But usually those perfect scenarios don't exist. And that's why you get the licenses. That's why you further the education. You continue the education because and I know that you know this. Some some law might have changed. And the past six months. Yeah. Right. Yeah. But now you can't say this word or this medicine exists that didn't exist. And now we got to verify it and make sure that it works. If you're not going through continuously educating yourself, keeping up with the proper credentials. Now, I don't layer you outdated, but now you've eliminated safety and protection for the people that you're supposed to be there. Absolutely. It says that I am a Biden. The credential said I am a Biden by a set of guidelines and rules that have been put in place by a governing body of experts. And they deemed me fit to do this duty. Not only that, but if I don't do it well, I am going to be

34:18held responsible. Right. I'm going to be held responsible. If I hurt someone or if I take someone off of the path that they choose and look, man, is the craziest thing about it for me is it's I think that the hours of practice is what we kind of sleep on. I think if I'm not mistaken, I could I could be wrong about this. But I think therapists in order to get our licenses, some states have a similar number of flight hours to a pilot. I don't think a commercial pilot, but I think a pilot. And you know, it's it's cool to land a plane when it's 70 and sunny. Don't you know, uh, yeah, what about when the wind is blowing 40 miles by hour north by north, west and the zero visibility and this hail coming down and you can't get a test with a radio control tower. Everybody still needs to get to the ground safely. So the the training matters. But I also think intellectualism kind of did this to itself by being so exclusionary.

35:23You know, sometimes people who are of a higher IQ or higher understanding or more worldly or more culture look down on people who aren't. And I said this on threads. You said, I say, I love when people intelligently disagree with me. I love that. But keep in mind, intelligent doesn't mean more educated. Right. Yeah. And just like smarter doesn't mean articulate. I know plenty of smart people that are my grandmother was not an articulate woman, but she was a brilliant woman. Different, different. So I think we kind of did it to ourselves with kind of like this more superiority value virtue signal and type thing and also think, you know, the political the place that our country is in politically also as fuel to that fire. You know, we hear this from the highest stations like, hey, that type of education is just not important by people who have that type of education. I just it's fascinating, man. It's fascinating how you can control what people think by by leaning into what they believe and repeating the same thing over and over. You can really bend people. You can make you can break people by doing that.

36:28Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Keir, man, like, I've always wanted to ask you this question. And so this segment I'm going to call the room. Was there a room, a moment, a dinner, a lunch and a meeting that truly changed your life? Like I can always go back to the first time that I met Damon John and I had a conversation. My life changed because I realized that there were paths that I needed to take. I realized that, oh, it's all about action. It's never about work. Now, I'll never forget that room in that moment. Was there a room? Was there a moment? Was there a meeting that you can look back at? It was like this changed the trajectory of my life or my career. I don't know if it was a room or a meeting necessarily. You know what? It was a conversation.

37:29It changed the trajectory of my life in an unlikely way. It wasn't a famous person. That's actually my barber. I ended up getting a new barber. I left my old barber because the energy was just bad. Talent to do, man, but the energy just wasn't there. I always left the chair feeling worse than I did when I came in. It's negative, man. So negative. I floated in between barbers from that when I landed at this guy I have now. There was a point where I was afraid to take my career to the next level. I'm afraid to tell people what to do because I didn't want to say the wrong thing because therapists really don't tell people what to do. I was afraid to expand. I wanted to offer courses, but I'm like, man, I can't charge somebody for a course. That doesn't make sense. Why would you who would pay for that? He's more of a miren goal, finance type of dude. They do the funnels and all these matrix scenes to make sure people buy. That's not my ministry.

38:30If I could, I would democratize wellness and have everything I say and do be free for everyone forever, but that's not sustainable. It's hard to record on these nice cameras when your family's homeless. He really got me comfortable with the idea that your mind is a commodity. Your mind is the commodity and the things that you think are obvious are not obvious to everybody. I knew that, but to hear the dude giving you a shape up, tell you something like that. It changed the way that I see what I could be in this business. Not just someone who has good ideas, but someone who can actually be a change maker, someone who can actually have an offering that extends beyond an Instagram page. Yeah, man. I don't have to charge. Charles and my father. He's a brilliant dude, man. I think he opened my eyes to that. It's crazy. All these big rooms are being in the beta one. I'm sitting down to get the haircut to change my life, right? Getting the dark season. Let's have this conversation with this shape up. That's right.

39:35I love it. Barber Shop conversations, man. Life change, bro. Life change. We talk about family. We talk about our kids. We talk about ourselves. We hold each other accountable. It's the only thing as a husband, father, entrepreneur. God, what else do I do? Media personality. All the stuff, all the stuff I am. That's the only thing that I do just for myself. Well, before I get you out of here with my rapid fire top five, I got to be remiss if I don't bring it up again. It all starts when you do. Everybody do me a favor. Let's go pre-order this book. Now this book will be a New York Times bestseller, so you don't want to try to order it when it's too late. Let's go get it right now. I'm going to do this here, man. Because I believe in the mission of everything that you do. I love this book and where it's going.

40:35The first 20 people that message me, I'm starting. Okay, if you do it on LinkedIn, if you do it on Instagram, but message me, I'm starting. I'm going to personally buy a copy of this book. Oh, because that's going to be life changing. Make a good deal. You're a different dude, bro. Not only do you have incredible lighting over there. Like I see you glowing, bro. You got to drop the skincare routine. You got me looking ashy over it. That's, man, anybody who's listening that makes audience, man. It's not many people you meet in this business that come across this authentically. That's rare, man. Thank you. Sincerely. I know that this is like, it's like a whole thing when you're doing a book and let's just pull the curtain real quick. When you're on tour and you're doing a book and you're selling a book, it's really about the thing that you're trying to get people to have this product in your hands so you can be successful. I'm trying to get people to get this in their hands so they can be successful. You know,

41:35it's going to do that. So I appreciate you, brother. Real talk. I appreciate that. I appreciate you back. I appreciate you back. And another thing too, and I meant to do this earlier because I've listened to the what nine episodes deep now new podcast. You learn the hard way. There was some amazing things with the podcast too. So I need everybody here, name of the podcast. So they got it. Learn the hard way. Here's something I wish somebody had told me earlier. Your money should work for you, not nickel and dime you with fees. That's why chime caught my attention. Chime is changing the way people bank. They're not like traditional old banks that charge fees and gatekeep perks and rewards. Chime offers the most rewarding fee-free banking with no overdraft fees, no monthly fees and no minimum balance fees. You can get 5% cash back on the chime card in a category you choose like gas or groceries while building credit through regular everyday spending with no credit check. You can also grow your money faster with a savings rate

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43:39wild caught seafood, and more. All source to standards they can actually tell you about. They've already done the research and made the tough sourcing decisions so all you have to do is decide what's for dinner. If you're looking for an easier way to get great meals on the table, give butcher box a try. Go to butcherbox.com slash mick to get $20 off your first box. Plus your choice of free ribeye, New York strip, or filet mignon in every box for a year with free shipping always. That's butcherbox.com slash mick. Again, that's butcherbox.com slash mick. Be sure to use our link so they know we sent you. Learn the heartway. Go follow it. Apple Spotify, YouTube, wherever you stream your podcast is a really, really dope, really inspiring, really factual show. I love it from beginning to end. So yeah, everybody make sure that you are

44:42subscribing to that podcast. Thanks. I meant to do that earlier in the intro, bro. All a good time, bro. No worries. There it is. All right. I'm gonna get you out of here on these top five. Are you ready? Let's do it. All right. So you are DC's finest. Yeah. What is your favorite restaurant in DC in chocolate city? God dang. Oh, man. You put me on. Oh, you know, my favorite restaurant in DC is, what's my favorite restaurant? Hold on. Make you smoke me with this one. What's your favorite place to get your hot? Yeah, man. You came off the top road with the metal chair. There is a restaurant called Sequoia. It is on 14th Street. It's a sushi restaurant. Okay. I got cool with the chef, man. And they got this tour all over your sushi guy, but they got this fatty tuna. They hit it with the blowtouch. Squeeze a little orange zest on it.

45:45Man, this sushi so fresh. Got great new dishes with my favorite place to eat in the city. Right. I'm gonna check. I'm back in DC in a couple of months. So I'm gonna be okay. Oh, hit me up, man. Hit me up. I'll show you the time. Let's do it. Let's do it. Who is the better cook in the household? You are wifey. Oh, man. My wife is a Haitian woman. Have you ever had Haitian food before? I have. I don't need to ask any more questions. Yo, I'm getting embarrassed over here. Copy it to her. She's amazing. This one of the first things she did was cook for me while we were dating. And I tasted her coconut jasmine bismonding rice and I was like, yeah, I ain't going nowhere. That's a man I'm cooking rice again. Yeah. I'm done. I'm done. I'm done. I retire. All right. Question number three, bro. Like what is a book you recommend that is not your book. It all starts when you do. Can I do two? You sure can. One is I'm reading this book

46:53right now. Cold. You know what? No, let's let's start here. I will recommend a Tomic Habits. I think that's a pretty. Tomic Habits is a good one. And the coddling of the American mind by Jonathan Hate. I'm adding that to the list right now. Oh, yeah. Coddling American mind. That's a pretty good one. And for black men specifically, Black Boy Smile by Dee Watkins is a really good book. And also a long way down by Jason Reynolds is a really good book. Adding that one to the list too. Yeah. I'm a huge read. Black men need to read more fiction by the way. I truly believe that. Yeah. Yeah. Agree. Agree. In wellness, what's one trend that needs to be challenged? Like what's one trend you're seeing that is like, I don't know if I agree with that one. In wellness? Yeah.

47:57Walk away from the things that don't serve you. I don't necessarily agree with that. I think that's well-dressed avoidance. Sometimes things don't serve you. You need to walk away from them. But be curious about the things that don't serve you. Why don't they serve you? Is it that they don't serve you anymore? Is it that you change? Is it that they change? Is it that things changed around you? I think that we to easily give up and walk away from things that end convenient force. There it is. I like it. I like it. Last one, Keith. Your story is being written right now. I believe that. What are two words that you want to make sure define who you are in your legacy? Well, I'm always weird about legacy because I feel like legacy is for me to make not enjoy. I believe that too. I believe that too. I would say I would say authentic. I don't think there's anything that's more of a nod to your

48:59lineage than you mean who you are, who you really are. Incosistent, man. I think it's one thing to show up. But if you could show up in different areas in the same way with the same fervor, with the same velocity, with the same love and the same integral impact, I think that says a lot about you, man. So authenticity and consistency, those are my two. What about you? What about you? What about you? What about you? What about you? What about you? What about you? What about you? What about you? Man, mine is very simple. Capped promises. If I give you a promise, I'm going to keep it doing that. Yeah. And that's what I want my two words. I care about promises, man. I love that, man. I'm changing my mind. My ass kept promises now. I'm still in it. I ain't giving it back. I made it up. Nope. Nope. Nope. We added in that out. Now I'll joke.

50:00No, I love that, man. I love that. I think more of us need to keep our promises. Not just to the world, but to ourselves too. Yeah, because what that's allowed me to do is actually make the right promises, right? Like if I tell somebody I promise, like I know I'm going to keep, which means I don't say it a lot. Yeah. Because I'm not just going to inflate something. I'm not going to over promise I under deliver. So if I give you my word, like trust me, everything that's in me is going to keep that word. That makes it mean. Well, nah, that's brilliant. I love that. Yes, sir. Well, Kia, man, I know how busy you are. I know you got so much going on. I'm completely honored to have you on everybody. LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTube, go do that. We have links to the book and the show notes in the descriptions. Remember the first 20 people that message me that you are starting. So I'm starting. I'm going to make sure you get 20 copies. If you're number 21,

51:01number 51, whatever, just go buy the book. It's okay. Amazon, Barnes and Noble. Every one of the books is on your local bookstore. Just go get the book because it's going to change your life. And it's a book that's going to actually help you. Right. Like it's a book meant for you. And I think that's why I love the intentionality around the book. So here I appreciate you. Man, thank you for seeing that. That's why I wrote a book. I appreciate you, mate. Absolutely. Absolutely. To all the viewers and listeners, remember, your becaus is your superpower. Go unleash it.