Kimberly Stephan and Dennis Young

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Hello, everyone and welcome, episode 457 of the True Crime All the Time Unsolved Podcast.

I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime might give some

give me how are you?

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She means what she says.

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Yeah, thanks for the new support.

The continued support.

It all means a lot.

We have an episode out right now on True Cromwell Time,

where we're talking about Erica Green.

And Erica Green was a young girl who was found dead.

She was unidentified for four years and known as precious stuff.

And then after she was identified,

her killers became known and who they were was kind of shocking.

And it was a hard episode for us to do because we did not like them at all.

We did not.

I was really pissed off.

Yeah, they were terrible people.

And I'm assuming still are.

Yeah, people like that don't change.

All right, buddy.

Are you ready to get into this episode of True Cromwell The Time Unsolved?

I am.

On February 23rd, 1997,

the bodies of 33-year-old Kimberly Staffan

and 55-year-old Dennis Young were found shot to death inside Dennis's home in Greenville, Ohio.

At the time of her death,

Kimberly was in the process of finalizing her divorce from her abusive husband,

who police identified as the prime suspect.

So there's a couple of things that jump out.

I mean, number one is we're doing a case close to home.

Greenville is very close to us.

It is.

And then number two,

how many times Gibbs have we heard of this?

A woman is killed while she's in the process of either trying to leave an abusive husband

or in this case, finalizing a divorce from an abusive husband or partner, right?

It can be either.

And the fact that they're coming out and naming him the prime suspect.

We know just based on the fact of who he is.

He's going to be on the police radar at the top,

but to actually say prime suspect,

okay, what's that tell you?

I mean, it says a lot actually,

but typically police are pretty careful about stating things like that.

Yeah, so I mean, I think that means a heck of a lot,

if they're going to come right out and say it.

Kim Staffan was born in Greenville, Ohio on October 1st, 1957.

She had two sons, Jamie Stevens and Jackie Lawson from her prior marriages,

Kim earned an accounting degree so she could make more money to support her children.

She worked as the accounting manager for the Council on Rural Service Programs.

Kim's co-workers later created a victim's assistance fund in her memory.

Natalie Malat told the Greenville Daily Advocate in 1997,

Kim was always a person with a smile on her face and willing to talk.

She never wanted anyone to feel alone.

And by forming this coalition and memory of Denny and her,

we felt we could increase the awareness of the domestic violence problem and let her smile live on.

And it is something we do see, right?

Obviously, there is a tragedy, but in the wake of that tragedy,

people are trying to do some good things, right?

Often in the name of the victim or victims, as is the case here,

Kim married her third husband, Robert Bob Staffan in 1991.

She and her sons lived with Bob until October 1996 when Kim filed for divorce.

Kim filed a domestic violence report against Bob that same month.

Her restraining order demanded that he be forbidden from contacting

annoying, harassing, molesting, striking, injuring, or disturbing her during the divorce process

per the Cincinnati inquiry.

It's a pretty thorough order.

That's pretty comprehensive language, right?

Basically, don't do anything.

Stay away.

Kim's friend, John Thompson recalled to investigators years later.

Kim said he's crazy.

She scared the death of him.

Kim's friend, Bethany Gonzales said in an interview, she didn't like the way he treated the boys.

She talked about the bruises and being slapped around.

And unfortunately, we do have to talk about domestic violence quite a bit

because it crops up in so many of these cases.

It's just an ongoing problem that needs to be stamped out.

I just have no idea how to make that happen.

Or how it's going to come about.

But you're right.

It needs to stop.

And there's another thing of if I can't have her, nobody can have her or have them.

Yes, that mindset needs to be removed.

Yeah, I agree, because it just never seems to work out well.

Kim's brother-in-law, Shane Murray, visited her in October 1996 before she filed for divorce.

He said in a phone interview for the show Cold Justice.

She was very miserable.

She was just in real bad marital status.

She told us that she was leaving him.

There's no way to patch things up, she said.

And she wanted just to be as far away as possible from him.

The following day, he accused her of screwing around on him.

He's waving a gun around, telling her he's going to kill her and her kids.

If she leaves, that's what she told us directly.

Said he'd burn everything she owned if she left that house.

That's what I have a problem with, right?

I mean, there's going to be unhappy relationships.

What does that solve by saying, I don't care if you don't want many more.

You're not leaving here.

You're going to stay with me.

And if you leave, I'm going to kill you.

I'm going to kill the kids.

I'm going to burn the house.

Everything down.

What does that really solve?

Yeah, because how's the relationship going to be, even if that person stays

because they're afraid of yes.

But to me, it's not about the relationship.

Maybe so much is, I think for these guys or a lot of these guys,

it's just around the control.

Absolutely.

They just want the control.

It's not really how good the relationship is or any of them.

So if she leaves, he loses the control.

If he's able to make her stay, he keeps the control.

And that's what it's all about.

According to Shane, Bob had the phone wires unhooked from the home

and disabled the car to prevent Kim from leaving.

He told her she couldn't have contact with the outside world.

There you go.

That's total control.

It is.

And again, I don't know how this would ever work out well.

How you could ever build a meaningful or have a meaningful relationship

from this kind of condo.

Well, there's no trust, right?

You don't trust me because you are unhooking the phone the way to get the car started.

You are basically kidnapping me, holding me hostage here.

And don't forget, threatened my life, the life of my kids, all that.

Kim told her family at one point, if we leave, he's going to kill us.

Kim and her sons moved into their own place after she filed for divorce.

Around Thanksgiving, 1996, she started dating 55-year-old Dennis Young.

The manager of a local Speedway gas station.

Dennis had lived in Greenville most of his life and was well known in the community.

Dennis's brother, Steven, recalled that people stopped at the gas station on their way to work,

just to see Dennis.

Dennis was married for 30 years and had four adult children.

His daughter, Joy Frye, said that Dennis was a good husband, father and grandfather.

Dennis lost his wife to cancer.

In 1994, he also had throat cancer, but recovered.

Dennis's sister, Sherry Van, said that after he lost his wife, he went off the deep end,

but was doing better and enjoying life again by the time he started dating Kim.

So it sounds like a really good guy.

If he's the type of guy that people look forward to stopping into the gas station,

just so they can say hi to him and he makes them feel better.

Yeah, you get a sense of what type of guy this was.

Sherry told the daily advocate, he was totally a family man.

He never met an enemy.

He enjoyed life and his family.

Bob, Stefan made comments to people about his displeasure at Kim's new relationship.

And that doesn't shock me one bit.

We've already talked about what kind of guy this person was.

He threatened to kill Kim and her sons.

Does it shock you in any way?

He's not going to be happy when she's dating someone.

Well, yeah, I mean, he didn't even want her to leave the house.

But now she's finally gotten away from him and she's found what seems to be a good guy.

Everybody says this is a good guy.

She might actually start to be happy and not only has he lost control over her,

well, now she's happy.

So he can't be happy about that either.

What do you mean you're happy?

You're happy without me?

How can that be?

Deanna Young, a bartender at the local American Legion post said that sometimes Bob came in

and was quiet.

Other times he came in, got drunk and talked about his problems.

He mentioned that he drove past Kim's house.

So a few times to see whose car was there.

He told Deanna he was thinking about ending his life

and once he loaded gun to his head.

Okay.

Now bartenders hear a lot.

They do.

But I don't know if he had this gun at the bar to his head

or he was relaying that he had it to his head somewhere else outside the bar.

But to me, what really kind of sparks my interest

is this notion of driving by Kim's house all the time.

Again, looking to see whose car is there.

It's like he just can't let go.

Well, you know, he made the mess.

According to her, he made this mess and she didn't want to be part of it anymore.

And clearly he wasn't able to get past that.

The only person he has to blame is himself.

I feel bad for somebody if they really were really talking about ending their life

to a bartender, you know, clearly maybe he needed some help.

But again, it sounds like he put himself into that.

Situation.

Well, he definitely did as far as it, as far as Kim is concerned in their relationship.

In early 1997, a bartender at Gallagher's bar

witnessed a heated exchange of words between Bob and Dennis.

Now, she couldn't hear what was said, but it was clear Bob was upset.

Bob eventually left and Dennis sat at the bar without saying anything.

Dennis's mother Cecilia told the daily advocate that he received threats.

She warned him to be careful.

According to Cecilia, he told me, oh, mom, you watch too many television shows.

I told him he'd come in the darkness of the night.

He went to the police, but they said they couldn't help him until he was harmed.

By the time he was harmed, it was too late.

Yeah, you hate to hear that, right?

You know, can't really do much for you until you're harmed.

But sometimes harm means kill.

Yeah.

And then it's too late to do anything on the night of February 22nd, 1997.

Kim and Dennis went to two bars in downtown Greenville.

They were last seen together around one 30 a.m.

On February 23rd, leaving a bar called bumpers.

They left together in Dennis's car to go back to his duplex on North Chippewa Drive in Greenville.

Kim's sons were staying with their aunt and uncle.

And last saw her on the evening of February 22nd.

Before she went out, they couldn't get in contact with her all day on February 23rd

and went to Dennis's house looking for her on the morning of February 24th, 1997.

Kimson, Jamie, said in his interview for the show called justice that he called Dennis's house,

but the line was busy all day.

He called again on the morning of the 24th and it was still busy.

So he knew something was wrong.

Yeah, but he had that feeling you get when you know something's not right.

Yeah, you just have like a pit in your stomach.

You feel like, oh, something bad has happened.

Yeah.

Their uncle took them to Dennis's home on their way to school.

Jackie saw that the front door was locked.

So he walked around the house and found the glass sliding door open a few inches,

which was something Dennis never did.

He entered the house and found Kim and Dennis dead on the floor.

And it was neighbors who heard the boy screaming after they found their mother's body.

Oh, man, I can't just can't imagine what that would have been like.

I mean, they were on their way to school.

Yeah, something they did every day.

Normal stuff, right?

Yeah, sure, they're worried about their mom, but in a million years,

they couldn't have guessed that they were going to find her and Dennis dead in his home.

Hear them cry out like that.

Neighbor Cliff Fleetwood, who lived across from the crime scene,

told the daily advocate.

I didn't know anything was going on until her son started running around the house

across the street screaming and then came and used our phone.

When he came in the house, we tried to console him.

He was yelling, my mom and Denny are dead.

My wife and I both prayed for them.

Means tragic.

According to the daily advocate, Kim Sons went to the police department

shortly before 8am and told the patrolman their mother was dead.

The patrolman followed the boys to the address and requested a detective rescue squad

in the fire department.

Be sent to the house.

He told dispatch the scene looked suspicious, but there were no immediate signs of foul play.

The fire department checked for possible carbon monoxide fumes, but

everything was within normal range.

Kim and Dennis were lying face down in the front dining area.

They were fully clothed and actually still wearing their coats,

indicating they died as soon as they entered the home.

Well, it sounds like their killer was waiting for him inside the house.

Yeah, it's an interesting fact of the crime scene.

Obviously, these people hadn't yet had a chance to take their coats up.

And I think that tells you a lot.

Yeah.

Kim's head was on Dennis's leg and she was clutching his pamphlet.

Kim was shot three times in the torso.

Dennis was shot twice and had 10 deep incision wounds on his neck.

Wow.

So very brutal.

Some rage there.

Yeah, I think so.

And like we said, right, there's clear evidence that the killer had been lying in wait.

Also, the phone and cable wires at the back patio were cut

and the sliding glass door had been pride open.

The thermostat had been turned up to about 90 degrees,

possibly to speed up decomposition and cause confusion about the time of death.

And we've seen that in other cases as well.

Yeah.

I mean, but somebody has to have a little bit of knowledge to figure that out.

Yeah, some knowledge of decomp and things like that.

Now you could get that from watching TV shows or whatever.

I'm still wondering why thermostats go up to 90 degrees.

Who is putting their thermostat on 90 degrees?

You know, I'm going to say when my mom towards the end of her life,

she would kick that bad boy up a lot.

Like, was it in the 80s?

Yeah, it was up in the mid 80s and I'd go over there and be like, Mom, what are you doing?

You know, I'd be taking off clothes when I walked in that door just like

and didn't feel like I was suffocating to turn that thing down.

That's like, you know, my wife's car, the speedometer goes up to 180.

Yeah.

I know for a fact her car will not go 180.

Yeah.

You don't need to put it up that high.

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So you mentioned, right, a little premeditation.

The person had to know something about doing this, putting the heat on.

But it also tells me that they didn't expect the bodies to be found as quickly as they were.

Yeah.

They thought this heat maybe would have a chance to work for some period of time.

Now, once the bodies are found though, the heat's still going to be at 90 degrees.

And like I said, nobody sets their heat at 90 so

isn't the corner then going to take that and factor it in.

You would think, right?

So it kind of works against what you're trying to do probably.

Police initially told the media that they didn't know the caliber of weapon used.

But it appeared Dennis's gun cabinet had been tampered with.

Investigators soon confirmed that Kim and Dennis were killed by a 22 caliber gun

taken from Dennis's gun cabinet.

This gun cabinet was in one of the bedrooms.

And after removing the gun,

the killer fired a test round into a pillow in the bedroom.

Okay.

Wanted to make sure it actually would fire?

I guess.

Now, the murder weapon was never found.

But the knife used the stab Dennis was found in the kitchen sink.

And only his blood was found on it.

So a couple of things jump out of me.

Number one, the killer apparently doesn't bring a gun or any type of weapon with them.

Because both of the implements they use came from Dennis's house.

Yeah.

So a, did the person know that Dennis had a gun save or did he just

stumble upon it walking around the house?

Now, I think most people would reasonably know that they're going to be able to find a knife

in the kitchen.

Yeah, that's true.

So you could make that argument.

Maybe that was the plan all along and he stumbled upon the gun safe and thought,

well, this will be better.

Right.

So let me try one of these out and make sure it fires first and it did.

But I think it does say something when the person doesn't come armed with anything.

But they broke into the house and laid in wait.

So they had plans.

So maybe with somebody that didn't plan on doing something at that moment,

but the rage overtook them that night.

Or maybe they weren't expecting them to come home.

Maybe.

And we're surprised.

I don't know.

I think maybe you're probably more on the right track.

And then I think the second thing was only Dennis's blood being found on it.

You know, we've talked a lot about

stabbing and it's very common for the perpetrator to cut themselves,

especially with, you know, larger number of stab wounds.

It's very easy for your hand to slip down the blade and for you to get cut.

But that couldn't have happened here.

Well, yes, but you know, I think it happens more when you have the

victim fighting against you.

But if the victim in this case, you know, Dennis was dying or early dead

from the gunshot wound, then there would be less fighting back.

Yeah, I think that's true.

The daily advocate reported that an hour into the investigation

and employee at a local doctor's office informed police of a suspicious vehicle

in the back lot of the office.

The car was Kim's and it was parked sideways.

It was found in eighth of a mile from the crime scene.

A yellow glove was found near the lot.

Police interviewed Bob Staffin on February 24th.

He was the only suspect, but he was not arrested.

Bob talked to his attorney and allowed police to search two addresses.

But nothing was found.

According to the Cincinnati inquirer,

Kim stood to get half of some farmland.

She and Bob owned.

Bob was also the sole beneficiary to Kim's insurance policy.

So there's some motive.

There's definitely some monetary motive.

We've already talked about the controlling aspect of his behavior.

Now we're drawing into the mix.

What could be, and we don't know the exact amounts.

But what could be, you know, a sizable amount of money?

Yeah.

Between the half of the farmland and the life insurance payout.

At the time of the murders, the divorce proceedings were coming to an end.

Just six days before Kim was killed.

A judge scheduled a hearing to finalize the divorce in March.

So I mean, you can make of that a few things.

I think probably a lot of people will look at it as time was running out.

And maybe, you know, Bob had to act before it was finalized.

Yeah, because once it's finalized, then she's legally gone from his life.

And whatever the judge decides to do about splitting up property and things like that

will take place.

And in the event of her death, would go to somebody else when I heard.

Exactly.

Bob didn't have a strong alibi for the night of the murders.

He went on a date set up by his friend, Patti Burton, which ended at 830 pm.

Patti's from the Dayton area.

She met Bob a handyman when he worked on sinks and cabinets in her house.

The woman Bob went on a date with was Dana Williams.

Dana worked as a nurse and a one point cared for Patti Burton's husband.

Years later, she did an on camera interview with investigators for the show called justice.

She said she agreed to go on the blind date with Bob if Patti went to Bob didn't say much.

And Patti did most of the talking.

They went to a church and to a barn.

Dana had to go home around 830 because she had worked the next day.

Bob left with Patti in his original interview.

Bob told police he left Patti's house at approximately 830 pm.

He admitted that he drove by Kim's place on the way into town.

He didn't see her car.

So he went around the block to the American Legion post.

He continued driving to see if his brother was home and then returned home down back country roads.

It just seems like a lot of the time is really not accounted for.

Yeah, and I think that's why people said, you know, just wasn't really a strong alibi.

When you say that you're kind of driving down back country roads, okay.

How long did it take you?

Now there was a bartender at the American Legion post who reportedly saw Bob that night,

but that man has since died.

According to the daily advocate, Bob Stephens life was threatened.

After police said he was the only suspect in the murders.

Anonymous calls were placed to the Dark County Sheriff's Office and the Greenville Police

Department, which Bob was made aware of.

But he continued to be the prime suspect.

Even though there was a rumor in town that Kim's sons committed the murders,

however, there's no evidence to support this rumor.

And the crime scene was too methodical to have been planned by young children.

I mean, Kim's older son was only 15 at the time of the murder.

So a lot of people who kind of have looked at this case just think,

there's no way two kids that young, the oldest being 15, could have really planned this out

and carried it out in the methodical way it was.

Not really that believable.

On February 26, police acted on a tip and searched Greenville Creek

in hopes of finding the murder weapon.

This area was just a mile from Bob's home.

During the search, a passing motor stopped on the bridge and told officers,

if you're looking for the weapon down there, you might as well stop.

If you want the gun, you'd better go look on down the road.

No, that's interesting.

That's so strange.

Hey, officers, if you're looking for the weapon, you're looking in the wrong place.

Go down this way.

Yeah, you might find it down there.

How in the world would you know that?

I mean, I would have been like, hey, buddy, jump in my cruiser.

Let's go down and you kind of point out where you think I should be looking at.

We're at the very least, you know, let me in on this inside that you have.

Yeah, how you know it.

So police were searching for this man who drove off in a Maroon Ford F-150 truck.

I get that.

I can see how they would want to talk to him a little bit more between March 8 and March 14,

1997.

Someone broke into Kim's home.

Her son reported the burglary and indicated that someone went through her drawers

and took two birth certificates and miscellaneous papers.

Okay.

It seems strange.

A very strange right for a burglar to target birth certificates and miscellaneous papers.

Not gold, silver, antiques, televisions, DVD players, things like that,

birth certificates.

Maybe the miscellaneous papers were related to the life insurance.

Yeah, I didn't find a lot more about, you know, what the miscellaneous papers actually were.

But I think, you know, for me, the point is what burglar

breaks into a home to steal a bunch of papers.

Yeah.

Not many.

That kind of skews towards the perpetrator knowing the victim and being there for very specific

items for very specific reasons.

In early November, 1997, Bob Stefan was charged with phone harassment of Kim's family.

He remained silent on the other end of the line when they answered the phone

and put a block on his line so it wouldn't show up on caller ID.

But obviously they must have figured out it was him, right?

The authorities, they charged him.

But, you know, the question I would ask is, why?

Yeah, why would you do something like that?

You know, regardless of whether Bob had anything to do with these murders,

why would you call and harass her family?

Is that more along the lines of control, right?

You are making people feel a certain way, right?

And is that giving him a sense of control?

It must have.

On November 30, deputies responded to the Fort Jefferson cemetery on a reporter shot's fired.

When they arrived, they found Bob Stefan in his truck, unloading bullets from his handgun.

Kim's family was visiting her grave when Bob arrived, threatened them,

and pointed a loaded gun at them.

Yeah, this guy is not okay.

Nothing he's doing is making sense.

First of all, if you didn't have anything to do with the murders,

you're really making it look to other people like you did.

Absolutely you are.

And if you did have something to do, why would you even want to draw attention to yourself?

Is he trying to say, hey, nobody should be able to come visit her?

Because she still belongs to me.

I don't know.

I'm almost getting this feeling like, you know, he can no longer control Kim.

So he's going to try to start controlling her family.

Yeah, it seems like it.

But according to Kim's brother-in-law, Shane Murray,

he and Kim's brother, Tony Dunnevek,

came to the cemetery to visit her grave.

They were kneeling at the graveside when they saw Bob's truck pass by the cemetery,

turn around and block their truck in.

Every time they tried to back out, Bob would move his truck to block them.

He held them at gunpoint for 30 minutes.

According to Shane Murray, he'd put the gun up to the window,

point it to the side so we could see it was a gun and then he would cock it.

He kept waving it at us off and on for a good half hour before we got out of there.

I mean, either this guy is experiencing some mental health issues,

because that's one possibility.

Or like I said, he is so, he's just trying to control her family in any way possible,

scaring them, right, by calling and not saying anything.

Is he driving by her grave just to see if any of her family are out there?

And then he, if so, he pulls in.

I mean, it sounds like it.

Because let's not forget, he did drive by her house a lot after she left him.

But this sound like something that could have really escalated.

Well, anytime you have a gun, things can escalate quickly.

First of all, you don't know if one of these two guys has a gun and a truck.

Exactly.

I can tell you if right now, in rural Ohio, there's a very good chance that someone will.

Yeah, you're right.

For sure, this could have went sideways really quick.

And at the very least, it's criminal, right?

What he's doing is a criminal act.

Yeah.

You cannot threaten people.

You can't point a gun at a person for no reason.

And you can't let them not leave.

Right, there's all, there's a bevy of charges.

I think that you can be looking at for that.

Yeah.

When Murray was able to get away, he drove to the home of Kim's stepfather, Bud Penny, who lived

less than a mile from the cemetery and called 911.

Murray told the daily advocate, I truly thought he was going to kill us.

I still don't know why he didn't pull the trigger.

Penny and his son, buddy, then drove down to the cemetery and they got into a verbal

confrontation with Bob.

Shortly after Murray and Dunnevant returned and found Bob parked beside Kim's grave,

he pointed the gun at Bud Penny and said it was their last warning.

And the next time he was going to pull the trigger, the police arrived shortly after.

Can we talk about this guy, bud, Penny for a moment?

He and his son go down to confront Bob after they've already been told he's got a loaded gun

and he's waving it around.

All right.

That takes some a little bit of stones.

It does.

But there's just some people, you know, we're going to say, hey, I don't like what you're doing.

If I got people want to visit this gravesite, they should be able to visit this gravesite

without you coming in here harassing them.

What do you want to do?

Shoot me.

Now, but the other thing that jumped down to me is, does Bob's step then not realize that

the police are going to be headed his way?

It's almost like he wasn't phased by it.

I kind of wonder if he was okay.

Yeah, me too.

Yeah, I'm wondering that as well.

Bob was charged with improper handling of a firearm, aggravated menacing, drug paraphernalia

and drug abuse.

Officers found marijuana under the seat of his truck.

I mean, it sounds like they could have probably charged him with a few more things too, but

yes, something.

I don't know if it's kidnapping, but there is a charge about not letting someone leave.

Kim step sister Theresa Murray said about the charges and the fact that Bob may bond

hours after he was arrested.

At first, I thought this was a step in the right direction, but with just misdemeanor charges

for pointing a loaded gun at someone and saying you plan to kill them.

I don't know.

I can't believe someone can get out jail for doing something like this.

Well, I can believe that someone can get out of jail, but I am kind of surprised that

this only resulted in misdemeanor charges because like you said, I feel like

they really could have thrown the book at him as far as charging him, but maybe they didn't

have the evidence.

Maybe they didn't believe the word of these two people.

I really don't know.

Yeah, I mean, at least they were able to witness some of the things when they got there,

but they weren't able to witness what happened to the two other guys because

they weren't there when all that happened.

Yeah.

Yeah, maybe this part about him not letting them leave the cemetery.

Maybe they just couldn't corroborate that.

I don't know.

Greenville police were also investigating other reports of phone harassment

and alleged stalking of family members.

Kim Sun Jamie was chased by Bob late on November 28.

According to Jamie, he was forced out of a bowling out and chased by Bob and his truck

for four blocks until he got to his aunt's house.

Then his sister Sherry Vance also said she saw Bob drive by her home at 2.30 a.m.

on November 30.

So for me, you know, of all these accounts are correct.

It's like this guy is obsessed.

Maybe he was obsessed with the victims.

Right.

Again, this is if he had anything to do with the murders.

Sure.

But he obviously was obsessed with their family.

Yeah, clearly.

If these things are true because after the murders,

he's doing all kinds of things to family members.

It's like he can't leave them alone.

Just because he's trying to hang on to it.

Any piece of her through these family members?

I don't know.

I do think control is such a big deal with some of these individuals.

And they get control or that feeling of control from all kinds of different things.

A year after the murders, it was reported that Bob Stefan remained the prime suspect.

By this time, both families had offered rewards.

Hired PIs and questioned police as to why no arrest had been made yet.

On May 12, 1998, Bob Stefan pleaded no contest to possession of a loaded firearm

in a motor vehicle and drug abuse.

He opted to take a plea deal minutes before his trial was supposed to start.

The prosecution agreed to dismiss the aggravated menacing and drug paraphernalia charge

and recommended the maximum penalties on the drug abuse and possession charges.

He received a $1,000 fine for carrying a loaded firearm in a vehicle

and a $100 fine for the drug abuse charge.

He was ordered to spend 180 days in jail with all but three days suspended.

On the condition, he had no similar violations for a year.

So from all of that, he did three days in jail and paid $1,100 fine.

Pretty much a slap on the wrist.

Yeah, I mean, again, how much could they corroborate, right?

Was it just these guys' word against his?

I mean, there's a lot of factors here and we don't really know the answers to some of that.

Bob also agreed to forfeit the gun.

He possessed at the time of the incident and to have no contact with the victim's family.

That's a big one there.

That is a big one.

If he can honor it.

Because I do believe he was in stocking harassment mode.

For what reasons we don't really know.

The murder of Kim, Staffan, and Denisham remains a cold case.

In 2015, the show Cold Justice covered the case and investigators re-interviewed witnesses

as part of the episode, a confidential informant who knew Bob's friend, Patty Burton,

came forward a few years prior to filming and claimed Patty admitted to committing the murders.

The informant claimed they were with Patty and her nephew, Scott Myers.

The witness was warned about Patty prior to meeting her and was told to avoid her,

because she allegedly committed the murders.

They were all sitting around smoking marijuana and the conversation shifted to murders.

When Patty allegedly said she was involved, the witness thought she was joking,

but Patty reportedly said, no, I did it.

And that bitch got what she deserved.

Wow.

According to the witness, Patty was adamant about having committed the murders.

Now, police spoke to Patty's nephew, Scott Myers, who told a different story.

Myers alleged that Patty insinuated she did it, but never confessed outright.

All she said was, you know how it is, Scott, if you want something done, do it yourself.

So, you know, for me, coming out and admitting to people that you committed the murders,

that's that's pretty dumb.

But even insinuating that you had something to do with these murders,

it's not the smartest thing to do.

No, it's not.

Maybe she was just trying to make her sound tough.

Yeah, people do that sometimes.

Investigators found Patty and spoke to her again.

She was asked if she recalled making a comment that she got what she deserved.

Patty denied saying this.

She also denied going on the blind date with Bob and Dana Williams on the night of the murder.

Investigators believe that although Patty might have made certain claims,

her state of mind and the lack of evidence against her most likely ruled her out as a suspect.

The cold justice team also received new information from Kim's former landlord,

Forest Pittman, Bob worked for Pittman as a handyman.

One day, Kim came to Pittman's office and said she needed a rental because she was leaving Bob.

Pittman put her in the kids in the home she was living in at the time of the murders.

After the murders, when he was getting ready to put the house back up for rent,

he noticed that the outside vent for the furnace was disconnected, meaning the gas was not going

outside like it should. He said it didn't look accidental. He suspected Bob had tampered with it

to try to kill Kim and the kid.

Wow.

Again, some of this stuff, you know, these people who come forward,

even though some of them might be well-meaning, I don't really think there's a lot of evidence here.

If any, but it's interesting what they have to say. Yeah, that's theories and it's based on

things they claim they saw or heard. The cold justice team went to the DA with their information.

He said he felt encouraged and was going to review the case thoroughly.

Bob Stefan has never been charged with the murders, but he remains the only confirmed suspect.

Unfortunately, in this case, the physical evidence of is of limited value because there was no

biological material left behind by the shooter. That makes it tough. Yeah, so it doesn't sound like

you know, they have any DNA or really any type of or much physical evidence.

According to the Cincinnati inquirer, because the physical evidence they do have has already

been tested multiple times. There is nothing left. And that is, you know, the problem that you

run into in many cold cases, unsolved cases, you know, they used the physical evidence. They tested

it back when DNA wasn't as good. And now that it is so much better, a lot of times I don't have any

left to test. Yeah. And that's obviously a real problem because, you know, without new evidence,

it may be really hard if not impossible to solve this crime. That's what I was just thinking.

You know, this is one that might remain tactically unsolved. Yeah. I mean, as we wrap this thing up,

like I said in the beginning, the fact that the police even come out and say, Bob Stefan is the

prime suspect to me says a lot because normally police are really careful about who they call a

suspect versus a person of interest and and all of that. I will say, obviously, between what he would

have lost in the divorce and what he would have gained from Kim's life insurance, there is probably

a good there was probably a good deal of financial mode. Yeah, that makes sense. If you want to look at

it that way, and then there's this control aspect that we keep talking about, you know,

from the things that we've heard from Kim's friends and other people, family and friends,

he did seem like a pretty controlling person. Now, I don't know what to make of what he did

after the murders, kind of harassing or stalking her family and maybe even some of his,

you know, Denny's family members. Yeah. If all of that stuff that people said was correct,

why? What would be the point of that? Yeah, and why I put your spot like back on you again,

right? Well, could a person possibly be thumbing their nose at the police and the family?

Basically like, hey, I'm right here, but you can't do anything to me. Now, I'm not going to come out

and say I did it, but I'm going to keep messing with you. I don't understand the reasoning behind

it, but I'm just trying to come up with different theories as to why someone would do that if that's

the way it really went down. I mean, it just sounded like to me, he was somewhat unstable. Yeah,

I kind of thought that way too. And then you know, back to this theory, some people had that

Kim's sons were involved. You know, the oldest was 15. So obviously the younger one was even

younger than that. The way that this crime occurred with little very little physical evidence being

left behind, it doesn't seem like a young very young person committed these murders. Yeah, it

just does. What would have been the motive? What right? And then some rumors that say patty did it,

but then patty didn't really come out and say that she did it. So again, what was the motive there?

Just because according to the one rumor, she said the bitch got what she deserved. Yeah, I don't know.

Police having looked into it have said they don't think she did it. So yeah, I don't know,

they just thought she was running her mouth or didn't really say it. I don't know. I mean,

it's easy to see though, right? With everything that we talked about, why at the very least,

Bob would be a person of interest. He has to be a person of interest. Absolutely. And with everything,

he doesn't have a strong alibi. There's really probably no way that they could clear him. So

are they coming out and saying he's the prime suspect because they just really have nobody else.

Now it doesn't prove that he did it. No, it doesn't. Doesn't look great. No, he doesn't look good

at all, but that doesn't mean much in the court of law. Does not. So it could stay that way forever.

Yeah. I mean, he could die with this kind of hanging over his head as people think he's a killer.

He may be, he may not be. I have no idea. Yeah. And we may never know. Yeah, we may never know.

But that's it for our episode on the murders of Kimberly Staffin and Dennis Young. We've got

a voice mail. You want to check that out? It's here. Hi, Mike and Gibi. My name is McKinsey. I'm a

long time listener of your guys' podcast. And I really enjoy all of the podcasts that you guys

have put out. And I recently just listened to the Don Henry and Kevin Ives case. And you were

talking about Tommy Malik. And I'm not sure if you guys are aware, but he has been a ton,

a ton of podcasts where he has very, very questionable practice. And I'm not really sure what

podcast has been by in the 10 years that I've listened. He's been brought up on so many cases as being

very, very crooked. Not a very great medical investigator or whatever I guess he is called. But

yeah. So I was looking to him. Maybe you guys could come up with your own podcast just about him

in general because he's done a lot of crooked things with other cases. And yeah. So it was great

to talk to you guys. I hope that you have a good day and keep your own time. Take in. Bye.

Yeah. I'm not aware of that. Give in. And we've said this before we don't listen to other true

crime podcasts anymore just because we don't want to be tainted and say something that somebody

else said and be accused of that. But it doesn't surprise me because I mean the things that

this guy came up with were strange. Sure was. I mean go back to the 20 joints. Yeah.

I mean who spoke 20 joints even between two people. It didn't. It just didn't seem right. And

so yeah, I wouldn't surprise me at all. But thanks for the voicemail very much.

All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of True Crime All the Time Unsolved. So for Mike,

and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.

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