Kyle and Jackie O - what their show ending means for the radio industry

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Now one of Australia's biggest radio shows, Kyle and Jackie O, has ended Tuesday's announcement to the ASX, the Australian stock market.

Makes it clear that this is no stunt, the show is now off the air.

Kent Small is doing the breakfast show in both Sydney and Melbourne, although this is Australian radio, so he has to have a nickname, which is small Z, because of course it is.

Employment lawyers will now be involved in two of the biggest media legal cases in the country as things begin to get messy.

Jackie O Henderson is now saying that she didn't quit all resign in a statement that perhaps pointedly doesn't mention Kyle's name once.

Kyle, who has also taken time away from TV duties, is also reported to be priming his lawyers for a reported $88 million.

Potentially arguing that a similar argument on air last year wasn't treated as serious by ARN, his whole show was based on controversy.

And a slightly misguided view in my view that ARN's sensors should have prevented the argument going out, while there's plenty more informed coverage in the game changers radio podcast.

Now, this may look like a peculiarly Australian news story, but actually I think it raises questions for radio people everywhere, and here are just nine of them.

Question one, well, Kyle and Jackie O were on a massive pay packet, reported to be $200 million for 10 years, described by one radio executive as insanity.

That was signed at the top of the commercial radio wave a few years ago, but the industry has since seen a decline in revenue, and this contract seems entirely unrealistic now.

You'd suspect that ARN are pleased to have an excuse to terminate the show, to sign up for a 10 year contract in this media environment seems careless.

So question one, how long are your contracts?

That guaranteed income for Carl and Jackie O probably made them lazy and disinterested in staying at the top of their game, and there is considerable precedent for this in the UK.

Chris Evans, both on BBC Radio 1 and again on the original Virgin Radio, clearly went through a period of laziness and disinterest, which cost him his job on both stations.

Most creative people need to feel challenged to get the most out of them, so by offering them so much money, $50,000 per show, it also meant that they were less hungry to perform well, they earned so much money they just needed to turn up, not to be successful.

So question two, how do you pay your creative people?

It's also reported that the $200 million contract gave all creative control to Kyle, so ARN were unable to control the content of the show.

Now again, this is similar to Chris Evans who, as just as detailed in the Breaking Breakfast podcast, insisted that he was in charge of the content of his show.

Radio license holder needs control of its output. ARN put two sensors on the show ostensibly to stop anything bad going out, but quite what you can do with a 30 second delay is anyone's guess.

So question three, who is in control?

At the same time as Jackie Henderson signed her $200 million contract, she also started doing her own podcast called Her Best Life, co-hosted by her talent manager since 2022,

Gemma O'Neill, as part of a new venture called Besties. She left that in January.

Now, I think it's naive to claim that these shows were competing for audience, as I've heard some say this week, but the new project was certainly competing for Jackie and Gemma's attention.

When does a side project derail the main job is my question four?

The ACMA, Australia's media regulator, is relatively toothless in what it can do. It spent the last year investigating the output from Kyle and Jackie O, but still hasn't actually issued any license changes or fines in spite of hearing from ARN more than three months ago.

Now, in my view, there is a question over whether the ACMA is doing its legal duty under broadcast law.

I've got a freedom of information request out for ARN's representation, which you would assume would be public.

So my question five, what is ACMA doing? And who should resign from there?

The Mad Fudging Witches, that's not their real name, have been campaigning for a long while against advertisers who fund the show in a campaign called Vile Kyle.

And their website, I mean, if you're going to use the F word, if the title, then really you don't have much of a leg to stand on in terms of calling other people Vile.

But anyway, their website lists 48 advertisers who they say they've successfully convinced to stop advertising in the show.

There's no doubt that this has hurt ARN's revenue. Now, this group has been dismissed by many in the industry, but I don't think it should be people power matters.

So question six, how brand safe is your programming?

Kyle and Jackie O started simulcasting the Sydney show into Melbourne last year, making the show national was the only real way that ARN could ever hope to recoup some of the costs.

But that has been an object failure. Some industry pundits will tell you that it shows that radio needs to be local to succeed.

Others will tell you that it was just a bad show. And audiences in Melbourne were not familiar with the type of pure R programming that Carl and Jackie O have put out for years in Sydney.

I think it was the latter. And I wonder question seven, how important is local?

The biggest radio star that ARN now has is, with all due respect to Kent Smorzy Small, the breakfast host for gold, Christian O'Connell.

He's doing a breakfast show in Melbourne. And now in Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth.

He's the number one in Melbourne and the exact opposite of the craftness and the lewd output from Kyle.

He's a warm, professional presenter with a strong work ethic and a real hunger to succeed.

His first numbers come out on March 19th, survey one, always being an unusual one in Australia being six weeks long rather than the last two surveys mushed together as the rest of the year is.

Sydney's numbers will be keenly watched. So will the Brit teach the Aussies a thing or two? Is my question eight?

And what is kiss if it isn't Kyle and Jackie O?

Some industry pundits have suggested that the brand is so closely aligned with Kyle and Jackie O that it needs an entire reboot.

What's clear is that in most cities, kisses top 40 format is a highly competitive space with Nova and SCA's hit stations, also fighting for the audience, which is a much smaller audience in radio these days.

Gold operates in a space that's much easier to own with many more potential listeners.

And I've long argued that in Brisbane and who knows perhaps in Adelaide and Perth as well, kiss should move to digital only and 973 be used for gold.

ARN would be fools not to do that.

So my final question, question nine, how closely aligned is your station brand to your biggest star?

And what would happen if they leave?

It's a fascinating time in Australian radio, but there again, it's a fascinating time in radio overall and well worth keeping watch.

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Elsewhere in radio this week, the BBC appears to have pulled its Google speaker action or whatever you call these things.

Making it impossible to listen to BBC World Service.

From Australia, hey Google, play BBC World Service.

Now seems to default to random American radio stations overnight feed.

Now that always used to go via a thing branded on the screen with BBC sounds.

Then a thing just branded BBC.

I mean, you know, it's fine. It's not like there's a new World War or anything.

In the US, one of the largest radio operators, Cumulus Media, has filed for bankruptcy.

The company which owns the Cumulus Podcast Network and Westwood One,

is trying to eliminate around $600 million worth of debt.

It'll continue operating under chapter 11 protection in the meantime.

Competitors iHeart Media, filed for bankruptcy in March 2018.

Odyssey, filed for bankruptcy in January 2024.

And Cumulus itself, last filed for bankruptcy less than 10 years ago in November 2017.

In pod news, I love writing about the history of podcasting.

It's a 21 year old industry.

It's got surprisingly little information about the more esoteric parts of its history.

So I'm very proud of a new article that I've just been writing about Google Listen.

Now, Google Listen predated Apple podcasts by three years as a phone app.

And by all accounts did incredibly well as well.

But of course, Google being Google, they had to close the thing down.

Anyway, you'll find that linked from my newsletter at radialand.email.

Something I missed in Brisbane until I was driving past their studios earlier on today.

Christian Broadcaster, Family 96.5 or 96.5.

Is it 96.5? 96.5?

Anyway, it's now called Rise 96.5.

So they've got rid of family, which is a pretty good thing, particularly Carl and Jackie O.

And now they're calling it Rise, which I suppose is a little bit more obvious

that you're going to hear Christian music on there.

And finally, the BBC responded to a UK government consultation about the renewal of its royal charter

and how the Broadcaster will be funded in coming years.

We will explore opening up BBC sounds to UK third parties and creators the response claims,

which is a brilliant idea.

One the BBC trailed before the launch of BBC Sounds in 2018.

One the BBC press released at launch promoted again in its 2021 annual report

and has continued sporadically making piecemeal agreements like with Goldhanger in November 2024.

As ever, Radio France shows the way and as ever, the BBC appears to be pushing out new ideas or old ideas dressed as new.

I kind of wish they wouldn't.

Now, where am I speaking next?

I am really looking forward to Riga in Latvia two weeks.

I'm going via Hong Kong, don't worry.

I will be doing two things.

I'm talking with Steve Jones of Stingray on tune in on Canadian radio and on more things like that.

If you have questions for me to ask, I would love to ask them.

Please do send them.

James at crit.land is my email address.

That would be fantastic because I'm very much looking forward to getting under the hood of tune in, which the company now owns.

But also talking about cancon and all of that kind of stuff and regulation.

Anyway, very much looking forward to doing that.

And also very much looking forward to a thing that I'm doing.

I think first thing on the Tuesday morning, the future of audio is people powered.

And I will be talking about what the future of radio really is.

I can tell you now that I now have one slide.

So that's good.

I've started.

So looking forward to putting that together and looking forward to doing that in a couple of weeks time.

It's not long now.

I'm also speaking at the podcast show in London in May.

Keynoting at that event giving the I'll tell you now giving the results of the pod news report card, which is a piece of yearly research.

The pod news puts together.

So looking forward to that.

That should be fun as well as recording a pod news weekly review.

It'd be wonderful to see you there as well.

And I'm probably going to be speaking as you might guess at podcast movement in New York, although, you know, who knows?

But all of the details for that have come out.

It looks really good event.

A week long, two days for Sounds Profitable folk talking about the business of podcasting.

Then a day off when lots of people will be over at the IAB up front, then two days with creators for podcast movement.

Very much looking forward to that.

More details on that at the pod news website or indeed podcast movement.com.

And thank you to many supporters, including radio today in the UK, Radio King.

Thank you also to Clyde Broadcast and to Brun Audio Consulting.

And also thank you to Marty from New York, Gavin Watson, Greg Strassel, Sam Phelps, Richard Hilton, Emma Gibbs, Jocelyn Abbey and James Masterson for being regular supporters.

If you would like to support this in any way, you can buy me a coffee, become a member to give regularly.

That's always good.

Or just give a one off coffee or five.

You can do that at buymeacoffee.com slash James Crittland.

There's a podcast version of this newsletter.

If you prefer that, it says here, I should probably have read ahead.

Shouldn't I?

I'm also on Mastodon as well.

I should say then conversely.

There is also a way that you can get this podcast as a newsletter.

Radioland.Email is where you go there.

There you go, salvaged.

I'm on the Mastodon, James at B&E.Social if you're there as well.

And my website has more detail about who I am and what I do and whether I can help you further.

The full website is James.Crid.land.

And until next time, keep listening.

You're listening to a podcast right now, driving, working out, walking the dog.

If you're in a podcast, chances are you have something to say too.

With RSS.com, starting your own podcast is free and easy.

Upload an episode and we distribute it to Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music and more.

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Start your new podcast for free today at RSS.com.