Kyrie, Jrue or LaVine: Could the Heat Actually Land Another All-Star?

0:00This is the Lockdown Podcast Network celebrating 10 years of your team every day. Thank you for making Lockdown your first listen every day. For your second listen, find the Lockdown NBA Podcast where there's no offseason. West Matt and Hayes keep you up to date on contract negotiations, rumors and everything you need to be the most informed NBA fan. Find Lockdown NBA on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts. Part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. With so much on the line for Miami this season, could they potentially add a superstar to the Bix? We'll talk about some of the options on today's episode. You are Lockdown Heat, your daily Miami Heat Podcast. Part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. Welcome back to Lockdown Heat.

1:00West Gilbert here with David O'Mill. Thanks so much for tuning in. You do every day here at Lockdown Heat. You've been getting a lot of questions about if the Miami Heat could add one of three old-style gods to the roster. Kyrie Irving, Drew Holiday, Zach Levine. We get asked about these guys all the time. We've touched on each of them in different episodes. But I thought we could do an episode where we tackle all of them at once because I do think it's all related and important. And by the way, maybe not a complete 0% possibility that they could get one of these guys. But before we get into the particulars of how the heat could acquire them, David, when you think about the names, Kyrie Irving, Drew Holiday, Zach Levine, does one of them stand out to you as the best fit, just regardless of what it would cost to get them, just the player on that roster? That's a tough question. My tendency is to say Drew Holiday, and I'm not sure if that's the right answer. I think he's of the three options.

2:01Probably the worst one in terms of what he brings onto court in terms of offensive production. His defense is not what it was, but he's still a pretty solid defender. He's a solid playmaker. It's just the idea that we've been talking about so often over the last few weeks after they made the addition of Clay Topps. And as do they still need an additional playmaker guard just to add to the rotation. We talked about Kate Vincent. We talked about Ben Simmons. Ben's still an option. But if you look at what Holiday has been throughout his career, the fact that he's played with the Yanis, the fact that he's won a championship with the Yanis, when they were both in Milwaukee, it kind of feels like Drew is the best, maybe the easiest option. I don't know. I'm kind of torn by it, just because again, I feel like he's the least splashy of the names. And at the same time, it would be an idea that we've been touring with, if you're going to make an addition to the roster, he don't want it to be somebody who's going to add too much chaos or detract or distract from anything that's happening this season.

3:10There's a purposefulness to this year that I think is something a lot of fans need to keep in mind. Everything we've heard from Yanis's introductory press conference, who all the additions that have made since then, from everything we've heard from Eric Spolstra, is a renewed energy of this team that they really do see themselves on another level as contenders with Holiday, you know exactly what you're going to get and somebody who's focused on winning and continuing to win at the stage in his career, whereas with Levine and Irving, not to say that they're not winners necessarily, but they just might add something to the mix that might upset the current balance and the vibes on this team. So my gut feeling is Holiday is a good answer, but I'm not sure if it's the best answer, and I'll be honest with that. It's the safest answer, right? He's got the relationship with the honest, they've won a championship together, it would be like Drew and the honest who have won championships together, plus Wiggins and Clay who have won a championship together.

4:10And so, you know, all of that, I guess would matter in terms of instant chemistry, he might be third on my list of these guys though. And I think I surprised myself when I even say that because I feel like I'm a little bit like you, like I'm not really sure how I feel about this either. I think I would probably go Kyver Irving number one, and that surprises me. But for this roster in particular, what he could potentially do on offense with guys like Yanis and Bam, I just think is so interesting. He is an awesome pull up. And now by the way, this, it matters a lot what he looks like coming back from the CACL tear. He could, he could end up being a shell of himself and very clearly, third on this list and a distant one, right, depending on what he looks like when he comes back. So I would have to see what he looks like this season before I go ahead and make him my number one, but theoretically Kyver Irving, as a guy who could play pick and pop, pick and roll with Yanis, we saw a Kyver he could do in that kind of spot with LeBron James, right? Where LeBron would run those screens, Kyver,

5:12you would be the screener, and then just what that does to a defense, where they have to make a decision, do we follow LeBron into the paint, or do we worry about Kyver Irving from three point range? And he has such a reputation and an earned one about being a knocked-ed three point shooter, and he's done it again at the highest level, one of the great shots in NBA finals history. He's a champion, and a guy who tried to become a number one option in Boston, and it definitely did not work. It was a grand failure. But boy, as a number two option playing off of the legit superstar player, one of the best of the modern era, right? Was awesome playing next to LeBron, played off of Luca, and helped take that team into an NBA finals, and then was really good for that Brooklyn Nets team playing off of James Harvard and Kevin Durant, and if not for a Durant toe on the line, we might be thinking about that Brooklyn Nets experience in a very different kind of way, and then obviously COVID and Kyver Irving, and then James Harden, and kind of all of the things kind of unravel.

6:12But in terms of Kyver playing off of a superstar of Janice's caliber, I have no doubts, where Drew Holiday at this stage of his career on this particular roster that needs so much offense, I do have some doubts. Zach Levine might be the most like in still the youngest of this group, closest to his prime. We'll talk about him a little bit more later on, but we just haven't seen him in a playoff series. I have no idea what Zach Levine and a postseason setting looks like, whereas Kyrie and Drew Holiday, I at least know. So I kind of go Kyrie, although I don't even feel good about my own ranking here. No, it's such an interesting ink block test, as far as how you kind of perceive these different options and your own kind of tendencies. And like I said, I think Drew is a good option because he's an easy one, but he's not the one that provides the highest ceiling, and I agree with you completely. And I think it's interesting that we both have Levine at number two,

7:15and it's just whether or not you're willing to take the gamble, the potential gamble and risk of adding Kyrie to the mix. I think Kyrie, phenomenal player, Hall of Fame, are obviously one of the best to ever do it. And I think the fit with the odds would certainly be a good one because we've seen that as you pointed out. We've seen what he's capable of on those stages, and he is on his electric a player as you've ever seen in the NBA, if he's healthy, which that's the assumption. I mean, if these players are injured, any one of them, none of them are a good option. But if you're going to get the version of Kyrie Irving close to what he was at his peak, then that's obviously a player that could help take this team to another level. I would make them, I think, instantly the best team in the Eastern Conference, if not the best team in the NBA. I think the addition of Irving, I think is that much of a factor because he's that good a player. Like you said, such a skilled passer, skilled, you know, ball handler, a playmaker, a guy with that kind of the courage to take those shots on his stretch.

8:16He's fearless in that regard. It would. Yes, I did it. And look, he is a help solve to some of the half court issues that I think are going to play Miami a little bit this season. But it depends a lot on what he looks like that said in terms of actually getting these guys, the two guys that you and I like the most probably the most unrealistic Kyrie Irving. In terms of being a realistic or not realistic trade target, again, there was a rumor going around the other day that was completely unfounded and unsubstantiated and just dumb, just some social media BS. But there's no way this is happening. And I said it back then and I'll say it again. So he's 39.4 million dollars this season. He's got a player option next year, 42.4 million dollars next season. We can just break the news right now. He's picking up that option. So could the heat potentially put like that's a lot of salary, right? Dallas isn't interested in buying him out, right? They actually everything you hear out of Dallas is we love Kyrie Irving. We don't care about the Cooper flag time. We want Kyrie Irving here. So they're not going to buy him out. And they're not going to buy him out at that number.

9:17Even the couple together that salary and a trade, it would take Yovic, Davy on Mitchell and Bobby Porter. So you could do it. But the heat don't have any tradable first round picks after the honest deal. So why is Dallas doing that? Right? That doesn't make any sense for them. And then you can look at the Drew holiday situation as well. 34.2 million dollars this season, 37.2 million player option next year. Maybe he could opt out of that to take a long term deal somewhere else, but I don't know that he's going to be taking leaving a ton of money on the table. I don't know how much longer Drew holiday wants to play. And if he wants to continue to play in Portland that it's a little bit different there. He could probably cobble together enough salary this season to trade for him. But again, same issue, no tradable first round picks in Portland, considering how cheap their owner is. I don't think they're interested in buying out a player to not play for them. It seems like the thing that cheap person doesn't want to do is to pay somebody and not get any return on that investment. So even if holiday was willing to leave some money on the table, I don't think it would be enough. So I don't know. I just, and by the way, Portland is trying to make the playoffs and Drew holiday is a part of that.

10:18And he's sort of a big part of making it work with John Marant and Damon Lillard. So yeah, I just I don't see Kyrie or holiday as viable options. But do you disagree with me at all or? No, no, I think it's easy to kind of connect those dots after they bought out clay tops and but such a completely different situation. I mean, Clay is a very specific role player that was brought into a compliment the duo of the good donge and Kyrie Irving. He wasn't expected to carry the team. He wasn't like the main figure in helping preserve their playoff hopes and identity. And so given the fact that he kind of came in here and you know everything was overturned during his tenure in Dallas. They negotiated in good faith with them, which I think is a smart move because it was clear that they were moving on in a different direction, which clay at that particular point in his career, his age didn't make a lot of sense for the Dallas Mavericks with Kyrie. He's younger, he's better and I think he's still considered a main figure in whatever this next phase of the Mavericks development is going to be.

11:21So does not appear that they're really going to try and buy him out or anything like that as much as you would say, well, they're bought out clay. Why wouldn't they buy out Kyrie? Well, like you said, the salary is so much greater. He's Kyrie Irving. It's a different kind of player. You want him to kind of carry this team as they kind of usher in this new era of Dallas Mavericks basketball. So that makes more sense for them to keep a guy like Irving, then clay Thompson. And I just don't see any reason why they would and Drew holiday. Similarly, they do have a glut at the guard position, but it seems like the odd man out there would probably be scoot Henderson for Drew holiday. So I mean, that might be an option down the road, but again, nothing we haven't heard anything from the Portland side of things, whether or not they're willing to make a Ross remove like that. Yeah, I poke to round a little bit with people that are closer to that organization and there would be a very surprised if anything happened like that would drew holiday. So it turns out the most realistic option. That's the one we didn't really talk much about that's Zach Levine. We're going to talk about more of that option on the other side of the break.

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13:48If you're interested in this, we want to hit 21,000 subscribers before the start of training camp help us out. Join the cookie gang. Hit that subscribe button now on YouTube to support what we're doing. You can also follow us on your favorite podcast app. What about Zach Levine, David? Because I do think where you and I agree buyouts for Kyrie Irving, Drew Holiday probably not happening this season. But if the Sacramento Kings are out of it in January, February, March type of area, which they will be, um, would Levine be willing to give up what's left of a 48.9 million dollar salary this season in a buyout. Before I get your answer, I want to read you this quote that Zach Levine recently said in an interview with Hoopshype.com. He said quote, for me, I've done a lot of things individually and you just keep pressing to try to fulfill more and more goals, winning, trying to get deep in the playoffs. Hopefully you get a chance to be able to play on a championship team, but you play the cards, your dealt and you just keep going at it and quote.

14:52And if does that sound like somebody who wants to give up money for a chance to compete? Yes. I think it's less believable from him. We heard similar quotes from Clay Thompson, right? Wanting to compete at this stage is career still wanting to play in games that means something. Whereas with a guy like Levine, he hasn't really been able to be in those situations. And I don't think it's anything necessarily fault of his. It's just as he said, the cars he's been dealt with teams he's been on. They haven't been successful. You could attribute some of the lack of success to what Zach Levine is a player, but I think all of those rosters were constructed in such a way where they weren't able to maximize those talents that they had on their respective rosters for a guy like Zach, I think he needs to show that he's capable of winning at a high level. So I don't know that he necessarily wants to compete at a high level just for wanting to say win and produce in a playoff scenario. It's almost like he needs to prove that to everybody else because we just haven't seen it from him.

15:53And I think the doubts about him haven't been about the talent, haven't been about what he's capable of, especially as an offensive player. It's just is he a winning player and that's dog temper for such a long time now that it almost feels like whatever team he needs to join in the future would have to be from his perspective in order for him to prove that he is in fact a winning player and can still do everything he's done throughout his career while actually making it matter and contributing to winning basketball as opposed to just putting up a lot of points. Yeah, first of all, I'm not really sure what he's talking about when he says he's achieved so much individually. You made a couple of all-star games like more than half a deck second runner up in the slam dunk contest like this. Right. But look, I joke, but you know, we had this conversation about DeMar de Rosen and you would point out like, hey, the Rosen had opportunities to go to winning teams, but then chose the money over the winning. Specifically, when he chose to go to Sacramento, that's not really the case with Zach Levine, right? Like, you didn't do this. Yes, he's people look at Levine being overpaid. Okay, he took the contract that the bulls offered him on that extension. You think about Zach Levine's career played for a very promising young Minnesota Timberwolves team, but then he was traded to Chicago in the Jimmy Butler trade.

17:03Right. So Minnesota tries to make this all in move for Jimmy Butler. Zach Levine ends up being the centerpiece of the Jimmy Butler deal. And then they're trying to build something in Chicago. And you would remember in both fans will talk about this like this, you know, two week era, a lot where they had Lonzo Ball, Zach Levine, like all those guys were healthy at the same time. And then Lonzo gets hurt and they can never really tap back into that. But Levine signs that contract extension in Chicago thinking, hey, we have something here that's worth building on. I'm coming off of an all star season. I can get paid 40 plus million dollars, almost 50 million dollars a year. Like when Zach Levine did that, that wasn't choosing the money for being on some, you know, lame Chicago Bulls team that was going nowhere the way that they feel like they've been going last couple of years. Bulls end up basically salary dumping Zach Levine on to Sacramento as they try to do this rebuild. And now Levine's walking around in Sacramento in the last year of this contract being like, I don't really know what we're doing here. And we've already heard some reporting from our own James Ham over at Lockdown Kings that Levine doesn't even have some playing time that is going to be guaranteed. So I would, Levine will not accept the buyout today right now on in the middle of September. That's not happening.

18:16But I do wonder if we get to February and the Kings are what we think they're going to be bad. And he's not playing a whole lot. Like what if Zach Levine's not playing for already a bad Sacramento team, I could see that situation in Sacramento getting contentious. If they're out of it and him not wanting to be a part of it as they want to play the young guys more. And them just being like, look, we don't want to play you at that point. I do wonder if they would be willing to negotiate some sort of buyout. At that point, that seems a lot more realistic. Now Levine would even in that instance be giving up his bird rights, which is a big deal for NBA players because it doesn't allow them to, you know, it doesn't allow them to get paid as much as they could otherwise. The heat would only be able to offer a pro rated share of the veteran minimum at that time in February. So Levine would be giving out giving up probably way over $10 million or something like that. But is he willing to do something like that to end up in a place like Miami that I think is the big question.

19:22Yeah, and there's no way of knowing until we see that situation actually play out because like you said, Levine has never been in the position where he could give up money and choose to be in a contendering team instead. And now that that's his focus, that's all fine and good. But even then, and you know, as a point that we made with the Rosen and Clay, do they want to join Miami? Is that the best option for them? And that's something I'm thinking about too, as we're talking about this, like you side claim to option, he's time to him hard away junior Levine clearly a better player among those three. But is his role so clearly defined that he would want to join Miami as the best fit to maximize what he's capable of and to help showcase the fact that he can contribute to a winning team. And that's a big question that I don't think there's a clear answer to and I don't know for effective Miami is that best option like that would be really interesting choice from Levine's perspective is like, you know what, it doesn't matter if I have a clear role, I don't care about minutes, I don't care about money, I just want to be able to win.

20:24And that's the case and he chooses to join Miami that I think that speaks a lot more highly of Levine and where his mindset is at at this stage in his career as far as wanting to join a continuing team and help contribute whatever he can. So, I mean, there's a lot of just permutations of any kind of Levine deal that are very interesting and whether or not he would want to join the Miami and I mean, look, it's an incredible talent. The ability to still get to the rim is there, obviously the shooting is there. He's still a younger skilled player, like there's a lot to like about Levine's addition and I know a lot of fans are very interested in joining him as a very, if Clay had enjoying the team and we talked about the opposite of joining of adding Levine at one point during the off season, we've talked about so many different players. But I think Levine was a really interesting option because of all those things because of the youth of the talent and everything else like that 31 years old, he's younger than Drew holiday carrier being younger than Clay Thompson would really be maybe the future at that spot right for a team built around Yannis and Bam already the same ages as Yannis but look, you mentioned the different permutations of Zach Levine potentially ending up in Miami. What if the plan isn't a mid season move at all.

21:34And it's to make a move for somebody like Zach Levine next summer. I'm going to tell you why something that they did in terms of their salary cap could point to that direction we'll talk about that after this. Today's episode is brought to you by Odo running a business should feel like you're trying to connect a bunch of systems that were never designed to work together one app for accounting another for inventory, another for sales and somehow none of them talking to each other. That's where Odo comes in Odo's in all in one business of management software that brings every part of your business together in one powerful platform from sales and accounting to inventory and marketing. Everything works in one place. Odo is one platform to manage, grow and scale your business. The best organizations know that success isn't just about talent. It's about having everyone working towards the same goal and that's true in sports just like it is in business. No greater example of that as far as what we're talking about which of the players that could potentially become available want to fit into what Miami's doing. They've all got talent. They've all got their respective pros and cons. But can they join a team like Miami to help cement their chances at a championship because they bring the talent. But can they be on board with Miami trying to accomplish a season. And if that's the case, well then if you're seeing the same parallels and your business then Odo is for you.

22:56Great organizations win because operations matters. Not just about talent. And that's why you should get Odo. Odo is one platform to manage, grow and scale your business. Try for free today at odu.com slash locked on. That's od o o dot com slash locked on will be right back. Next summer David because I think this is important. If you look at Miami's cap sheet for the next couple of seasons, something really interesting jumps out because look they accepted the hard cap this season in that Yannis trade they walked away from Norm Powell. They signed Andrew Wiggins to a de escalating contract with the big payment here with smaller payments in the next two years. Most of all of that the heat or on track to use the full non taxpayer of in level exception next summer, which this year was at about $15 million. So next year it'll be a little bit more than that.

23:59I think that's very intentional because you look at the potential 2027 free agents. No stars necessarily that we need to talk about here, although some of them could become available for. If somebody that take the full non taxpayer middle of exception, there's a few names that could be really interesting for a Yannis and BAM team next summer. Zach Levine is one of them. Zach Levine could play out this year, go into unrestricted for agency next year and cash in about with that with that $15 million salary for the heat or whatever next summer. It doesn't get bought out maybe that's more of an option next summer. I have a few more names for you RJ Barrett Fred van Vleet cam Johnson Jordan pool who I don't think I would explore but he's out he's you know a name that's a free agent. CJ McCollum Max Truce and then two guys with interesting player options Dejante Murray. Who has about a $30 million player option but is playing in New Orleans. We'll see where that franchise goes in terms of direction does he pick more money over more years over you know one lump sum and then Benedict Matherin who if he has a nice year in New Orleans could be like a $15 million salary would actually be a raise for him playing on what is right now in $8 million dollars.

25:15So those are the potential 2027 free agents that could be had for around that mid level money. Do any of them pop out to you in terms of fits on this roster. All of I think all of it brings something to table I love a lot of those names I mean the math and his young talented. I mean McCollum is an older veteran can still produce he still a good fit. I mean Levine obviously there's so many different names there that could add something but honestly. This almost feels like shooting yourself in a foot because already I think it's smart of the Miami Heat to create that option for next summer they recognize and I think a lot of people to it's like maybe this team might not be a true contender this year and they're setting themselves up to make more additions down the road which make a lot of sense. That's a great conversation for next summer but that almost feels like you're punching away on the chances that you might have this season I don't know if that reflects necessary. A lack of belief in what they're able to accomplish this year or just maybe the harsh reality that we did what we could to improve the roster this off season but that doesn't necessarily guarantee anything we have more chances to make those additions and upgrades next summer.

26:23What do you think they gave up this year that they could have done that they didn't do in order to maintain an option at the mid level next year. None nothing I think they had to build those roster they've done everything they could it's just also you know you would hope that and we're having this conversation now whether it's Irving or holiday if they get bought out or the being gets bought out that's that's I think something that's more enticing to think of there's the potential down the road for the Miami Heat to make upgrades this year. I think that's an option they would do that but you don't know that those guys are going to get bought out and I like that they've created the optionality look they had to take but they had to accept the hard cap in the honest trade you know it was very clear that Milwaukee had established that in terms of the negotiations between you know Miami's front office and Milwaukee's front office that hey if you take the honest you're taking Bobby Portis and we're probably not we're not bringing in more salary then we send out and so Miami because they took out more salary than they sent out in the honest trade and they got hard cap because of the rules.

27:23I also don't know that the heat minded being hard capped and I'll tell you why because when they started these negotiations with Clay Thompson they were able to just turn around as we're like look we're hard capped our hands are tied. We can only offer you this much. If the heat aren't hard capped Clay Thompson comes in maybe asking for more than they were able to give them so because they're hard capped they're almost able to go to clay and say look we we're going to give you all we can and ultimately they didn't they ended up giving them slightly less in that in order to maintain a little bit more flexibility but correct to clay maybe clay doesn't ask for all of it who knows but I do think it helped them or or may have helped them even at the point when they accepted the hard cap they were probably thinking this actually might help us negotiate with somebody like Clay Thompson. But we were even hearing back about back then so the other part of this too is you know they maybe there's argument like one how keep norm powel green negotiate that Wiggins thing and yeah then you would have pal and Wiggins on a contract for next year then you wouldn't have room at the non tax you wouldn't have room for that mid level exception because you would have pal on the roster basically taking that spot.

28:31I think they were out on normal pal I think they were ready to let him go and they would rather have a chance at a shame baddie type of acquisition one year after the big three that can really tip the scales. I think they rather have that because just like in the case of baddie they didn't know what they didn't know right you assemble this group you change this roster all you know tremendous up heevil of the roster you don't really know what it's going to look like until you know what it looks like. So you don't really know what you need this team is put together in a way that you and I are very high on but you're not going to really know what you need until next summer so this gives you some optionality in terms of hey next summer we have this big fat $15 million exception the biggest one that you can have we have this now to shop around in for agency and just go plug a hole that we're not really sure we have right now I think it's a tremendous achievement by this one office to figure this out while also getting on us getting clay doing all the things that they did. And potentially not necessarily pointing on this year because I still think this team can contend but just like that big three team you can contend but you can still make your team better and that's ultimately go over years to make your team better and this is a tremendous tool to help them do that a year from now.

29:42No I agree on percent I think that's a smart way of looking at is that Miami you know we've heard so many times during the Jimmy Butler era where they want to retain flexibility right it was always just kind of term that was talked about by Pat Riley and is end of season press conference is always. Trying to maintain flexibility so that you can have different options and then when those options didn't take place that left the fan base often frustrated like well you kept this flexibility and for what it didn't make much of a difference and that team was if not good enough at least plucky enough mostly because of Jimmy to be able to continue to be a playoff challenger a tough team that nobody wanted to face etc. But I think with this years group like you made the team the best team possible in my opinion like you you still have the flexibility of adding LeBron James had he chosen to come here you still have the option of adding clay Thompson you were able to get that done like you've done everything you could to keep flexibility to make it upgrades this summer to build around yodas and bam and then you also maintain that flexibility next off season as well.

30:45It does put you in a good position where you can continue to make changes and I do like that kind of approach of we want to win a lot this year but if we fall short and we're able to determine because we don't have X will be able to fill out X by making those kind of upgrades and we have the flexibility to do so. And no tradeable first round pick so like this is sort of the one tool to use to do that. I wanted to talk about this report that the heat or that the Grizzlies could buy out or wave a bunch of players one of which is really interesting to the Miami Walter Clayton Jr. There's been a lot of talk about this on social media but we're going to save that for one more thing but for now thanks so much for making locked on heat your first listen every day. On cowshee you're trading against peers in a live market meaning there's no house and as the probability changes you can buy in and out of your position for a limited time download the cowshee app and use code locked on to get $10 when you trade 10 KAL S H I cowshee trade on anything 18 plus only restrictions and eligibility requirements apply event contract trading involves risk and may not be a risk.

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