Leafs Hour: Nic Roy Traded to Colorado, Who's Next?

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Closing in on a Friday 3 p.m. Eastern NHL trade deadline.

The real Kipper and Born show. Jake the snake shits Derek Brandeil.

Justin Born.

Sammy McKee.

In a very heavily sedated Nick Kipperios.

All right, let's talk and we talk. Have we seen it done intros yet?

Can I just say something?

Yes.

Okay.

I am not personally responsible for anything I say or do or damages to you, Sammy or the Rogers

media company.

Do not operate heavy machinery for the next two hours.

Okay.

The damages you guys incur in the next two hours.

I am not responsible for.

Oh my god. What?

I broke my back.

I spun out this morning.

I had like a game to remember.

Okay.

I'm like, scorn.

I'm setting guys up.

And I decided to back check.

Oh, there's your mistake.

Thank you.

I'm going to put my hands behind the brakes.

You think I'm driving me inside that helmet.

And it's like...

and it was like...

Army crawl, hom.

So, my buddy Johnny, who just got out of the shower, carried my bag to the parking lot

with just a towel around his waist.

We're passing all the older women getting ready for their figure skating classes.

And they're like, yeah.

Can you take my bag out to the car?

Johnny looks like, like, he's been cut, you know, from a rock.

Oh, there's a lot of it along here.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I was chasing him around that one time.

Oh, yeah.

He was unbelievable.

So you weren't able to do a whole lot.

I've been the water.

I've been the water.

You were just as you thought you were done today.

Done, done.

I was on my floor.

Fine.

Living room.

Yeah.

I was done.

I was cooked.

And so you got some help.

I did.

Someone came to your house.

I did, um, and, uh, did a hell of a job in the back of the auto me, uh, stuck a couple

needles in me.

Really?

Yeah.

Yeah.

You are playing her.

And, uh, but, but let's, who's getting who it's, it's, it's the drugs.

Yeah.

Like right into this show.

You might be a nightmare.

So if I chance, I fall off.

Yeah.

Right?

Oh, the best part of it.

You can say whatever today.

You're off the hook pal.

Let it unfiltered.

All right.

All right.

All right.

All right.

All right.

All right.

All right.

All right.

All right.

So where are we today because Sammy Toronto?

The world is wanting first round picks and they want prospects and they want all of that.

At least we got a little action for Nick Waw.

Yes.

the Colorado avalanche for 20, 27 first rounder. That is top 10 protected. And for a conditional

fifth the next year, the condition just being that it's the worst of the three fifth

rounders that the abs have that year. So tip of the hat to tree living because I didn't

see it come in. No, I've been very clear on that that, you know, granted this year next

year, probably you're looking at a 30, 30 second pick, right? It doesn't matter. It's still,

it's, it's a needle mover though. Yeah, it is. It's, you know, in the best case scenario of what

the Leafs were going to do, I was hoping that they would be able to acquire a couple of firsts,

some other high picks, whatever that they could in turn trade for a player, whether that be,

you know, Robert Thomas or, you know, some other bigger name sort of guy, because they need help

in terms of elite talent. It's tough to get without these assets. So if this is part of a bigger

plan, awesome. If they're just planning on drafting a kid 27th two years from there a year and a half

maybe the 28th year, well, it's next year in Colorado. Yeah, I suppose if Colorado really bought

it, it could move to 20 right because it's it's top 10 protected. And if it's after the top 10,

if it goes to a 2028. Yeah, and if it's 2028, I think Austin would be like 39, maybe 40 years of age

by the end. But so they, they've got a really, this is a great first step, whatever you think.

Now, it does change some of the math for their roster. Like he was a very legitimate third line

center. If Scott Lawton, who has been held out for trade purposes, also gets traded. Yeah.

And Sean D'avarez looks more like a winger than a center. You're looking at Matthews, your

center depth is Matthews, Tavarez, Quillin, Stephen Lorenz, maybe it is funny that the three guys were

held out last night for trade related reasons. And one guy that wasn't a high old out for trade

related reasons is actually the one that gets traded first. So it's almost like you showed this

is the guy we don't want to trade and that made him more appealing for. Yeah, maybe that's a little

bit of reverse reverse. Go ahead. What have you got heard? Yeah. I mean, it's right. Maybe

there's, there's, there's, there's still no real signs that McMahon can get traded for first.

And all indications are right now that he's having trouble getting a second round picked for Scott

Lawton. So if the best that he could do for Scott Lawton is a third round, you try to sign him,

don't you? Yeah, absolutely. You do. He's the, the one guy to me where I've done this on the

show already. But if they're serious about next year being a thing, then you have to have some

guys. And Scott Lawton, you know, as a depth guy for you is, he's got pedigree. He still skates well.

He kills penalty. He could serve a role. It's hard though. Give me three or deal tops though.

But if you do end up keeping him, then he'd probably like to know who's coaches next year,

that could be a factor too, because I don't think he's been pleased all season along the way

Barubi has used them. I know he has. So do you just run the risk of seeing where those cards unfold

in the weeks or months after and hope he's still wanting to sign?

I look at that. The trade they made where they got a lot more than people thought that they

were going to get for Nicholas Waugh. And it does lend me to them potentially.

When I saw that trade today, I was like, ah, maybe they should just keep a lot. That was the

first time I had the thought where maybe I thought they were going to keep Waugh for next year or

whatever. But I think maybe that the trade offer was too good for them to maybe pass up. It's

a first round pick, whatever. But yeah, it's just seeing them get that for Waugh and having,

I saw Charlie writing about what their center depth is going to look like next year. I mean,

if he's willing to stay around, maybe it's something you're going to do. But also,

Kipper said he's maybe a second round pick or whatever. I mean, if you're going to get that up

to a first for lot, and I think you pull the trigger obviously, but maybe that's not going to happen.

I just, this trade changed my outlook on lot in the first time in months.

I'm not, I wasn't a big fan of Nick Waugh. It's not that I didn't appreciate him in many ways,

but soft soft and for me, he labored when he skated a little bit, but yet

teams had him way higher than Scott Launt. Well, you know why? Like, I mean, that's

what I was saying on Monday or whatever we last talked about this. He's a six foot five

rope shot center who played 16 minutes for a Stanley Cup winning team two years ago.

15 minutes. Yeah, there's more pedigree there for sure. And

Leafs used them this year. They used them, right? I don't know what his average minutes were.

You mentioned Vegas. Did he play? Did he average 15 minutes this year for the Leafs? I mean,

those are, those are significant minutes. I'm not sure where the fit is in Colorado for him.

To be honest with you with jury there kind of locked in. I'm, I'm wondering whether he was

brought in to maybe be flipped or to come in. And maybe you flipped Drury Jack Drury there.

But I'm not sure how you give up a first rounder from Colorado to bring him in and

where he's going to play. Yeah, I think the drury things possible. Like they, or they just

are looking for more depth and think that Drury can play wing for them if he needs to.

Right now down the middle, it's McKinnon Brock Nelson, Jack Drury. It's the car Bartikov.

Okay, so you gave up a first for a fourth line center? Well, or a drury can be the fourth line

center. Whatever you think he is. Four center depth is good center depth. 1445. Yeah, 1445. So those are

significant minutes played 17 last night, but nobody was in the lineup. It's also not their problem.

Yeah, no, you know, well, it's not the Leafs problem now. It's like, yeah, sure. Oh, yeah.

I will say one of the things that I do like from a moving on from wall perspective. And I like

to watch one of those guys. I think he had more to offer maybe, but he, he is all the things

that I didn't like about the Leafs as a team big and slow, right? Like didn't have the edge or

that like nastiness. You know, so you put in a guy like Quillen and give him a chance. Look,

I don't think they're better for having lost them, but I just need it to be part of the bigger

plan. I need it not to be, you know, because there could have been more creativity. There could

have been further retention for a better return. There could have been more ways, you know, taking

back bad money for more. It just, it's a good start. I'm very happy with the start. And the

reported, I think Cerevelli maybe put out a tweet yesterday or like late yesterday that the

asking price for him was maybe a first and a prospector or whatever and they weren't willing to

retain. So I guess maybe they met halfway in the middle there where they weren't willing to retain,

but they got the first and a fifth round pick instead of the prospector or whatever. So maybe

that's what the way it went, but yeah, yeah, I mean, it's a good trade for the Leafs. I think if

you had gone into this deadline and said that you were going to get a first round pick straight

up for Nick Waugh, the whole fan base would have signed up for that immediately, right?

Oh, 100%. Yeah. Yeah. What is the number for you guys to feel this time

tomorrow? It's over. Like we've seen the names without going into them in great detail.

How many more trades for you guys? We've seen one minimum three more for me.

Four. You want four in total. The least minimum. Yeah. Four bodies out. Four,

either assets of any kind in. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, obviously I'm not saying for anything,

but you know, it is like McMahon to me makes no sense to bring back. I don't believe that he has

five more years or whatever the length of the contract we talked about yesterday

of success ahead and those middle contracts always end up fighting you. I just don't love the

McMahon thing and I think he has value. Like he woke up and let's sort of keep her

sure would. Right. With almost $30 million. I know that. And now McMahon's waking up,

rolling out of bed going. I'm four and a half million all day long. Yeah, for sure. I saw

people who some five someone tweeted like that. It's like a favorable contract for McMahon.

I guess because it helps him out. Make his case or whatever. Like Sherwood scored 30. He

leads the league and hits last year and this year. Like he's not. That's not what McMahon has done.

Yes. So he's at five and a half five seven five seven five. Like I said, rolling out of bed,

he should get four and a half. Totally. Now the Leafs want to get him under

four. Yeah. And if I'm McMahon, I'm not doing it. And that's why you have to trade him.

Yeah. This doesn't work here. Yeah. But do you like at this point, Kip,

do you think that they're still working to get him out of like, or they have they made up their

mind on him? For me, he's going to get traded. I don't think that there's any gap that you can

close to where McMahon thinks he should be. Again, do you want to start playing with six and

seven year deals to spread out to the money and and bring down the AAV? He's not for Bobby.

Not not for Bobby. And he's still perceived out there as a very good third line guy that could

come in and play top six minutes on stretches. He could play third line left wing on a cup

contender. You know, I don't think he's any higher than that. So the really popular link with McMahon

was Edmonton and Stan Bowman today did a press conference. What did he say? Like we could be done.

Imagine we're done. We're done. So if there's a package, I don't believe that for once.

If there's a package out there, including OEL and McMahon just to sweeten it up Detroit.

So both would go in one. I could sense that if you're looking, if you're the Leafs past

another second rounders and third rounders and you actually need an A minus B plus prospect

just to kind of hang your hat on a little bit, then multiple players usually are able to pull

that off easier than just one guy. Detroit does have all their firsts and two of their next three

seconds coming up. I think if you were to trade both of those guys in one swoop, you'd want to

first and a prospect and that would be pretty happy with that, I think. Yeah. And for them,

they'd immediately be better. And you get OEL with term that, you know, I don't know who else

it makes sense for, but I could say three or four pieces coming back for for McMahon and OEL

four pieces. Really? Yeah. That's interesting. You know, you could be sitting here. You know,

we could do our show on Monday and go, Hey, the Leafs have whatever, multiple firsts and a bunch

of seconds or you know, what there could be real assets and a ton of cap space and you go,

okay, there's a vision here. There's a direction. You can sell this. Guys always become available.

You know, we don't know what the draft who's out there, but people are unhappy with their

situations. Good players. I am curious about St. Louis still. Like all those guys are available.

Yeah. No one's moved. This is Franco, Thomas, Kyru. They'll have no moves. And yeah, I know that,

but you know, is where will they go? Is the question. Like, Paraco, guys in St. Louis and these

turned down deals to Winnipeg and Buffalo. Sure, he'd say yes to Los Angeles.

Just on the OEL thing, I would admit to you guys, I know if it's going to be a good package coming

back from Detroit or coming back from, I've seen the Boston link here and there and maybe for

living, should just maybe not called on Sweeney anymore. No, no more deals. I think that's just

something you should maybe avoid, but the thought of him going to a division rival, like I really

have loved the all rectum Larsen experience. Like the last been a shocking for sure.

Like last year, I thought he was really good this year. He's clearly been, you know, offensively

better, but just what he brings, he cares. He loves being a leaf. It does suck that you do have

to trade him because he obviously wanted to be here. He made a four year commitment. He didn't

think that least we're going to suck halfway through his second year here. It just I wouldn't

love seeing it for two more years in Detroit. And he's one of the chances that they

fill that slot in that they replace him with something that's even 70 or 80 percent OEL.

Right. Well, I ended at what cost, right? You know, it does get a lot harder. And as I've said,

he's one of the guys who has three years of term this year plus two more. Yeah. So, you know,

you can flip him next year and he's still a valuable guy. But I understand these things are at odds.

Maybe I'm like, get as many picks as you can and try to win next year. So it depends how serious

they are about next year. But it also puts you in a position with OEL where you're genuinely not

willing to move him without a great price. And that's a great place to be. We got Luke Fox coming in

in about a half an hour. And Brian Lotton will join us on our national hour as well. We'll get in

a lot more on Colton Paraco turning down the deal with the Buffalo Sabers, actually, you know.

Strick was all over that one, boys. You know what? Strick was unbelievable yesterday, boys.

He brought the juice. He was like, he nailed it by playing Toronto. He nailed it. Everybody's,

everybody's already goes knock on a Buffalo. Everybody around, right? Whether you're a podcast or

another TV show or radio, whatever, they're like already breaking down what Paraco with me is

going to do for Buffalo. And he comes on our show and goes, yeah, I don't think he's gone.

He looks into his clothes as he possibly came to the camera and says,

got it. Just got a text here. Oh, man, that was that was some good stuff. But

when he started floating around about Nick Wanda, potential first rounder, I asked Brian Lotton.

I sent him a text and I go, can you see a world where Nick Wanda gets a first rounder?

He goes, yeah, Colorado. Oh, yeah. Colorado.

Lott's has been tweeting about he's been incitering it up. He's just hit on a number of things

over the past couple of days. So we're excited to have him at the top of the hour on our national

program last night. Was there a game last night? Is there a game? Sammy? Yeah, I got filled in again.

I think it was a 60 shot attempt there. He's having real shots.

Give up the most shots. They've given up all year long. I think there's 47 shots.

Anthony Stollars to a team that's 15th in the east.

worse than them in the sandings, but I can't

Craig Burrubi kind of fix that same look every game. It's every game. Why?

I have no idea. That's not for the day. If you just said, I don't care if we score another goal

the rest of the season. Yeah. We can't look like that defending. We're giving it back to them.

It's quit flipping it out. Make a pass. Hang on to it. Go cycle. Get the sedans on the on the team.

I mean, I'm going to be too fancy. This is a question for you guys, but

his quote unquote system takes a ton of commitment, right?

You're blocking shots. Blocking shots are working. It's it's got to be hard for Craig Burrubi to play

to convince these guys to play the way he wants them to play when you're what 11 points out of a

playoff spot. If it weren't every game all year long, you know, but since they've come

back from the break, it's been particularly awful. Yeah. Like even even the game against Philly,

they had the good second period. But the first and third, they got filled in for most of it. Like

they are playing like one of the worst teams in the league.

God, if they're only tank, that top five would be within reach, but it just isn't.

And can I read you what their schedule is coming up? Oh, this is fun. Stay tuned, folks.

Because it's bad right now, fellas. Like don't get me wrong. It's it's not great right now.

But after I'm just pulling it up here, sorry, after they play the Rangers tonight,

home Tampa, at the Canadians, home for the ducks, at the sabers, at the wild,

home islanders, home hurricanes, at the senders, there's almost all playoff teams.

It's going to get a lot worse here. And I'm starting to wonder,

you know, if they could maybe for this hellsake escape of a season, they maybe get some lottery

ball luck and they get down into the bottom five. I'm starting to kind of cling that a little bit.

I know it's not. No, I know. Listen, I said as much myself, I wrote it.

You got to eat other teams thinking the same way right now. And to Doug McClain's point the other

day, and to your point, it's almost impossible. You have to be, you would have to be vile, win

like five games the rest of the year. Where's the win in the next day? But

Craig Ruby, isn't it was this time? They've lose every night. They're the worst team.

Craig, Craig Ruby thought he was playing his best lineup in New Jersey.

Yeah. And in Philly, in Philly, they dressed their playoff team.

Yeah. They put Matthews and Neilander together with, with knives in the top line.

McMahon. McMahon story. McMahon in the top line.

And then they went knives to Varas.

Did you guys want to hear any of the thoughts from last night?

Yes, I do. Okay, so play the first clip on the, all the scratches and what the effect

that had in the team won. Clip one, please, Derek. Well, it does. It being that stuff.

Like, we still, we want to win games and we, we know. And, um, you know, when you come to

the rink and there's, you know, three, three important players that aren't in a lineup,

it's going to impact the guys, but I thought the guys came out and we're ready to play.

Which, you know, that's, that's important.

Um, you know, I thought our captain led the way in that department.

He, I thought he worked tonight and competed and, but it's tough for sure.

I don't know. Maybe my standards are too high. I didn't see a lot of that.

I'm talking about all everything. Austin's like, if you,

if you take the last two games in the Olympics, he hasn't scored a goal in 11 games.

He, uh, that's, you played 25 minutes and had six shots last night.

Is that the way it's going to be for the next 20 games? Austin and Morgan playing 25 minutes

a night. So this is that needed coaches coaching for his job still.

This is where I talked about it coming back on that show when I've seen people say that it's too

late in the season to potentially let Craig go. But this is the exact reason that like

part of me just wants to set him free here where he's coaching last night to absolutely win.

And in the next week, starting Saturday night against Tampa, we are going to see some

Marley's in this lineup. We're going to see some, some people, you know, out of this lineup.

And he's still going to be playing his top guys, however much, because his mindset is to win

and credit to him or whatever, but like they need a different mindset. March 27th, 2025.

John Torturella is coaching the Philadelphia Flyers. They lose seven or two to the Leafs actually.

And after the game, he says, really not interested in learning how to coach in this type of season

where we're at right now. And we came on air the next day. And we said, you can't have him go

back in that room the next day. And he didn't. They let him go. As March 27th, remember that

pretty clearly today's March 5th. There's some parallel. You, you, the only difference is

Ruby wants. Yeah, he wants to be a part of this wants to be a part of the solution. And towards

didn't, but I would say my only point there is that it's not too late in the season to say,

we just need. Set him free for directions. Like get him out. I would, they're going to finish

here. I would. What I would do is I start bringing in half a dozen Marley's in the equation.

And I treat the next 20 games like a training camp with exhibition games. And show me what you have.

Show me how hard you want to fight for next year's job. Show me that you want to be on the power

of play. Just. That's the way I think I would go about it. I mean, the wins and losses. So it's not

wins and losses. It's just compete. That's all. So I'm totally with you. Get ready to learn about

Bo Grul and Luke Haynes and, you know, guy, you know, William Phil Noove and guys like that. So

that's cool. And I'm on board with that kept Quillen. Quillen. How is Austin Matthews? How,

how are Austin Matthews and William Nieland are going to handle that environment? And I think the

point you'll make is that your pros be a pro. You're the leaders. But what do we expect? Listen,

they're not the first guys in the history of the game to, to be on a sucky team. Okay. It's

happens. Yeah. And you said it. Just be a pro. Get to the end of the year. Put your

brave face on. Get to the end of the year. And then go have your meetings. Yeah.

Right. That's going to be a hell of an exit meeting. Whoever, whoever's going to be interviewing

who in that exit meeting. Yeah. That's a great question. But you can be Sammy. Who knows?

By then. I'll be, I'll be here. Maybe, maybe it's a Rogers employee. I don't know. I mean,

I have a bro. I built a hell of a burling team with the zigzags. I can get in there. I don't know.

I don't know. But somebody's going to do it. But it'll be, instead of them saying Austin,

what, what are you going to look like next year and you come back? He's going to be saying to

them, what are we going to look like next year when I come back? You can't be asked to me,

no, like, yeah, you may have to suck it up for a year. But that's a tough sell.

At this point of his career, that's different than four or five years. How can you look any of them

in the eye and say, we're going back to the playoffs next year? Because I believe that that's the

story they're trying to sell. I believe the tree is trying to, hey, well, keep his job by selling

that story to everyone. I think, okay, we'll just, I'm in for now. I got two years left on my

deal. You know, you're telling me this with a straight face. I'll go with it and we'll watch.

We'll watch. We'll watch your June. We'll watch your July. We'll watch your August. We'll see

what the roster looks in September and December. I'm going to be in your office going, hey,

we're 11 and 28. Can you, can I go to California? I've heard the Kings are great.

But to your point about treating this as a training camp and, you know, like seeing what you got,

do either of you guys, I know, but do either of you guys believe that Craig Bruebe who's come in

here for them to win is not going to play Tavaris and Matthews 20 minutes, 25 minutes. Do you

actually have trust that he's going to play these guys? What is the point? What is the point of

doing it though? Like if you go, if you go, if you go 13 and 17, that's, you're now you're

building on something 14 and seven. I just don't know how 13 and seven. What do they have 20 games left

if they went 13 and seven? That doesn't get you anywhere near the playoffs. But you're going in

next year saying, yeah, I saw in 13 out of 20 games that he's, he's the guy. And then these are

the players. I tweeted this earlier, but and we text about it last night. The incentive to lose

to lose is twofold. One is to get low enough that you have a higher percentage chance of getting

a lottery ball, right? First or second overall. So if you finish six, Kip, which is viable for them,

they would have 15% chance of getting first or second overall. That's as good as they can do.

But here's the other part of that. God, by the way, all you're doing is just

punting it because you're just punting it because you still have to get up to that. And it could

be a first or second or third overall instead of a seventh. Yeah, but if it's going to be 25,

you'd take it and 20 and then the next and then the next year and the next year are both

completely unprotected. Yeah. The other part of this though is it's not a good recipe where you

finish also affects all your pick in every other round, right? You finish seventh, you pick seventh

in the second round and the third round, the fourth round as opposed to 13, seven finishing 14th

or whatever last and then just it's just a better pick in every round. So there's some incentive

to lose. I cannot see any incentive to win unless you believe in this winning culture. We're going

to develop it. You're not going to develop it over the next 20 games. Not when you're trading

players who could help you win. Yeah, but I don't trust that the coach isn't going to do that.

Well, this we've talked with the disconnect and if there's a disconnect between the coaching

staff and the management. And I don't even want to say this as like a criticism to Barubek.

No, it'll blame him for what he wants to win. He's coached like I get it. He came here to win.

It's just I don't think that should be their priority at this very time, which is a hard thing

to sell to some people, but it unequivocally should not be their priority. Yeah.

You guys still feel like

knives is going to play the I'm hurt card kind of this year or he's not. He scored, man.

I'm just saying though, like if we do believe that there's something not there and I'll include

Matthews, like you're going to start thinking about shutting these guys down, no?

Well, that's a fair point two and one that I made in my article as well while back that like

if he's something's not right, then let's just get you healthy for next year.

Well, let's get everyone so they can have a full summer of trainings. Now he's about being ready

for next year. It's about training all summer. Nies, by the way, 50 points already this year,

59 games. I know it hasn't looked. Did you see the picture that's going around

of Matthews in the dressing room? No, with like the like the bands. He's got all the

kinesis on his shoulder. It's just like if there is if he's playing through literally anything.

Oh, yeah. Stop right now and just it's time to hit the shelf, baby. Yeah, shelf time.

The man to me got old like that. Yeah. And kind of like you spit it out. Yeah, kind of like me

this morning with my back. But like I did see the picture of him in the dressing room. You saw

that picture. I saw it. And I'm like, is he being held together with masking tape right now?

Like you have more than enough evidence over the last year and a half boys to be like,

just go see a doctor and be ready in September. But to me, it just I saw him and I'm like,

God, he got old. It feels like he got old on us very fast. Yeah. I mean, that's so time

people like you wearing on it. It's emotional damage. But do you see John Tavares go down the ice

on that on the nice goal of a thousand miles an hour flying. That's the best he's skated.

And like I've seen him in eight years here. Yeah, it's a beeline up the ice. And by the way,

fascinating stat, which I think Sam, you actually had in here. 300th assist. He is the 10th player in

NHL history to record 300 assists with multiple franchises. And I was like, he does not fit assist.

Yeah. This list is like Ron Francis and Messier and Gretzky and coffee edition magicians

out there. Tavares just shoots it off pads. Yeah. Get those assists. There's a Tavares assist.

They clashed to say I'll fall away jumper that lands on someone's stick. Yeah, I'm going top

cheese solo buddy and Apple. We have that one there. Where's the goalie going in the corner?

I was going at the middle of the net. I will say watching three on three the past couple nights.

Hasn't been a great reminder of what happened a couple weeks ago. See in Jackie who's dipping

around out there. I was like, God, I a lot of people tweeting about didn't want him to win it last night.

He was not burying a pretty clean look in three on three last night. That hurt. What is that one?

Italy. All right, take a quick break. Yeah, sure. Actually,

what do you want to say to me? Just to finish up last thing on the lot in conversation that we

had earlier at the top about, you know, now the traded wall weighing the trade them or keep them.

Just listen to this clip from Eastern Cowan on Skull Lawton from last night. I thought it was

really interesting. Clip one from Eastern Cowan. Yeah, he's been nothing but good to me.

Honestly, I haven't known him long but probably wouldn't be the person I am right now without him.

Um, uh, secret teammate. Yeah, it's unfortunate. Obviously sucks.

Would not be the person I am right now without him. He's been a teammate for like five months.

That to me is like crazy. It matters so much to me. It's going to be hard to replace that big time.

They don't have that. Matthews isn't that. No, none of them are that. Yeah, that's

problem. And to me, that's, I've said, Lawton is one of the few guys that has the intangible

makeup that have legitimate value to me that I would pay extra to keep. Totally.

All right, we should go now. Okay, coming up next after the break, Luke Fox NHL writer for

sportsnet.ca follows the Leafs as much as anybody out there will get his thoughts on where the

Leafs go between now and 3 p.m. tomorrow back after these words.

The show on Apple Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome back to the program.

Let's go to our very trusted voice of reason on our show every once in a while, Luke Fox.

Luke, how are you, my friend? I'm doing okay. How are you guys?

New York City, baby. Yeah, I had to come home early. Oh, you're not, you're not there.

We got a big show. We got a big show tomorrow in order to cover the game and get back in time

for the big trade deadline show. I had to come home early. So I was in New Jersey, but I flew,

I just flew home. Let's have a lot of air miles, man. Yeah.

Is there a sense the last few days being around the team that it's a real foreign feeling

for this group to be in the position that they're in? Could you see it in their body language,

Luke, and the way they carried themselves? You're exactly right, Nick. And I feel like it's

been slow to catch on. I feel like they were almost going through a denial stage.

Like for me, I sensed this building pretty early on in the season. They got that bump

after Christmas. But when they lost that five game homestand, to me, that was the nail in the coffin.

But it wasn't for them, especially when they went out west on the Troy Stetcher revenge tour,

and they won all those games. There was a real sense of belief. And I think just this week,

it's starting to sink in. And the fact that, you know, I was around the team yesterday,

those guys got scratched late. And they're standing around after the game just in their coats,

and guys are walking up to them. They don't know if it's the last time they're saying goodbye to them.

It started to really hit. And I asked William Neeland, they're like, all you've known basically

is winning and making the playoffs with this team. And how does this feel? How are you processing

what's happening? And he's kind of like, it's weird. I don't know how to feel. And I kind of don't

want to think about it too much. I feel like it's just starting to sink in now. And it's probably

later than it sunk in from analysts and a lot of fans. But it's starting to hit them now.

Yeah, they tried to stay in the fight as long as they could. And so I guess I'm curious

to your thoughts on the idea of trading the three guys that they've pulled out of the lineup.

And the idea of a retool and competing again next year are these things at odds? Or can they

trade those three guys and go back at it again next year? I think they can. But where is the

go back at it, Justin? Like it used to be. Go go back at it. And when a Stanley cop right now,

it's, you know, be the Boston Bruins. I guess would be the model. And you're back into being relevant,

fighting for a playoff spot, hoping your healthier, hope it. There's a lot of hope involved, right?

Your hope in Chris Tanniff comes back. And it's the Chris Tanniff we saw two seasons ago. Your

hope in Austin Matthews gets back to the production of two seasons ago. Your hope in William

Elander's healthier. Your hope in Matthew Nies takes the step he really didn't take.

There's a lot of things that have to break right for you. And in my mind, I also think it's just

overdue that they have a new set of eyes behind the bench and try to reinvision how they play.

So then I think there's a path to get back to playoff status. Whether this is a Stanley Cup

contender, that really feels like a stretch at this point. You're watching and listening to Luke Fox,

Leaf and NHL writer for sportsnet.ca. So in the meantime, Luke, 20 games to go. Now you around the

team, it felt at least going into New Jersey that Craig Brewery was going to play his best line-up

like he did on the weekend. And the old switcheroo, three guys are out. And lo and behold,

the one guy that isn't out gets traded today. How do you, how do you make sense of all of this?

Yeah, it was kind of ironic, right? And when we were talking in Nick Waw in the morning about the

trade rumors and what he enjoys about being a leaf kind of bracing ourselves to write these

stories of Nick Waw could get traded within the next 48 hours. And he is the one guy who gets dealt

and he plays. It was really bizarre because Brewery was asked point blank about sitting guys

in the name of roster management. And he said, not tonight. And then got a chance to talk to some

of players after the game. And Anthony Stolars didn't find out until he ran into Scott Lawton

and the lobby on the way to the game that he wasn't playing. Matthew and I had to get to the

rink and see these empty stalls and be like, wait, what is that? What's going on here? And the guys

themselves, like Oliver Eckman-Larson had played every single game for the Leafs despite getting

banged up. She was the only defenseman to play every single game. He fully thought he was playing.

And it came as a complete shock to him. So whether that's Bradford Living got some things cooking

in the few hours between a morning skate, which didn't finish till, you know, around 1230,

we talked to Baroubae or and Pock Drop. Or he just came to his senses and said, hey, like, I better

protect what I got here and scratch some of these guys. I have enough healthy bodies to fill in.

But I was talking to Troy Stetcher and he was, like, all ticked off that he wasn't going to play.

And then he played. It was a really bizarre situation. And to me, it speaks to

there being a little bit of a disconnect. Oh, there's that word again.

I know. Between head office and coach, I think there's one between what the coach, the style of

a coach wants the guys to play and how they're playing. I think there's a disconnect between

the organization and the fan base. It all seems a little hazy. But at least it's starting to come

into focus. At least, you know, we know they're, they're selling right now with the Nick Juan deal.

At least signal that there is some action being taken. So the guys that were withheld are the guys

who presumably have some value for the Leafs. There are guys who don't have as much value who,

I'm not sure are a part of the solution here like Mattias Macchelli this year. It didn't work.

You know, like, I don't know if they're just going to take him to the end of the year and let him

walk and not qualify him or if they're able to get something. Do you think like Benoit,

some of these fringe pieces have the chance to get moved in the next 24 hours or is this stuff

they'll sort out in the summer? Sure. I think there's a chance. You know, if you,

if you're a GM who wants one of these guys, give Brad a call. Yeah. Yeah.

Honestly, I think he'd listen on Benoit. I think he'd listen on Stetcher.

Macchelli for sure. He probably had his, his nicest goal of the year.

Right. And he just was never a fit for the coach, right? It just didn't feel like, like his kind of

player. And yeah, I can't see a world where he's back. So they probably don't qualify him. But

if you can add him into a package with one of these other guys, then, then go for it. And I

really think they're kind of listening to all options. It's just, you know, times running out,

some, a lot of the buyers have already started to make their moves. I saw Stan Bowman just say that

basically they're done now. You know, maybe he's being coy, but, you know, some, some teams have

kind of already made their move. Luke watching Anthony Stolar is the other night kind of makes you

and probably many Lee fans go, man, what could have been, right? If, uh, if I chance, he could have

had any luck and and string out 40 or 50 games, but it's just, it's not in the guy.

No, he can't stay healthy, Nick. Uh, and I love the way he tends the net. Like they're,

they're still, it dipped for sure at the beginning of the year. I think he got his wrist slap behind

the scenes for coming out and, and ripping the team. He basically saw what we're all seeing now.

He was one of the first guys to vocalize it. He wasn't wrong. Don't start me on that one.

I know. I know. He should have cupped his mouth shut. And I think he realizes that. I mean,

even last night, he said that they had a great defensive effort. They didn't have a great defender.

I saw that interview and I was like, all right, all right, Anthony.

They had a great goal. And, and when he's in the zone, there's like, there's fewer guys that,

that you trust. Like when he's really feeling it, um, so I, I don't know that the goalie market

is so strange and it's almost like a buyer's market for goalies. There's all these goalies

available all of a sudden. But for sure, um, they can't go into the season with three of these

guys. Because hill to be isn't waivers exempt. So, uh, you're, you're listening on

strollers, you're listening on Joseph Wall. Um, but when both those guys are at their peak,

I think I prefer strollers over wall when they're at their absolute best.

I mean, there's maybe three or four guys in the lead. You're right. Who like, when they're on

that are better than him, he just, he's got a great look in that. So we did an overrunner

on total moves for the Leafs pre deadline. Uh, I said, I'd be okay with four. Give me four total

three more from now. Where do you think they fall on, on that scale? Total moves by the deadline.

I'll say two more, but you're, you're, I think you're about right. Yeah. I mean, uh, I don't,

I really don't like the idea of resigning Bobby McMahon for the key for something,

key for sure with light. Uh, I think he's a great story. I think he's a great kid.

Fast as hell, but I, I, I, I'm not giving that guy term if, if, if it's, if it's my call.

I think he brings something you could probably find for, for cheaper and, uh, less of a term

commitment. So if he's gunning for, for something in the ballpark of Sherwood, I, I trade him and

I let him walk. Um, the lot one to me is interesting because I think he's also priced himself out.

But the great irony here is they need more scott ones. They need more all of Reckman Larson's.

These guys are so good for that room. Um, they're adults. They, they give you a straight answer.

They help their teammates. They set a good example. They play through pain. They're, you know,

they actually need more of these guys. And it's too bad because they're the exact type of guys

that if you're going to, about to go on a deep playoff run, you want to rent them.

I get why there's interest in them. Luke, great stuff. Have a great tree deadline day tomorrow.

Pack a big lunch and bring a deck of cards or something too, just in case.

I'm just setting up shop at the Ford Performance Center. There's no practice. It's just

hanging out, waiting for news, waiting for guys to walk by with a garbage bag full of equipment.

Yeah. All right. Thanks. That is a loop fox.

NHL writer for sportsset.ca. So I got to think Brad's

sitting on something. And it's just a matter when those teams come back to him and say,

we're ready. He did it to Calgary last year where, or I'm sorry, he did it to Philadelphia last year

as he sat on Calgary trying to get Anderson and Weeger.

So you think he has stuff in place? I think he does. I think other teams too.

And wouldn't surprise me again to see these lesser teams now that are kind of,

Utah has a lot of irons. I think Anaheim, like if Bobby McMahon ended up in Anaheim,

it wouldn't surprise me at all, right? One of those teams that are like, hey, okay,

nobody's really looking at us as a Stanley Cup contender. But Bobby McMahon come in here.

And if he could show his worth and get some great chemistry with some of our big boys here,

I'll give him four and a half, five million bucks next year. Holy. Yeah. You can see that.

And Anaheim's, yeah, you mentioned the like the team in that Pacific. It's like you get

hot for a couple of weeks. See the conference final. What do they have to give up to get Bobby McMahon?

Second rounder. I think that's, I think that's the going rate right now, but it's just tough

because like that's not the going rate. Like Nick Dowd was the second, the third. I know.

You know, like there's, there's big movement on guys that are pretty just okay.

Those guys kill penalties, I think, and they're key face off guys. And Bobby's just,

Bobby McMahon. I think if you put, I think if you put those guys in a room,

can't say he's worth anything. I mean, I'll tell you and Nick Dowd. I didn't see that

those multiple picks there either. So I don't know. There's a, there's a going rate for

center iceman right now, guys. Some of these guys, it's McCarran and Dowd and some of the value

that they're getting. It's a high bar right now. A few desperate teams, you know.

Well, you just need one. So just mentioning like I look at Calgary right now and everybody says,

yeah, three, three second round picks basically is the, the meat of that trade for,

for weager, but the Leafs kick their tires on weager. And Calgary said, no, we're not making them

available this time last year. And then a year later, you move them for three second rounders

when the Leafs would have easily given you their first and Minton. Now, you tell me which trade

you would rather have today. You know, did Calgary think they were something different than they

are? Were they hoping to come back? I don't know. But this year, this time last year,

where we have no interest in moving weager. I just wish. Honestly, I just wish weager was on the,

I'm sorry, he was Minton's on the line. Yeah. There's so much such an easier build as well.

Okay, more of that talk. When we come back in our national hour, Brian Lawton,

who's been there, done that in every conceivable way as a player, as an agent, and as an executive

joins us next, as we get ever so closer to trade deadline Friday 3 p.m. Eastern. Don't go away,

we're just getting started.