Leafs Weekend Recap with Anthony Petrielli & Joshua Kloke

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Leafs too hot, hot in the streets

from a conversation perspective hot on the ice,

because points, I guess, why not joining us now

to talk about all things Toronto Maple Leafs

and you can always check out his lovely work

on Maple Leafs hot stove.

Anthony Petrielli joins us now.

Anthony always love chatting with you

but how we doing on a Monday.

I'm good guys. How are you doing?

Doing well, doing well.

You know my life, sleep deprived is the state I live in.

So it's actually like I've never been more ready

to be morning morning, morning radio host.

Okay, here we are. We're in leafland now.

What are they doing?

Are they are they winning?

Why are they winning these games?

Are they trying to like have like the reputable tank

where it's like the hockey gods

are going to reward them with lottery luck

because they didn't just lay down and die down the stretch.

What where was this when the season could have been salvaged?

I mean, I think this is why it was always going to be tough to tank

and I know I don't think they're going to sit there

and say they're playing hard, they're captains out.

I mean, reality is just their goal tending

is really talented.

You know, Joseph Walls told him a point in Buffalo

and Anthony Stollars was, you know,

he'd let in a few in succession in many

but he was lights out, right?

He makes the cross ice save on Zucarillo.

It's been three three on most goalies.

That is three three.

He makes that save the game pass settles down.

You know, if you look at that third period,

Minnesota had 37 shot attempts overall,

you know, including power play and empty net and all that.

And he kind of shut the door down.

So, you know, amongst everything,

they do have talented goal tending.

They're both healthy right now.

It's going to be really hard to lose, you know,

10 out of 15 when your goal tending is that good?

Yeah, that's true.

Anthony, no question.

I mean, what do you think happens with goal tending?

Obviously not for the rest of this season

but going into the off season in next year

because we're not, we're not only talking about Wall

and Stollars at this point.

We're actually going to be talking about.

I think really four goal tenders, right?

When you talk about already held to be

and yeah, you're got actium off.

That's what I'm going with.

That's what you're going with.

Held to be no longer waver exempt.

Already just posted his first AHL shut out.

I believe this past weekend.

So, I mean, how do you manage that going forward?

Knowing that you have four,

essentially reasonably priced goal tenders.

We think all of whom are pretty good at this point.

Yeah, I think Brad, we spoke about it a few weeks ago.

I still think same sort of answer where it's just

whatever goal you can get you the most in return.

There's just, there's a number of holes in the lineup.

You know, if moving one of them gets you a defense

then that helps.

If it gets you a center, that helps.

I mean, at this point, if it gets you a winger, that helps.

So, whichever guy can get you the most,

I think what complicates it further,

potentially is, I mean, all things being equal.

Joseph Law is shown the best and he's also of prime age.

But he doesn't have any sort of trade protection.

Whereas Anthony Stoller has a 16 team, no trade clause.

So, he can say no to half the league.

You know, that reality complicates things a little bit.

Because, like I said, all things being equal,

you'd probably would rather want to trade Stoller's,

whose older has shown less ability to say healthy,

you know, yadda yadda, as you kind of go through it.

But you, you know, you have to navigate his no trade clause

for a guy you just signed to afford your contract extension.

Which does, you know, that does complicate things a little bit further.

All things, as you go through it, though,

I would still just lean towards move the guy that you can get the most for.

And you'd probably feel good about, you know, any two of those three

with Aktyam off in the minors.

So, look, the goal-tending pipeline looks strong.

It's the one thing that you could point to in the organization

and say this is an actual proper pipeline right now.

Yeah, and I got to be honest.

Like, if you told me there's a position, you have to have it at pretty good.

Like, pretty good to be the team that can develop goalies.

Now, like, TBD, right?

It's like, they've developed air quotes hill to be here.

It's like, I don't know, let's see them get like a backup share for a season

and see how we still still feel about that.

It also, the already extension to me reeks of like,

in a season that nothing's gone right.

It's like the hill to be one didn't blow up in their face.

Like, try that again.

Maybe like, that's the way we go about it.

Do you think that the questionable future of the Leafs maybe helps them

if Stolars is the guy they want to move?

Because a year ago, there's no chance.

Anthony Stolars is saying, get me at a Toronto.

This is not a good place to be.

And, you know, the contract maybe takes care of him for the back end of his NHL career here.

So maybe it's not so much worried about like, you know,

propping himself up for the next deal.

But is this one of the rare instances where maybe the Leafs like, and again,

like putting a politely questionable long-term future,

or even like short and medium-term future as well,

kind of might play into their hands.

Whereas Stolars would, you know, in a year ago,

been looking to block everything.

Maybe there's a world where he's a little more open to being moved because of the,

you know, shrug emoji state of state of the Leafs right now.

Yeah, I would imagine so.

And I'd also, you know, I would guess that it would depend who would be interested in him as well.

And what that means to him in terms of the living situation and whatnot,

you know, obviously, were it to be Edmonton from a competitive standpoint,

I'm sure he'd be very interested if he wants to live in Edmonton.

I can't answer that part of the equation.

Toss-out sounds like a toss-out to me personally.

It might be, and so I also think there's kind of an interesting underlying theme where

I don't believe the players are looking at it as a bleak sort of future.

And I know that it gets a lot of attention, you know,

we hear it all the time, it's going to be tough for the Leafs to attract free agents,

or guys going to want to come to this, you know,

massive a situation right now.

All of Reckman Larson was, you know, he couldn't have been clear.

He had no interest in leaving.

He was, he actively came on and said, I want to stay here.

We love it here.

My family loves it here.

You know, Scott Lotton wanted to stay here.

Bobby McMahon wanted to stay here.

Like all these guys wanted to stay.

No one was forcing their way out or jumping ship or bailing on the situation.

You know, Austin Matthew is going to get a lot of attention now and how he feels.

We have no idea what we do.

You know, it was generally speaking.

The guys that left did not want to leave and actively wanted to stay

under what terms and conditions.

We don't know that part or it's the extent of it just yet.

But, you know, I don't necessarily know that the feeling in the room is,

this is terrible.

Like, we don't want to be here across the board.

In fact, it's probably the opposite.

They like being here.

Now, whether that's a good thing or not, you can kind of take that back to

the scope of five days almost.

But, you know, I think I definitely want to be here more than they don't want to be here.

Yeah.

If I could just get ahead of the, like, let me play editor for a minute for the

column.

You will inevitably write about like five train destinations for Anthony Stollars.

Jersey, like he's a Jersey guy.

That should in theory be a good team.

They're always looking for saves there.

So I'm just like going to, going to help you out with that.

And it's like, hey, you know, if you can trade with the Devils,

it feels like a pretty good place to be.

So if I could just just just put that in your thinking cap for you for the summer,

when you're inevitably writing, writing that piece.

All right, I'm looking at your latest in in Maple Leaf Hot Stove.

And again, like, check out Anthony's work.

It is wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.

The, the crux of the issue with the Leafs here,

yeah, the play has been frustrating and you don't like the way anything's gone.

But the hottest button issue is the suspension, the injury, everything that happened with Matthews

there. I like the point you made.

I made it right away myself as well.

The idea of why is Austin Matthews agent louder about this than the team that employs him

and whose future will go the way he goes here.

It seems like this Leafs team has always been a little shy about using their bully pulpit

that they obviously have available to them.

And you know, you pointed out a lot of good examples of this.

Be it the, be it the surgechev and Neelander like,

ah, one, one's a fine, one's not, the cadre, you know, stepping over the line.

It's like no one needs to defend that as I'm cadre here.

But it does seem like the Leafs have got the short end of the stick

when it comes to the NHL's department of player safety.

How much of a not just a miscalculation is this in terms of like them using their bully pulpit

and how that would help or not, but just an understanding of where this fan base is at.

Like, there's been talk about they should fire Craig Barubay to give the fans a piece of red meat.

I don't know like what's a, what's a red or piece of meat

than the NHL's department of player safety.

It's like everyone gets to tee off on them.

Why can't it be the Leafs?

Yeah, it's, it's unbelievable honestly.

If you really think about it, right?

You know, Connor McDavid got suspended and the Oilers put out a press release.

Oh, he's sharing our fans frustration and and here you have the Leafs and as you mentioned,

you know, his agent comes out with a, with a pointed and strong message, which was spare.

And we really haven't heard a word from the Leafs.

In fact, the only one who's come out, you know, had anything is Craig Barubay.

We haven't heard a word from Brad Shaleving, haven't heard a word from Keith Pally.

And I'd argue, you know, you could, you could question, you know,

should Keith Pally be involved at all?

I would argue that that's a pretty significant enough event that it would warrant hearing from him.

Right? This is their captain.

They pay him the second most money in the entire league.

And he just got knocked out for the rest of the season by a third pairing

defenseman at this point in time. And that's their pairing defenseman who has a history,

gets suspended for not even a third of the time that Matthews will miss for the remainder of the

year. And it would be fair if he came out and said something and we don't hear anything from them

at any point except for Craig Barubay kind of making some comments, which were honestly

disappointing in their own right, right? It is what it is for upset because it's our guy that's

heard, you know, things of, you know, that was his tone. And those were some of the exact words

that he said. And, you know, there's just, there's the least kind of treat themselves.

And it's disappointing for I think fans that treat themselves as a like corporate entity that

toes the line. And, you know, it doesn't want to step out and he brash in any which way. And

they don't want to upset, you know, the overlords of the lead kind of thing. And it's just kind of

led them to this point where they're constantly drawing the short end of the stick when it comes to

department of player safety and suspensions and how things are constantly dealt with. And,

you know, even if you extend it just on a, on a smaller scale, like every year, they're at the

bottom of the league in terms of drawing power plays. And, you know, you can say, well, yeah, they're

bad this year. That's what happens. They've been a really good team for, you know, nine years. They

had the longest playoff, you know, streak in the league going for nine years. And most of those

years, they were at the bottom of the league in terms of drawing power plays. So whether they had

the puck or not. And it's just, it's always along these lines of things. And the Leafs don't say

anything. And I think it's fair for fans to be frustrated. I don't think MLS is doing, you know,

a good job of handling those things. And we heard the report on Saturday from Friedman that,

you know, the Leafs came out slinging to make a case. Private Leabhrin closed doors about him

getting suspended. And, you know, I just, I think we're at the point where we can all sit here

and just be honest about it and say, it's not good enough anymore. They need to put more pressure

on things. They need to be more far more assertive in their stances, publicly. And honestly,

if they need to support their players better, I just, I, to me, that doesn't suffice. When you

have this agent have to come out and do that and you still haven't said anything of no, it just,

it doesn't meet the mark. No, totally. I will say in terms of breadcrumbs there, it's like

future leaf, Connor McDavid doing a great job to stick up for his one day teammate,

Austin Matthews. So that was nice to see there. But I mean, like, yes, you can take this as high

up the food chain as you possibly want. But even if it stops at Bradshaw living, like who needs a

win publicly more than him? Like he trades McMahon for a second and a fourth. He's got five points in

his first two games with the Kraken. It's like we have to relitigate the car low trade every day

for the rest of our lives, especially when Boston gets some jewel at six overall or whatever it ends

up being this year. It just feels like that is the easiest public win the tree could have, could

have possibly had. I think that's the part that just, I don't, it's not even about like me being

angry. It's like, yeah, okay, Shocker, I'm mad at the leaf's given the way this season has played

out. But you would just think that a guy like that would want the biggest, you know, easy win from

a public perception standpoint of like, you know, I can easily see the conversation among hockey

dads of like, well, you know what, you made no good trades, but at least at least he stuck up

from Matthews or at least he stuck it to the league. Like that's the part of this. I just can't

wrap my head around from true living standpoint. Yeah, it honestly was low hanging fruit to your

point there. And, you know, again, we can't stress enough the overarching point here is it's

warranted. It was one of the rare hits where everyone agrees that it was bad, right? There's

often, you're often here when there's a hit, you know, someone trying to as a pruder film it,

and break it down like frame by frame to the point where they're like, no, it's actually not that bad.

If you clock it and look at it this way and, you know, go in slow mo, this was a universal across

the board. Everyone looked at it and said, this is a bad hit. It's an unacceptable hit from a player

with the history of doing that. And yeah, to not come out and say anything publicly, it's not

surprising, but it can still be disappointing. You know, I'd bought this up the gunning earlier,

Anthony, but I'm curious, get your take on the idea. So whether or not just simply like the

effectiveness of having true living or baroube speak out on really any issue, whether it's the

goodest hit or anything else at this point of the season, right now where we stand on March 16th,

if it's been somewhat neutered because there is a lot of uncertainty that exists via job security

when it comes to those two. And again, I'm not saying they shouldn't. They probably should still say

something, but I wonder if that's a part of the reason why they just think to themselves,

they being the organization and MLSE and so on thinking to themselves, well, you know what,

maybe these guys aren't going to be here in the span of a couple months.

Yeah, I think that's fair, right? Yeah. I mean, if that is their line of thinking,

I would just say then Keith Pellys should have come out. It'd still be, you know, it'd be even

more powerful if he did it, to be honest with you. So present to the entire organization,

not just the problem, it believes that is taking the time to say that, you know, it's just just

a really poor decision by the Department of Player Safety and kind of address it that way.

And that would probably lead to speculation as to why he's doing it instead of branching

living and people would probably read through the tea leaves there, or that the case. But, you

know, at some point, hey, I get it, right? You're sitting there going is the GM going to do it.

If we don't know if the GM is going to be here and do we want to put that extra limelight if we

have the president do it instead of him and all these questions and they're all fair. I just

think at some point that that part of the equation is honestly, it shades more towards a relevant

and you're just sitting there going, regardless of who's going to be here next year or not,

still are capped in its face of our franchise. We pay him a ton of money. His season has been

prematurely cut short. You know, those are the things that matter more than any of those other

things. And just needing to stand up for your guys and support them publicly, you know, in a way

that puts the Department of Player Safety potentially on edge in a bit more than negative spotlight

than they probably already are. So I just, I think that would, you know, sort of trump any of those

other things, at least for me. Anthony, when we look forward as well, talking about what lies ahead,

I did want to ask you about how the leaves have now tallied five of a possible six points here.

And I just want to preface this by saying this might simply be me coping with them,

essentially winning their way out of better draft position when it comes to a draft pick and,

you know, not conveying that pick to the Bruins, but is there a case to be made where it is better

for the leaves to give up, let's say, the 11th, I think they're tied for 12, 11th, 12th right now,

points wise in the league. Is it better for them to give up, let's say, the 11th to 15th overall

draft pick and just make sure that pick is off the books as soon as possible because I hate to say

this. There is at least a small chance there are not going to be a very good team in the next two

seasons, both years in which they do not own their first, their own first rounders. So I wonder if it's,

if you're not going to be good in the interim, but, but not bad enough to have a top five pick,

let's say, I wonder if they might as well win as much as possible between now at the end of the

season, just to get, make sure Boston gets the 16th overall picker. What have you?

Yeah, obviously the best case scenario is you draft top five because it's a good draft. We know

it's a good draft. You don't know what the top five is going to be like and then you give in

year. This one, you know, it seems, seems more like a top four right now. If you get a chance of

one of those four guys, it's worth it. Short of that, though. Yeah, right. It's, it's,

look, in my mind, I've always kind of been a proponent of just clear the picks as fast as you can.

Yeah, the idea you clear the books, right? And you're not kind of, even in the event that you

did draft top five this year, you're looking at the next two years already guaranteed to not have

your pick. And that's, you know, that's a big grim, especially with not entirely sure where

the direction of the organization's going and any number of factors. So there is a, you know,

a very plausible scenario where you sit there and say, okay, let's just offload these as fast as

we can and not be handcuffed by this anymore and just sort of move forward that way. That,

that is a good scenario. It's not as good as just keeping the pick this year. I would say,

right? You know, just saying a bird in the hand is better than two in the sky.

All right. If you were to get that top five pick, but yeah, short of that, it's going to be,

I'll, I guess you're cheering for them to win as much as they possibly can. But we'll see how that

plays out. The, you know, their bowl tending is great right now. If you guys are kind of shooting

the lights out, their schedule is still pretty difficult down the stretch here. There's a long way

to go before anyone could feel comfortable either, which way of where that pick is going to go,

unfortunately. Yeah. And franchise center bow franchise centerpiece bow grew is here. So we'll

be, we'll be just fine. And look, the other part of this is like, okay, bottom out to top five.

You really have to bottom out to bottom three to truly guarantee yourself this, right?

With the ability for teams to move up and have a lottery works and their nine points clear

of the black ox. We'll occupy that spot right now. And I don't think the black ox are about to

go on some tear. I don't know if you've seen them play. I hope for your case, you haven't because

it's been brutal there. They got a, but again, everyone's, everyone's trying to be the connox when

it comes to bad hockey teams. And nobody can match that ineptitude this year. Far from inept,

they actually quite wonderful. Anthony Petrielli always loved getting you on. Thanks so much, bud.

See you, man. Thanks for having me, guys. There he goes. Anthony Petrielli check out his work on

May Belief's hot stove. And he'll have another piece coming out later today. It's my understanding.

That's the inside scoop. Again, though, came from Austin, Mackie. So do with that. What you,

what, what you will. No, look, Mackie knows. Okay. It's like he, he's always got an excuse of

why he can't pronounce a name or something. There's things he knows way too much about,

but the problem is is he tries to cram so much information in there. Like some stuff just comes

like flying out there outside. It's like, I've experienced less Tennessee Titans or what we

need to do for this job. More Toronto. Oh, I see. I said, I said Titans. And he just like perked

up back there like my job. What? Anyways, the Petrielli thing. I think he hit the nail on the head there.

You can hope for losses. I'm not going to sit here and tell you not to, but I have come

back around how I initially thought on this thing. It's just so hard to be bad in this league,

especially if you're going to get saves. And it's not hard to be bad, but it's hard to be as bad

as you need to be. That's really bottom out. That's it is. I made this case from the jump.

And I'm back to it. It is way harder to be the worst team in the NHL than it is to be the best.

Like you could convince me it's way easier for the wild to play even par with the avalanche than

it is for the Leafs to play as bad as the conucks have this year. It's just it is impossible to reach

that level of an aptitude, especially if you're getting saves. And the problem is is the Leafs

don't have one guy who can give him saves. They might have three for sure to right now in

Stolars and Wall. Then you throw in. I don't know how much longer this last like I don't think

the Leafs are going to be, you know, fighting in a scrum every nine seconds for the rest of the

year. But I feel like you have probably another week of the embarrassment and the shame hanging

over them from how the Matthews goo just thing played out. Then you're going to have that goo

dis game where I'm going to say right back to Anna. Right back to Anna. It's like that probably,

you know, perks you up for another game or two there. And again, it's like the ducks leading their

division. They stink too. Like what's they they're young and stink. So it's like hopeful stink

attitude. But they got 77 points. There's seven points up on the Leafs and think about how we've

talked about them this year. So you get saves. You have a team that's, you know, wanting to compete

in being ornary. I hate to break it to everybody. That is a recipe for not failure. It's not a

recipe for success. Like you need more than that for success. But it is a recipe for not failure.

And I think people need to wrap their heads around that. Yeah. I think that's why ultimately,

I think I'm okay with the Leafs. Winning out is not going to happen. But winning enough games to

not can or to convey pardon me the pick to the Boston Bruins. Because I think again,

I think if you go down the rabbit hole, let's say they did and I'm with Anthony that, you know,

if they were to, if they were to somehow pick up Keaton Verhoff or something, that'd be great,

right? You saw a problem. No question. But then if you go down that rabbit hole and what lies ahead,

even beyond that, you know, unprotected picks down the future, you still, you don't have a

pick next year already because of the trade you made with the flyers. So it's just, there's

there are a lot of problems that lie ahead. I think that's why what I asked Anthony about just

clearing the way he phrased was clearing the books as soon as possible. I think that's probably

why that is generally speaking the best way to go. But you're right. The Leafs are going to be caught

unfortunately in this in between essentially. They won't be bad enough to be in the bottom five.

They'll be good enough right to play off. So you're essentially conveying the range I wrote down

was 11 to 15, but it can be a little bit better than that. It can be a little worse than that.

But yeah, probably it probably a pick not good enough to convey a top five player to the Bruins,

unless, you know, every team above them makes some monumentally stupid decisions, which I suppose

is possible. It's happened in the draft before, but I don't know. I think I think I'm okay with it

based on where they are standing right now. Yeah. Plus, maybe this isn't the way I should view life.

I trust and I don't trust either of these entities, just so we're abundantly clear. I trust the

hockey gods to reward the Leafs for playing well down the stretch. Then I do trust Gary Batman

to break the draft lottery to save the Toronto Maple Leafs. I'm just saying like again,

neither of these entities have come through for me when I needed them. But if I have to pick one

to trust, I think I'm going to trust the hockey gods in there. So go on, play good hockey,

at least compete. And they've been doing that as, as a plate. I should let you know, it's March

Breakout. And if you're aware of this show, it's the only thing I could think about my house is

so stressful right now because we have a child who bouncing off the walls had descended to baseball.

Can't get out of here because he's already old enough to be in school. He is in school. And it's

like somehow, oh, this is so good. Somehow the camp is longer than school is. So it's like,

God, I'm out of my house even longer than, than need be. But if you need something to do,

Scotia Bankerina is home to two unforgettable fan experiences for the ultimate March Break

family adventure. Today, Raptors fan day hits with a Raptors team showcase up close moments

with your favorite players, exclusive giveaways, merch deals, and more than Thursday March 19th

is Leaf fan day with the Leafs and Sceptors three on three showcase interactive events prize,

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Raptors fan day today. Leafs fan day is March 19th. Get your tickets now at ticketmaster.ca

more leaf talk coming up on the other side. It's Marley's season with the Leafs like all

these guys are coming up. And who better than the Marley's whisperer to talk to us? Joshua

Cloak athletic Leafs writer also going to talk to him a little bit about Canada Soccer. On the

other side of things, we got one segment left in fan morning show in sports net 590. The fan.

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Fan morning show, Dunning Ali, busy, busy time in sports. As I said, it's like we got the madness

going on this weekend. I had a great golf tournament, the Leafs against I think a lot of people's

will or somehow finding a way to win games. We're going to have Canada soccer stuff coming up this

month. And if we're going to have hockey going on and Canada soccer stuff, well, who better to talk

about than Joshua Cloak athletic Leafs writer also covering Canada soccer as well. Cloak always

love getting on how you doing on a Monday, but morning boys, what's going on today? Oh, you know,

not much just, you know, scouring through the wreckage of Austin Matthew season being over

and the Leafs picking up points. But honestly, man, like I love your Leafs opinions all the time.

But if we're going to have a bunch of Marles in the lineup, it is really your season here.

What have you made of all of the like I will make this as wide open as starting question as

possible? What have you made it just all the discourse around this team of like toughness and

having each other's back in the Matthew's injury and the dead cap bounce for a team that is

out of it from a playoff perspective. No, not technically yet because even the connox

aren't eliminated. So no one in the NHL is, but man, it feels like there's been a lot to talk

about for a team that season feels dead and gone here.

Well, you guys can't see, but I just added some gray hairs on my beard. As you ran through all of that,

you know, it's funny. I was at the Buffalo game covering the Buffalo game on the weekend,

right? And Craig Brube kind of brought that up. He was like, it's just been a rollercoaster of

a season for Austin Matthews, right? When he was talking about the injuries and, you know,

up and down play and then going to the Olympics and, you know, the follow from that. And as he's

running through it, you can see him kind of looking exhausted. And I just kind of followed up and I

said, well, it's been a rollercoaster season for the team as well. And I just said, have you ever

experienced anything like this? And it was interesting. He started to say, and I'm not the only one

that saw this. Some of the other reporters kind of followed up afterwards. And it looked like he

started to say, I've never experienced a season like this. And it looked like he was leaning towards

saying, not necessarily, this is the worst season I've ever experienced, but essentially, I've never

been through something like this. And for Craig Brube, who's played hundreds of games in the NHL

coached, you know, a ton of games like he's an NHL lifer. And again, he didn't say this, but I'm

kind of, I'm reading the tea leaves here. That's where he was going to go. He then kind of deflected

and said, we'll talk about the end of the season when the, you know, when the season is over,

but you could see it in his face as he was kind of running through, you know, everything that's

happened, like it's not just that this has just been a bad season. And they were disappointing.

There's just when you go through the list of things that have happened, this leaf season,

like, are we allowed to say, like, it's been a season from hell? Like, it really feels like

sure. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Okay. Because like, that's, that's the way it feels. And like, you know,

we've got to the point, and I put this in my story on Saturday, like the results right now,

frankly, are insignificant, right? We all want to look big picture, think big picture with this

team. There's some really, like, good, interesting stories right now. You kind of touched on it,

Bolgrew, you know, looking like, you know, Bola Mew, the way he's playing for the leaves right now.

We can talk about that and how, you know, maybe the leaves should have been looking to the

Marley's earlier this season. But man, when we kind of write the book, and I do think there's

probably a book to be written on this season, I don't think we'll be far off in saying there has

never been a leaf season like this. And I really don't know if there's going to be one like this

again. You know, on Barubay, because I do want to get to grew with you. No question, Josh. But I

do want to ask you about Barubay first. I mean, he seemingly has the team playing a little harder

in the wake of the Matthews injury. And I do think it's valid to ask as some have where this was

for the majority of the season. But I do wonder when we look ahead to what might be instilled in this

team in the future, you think this is sustainable in the sense of how they've been playing going

forward? I mean, is this simply just, oh, we lost the captain for the season, they're not making

the playoffs. Guys are getting more ice time that they might not always have. Is it a little bit

of all of that? Or do you think this is something that might permanently be present in the team next

year? Whether or not, Barubay is the head coach next year. The physicality or just the way the

kind of, like the dump and chase that maybe the physicality, maybe the physicality of these guys.

I think that's something we've been wondering about for much of the year. Yeah, like I think that

just kind of like, but that competitiveness that we saw in the game against Buffalo the third

period against Anheim, like on one hand, you want to applaud the Leafs for evolving, but that's also

isn't at the floor, like isn't at the bare minimum, right? For a good hockey team is sticking up

for teammates and just playing physical, playing competitiveness, like totally. It's funny, like with,

you know, again, back to Buffalo, just because like I was there, there was a number of us kind of

circulating the Sabers room that morning and asking whether because the Sabers went through

something like that too, right? The name of the player itself escapes me, but like last season,

you know, there was a Sabers player who kind of took a heavy hit and no one really came to his

defense and the Sabers had to learn this too and the way that they talked about it, they weren't

eager to pass themselves on the back. It was very much like, yeah, like we learned and now that's

just what we do because it's what we have to do. So like I think if you're going to be a team that

makes a deep playoff run, you really have to feel like you're playing for each other, right? And

I think there needs to be conversations very high up about, you know, how to create a room that

is harmonious and how to create a level of togetherness. That's not to say that there's, you know,

disharmony in the leaves room, but like I just think that if you look at teams that go deep

in the playoffs, they stick up for each other, they compete, they play physically because they

believe in each other. And I think that's just been instilled from the top down. And yeah,

we just haven't seen that enough and, you know, the Buffalo game, the end of the Anon game,

it's a start, but you can't go into the season waiting for it to happen. And that's something

Brube brought up again. I asked him, you know, that, that physicality that you saw against the

Sabers, is that something teach that you can teach or is that something that, you know, has to come

from within and he just said, he's like, I've been trying to teach him all year. And again, you

don't have to like, you can read between the lines there like this is something he's been, he's

been trying to do. He touched on it, you know, at the end of the season before when they collapsed

against the Panthers, right? It's all mental. So there's a lot to look through, but it's certainly

something that's going to need to be examined and addressed from the top down, right? Yeah. And

look, this is a thing where it's like the call has to come from inside the house, okay? Like, you

know, go pick the teams you want to be at the lightning, be at the Panthers. Like, I don't think

those teams stick up for each other the way they do because of John Cooper and Paul Maurice.

Like, I don't think they're standing in the way of it by any means, but it's because of the

guys that are on that team and the style that just kind of permeates throughout their lineup.

I don't know what the recent Sabers example you're thinking of, I too am like, rack my brain,

can't quite figure it out. But all I could think of was the Ryan Miller on the Landau

Cheech. And it's like, well, I mean, he certainly learned his lesson, beating the wheels off

Patrick Coletta. Like, it is funny the way these things can go sometimes, but you're right.

Like, it's there, there's also to my knowledge, I can't remember there being the like bottom

of the barrel and HL team that has stuck up for each other. Like, it does feel to your point,

like the idea of like, it is the floor of where a kind of competitive organization has to be.

And does it not kind of feel to a certain extent? Like, this is the last call for that from the

Leafs. I know we've had this, we've had this conversation a billion times in Leafland,

like, hmm, when are they going to learn? When are they going to stick up for each other?

If it's not going to happen now in a lost season and with the captain out and being injured

the way he is and it's Radco-Gudas doing it, it does feel like if that's not going to be the

wake-up call, it's just kind of truly never going to happen. Yeah, I, what's the meme? Like, I wish

I wasn't always, I'm butchering the wording of it, but like, I wish someone told me that like,

we were living in a good time. Yeah, the Andy from the office of like, God, if only there was a

way to know you were in the good times when you were still in them. Yeah. Or like, I'm, I'm so sick

it's so tiring, like, living through historical events. We're people that are listening or screaming,

they know what it is, but I try to, you know, only spend so much time on Twitter, but look, like,

I really believe the point is I really believe the Gudas hit on Matthews will go down as a

seminal moment in the history of the modern Leafs. Like, just from a visual element, it was so stunning

watching that happen. And it was so clear that, and it's difficult because I, I feel very

confident that had there been some different players on the ice, maybe something would have happened,

but just because it was so jarring physically, and the whole league is talking about it.

Like, it's one thing to say, I like the Leafs collapsed in the playoffs. Like, that's not,

that's not something that, like, that's news, but it's, that's kind of, it's become routine.

That wasn't routine. And that really suggested that there's, there's something real missing.

Like, it's easy to say, oh, they need a DNA change or whatever, whatever the buzz word is going to be,

but like, you can't, like, just again, because the visual element is so striking of seeing your

captain laying on the ice. And, and, and no one doing much about it. That's something that, like,

can be played and that's something, and this isn't like a new thing either. Like, you go back,

you know, Sheldon Keith had to, like, have a meeting after Timothy Lilligrand,

you know, took a run and, and no one stepped in for him, right? And, and he had to show that the

team clips of other teams sticking out for their players. And like, this is, it's that visual

element that I think is really going to haunt the leaps. And I really think until they make a whole

scale change in terms of, like, attitude and personnel, it's, it's going to hang over them.

So I do want to ask you about Bo Grou, Josh, and the man of the hour, certainly. Now,

he, yeah, I do like it. He, one goal for a guru in three seasons and 65 games of the ducks.

And now three as a leaf in just the last few days alone. Now, this is a guy who will cost just

over $812,000 next year. Is there any chance we're talking about him playing a bottom six role for

this team next year? Or are we simply just saying the jury's still out on that until the season is

over, essentially? I mean, I think there's a chance because I really think the leaps roster today

won't look anything like the leaps roster. Or sorry, it can't look like anything like the

leaps roster come October. I'm, I'm in camp rebuilt, not retool. And I was also, you know,

my colleagues will back me up on this hopefully. Like, I was in, you know, team tank in January too.

Like, I really think you can't come back with with anything resembling close to same roster next

year. That's going to be difficult. Sure. But like, I think the rest of this season is about

auditions, right? Who really believes that they can kind of, or who's going to show that they

belong on this NHL roster next year? And like, Bo Gruz is a fascinating case because like, he was a

pretty high draft pick. The pedigree is there. He spent a long time in the minors.

But he's a case of, and, you know, prospect heads will know this. Like, he's a case of development

not always being linear, right? And some players just like do certain things over certain summers

that really allow them to, to pop. And I know for a fact like Bo Gruz spent most of this last summer

really developing his shot and low and behold, like his shot has really stood out once he's

gotten opportunity. You know, there's a number of things that can come from this. I, I hope the

leaps and I've written this like, look at the rest of the season and say, we can't just put one or

two Marley's in the lineup. Like, we got to really see what we have here. Luke Cames, William

Villanov, like, maybe there are NHL players there. And there's literally no downside in trying

these guys for the rest of the year. So for Bo Gruz, like, sure, he's a big guy. He skates well,

plays with a lot of confidence and great dude, right? Like, I think that's something the

Leafs are really going to have to focus on too is bringing good character people into their locker

room to move on from from this season. So yeah, I think there's a chance he ticks a lot of boxes.

Can he have a good camp? Maybe. And can he win a spot? Like, I think there should be spots

available. So it's on the player, but he's showing now that he can score at the NHL. So it's

short answer. Yes. Yeah. Plus, I mean, coach his son, whoever the coaches is going to love him.

Just like, I like this guy. He's just like taking notes and meetings, paying so much attention.

Happy brought up Luke Cames. This was like, you know, it's funny. These things get talked about a

lot and then usually kind of peter out into not much of anything. He was like one of the hot

college free agents at the end of a couple seasons ago. I think they got to give him specifically

a chance because look, like, do I think Alex steves is the difference between this Leafs team

being good or not this year? God no. But if he can play 40 games for the Bruins, I don't understand

why he couldn't play on this Leafs team this year. And this guy, they're just kind of like

cut bait on that last year. Like, I'm sick and tired of the Leafs having these guys who are once

in the or go on and find success. Whether that's like capital S success or just like carve out an NHL

career for themselves, the Leafs are going to need those guys. So I feel like the past should kind

of inform those decisions. And Hames feels like the poster child for it. Well, it's a it's like

a philosophical debate. But I believe young players need to be given enough of a leash in the NHL

so that they can make mistakes and figure it out. Now, if you're the Leafs, they have not shown

a propensity to play young players because of A, there's obvious pressure to go deep

in order to make the playoffs and get in. So you're going to trust veterans and then just like

Rube and tree living are veteran guys, right? They're not that the types that like want to give

young players a chance. And again, a lot of that is dictated by circumstances and the pressures they

face from above fine. You don't have those pressures in March and April now because the playoffs

are not going to happen. Like, Hames is probably a full year away. I think he needs another year in

the Marley Stads and size and really just get a better kind of like tactical understanding of

the pro game. There's a lot of great tools there. But it's going to take time for those tools

to sharpen. But I don't think there's any harm in giving them a few games and just saying like,

what do you got? Like, why would we, if you're the Leafs, why would you just look at like,

well, what's he going to do and or what will he do in two or three preseason games against,

you know, strange lineups in September? Like, you have this time, use it to play him. Like,

Caliarn Crock is not going to come back, right? And there's other players that are not going to be

back next year. Those players should not be playing, right? But there's just been a hesitance

from this Leafs team to really give young players rope. And it goes further down, right? Easton

Cowan, Nick Robertson, you know, a few years ago. Again, this is a philosophical way of thinking

and it's a way that I've debated with people in the Leafs about this. You know, I'm sure I would

be better suited to be a GM and in Sweden or Finland where they play young guys easily, but like,

I think if you're looking at it and and young by the way, young means NHL age or sorry NHL

like games. Like Bobby McMahon still feels young because he hasn't he's played like what two,

three full seasons. And to, you know, even though he's 29, like that's still that's a young

NHL years. And I think that can extend to the Marles and, you know, look at guys that haven't played

a ton of NHL games, but are knocking on the door. Again, you don't know what you're going to find

until you try. Josh, you not only cover the Leafs, but you cover Canadian Soccer pretty closely.

And we have a few friendlies coming up here for the men's team in advance of the World Cup later

this summer. So March 28th through April 1st, they're playing in order, Iceland,

Tunisia and Uzbekistan. So I'm sure we'll get some more updates on the roster in the midst of

some injuries to guys like Alfonso Davies and Promise David, of course. You did have a peace

up on the athletic on roster projections. Are you expecting any surprises when we learn more about

the roster? I think as soon as this week. Yeah, for sure. I mean, first thing, Jesse Marsh is going

to bring a larger than normal roster. Usually the rosters are around 26 guys. And there will be 26

players going to the World Cup. I think we could see as many as 30 players for a few reasons. One,

there's injuries. Alfonso Davies is not coming. And that's pretty jarring, right? He won't have

played for Canada for a full year because of various injuries. So you haven't mentioned Promise

David as well. He was probably third on Canada's striker, death chart, third or fourth. So you have

big kind of roles to fill. So Jesse Marsh has said, I don't want to just say, well, I'm going to

get this player to take that spot. I'm going to leave that open to two or three players to try and

grab a spot. So there's that. And then again, like just there's there's other spots. I bet you

Canada is probably they've probably ticked off 21 22 of their 26 spots for the World Cup. So

there's probably four or five spots open. And he wants to give as many players as possible as much

runway through the March window to earn one of those final spots. So yeah, I don't know if there's

going to be real surprises. I think it's just going to be a number of fringe guys looking to

grab a spot. One name that I will mention that I think could be there in terms of a new player

as Arab and Pepple who was a Canadian Premier League player. And it's since gone to England and

really bounced around. I think seven clubs within two and a half seasons. But he's really found

his form with Plymouth R-Gyle and scored nine goals in his last 11 games. I think he's going

to get a call up like Jesse Marsh just wants players in form with their club side. So I think he

could get a call up whether that's a World Cup roster spot we'll see. But it's interesting. Like to

me, it's just like a complete change of pace. If we're talking like the Leafs and Canada Soccer,

Jesse Marsh wants to give young players opportunity. There's mistakes that are going to come with that

in the game. But he's he just really believes if you're good enough, you're old enough, right?

Yeah, love to hear that. Cannot wait. It's going to be an electric summer one way or another.

Obviously with World Cup games have been played here also. I just should let you know Josh

Sergeant TFC's newest man there. He was on the show last week. Hockey guy like played hockey growing

up and said he was at the Blues Parade. So I don't know if there's a feature in the works there.

But just wanted to put that on your radar. He is he is a hockey guy, Josh.

Good. I could always use more ideas. I'm going to yeah, I might be a little bit busy this summer.

But sure, another story idea. That's great. There you go. Yeah, I know who doesn't love giving

other people work to do. Certainly not me. Josh absolutely loved the time. Thanks so much for

jumping on with us. Yeah, no problem. Boys, take care. There he goes. Joshua Cloak. You can

check out his work at the athletic again. Like I think that's the rarest double threat. Like we

got a lot of guys who like, you know, you and I show like to do a lot of J's. I do a lot of

leads, but we're generalists. It's like the hockey soccer crossover is not always there.

It's not very common, but I mean, as the World Cup gets hot in the streets this summer,

and we won't have a lot of hockey to talk about in the city as soon as like spring happens.

It'll be interesting to see how that plays out. Another fun edition of Fam Morning Show.

You're back with me tomorrow show. It's been another edition of the Fam Morning Show on

Sports Nem 590. The fan. Good morning.