Life on the Fringes + Dan Shulman's Difference Makers

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All right, well, we still have Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday,

three more sleeps, four opening day.

That's pretty easy to talk about something.

Well, we're doing that on Wednesday or Thursday.

As soon as one of the members of this team gets his picks in,

we'll do it.

Oh, you've nasty to that.

Oh, I am nasty to that.

I'm nasty to that.

Yeah, we try to get our free season picks done.

And this guy says to me, oh, something's working.

I've been working.

I've been traveling.

You've been working.

Yeah.

And moving today, you sent me, you sent me a picture of yourself

smoking a cigar in Florida.

Yeah, you've been working.

That was in between working.

Yeah, you guys try to get along, won't you?

Mm-hmm.

Uh, I still have to work today.

And the first thing out of your mouth was you try to hurt cats.

Well, I don't know how to help you try to get stuff together,

you know, and you're, so Kevin said,

well, you have to do your preseason picks first and then send them

to me so I don't pick the same teams.

That's not how it works.

Absolutely it does.

It's not how it works.

So you're going to make some pretty, because my picks, as usual,

are spot on, you're picking the meds, you're picking the meds

to win the national league, which is, oh, I tell you what,

they may are.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Well, they are.

Okay.

They are.

Okay.

Okay.

They are hard to repeat and repeat.

It is.

And repeat and repeat.

Really?

Three out of the last six.

Yeah.

Anyhow.

So we'll do that at some point in the next couple of days.

Once Kevin finds enough time and is busy scheduled to.

It'll be tonight.

Guy.

Okay.

Get your shorts in a bunch.

All right.

Um, when you broke camp with, with the Milwaukee Brewers, I,

I'm looking at some of the guys who, Connor Griffin isn't going to

open the season with the pirates.

Kevin McGonagall is J.J.

Weather hold is with the Cardinals.

You know, a lot of guys that a lot of people think.

Yeah.

Well, really a lot of what are you trying to do when he's pretty good?

I think he's better than anybody else.

Well, well, I mean, it's about putting fans in the season and I always about

winning with the pirates anyhow.

Can I come watch a player that I like to watch?

Here's I wanted to talk about the year you broke camp with the Brewers.

Yeah.

What was the last week of spring training like for you?

Like when did the Brewers tell you you'd made the team?

Yeah.

When did you feel you'd made the team?

Like, could you just because I had someone ask me this the other day about that?

Yeah.

That being told, and who's the, uh, the pitcher,

Bommler that was told on the mound that he made the team, right?

But Texas Ranger guy.

Well, I mean, whatever.

It's a nice.

It's a nice.

I mean, I think it is a lot better than staying.

Hey, thanks for that.

Yeah.

Enjoy.

Enjoy those 11 a.m.

Starts in Pawtucky.

Uh,

you tell us a little bit about what, what that was like.

Like when you found out who told you how you, like,

what a big, what a big, what a big fair in 2000 when I made it with, uh, with the Brewers.

I'd already know.

I'd, I'd made it.

I had a pretty good one.

I got caught up in 99.

I had a pretty good September.

I was hitting the ball.

I guess the way they wanted to see me hit the baseball and, you know, Davey Lopes was,

you know, he was all, he was all on board for about a month with Ocevo.

So, you know, it was, when I showed up to spring training, it was more about, you know,

working on something.

That's the first spring training in the last.

Do you have a different locker when you got?

Absolutely.

Well, I got to go and feel one a bunch, which is, you know, when you're in field one and,

you know, when you're with the big lakers, there's a good chance that, you know,

you've made the team and, and they kind of feel like you're a part of what's going,

you know, moving forward with just however they're trying to win baseball games.

And I kind of knew and, and I'd kind of, you know, sort of knew what they wanted me to do in the

offseason.

I played Winter Ball, which I do every year.

And, and I was trying to work on whatever they wanted me to work.

I didn't remember as forever, but I was working on some things and it wasn't so much about

coming to spring training and making sure you're short and quick to the baseball.

It was, you know, maybe if I don't like trying to, you know, get the head out on good

velocity and off the plate, maybe trying to take that.

It was, you know, it's not so much a results oriented as of.

It was, you know, just get athletic and, and give yourself a chance to hit the ball hard to the

pull side.

It's little things like that.

And me having an actual sprang, I think it's the worst spring I'd ever had too, Jeff.

I can't remember exactly what I, but it wasn't very good.

I do remember that I wasn't, I don't think I hit a ball hard the entire spring training.

But that was the beauty of that.

Like that's the beauty of, you know, it's a little change when you're on a good team like Chase

and sort of their main guys and fans come to the game and they want to see results.

Like they want to see Vladie looking like Vladie in the, in the world series.

Like they want to see George Springer looking like George Springer.

They want to see Kevin Gosman, you know, they want to see all these guys doing well.

But when I made the team in 2000, it was, you know, the worst stunt.

So it was more about, you know, everybody going out there trying to get their sort of their,

their mechanics right and trying to figure out, you know, sort of what, what would make them

a little bit better in spring training.

I use spring training for what spring training is supposed to be used for to get better.

It's not all, it never was that way again.

You didn't have, you weren't just trying to make a team and press and, you didn't,

you weren't the type of guy that had to get in shape though, right?

Because you played winter ball and you're already, you're in shaping.

I know, you're a great God.

I mean, that's absolutely.

Yeah.

But that's a, that's a, you know, that's an easy way for somebody to write a paragraph

the next day about, you know, those guys in the best shape is Greer.

Like, look at the things he was doing in the off season.

They got nothing else right.

Like it's, you know, it's, they're professionals.

They get paid enough money that they're supposed to.

I even heard that when I was at the TD ballpark about Vladie.

Man, Vladie's never looked better.

It looks slicker.

Like he looked, boy, looks like he's stealthy out there.

Never looked, I heard that and stand.

And I chuckled little, I was like, you know what?

They had to do the half a billion dollars all of a sudden.

He looks slicker.

I don't know, but I think that's sort of the gist of it is.

You know, these guys got a little window there.

The established guys that know coming in to camp today while we're already made the team.

You know, it's like Nathan Lucas.

I think John, I would assume jokingly told him when he was, whatever he was doing.

I think he was playing, I don't know what he was playing, but he was playing some game

somebody and John walked up and said he made the team.

You know, there was any doubt that Nathan Lucas is going to make the team.

No, you know, a part of me, I saw that and was he joking?

Yeah, well, I'm looking, I remember John, well, as a matter of fact,

I'm looking at it right now.

John said when they made the deal for Sanchez.

Yeah.

He told Lucas, hey, this has got, you know, I know you're going to look around

and go, here comes another left-hand hitting L-fielder.

Yeah.

Don't worry about that.

This does not mean that you're, you know, any less important.

Very assured.

It's kind of, like, not so much if you've got to go out to him.

And maybe, I don't know.

Maybe John had heard, I mean, who knows, right?

You hear a, a skip, you know, the guys, I don't know.

And I think, I will say this with Nathan Lucas.

And I think this is a good thing.

I do think, Nathan Lucas has a lot of fans in this organization in this front office.

Yeah.

And that, and I can see maybe, John, I would think maybe getting a sense,

just, just coming up and going, hey, hey, big guy, you're coming to town.

Oh, no.

He's not hitting the second for you.

Severina's on the mountain.

It's right-handed.

Threads hard.

I mean, he is for me hitting the two-hole.

I mean, let's you left.

Well, unless you're going to have,

as you Sanchez is not doing that Dalton Varsho.

I would assume it's not hitting the second.

You want him hitting homeers, right?

You've got a guy who can use the entire field.

I mean, a fire show is the game with some crooked homeers.

For me, a fire show isn't hitting second.

Then I've got Lucas hitting second.

That's just me.

Yeah.

Again, I don't know.

He didn't hit a ton in spring training in the two-hole.

I mean, we saw Ernie there.

We saw Nathan Lucas there.

Did we see Sanchez in the two-hole?

I don't think so.

Like we, at least I didn't.

So there was, you know, I'm sure again,

and John mentioned the word fluid to me.

And I'm sure that it'll be the case, right?

The hot of stand.

But he's seen Nathan Lucas.

He's seen that play out there.

I mean, the way I look at it is this.

There were two lefty bats that are going to be in the lineup

every day, Barger and Varsho.

And then one of those other two lefty bats in my...

I don't know.

Is there a world where John goes with both Lucas and Sanchez?

Well, now again, I don't know.

I would think because of the way the conversation is around Sanchez

about it has to be the right matchup.

The starter, that indicate.

You know, whatever that is.

Again, I haven't done enough digging into what the matchup,

you know, the right matchup is for him.

You know, hard in self the way.

You can tell he's a big dude.

He's a tall dude.

He's got a long arms, right?

It's...

That screams hard in self the way.

And I...

You notice the spring training.

I think that's kind of...

Especially the way even the race.

I think the last game's a playing TD ballpark.

We'll be in chase.

We're there.

My son.

And you could tell as soon as he ran up,

the third base was running over past shortstop.

Yeah.

Like they're doing the pull thing.

That'll tell you hard in self the way that kind of thing.

I'll have when you mention it.

Because one of the things John Gibbons used to say is that the race...

He said, the race pitch us in a spring training game.

The way they pitch us in a rig.

Absolutely.

Right out the game.

Absolutely.

Like he said, it is the...

No secret.

It is exact.

I would just laugh at him.

He said, he said, they do the same damn things on...

Gibbons line was they do the same damn things on March 2nd

that they do in September.

Yeah.

How he came a narrow was, you know, I asked a year trying to get past shortstop.

Yeah.

So he can play over there, right?

Yeah.

I mean, it's...

But I just don't know.

I don't know how they feel about Sanchez.

You know, the step 40's taken.

They're saying all the right things.

And sort of, I think, you know, he's looked a little bit better

at the end than he did at the beginning.

Like he looks like he can compete.

He can take a pitch that he should be taking.

And when he gets a pitch that he should be driving,

he's starting to drive him.

Is that going to translate into the big leagues?

Or into the regular season when they want to use him?

And where would they hit him?

Would they feel comfortable giving him an head bat instead of somebody else

in the two hole?

Like, you got to remember that day, right?

You got to remember who's hitting behind you.

You got to remember what your springer's doing.

So bottom of the line up is very important for this team,

especially turning it over to whoever's going to hit him.

At the top of the order behind your origin.

You know, again, the stanchist thing,

that's just a little bit of a storyline going forward to see,

you know, kind of worries that who he is.

He's like Cody Ponds.

Do you have any idea?

I think they're wishing.

They're hoping.

But, I mean, I almost think with Cody Ponds,

I mean, given where you are right now,

with Parios and your Savage and Bieber.

I think you take what you get from Cody Ponds.

And then, to me anyhow,

well, you know, let's see what Eric Lauer does

because at some point in the next month,

there will have to be a decision.

Somebody's going to be coming back,

whether it's your Savage or maybe Parios.

Somebody's going to be coming back.

And to me,

it's competition between Lauer and Ponds.

You see who gets to stay in the rotation, right?

Because none of the other guys are going in a bullpen.

So, we've got basically guys you got a month here.

You got, let's assume they're going to go,

they're going to slow play your Savage's recovery.

Let's say you've got a month for Lauer

and Ponds to show you what they have.

And one of the two ends up in the bullpen.

If we know that the player has to know,

that can't be the easiest thing.

You know, I went through that a little bit

when I was established a little.

You know, I never was at the point

where I was making enough money

that, you know, I felt comfortable that

if I had a bad starter,

if I went over 10 or, you know,

if I missed a ground ball on a big spot

and cost them a run,

like, you know, I still had a job tomorrow.

You know, I can't be the easiest thing

to know that every day,

you know, Eric Lauer's job is not the easiest of jobs.

Like, you know, he's got to run out there every time

he gets to ball whenever that is.

Now, it's every five days.

It could be every three days.

And a little while,

like, it's not the easiest thing to know how to,

he's still more change-ups.

Like, can he throw more change-ups out of the pen?

I don't know.

I mean, you know, he's got a smooth delivery

and, you know, some good arm speed.

And it's hard to tell the difference

between all those pitches

that he competes

and their strikes to the very end.

But I mean, it can't be easy mentally.

But again, this is, I think,

the beauty of a good team

is you've got other options.

And competitions,

competitions, never a bad thing.

I did talk to John a little bit about that too

and passing of, you know, he said,

there's not a lot of competition on this team.

But where it's at,

it will make the guys that are competing better.

Right.

Which I think is what you want.

You don't want Cody Ponce to go out there

and just feel like he's got a job no matter what.

Like, you want him to go out there and go,

there's a little bit of care here.

Like, I'm getting it and going.

I want to get after somebody

and I'm not saying he's not going to be good.

But how good can he be?

You know, I wouldn't be surprised

if he's six and nine.

But also, I wouldn't be surprised if he's nine and six.

Take a, I would tell you what,

I would take an,

I would take an Eric Lauer type of year from last year.

Oh, boy.

I don't Cody Ponce this year.

You ain't won't much, are you?

No.

But that's, that's,

that's, that's,

that good stuff today.

I will.

I will.

I will.

Hey.

You ain't won't much.

What makes you think he's not capable of doing it?

No, no, don't.

That's like that.

They better.

Don't Jeff.

He just kind of went there.

Nobody, nobody, nobody said that.

But there's a lot of unknowns.

And the last time we saw him in the big leagues,

it wasn't very good.

And again, you know, doing it in spring turning,

he's the guy, right?

It's like when you see him do it in spring turning,

is it for real?

That's all.

I, again, I thought he threw harder.

I thought it was,

I thought it was velocity was more consistent.

I always start.

Or two when I was down there.

It will, he started out at 94.95,

it was in and up at 92.

93.

Can he get people out?

I don't know second time through at 92.93.

I'm not saying he can't.

I'm not saying he can't.

No, but it's a fair fair fair fair.

But I'm saying that's the intriguing part of,

let's see it.

Yeah.

Well, we'll have to.

Okay, that's,

and they have enough options.

Like you mentioned,

I mean, they got a whole second team waiting.

Like you said,

that's the Dodgers.

They point out like,

do what you want when you want.

That's where they're at.

That's how good they are.

Well, they're going to win it.

By lot.

And they can do whatever they want to do

to get everybody lined up to do at the end.

It's got nothing to do with the,

that's kind of what you're saying.

Yep.

Like I heard in cats.

All I was,

I mean, I didn't want to go down that road.

You know,

I just,

I, I,

I will make the same point.

At some point,

the levied healthy starters.

And there's no place you can,

there's no,

you can't put them on the,

we don't want to use them list.

Or we're,

we're waiting for another,

we're waiting for,

for two weeks list.

I think the only one way

to bring the community of this team is

because of where they're at as an organization

and,

and sort of the,

the predictability of,

behind the doors,

like under the,

the underground city,

they understand what makes everybody tick.

They'll know where everybody needs to be to,

yeah,

but to help their team

want to baseball game.

You still,

you could put the guys

that are healthy in the pen.

It's those kind of things.

What's all I'm saying?

You're not going to be able

to put three starters,

three of the eight starters

in the pen cap.

It's not going to work out that way.

Jeff,

they'll slow play it enough

to where all those,

they don't have to make a decision.

They'll make sure they're,

and where they,

you know,

dips, not these,

what did I read today?

I read some on a road to dance.

They use,

they use 34 different pitches last year.

Where are they going to put the guys all this?

They're going to need every single one of them.

Every single one of them.

That's all I was saying,

they're going to be given guys rest

in the middle of the year.

Oh.

And that's, there's,

there's no problem.

I'm in the camp,

the American leagues better,

the American leagues is that much better.

I don't think they can afford to do that.

The best will be pitching for the Jays.

Of course.

You know, you're,

you're going to need to get some guys

pushing 30 starts.

Yes.

Obviously the first two guys,

then somebody else has got to be,

or somebody else's,

has got to be really, really good.

Not really,

but really, really good.

They're starters.

At least four.

At least four.

They're starters to come.

And don't forget.

And the other,

the other factor here,

you've got mac sure's or,

you know, mac sure's

it doesn't need the money,

but his contract,

the more you pitch,

the more you give me the,

the more money you get,

I,

I got to assume macs like that.

Kevin Gossman could be

pitching for a new deal,

you know,

or going out,

or renting his career.

So I mean,

there's a lot of,

there's a lot,

and Shane Bieber,

when he comes back,

he's,

he's looking

to possibly be a free agent

next year after a lockout.

So,

a possible lockout.

So there are a lot of,

a lot of guys in this rotation.

They've got a lot of

stake this year.

Now, what you just said

by saying,

Gossman,

Seas,

Bieber,

and Scherzer,

you can imagine a lot of those four

dudes up in the road

when they're 100% healthy.

Yeah.

I mean, that's pretty good.

That's,

what I like to say,

cookin' with gravy,

boy,

and then you go with lower.

And, like,

you can do what you want.

Or burritos.

There you go.

Like,

you want to stick them all in the bowl.

And we didn't even think

about that guy.

Like, there's all in the bowl.

Oh, I mean, there's good.

I want to go back in.

One or two of those

that are going to have

to do some lamer-leafening.

You took the train off the tracks.

I want to go back

to the whole rookie-make it.

Well, normally I do it,

but today you did it.

I want to go back to the whole rookie-make

and the team thing.

Because there are,

if you've been around spring,

there are signs.

Players know

when they're no longer the,

you know,

I've played 16 years.

I knew it once.

That you made the team once.

Once.

That was that year.

Once.

I knew,

and I was spending 99

that I was the guy.

Okay.

David Lopes, walk up to me

and said,

prepare yourself.

you're the guy.

I know it leaving.

What did he—

That was it?

What fun was over after that year?

I was gonna say,

what was said to you

after you were sent down?

What was your next spring

like After you were sent down?

I really don't want to say that

because, you know,

the conversation between me

and Dave,

You don't want—

No, I don't mean that.

But I mean, when you were sent down,

coming back the next spring,

How is there...

What did you notice

I noticed about the difference the way you were treated coming back.

Well, I got traded in spring training with pod raise the next year, so I basically walked

because, you know, we shared the complex with the pod raise.

So I basically walked across the street, right, to go to the pod raise and ask me when

I met Rick Sweet and I went to AAA and I think that was Portland, Oregon.

I want to say I can't remember, but I'm pretty sure they were in Portland and I went there.

But, you know, it's kind of basically, you know, I was, I was a little with that prospect,

right?

You're, once you're prospect and you have the pea beside your name, you get a lot of

breaks, like you get a lot of opportunities.

Do you think you were still a prospect when you went to the pod raise?

No, I knew I wasn't.

I knew as soon as I got sent down from the big leagues that year, my time was up.

You could tell the writings on the wall, like you just tell organization didn't have as

good a feel for you and relationship with you.

Yeah, it was.

I mean, I got sent to, I got sent to AA from the big leagues.

I was a starting first baseman and I went to AA relationship between the manager and

myself.

Wasn't great.

It wasn't great.

I mean, I'm not going to dig into that right now because it's Tuesday.

And the season as he started, I, but it was, you know, it's just the way it is like

that.

And that, that, when you're going to spring trainings like that, I don't recommend

that for anybody.

It's not the easiest thing to do.

You know, that, that's why I was, I went, that's one of the main reasons why I wanted

to play Winter Ball as long as I could as close to spring training as I could play it.

After that first year, was there, did you have a spring training though where you thought

you were really good and you thought man, like I got a shot at making this team and

never disappointed.

Well, there, there's a couple of times when I was at the reds that I had, I knew I had

a good chance of getting called up or being the first couple guy.

I say this to you all the time, right?

That's that.

Even if you don't feel like, yeah, Dusty's, Dusty was a big fan of mine.

He thought I, you know, had it between the years, the baseball IQ and, you know, I was

pinch running.

Yeah.

For people in the big leagues.

I wasn't the fastest guy, but I was smart bass runner, like I would cut the corners

good and I would end up at the base.

I was supposed to end up at and Dusty knew that.

And we were fighting for a playoff spot a little bit and Lance Knicks, I think got sent

down.

That's the reason I got a lot of play in time with the reds is, it's because of that.

But yeah, it's, Jeff, it's very hard, like I know you've covered a bunch of people that

are on the fringe and just have no idea what their future looks like.

I have no, it's, I mean, I've spoken to guys have been sent down the day they've been sent

down.

I've spoken to guys that thought they made teams and were sent down.

That's funny.

You said that.

Now, I was, I was sitting in one of them days that I did our show and they were loading

the trucks, having the cars on the trucks to go to Toronto.

I've done that before.

I'm not going to mention the team or the manager that I did this with.

I was told I made the team.

I had no idea I was going to make the team, but I, I, I was told I was making the team,

put your car on the truck, put my car on the truck a day later, they, they brought in

somebody else.

Truck was already in the place that it was going and then I was like, well, what do you

do?

And the clubby drove it down to where I was going to play in the minor leagues.

So it happens, man, like it's, and I, and I was actually when I was sitting in the car,

looking at them load the trucks and the cars out of the car because I couldn't afford

to truck.

So I had a car, but it's just the one that had a first face in my toy on a four runner

was the first car I ever bought and that's, that's kind of where I was at, but that brought

back some really bad memories.

Like it was.

Yeah.

You know, that's, so that's what you go through.

It's, you know, like David Schneider's going through a little bit of, you know, where he's

just grinding through everything and he's, he's tried to make the most out of who he is.

And that, that, that versatility thing, like he'll do whatever they ask him to do because,

you know, he's kind of on that.

Is he a 26 guy or a 27th guy?

I've been there.

Now there was no 26 guys.

So you're subtracting another dude.

Does it, when I played, so there's only 25, but I've been where, you know, am I on the

table?

You know, Arana, it's, it's, it's a, it's a terrible feeling here and you say that.

I remember when I covered baseball again, talking to guys who had just been sent down, guys

who thought they made the team that didn't make the team.

But back then, I'm sure guys went down knowing where they were in the pecking order, but

I don't ever remember writing or talking about this guy is like the next guy on the, you

know, if the guy gets hurt, this is the guy they're going to bring up from AAA.

There's never really anybody, sometimes the pictures there were, but in terms of position

players, there was never, you never saw a guy leave spring training go, man, he's first

injury.

They're calling this guy up.

It just, it wasn't a thing there for whatever reason.

Nobody felt that way.

Guys who were caught were pissed.

They weren't buying, you know, if Gary Carter gets hurt, you're the next, they weren't

buying any of that.

Well, the beauty of the Blue Jays now, if you're in the minor leagues, if you're like

just cassava, it's like if you're him and you're thinking to yourself, the conversation

around me, if I don't make the team and say they get rid of Leo, him and his, and I'm

sort of the next guy in line, even if I go down, I'll be the first one that gets called

up.

It's like that.

I'm on, I'm so on the verge of being a part of what, you know, and you got an organization

like the Blue Jays who want to spend a bunch of money.

So they don't care about calling the guy up, spending service time like they don't care

anymore.

It's about when it now.

So if you're in this organization and you're a guy like Josh, I mean, I never was on a

team that spent this amount of money before and I, you know, I had to basically fight

and claw and scream and get off to great starts and, you know, I was choking up first game

of AAA.

You think I've been choking up?

It's cold and my stats mattered.

Yeah.

Me hitting a buck 90 in AAA wasn't working.

I wouldn't fly no matter what month it was in and I needed to get off to a good star

because if I didn't, I was being released like that.

That's the highs and lows you go from is the high was I got to go to big league camp.

I got some meal money.

I didn't make the team which was the low.

Now I'm going to AAA, which I'm a part of that.

I'm going to play every day, which is the high.

But if I get off to a slow start, I'm canned.

That's the low.

So what do you do?

You get you a bat.

You either get some smaller ones because it's colder and you know what?

Because I'm in the aisle and the international league is freezing, you know, buffalo and Indian

apolis and Louisville.

You're been there, Jeff.

I have been there.

I've been to all three of them.

Try to get one of them white things.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's not very cool.

So, you know, it's, it's a little all over the place and I feel for these dudes again.

The Blue Jays are not really going through any of this.

Yeah.

But man, there's a bunch of teams.

You know, it's like Pittsburgh, the top prospect.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Jeff, I just kind of, you know, some of these things they do are mind boggling a little

bit.

The thing with the pirates too is they, they, in the offseason, they went out and signed

with some guys.

They, you know, they didn't act like a big market team, but they acted like they acted

like a team that, if you closed your eyes and thought about it long enough and wished

about it, wished for it long enough, you could see them maybe breaking with their best,

with their best players.

But yeah, I just, I mean, they brought in some veteran guys.

Some guys that know how to hit the, what better time to surround.

Yeah.

You're probably cornerstone going for the only reason you do now, the only reason you,

well, I mean, I don't even know, I don't even know.

They signed the money.

Didn't they sign them to a contract?

I had some good question.

I have to dig into that.

Really?

But yeah, it's very, I don't get it.

Very, very, very.

Pretty much the team where people come and watch it, it's a ball to the moon.

To the moon.

He's awfully good.

Well, he can't bat me.

He's a tall kid.

He's awfully good.

He's got to figure it out.

Right?

How do you use the entire fit?

How do you take a break and ball?

How can you backspin a pitch?

You shouldn't be backspinning like, oh, wait, you're getting figuring that out in

a triple eye?

You can figure it out in the big leagues.

Uh, we got a, uh, we got a big show ahead, Dan Shulman, Blue Jays play by play voice on

SportsNet, joins us at 230, Ben McDonald, Baltimore Orioles, analyst on massin, or is it

form a number one pick in the draft form or pitcher, he'll be along as we take a look

at the Baltimore Orioles.

And Kevin Kiermeyer joins us at 330, surprise, surprise, Kevin Kiermeyer is going to be on

TV.

He's a part of the, uh, he's one of the new MLB network analysts along, I think, with

our good friend, Eric Hosmer.

So, um, always, you know, always great to talk to Kevin and look forward to that discussion.

But before we break a reminder that little acts of kindness and the time when it seems

everything is hopeless is one small way to make things better.

And one simple act you can take today to have a direct and immediate impact in your community

is donating blood at your nearest Canadian blood services donation center.

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of contribution to a world in need of solutions.

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app or call 1-888-2-donate.

Dan Shulman's next.

It's Blair and Barker on the SportsNet radio network and SportsNet.

Hey, it's Ben Ennis.

And I'm Brent Cunning.

We got you covered on all things Leafs, Raptors, and Blue Jays every weekday morning,

6-9.

It's the fan morning show SportsNet 5.9 to the fan and wherever you get your podcasts.

Gentle hand of experience.

You're a beauty.

Well, I was going to be a long year.

No, they're going to win.

They're going to win the East.

I think they are.

Yeah.

I think they are.

I did too.

See what Dan Shulman thinks.

He's our Blue Jays play by 20 areas.

Still haven't gotten a new helmet.

No, he's still got.

Why would I get a new helmet?

Because that team's not great.

Are they?

They're okay.

Oh, you're the Bronco.

Yeah, you remember.

Oh, you knew.

I remember.

That was not a good.

I have some big memories with how that one ended.

That was messy.

I love that.

That truly was.

That truly was messy.

Good to see you, Dan.

Thanks.

Thanks for doing this.

I'm going to ask you because I think the consensus is before we take a deeper dive into

things about the Blue Jays, just in a general sense.

The consensus seems to be that the American League East is going to be really tough this year.

If you look at the prediction markets, or if you look at any of the odds markets, everybody's

predicting like 87, 86, 86, 86, they're predicting a very close race between five teams.

I think I saw one, I think the race, somebody had them, one of the pools had them at 83 or something.

So basically it sounded like almost everybody over 500 in the division, which given that.

What do you think could be the thing that separates the Blue Jays from the pack?

How about, I'll give you two.

One is depth, which I think is better, especially on the pitching side.

If you want to have fun, go to baseball reference and look at the 34 different pitchers who

pitched for the Blue Jays last year.

A few days ago in the media room at the player development complex, somebody, I think it was

really good.

And it was, can you name the eight lefties who pitched out of the bullpen for Blue Jays last

year?

Wow.

And this turned into a game show for like the next 10 minutes.

And even though it was all in the last year, you know, we cover the team every day, our

reactions were like, oh, man, I forgot about that guy.

Oh, that happened like stuff happened last year.

It wasn't like it was all rainbows and puppies and they, and everybody did great and they didn't

have injuries and they still managed to hide away to win 94 games and win the division.

But I think their depth is better this year.

It's certainly better than the rotation and they need all of that depth right now.

And then if guys get healthy, some of that depth is going to go to the bullpen.

So I think depth on the pitching side is huge.

And then number two, and Barker, I heard you talking about this.

I think yesterday, what do you got Vladie written down for?

What was it?

Thousand OPS.

Yeah.

Thousand OPS.

A thousand OPS.

That's a big number.

I think he was 848 last year.

I believe hang on, hang on.

Let me get rid of that.

Sorry.

I think he was 848 last year.

And for 90 something percent of players, that's a great year.

But we all know Vladie's ceiling is about as high as anybody's and I don't know if I

can put my finger on it, but I think there's a huge year coming for Vladimir Guerrero

Jr.

That's a game changer to me.

Okay.

How about to make sure?

So you mentioned the starters.

We're training.

We've heard he's throwing harder.

Obviously, we saw that.

That's predictable now.

Like we, because he's healthy, now that he gets to ball every five days, Dan, you think

they feel like he's going to look the way he looked in spring training.

I mean, the way he looked in spring training was phenomenal.

Did not give up a run in three starts.

It was funny.

Talk to him and to others about a couple of his starts, like against Minnesota.

I mean, he wanted to face more batters.

You know, he wanted to get more pitches in.

But he was, he was getting them out so quickly.

He wasn't able to really get going.

And I think he's got one more where he's going to try to do six, six innings, 90 pitches

on a back field or minor league game or or something like that.

But he's obviously, he's way ahead of where he was last year.

He had the thumb injury.

He had one start and didn't pitch again until whatever was late June or early July.

So listen, I don't think they need 32 starts and 190 innings out of him.

You know, Gossman and Seas, you want 32 starts and 190 innings out of those guys.

Yeah.

I want a lot of starts and a lot of innings out of him.

After that, you know, is Lauer going to bounce back and forth?

His guys get healthy, certainly a possibility.

You know, does Max, even if it's going really well, do they find a little, you know, a little

all star break, a little 15 days and give him a little breather here and there?

I mean, shoot the three of us all take a little time off during the season.

Why shouldn't Max take a little time off during the season?

So, you know, I know he wants to do 32 starts and 190 innings, but I don't think they need

that from him.

You know, if they can get 24 nice really good starts from him, five to six innings, that

would be great.

And then you hope that Bieber comes back, whatever, middle of May, late May, and looks good.

And then Treya Savage obviously is tremendously important and hopefully he's back in a few

weeks as well.

But they've got a lot of guys and I know he asked about Max, I think he's in a great place

because I think he can give them what they need.

They don't need him to be a one or a two or a 200 inning guy.

They need him to be really good.

However many times he's out there.

Yeah, you mentioned Vlad, he blighted OPS last year's 840, he said an OPS over 902 times

in his career.

That's 24 and 21.

Yeah.

I might be, you know, shooting for the moon here with a little bit, you know, closer to

a thousand and closer to 900, but it just looks different.

I mean, I watch him a lot, we talk about him a lot, we break him down until we were,

our eyes are popping out.

He just walked on the field different.

I don't know what you saw, but that's what I saw.

I agree with it and I said it on the air once or twice and I think one time I said, I

can't remember if it was with Kayla, but Joe, I said, I'm going to have trouble putting

this into words where it makes sense, but something is different this year.

More comfortable, more confident, but like quiet, easy confident.

You know what I mean?

Like not pounding his chest or anything like that, you know, I mean, a couple of things.

Firstly, a year ago at this time, he didn't have a contract.

Now he's got an, you know, an incredible contract.

He never has to think about that again.

And also he's coming off a season where he had incredible success on the biggest stage.

The sport has to offer.

When you do what he did, when he did it, how can you not feel really confident about what's

coming?

It's still a very good lineup around him.

He looks great physically.

He looks in great shape.

I think he knows it's his team.

He's the leader of this team and again, not that he's jumping up on the table in the middle

of the clubhouse and saying, hey, everybody listen to me, but you guys know how he is.

He's just got a really easy way about him and everybody loves being around the guy.

His, his, you know, his positivity, his personality, it's infectious.

And I, I think he's primed for a big year and fact checked me on this, but I think between

spring training and the WBC, he only struck out once.

Yeah, very small sample size, yeah, very small sample size, though one was, I think because

I was driving around listening to Ben do it on the radio.

I think it was Paul Schienz who got him and it was a pitch after he hit one 12 miles,

but just fouled down the left field line and then Schienz got him on the next pitch.

Like all the markers you're looking for are there that suggest that he could have a

big year?

And whether that's a 920 or a 960 or a 1000 or whatever, you know, he was 848 last year,

I'll take the over.

Yeah, it's interesting hearing you say that too, because you think about Vladie and I'm

glad you mentioned the contract because I think at the start of spring training this

year was either, I don't know if it was in a media scrum and what he was talking to Hazel,

but he talked about how this is the happiest he'd been as a member of the blue jays.

And I thought, okay, well, this makes sense because one got the contract.

That was a talking point last year, not a talking point now.

Two, he's had success in the postseason, biggest stage, you know, that was a talking point

a couple of years ago.

Hasn't it that think back to Kenny play first base, is he going to be able to play it

every day?

Think back to my God, is there going to be a weight issue with this guy when you think

back to all the things people were either quietly worried or about or at least wondering

about Vladie?

I mean, he has checked all, he has checked all those boxes and I'm with you.

I listen, I think he, would it surprise any of us?

He's an MVP candidate this year, no, he should be an MVP candidate, right?

He should be an MVP candidate.

And I bet you there are some people watching and listening right now, if they like to worry

about things or wondering about, well, what will he be like without Boba Schett?

We all know they go back like nine years or however many years it is.

We all know that they love each other and they've referred to each other as brothers.

But the notion that he will struggle because Boa isn't there, doesn't resonate with me.

And this has nothing, this is nothing against Boba Schett, obviously, but a couple of things,

you know, a couple of years ago, Vlad Ilos, Teosco Hernandez and Lordes Guerrero Jr., who

were also like brothers to him, it didn't hurt him.

And Vladie and Boa both grew up in the game with fathers who were significant and in Vladie's

case, a Hall of Fame caliber player.

These guys understand the business of baseball and they probably have, you know,

since they were little kids, I mean, they know what's going on.

So I'm not saying he doesn't miss him, of course he would miss him.

He's been a great friend to him to each other for years and years.

But the fact that he may struggle because Boa Schett isn't there, doesn't hold water with me.

I think Vladie's mind is in a great place.

I think his body is in a great place.

I think he knows on his, he's on a good team.

He's surrounded by good players.

He's got the contract and I think he's rare and to go.

Dan, is there a player that you're intrigued about early in the season that you would like to see?

I don't know. What's he like? I like that.

If you're talking to yourself, you're, you know, you're walking in from the, from the press box,

you're talking to yourself. You're like, man, I can't wait for this guy to start or I can't wait

till this guy plays like Sanchez, like Cody Ponds, like any name.

Is there somebody you're intrigued about?

How do you know I talk to myself when I walk?

Because I do it.

We all do it.

Yes, and my son thinks I'm nuts.

Can I give you two?

Absolutely.

Okamoto, really, really, really want to see Okamoto when they start keeping track of the numbers.

You know, you and I were talking a little bit and we saw him kevin down in Florida and

everything I saw in games and at the PDC said this is a good major league ball player.

I don't know if he's a star, but a good major league ball player.

I think he's going to hit some home runs.

We know he's going to take some walks.

He's always hit for a pretty good average.

And I didn't see every play of every game, but everyone I did.

He made every play that a guy needs to make down a third base.

I think he saw it. Is he going to be Matt Chapman?

No. Is he going to be solid to above that a little bit?

I think yes, he's a one guy.

And I am kind of fascinated by Dylan C's to be honest with you.

I mean, the stuff is electric.

And we talked to him yesterday.

Siddler and I talked to him yesterday.

And one of the things he said that one of his big goals is

get rid of the inconsistency.

Like not have the Saiyong runner up year and then the 455 ERA year.

Like speaking of ceilings, like Dylan C says a very high ceiling.

And he knows that.

And he wants to lock in and get us close to his ceiling as he can.

He feels the blue jays can help him get there.

If his command is pretty good, I mean, that slider is wipe out.

The fastball is 97.

He's working hard on the change.

He's got a curveball.

He's got a two seamer.

He's trying to mix up his pitches a little more.

I am really, really intrigued by Dylan C.

Yeah, you might be the one guy other than Gosma

that you have to see 190 innings from.

Oh, and there's no question.

It's never done it in his big league career before.

So that's a something right.

Part of that is walks a little high pitch count gets up there.

So instead of six and two thirds, it's five and two thirds, something like that.

So you know, certainly when you have that kind of stuff, you trust the stuff.

He's like, he's not a kid.

He's been around a while now.

And he knows what he's capable of.

He's going to have a very good defense behind him.

He knows that.

And you're right.

Like Gosma and C's are the two who at the end of the year,

you're saying 32 starts 190 innings.

And then you figure it out after that.

But I don't care who's the one who's the two.

As an aside, I think it's great.

Kevin Gosma is getting the opening day start,

given what he's done for the franchise.

He deserves that opening day start.

But it wouldn't be great if it was a bit of a horse race between those two to see

who was the best on this.

Absolutely.

Yeah, I think that would Dylan C's is.

I mean, he's going to be around here for a long time.

Yeah, at some point, he is going to be Kevin Gosma.

At some point, he's going to be Kevin Gosma.

Yeah, big shoes to feel for this team.

Yeah, I can't remember which game it was.

I think Caleb was working the game with you.

If I'm not mistaken, you had Pete Walker on in-game.

And you asked about a guy that I hardly heard about in spring training.

And Jeff Hoffman.

And Pete made the point about,

quite frankly, I don't think the Blue Jays were too thrilled with the fact that

Jeff Hoffman missed time with them to go to the WBC and not be used.

Where is he?

Where is Jeff Hoffman right now compared to where in your mind,

anyhow, Danny, compared to where you think the Jays wanted him to be?

Did he have enough work in the spring?

You know, or things kind of are they on the right page?

I just don't hear a great deal about him.

Yeah, so he was only gone for the semis of the final.

He was gone for, I think, five days.

He wasn't gone for 16 days like some of the other guys were.

But I talked to Hoffman the day after he got back.

I don't remember what day that was, but the day after he got back.

And at that point, he was like, I got to get some throw in it.

And if I'm not mistaken, starting that day, he was in a game day off, in a game day off.

And then yesterday they had an introsquat game that I was at, at TD Ballpark.

And he threw in in it.

By the way, those kinds of it, they could have had two out innings.

They had some four out innings.

They put runners at second.

They started with runners it for like, there were no rules.

I'm pretty sure that I saw one team was winning two to one.

And then the other team was winning three to one.

I have no idea who was playing for who.

But all I was doing was watching the pictures get their work in.

And Jeff Hoffman got an in and in yesterday.

So I talked to Hoffman yesterday morning before the introsquat game.

And I said, where are you at?

And he said, I'm good.

He said, I'm getting another inning today.

And like the three in five days is exactly what he wanted to do.

And I think today is the down day, right?

They've got another introsquat game tomorrow.

I believe at the Roger Center.

And if that's the case, I'm sure he'll get another inning.

In that one, and that would be four appearances in seven days.

If he wants to get another appearance, I think he's, I think he's good to go.

I think he's ready to go.

I think 10 days ago or something they were a little bit concerned.

But given that, he was only gone for five days, not for two.

Like they would have loved for him to have pitched once in the WBC,

but we're only talking about one appearance, one inning that he didn't get.

So I think he's in the right place.

Dan, do you think he feels pressure?

Sorry, Jeff, I just want to, you know, we know how the season ended.

You know, if he comes out and blows his first save,

and I come on Jay's talk and Jeff asked me the question,

which you know, Jeff's gonna, and I'm going to have to answer it.

Yeah.

Do you think he feels pressure?

You know him better than I do to get off to a good start.

And I've said this to you guys,

like I'm a huge fan.

I think that there's an A plus human to being there.

And I think the stuff's really good.

And I think we talked about this last year.

I went back at one point and looked at a bunch of his regular season home runs.

And a few of them were, man, how did that guy get to that pitch?

And, you know, maybe it was just sequencing or he got baseballed a few times.

I'm not taking, I'm not overlooking the fact that he gave up a home run

and then I didn't give a game seven of the World Series.

I know that, but I do think that in his other 11 postseason appearances

or a however many there were, like he was nails.

And I think all three of us would agree with that.

He was absolutely everything they needed him to be up until the ninth inning of game seven

of the World Series.

The pressure question is interesting.

And the first, not the first time, but one of the times I thought about it guys

was when I heard Jeff Hoffman is being added to the team USA roster for the WBC.

Because if I were feeling pressure, I don't know that I would put myself out there

by joining my company's team for the WBC.

And that says to me, he's in a good place mentally.

I have not gone up to Hoffman and said, how do you feel?

Are you over it?

Are you feeling pressure?

And I know he's done a couple of stories.

There have been a couple of articles about it.

But I think he's in a good place mentally.

I don't think, I don't think I go to team USA or team Canada for that, you know,

for that matter, if I'm worried about pressure.

Now, as you say, if he gives it up on opening day,

you know, then you've got to do whatever work you've got to do to get yourself back

in a good place mentally.

But given the committing to team USA said to me, he's okay.

Yeah, I think the other thing too, that John has talked about this.

And I thought back to an interview John did with us early last year.

Kevin and I have kept mentioning this.

I mean, John kind of cautioned people coming out of spring training about Jeff Hoffman.

He was going to be the closer, but he was also kind of saying, you know,

this guy hasn't gone wire to wire before, et cetera, et cetera.

And I think one of the things that happened last year is, and you saw it,

reflected in how they, in what they did in the off season,

is I think they realized that the very least they can do for Jeff Hoffman

is try to give him some regularity.

So you get Tyler Rogers, you picked up Louis, Varyland, you know,

you're going to have Jimmy Garcia coming back.

Brendan Little looks really good.

And it seems to me now, if you're John Schneider and the coaching staff,

it's probably going to be easier to ensure you don't have that

three and five day, three days off, one and four days.

You're going to have a more regular routine form.

And I think that's got to help.

That has to help a closer, Dan.

It just has to.

And not only that, and again, fact check me on this, I think he had four

two inning appearances in the first couple of months of the season.

He did, yes.

And some of that was, you know, it's great as the offense was last year.

It wasn't in April and May.

And they were in a lot of games that went extra innings.

And Hoffman, I remember a couple of them.

Hoffman, like, got the outs.

He got, he needed to get in the top of the knife,

walked into the dugout, or whatever top or bottom of the knife.

Doesn't matter in the ninth inning.

And, you know, got him quick and walked into the dugout.

And like, didn't even look at Schneider.

And, you know, maybe Pete went over and said, you're good.

And Hoffman's like, yeah, I'm good.

Like, he took the ball for multiple innings on multiple occasions.

And a couple of them were like in Arctic temperatures, too,

at the beginning of the season.

Maybe that Boston New York trip.

So it's not only that don't give them too much time off.

It's try not to use them for multiple innings.

Now, sometimes baseball dictates it.

You're down in arm or two and it's extra innings.

And you got to use your best guy for a second inning.

Hopefully they can avoid that.

But, you know, this bullpen, I think we'd all agree.

This bullpen right now is better than the bullpen at the beginning of the last season.

Oh, question.

You know, debatable whether it's better than the one at the end of the last season.

But I think it's definitely better than the one at the beginning of the last season.

And hopefully he can be used in a more typical closer fashion,

one inning almost all the time, not getting too many, you know,

not doing three out of four or four out of five too often,

but also not having five days off between the parents.

It's easy because we're up against this easy question.

Yes or no, should it's a fan of the J's if I am.

Should I be confident and Brendan Little when John Yelts for Helm,

he comes right out of the pit?

Yes or no?

You know, at the beginning of the other spring,

I don't know that I would have said yes.

But again, you and I have watched him and we've talked to people about him.

Yeah.

He's got four pitches and he's throwing the fastball and slider for strikes to get back in the count

when he needs it.

And so that gets guys in swing mode.

You know, if you throw a four seamer up and the two seamer has the move and it does

and then the curve ball down, I'm going to go, yes.

Yeah, the people that we've talked to me and you said he could pitch in the ninth inning.

They believe.

How about that?

I think so.

I think that's great.

And you know what Mason Flewhardt is pretty darn good.

I heard that too.

Well, he's got a prolifer of him.

How about that?

You're the best buddy.

Yeah, Danny, we appreciate you doing this man.

Thanks so much.

See you Friday.

Yeah, be well.

See you Friday.

Okay, but let's see you.

That is the great dance shulman.

He is our blue jays voice on sports and opening day is Friday.

And the folks at Rogers have put together three new programs

to bring customers and fans closer to Canada's team.

I'm going to I'll give you the details on that

after the next break because it's there's some really cool initiatives from Rogers

to celebrate the jays 50th anniversary and fans are going to want to hear that.

So we'll deal with that.

After the break, Ben McDonald joins us as well.

We will take a look at the Baltimore Orioles.

And as I mentioned, Kevin Kiermeyer,

who will be part of the MLB networks coverage.

This year, he will join us at 330.

So we're interesting hearing both you and Dan.

Talk about Brendan Little and Justin Flewhardt.

Yeah, if, if, if, if, if, if that happens.

Wow, I mean, they stood a little up tall or now he's throwing 98.

98 place.

No matter what any is in.

Certainly does.

Ben McDonald joins us next.

This is Blair and Barker.

And this is the SportsNet Radio Network and SportsNet.