Lindsay Clancy Verdict Watch_ Murder_ Manslaughter or Hung Jury.

0:00This is Belie, one network, every topic, everywhere. Welcome to Police Off the Cup, day five of the jury deliberating in the Lindsay Clancy case. I'm retired Sergeant Bill Ken from the NYPD. Today we're back on the verdict watch in the Lindsay Clancy case where the jury has spent nearly 30 hours over five days trying to reach an unanimous decision. As twice told the judge that it's deadlocked, Judge William Sullivan has already given the jurors a two-year Rodriguez instruction, essentially urging them to re-examine their physicians and continue deliberating without surrendering their honesty and their beliefs. The Lindsay Clancy jury returns for another day of deliberations after twice reporting that it's deadlocked and spending nearly 30 hours trying to reach the unanimous verdict.

1:03Is it murder in the first degree? Is it murder in the second degree? Is it manslaughter? Or is it not responsible because of a mental disease or defect? These are some of the choices that the jury has. But the first degree, second degree murder and manslaughter, that may be what is dividing the jury with a mistrial now of your possibility. Police off the cuff examines what could happen next, whether this jury can reach a verdict. That is one of the big questions here that this whole country has been watching this case. Can they reach a verdict? This is the quick reminder that the police off the cuff podcast is sponsored by Bandur on the Believe Network. So hold onto your hats, hold onto your loved ones, hold onto your thoughts, hold onto your

2:06prayers, hold onto your service, though. You're about to enter true crime from a police perspective. You're about to enter the off the cuff zone. The police off the cuff zone. There are some common sense. They were the ones who called 911 to get a call and now they're calling for change. Now on its face, this case is all about this woman, Lindsey Clancy, a mother of three, a registered nurse, and undoubtedly a person who had post-partum depression. And that in a large sense is her defense here, a mental disease or defect.

3:07And there's lots of evidence of that in this case. Lots of evidence even that the psychiatrist cited her mental disease, the defect and perhaps not just being misdiagnosed but being mistreated. The wrong drugs were given to her. So when the jury hears that and specifically I think this is on the screen, a picture of her attorney, Kevin Reddington, who's an outstanding jurist, but he came up against a prosecutor who seemed not in the same league but came rose to the occasion. And in my opinion has done an outstanding job in a methodical step-by-step approach in this case. I think Council, Kevin Reddington, the more experienced, perhaps the more dramatic he has

4:14raised some huge issues. But the biggest issue always comes back to this right here, the three children. You see the thumbnail up on the screen, the three children that were murdered, Korra, Thorcinet Callum and in this picture is that sort of Patrick. Horrific, right? And so many people, you know, well, when we talk about the court of public opinion, doesn't matter. The only thing that matters right now is the jury and how the jury sees this because the court of public opinion is just that. It's an opinion. And if you go across this country, there are probably millions of opinions on what should happen in this case. And we could all look at this thumbnail up on the screen of Korra, Thorcinet Callum and the father of Patrick and just say, it's black and white. She's guilty.

5:15She killed those three kids. So what is the big argument? What are we arguing about? How is the jury not coming to a decision? Those are some of the questions we have here. How is that possible that they're not reaching a decision? And when we speak about the mental disease or defect and specifically, that's the legal ease, the legal language for perhaps temporary insanity. Because she temporarily insane when she took the lives of her three children, Korra, Thorcinet and Callum. And one of the things, one of the tests against being temporarily insane is the thought process is was it premeditated? Did she plan that she have a chance to think about what she was doing?

6:18Did she have a chance perhaps to renunciate what she was doing during it? And that's where I think a lot of people, perhaps those on the jury, have a problem because she methodically won child at a time. She took down to the basement and strangled. That takes thoughts. When she committed the murder of the first one, she had to think about the second one and once the second one, the third one. And what was she thinking? What was her state of mind? Was it temporarily psychotic? The way some of the mental health professionals in this case have told us? Wasn't that? I don't know. And only right now the jury knows. And one of the things we can all rest our heads on and rest is that the jury is being extremely thoughtful in this case.

7:20They're not walking away from their responsibilities. They're taking them very, very, very seriously. And right now, they've come back two days in a row and they can't reach a verdict. And what is Judge William Sullivan saying? He's saying, go back. Keep deliberating. I know how hard this is. I know how hard you've been working. I know how stressful this is. But if this case goes to a home jury, 12 new jurors will be chosen. And what makes anyone think that potentially they could come to a different decision than these 12 jurors? So while these 12 jurors are in the box, are deliberating, are weighing all the evidence, are talking as they think about this.

8:25And the second is Eclancy. Was she psychotic? Or was she rational? These are some of the things that they would be weighing in this case. And there is some evidence that she was psychotic during the murders of her children. But there's also evidence that she free meditatedly thought about this. And that's where I think jurors and the jury will have problems coming to a decision. How did she, one at a time, like these children? But then the other evidence is that she told people about her state of mind. She told people that she felt like she was going to have a children. How come no one helped her? I think the jury may have a problem with that. Why did no one help Lindsey Flandse?

9:29Why did the medical profession fail her? These are some of the questions that we have in this case. And the medical profession no doubt failed Lindsey Flandse didn't they? They absolutely did. So what are they kind of, what is the jury? Going to come to will they come to a decision? And of the four choices there, will it be murder first degree? Will it be murder second degree? Will it be manslaughter? I thought when the judge gave manslaughter as a choice to the jury, I really thought that that was the out for the jury. From the chat, I'm going to go to some of you folks in the chat right now. Let me see, hang on, let me just get the thumbnail off the screen.

10:35And I'm going to go to some of the folks in the chat that has some great comments. Call up Palmer from the chat, praying they make the right decision. Please God, let justice be done for the right reasons. There's a lot of mental problems in this world. It's like they got rid of all the mental hospitals. Kim Malasden, one of our great moderators. And my mind, the children should come first. Why did Lindsey Flandse only hear the voices at the time of the attack? Good point. Kim, sigma quint coming out of deep depression can be accompanied with lightning force compulsion. Thank you for your comment at sigma quint. Sharon, at Sharon B, 6773 should never have been allowed to be alone with the kids at any time. Well, we know what happened Sharon and I think many people could disagree with you.

11:37A buying turn good to see you buying to buying to 3798 from the chat just remembered 40 years ago. The driven my aunt to E.R. twice because she was talking crazy and she killed my cousins. I couldn't support her locker up. We've been trying for years. And I loved and today. I guess I think that this touches the heart of many people as mental illness is something that. It's experienced in probably every family across this country. At certain levels, it's certain degrees. But I think people can all appreciate. The horror here, right? And though whatever good morning, such beautiful children, absolutely. When we look at the victims in this case. It's really quite tragic. Barbara, Barbara, ordering E1557. No such thing as temporary insanity. Well, it is a defense. We call it mental disease or defect psychosis.

12:40Whatever label you want to put it on at Barbara, but thank you for your comment. Heather, whatever terrible, unimaginable horror. Absolutely. That's what we're seeing here. And when we listen to the testimony. When we watch the court proceedings. When we watch all of the talking heads on television across the gamut of this country. Everyone has an opinion. But in our system, when you're charged, when you're accused, you get a jury of your peers, right? So 12 jurors. And in this case, nine women, three men. And I think having three, nine women on this jury is very helpful to Lindsey, Lindsey Clancy, right? Let's see, sigma quint during must relate to Massachusetts law.

13:41The prosecution did not convince me of evil planning, especially the mess in the cruelty does not match planning plans. And the suicide certainly had been close to, we're not. Sharon from the chat, 6773, why would her husband or family leave her alone with the kids if she said she wanted to home them? Sharon, good question, a very good question. It doesn't make much sense to any of us for that. In fact, what happened? Sue McCarthy, five, six, six, two. She answered a phone when Patrick called while killing those babies to keep them from coming back home. She didn't answer. Sue McCarthy, five, six, six, two. That is a real example of premeditation and planning and a thought process knowing what she was doing, recognize what she was doing, but still going through with it anyway, right? And that's pretty disturbing, right? Heather, whatever from the chat, I threw me to hear that she drank each night, but didn't

14:45tell doctors that she didn't want to lose her license. And we come to the second hand, but reputable sources, I chickened out of my most testimony. I'm sure there's a lot of things about the inside of this case, the fluency, the fluency that passively have been released, hasn't come out in the court. And we all would agree and had the way that I would just said in the chat that the jury has a very, very difficult case here. If this wasn't a difficult case, they would have already had come to a decision. And that's not what's occurred here. Truthseeker, 9355, she did tell Dr. Tops that she drank five times a week, Dr. Tops admitted she wasn't concerned about her drinking. Well, you know, is it really her drinking or is it that she was mixing alcohol with all these psychotropic drugs, these psychotic drugs? And I don't think you can do that.

15:47I think what you can't do it, but the results will be extremely bad. So what is going to happen today? Is there going to be a verdict today? The jury was told by the judge, Judge William Sullivan, to keep delivery, right? By this man, to keep delivery, you can come to some common ground, you can come to a decision. And at some point, if they still can't come to a decision, this judge will have to declare a hungier and a mistrial. And then there's going to be a million legal arguments as to what happens next in this case. That they start all over, be sure to retry. That's beyond my pay grade in regards to this.

16:49Well, this man here, the fence attorney Kevin Reddington, well, he put together a new defense and had to present this case all over again. And the list prosecutor, Jennifer Spray, will she have to re-prosecute this case? As she stands there, holds a bag of all the drugs that Lindsey Clancy was taking in regards to her mental health issues. So that's something to think of. But I think everyone is holding on right now to determine whether or not this case will become a jury. What will the jury come back with? And what is the big issue? I would think that of the lesser charge of manslaughter, which carries a penalty in

17:51the state of Massachusetts of 20 years, 20 years since. I felt that when the judge gave that charge as an option, that that would be what the jury would hang their hat on in regards to a lesser charge. It's not, of course, a life in prison without parole, right? It's not murder, too, which I could also be a life in prison. Because let's not forget those three murders here. The judge could issue upon a guilty verdict consecutive terms, consecutive life sentences, which means it could be 25 to light three times. So, let me see, I'm seeing some things in the chat that are somewhat out of sequence.

18:53Not the sigma quint. I'm not sure what you mean by this. Tinnitus, an auditory hallucinations light up the same brain area that can be both be interrupted by other sounds. I don't know what that's in regards to. Another whatever in regards to the alcohol, which she was apparently drinking five days a week, right? Bill, not a good mix of chemicals, alcohol is a chemical depressive. No doubt, no doubt, folks. Sigma quint, where did you hear that about alcohol? Agree that it's not smart when depressed, of course, not mixing alcohol, especially psychotropic drugs is not, it's not a good mix, it's not a good mix. It's not a good mix, you with any drugs for that matter. So when we think about this case and we think about the jury, will the jury reach a verdict today? And will that verdict be murder, murder one, murder two, manslaughter, not responsible

19:59for the medical disease or defect or unable to come to a decision, unable to come to a decision and hung jury? I can't predict that. I don't know what you folks in the chat believe, but this is such an emotional case across the whole country, across the whole town. Some people see it in black and white, and what do I mean by that? Well, they see it as, wait a minute, she killed three children. Why are we even discussing this? Why are we even discussing whether she's innocent or guilty? She killed three children. I don't see it exactly like that. I understand it, and I appreciate the mental disease or defect as a defense. But I also, I'm a little concerned with it. You folks have watched in New York City, a psychotic woman stabbed two people in Times Square,

21:07believe it was on Tuesday. Many of them Monday night, Monday or Tuesday night. And one of them was 32-year-old mother who was an executive at a bankshadow, a law degree from Fordham University, just walking on the street, just returned to work from maternity group. And this psychotic woman stabbed her for no reason whatsoever. Those are the type of cases, in this case, like, can we give this defense mental disease a defect? How about the person in this instance, the woman in Times Square, just walking around and finding her own business was stabbed in the stomach by a mentally ill. We call them EDPs when I was a police force, emotionally disturbed person. And as a result of this person stabbing her and one other who was in critical condition, the police had to shoot the EDP and she lost her life also.

22:13These are the questions. And although it's not at all similar in the backs and circumstances in regards to this case, it nonetheless asks a society what you can do with people like that. Should they be walking around on the street, putting others in danger? Jimmy Sharp, welcome, I'm glad, Jimmy Sharp showed up. Hey folks, did you all know who that hitting those flying heights really helps police officers get into the algorithm? If you don't mind, please try it. Jimmy, thank you so much. Folks, it's a quick reminder also if you, this is police officer comfort, if you're not subscribed, hit that subscribe button, make lots of comments and share with your friends and family. Also, if you want to contribute financially, we have a Patreon with four different levels and we have a YouTube channel membership with five different levels and you can become a member of the police off the cuff.

23:16YouTube family, we call them off the cuff. It's also folks, we have merchandise which I haven't really been plugging in that month. We have hats, we have mugs with the police off the cuff emblem and you can help us out. Also that contributes to the financing of this show and we really appreciate that. So folks, if you had to say today, will there be a decision or will there not be a decision? What would your feelings be? Do you think there's going to be a decision in this case? Put a one in the chat if you think there will be a decision and a two if you think it's going to be a hundred. It's just for my identification and a little poll among the off the cuff is here.

24:19I suspect most people are going to believe that in this case, it's going to be a hundred years. Nothing new has occurred that could make this this jury think that oh, the judge told us to keep deliberating and make a decision and if they were really hopelessly locked as appear that they were yesterday, then I don't see there being a decision in regards to this. I think out of all the folks in the chat that have just voted, I think only a couple have said that they think there will be a decision today. Most of you folks are believing this is going to end up as a humburi and I have to agree. Yeah, yeah, Kim, I meant is it one, they'll reach a decision to it's going to be a humburi

25:23and I think that's the way that this case is moving forward. It appears that even all the talking heads across, it seems like what am I talking about a talking head? A little bit of disdain, not really. This experts, all of them, but that's what the media always does. They get these talking heads on and they mean that necessarily that plugged into this case, that they're experts, right? So Team 363, one believes there's going to be a decision today. Well, I hope you're right. And you know, not going to mean anything of most of us here feel that it's going to wind being a humburi. I always have to mention, you know, where we get lost in all of these theories and everything that this case is 100% about those three children you see up on the screen right now.

26:28Those are the victims, right? Korra, Dawson and Callum and all the legalese and all of the legal maneuvers and all the secretarial maneuvers is about those these three young children that you see up on the screen. And Judge Sullivan, he can implore the jury to keep working, make a decision, but if they don't feel that they can make a decision, they don't feel that the evidence is there for a conviction of any of those charges, then they're going to do what they were sworn into do. They're going to make an honest decision and they're going to vote with based on the evidence. You know, it's going to say sometimes you say vote with your heart, but that's not what this is about.

27:29This is about applying the evidence to this case and then coming to a decision and all of the work on this case is Lindsey Quincy criminally responsible. That's when it all comes down to. Is she criminally responsible in this case? And we'll see. We'll find out hopefully today if and when the jury can come back. No verdict. Keep deliberating. And that's what the judge said. Keep deliberating. They still might not be able to come away with a verdict. Right? This is the quick reminder that the police of the cuff podcast is sponsored by Fando on the belief network and folks as I said earlier, I never plug it, but we do have merchandise,

28:34police officers, the cuff merchandise can wear a police officer, the cop hat or drink from a police officer, the cuff mug. I want to thank everyone for tuning in this morning. We'll all be waiting to see what the verdict is. I'm Bill Cannon from police officer. Have a great day everyone. God bless. If you liked the show, please take a moment to rate, review and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening.