Living in the Rubble: The Check-In with Jared Yates Sexton and Danielle Moodie

The show where a couple of friends hang out and they're lunch hour and I don't know what we talk about our feelings we talk about our feelings

Anderson and fascism. I'm very excited. I'm here with my good friend Daniel. How are you? It's wonderful to see you. It's wonderful to see you. I am how am I just always a loaded

question. Sure. I am good because I spent the last couple of days with my parents, my family. It was my mom's birthday last

week and so I went to Long Island to hang out for a couple of days and I realized like my mom sends me these like joking memes about how we've you know just she's kind of

unlearning the ways in which we've been indoctrinated and one of them is like how America kind of sold the idea of the nuclear family that young

person you know go in a college moving out right away starting their life and so on and so forth as opposed and like really decimating the idea of the

extended family and collective living and collective care. So my mom is you know she's aging. I'm aging and like and we're talking about this and this idea that

you know I wish that I did live closer. I mean I'm in Brooklyn. My parents are in Long Island. You think well that's not that far. It's actually an hour and a

half away and when you know and on the train and in traffic you know could be longer. But it's this idea that we were kind of bamboozled into this into this concept of what

success looks like it looks like being alone and doing everything on your own it looks like living on your own and assuming and taking on all of

these bills alone as opposed to being a part of this collective and then as you get yourself on your feet and what have you like thinking about expanding from

there and so how we've kind of been set up in that way. So we were just talking about that a lot over you know over over the weekend and what it would have

looked like if it was my parents had said to my sister and I just go off to college but come back you know work save your money like you know then you can

cook you know together maybe buy something and it's a it's a different way of like wealth building and and somebody just put in the chat

interdependency that this idea of the nuclear family and pulling yourself up from your bootstraps to me with another lie of capitalism to kind of get us all in debt struggling on islands of our own when we

could have had more collective care which a lot of still countries and ethnicities and traditions do but we in America like look down at that.

Oh for sure and and you know it's weird because so what we're getting into now is like deeper politics like the ship it's underneath and again Danielle I just want to state my absolute gratefulness that we're not like who you got in the midterms who do you

have in the midterms I don't give a shit and it's really getting down into like the basis of something because we're in a crumbling

empire we're we're watching it die the side effects of all of the greed and hoarding of resources and power it's becoming obvious with every passing day that idea of like rugged individualism and the nuclear family it's an

artifact of a period of time in which America was a large continent that we were conquering like we were like hey you know like you're going to get raised up you're

going to do this and then you're going to move a little bit further west and you're going to homestead and probably possibly die and also probably have nine to ten kids probably four of them will die you know we'll figure it out.

I think we all played organ trail at some point you know and so flashback because so much of what we're talking about is it's people acting on the

whims of capitalism yeah what capitalism wants from us it wanted us to move across the country and basically destroy resources hoard things and conquer the

quote-unquote wild frontier away from people who lived a more interdependent socialistic humanist like right right by the way the one things that was wild for me writing them in that

I had always been told that western civilization won because we had better weapons but no it wasn't that it was because the greed and the lying and the

savagery was actually a weapon against a bunch of people who took care of one another yeah and had more interdependence and acted more in terms of

honor and more in terms of caring about each other and empathy and it just so happened that we were the saddest we were the ones

who were happy to murder and kill and rape and pillage totally funny going back and watching those movies now the savages we were the

savages and so now what are we talking about Danielle the the weird things that pop up and one of my favorite things to pay

attention to are trends right it's it's it's the trends of modern politics and people you know it's like well

every now and then you'll see an article it's like Gen Z's loving avocado toast that's like fuck you you don't

know what the fuck you're talking about but then there's other things Daniel where all of a sudden it's like multiple families are

living together right people are starting to push back on things like monogamy they're starting to live with their parents

longer and these are little trends that if you don't connect the dots you don't understand where they come from

right here's like why are people doing this or why are people living with their families for longer all of

this those are side effects of capitalism reaching this stage right which is where people can't afford a

home so maybe they're going to buy a home with multiple people also you can't afford health care so you're

going to rely more on your family or maybe if you have multiple partners they can help take care of

things or they can hoard you know they can bring the resources together in order to do it I think the

really fascinating thing and what you're talking about and it makes me so happy to hear that your

family was talking about this without meaning to you guys were having a conversation about how we're

going to survive the shocks that are coming correct and they're coming and without like back in the

I always talked about like with a hurricane I lived in the South for 10 years you'd hear a hurricane

was coming you'd get all of your outside stuff put together you'd get some water you'd take out right

we are preparing for a storm that hasn't been forecasted but deep in our bones we all know is

coming and I and I think that this is the thing where paying attention to your intuition paying

attention to your to your gut and actually vocalizing what you are going through as opposed to again

this silent stoicism that has also been a part of corporate culture it also has been a part

of capitalism right just like grin and bear it right and the conversations that I'm having with

my family now it isn't just like with my parents but with my extended family my aunts and cousins

and so forth is what does it look like knowing that the American Empire is crumbling my mom is an

immigrant right to this country she's a naturalized citizen and we no longer feel safe

she's like where can we go right together where we can do essentially someplace else

what we should have been doing in the United States which is you know creating essentially in

some ways a homestead right where we're able to live together take care of one another have

gardens have this have that do you know what I'm saying and create this sense of safety together

right and I think it's really interesting when you say that you're following the trends because I'm

following the same things all of it comes back to the fact that young people uh generation Z is

going to be the first and I would honestly I would argue that some in Gen X some millennials

have not been able to hit the financial heights that their parents did

in terms of being able to buy homes and cars and have the material trappings and uh of success

you're seeing that fewer women are having children right which it also corresponds to the

manosphere and and to and to the male loneliness problem and all of these things that we talk about

that are going on why are people having less kids why are they staying home longer because

capitalism has broken it no longer works for them it's no longer keep your head down and work hard

and then eventually you too will be able to feast on the fruits of your labor no it's like your

labor is going so that Mark Zuckerberg and Peter Teal and Elon Musk can have banquets upon

banquets upon banquets of spoiled luxurious food so that Pete Hegseth can order as many

lobsters and pianos and violins as possible right for the Pentagon so it is it's it's it's we've

reached this kind of breaking point where the rules the lie is the jig is up and and we're realizing

that what we've been sold about rusted you know rustic individualism and and this idea of you

know I I do it on my own was all just a lie to break apart families to bleed people out and get

as much as possible from them right why get one mortgage when you can get five why get you know

one you know one rent when you can get ten and then look down upon those that stay together

building more wealth building more care from one another and you know and so look I don't say

that as if everyone's family is polyanna-ish and people don't come from abuse and leave for reasons

so I'm not I'm not negating the realities of why some leave but I'm trying to to break down the

story and the narratives around that that was about that was tethered to like economic success

and by the way I is speaking of these trends and things we're preparing for Daniel have you

noticed it like in the midst of all of this because we we could be talking about like who's winning

the war by the way it's a wrong you know what what is happening here and and it's the that

America is flailing in the American order is dying we could talk about all of that but we're talking

about humans and we're talking about how these things feel right and we have this thing in our

heads where it's like oh we're different right we're such a privileged species like we're so far

outside of nature and things attacking us America tells us that we're all we're all loneholds Daniel

we're all just warriors out here to show you to do this have you noticed in the middle of all this

all of these little things that are coming together one in the midst of all of this absolute

barbarism every interaction with another person that you care about holds more import and meaning

right it's like if you if you interact with someone and you'd brought up like yeah not everybody

can rely on their families many families are abusive we're all trying to create communities

and by the way the loneliness of modern American life I would say people feel it more than

ever yeah and the reason is because not only were we atomized by capitalism for the record the

reason that happened it wasn't accidental they wanted to keep us from creating the solidarity

necessary to challenge capitalism they don't want people at work talking to each other and

trusting each other they don't want people talking to each other out in the community so that

they can hold economic leverage over us now all of a sudden we're talking to one another and we're

like hey I've been really lonely for a really long time right I've been I've been focusing on

the wrong things I need to be able to build these connections in these bonds because the storm

that's coming we need to be ready for it we need to understand that we will take care of one

one another and and you might notice for the the the people who are like listening or watching think

about like the last time you talk to your neighbor and your neighbor asked you to do something for

them my guess is you told them I'll do that without hesitation and I want you to think back in the

past where maybe you wouldn't have we're now in this together and we've always been in right right

that's the thing the illusion was that we weren't and one of the things we talked about I want to say it

was like maybe it was a month ago maybe a month and a half ago we were talking about you know

how we felt like we were able to like ride out the waves like we were going to be okay the next wave

of layoffs it wasn't going to happen to us the next time you know the our jobs are fun our jobs are

fucked our jobs are fucked I hope everybody understands that and hopefully there's a freedom in that

because it's all fucked like it's not the the people who are in charge are not going to spare you

like what what's your job going to be professional bootlicker professional ask your sir there's

only so many of those jobs in Madaglaceous and Marco Rubio has most of them Marco has 98% and

Madaglaceous has the other two percent locked down and Ezra climbs like banging at the door

what are you going to do like how are you going to make a living the only way that it's going to

happen and we all know it instinctually we haven't been able to say it we all know it instinctually

that the storm is coming it's not going to be good and it's not going to be easy the great

thing about it is once the storm clears you can build something better and we all know it at this

point and that is the that's the lovely thing about it and also it was maybe the second episode

we did together we talked about giving up on the fear of death you're going to die everyone's

going to die everything is going to end at some point you have to be okay with that and you have

to see the possibility of it and what we're talking about right now is the old dying and hopefully

the new being born which is the struggle of where we are the old doesn't want to die and it's in

its death rattle and it's more dangerous than ever and it has to die in order for the new to be born

I mean it's so it's like if you are a person of deep faith what you just said Jared rings true

for people if you are a person of deep spirit like you understand that in order for something to

be birthed right there is a great deal of pain that has to happen there is a clearing that has to

happen for you to plant seeds that allow for new growth and I think that what we are experiencing

right now is the the the kind of pain and and deep suffering that comes from this kind of

clearing right that and I think that for Americans in particular why is it so jarring well because

our entire society up until this point has been created and curated in such a way to allow for

our comfort above all else and so now for the first time I would say probably in the modern

era post world war uh two we're feeling a level of discomfort that our grandparents and great

grandparents felt and understood because they grew up inside of the depression right there their

existence is what spawned the need for the institutions that have now been called and cleared out

because people were dying in the street and people were going hungry uh and and and people weren't

being taken care of and this is where they formed right these institutions and the idea of how

government can step in when those people are unable to do for themselves right when there is mass

depression and so it's just really interesting how technology has has exacerbated the problem

but also clarified the problem for us right like loneliness doesn't come on by itself it comes from

little actions that we take that isolate us further and further from one another it comes from

watching people at a dinner table everyone is on their phones posting about the fact that they are

at dinner but no one's actually experiencing the connection of being at dinner and for folks that

think like that's just young people know it is not I have watched people that are elderly like sitting

at the table forgetting what the art of conversation and connection is recognizing that all of that the

disconnection is the way that capitalism has created new tools for itself if you buy these things if

you watch this streaming if you just vegetate with me are you still listening are you still

watching as Netflix like I'll keep feeding the emptiness right like eventually you'll get

satiated except you don't right so it's just I think that what is underneath all of this particularly

as we're watching the genocide that is not only happening in Gaza but is underway in Cuba

the realization that America not only isn't the good guys now but has never been the good guys

they just had good stories and great PR it's like being taking a soda can and just shaking it

right and then we're all opening the can at once and it's a big old fucking mess

it's a big old fucking mess yep it's it's the equivalent of you know when a when a ship like the

Titanic goes under the water it drags people under with the the the weight that it leaves

and you don't have something as big and as powerful I mean America was so big and so powerful

not because there was something inherently good about us it was because our characteristics

particularly in the 20th 20th century fit so well with capitalism which was denial and delusion

and the willingness to destroy other people to put ourselves forward we were the perfect vessel

for it to jump from the British Empire to us the British Empire built the world in the United

States of America was in the perfect condition to finalize that project and so here we are and

and you brought up Cuba Danielle you can't sit around and scroll on your phone when the entire

island that you live on doesn't have electricity you can't live in delusion when you and your family

are starving that doesn't work and and and and Iran like people who are being killed every single day

innocent people you don't have a lot of time to sit around in delusion be like I'm sure it'll be fine

you huddle with the people that you care about and you take care of the people that you care about

as much as humanly possible I want to give a recommendation I don't know if you've seen it

there is something it's a new show it's on HBO it's called neighbors and it each episode follows a

pair of neighbors who hate each other and and and they they get so angry and radicalized because

they share space with somebody that they disagree with and it's so fascinating and perfect for

this moment because Daniel what does it show it shows that the American problem is that everybody

wants to live in a fucking fantasy and the problem with living in a fantasy is when you come up to

another person who's living in a fantasy and you have to share space America tells us that we can

all live in fantasies without bothering one another where's that gets you it gets you to a state of

civil war and collapse and then all of a sudden it becomes who's willing to hurt the other person

in order to keep their fantasy alive and destroy the other person's fantasy it worked

quote-unquote for a little while back whenever the continent was expanding because if you live next

to someone and you didn't like them you went to the next fucking state and you chopped down some trees

there was free real estate well free there were a lot of people that died in the destroyed

we have reached the point where the American dream it's not getting ahead and living a better life

it's the promise that you can live in a fantasy and guess what like Iran and and like Cuba and

every other place that the United States is destroyed now it's like last night I was watching the

the world baseball classic in the finals Venezuela beat America I know you know why they beat him it

wasn't because they had more talent we went to their fucking country and kidnapped their president

and turned them into a puppet state it meant more to them those people are living and I'm not

equating this with a baseball game but you people need to understand the people we're fighting

it's real for them yep the Iranians it's real for them for us it's a fantasy our fucking

shit for brains president can lie about it every single day he doesn't know what's going on

Pete Hegseth thinks he's still on Fox News they're all in fantasies and if you are going to continue

to live in the America of the past you better be willing to kill people because the fantasy is running

out you cannot live in this bubble forever and once it pops the only thing that's real Danielle

is human connection and living a life worth living everything else is pretend and everything

else is artificial and fragile and it will crumble and be destroyed we're coming to the point where

the check is going to come do and that bubble is going to pop and then you have to make choices

about who you are and what your life is you know it's so fascinating I think this collective

awakening that is happening this like this this you know deep consciousness it's like an alarm

clock that was slowly going off right it was like a part of its volume and then it was turned

up a little bit with each year over the last 10 years and now it's blaring and I think that

what we can escape is the the hurt that we've been lied to the hurt that the waving of our flag

came at the expense of people's lives and their livelihood and their sovereignty

for us to be able to do that there is a video going around right now that I saw and it was of a

white man who fought in desert storm and he said I realized he's like I wanted to be proud

of the mission that we were on and he's like and it didn't take me long to realize that we were

the terrorists that we were the terror that we said that we were fighting and I think that what

is so naked and obvious now that you actually can't look away from because of technology because

of the ways that we have a front seat to the destruction and the genocide that is happening

across every place that this regime touches is that you can't move away from the idea that

everything that you have halt held close to chest as a proud American has come at the expense

of someone and something else and that that that takes a deep kind of reckoning to understand

that truth and then what do I do with it because it sure as hell isn't enough to complain about it

right it sure as hell isn't enough to continue to vote for people that create caveats around

their morality and their values and say well in order for us to be safe others have to die

that's essentially what we have been saying for eons our safety comes at the risk of demolishing

other people I mean this is Israel's whole reason day on track right like their whole entire

military security strategy is based on a deep seated fear of every fucking one around them

and the only way that I can be safe is if every single person that is not Jewish right that doesn't

subscribe to the same level of supremacy that I do is no longer and let's call that what it is

which is the colonial paranoia that's why yeah it's it's like when you start to really unpack and

this is what I say to people like really unpack don't say that you didn't know and I don't know

and what have you you have all of the resources at your fingertips start studying up on just go to

ban books list of civil rights era and indigenous warriors and feminist practitioners and

et cetera and read right like it's it's literally like at your fingertips so it's not

enough anymore for people to say like oh my god I had no idea I'm like I'm reading

right now books that were written in the 1950s that are talking about decolonization

yeah that are talking about like the colonists mentality and ideology and all we've done is

mask it and shift it based on the technology that we have and our ability to like lie

over the course of years like oh colonization is done is it I mean ask the people in Puerto Rico

and guinea and like other places that have no sovereignty and authority is it over

ask the ask the African nations that are paying out the ass to France and the United States

and and and the UK is it over or did it just morph into something else that we accepted

like I just I don't know it is and it and it comes back to the destruction of family and unit

to put in place this machine that tells you you must produce and like at all it like I don't want

to make it so simple I mean people have studied for years and get doctors and all of these things

but like that's how I see it 100 percent and that's the question at the heart of it I

you know what's interesting Daniel I so my original background was in literature

and you go back into like the 1940s into the 1950s which is the golden era America wants to return to

right which is a complete aberration you can't go back there there was a very specific set of

things that took place by the way ask poor people brown people and women whether or not that was

the golden era of America right and you look at all this art and what was the underlying thing it was

wow everything looked good but it felt awful everyone feels a lack of meaning that moved

throughout time meanwhile you go back into the 1990s which I try and tell people constantly what a

horror era that was like it was the idea like America's great it's never going to fall apart

what's underneath the surface it's everyone being like is this all there is right is this all

that there absolutely is we've we've reached the quote-unquote mountaintop the whole point is that

capitalism is anti-human it cannot fill a void it it it works on a negative number inside of us

we think that we have something that we have to make up for that were wretched and broken and the

only way to make it better is external things to take as much as we can and to show ourselves

improve ourselves who are you proving yourself to the boss who's going to fire you and lay you

off the moment that they need to like the what's the best case scenario you get to retirement they

hand you a watch and then you die two years later is that is that is that winning is winning being

Donald Trump a fucking failure embarrassment of a fake billionaire who who's like pathetic like is

that is that the winning are you supposed to be Elon Musk who is like the the most pathetic human

being that is ever-resisting and Mr. is who buys a platform in order to rot people's brains and push

a white supremacist right-wing neo-fascist thing and then post AI women that you ogle at because

nobody loves you is that the answer and then all of a sudden you're like oh what's this

idea of being rich in spirit it's having people you can trust and care about and who love you

and see you and accept you and all of a sudden something becomes clearer Danielle and I want

to I want to make something abundantly clear here everyone says to me okay what should we do

and I say we have to have mass action we have to bring this entire machine to its needs

and that means ruining the fucking economy and making the corporatist and capitalist classes

understand that we have the power and changing the political paradigm well what are we supposed to

do here we'll lose our jobs and we'll lose our financial stability you're going to anyway

we read the writing on the wall this economy is fake it's all fake there's not a single national

internationally respected economist you read what they say Danielle and you just said like

you can do the research on your own go actually read the articles that are written for these people

they'll say we don't know what's going on why because it's not actual economics it's a Ponzi

scheme yep and the people who are wealthy know that it's going to fall apart and they're going

to be there to gobble up what's left of it on the cheat and they know that it's going to hurt us

and they're going to be able to do things like get rid of minimum wage create an underclass that

they will control they want to recreate the beginning of industrialism in which by the way here's

the fun thing Danielle why were we able to get out from underneath that because we were forced to

live with each other and we were forced to talk to one another and eventually we said enough

is enough and we thought our way out it's a cycle for the record we see where this thing's going

it's going to collapse it's going to fall apart so what do you have to lose except for to gain

everything and for the record what you said what I always found writing books is I would go the

library and the answers I looked for were in books that had never been opened they were published

by academics and here's the difference between academics and pop culture writers is academics tell

you what's actually going on pop culture writers will give you a story that feels good that will give

you like a fantasy to live in go I'm sorry I know this is going to make people upset go read marks

yeah go read linen they knew this was coming they all the problem is they didn't see how far it

was going to go and now we're living in that next step so go back actually understand where these

things are and be like man you know what the check is coming to yeah I'm worried about economic

ruin it's coming no matter what you know it's funny I'm speaking of reading old text so

when I'm reading right now because I read multiple books at one time I'm reading uh France

Fennon France Fennon yep read it wretched earth do you have like you're lying to you like I know

I know I know I love you myself it I have a case of friends around here so you okay oh yeah I love them

yeah so I'm like here is me I people think oh Danielle like nose and I'm just like I don't know I don't

know everything so I look to people and I look to like folks that have written and I found him and

I was like wait a minute I'm oh I'm reading Jared and I said oh god damn 1953 wait what can I

can I share something that I'm so glad you brought up you're I mean you're the academic this is

for not when I tell people I'm creating my own syllabus this is what I'm talking about here's the

amazing thing about about Fennon and I'm gonna say something that's actually fucking like it some

people will get this and some people won't every American needs to read decolonization literature

we've been told not to like oh that's DEI why would I pay attention to that here's the secret

everybody white supremacy is hidden colonization yeah we have all been colonized yeah it just so

happens that white supremacy tells you that you haven't that you're on the team that's colonizing

and sometimes you're on the team that's being colonized when they need numbers yep but guess what

when the numbers aren't needed you're all colonized so the whole point is you read Fennon read

all these people because the point isn't that like oh class politics can't be racial race is a

construct yeah and everything is fucking made up and we're being colonized it's just hidden behind

a veneer of privilege that's it I mean it's it's so deep it's so and I and I think that that

sometimes it's like when you're reading right and you're just like oh shit and then you want to

close the book because you're just like oh good god right like it's so deep and you realize like

oh why wasn't I taught this why what why wasn't this I I'm a I'm a political science major

explain to me why that wasn't required reading yeah right like all of the things and again it kind

of it goes to Audrey Lord who said you know the master's tools will not dismantle the master's house

no one's gonna give you your the oppressor is not gonna give you the tools to your liberation right

like and that's the thing is that we have to get out of this mindset that like well why wasn't

I taught this why is your oppressor going to teach you how to break the chains right like you

have been like our minds our spirits have been colonized yes to accept white supremacy and patriarchy

as a given right as a given like air as opposed to a virus that actually can be treated so it's

it I mean it's it's just and how do you treat that through education right and understanding the

ways that you have been forced to assimilate into a system that is absolutely alien the way that

you've been told that others are savage but you watch savagery take place at the hands of those

that tell you that they are the all knowing they are the all being they are the gods chosen one

and it is extraordinary and it's like this is why in fascist regimes what do they get rid of first

the books the academics what do they shut down first the art right the critical thinking

because that is the biggest tool against fascism colonization imperialism like that's it

and and I'll give you a couple of examples because what we're talking about here is so essential

to to what we need to zero in on so like okay so for instance let's say that you're you're an

economist you're you're like an aspirational economist right you want to know how the economy

works you're in college you're getting educated by experts okay so you are a believer in capitalism

correct like you you you are not only a believer in capitalism your job is to understand capitalism

so if you're learning about capitalism and you want to be a person who explains capitalism

Danielle call me fucking crazy I would want to read the critique of capitalism

you know why I think so because you want to understand capitalism and wouldn't you want to make it

better but guess what if you major in this in most schools in the country you're not reading marks

you're not reading lidden you're not reading capitalist critique so what happens Danielle

you're actually put into a bubble where you all of a sudden it's no longer a science

it's a religion and if you actually look at all these people and so amazing Danielle in 2008

when everything came down all the neoliberals were like I don't know where this came from

what are you talking about you didn't know where this came from this has happened in one time

after another after another and thank god by the way what you brought up earlier

you know how I knew it was gonna happen but fucking grandparents told me it was going to happen

because they lived through it so all of a sudden you have to have memory versus expertise and then

what happened when I went read the criticism of capitalism my grant you think my grandma read marks

you think my grandma picked up a book by Vladimir Lenin no are you kidding me but guess what got

reflected common sense intuition and experience by someone who was an expert so by the time I read

it I was like oh yeah I know what this is this is a tradition that was hidden under the dust

yeah and it's kept from everybody and the reasons kept from everybody is this Danielle

it's hard because if you know the facts you have to do something yep and so instead of having like

the shit that our politicians are about to dealing they're not dealing with anything they're out

there putting on a TV show and the TV show sucks and no one's watching it anymore that's the whole

and so as that's happening everyone's all of a sudden like oh wait this was a lie why is it lie

what was kept from me and then all of a sudden you start reading what was kept from you and it

becomes very very clear the reason why it's kept from you and you're exactly right there's a reason

why they burn books there's a reason why they imprison people there's a reason that they do all of

this and it's this it's that they start losing control and at they lose control they become more

dangerous and I want to say one more thing on that that note they're killing people over there

right now do not forget that they were killing people yep yep yes what happens as that gets worse

so will this so will this we're in a moment to take a breath and to get ready we talk about the

ebb in the float that's where we are right now you know and it's again point a part of the

distraction right this let us let me wag the dog and put us into this extended war that I have no

idea how to get out of and now I am just at a loss at the fact that the people that I've been bullying

for 13 plus months now don't want to come to my aid and don't see me as a friend worth saving right

which is where the United States finds itself begging on a street corner with its hand out

for help to open or moose which by the way is open and just say an open to you um I think that what

is incredibly important is understanding that it isn't as if to say that one system is perfect

and another is not it's to say that every system can be abused based on who is in power

but the more aware that you are about why certain systems and structures have been put in place

and who they benefit the better you are to then think when the rubble is done when the dust settles

what is it that we want to create in its stead right like what is it that we want to imagine is

possible because everything Jared from capitalism to communism it's all been invented it was

a bunch of people got into a room and created an idea about a system of governance

yeah about a system of finance right so you're telling me that like that's the only way

it isn't it's about having enough awareness to take what works leave what doesn't

and create actual systems that center human need that center the marginalized because we know what

happens when you center the wealthy right the fat cats what has happened we've been waiting for 40

years for the trickle down we've been living in a fucking drought you know and now it's like you

don't even have to put on the rules that it will trickle down because they're saying AI gonna

replace you anyway so I don't need to care about your health care your 401k don't bitch to me

about what you need in the break room because like the robot isn't going to and I'm putting my

investment and my money into that so that I can fire you in 18 to 24 months can I ask you a question

I I meant to ask you this what's your favorite piece of literature or piece of art that depicts a better

future did the picks a better yeah yeah not weird did the picks a better future yeah yeah

yeah not weird yeah yeah what does that mean it means that our imagination for it has been

putterly destroyed and pummeled down it hardly anything damn yeah yeah yeah

yeah yeah star track is the closest thing to it that's the closest thing to it but guess what

there's nothing this really nothing we don't really have a road map or even an imagination of what

it could be and one of the reasons is because all of the structures of capitalism destroyed every single

one of them in fact let's look at AI where people use an AI for Daniel is to create larger and larger

battles people fighting one another and killing each other that's it if you see anything from AI

that isn't all you know I keep hearing about how it's going to discover a cure for cancer I keep

hearing about how it's going to solve poverty but you know I I haven't seen any movement in that

direction because that's not where the money is right and I you know I'm looking at the comments

and people are saying star track they're agreeing with you and they're saying Wakanda and I agree

with that and I think that for me that's why I've always I for the last several years have been

captivated by Afro futurism and African futurism because one you know all of it though comes from a

place of dystopia all of it recognizes what is to do what is destroyed and then what we move towards

but I think that what's interesting in those few in those future type settings is that

no one gave us a blueprint for this moment yep we started I remember months and months ago now

this show what's saying no one ever talked about what it means to live inside the rubble

of a falling empire we have all we we learned about the fall of Rome and the fall of Greeks

and the fall of the Ottoman Empire and this and that and the other thing but we actually never

studied and were taught what was happening inside of those societies as these great shifts were

happening and it's like that's what we are living in so we don't have a blueprint we have

some idea with some futurism that to some extent like didn't actually create futures for Black

people enter Afro futurism and African futurism and then you have these other ideas but what we are

experiencing now isn't unique it's unique in the fact that we're discussing it to leave behind

some type of I would hope template because this won't be the last destruction no right so it's like

but this will I think the first time that it'll truly be recorded

and and by the way we we had better learn from it I mean and a couple things before we talk about

that part you know something like Wakanda Wakanda happened because a media right hit a certain

place it didn't come out of some sort of like decision to do this or do that like even that has

the caveat someone even said it and it's exactly right Star Trek isn't even on earth it's out in

right right there's no idea of something being better here like we we made things a little bit

better and then we got out of here and then we went out and did other things and on that like we

are living in the compounded destruction of history which is the America falling right now is a

combination of Rome falling the British Empire falling and the third right falling

it's all of it mixed together at once and as that's happening you you look at it and you see it

and you know it and and people then you'll never notice how much fascination white Americans have

with Nazi Germany like how like they love watching the the the pictures of like the rallies and all

the banners and swastikas and all that shit people don't pay that much attention to what happened

after they don't pay attention to what happened in the ruins of Berlin after everything fell apart

or de-naughtification and by the way that's why like it didn't really get rid of all the Nazis

we brought them in we brought them in for an embrace and we said help us defeat the Russians

and guess what we sided with all the fascists we didn't learn our lesson we did not look towards

the future we are absolute prisoners to the past because what is America about we talk about this

a lot it's the complete and utter rejection of learning from history the privilege of living in

a fantasy that does not take into consideration fact or experience or truth that's what it has been

from the very very beginning and so we're going to fall and we're in the process of falling and we

better yet busy imagining what comes next let me ask you something yeah what do you think that

like what does the end in your imagination look like um that's a great question because you know

I grew up evangelical so you know we're talking about imagination my mission the base level is

already it's actually very fascinating because because I grew up in evangelicalism I was told how

it would end and even though I escaped it it's still apocalyptic shit right which is why we create

the apocalypse in the real world I think it's it's much more of economics economic cultural

and political collapse I think we're much closer to regime collapse right now than a lot of people

are really able to let themselves admit I really do and I think I think the worm has turned

economically and also in terms of what the American empire and what it creates so it could be quick

and it could be groaning like we we we might live within it but that's the other beautiful thing

is like that gives us the possibility to create as long as they don't destroy everything you know

what I mean which is the the question yeah yeah I've just been thinking about you know as everybody

does I've been thinking about it and and and kind of and again it goes back to the beginning of

what does it mean to prepare for what you know is is coming in your bones but you can't name and

you can't necessarily draw the picture of it but you know that it's coming and it's closer than

it's ever been so what does it look like to create community care what does it look like to kind

of begin to assign roles to yourself about how you navigate through this and and and it's just

it's really interesting because I agree with you I do think that we are closer to the collapse of

this regime and the collapse of just America in general and that there are a handful of people

those in Congress and the executive branch and on the Supreme Court that are really working

over time to try and make sure that we all don't pull the curtain back yeah that there are still

there like there are still some that believe the wizard is you know that we are the wizard we're

the good ones we're making everything lovely you know beat back the ones that are trying to pull

the curtain and that's where we are it's like they are they're like trying desperately to beat us

back because what happens when everyone when the collective consciousness is recognize as oh

it's just us and they're not great they're not powerful they're not all knowing

they're actually just a bunch of scared inept soulless cruel people

yoke and to scale it up from something that we've talked about Danielle we we talk about the example

of an abusive household we started this out talking about being with family that you're safe with

versus leaving family that you're unsafe with and what do we keep saying it's like the home the

fascist is the abuse of father and the democrats or the liberals or the neoliberals whatever

you want to call them they're the enabling partner and guess what happens if we pull back the

curtain they're left to themselves yeah and certain ruin the only thing that keeps that going

is us our participation in it right and disgustingness and the exploitiveness I mean my god like

I said this a couple of days ago the ask keeps getting worse what do we have to do at this point

like for a while it was like okay people around the world they'll be put in slavery murdered fine

it's happening around the world I don't know them and they're brown and at least I get this

right and then eventually you reach the point and you say oh now I have to look the other way

these pedophiles I have to like look the other way oh oh by the way they're over here murdering

people they can't even be bothered to tell you why they're murdering people oh now I have to be

like oh yeah killing over 100 plus school girls and lying about it like that the ask keeps getting

more and more and the whole answer is we have to go to the door we have to go to the door before

they kill us to keep us from getting to the door yeah I just I mean that's it that's it folks like

you know we never have homework on this show but I'm telling you you pick some revolutionary

writers and thinkers and pick up these books pick up these books and read like that finale

right now huh you could do a lot worse than picking up wretched of the earth right yeah wretched of

the earth what is it the other one white mass black faces like I mean that's that's what I'm

reading right now and I'm just I wish I knew French so that I couldn't read it like out you

like read it in the language you wrote it in but you know pick up linen pick up linen read about

imperialism like you had a dead derights I mean really like it's it's all it's all there yeah

and I you know it's funny because the other day you know I was like I play music in my home all

the time and I'm playing you know Bob Marley right my family's Jamaican that's just like a given

and and you listen to the revolutionary music that Bob Marley was making about colonization about

oppression about overturning uh governments and you realize how dangerous right he was at the time

that roots reggae music was becoming this global phenomenon and at the same time the United States

was heavily invested in a particular party inside of Jamaica and it's just like folks you just

start to realize how all of these things are connected and like all of these struggles have been

intertwined and the more that you learn right the peeling back of this onion the more the the layers

right that and the intersection that happens it's it's it's truly wild it's truly wild

at a hundred percent as and that's the secret it really comes down to it is like all these things

that like disconnect this they're not real they're not real they're not real there's no such thing as

the United States no such thing as a raw and no such things Cuba like there's just not they're we're

all people who are caught in between some of the most disgusting and murderous people imaginable

that's it yeah big secret of the whole thing it's all made up for the benefit of a few

it's all made up for the benefits for you oh man thank you so much for hanging out

this was a good it's it's like hey did it folks we never know where it's gonna go

when we turn on the camera we don't know we talk about what we're thinking about

you're even using a different device today we didn't use it a different device we didn't even know

that this was gonna work right we had no idea and everyone's here my friend thank you so much

every week everybody be safe hopefully we'll we'll all have a good week we'll come back and

do it again we'll do it again all right later everybody