MAFS' Rachel Gilmore

It's a lot is recorded on Gadigal land.

We power respects to the traditional custodians of this land

and to elders past and present.

We also would love to extend our respect to all Aboriginal

and Torres Strait Islander people listening today

and remind you all that Sovereign T was never seated

and it always was and always will be Aboriginal land.

I've been waiting my whole life for this moment.

I know that the final thing now is the right time.

I'm ready.

That's three cats. Can't wait to talk shit.

All right, everyone.

I'm really, really excited for this chat

kind of just for personal selfish reasons.

But I've got the gorgeous angel Rachel with me on the podcast.

Yay!

Hey, babe.

Hey, babe.

Oh my god, you've been my fave this season.

I know if you've heard me say that a few times,

but I fucking love you.

You've been...

I just think you've been such a beautiful light and joy

and I've been very defensive of you and people have been...

Not that anything really bad has happened.

But when people have been going,

oh, Rachel goes, oh, I go, no, you're all going on.

Fuck off.

So I'm really quite defensive of you

and I really think you're wonderful.

Thanks for coming to talk to me.

No, thank you so much.

It's so funny because you obviously have a cult listening group

and I've been out in Adelaide.

I had girls pull me up and be like,

Abby Chatfield loves you and my girl, I love her.

This is amazing.

The love is mutual, babe.

I love it, I love it, I love it.

Oh my God, well, I'm so keen to talk to you

because I also feel like you're the kind of person

that I can get a, maybe an unbiased third party POV

on some stuff that, because you aren't really involved in drama

except for thingabang, which we'll get to in a moment,

which we're kind of over talking about it,

but we have an interesting angle to talk about it in regards to.

But I wanted to get you on

because I just think you're so lovely,

but you've been kind of like the narrator sometimes.

Well, on the show, they'll show you a voxies

and I laugh because you're always a little bit drunk,

which is so fine.

But it's obviously the end of a night.

And you're like, yeah, you just feel like a cute face

when you go, yeah, that face when you go,

yeah, I can just see that obviously,

they're not, yeah, yeah, G is going off.

Sounds like it's so fucking amazing.

So let's start from the start.

I want to know why you applied for maps.

What your dating life was like before

because it sounds like hell, babe.

The situation, ship, nightmare.

What the fuck?

Absolute nightmare.

So dating for me has been exhausting to say the very least.

So I went through the toxic situation ship,

which was seven years on and off.

We definitely dated other people in between.

It was just, it was horrible.

And you would have heard on the couch

me say, like the way it came to that close was,

he told me one night that, oh, you know, I love you.

But then the next day when he woke up

because he may have been drunk, he may have been high.

Was like, yeah, I don't remember.

And I was like, get out of my car.

Like, get out of my car.

I've had a similar thing, but it was a 10 year.

It wasn't the situation.

I guess we were like, we were officially together at times

with similar things on off, on off, on off.

And when he told me he loved me for the first time,

like year, year one or year two of this 10 year long,

hellhole, yeah, similar thing.

He was off his head.

And the next morning, he didn't just pretend he didn't know.

He said, I know what I said last night,

but can we just forget about it?

I'm trying to do what?

But baby, I say, I say doing it.

Oh, yeah, we say, we do it.

Unfortunately, we want to fix these men.

Yeah, and it's ever worth it.

It's never, I'm sorry.

I'm not looking for my next project,

but it's just put it that way.

Like, I've done the work on myself.

So after the situation shift,

that's what I really focused on.

I was like, right, I just formed this life in Melbourne.

So I moved here on my own, no friends.

And I just surrounded myself with these really amazing people

who would challenge me, educate me,

and like, help me learn so much more.

So I'm from a country town, essentially.

So are you?

We've had it.

I'm from WagaWaga.

Lovely hell yeah, WagaWaga.

So I find some of the views and things of Waga

to be limiting, if you're well.

Yes, yes, yes.

So when I moved, I ran on myself with these amazing people.

I learned more.

And then I just grew and learned so much more about myself.

So then dating, it became exhausting

because I'm dating these men who think they can speak to me

a certain way or treat me a certain way.

And then if I spoke up, it was like,

I feel like you're attacking me.

And like, I'm not attacking you.

Like, I'm just telling you how I feel.

And so I would go maybe two dates, cut it.

And then I'd be off dating for like the year

and I'll just go live my life.

And then it got to the point where

maybe a couple of wines in.

She does like a cheeky glass of red.

And I was sitting on the couch,

watching Rian Jeff, and I went,

why not?

Why can't that be me?

Fuck it, what have I got to lose?

We all know now.

Not much, but, you know, I think you've come out of this.

I mean, it's interesting because this season,

the women have been presented to all.

Like, usually it's the men, but the women have kind of had

a bit of an interesting journey.

And actually, yeah, I spoke to Beck about it.

And she's like, you know, I think it's a bit of both.

I think it's a bit of like the casting and a bit of the editing.

You've come out really well.

So I think that's fine.

But what do you think from someone who was there

and who was now watching the edit?

Is it true to what actually happened?

Or do you feel like there's some sort of omission of stuff

that's kind of made the women end up looking a little bit worse?

Because they've had a pretty strong run of every episode.

A woman's doing something.

I'm going to speak freely and honestly about this

in this mind rub a few people the wrong way.

I, when we came into this and instantly, you know,

come into that second dinner party and find out

that there's a WhatsApp group chat within the women, right?

I was not in it.

I was not part of the cool club.

And so instantly it's like, you're giving this theme of like,

I want to be top dog.

It was just this undercurrent of competitiveness

between the women to one up each other.

That's how I felt.

And it's exhausting because I'm very much like,

Gumbaya, let's get a lot of things.

You're not going to like everyone.

And that's fine.

You're going to meet personalities that are, you know,

your cup of tea.

But you don't need to drive that person down.

You don't need to get that nasty.

And that's where I always came from.

And so I do think what you're seeing is a true depiction

of how it was actually happening.

Because I know a lot of people like,

oh, but like producer said this to Raul.

Yeah, no, you're right.

Producers probably would have said to you,

oh, this has been said, how do you feel about that?

But how you react, respond, or handle yourself in that moment

is your choice.

It's your choice.

Because I definitely had situations where I think production may

be a little bit disappointed that I didn't pop off.

Because I'm just like, it's just not who I am.

It's not happening.

Sorry.

And then yeah, so that's just how I feel about that.

There is definitely things left out.

And that's why some things are confusing right now.

Like Alissa right now, you know?

So we're recording this before the last few episodes of aired.

So we're kind of in the last thing we saw was Alissa and David

splitting up.

Can you elaborate on what you're, you know, what you mean in regards to that,

saying that Alissa and David thing is confusing?

Yeah, so I get it.

A lot of context has been left out.

So as we know, we have not seen much of Alissa and David on our screens.

Like it was going on because, you know, the bullying thing

did happen and it was very real fully.

It's in like, it kind of formed a bond with me and Alissa

because we're besties now.

And I just think what's happened is it's not shown

why she's pulled away so much.

There is, there is a big story there.

It is not my story to tell.

It is definitely Alissa's story to tell.

But that's what made her pull away completely in the end

when she found out because from her mindset was

we have gone weeks here and you've not spoken up

and used these couch sessions for what they should be useful.

But I also do recognize that when she's speaking,

David would go to speak and then she'd be like,

yeah, but in talk over the top being Alissa's friend,

I've experienced it myself and I handle it very differently.

I just go back at her and be like,

Alissa, listen, it's fine, like stop.

But David didn't have that in him

and because I'm thinking he potentially thought

if he did, it would end up in a fight instead of Alissa going,

oh, I need to listen right now.

Which is how she would have reacted, right?

That we are saying in your experience.

That's my experience with her, right?

Like whenever she goes on about something

and I'll repeat the same thing over and over

and she's not listening, I'll just be like,

Alissa, you gotta stop right now

and actually listen to what I'm saying.

And she does.

She does because it's just, yeah, she's just caught up sometimes.

Yeah.

And I think, I was saying on the podcast the other day

when I did recaps it, there are certain people

that if you're dating someone like David,

you kind of need to make extra space

and extra accommodations without them asking.

But I also understand the frustration

of someone not speaking about their issues.

But I just think sometimes also like,

Alissa calling him a weak man and all those things.

I think it's like, I'm like, it's kind of like,

in terms of the theory of it, theoretically,

I go cool, I can see both sides.

But the way that she was speaking to David

from what we saw what we heard,

I feel like was about a control.

Yeah, I think I had so interesting

because I see it so differently.

Yeah.

What I see is Alissa quite frustrated

because obviously it's a lot of off-camera chat,

things are happening.

And so yes, I think there might be an element of control

but also like, it's just frustration.

She's just to a point where she's like, I'm frustrated.

We're not having the conversations we need to be having.

And I don't know.

She doesn't know any other way to go about it, right?

So I think this comes back down to her learnings

and what she needs to like grow from out of this experience,

which is, you know, you need to give that little bit of space

and let other people speak at times.

Yeah. Well, hopefully, I'm going to try and talk to her as well.

So hopefully she has learnt from this experience.

Anyway, enough about other people, back to you.

Yay.

So you and Steve had a really quiet few first weeks.

She had that little issue on your honeymoon

but it was kind of nothing.

And, you know, like I said, you were kind of like,

you know, the positive narrators going,

this is crook, we're good, whatever.

And a nice slow incline.

Yeah.

But obviously your sex life was a big question

up to finger bang gate.

And for me, I'm going, I was watching up to finger bang gate,

which we will get to in a moment.

But I want to ask about your, no, I'm so weird going,

your usual sexual habits.

I would like it because I'm watching this going,

three months is a long time to not

fuck someone that you're sleeping in the same bed.

Especially when I'm feeling that spark

and I'm feeling that we're ever tasked towards him,

you know, you know, Fanny Flutter, if you will.

Yeah.

So there is a whole task, like not aired this season.

It is the convention's task where we actually write letters to each other.

I didn't know that.

Yeah, which would have actually really helped

everyone's understanding around the intimacy

insecurities that Steve and has.

And so I just really went from a place of life.

I am going to be patient.

I will always show him kindness and make sure he's needs a man.

I want Steven to be comfortable in this relationship

because I never wanted to feel pressured

to take that step with me when he's not ready.

Because yeah, a lot of restraint on my behalf, absolutely.

But at the same time, I really cared for this man.

You know, I loved this man.

And I just wanted to make sure that everything was good for him.

Because, you know, I could tell he cared for me.

I could tell he had those feelings for me as well.

So I was like, when the time is right, it will happen.

And did it ever happen?

Once, after five hours.

One time.

One time.

Yeah, after five hours.

And I wasn't sure if it was because it was like

filming's done.

And we had this beautiful romantic day.

And yeah, it felt, I've got to be honest.

In those apartments,

it does feel a little bit sterile to get intimate,

especially when you're intimacy under a microscope, right?

So it's you're in an experiment.

It's reality TV and I don't know.

There is a kind of awkwardness to it,

whereas when you're in a home,

you can set the lighting a certain way.

You can make it a little bit more romantic.

And all of that, whereas I don't know, I think because

there was that spotlight on it.

It made him shy away from it even more.

And so I just had to be patient and remind myself,

like, there's more in this relationship

than the physicality of it.

There is intimacy in other ways.

Was a struggle for me.

But yeah, apparently your girls got a lot of willpower.

Babe, really, really well done.

Like, oh, sorry, and you don't have to answer this,

but I on the podcast was like, is she masturbating in the shower?

I'm going, what the, like, are we secretly like,

I'm going, what the fuck?

No, not when I'm in the shower,

but when he was in the shower, absolutely.

You go, you go, you go, you go, you go.

Yeah, just gotta get the supper out.

Just knock on it out.

And then you find it, keep going.

You find it, keep going.

I'm good, you know, just like leave my fantasy

while he's in the shower and then I'm good.

That's beautiful.

I love that.

We were talking before of Mike about the double standards

that you feel like were present because of your,

I guess your kindness and your wanting,

your attempt to make him comfortable enough to progress

that intimacy in the language of the show that they use.

You know, I go, how do we even say this without saying,

you know, that you guys are going to have sex?

But yeah, but because I think it's such a point that you made

that you trying to make him comfortable and putting effort in,

people are taking that as desperation.

Can you explain what you've seen online

and then what your reactions are to it?

Yeah, the commentary around like,

oh, how desperate must you be to be like waiting for this?

Oh my gosh, she's just not that into you.

Like, it's been however long and he won't even sleep with you.

Like, blah, blah.

However, if this was a man and he was with a woman who was like,

you know what, I'm a really slow burn.

I don't want to be physically intimate for, you know,

months, blah, blah.

I'm not comfortable doing it on a show, whatever.

And he gave that grace, king.

Oh my God, respectful king.

And it's such a double standard where I'm labeled as desperate,

whereas a man would be labeled as a hero for doing this.

And so sure as in making a woman comfortable.

So why am I not being given any grace

or any kind of support around like,

that's a really great thing you did for Stephen.

Because Stephen isn't as sexually driven as myself.

So we just work with each other's needs.

It's the assumption that men automatically

have higher libidos than women.

And that if he's not all over you,

then he mustn't be into you.

And the relationship must be worth nothing.

But women are assumed to be pious and virginal.

So when you are trying to initiate intimacy

and you want also the desperate,

I haven't seen the desperate comment to be honest.

I haven't seen that.

And I didn't even think about it.

Because all you were doing was being like,

and now I want you to kiss me.

Like that's not you going, like that was your version.

Intimacy week challenge, that was a lot.

Yeah, oh my gosh.

But that wasn't even like desperate.

That was more, I felt like it was more you going,

all right, I'm going to put myself out there.

I don't think it was like, I'm desperate for this.

And it's interesting that because the assumption is that women

are all pious and all virgins.

And men must be inherently sexually, aggressively sexual beings.

That then when the tables are turned,

it's almost like, oh my god, she's crazy.

She's out of control.

Like he must be disgusted by her.

It always goes to the extremes

because it's counteracting patriarchal narratives

that exist about sexual relationships,

in straight relationships.

Absolutely.

Well, let's look at what was happening

with another couple at that time, right?

So everyone was like,

oh, but if this was a man saying to a woman,

kiss me and she didn't want to kiss him,

oh, like it would be forcing her,

hang on a minute, right across the hall,

we had Grayson and Julia.

And Grayson was not happy with the intimacy task

that Julia had given because it wasn't enough.

I wanted more, I wanted more.

So hang on a minute.

Yeah, that is a man saying,

what your version of intimacy isn't enough.

So make it make sense.

Like you're literally saying,

if a man did this, it's not okay.

There was.

It was happening across the hall.

Yes, and I actually call it out.

I said, I think it's interesting

that his version of intimacy,

I think Julia's version of intimacy was fine.

I have those cards.

I use, we did them on the podcast.

I love them.

Adam and I are going away for our anniversary next week

and I'm going, I'm taking the cards.

It's a bit of fun, but it's beautiful.

I'm only going to have a great route after that.

So I, but that's such a good point.

See, I didn't realize that you were getting the backlash

for the desperation or whatever.

Because the Grayson thing, that was about sexuality

and everyone was like, Paul Grayson.

Paul Grayson is going through so much,

whereas you feel like you had a different reaction.

Yeah.

So then because I was like, Kiss Me and He didn't want to,

it's like, oh, he's not that into you.

You're desperate, blah, blah, blah.

And I'm like, oh, this was a man doing this

and Steven didn't want to do it.

I'll like the girl didn't want to do it.

They wouldn't be getting crucified like Steven is.

Like Steven's not getting crucified.

No, Steven's not getting crucified all season.

So with, in regards to intimacy,

let's continue this conversation

about the thingabang moment.

So obviously, I think we've discussed this to death

on the podcast, on the show, on fucking TikTok.

Everyone's discussed it to death.

It's pretty fucking clear.

Again, people were saying you were dragging it out.

My opinion is you weren't dragging it out.

It was getting dragged out regarding the apology.

You wanted a certain type of apology.

You weren't getting it.

I think you have a right to stand firm

on your boundaries and requests of what you want.

That's not dragging it out.

That's it not being resolved by Beck.

Do you have anything to say on that

or do you want to just keep talking about something else?

I mean, when it comes to that,

the whole dragging out, I think I think what people don't understand

is it was like fuel was continuously

getting thrown on that file.

Like waking up and there was the merch comments

and everything like that.

It wasn't just like a one and done comment.

It actually got dragged on

by extra comments being made by Beck.

Unfortunately, having these conversations.

So, yeah, dragging out,

sure, whatever.

Like, you weren't there.

Give it a bone.

These are your worries.

And how are you on Beck now?

Are you fully resolved?

We are the best sister friends.

We call each other like three full times a day.

We and we've been so close ever since.

Like, we made up, obviously, very quickly

because I felt really sorry for them.

Like, I would never want to feel like I'd have to leave,

you know, a place to feel safe and, you know, all of that.

So, we came close.

We're even closer now outside of the experiment.

And when that was reary,

we just, we've really talked about it.

And we were very much like,

right, if something comes up

that you want to talk about more,

our friendship is more important.

Let's talk it out.

And we did.

And it was fantastic.

And it's actually made our friendship stronger.

Great.

Do you see change in Beck

from the start of the experiment to now?

Because it sounds like a huge change

in how she's handled.

Conflict.

I, it is a huge change.

And I think that also comes down

to the people she's surrounding herself with.

So, speaking with someone like myself,

who will really pull her up and be like,

you don't need to behave like that in those situations

and having those conversations with her.

And yeah, I think Beck has really learned

a lot about herself and like her,

like, you know, response style

and like how she digs her heels in.

Like, we all saw it.

And yeah, she's, she's growing as a human.

And like, I really hope people do give her a chance

because I, I do love this scale very, very much.

And she deserves her redemption.

Okay.

Amazing. That's lovely.

That's so lovely.

So, back to the finger bang of it all.

So, I also wanted to ask you on that after show,

it was showing that Steven actually

was talking about the finger bang of it all.

And I know that you don't want to talk shit about Steven.

And I totally understand.

But how did that make you feel

after all of that drama,

all of that chaos and then all the months after it?

And you're going, oh, wonderful.

So you're the one that kind of encouraged it.

Yeah. So, Steven knows where I stand on this.

So I've got no issues talking about it.

We're seeing that on stand.

I was disgusted.

Like, just absolutely disgusted.

Watching it back, I was very much like, wait, what?

Because I had Gia and Juliet come to me the next day

and tell me that these things have been said.

And I was like, Steven would never say that.

He would never say that.

And then when we went for that little walk,

you know, little...

Yeah.

I actually told him what was said.

And he never owned it.

So he comes from a place of like, I forget saying it.

I should never have said it.

But I forget saying it.

There's not even on the couch there wasn't like,

I'm really sorry for Rachel for what I said.

It was like, I feel disgusted.

I'm shaking.

I'm so angry at my behaviour.

But there wasn't this like,

accountability for what you said.

And, you know, if in that moment,

my provider and protector had been like,

Beck, no, we're not going to talk about this like that.

Because Rachel's my partner and I respect her.

Beck would never have stood up and said that joke.

Because if you actually watch it back, Steven laughed.

Yeah.

And was kind of like joking around with her,

having been to her about it.

Which is Steven's prerogative.

But considering how much it upset you and derailed the entire retreat,

you would hope that he would say to you,

listen, I did say, I did say to Beck.

So this is partially on me as well.

Like, you know, it's not entirely Beck's fault.

And that probably would have stopped you guys from having that huge argument.

Absolutely.

Absolutely.

I would have just taken Beck as I said and been like,

hey, I've just got the, you know,

the extra information from Steven.

And, you know, I'm really so like,

let's just squash this now.

I didn't appreciate it if you're like,

Mike, like, just let's not talk about my end of this that way.

You want to talk about your own that way?

Go for gold.

Not my.

Yeah.

And just for the first reason,

but it wasn't, he never owned it.

And even on stand,

I was like, well, you gave her the green light to talk it about it that way.

He doesn't see that.

And he's like, well, no, just because I talked about it,

doesn't mean she can get up and say what she said.

I'm like, you're not taking accountability again.

You'll blame shifting on to Beck and letting Beck take the fall.

But unfortunately with this one,

I'm just like, is this the hill I'm willing to die on?

No, I'm done.

I've let it go.

I have my feelings about it.

And Steven messaged me that night.

I was like, I'm really, really sorry.

And I'm said, look, I've got to be honest.

If he ever made my father, he's going to bury you.

He doesn't get it.

He doesn't get it.

He's like, oh, why?

What about Beck?

And I'm like, Beck wasn't my partner, babe.

You were here.

Yeah.

And also, it sounded like this could be a pattern

of like, of accountability.

Is that right?

Yeah.

What other Sipswater?

Yeah.

Maybe open the bottle of red.

Yeah, Jesus.

What other instances were there?

Because the thing is, I think on the show,

it's really hard to see the whole story

with all the relationships.

Even just time-wise, we get six minutes of couple time,

the entire episode.

Then we've got the dinner, we've got the drum between the people

and we've got the flashbacks and we've got,

you know, it's like there's 17 minutes of each episode

is like a next episode tomorrow on.

So you only really get 40 minutes of content

and they've got to pack eight couples in, 10 couples in.

So we only really saw your storyline was intimacy,

lovely people, and then, you know,

not really a few little moments of drama

and bumps on the road, but in terms of your relations

between each other, like your relationship

and the way that you interact with each other,

we didn't really see much.

So was it a common thing for you to not take accountability

or is this kind of like a one-off?

It was a common thing, but it didn't happen often,

if that makes sense.

There were never a few things that came up often

that I would, like, he would need to be like,

all right, I just need to be taking accountability for this.

We actually had a really great relationship, you know,

northern beaches, love them.

We would always scoot off there, like,

because he lived, he lives in Sydney,

so we'd get in these car and we'd go to northern beaches

and just hang out at the beach.

Like, it was the better, like, you'll notice

as a show goes on, I get more tanned

because I'm going to the beach.

It's holiday season.

Oh, love you.

So funny.

I'm like, I'm going to the beach, I'm going to the beach.

And so we honestly did have, like, some great moments.

But then, you know, there are those moments

where I reflect back, like, they're not on camera.

They are just between Steve and I in our apartment

where there is no accountability taken

and I've just got to swallow it and get over it.

Because if I don't, we're not going to basically go through it

because they're not going to progress our relationship

because it's kind of like talking to a brick wall.

And Steve and when he gets on a one-track opinion of things,

that's it.

That's all he's understanding.

So, I guess an example I can give you

just because we have just been talking about,

thinking, hey, that's what I'm talking about.

Oh my god, oh my god.

I have, let's see.

But no, you know, like, men now feel very entitled

to speak to me that way.

So I could be doing something as simple as

coming home from work on the train platform

and I will pass men and be like,

another thing, a bang.

And it's gross, right?

And instead of him being like, yeah,

I've played into that.

I'm so sorry, whatever.

He will relate and be like,

oh, yeah, but people come up to me and say that too.

And, you know, like, I don't want that to be my image.

And I'm like, yeah, but you're the hero.

I'm the one that's shamed.

And it's also just different as a woman having someone come up to

and say, finger bang, a stranger on the street,

men at the train station laughing and saying,

finger bang.

Yep.

Compared to a man getting that and you are 100% correct.

He's the hero.

People are saying it to him.

Oh, yeah, like silly.

It's purely silly.

Whereas to you,

you've also made it clear on the show that this is something

that you don't want to be spoken about in this way,

that you don't want to be brought up.

So it's actually a violation of your boundaries

and pushing it to see how you'll react.

It's actually harassment when it comes to what you're experiencing.

A hundred percent harassment.

And this is why, like, I am like, the best response for me is my response.

Go fight in America.

Insult yourself in the mirror babe.

Like, you're going to get more joy.

I just keep walking because, you know,

it says more about you that you think that you can speak to me that way.

And I'm sorry I'm not here to give you a verbal lesson

on why what you're saying to me is not okay.

But that's kind of the thing with Steven, you know,

like it will always be the comparison.

It's never, yeah, I can understand what you're going through.

And obviously what I said on like, you know,

at retreat would not have helped that.

There's not, there's not that accountability

because I don't, I don't know if he has that ability

to do that just yet.

And like, even with our relationship falling apart

and everything like that, he still can't look back

and take accountability for things that happened,

that led up to it.

So, yeah.

Well, let's go on to final vows now.

And then we can talk about the relationship ending

because I, let's end, it's go through a happy period.

And then let's, you know, go back to that ear up and down.

But so, Lady up to final vows.

Did you have any doubts?

Because I often think like, obviously, again,

what we're shown is so it's just small snippets.

And like with Beck and Danny, for example,

you look at it and you go, well, it's obvious

what's going to happen there.

But then Beck was telling me, you know,

no, there was a whole different reality being told to me.

I didn't hear any of these things

until we were on the couch, right?

So, I wonder, did you, were you sure

that you were both going to say, yes,

or were you shitting yourself a little bit?

Okay, Steven and I could not help ourselves

during our time.

Where we knew.

Like, where you were?

Where you were just like, we left like,

I was, I was hook, line and sinker babe.

Like, I was ready to go to final vows.

I was in, I was choosing him.

I knew that he was choosing me.

Like, we're not supposed to speak

between deliberation and our final vows.

We're like, on the phone to each other every day,

checking me and trying to help ourselves.

Like, because you know, it's like, give your partner

space to make a decision.

I'm like, we've made ours.

We're burning our lives together.

We're talking children.

We're talking about where we want to move to.

Like, the lifestyle we want to have.

Like, I was in, I was like, we got,

like, I'm going to find a vows to queue our hours.

Like, I went and got my dress, got my hand.

I was like, I'm rocking up, like,

bombshell, I told him.

I was like, I'm telling you absolute firebades.

And it was, it was, I was so ready to see him

and have this beautiful moment we came

and just like, right off into the sunset.

Like, in my mind, I'm even changing my own timeline

and being like, if we come out of this

and we remain good, even just for like a couple of months,

I'll go, I'll go, I'll make that commitment.

So I was already in my mind, ready to be like,

I will sacrifice yet again to make this work.

Because I'm in love with this man

and I want to be with him because we do work

on many levels.

We do work.

Maybe not some of the fundamental levels in the end.

Yeah.

In terms of like enjoying each other

and having fun together and that intimacy

and like, just the ease.

Like, I know that I could move back in with Steven

tomorrow into that apartment.

He would understand me, I would understand him

and the space would just be calm and peaceful

and we would just have fun.

So that's what I fell in love with potential.

The potential of what we could be.

So when would you say we're in love with Steven?

Because I don't think you have said it on the show.

You never said it.

I said it.

So that's a lot.

I did say it.

Wait for the final episode.

It's not going to be fun watch,

but wait for the final episode.

The final commitment movie night

is where I, we had already broken up,

but I feel like I got like another spectacular dumping

on national television and I was like, I love you.

Oh my god, wait, what do you mean?

So obviously we had broken up before reunion.

We went into union together.

It was very, it was very confusing.

We're still wearing wedding rings.

Like, oh, I had my wedding ring on.

He brought his, he put his back on.

Like it was just like we were very too confused individuals

because like we still very much care for each other, you know?

And I'm expressing to him, you know,

I wanted to tell you that I loved you in Melbourne,

but the trip felt so like awkward

and like there was an agenda there that like,

there was very little romance

or anything you just did not feel,

I did not feel you engaged with my life at all.

Took him to the MCJ.

Now anyone knows as a client was a product,

it's probably my favourite place in Melbourne.

That's what I was going to say.

Holy land for you, really?

Right, holy guile baves.

Yeah.

His response when I showed him, cool.

And I was so involved in the fishing, you were kissing fish.

I was like so into the fishing and like kissing the fish,

baiting my own hook.

Like we actually got to stay on after home stays.

We had a whole weekend.

He took me like offshore fishing,

we saw whales, we saw dolphins, like we had,

like this is I mean, we had some really beautiful special moments.

So for him to come down to Melbourne

and maybe like this is something so exciting.

It's been so much a part of my narrative

and one of my hobbies and passions.

And I got cool.

I literally had to stop myself from crying

and be like, oh, okay, let's go.

Like that's just, let's just leave.

Like I wanted to walk around it with him

and all this, but I was like, no, go.

So it was a very, it is a very confusing time

for my head and my heart for sure.

But the final commitments are in many

where we show the movie.

The experts really put it to Steven

because they were like what happened

and it was very much about Steven.

We're back to Steve's life.

It was all about work, business

and all of these things.

And so he got very stuck into that.

So then had very little time to prioritize me

or our relationship.

And as the beautiful male shilling

pointed out, all right, female, we love you so much, my God.

Long distance can work because her husband

and male were in Melbourne and Adelaide.

And they made long distance work

before ultimately, I think the movie was made

from her to Adelaide and they came back to Melbourne.

So she's like, it can work.

And so Steven was very reluctant to the plans that I wanted

and, you know, talking about going back to his life

and how, you know, maybe he just doesn't have time

for this and everything.

And the question was put to him,

why did you even come here?

And I was kind of like, yeah, why have you come?

Yeah.

If you had no intention of making a relationship work

outside of this and didn't have the space

in your life to make it work,

why did you come?

And his response was, well, I thought I could.

And it's a dag is in the heart, babe.

Like, yeah, like you, you've spent three months thinking

and then like having final hours and thinking,

he's chosen me and we're going to, we're going to move forward

and we're going to do this to find out

you were still just an option.

Oh my God.

And the option of put it work.

So then John really then got quite direct with him.

Yeah.

And he was asked repeatedly, do you want to be with her?

Do you want to be with this woman?

It's like you've got to stop stringing her along.

Do you want to be with her?

And his response was always yes, but yes, but.

And I'm cowering on this couch

because I'm like, I wanted a man that was proud to be with me

that would sit there and be like, yes, I want to be with her.

I know we're not together right now,

but I'm going to make it work.

I'm going to show you Rachel.

I got yes, but yes, but.

And then the final thing, the nail and the coffin was,

well, let's just put a bullet in it then.

No.

Oh my God.

Yeah.

Oh my God, I'm so sorry.

Sorry.

No, I'm sorry.

That's so hard.

Oh my God.

Yeah, I'm sorry.

I'm like getting emotional.

As an agent, I'm like, I don't know how I'm going to watch that

but because it's like, it's like the same, the me,

it's like the same narrative or again, like, I'm not worth

that priority.

I'm not worth that commitment and it was really hard

because I truly thought we're steven and that understanding

and being so supportive of his, oh my God,

I've cried and I'm a mascara is going to sting my eye.

Oh my God, sorry.

Oh my God.

Jesus.

Yes, she is.

You know, I just thought like, because I had such an understanding

and support for his insecurities and his quirks

and all these things, he'd be like, you know,

I found a woman here who really loves me for me.

And it just wasn't.

Like, I wasn't, he didn't, well, he didn't love me for me

because he didn't love me.

And so, and the final, like, kind of hit to me was

when we're sitting there and we're told to, like,

is there anything that you want to say to each other?

He very much made it all about him.

You've made me feel like I came into this feeling

that I had a butt heart.

You've made me feel like I'm lovable.

And my response to that was, yeah,

because I'm in love with you.

Like, you know,

and then, and what did he say to that?

Hey, he just started mullet, like, nothing.

And then I then had to speak and say to him,

how I felt about him.

And I was like, I think you are an amazing,

all about him.

I think you're an amazing human.

And, you know, I've really enjoyed our journey together

and like, you know, I wouldn't have done it with anyone else

and I love you.

And that was it.

And then I went and sat on the crouch

and just got to give me a hug and a ball of Mars out.

Oh my God.

I'm so sorry, Ray.

Yes.

Yeah.

So what between, because we've kind of skipped forward,

but what happened between how do we go from what we've seen

on the show and then final vows being so certain of you being

like, yeah, we couldn't resist talking to each other.

It feels like you guys went from strength to strength to strength.

And then what it's three weeks between final vows and reunion.

So how in three weeks, what was happening

besides the trip to the MCG where he was not very responsive?

How did we get there?

How did we get there?

It happened.

I feel like nearly immediately.

So really, on the last commitment ceremony,

I expressed my concern that Stephen was going to go back

to his normal life and that I would become a burden.

It's just going to be easier to let me go,

which I very feel much.

I feel like that's what's come to fruition, essentially.

So we had conversations around like, well,

how, I was like, it's really important

that you come down to Melbourne and see me.

And he's like, I need to get work.

I need to get work.

I need to make money.

I need to do that.

He's very, got to make money.

He's very that mindset.

Like, I've got to have money.

I've got to do that.

And I was like, that's fine.

And I kind of said to him, well, how long could you maybe go

without work before you need a job?

He's like, I absolutely need a job after reunion.

I was like, great.

Why don't we just use this time to just like

grow our relationship outside of the experiment?

Yeah.

And he was like, oh, okay, yeah.

The next day, I've got a job.

I was like, okay, cool.

And then it just...

So that's priority over working on this relationship

off the show.

Yeah.

We then ended into discussion.

So he had been speaking to other grooms

and it was very much like, oh, you know,

we've got to think about next year

and the opportunities that could come from this,

you know, like I've really got to start thinking about

like what could happen or I could live here or I could live here.

I, I, I, I.

And so I flagged that with him and I said,

oh, do you think about a relationship

when you're thinking about these things?

And it was, well, of course I do Rachel.

Steven does not call me Rachel.

I asked him from our wedding to call me Rachel

to this very day.

He will only ever call me Rachel

and the tone he uses rattles me nearly every time.

Stella heard it once.

We were at dinner and she looked at me and was like,

oh my God, I went, yeah, I wasn't lying.

What, it's like you're in trouble?

Yeah.

It feels like I'm in trouble, like I go Rachel.

I'm like, oh, okay.

Yeah.

And like I don't, he doesn't realize he's saying it.

I brought it up once and he had this for like,

oh, I can't do anything right.

I'm like, yeah, but it's not what it's about, but sure.

No.

And if someone's asking you to do something

as simple as not calling them a certain name

or have a preferred name, when you're in love.

Yeah, this is it with them.

You should call them that.

I'm not saying you have to call me cutie patootie,

cutie pie, baby.

No.

I'm just saying.

Are they nice?

I'm like, I love it.

I love it.

Yeah.

But, you know, just call me Rachel.

You know, like I call you Steve-O,

because you prefer being called Steve or Steve-O.

Yeah, so after that,

after how soon will it talk about what he can,

what opportunities he can get start?

Literally the week after final battle.

So like, we, how ours was on a Friday,

I would say the following Monday,

those conversations started.

So I brought up to him, I was like,

I've noticed that your language has shifted

when talking about a relationship.

It's very eye, eye, eye, eye, not we.

And I was like, I'm concerned that you're not considering

any, it's like, well, I don't know how to have these conversations.

And then I, saying things like, well, you know,

I don't even know if we're going to be together

in the future, Rachel.

And I was like, whoa, I've just wait.

What?

And it's a week after, sorry.

It's a week after final battle.

And the week after final battle.

So I don't respond in the moment,

because I'm like, okay, you need to take a step back here,

because if I respond immediately and bring that up,

Stephen instantly feels attacked,

like he can't say anything right, all these things.

So I have to be mindful of how I approach this.

So we're in a conversation, maybe a day or two later.

And I brought it up and I said,

look, the other day you said this

and it was really hurtful to hear you say that.

And instantly it's just like, oh,

you know, I never know the right thing to say.

And that's when I made what's my call a little bit

and was like, you got to stop saying that.

Like, that's a cop out.

You can't just speak to people and say these horrible things

and just be like, oh, you know, I can't say the right thing.

Oh, you know, I've got foot and mouth.

We are taught from very little.

If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it.

You can't say in your mind when you thought of that,

that's a nice thing to say to your partner.

That's just said, I want to be with you,

I'm considering moving through you.

I'm looking at packing up my life for you.

And you love, that's good.

I'm in love with you've made a life in Melbourne.

You've already done the move from Wagawa and you've gone,

I love Melbourne.

I've got friends here.

I've got a job here.

I've got a life here.

I've got a routine here and I'm going to pack it all up for you.

And you won't even say he's unsure a week after final vows

that you'll even be together.

Yeah.

What do you think that is?

Um, this is something where I can't wrap my head around.

And I don't, and I don't know if it's the own narrative

that I'm telling myself, right?

Because we all can spend our own narratives.

I think he realized very quickly that he did not want to be

with me.

And that I was actually not going to fit into his life.

I think that's what he realized immediately

when he got out.

I think he thought I've wanted too much.

And so instead of having that conversation with me,

it felt like it became an onslaught of push away,

push away, push away, and then she'll do it.

If I push her enough, if I push her further away,

and he may not have realized what he was doing,

because I'd flagged it with him.

I'm like, you are pushing me away at seams

to like break up with me.

Because before he, it was always a reason

he couldn't come to Melbourne.

There was work here at his mom's birthday,

which I totally get, like that's what it was now.

But then like, it was always, I can't do this.

So it's too expensive, I can't come this time.

I can't come this time.

And I'm like, reunion's like a week away, babe.

And so then he rings me one night, and he's like, right.

I want to come to Melbourne, but I've got a few concerns.

And I was like, okay.

And so then he laid out his concerns.

One concern was that my mental health has been really bad,

because coming back from a reality set

and into your normal life is quite disassociating.

Oh my God, it is crazy.

It is fucking insane.

I've run it multiple times.

And when you come back, you don't understand.

Everything is so overstimulating.

Everything is really anxiety-inducing.

Everything feels really loud and really,

it's, I don't know how to explain it,

but it is so fucking weird.

And I don't know, I guess because you use everything's done

for you and you in this,

it's because you've been taken out of your world

and put into a whole other world with all these strangers

and you're like, okay, this is my world now.

Your brain adapts very quickly.

Even when I film things,

even when I filmed at Boy Island

when I was hosting same things, it's like all day every day

is a different, I guess it's like being a FIFO worker,

but it's like you're away for a couple of months

and then you're home and then you're never going back there again.

So it's really, it's really discombobulating coming back.

So I understand that completely.

100% and like, I came back and I didn't have a job to go back to.

So I was literally just kind of like sitting,

waiting for Stephen to come see me.

Oh, to figure it out.

Yeah, come and see me babe.

Like come meet my friends and do all the things with me.

Like in my life, you never know

you might have come to Melbourne

and fell in love with it now, don't you?

Yeah.

And so that was one of them

because he's like, I didn't realize what impact this we have on you.

And like he's like, I've noticed you've been quite up and down

and you know, like obviously we had had a few disagreements.

The next one was, I don't want to come to your house

and have a disagreement because if we do,

I'm going to feel really uncomfortable in your space.

Hello, Danny Hewitt, are you on the line?

Well, let's fucking talk about that for a moment, actually.

Because I mentioned this up earlier.

It's still a quick segue about that whole thing

because the whole, I mean, you appear to be at it

and even now, you know, to be quite a progressive feminist woman

who isn't just like, you seem to understand

the theory behind it as well.

You know what I mean?

Like you're actually under, you have had,

obviously you like live this and talk about this

with your girlfriends.

Yeah.

So on the episode where Danny was saying,

I want to be the provider, whatever.

I was shocked that Steve,

I thought all of the guys would say it,

except for David, I was shocked at and Steve, I was shocked at.

Were you, how did you react to that?

Because you're the one that tried to bring up shit to Tyson.

Yeah.

So, and go, what the hell is up with you?

What are you?

So when this was said, when you saw,

did you, did Steve say it to you,

or just in a voxie, I can't remember?

So when you said it at the table,

and I think if you saw my face, I was like,

yeah, I want to see what the fuck you guys said about that,

because we didn't see anything more about your conversation.

There is nothing else about it,

but I do remember getting home that night

and the conversation came up about Danny.

Now, I don't, I think Steve and found out

about how I felt about it pretty quick,

because I was like, that was barked up.

It's like, that's not okay.

I was like, that is misogynistic on misogynistic.

Like at its finest, like what is going on there?

I was like, that made me sick.

I was like, God forbid a woman has done well for herself,

has a home that you can move into

and grow a life together.

I understand that he was like,

when he was talking about unpacking things

and I was agree with you.

Yes, I just meant, if Steve had moved into my home,

I would make sure that it could become our space.

And then we set it up so he's comfortable,

I'm comfortable, it needs to shift

from being my space to our space.

And then as soon as Danny's like,

oh, I'd feel like a bitch, maybe you are,

but like, I was like, yeah, no, I was like instantly.

I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Like that's not what I meant.

Like absolutely not.

And so Steven didn't say anything,

but he knew how I felt about it, pretty hardcore.

And I do think it's really funny that he says that,

because if I had moved to Sydney,

he's still living with his parents.

So I would have had to have got my own place anyway.

Yeah, you would have, so, I'm not really sure how,

And he was, and a protector,

like all, and this is what I found interesting

at the conversation as well,

was all of them at the table.

It's from what I understand.

I mean, I don't know anyone's financial situation,

obviously, but I go, okay,

Beck owns a house, Alyssa owns a house.

I think she owns her place.

Yeah, she owns a place, yeah.

Rachel seems to have a really great career,

and Steven, the parents.

Jiya has a four-bedroom house in Melbourne,

a big house in Melbourne, and apparently,

she wouldn't want to downsize to the Gold Coast.

I don't know about Scott and Gia's finances,

but it seems that all the women there

are financially independent at the very least,

if not more so than their partners.

And it's interesting that all these men agreed

that they would want to be the protector and the provider,

and I'm kind of like, then do it, then earn more money.

Like, not that you'd be your role,

but if you could have put that forward,

then what the fuck?

Be that, but all the basic things.

Be that babes, like be that,

like the amount of men in this experiment

that had their wives taking care of things

besides Jiya's, got paid favoritly,

but the amount of men in this experiment

that had their women paying for everything,

everything in our home,

why do you think I took all that stuff

and intimacy week?

I bought it all.

I did all that.

I was like, you know, Steven's like,

I like to eat healthy, so guess what babe?

I was wanting a grocery list, making meal plans,

buying all the groceries.

He told me one time that he was gonna eat clean.

We went to the shop, so he could buy stuff.

He put stuff in his car, and he looks at me and goes,

so what are you gonna get for yourself?

I went, oh, is that not for us both?

And I was like, don't worry about, I'll stop myself out.

So this whole, I wanna be your protector and a provider.

Also, be protecting.

What are you protecting me from besides freaking each other?

Like, let's see.

Yeah, I know.

And also protecting, and the one time,

I find it interesting, I sit on the podcast, you know,

first of all, in regards to Danny,

I go, well, if you're about protecting and providing

for a woman, why don't you protect her emotions?

And then what she's saying is, I want,

respect what she wants, and what she wants

is to not leave her house that she owns,

that her parent, her mother, and grandmother,

put money in too, that is like a,

it's also amazing that she's able to

fucking own that in the current fucking cost of living crisis.

But second of all, why can't Steven,

Steven had a chance to protect you as you brought up

before when it came to think about it?

Where were you at, or a treat, baby?

Where were you at?

I'm sorry, you were the catalyst for that.

Yeah.

You really wanted to protect me in that moment.

It would have just been shut down and been like,

back, I'm not into this.

But instead, you wanted into people pleasing mode,

and it was about them and keeping them amenable,

then worrying about me, your partner, your wife,

actually, who you're supposed to be

providing and protecting for.

It's very fucking interesting that these men have this angle,

and they're so scared of women having,

well, I don't know if these men in particular are,

but I think that this rhetoric, I think,

I think, for example, I think someone like Scott,

and tell me if I'm wrong, because my theory on Scott

is that he, he's talking about it in a genuine way,

and he thinks it's like a shiverless thing to do.

I don't agree with that, but I think Scott's intentions

are a bit different to Danny's, for example.

100% I think we're Scotty.

If, like, he met a woman, and she wanted to be said,

home, I'm, he would absolutely support that.

But I also think if the conversation was ended into,

I'll be like, okay, so that means I need to stop work

and you need to pay my superannuation,

so that if things happen, and when I retire,

I have a month to go to.

He'll be like, okay, fair enough.

Yeah, he's actually trying to be a provider.

Yeah, he actually wants to provide,

and he actually wants to set up.

They won't be like, oh, this is like your pitiful allowance

for the week, and control the money.

Hey, be like, can you go buy a pizza, credit card?

Go nuts.

Let me know what you need.

Yeah.

Again, I still don't agree with the whole premise,

because I think that women need to have

financial independence of freedom, and we all know this.

We've heard me say this in million times,

but I think there is a bit of a, a bit of a difference.

And it's interesting that Steven, who lives with his parents,

wants to shit on that, but like, if you're going to sit there

and say that I don't want to come to your place

back to when you guys were post-final vows,

saying I don't want to come to your place

because if we have an argument, I'm in your space.

It's like, well, I'm in your mummy's house.

But also, what do you know about this girl at a home stage

and deal with your entire family shooting questions at me?

And I sat there, and I took it like a chair.

And I said, because I said to him,

I was like, this is your opportunity to come to my space.

I did it for you.

And he's like, well, if I had that opportunity,

I would do that.

Like, we did do home stage at your house.

Like, this is literally your opportunity.

There's just not any cameras.

How odd.

So, what do you think, what do you think that's a genuine reason?

He was worried about you guys having an,

how do you been having arguments?

I don't know, get it.

The friction we were having was always around,

like the things he said around, like,

well, we don't even know if we're going to work in the future,

work taking priority.

And I just kept saying like, I just want to be a priority.

I just feel like, I'm just a 15 minute call

at the end of the day.

And he's like, oh, but I'm doing, I'm doing the best I can,

which is a phone call when he leaves his workshop

and goes to the gym and things like that.

I'm like, is that really the best you can?

Like,

any of you, I mean, then let's not be together.

Like, if that is the best that you can do, sure.

It's kind of like when Danny on the couch

a couple of episodes ago was like,

I guess I'm just a shit boyfriend.

And it's like, so what the fuck, you're a grown man.

You're just saying that your body incline

and that you're a gentleman and you're this provider

and you're a protector,

but you're saying you're a shit boyfriend.

Like, I just find these, it's not consistent.

It's completely inconsistent.

It really is like, if I hear you as a man,

well, I'm ready to roll someone I'm serious.

It makes me have to get violent.

Defending and rage.

The feminine rage.

I'm just like, stop it, just stop.

Because as a woman,

yeah, just no, absolutely not.

So in between of that,

so Stephen doesn't come,

he comes to Melbourne, he ends up coming to Melbourne.

So hang on, we're back to that.

So we gave him the three reasons.

And I kind of said to him, I was like,

I feel like you're giving me these things

and you're wanting me to make the decision for you.

I said, I'm not making this decision for you.

If you want to come to Melbourne and see me or you don't

and he's like, well, no, that's not that simple.

So I finally cracked and I went, right,

I'm wrapping this conversation up now.

The next time you call me,

you're either breaking up with me

or you're telling me you're coming to Melbourne.

Yep, fair enough.

I have enough, like we've been doing this

for two weeks, babe, enough enough.

So we didn't speak for about a day

and then he called me.

First question.

So where's your head at?

And I went, oh no, babe, we're not doing this.

We're not doing this.

We're not doing this.

I told you.

And so he said to me, he's like,

well, I have book flights to Melbourne.

I went, yeah, no.

Because you'd already told Danny

that you had book flights

and that you were trying to organize catch ups with him

before you even ran me

and told me the reasons of why you were hesitant to come.

What?

Yeah.

So he was going to go and see Danny.

No, no, no.

So he had told Danny he'd book flights

and so they were trying to organize having beers

and then the next day he called me

is like, look,

hey, so he'd already book flights, right?

When he called me with his hesitations,

he would already book flights.

What do you think that is?

This is so confusing.

Your confused.

Imagine me.

Holy shit.

How are you going?

I'm like, which way is up at this point?

Like, do you want to be with you?

Do you not?

And so he then turned around and he's like,

well, I guess, I guess I'm just like,

I'm really scared and I've got vulnerabilities.

And so it just comes back to this victim thing with Steven.

Yeah.

And so I just go, you know what?

I was like, I feel so empathetic.

I basically begged my boyfriend to get on a plane.

I was like, Stephen, please, you need to come down

and we need to see each other, please.

Like, this was what we agreed to, please.

I just want to see you.

I just want to be with you.

I miss you.

And I was like, this is probably paying into all of this

and our high emotions as well.

So please, can you just, can you just come to Melbourne?

And then we spoke like in the lead up.

And so basically it was another like four, five days

until he came because he was only here for like less than 24 hours.

Like less than 48 hours.

Like barely even two days.

Yeah, that's all, and he was like, this is all I could give.

This is all I could swing with work

and all my other commitments.

So I was like, okay, and he came down and we,

the first, it was really like, yeah.

So the first day I took him to the MCJ,

we went into the city, then we went out for lunch.

And you know, I was trying to do all these things again

that he would enjoy as well.

I'm like, oh, do you want to go to a record store?

He's like, oh, there's a heavy metal one in Brunswick.

So like the next day, we literally went to this heavy metal

record thing and he's talking to the owner about all this heavy

metal stuff.

And I was like, in the window to have my coffee like,

I love Brunswick.

It's thick hair.

Yeah, it's actually really sick that.

Yeah, it's gorgeous.

But it was just really bizarre and it wasn't,

so then we went to the shrine,

which is the Anzac Memorial in Melbourne.

And so we walked through that, came out and then we went

for a walk around the town.

And this is where the big conversation started happening.

And so the town is about an hour's walk,

just for anyone who doesn't know.

And if you remember, you don't know what the town is,

educate yourself.

Even I don't know the town.

Even I don't know the town.

I'm on it.

Yep.

So we're walking around the town and, you know,

guests all give pace even as to who's like,

I'm not entering in this conversation until he brings it up.

Because I was kind of like, I'm sick of being the one

who always brings things up because it never goes well, right?

So he was like, look, I'm feeling like things are off.

Like what, very much like, what's going on, Rachel?

Like what's happening here?

And so I said, look,

I'm feeling, I'm trying to protect myself a little bit here.

You know, you're sending me messaging of like,

I don't even know if we're going to be together

in the future.

I'm begging you to come to Melbourne and see me.

You know, my thing of like, well,

let's see each other every fortnight was like, well, no.

So I said, I'm trying to protect myself

while seeing if we'll work.

It's very confusing.

Till we're like, we talked around.

And then the ultimate kind of thing started happening.

We were Steve and started entering into,

I just don't think I can be the man that you need.

Classic.

Yeah.

So I very much ask the question of like,

well, what is it that you think I need?

Any is like, well, I think you need someone who, you know,

can prioritise you more.

Why?

Because I'm asking for prioritisation.

I said, you can't prioritise our relationship.

And he's like, well, I just don't think

that it's going to be enough of the distance,

that the distance is just making it really hard

and it can't be like the distance, the distance, the distance.

And I even asked him a question.

I was like, oh, Stephen, like, you knew you had all these things.

Like, you knew your business was going to take a hit

because you had to close up to come on here,

simple as that.

Like, you knew you had all these things

before you came on to married at first sight.

So why did you come?

And he's, because he's very much all about like,

I want to have it all together.

I want to have the bank account.

I like, I want to be leaving somewhere here.

Like, he did have to only move back into his parents

to come on the show, but, you know, still.

OK.

But still, if I had to move to Sydney quickly,

it was with his parents, which I was not moving there.

Sorry, I'm not there.

I don't know.

But no.

And so it was very much like a conversation.

I was like, I want to have it all together.

I want to have this.

And I'm like, but I'm not asking you to,

because we can do that together.

Yeah.

And it makes sense to do it together, right?

And I was like, so why did you come on the show?

If you want to have all these things together,

like, why did you come?

And he's like, well, I almost had it.

I was almost there.

And then he's like, and then I'll come on the show

and it sent it all backwards.

And so I like, because he had to close his business down.

So that's just income and all of these things.

And so I was devastated.

Like, I was like, what is happening right now?

Because essentially, he's telling me every reason why

he can't be with me.

And without actually saying the words, saying it.

We've all turned the town, we had a good chat.

We literally had to like stop, get in the car,

and drive home, which was really awkward

to drive home from the town.

Like, in the midst of this conversation,

because I was like, I'm driving now and I'm crying.

I need to try and focus here.

So let's just get home.

So we came home and we continued the conversation.

And it was just like, around in circles.

Like, I don't think I can be the man that you mean.

The distance is too much.

We can't, like, afford nights seeing each other

like drive back and forth is never going to work.

Because someone will miss one weekend

and the other person will get pissed and like,

easily fall apart.

And I'm like, that's what compromise is, you know?

Like, it can't come off when you come another weekend.

But it was just like a solid no, no, no, no.

Like, it's not going to work, it's not going to work.

So I eventually just looked at him

and said, well, I guess that's the end of Rachel's Devo.

And he was really perplexed by that.

Like, wait, that's not what I'm saying.

And I was like, Steven, you're literally just broken up

with me about 15 times.

Yeah.

You're literally sitting here,

telling me every single reason

that we can't be together

and not offering any kind of solution.

You're not trying to offer any kind of solution.

And your biggest thing on is, it's the distance.

Oh, there was no distance if it'd be fine.

No, I don't think it would have been

because your priority was not me.

Your priority is your job.

Your priority is everything else before me.

Because let's be, let's build some real tea here.

You couldn't come see me for three weeks, right?

Scott had a yacht party on the weekend.

You drove all the way from Sydney

for a four-hour yacht party for Scott.

But coming to see Melbourne, Sydney development.

You have to melt it.

10 hours.

With this fuel crisis?

Yeah, I know.

Oh my God.

Yep.

Drove from Sydney to Melbourne

because he had been invited to a yacht party

with Scott off Scots, which was only four hours in length.

But he came down, paid for accommodation,

went out all of those things.

But coming and seeing me

from between Farnavows and reunion was a hustle.

Holy shit, Rach.

So seeing Stephen now

and the way he's behaving out every weekend

and partying and all that imagery, I've got to be real.

Like I actually said to him the other day,

I was like, I watched that.

I don't even recognize you.

Other ducks, not the man I fell in love with.

I feel like you're most side of yourself.

Yeah, I've seen him at all these parties

and all these clubs, which is like, you know,

every has every right to go and have a good time.

Yeah, sure.

But it's interesting with this context

of how much effort and how he needed to focus on work

and all these other priorities as you're saying.

But now suddenly, Dildo Racing with Joel

is more of a priority or a yacht party

with Scott is more of a priority

than his work it seems.

Yep, because this is an opportunity

and it's not gonna last forever.

So the capitalizing of it,

whereas I wanted a relationship, babe.

I came here for love.

I fell in love and was left.

Oh my God, I'm so sorry, babe.

This is so awful.

So where are you at now?

Because reunion was filmed a while ago now.

And you're rewatching it and reliving it.

How are you feeling now?

And what's in your future?

Positive outlooks.

Positive outlooks.

So look, it is really hard to rewatch it

in the way of like feelings come up.

You watch it like, you know, I watch final days.

I've still got the tablets with record.

I listen to it every weekend.

And you know, it reminds me of Stephen.

But I think the blessing with me and Stephen and I

I should say is we are still friends and we still speak

and we do have like respecting care for each other.

It was never about him not caring for me

or me not caring for him.

It was a matter of, it wasn't ready for a relationship.

He just wasn't.

He didn't have that room for it in his life

and he's got to be growing up to do to be honest.

I'm sorry, like, look at how I articulate myself

versus himself.

Yeah, yeah.

We're just, it's very different.

He needs himself awareness.

And unfortunately, he doesn't have that yet.

I want to say.

So it's, it's been good in the way.

We are quite lucky because the other couples

are not like us.

The other couples who have broken up, despise each other.

Whereas Stephen and I can message each other.

I'm going to be like, how are you going after watching that?

Like, that was a really special time.

Like, we had a lot of fun.

And so there is like this real, neutral caring

respect that we have for each other, which is really nice.

So that's good.

So like, we're in a good place like that.

I went to no contact a couple of times with Stephen.

Straight after the show, I went to Thailand with my girl,

Alyssa.

We went to no contact and then I got drunk by night

and I called him because I, you know, had a new heart.

Classic.

Classic.

And then I actually went no contact again

because I found out he lied to me

to write the experiment about.

He's whereabouts.

A few times.

What do you mean?

So story done.

Sorry.

She's a talker.

There's so much.

Tell me.

I mean, like, there's just so much of it.

Yeah.

So after commitment.

So commitment ceremony three, although it was an air,

that way it was actually a really difficult

cast just for Stephen and I, which if you watch it back

and see the way I shift it around, you look at my face,

I've clearly been crying.

Yeah.

Okay.

So it was like, yeah.

So I messaged him after that.

And I was like, well, we've been protected for some reason.

Yeah.

Like I, I learned some valuable lessons that night, but okay.

And so he was like, I need to go home because he went home

quite a bit on the weekends because he's like,

I've got to go do my business.

I've got to go do this.

Oh, okay.

Oh, I spent a favorite time by myself, like in the first half

of it.

And then like I shifted and he had done everything you need to do.

But it was like, I need to go home.

I'm sleep deprived.

I, my mental health isn't good.

And I was like, they go.

Like your mental health is so important.

Go.

So it was like a week or two later, ask girl,

is it getting our makeup done?

And Beck was like, I think it's really good that,

Danny and Stephen had brunch, oh, it wasn't even a week.

I was like the next week.

I think it's really good that Stephen and Danny

had brunch over the weekend.

And like, I would like catch up and start making a friendship.

And I went, what?

What?

And she's like, yeah, on Saturday, I was like, what?

And she's like, have I said something that I shouldn't say?

And I was like, Stephen, was that his parents on the weekend?

And that's what he told me.

Yeah.

So I made sure that like we weren't mic'd.

We were off camera and I just said to him,

I just need you to know that I know that on Saturday,

you actually came back.

Because he went home after friends and family.

So I was like, I know that you came back

and you had a brunch with Danny.

And I was like, look, I do think it really sucks

because I spent that entire weekend by myself.

Like I even told myself out in Newtown,

like everything just to try and like,

because everyone's like doing their own dates

and stuff, so I'm like, well, take myself

on a freaking day.

Have fun today.

Why not?

And so I was like, I found that really disappointing.

Then after filming, it all came out.

So the brunch he actually had was with Danny and Adrian.

From last year.

Oh my God.

So even when I bought it up with him to say,

I have been told this, you did not take that opportunity

to say, hey, yeah, you've heard that.

By the way, it wasn't just Danny.

It was Adrian, I wasn't aggressive.

I wasn't a thing.

I literally just said to him, I just want you to know

that I know that I'm not making a thing of it.

But it does hurt my feelings to know this.

And you didn't help me.

That was it.

That was it.

And he still didn't give me the full truth.

He would message me all this

because I went to the gym quite early in the morning.

I would then get a message and be like,

he'd be like, I'm going to the gym.

You never even went that long and I just kind of thought,

oh, because we had filming call times

and all that, he's coming back to get ready.

I have since found out he would tell me he's going to the gym

and he would go have coffee with Danny.

Real weird thing to be lying about.

Like it's a really weird thing.

Really weird thing to be, why would it matter?

Yeah, like, yeah, it's so weird.

So I then went, sent him a message being like,

I can't talk to you right now.

I've just been told all this.

I don't want to speak to you.

Like, please don't respond.

You've just shown me that you have no respect for me, essentially.

Like, yeah, yeah.

And then Stan came and we had to film together.

So me being me, I was like a bit of a nice queen to begin with.

But then I know Steve and that rattles him

and so he's not going to be able to be comfortable

and things like that.

So I then had to like bring the guard down

and make him feel comfortable.

It's always me that has to make him feel comfortable

and make his needs.

He needs to be mothered.

And I'm sorry, I'm not out here being anyone's mother.

I'm sorry.

I've got crook shanks.

I can be her mother and that's it.

And yeah, so I remember speaking to him on the phone about it,

I'm like, I just don't understand why you lied about it.

And he's like, I've got nothing.

He's like, I don't even, I couldn't even tell you why I lied.

Like, it's such a silly thing to be lied about.

I was like, but can you understand?

Because you lied about those things.

I now question everything because I'm like,

what else were you lying about if you're so happy to lie

about something so small?

So small?

Yes, it's, that's really, really bizarre.

That's really, really heartbreaking.

So, so you went no contact, contact, contact, contact.

You guys are fine now though.

Yeah, we're good.

You can message.

We can message.

We have conversations about things that can get a little bit

heated in terms of like, I understand this, I understand that.

But we always come, it always comes back to a good place.

Always.

Yeah.

Well, that's lovely.

And so, okay.

How about you dating?

Have you dated anyone else?

Have you found anyone else?

See it interested in not, not, not?

No, it's real bad.

I'm just, I'm not interested.

I'm like, my focus has really been,

I'll just like get through the show.

It was really important to me that our edit wasn't ruined.

Thank you whoever went out talking to the media.

But, you know, yeah, I'm just kind of like, we'll see what happens.

I'm, I've also going in, it sounds so stupid probably,

but I'm also now a little bit nervous to re-entail

like the dating scene because it's like,

are you going to want to date me because of me and who I am

and what I have to offer as a partner?

Or, oh, that's Rachel from Mass, I can get my five seconds.

Yeah.

Well, I guess the, the answer to that is don't go public

with anyone for a very long time.

Very long time.

And then you'll know for sure.

And I think that look, I feel like in this time,

I mean, it sounds like you've learnt a lot from this experience anyway.

And I guess you've, even though it wasn't enough being Steve,

I think, you know, it sounds like your boundaries have been reinforced

and you are more certain of what you want and what you don't want.

And even you're being like, oh, it's so embarrassing I did this.

It's like, I think anything that you can look back on and go,

oh, it's so embarrassing, like, you know,

I begged him to come out to Mel, but, you know,

we all are moments like that.

But I think the fact that you can look back on it and go,

oh, I shouldn't have done that means you won't do it again.

So I think this has been a great experience

without too much horror for you considering massacres.

Sure, considering some of the people that have absolutely.

Yeah, look, I think I just approach it very differently now.

I've always been really focused on them and like,

will I be enough for them and them and them?

Well, no, are you enough for me now, honey?

Because I know I'm enough and maybe you need to match me for once.

Love it, obsessed. Oh my God, Rachel.

Thank you so much.

I'll let you go now, but thank you for talking to me for so long.

Is there anything else you want to leave for the audience with?

Oh, the last question is, so long story short, Steve didn't ghost you.

No, long story short, Steven did not ghost me.

And that's lovely.

Thanks so much, Rachel.

You're so welcome.

Thanks so much for having me on.

I've had the best time.

Oh, amazing.

Thanks, good.