Magic of the Cup: A Tad Predictable Podcast

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Hello and welcome to another episode of tad predictable episode 209 of the show and we are

grateful for you joining us. It's a late one for us in terms of kicking off the podcast because we

have to endure not only at a time, not only extra time, but penalty shootouts in the last FA Cup

game of round five. West Ham versus Brentford. West Ham going through on penalties five to three,

obviously. Not the right moment, not the right time to be doing a pinnaker if you don't go

Tara. I mean, whenever it works, it looks spectacular when it doesn't work, especially in the way that

it happened in this shootout. You almost want to, well, you basically want the ground to swallow

you up because if you stay standing, which he did called the bluff and basically the ball just

gets lobbed straight up the goalkeeper. Easiest save he's going to make probably for the rest of the

season to be honest. So unfortunate for Brentford. But you have to give credit to West Ham with

the penalties that they took. Every single one of them was pretty much in the corner or at least

hit hard enough way. Even when Kelleher guessed the right direction, he wasn't getting anywhere

near the ball. And we know how good Kelleher is in penalty shootouts. Liverpool fans specifically

will know how good he is in penalty shootouts. He was the most successful Liverpool goalkeeper in

penalty shootouts. And he also scored a goal in penalty shootouts as well in the lead cup final

couple of years back. So if it got to that point, I'm no doubt he would have taken one and I'm

pretty sure he would have been confident to score. But alas, they go out in the fifth round of

the FA Cup. Poster for West Ham, after a difficult season, they've still got business to take

care of from a Premier League perspective. But they continue their march to Wembley.

They go through in the FA Cup. We'll get into it a little bit with regards to the ramifications

of making it this far in the FA Cup for the respective teams involved. But as it stands,

the draw happened tonight as well. We already know who's going to be playing who in the quarter

finals. We've got Man City who will be hosting Liverpool. Chelsea will be hosting Port Vail.

Arsenal will be hosting Southampton. And it was going to be the winner of West Ham,

West Ham, Brentford game. We now know that to be West Ham, they're going to be hosting leads

united. And these games are going to take place on the weekend of April the 4th and 5th.

And you won game away from Wembley. What a special moment for the likes of Port Vail, Southampton,

who obviously aren't in the Premier League. And then you look at teams like West Ham and

then leads considering the seasons that they've had. And the struggles that they've had,

the season, imagine what a day out at Wembley could do for one of those clubs. At least one of

those clubs is guaranteed a place in the semi-finals. Then for the likes of Chelsea,

they've got yet another potential banana skin. We saw how close they came to being eliminated

against Rexham. We'll see whether or not they are more concentrated, more aware of the situation

against Port Vail and Man City versus Liverpool. I mean, from a Liverpool perspective, their record

at the Etihad is quite appalling. So I'm sure they would have, their hearts would have skipped

a bit, a little bit, seeing that fixture pop up. But again, it's a cup, quarter final. You never

know, going into those games, you don't know what the, what's at stake outside of those games.

And we'll touch on that a little bit more when we get into the first topic that we're going to

be discussing. But for this episode, we've got three topics that we want to discuss,

timely topics that I think are relevant to the landscape of football at this present point in time.

I think it's okay for us to jump into the first topic because it is with regards to the FA Cup.

It's whether or not, you know, taking into account the fifth round, whether or not the

magic of the FA Cup is still real. Obviously, I mentioned the teams that have

gone through to the quarter finals. The way they got there was Liverpool played, obviously,

Friday night. They beat Wolves 3-1, Arsenal beat Mansfield 2-1, Man City held off Newcastle.

They won 3-1 in that game. Chelsea, we mentioned they went through to add a time extra time.

They beat Rexham 4-2. Rexham, obviously, getting that red card as well in that game. Quite a pivotal

moment in that game. Southampton, they upset Fulham. 1-0 leads to care of business against not

Norwich. They beat Norwich 3-0, Portville beat Sunderland 1-0 and Westham went through on penalties,

5-3 after a 2-2 draw against Brentford. Now, you look at the FA Cup. It's not a museum piece.

It's a tournament that I think has had its ups and downs in terms of attempts to revive

the magic that is the FA Cup over the last couple of seasons. We've seen heavy criticism

not too long ago for the big clubs. One could say lack of care or lack of serious intent.

With some of the lineups that they were putting up for FA Cup games, especially in the early

rounds, we saw a lot of big teams getting knocked out early and people were quite critical of

some of the bigger teams and the teams that were putting up in how early they were getting knocked

out of FA Cup games. Based on the quarterfinals this time around, you see the likes of Mancity

and Liverpool who have been in the title race for the last four or five years.

Likes of Chelsea who are a Perennial Champions League side, Arsenal, obviously, they're on the

ascent. They've been the most consistent team in the Premier League over the last three years,

I would say. Then you've got the fairy tale story in Portville. You've got the underdog story

in Southampton and you've got two teams that are struggling towards the bottom end of the

Premier League in West Ham and Leeds that are looking to do something special in the FA Cup as well.

So I think there's a nice blend of teams this time around. We've seen in the past.

Sometimes it sways one way or the other. Sometimes we've seen just the big teams just dominating

and filling out the vast majority of the quarterfinals teams and then at times we've seen some shocking

results and spectacular results from an entertainment perspective and we've seen a lot of

underdogs step up to this stage of the tournament. But I do think that the FA Cup is giving us a

live experiment in competitive economics and psychology. You look at the results, you look at the

fact that the heavyweights in their respective fixtures largely progressed. City, Liverpool, Arsenal,

it tells you that depth and quality still matters and you certainly look at the teams that those

respective clubs were able to put out there with rotations but yet looking to still looking

quite strong is a testament to their squad building and the respective recruitment teams that they

have. But obviously the headline that will stick out is that Port Vale win over Sunderland.

I don't think that's one of those nostalgic situations and necessarily I think it's quite an

interesting data point sort of about resource allocation because I mentioned the squad depth

that a city in Liverpool and Arsenal have and I'm sure all three of those teams would complain

about their lack of squad depth and where they could have improved and where they're certainly

from a livable perspective. I've mentioned where they've lacked in terms of building squad depth

to the levels that like an Arsenal have for instance and even Arsenal. The best built squad

in the Premier League this season, they'll complain that they've left themselves short in certain

areas. So it's a never-ending cycle, it's a never-ending pursuit of perfection but you look at

a Sunderland, you look at the squad selection, you look at the rotation policy that has to take place

in a season like this, in a season in the Premier League where at the very least you're competing

in three tournaments, you've got the Premier League, you've got the Carabell Cup and you've got

the FA Cup as well. You've got players that are in your squad that have been training all season

long, haven't been playing much football, you want to reward some of these players as well,

you want to give them a chance to show that they're capable. You also are putting out a squad by all

accounts that even if it is heavily rotated, like we saw with a Fulham for example, nine changes

in their team that played this weekend against Southampton, you're still confident that as heavily

rotated as it may be, there is enough in there for you to still go and win that game and you can

always supplement that by having a really strong bench which is what Fulham did as well and it's

that age-old argument of do you start your starters, take the lead and then take them off or do you

hold them back, you know, almost wait to see if you need to call them off the bench, if you don't

create because then now you've fully rested them, if you do at least you've got them as an option to

come on which West Fulham tried to do and unfortunately for them it didn't quite work out, but

there are different ways to go about this, I also want to draw attention to the Rexham Chelsea

game obviously, you know, heartbreak if you're a neutral or a Rexham fan for Rexham because they

certainly put Chelsea to the test, they came with a game plan, they played their brand-of-football,

Chelsea again another team that you know has a deep squad able to rotate in this game, but

with those rotations comes a lack of chemistry, it comes a lack of cohesion, comes a lack of

game time for a lot of these players that are trying to get up to wraps with the pace of the game

for example and all of these interesting intricacies play out in a tournament like an FA Cup where

you know, on paper you might look certainly a lot stronger than the team you're facing, but

in practice, from a chemistry perspective, from a cohesion perspective, it doesn't always work out

as seamlessly as, you know, just putting out players on paper and expecting them because they're

better players or certainly from a perspective basis that they are perceived as better players,

footballs played on the pitch, it's not played on score sheets or on paper.

Well, I think you look at the other element of it from a modeling perspective, it introduces

I think two very measurable effects that have consequences for the Premier League and the run-in.

First and foremost, you look at Flex2 congestion, teams still in the cup, they face additional,

you know, matches, they're going to have to, as I mentioned, it's penciled in for the weekend of

the fourth and the fifth of April, so the game that you would have been playing then are going to have

to be caught up at some point in time and then some of these teams are also involved in other

tournaments as well in European football, so it's not just the case of, you know, the FA Cup that

they have to concentrate on, they've got Premier League responsibilities as all the teams have

and then you might have European responsibilities for Man City and Arsenal, they've got

Carabao Cup responsibilities and then obviously FA Cup responsibilities as well, so that can

weigh on a team and we've seen at times a reduction in expected points per game if, you know,

you're having to rotate and you've got quite a shallow squad or the chemistry isn't quite

there for the players that are coming on and having to step up and deputise for maybe

your traditional starting 11 or even traditional, you know, court 13, 14 players that you usually

rely on throughout the season. That's going to be interesting, especially when you look at the fact

that from a West Ham perspective, does that then give an advantage to say a Tottenham?

If West Ham go for on the FA Cup, but obviously Tottenham have European matches to worry about as

well, so maybe that evens it out a little bit as well. The leads again, I've mentioned and I

maintain this that leads I think are going to be safe, I think you look at their form, you look at

the way they're playing, they are playing like a mid-table team and that's going to be enough to

see them to safety this season and then high up the league table, you look at a Chelsea and a

Liverpool that are fighting for Champions League positions, adding an additional tournament in the

form of the FA Cup, quarterfinals, what does that do for their fixture congestion and then obviously

the two big boys on top of the Premier League at this point in time asked more with a very healthy

advantage at this present point in time and that Man City trying to hunt them down again.

What ramifications do these extra games have on these teams we will see obviously in due course?

The second thing that you want to also take into account is momentum, you know, a cup upset

or a gritty extra time win or you know, winning in penalties like West Ham did, those type of wins

can change things, they can change the expected value of the next league games because confidence

all of a sudden shoots up, there's a belief and a real quantifiable variables in short-term

performance for players, sometimes you can see almost, you know, they're playing with their chest

out more, they're calling for the ball, they want the ball because of positive performances in

cup games and when you do rotate, like let's say a Liverpool did in the FA Cup and you get positive

performances from, for example, you know, a Rio Angamoa, that can catapult them in terms of their

status within the squad, their importance within the squad, the level of minutes that they've

been getting before, that game and after the game can drastically change, you know, for the better,

if you have a performance like that, so all of these type of momentum building scenarios

almost develop from it and then obviously there's the overall team momentum.

There is an argument to be made for playing regularly and winning regularly and I think

the team this is most important for is Arsenal. When you're top of the Premier League,

you want to just be winning games, yes, they're, they're, you know, at this present point in time,

they're involved in every single tournament, they could win every single tournament as things stand,

that breeding that culture of just winning games, you know, week in, week out, it's, it's so

helpful for the league, it helps with the rhythm of the team, it helps with the tempo of the

team, it helps with the competitive determination of the teams, it helps also with just confidence

of knowing that we can get wins in so many different ways because not all games are one the same

way and being able to continue winning gives you the opportunity to win in different ways which

again gives you that assurance in future games of well, you know, we win this similar situation

last time out, we ended up getting the result, we ended up getting the win that we needed and it

just creates that muscle memory of just being a team of winners and I think that's very important

for Arsenal, especially a team that has come, come up short, you know, on numerous occasions

under Michael Arta, obviously they won early on in his tenure at the club but since then they've

not really been able to get over the line, getting these wins, you got your short-term goals,

you got your medium-term goals, you got your long-term goals, the short-term goals being, you know,

the game that's in front of you, the next game, go and win that next game and if they can keep

doing that it's going to allow them to build the momentum and form, we've seen it so far this season

and you know that then ticks off the medium-term goal and then it can result in you getting those

holy grail long-term goals in the form of trophies as that is the currency for Arsenal this season.

So it will be interesting to see the ramifications for the relegation zone, the ramifications for

teams fighting to get into European football and the ramifications for the team, the two teams that

are fighting for the Premier League title, I hope I'm not being disrespectful to, you know, the

likes of Aston Villa and a man united by not including them in the title race but in my opinion

it's a two-horse race, I don't see any of the other teams catching up to

and event and you know potentially overtaking Arsenal in first place and even city are struggling

to keep up pace with Arsenal at this present point in time we saw how huge the results were

last-hand arch we were watching Premier League football. So from my perspective I guess the last

thing I really want to touch on specifically with regards to this is just that rotation

and I mentioned why teams would rotate as I mentioned you know they are players you want to reward,

they are players you want to keep engaged and and and feel like they're they're a part of the team.

A lot of that is done in FA Cup and Karabakh Cup games you also want to reward people that are

trading well and maybe haven't quite gotten games in the Premier League you want to

give those that might have niggles from your starting core players a chance to recover

you assess the team that you're playing and and you pick a squad you know that reflects you

know that rotation but also reflects a confidence that you can still get through that team.

For Fulham they've come out under heavy criticism for the level of rotation I think that

the I get why they rotated in in the way that they did I think the only thing that would

annoy me if if I was a if I was a Fulham fan is we're in the FA Cup for round this is the last

trophy we're fighting for for this season I want to you know I would look at the league table

and I would say I you know we're currently sitting in 10th place with 40 points that holy grail 40

point mark obviously you know we've mentioned on this podcast that that 40 point mark is more

here's historical trope than what is actually needed to stay in the Premier League between 34

and 36 points you you can stay in the Premier League based on recent history so Fulham are well

beyond that and they've even gone past the trope 40 points so they're safe they're not getting

relegated this season right why would you not prioritize the FA Cup you're not gonna

it will be hard for you to get into Europe I appreciate they are currently four points off of

Brentford who sit in seventh and maybe that's the argument that they would be making that well

we're still thinking we still have a chance to get into European football and that's our primary

target to get as high up the Premier League table as possible we know the financial rewards in

getting into European football so I appreciate that but if if if I've reached the fifth round

two rounds away from Wembley I would be prioritizing the FA Cup we saw what it did to you know

for Crystal Palace and their players last season and their fans last season as well you know

getting an FA Cup win and FA Cup is also another avenue to get into Europe as well

so if I'm if I'm a Fulham fan I'm bitterly disappointed that we didn't put all our eggs in

trying to get as far as we possibly can in the FA Cup if rotation was to take place I would have

preferred rotation take place in the Premier League where we are already safe and then try and

be ambitious and chase that trophy so that would be the only other thing I would mention that

that would be my criticism towards Fulham and and and I think it was justified that

they were heavily criticized for their rotation and the level of rotation they had in their squad

in their game but again you look at the team they put out they would have been confident that

they can still go on and when that game you look at you know the issues silver had with the

officiating in the game as well you can feel that they were hard done by but at the end of the day

in Cup competitions if you lose your route there's there's no there's no time to recover there's

no time to feel sorry for yourselves at the end of the day you're out and I guess that's part of

the Cup's magic and it's what keeps it alive results like this are Southampton winning

because it changes the tactical choices that teams have to make it changes the psychological

momentum that teams get from these results it's not mystical I think it's quite measurable

and for clubs with thin squads clubs you know the Cup is a hazard it is a potential banana skin

and for clubs needing belief I think it's a great opportunity you look at a Liverpool for example

who have not had a great season you go for on the FA Cup it can start to instill some belief in

that team that okay maybe we're not as bad as we have been performing you know throughout the

rest of the season and that could then kept catapult you towards the end of the season to pick up

a level of momentum and form and try and do something special that's my thoughts on the FA

Cup good luck to the teams that are in through to the quarter finals what we're going to do is we'll

take a quick break we'll come back and we will discuss the next topic that I'm interested to talk

about we'll be right back of these short messages start your day with Quaker protein instant oatmeal

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time and a lot of supplies last all right we are back we are discussing um three topics on this

podcast today episode 209 of attack predictable the first topic that we discussed was the FA Cup

and whether that magic of the FA Cup was still alive the next topic I want to discuss and a lot

of thanks have to go to our executive producer Mr. Guy Drinkle who selected Tottenham as the team

that a tad predictor or a tad predictable podcast would be rooting for over the last nine games

of the Premier League season it's a transition on this show we pick a team uh towards the end of

the season that we're going to be rooting for we've had some positive success with regards to the

teams that we've rooted for so hopefully if you're you know if you're Tottenham there's not a

lot to cling on to I appreciate that then I you know by all means cling on to the fact that

every time we've picked a team they've picked their momentum has picked up their form has picked up

you know I remember we went early a couple of seasons ago when Steven Gerald got fired from

Aston Villa and as soon as he got fired we chose Aston Villa as a team for a tad predictor or

podcast and they obviously shot up the table and ended up having an incredible back end of

the season there and we've helped brighten get into European football for example we've we've

had some special moments with the teams we selected so hopefully it's a good omen for Tottenham

that they ended up being selected we had quite a quite an intense discussion if you do want to go

back and listen to that episode definitely go and check that out it's it was a previous episode

episode 208 where executive producer guide drink called chose from a selection of teams that I

pitched for for him in terms of which teams we thought would would would be great contenders for it

Brentford were there Westham were a team born with were the other one along with

Nottingham Forest and of course Tottenham and of those teams we end up going with Tottenham

Hotspur so where does that put us it puts us in an awkward position because we then have to

look at the the reality of the situation this is a team that is the worst team from a

formed perspective in the Premier League a team that has not won a game in 2026 and

what could be potentially a devastating situation if relegation happens for Tottenham

we want it to know what is what does that cost what does that look like what does that feel like

you know for Tottenham it's it's a topic that I'm sure Tottenham fans have largely started to

discuss now it's a topic that they try to avoid as long as possible but again when you look at

the form table when you look at how the team is playing from an analytical perspective and from

just an eye test perspective they are worrying signs and you then start wondering okay this could

be a reality and what does this all mean I think you have to separate the financial mechanics of

it from the cultural consequences spurs generated about 690 million pounds last year we've seen obviously

clubs have been releasing their their financials over the last month and you know relegation

could cut income at spurs by an estimated 261 million so from that 690 million and spurs have been

I don't know if it's disrespectful to say punching above their weight but I think they

they've maximized opportunities very well from a commercial perspective in my opinion

and I think the frustration for spurs fans is that that level of maximization has not

found its way towards team building and on the pitch

applications so there is that disjointed note where spurs from a commercial perspective are very

strong they are pound for pound one of the leading clubs whereas from an on pitch perspective from

a team building perspective from a player perspective and maybe coaches perspective they don't

act like or portray themselves as one of those elite teams at times and that has led to a lot

of frustration but you have to look at that financial you know drop in income 261 million

that's a seismic hit I don't think it's an immediate death sentence

there are contractual levels that that will will be pulled if spurs were to get relegated you

look at you know relegation salary reduction clauses for example in contracts and it has been

confirmed that some spurs players have those contract clauses you look at parachute payments

obviously for some clubs it's a lot more meaningful than for others I've been warning people and

trying to get ahead of it but without you know without going too much into the nitty gritty but just

yeah just making people aware of the long-term commercial deals and the ramifications that could

arise from a relegation from spurs the I think that there is obviously also going to be that

blunt immediate shock that's going to take place look the club's asset base they've got that

near 1 billion stadium and they've got a global brand that's not going to disappear overnight

so you then have to look at what happens in practice first there's going to be

issues with regards to cash flow you look at broadcasting rights of you know spurs being one of

the elite teams in the Premier League that's obviously not going to be the case from a

broadcasting perspective they won't have for example if they don't go and win it champions league

football that again is you know the broadcasting revenues that get generated from that are massive

they then won't have the Premier League behind them from a broadcasting perspective as well

that would take a hit there's a potential for matchday revenue to fall as well chances are you

can't be you know demanding high ticket prices if you're not in the Premier League as well

but we know how these London clubs sometimes act you never know what the case may be but you

would imagine that there's going to be a quite drastic fall from that perspective and you have to

look at you know the thing I've been dancing around and trying to prepare people without getting

too much into into details that I'm not a liberty to get into should I say it's probably the

best way to put it commercial partners will seek renegotiation of deals so that's the first bit

that cash flow element of it right then the second bit you have to look at it from a sporting

perspective you look at the top players with ambition you look at the players that have released

clauses they will likely be looking to depart that's going to obviously reduce the quality of the

squad and it makes immediate promotion harder and I think there's a delicate balance to be made with

regards to how you balance out the squad in terms of from a financial perspective and then from

an unpitched perspective to make sure that you get back up as soon as you possibly can

for a club the size of spurs it's imperative that they get back on the first try

the third thing that you have to look at is from an operational perspective you look at a lot of

the fixed costs many of which will remain stadium operations staff debt servicing so expenses

won't fall in line with revenue we've already spoken about how revenue is going to go down some

of these fixed costs are not going to go down and that recovery part then depends on governance and

I guess that's where a lot of the concern comes from spurs fans is they've not been happy with the

governance of the club for for a number of years now and if the board act decisively if they

protect the core revenue streams if they retain a promotional capable spine in that team if

they avoid panic sales I think spurs can treat relegation as sort of that shock to them to that

can be managed but if the board start panicking if they're selling assets left right incessant

her if there's mismanagement with regards to recruitment then obviously the club risks a

multi-year decline and then that could be catastrophic and devastating beyond belief in my opinion

so there's timing to all of this the first 12 months after relegation are decisive

how the club manages for example contracts whether it keeps a competitive call how it communicates

with sponsors and fans will determine whether relegation is a one season detour or it's the

start of a longer fall we've seen some big names go down and take years to come back into the

Premier League from a pragmatic takeaway perspective I think that relegation is survivable

for a club would spurs as resources but that governance has to be competent there has to be

patience and there has to be a strategy a defiant strategy of getting back up that is where the

pause for concern is how much can we trust that spur spurs board to execute the plan to get back

up as swiftly as competently as possible because when you look at the financial numbers it's quite

stark the difference between one season and then bouncing back up and a prolonged decline

it's going to be largely affected by what they would do over the next 12 months if they are to

get relegated still an F right obviously I know a lot of people are trying to prepare themselves

for the championship already but it's still an F I still have confidence as spurs will stay up

my only cautionary what I've made some cautionary thoughts here but another cautionary thought

in my opinion is that you can talk about all these you know levels that they're going to be able to

pull from a commercial perspective to try and stave off some of the concerns that they would have

from that side of things and but you have to also then look at what relegation would feel like

for a club like Tottenham and their stature it's going to be humiliating more so in a season when

Arsenal are more than likely going to go and win the league title it's effectively stripping away

the identity of spurs they are a blueprint for a crisis you lose revenue yes but you also lose

credibility and that's going to be interesting to see how spurs would navigate something like that

if it were to if it were to happen if spurs were to go down the potential of you know

multi-year project to restore trust you know and what it would take to then attract top talent again

the board need to act in my opinion they need to act like this is a crisis not a minor inconvenience

I think every decision in the next nine games is it needs to be treated like life and death

because that's how I see the situation that's the reality this is not a sporting setback I think

it's existential I think that reputational damage of going down even if they do come straight back up

it will be difficult to attract the level of player on your you know let's say they go down they

come back the next year who are the type of players that they're going to be signing we already

know spurs have issues with regards of of of you know how much wages they pay and and competing for

those elite players when you've got the likes of a Chelsea and a Man City that play that pay

unique wages then put it that way you've got the likes of a Liverpool and Man United that have

that historical prestige you've got an arsenal that potentially are defending champions and then

also then if they are able to defend their title the the following season but you're already

probably at the bottom of that list especially if you're coming you know back to the Premier League

and then you'll have other established clubs like Anastin Villa for example maybe a new castle

who players might look at them and say actually I would rather go to those teams they seem to have

things going in the right direction compared to you guys that have just come back up

I don't know are we going to be in the relegation battle again this would be you know it's two seasons

in a row now spurs have been in in and around those positions that they don't want to be anywhere near

around so that level of trust is eroding at a rapid pace and they need to fix it even if they

do stay up this season I think they need to do something really drastic in order to make sure

they know when near that relegation so if anything I would even argue they shouldn't be

in the bottom half of the Premier League if they do stay up this season next season they shouldn't

be anywhere near the bottom half of the Premier League they need to do something so drastic to

repair some of the trust issues that have developed with fans but also with players across the board

and that's going to be a task in itself and again we go back to the governance of the board and

whether or not they're going to be able to do this but I'll leave that question for you to answer

let's take another break we'll come back with our final topic it's with regards to Man United

specifically Michael Carrick and Jason Wilcox and whether or not that pairing could be Man United

solution but before we go to those ad breaks I do want to give a quick shout out to epilindex.com

you'll go to hub for in-depth Premier League analysis and tomorrow's top stats today

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all right we are back we've been discussing the FA Cup we spoken about Tottenham Hotspur

and the financial consequences of potentially getting relegated let's move on to Manchester United

the I keep I've I've been calling them the sleeping giants because you look at their global

status speaking of global status we spoke about global status would Tottenham earlier in the

podcast man United are probably the biggest global brand from an English football perspective

I know they compete with Liverpool I know Liverpool have more trophies than man United

but in terms of just pure brand exposure I think it's fair to say man United have a bigger

brand exposure than Liverpool but the way man United continue to struggle that has been eroding

and Liverpool have been catching up and certainly from a revenue perspective Liverpool have overtaken

man United something that many didn't think you know certainly when FSG were taking over

Liverpool on the brink of administration for example so the longer man United continue to not

be involved in title races continue to not be involved in winning champions leagues I think

that that continues to be a problem for them but at this present point in time I still think

they do have that legacy that that carries them from from a brand perspective now

we've seen the form that they've had they've been the form team in the Premier League since

Michael Caracas come in but I don't think it's just about Michael Caric we have to look beyond

the manager especially in this day and age the days of a Sir Alex Ferguson the days of an

arson venga are long gone where one man specifically the manager of the team and I used the word

manager instead of head coach because a lot of these guys are head coaches now first team coaches

now the manager did a lot more than what they're doing now now a lot of it is compartmentalised

managers or head coaches focus on on pitched stuff and then you've got you know directors

of football sporting directors etc that handle you know stuff from the likes of recruitment to all

of the other stuff involved there so you can't just look at this from a Michael Caric perspective

we'll certainly look at both of their situations in Michael Caric and Jason Wilcox obviously Jason

Wilcox is is a person that has to be important when when you bring up the the conversation of

Manchester United he is of course you know a former professional footballer by his own right but

he's also the director of football at Man United at this present point in time now from a Michael

Caric perspective I think there there are two specific things that you have to look at from

a cultural perspective and how he handles that dressing room and then from a football architecture

perspective as well and then when you couple him with Jason Wilcox I think you also then have to

add in that recruitment pipeline now from a cultural perspective Michael Caric I think he brings

that immediate credibility inside the dressing room being a former man United player being a manager

that has done well at at at at previous jobs yes it would have been in you know in the championship

for example but I do think there is a degree of respectability that he does bring and I think

it's evident in the performances that we've seen from Man United in in recent weeks he obviously

understands Man United's DNA he commands respect from senior players in my opinion if he didn't

command that respect Man United would not be performing the way they have been performing recently

I think he's brought sort of a more stabilized environment

and that sort of glue that cultural glue if I couldn't if I can put it that way for a lack of

better term I think it's invaluable especially after this period of uncertainty that they had

with Ruben Armer and where it felt like he never settled into that position he never settled into

you know that chair of being the man that that was leading or at least was the face of

of the club and trying to drive them forward I think Caric's presence reduces that short term

volatility I think it gives the club a bit of breathing room certainly with how fast he started

then you look at I mentioned as well football architecture from a long-term success perspective I

think that requires a very stabilized structure you've got a manager that has authority or at least

there's the appearance of authority from the outside looking in you also then need a sporting

director who can set recruitment strategy and then obviously you need a technical team that

aligns the coaches, analysts, youth development all together and the person that has to

orchestrate all of this is Jason Wilcox and you look at his CV he's had time at Man City's

Academy he was Man City Academy director and then you look at his work at Southampton

it shows a track record in my opinion of identifying and integrating young talent into first teams

and you look at some of the players that he's brought into Man City and to Southampton obviously

you look at the likes of Romeo Lavier you look at the likes of Oscar Bob and his philosophy

was that of spoiling the first team manager with Academy options and that's arguably what you know

so Jim Radcliffe and his team appear to want for Man United a director who can build a

pipeline of talent that can reduce trying some of market volatility and I'd say

aligns recruitment with a coherent playing identity I still think that's one of the issues for

Man United they've not had a consistent identity for a number of years now and they've been

even if you look at the managers that they're hiring and hired that they've hired and the different

philosophies that each and every one of them have brought that's also been an issue at Tottenham

Hotspur but unfortunately we don't have the time to get into that today but there needs to be a

consistent thread in there and hopefully for them certainly when you've got the director of

football that needs to be a constant you can't be chopping and changing directors of football

if anything you hire your director of football first then they hire your manager that's usually

the ideal situation the third leg of this is recruitment pipeline we've kind of touched on this

a little bit but you know United probably United's problem in recent years has been in consistency

with that recruitment pipeline I think there's been a lack of coherent pathway from the Academy

to the first team yes some players have come through but I've always said man United are one of

the worst developers of talent in the Premier League certainly in recent history you look at

some of the players that come through and hit the ground running like a like a macaida I don't

know if people remember macaida for example he helped man United was the back end of of a season

they were going for a Premier League title and even it extends as far as like a rashford for

example or an Anthony Marciel where man United have these supremely talented players I mean Marciel

was bapé before bapé but players stagnated man United I don't they don't go beyond their talent I

don't see them developing beyond what you know that raw talent that we see from them so and as I

say it's certainly in in recent history you look at then that those struggles they have in

developing talent and then yet insist on bringing in you know young strikers and you're like

that's probably not going to work out for you guys but anyway you know from a man United

perspective then you're looking at a wall cox you're looking at the strength of his scouting you

looking at the youth development and the youth development structures he's been a part of in his

career you look at that ability to spot that undervalued talent you look at the players that

that he has brought in the co-palmers etc that pairing of his eye and and his you know recruitment

ability you pair that with the short term stability that a carrot has brought in I still think

you need to surround carrot with really good support staff to be able to for this plan to work

out really well I'm talking about you know from coaches perspective assistant coaches training

coaches physios fitness guys all of that good stuff I think that man United believe that they can

provide that right structure I think that under this red flip red cliff era there has been that

emphasis on trying to become more more data informed or at least data driven trying to develop a

sustainable pipeline and based on the track record of a wall cox for you know I think it it

demonstrates an ability to identify talent early and integrate it into a coherent pathway united

and they're hoping that that works out I do think that the the reality though is that

work ox record at city and Southampton as impressive as it might be yes he found talent he helped

develop it develop it but at united the problem is not just talent identification it's the ability

to integrate that talent into a winning team and a relentless pressure as I mentioned the

young players that flame out and man United that might start off hot and aren't able to you know

go beyond just their talent the club needs a director who can do two things simultaneously fine

talent and execute high stakes transfers that immediately improve the squad and that's going to

be the balancing act for wall cox is he going to be given enough time time is a luxury at united

and it's it's it's a luxury that they might not have at this present point in time trying to get

back to you know title contention as quickly as possible they seem to be allergic to doing a

full rebuild they keep trying to do patchwork and until they're able to be honest with themselves

and have a proper you know review of where they are as a football club and try and rebuild

this thing properly knowing that it might take you know two three maybe four years to to get it

right instead of trying to patchwork it and every season they they're thinking they that's the

season they're going to be in a title rest I think that might be a recipe for disaster for them but

as a Liverpool fan long may continue that they struggle but as I said they are sleeping giant if

they do decide to wake up and get things right the rest of the league probably need to be worried

because they do have that brand status around the world from a global perspective that I think

is unmatched if they are able to tap into it but obviously we've as I've mentioned other clubs have

been gaining on them some of overtaken them and it might take man United a while to get back to

where they think they should be but first and foremost they need to do it correctly yeah I'm happy

with those topics are there were things that we were looking at that we wanted to discuss obviously

relevant with the FA Cup coming in relevant with the form of man United they're getting to that

stage where it's going to be a decision of whether or not a carrot is their long term future obviously

Wilcox is there I don't expect him to be going anywhere anytime soon and then from a Tottenham

perspective the reality of potential relegation and what that could mean for them I thought was

important to just touch on that a little bit as well as much as I can that's going to do it for

another episode of a tad predictable I do employ you to wrap up your EP or fix at EP or index.com

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