Manifesting Isn’t Delusion, It’s Neuroscience. With Alexis Fernandez

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A listener, production.

I think when done properly,

affirmations are brilliant.

There's so much science behind it.

There is so much data behind it

and how it changes your ability to do harder things,

how it changes your relationship with yourself,

confidence, everything like it's massive.

I think that more people would be into science

if it was just explained in a way

where it's not too dumb down and not too complicated.

Hi, I'm Sarah and welcome to Small Talk.

It's not quite an e-sad line,

but it is what the girls are talking about

and I am very excited today to have Alexis Fernandez

from the do fucking mind pod on.

I'm so happy to be here.

Oh my gosh, I have been listening

and following your content for years now and I love it.

I've been wanting to get you on for,

I think I've been like DMing you back and forth

for a while.

And I'm the worst on my dance

if I've left you like just never answered it's

because I'm so bad at my dance.

So am I.

Which is really funny when I hear people in,

like in media, it's genuinely our job to be our job.

It's our job.

That's why I'm bad at this.

Yes.

Okay, tell us about your podcast though

for people that aren't aware of it

because I also at the top,

which is why it's gonna make sense for this episode as well.

You have a master of neuroscience.

Yes, I do.

Which is so funny.

Well, that's actually how I started the podcast.

So the podcast, it's called Do You Fucking Mind.

It's about neuroscience and psychology.

And I taught, I kind of,

some episodes are heavily psychology based,

some are heavily neuroscience based,

but the aim is to make neuroscience really understandable

just to the lay person.

I think when I was just getting into neuroscience,

it was either way too dumbed down,

and I was like, come on,

I want something a bit more in depth.

Or so technical and convoluted

that you actually needed degree to know

what they were talking about.

So then I started when I was at uni,

and I did my undergrad,

and then years later I returned to do my masters,

and I was absolutely loving it.

And I thought I would get into lecturing

because I thought I'd like, get me on a stage,

get me talking.

You know, I might still do lecturing from down the line.

Something that I've never stopped having a passion for.

So then I started the podcast,

not because I thought this is going to be a job

I can make money off it.

We're just kind of the best way to start it in a way

because there's none of that pressure

on making a source of income.

And I'm just going to practice

how I'm going to teach about psychology

and the brain on the podcast.

For two reasons, one, it'll get me used

to what it would be like to lecture.

And two, it would be a really good way

for me to understand where the gaps in my knowledge are.

If I'm like teaching, that's the best way to learn.

So I started it.

And then the podcast kind of had like a life of its own

and it took off.

Yeah.

And then that just ended up being,

I'm like, well, I guess this is my version of lecturing.

Yeah, I just, with lots of swearing and to the masses.

But it is, it's like you make these complicated topics

understandable, like digestible, which is.

I think that more people would be into science

if it was just explained in a way

where it's not too dumb down and not too complicated

because then there's also a lot of people

in the science field who do not like public speaking,

do not like, they're very like,

don't get me out there talking to people.

I just want to focus on my own studies.

I wonder, so then like so much of that information

is so fascinating, but it's not really shared to the masses

because they're not really that social.

They're like, I'm just going to be here studying this thing.

So it's good to have some people that are like,

love what you do, let me talk about it.

Let's like discuss it, let's bring it to the masses.

For sure, because I also think both neuroscience

and psychology, there is such a thirst for it online as well.

Like we've just seen that especially over the last couple of years

and we'll get into it as well.

But people are dying to understand it,

but no one's really explaining it like, except like,

and then people do explain it,

but they don't have to crazy.

Yeah, like, oh, no, totally, totally, I know.

And then like, they'll like run a question through chatJPT,

but chatJPT is just pulling the information from like,

pop psychology, like columns that have been written.

That's not really.

So it's a bit like, oh, where do you go?

And this is exactly what I wanted to talk about today

because something I'm deeply fascinated with is manifestation.

And what we'd like to do on small talk is kind of take trends

and conversations that are dominating online

and explore that little bit and break it down.

And this is what I've been waiting for,

and waiting for you to do it.

But I was like, I think I believe in it wholeheartedly.

I think I've done it in ways without realizing throughout my life,

but I don't actually understand the science around it.

And I think it gets a sometimes a bit of a bad rap on TikTok.

And I'm like, no, I want to understand this.

Totally, totally, totally.

Yeah.

What's your like gut take on how things,

how manifestation is currently being spoken about?

So I feel like there's a lot of, okay,

there's a lot of actual science around, you know,

manifestation and affirmations which we'll get into.

And then there's a lot of, you know,

this could equate to this, but it actually isn't really science.

It's not saying it's true or not true,

but there's a lot of like anecdotal evidence kind of thing.

And then there's a lot of just woo hard

that people say this is science,

but there actually is no science behind it.

But for me personally, I've always been big

on the concept of manifestation

because even before I started my undergrad,

I remember back in the day,

I think it was 2006 or something watching the secret.

And I was like, oh my God.

Oh my God.

Yes.

And that's very simplified.

When you look at other like books that have been written,

even by the people that were on the secret

that I'd like delved into,

because I thought, oh my God, imagine if just with your mind,

you could create.

So that probably was one of the things

that actually got me originally interested in psychology,

possibly, I don't know if I can like thread it all together,

but I remember having this fascination for the idea

that maybe with your mind you could create

something out of thin air.

And then it's actually obviously deeper than that.

And I don't think just thinking alone

can create something out of thin air,

but I've applied the tools of manifestation in my life,

how they speak about it on the secret and in other books.

And I understand kind of the psychology

and the science behind how the mind is working

and it makes a lot of sense

from a neurological perspective

why you actually can manifest things,

but it's because you're actually taking

a lot more action than you realize.

So that's what I want to talk about.

That's what I'm exactly.

Actually, we should explain the secret as well,

because I feel like we might have a few younger listeners

that are also like fucking talking about the secret.

But that was this like,

it's sold over 30 million copies.

Oh, yes, yes.

It was Rhonda Byrne.

Yes.

And this Aussie like rogue woman who just was like,

I discovered this.

I discovered it.

I discovered it.

And it's not actually secret,

because it was already all these books about it.

I know, but I remember my mom used to talk about it

all the time too.

And she had this like three step instruction

and it was to ask, believe, receive,

to ask, believe, receive it.

Yeah, yeah.

And it was that simple.

And it was that simple.

Guys, actually, believe it,

and it will be in your garage and you will receive it.

Tomorrow and the universe knows no time and all of that.

Like, that was all this stuff.

Obviously, just sitting there thinking,

oh, I'm gonna ask for this thing

and then I'm gonna believe it.

And then I've got, you know, like,

it's so much more complicated than that.

Yes, you know.

It also has been around a really long time.

Like, what that really is is the law of attraction.

Yes, correct.

And it, like, that was like a,

that originally I think came from a spiritual movement

back in the 19th century.

And then it like was popularized again in the 70s and 60s,

but in a lot of more like wellness conversation.

And then TikTok again has given it this rebirth.

But it does get looped in with like astrology

and energy conversation and things like that.

Do you think there's a difference?

Or is it, I think there is a difference definitely

because if you talk about manifesting,

like I'm just going to manifest something out of thin air,

then there isn't too much science that can back that.

Not to say that it's not true,

but as far as science,

which is literally just studying what is

and do we have data and evidence to back it,

there isn't that much.

But when we talk about the law of attraction,

there's a lot to back that.

So there's a bit of a difference

even in the law of attraction and manifestation.

That's why I almost tend to prefer the term

the law of attraction,

more so than manifestation

because I think of manifesting as like this like potion boom.

And then I can manifest something out of nothing.

But when you think about the law of attraction,

even within the brain,

it's this concept of like attracts like.

And even from like a neurological

or a cellular level,

that is very true within the brain.

So if you can think,

how am I attracting

or the opposite of attraction,

what like deflecting or repelling,

then once you understand how you attract

and repel things in your life,

whether you want to or not,

then you start to really understand

the basis of how you are operating

your default mode network,

you're operating system

that we all have programmed in us

based on our upbringing,

based on our experiences,

actually we'll determine

what we attract or repel in our lives.

That makes complete sense.

I've always thought of it in an energy way.

I used to joke,

we were saying at the end of last year

that I kept talking about

how I'm going to change my aura.

Like I'm going to just improve my aura

because like that,

when you make that mental shift,

it genuinely is a more fun time out.

It is genuinely a more time,

like more fun at work or whatever it is.

And it's just the energy you're giving out.

Yes,

but there's a lot to be said about that energy

because how is it possible that

when a stranger walks into a room

even if you've never met them,

sometimes their energy is so attractive

and I'm not talking about physical attraction.

I'm talking about this magnetic energy

that some people carry with them.

It is an aura.

And there is a difference between that

and someone who's like got a really flat energy

who's probably shut themselves off massively.

And that's most of the time it's unintentional.

They don't mean to do it,

but there's things going on,

thoughts going on

or repeated behaviors or patterns

that keep them very shut off.

And they're the people that think,

you know, like no one's nice to me.

Everyone's like,

they feel very rejected in the world,

but they are also very shut off

from an energy level versus the opposite.

Can I ask as well?

Like when we're talking about manifestation,

how do you define it

before we even get into like the rules of it

and everything?

Like, is there a way for people

that are new to this topic to understand

that it is this like when you believe in something,

it will show up in your real life?

Yes, yes.

So that's ultimately the basis of it,

like the belief of it.

This is why,

and we will talk about affirmations in a second,

this is why I have a love hate relationship

with affirmations.

I think when done properly,

affirmations are brilliant.

There's so much science behind it,

there's so much data behind it

and how it changes, you know,

your ability to do harder things,

how it changes your relationship with yourself,

confidence, everything like it's massive,

when done properly.

And the basis of how do you determine

if an affirmation is done properly

versus if it's not is the belief?

Do I believe this statement?

Because it's all well and good to say to someone,

you want to be rich,

look at the mirror and say,

I'm a millionaire every morning.

If you don't believe it,

if you're living in poverty,

if you have like debt,

you know, debt collectors calling you,

you're not going to believe it,

you're just not going to believe it,

you know, no matter how hard you try.

So you've got to think,

what is the most believable statement

to get me out of this feeling of hopelessness?

So I call it the latter effect

to get you into a position of actually,

like attracting a better life for yourself.

And this is like from a psychology standpoint.

So you think what is the next best believable statement

I can make that feels good,

that I could say again and again and again,

where I go from feeling hopeless and fearful

to feeling at least just that little bit better.

So for example, if you are in debt,

you can say, I can get myself out of debt.

I am capable of making a change.

That's a statement you can believe, right?

It's believable.

So I'm capable of making a change.

So because you start telling yourself,

this is not, it's not all doom and gloom.

I'm not screwed for the rest of my life.

Then you start feeling a bit more, okay, aware.

Then you start seeing opportunities

because you're working from a proactive mindset.

So you start thinking, oh, okay, this person spoke to me.

Maybe I could get a job here.

Maybe the next one is, I'm making more money

than I have in the past.

I'm now making what, that's believable.

Doesn't have to be a lot of money.

And then so do you know what I mean?

Then you start laddering, laddering, laddering.

And then before you know it,

you say money comes to me easily.

It's coming to me easily.

Look at all these examples of all this time.

You know, it's easy to meet people

that offer opportunities for me.

And then because you've got that thing,

it's easy to meet people.

It's easy, you know, I get along with people,

then people mirror that.

They mirror that and they mirror that.

Your energy, you just don't realize how much your energy

will determine how someone interacts with you.

So if you've got this open energy,

they're going to be interacting really openly.

They'll be like, oh, you've got a great,

hey, maybe you should come and do this for me.

That's how it starts.

And then of course, then you think,

I'm a millionaire before you know it.

Yes, but it requires all these steps.

That is beforehand.

So that makes so much more sense.

It's way more practical.

You wouldn't look in the mirror and be like,

I'm going to be a CEO.

You're going to be like, I'm going to get an entry-level job.

Exactly.

Exactly.

And you say, you know, networking is enjoyable for me.

I like networking.

I like making it.

So you start like that.

And then doors are opening left, right,

and sent in.

You're seeing them because most of our experience

is based on our perception of the world.

Two people can live in the same world

and have a very different experience.

One person perceives it as a certain way.

Positive things, everyone's lovely.

People can talk to them.

And the other person is very shut off from the world

and they have no opportunities.

And I'm not talking about people

that are literally born into like really terrible scenarios.

I'm talking if you have the same starting position.

Just how you view the world can determine

what you get out of it.

That's a really good point.

And I think I like coming at it

from the law of attraction angle.

Maybe even, yeah, I agree.

Maybe even a little bit more than manifested.

Because I do worry sometimes when I see it on TikTok

that it is a little bit oversimplified

so that if people are watching that

and maybe they've been in like a depressive state,

they think, well, that's now me.

Yeah, you know, because that's what I'm thinking.

So that's what I'm manifesting.

And like this is my future now.

Exactly.

Whereas this is like, it gives you a little bit more control.

I think it does.

Over the energy.

Yes, because you want to look at your brain as a tool

and your brain is the tool to help you access this life, you know?

So you want to think like, how am I thinking?

What are my thoughts without?

Also, it's not like if I have one bad negative thought

that's not going to ruin it for you at all, it's fine.

It's you want to think like positive thoughts

in general do carry so much more energy and momentum.

So if you can find that positive thought that feels good

and then you think, well, like attraction, like,

so if I can stay in this positive mindset,

this is why gratitude is also really beneficial

because gratitude keeps you in this positive state

for a lot longer than a lot of short-lived positive feelings

that we have.

So you think, I can't feel good this morning.

Okay, what else can I be grateful?

That makes me feel better than.

So the more of this positive thought you can have,

as long as that's kind of the main thing you're focusing on,

you're going to have fearful thoughts,

you're going to have your anxious moments,

you're going to have your moments of,

oh, I feel like an imposter,

I'm not good enough or whatever, that's okay.

You just want to think of care, felt this way,

now let's overwrite it with something

that actually feels good now, it's about striking that balance.

No one has this, you know, even you look at people

that you really admire, they still have anxious thoughts,

they still have like, self-doubt, but it's okay.

Like, don't think that the people that have exactly

what you want to have are there

because their mind is flawless, that's not the case.

It's just, when I do have an anxious thought,

how do I, what do I do about it?

Do I let myself spiral or do I acknowledge it

for what it is, name it to tame it

and then do something about it, you know?

That's how you meant it.

I love that.

Yes, that's like all of the things to talk about.

That is so good.

It's like putting a little PR spin on it, you see?

Yeah, I love that.

That's like one of the biggest things,

even when it comes to like, lower attraction

and all of that,

when you start to have a negative emotion,

this whole idea of naming it to tame it,

it's like when you shed the light on it,

it can't grow anymore.

Like, you say I'm feeling anxious,

people think, oh, well, if I say I'm feeling anxious,

it's gonna grow.

But no, if you just say I feel anxious

and if you can ideally say why?

Like, and sometimes you think,

I don't know what set it off,

but then you could think, actually,

it was that email that I read this morning,

it pissed me off, I think someone's angry at me

or maybe it was like the tone that my friend used

and I just don't know if they're in a bad mood with that.

So like, if you can identify the trigger

and just name it,

then you can start to rationalize and already,

and like from a neurological point of view,

when we have these thoughts anxiety,

that's like your limbic system,

your amygdala kind of firing,

it's your fight flight or fright, you know.

When you name it verbally, ideally out loud,

you've got your prefrontal cortex

that starts communicating with that brain region.

That is your like processing,

like logical reasoning,

it's your forward planning,

it's, you know, it's,

where your logic really stems from.

When you can say something out loud,

that logic starts to talk down to the amygdala

and it's kind of saying,

okay, calm down, we brought logic into it.

So you yourself start talking yourself down

off the ledge just by naming it.

You make it, it's almost like you can put it into a container,

it exists,

but it's not taking over your day anymore,

it actually like comes down.

So they did studies with people with like major fears of spiders

and the ones that did name it to tame it,

were the ones that overcame their fear of spiders,

even more than the people that would look at a spider saying,

I'm not scared, I'm not scared, I'm not scared,

more so than those people.

That is fascinating.

Do you know what else I think?

When we're talking about that,

the way we name it to tame it

and the way we're talking about things,

something that made me think of,

and it's quite subconscious,

but I know I got into a bad trap for a while

when I was in like my early 20s and I'd be dating.

And I would say my dating stories are disaster.

Like I always have the funniest dating stories,

I always have the most fucked up ones

and I kind of made it a bit.

And like being on podcast and stuff,

it became part of my content.

It is.

You had these fucked up dates.

And I got to a point that I realized

I needed to stop saying that

because I was attracting that subconsciously.

Of course, of course.

Yeah, because it's in and it does become part of your identity

to the extent that even though like let's say

like I actually want a healthy relationship,

but you keep banging on about this being part of your persona

that there's almost like the death of the old self.

You're like, while I want this,

I have to say goodbye to this side of me

that while it caused me pain,

it also was my source of like comedy,

comedy, it's my comedic relief for my own life.

And it was a great topic to talk about.

And now I've got to talk about it as if it's in the past.

And I've got to be willing to forge this new path

where I can't, you know, a lot of people,

like I can't be the victim of my own circumstances anymore.

I can't be complaining about this.

A lot of people do love to complain

because it's a safety net.

And they don't realize that, you know,

if I really want to say change in this area,

I've got to, because like attracts like,

if I'm complaining about something,

it's going to bring in more things that I can complain about.

I'm going to have my focus on being reactive

instead of being proactive.

But it also bleeds into other people.

Of course.

You can see if someone's like complaining a lot

even if it's at, you know, at work or in a friendship group

or whatever it is, it's tangible, of course, to the morale.

And it's not to say, because a lot of people think,

like my podcast, when I talk about this stuff,

it's, I love a good vent to get everyone around.

I'm not something yet.

No, I'm not saying to you.

No, I am the, no, I am the dark cloud of thought.

Yes, like I am not someone that's like,

Oh, don't complain about your day.

Don't whatever.

It's, it's the, when is it too much now?

You know, vent, venting is actually really healthy.

If you can get it off your chest,

it becomes an issue if it then becomes complaining,

complaining, complaining.

You know, like, like I said, you can name it,

you can vent, get it out of your system.

Those things are good for you.

But when does it start?

When does it go from like, I felt that relief

to being something I'm leaning back on as my protective mechanism

and I'm not getting ahead in life?

You know, so it's like that fine line.

Do the vent, have the session and now think,

all right, I've vented.

Now what am I going to do about this situation?

I love to vent.

It's one of the funniest times when you vent with your friends,

when you would have it.

If you were hilarious, it's comedy, it's great.

But as long as it stays like that,

but you know those friends that always come,

there's always something going on wrong constantly.

There's nothing.

And then you're seeing it literally manifest

quite unquote in their life.

Nothing's going right for them.

You know, and it's really tough.

Yeah.

And like people who always manage to attract

the wrong partner again and again and again,

it's because they're not willing to really open their eyes

and be like, these are the red flags

that I'm refusing to identify as red flags

and see them in the second person,

third person, fourth person that I'm dating.

I do think the first step,

if we look at how to manifest in these rules of it,

the first step must be headspace.

Like you have to have enough self-awareness

to be able to do it in the first place.

Self-awareness is huge.

It's huge.

Because there's a difference between,

like there's a lot of people have this intellectualisation,

but no awareness.

So they're like, it's a scathing man, like God.

Like they understand everything.

You know that, it's like that friend

that is in the worst relationship in the world,

but then they give you a relationship advice

and you're like, bro, what?

Like, no, I know.

And they give good advice too.

And you're like, take a look at the mirror.

Yeah, this the other day there was one of a,

I was like a friend of a friend and they said to me

and they're like, I don't mean for this to sound terrible,

but at the end of this diabolical conversation,

she looks at us and goes,

I think I'm the most self-aware person I know.

And apparently everyone just was like, what?

I'm like, no, you're not.

But that's an issue.

An issue.

I think because I understand how psychology works,

then I'm self-aware.

No, that's not how it works.

Some people like, you don't have to understand

every single in and out of that.

I know psychologists who are not self-aware.

You know, like it takes a completely different skill.

You know, so it really takes every time.

And a good way, a good exercise is becoming self-aware.

Every time you criticize someone or ask yourself,

have I done that?

Very simple.

And then you start becoming, oh my God, I have.

Oh my God.

Like maybe I did that in the past,

and so you actually become a bit more sympathetic as well

when you become more self-aware.

That's the empathy, right?

It is really cool.

Yes, I find that really interesting

because I also think, as well as being self-aware,

to be able to do it in a productive way,

you'd have to have a pretty good control over your nervous system.

Yeah, definitely, definitely.

So I think, you know, and you just get better as you go.

You start off small and then you kind of increase it.

But when it comes to, you know,

lower-rotraction and manifesting and creating things for yourself,

becoming self-aware, just in the sense of like,

don't be delusional.

Number one.

Just like, you know, I was going to say,

is there a difference between manifesting

and this delulu trend?

Yes.

So I think, I like it when people say,

be delusional in the sense of have big dreams.

I think that's good.

Yes.

So be delusional, quite unquiet delusional.

I don't think it's technically delusional

if it's delusional.

It's delulu, it's different to delusional.

I think, like if they say, you know,

I want to create this for myself and have this life and have it.

And they say, you know, be delusional for 30 days

and see what happens.

Like have that crazy belief in yourself

and then see what happens.

That's good.

If you can put yourself in the shoes

of what your life could be like in the bed,

but I'm talking about delusion in the sense of you thinking,

for example, let's say,

let's say you've started a podcast

and it's a piece of shit, right?

And you're saying,

oh, for 30 days, it's going to be a bit,

but you're refusing to take feedback.

You're refusing to let like people,

you know, tell you what's good or what's bad about it.

You're refusing to ask people, listen,

it's not grown, what could I do better?

What could, that's delusional because you're like,

I do have avenues where I could get feedback.

I do have resources where I could improve,

but I'm telling myself it's just amazing

when I don't have the expertise

that I'm telling myself I have.

I think this, you know, where people say,

you know, act as if and then it will happen.

Yes, but to an extent, you also don't want to come across

as if you're a total novice,

you should be open to feedback,

you should be open to having mentors help you,

you should be seeking out advice

and help from the right sources.

And I think that that's really important.

When you go in as a novice and you pretend

that you're as good as people who have worked the asses

for years, then you come across as just a dickhead

and you're not helping yourself either.

With like practical steps,

if you were like, okay, how do I start with this?

Where do I start with this?

This is where I find online very interesting

because there's so many different methods

and you're like, wait, is this really complicated

or is this really easy?

Because some videos are like,

yeah, you just kind of have the energy

and you're already there and you're done.

And others are like, you have to write it down 57 times,

whisper it into a cup, you know, put it under your pillow.

There's like 57 techniques and I'm wondering,

I'm like, you'll see the comments

and people swear by some of those

are more complicated techniques.

But is it just because when they're doing that technique,

they must believe it so much, like wholeheartedly?

Yes.

I think what it is, I personally don't think

there's a specifically a right or wrong way

if writing it down 57 times works for you then do it.

But I think the reason why some people swear by it so much

is because one of the main things is clarity,

like no where you're headed.

You don't have to know exactly exactly

but like no where you're headed.

Don't just focus on what you don't want.

So I think when you're writing it down the 57 times,

you're gaining more and more clarity as you do it.

Also, I physically writing instead of just saying,

you're using more areas if your brain

to invest into this statement,

you're writing, it's the movement, it's this.

People always say writing is always better than saying

or even typing.

So if you have the time, write things down,

like you're more intentional about that statement.

So if just speaking it is enough for you, speak it or think it.

But that's why a lot of people do swear

by the writing and the repetition

because it helps solidify that belief in your mind.

That makes sense.

I think journaling is the best way

that they're untangled, totally feelings.

Totally.

So to put it simply, I just say, don't overcomplicate it.

Kind of focus on one or two things at a time.

If you try and focus on too many things to create,

your energy is going to be very scattered.

Your attention will be very scattered

and then your life is going to be a result of that.

Very scattered.

You're going to be kind of all over the place.

And I myself can say that, yes, my podcast has done well.

Yes, but my assistant Shania is the first person

to admit that I can be so unorganized.

Like, sure, I've got the best idea.

I've got this, I've got that.

And then I shoot myself in the foot

because I'm spreading myself way too thin

with this idea and this idea and this idea

with the podcast when I had it.

That's kind of all I was thinking about.

And then it was going really well

because all my energy was going into either

my unit degree or the podcast.

It was that or that.

So it was really easy for me to like manifest and grow

and grow and grow and grow and grow.

If you're talking about law of attraction

because I was in such a good flow state

when it came to creating the podcast,

I was loving what I did.

Every time I did it, I was in a good mood.

I wasn't thinking, oh, am I going to get full of it?

I just loved it.

So I was coming from a place of pure passion.

I also was really receptive to feedback.

Oh, I love this episode more than that one

because you talked about that.

Great, I'll do more of that.

I'm going to do more of that.

I'd look at the data of my episodes,

not in like, oh, this one did poorly,

but I'm like, why did that one do better than that one?

I'll do more of those episodes.

So I started, so yes, it's the law of attraction

in the sense of like, I'm open to this feedback

and I'm feeling good and because when I feel good,

I create better content.

I speak a lot better than when I'm tripping on my words

when I'm having a bad, anxious day.

So yes, your mood is very important,

but it's also this mix between, I'm open.

I'm open to suggestions.

I'm open to the feedback.

I know what I want, but I'm also an open book, you know?

If that makes sense, it sounds a bit broad,

but it's this idea of, I also have to allow

for opportunities to come my way and be open to them

because if I'm so hell-bent on it has to be this.

I might close many doors off for myself.

Like you might start a podcast,

but your actual, the thing where you actually

really strike gold ends up being in a YouTube channel.

But it took you starting a podcast to get there.

I love that you've said this

because I feel like this has helped me make sense

or something I haven't been able to quite put my finger

on for a while.

And I feel like when people ask about career things,

especially like, oh, did you always know

you wanted to end up in podcasting?

And it's like, no, but I always knew I was in the right field.

And it was like, what were your steps to take that?

It's like, I actually can't give that specific advice

because it was never about a particular end goal.

It was about something bigger.

It was about a feeling and more than anything.

And I think what manifestation feels to me more like

is moving away from the thing

and focusing on being in the feelings.

Yes, yes, definitely.

The feeling to simplify like crazy,

it all comes down to the feeling.

It all comes down to the feeling.

So for example, if you say,

like, let's say, okay, let's say I want to have a career

where I feel like I am creative.

I feel like I am on a stage.

I love to perform.

I want to be creative.

I want to, like you just mentioned

all the things that you enjoy doing.

There's probably several career options for you

where you could make money that would tick that box,

which is a good thing.

So when I say know what you want,

more so the feeling, more so why do I want this?

What does it make me feel?

What do I like about it?

Do I like having a social job?

Do I want to be left on my own?

Do I like having these things?

Because I used to want to be an actress.

And then I thought this is the be all end all

because I love public speaking.

I love being on a stage.

I love doing all of that.

But the career just wasn't working out for me.

I just don't think I had it, to be honest.

But I was like, I did the same thing.

Oh my God, I'm so glad I got out of that.

Love people that do it.

But I'm like, that just ultimately wasn't right for me.

But at the time, I did think about the law for attraction.

And I'm like, but I have to make that work.

I have to, and I'm like, try and visualize

and try and imagine and try.

But it just wasn't working instead of focusing

on the feeling.

Had I focused on the feeling earlier,

I probably would have still gladly exited that industry

and found something for me that worked better than ever

that was having a career where I work for myself

on my terms with the podcast.

Do you know what I mean?

Now I look back and I think had I known

that this could be a job for me,

I would have, wouldn't have blinked

about leaving the acting career.

Not for a second, because I love my life so much.

Sometimes you think that the idea

that you initially have for yourself is the best one ever.

But there's sometimes 10 better ideas out there

if you're open to it, if you focus on the feeling.

So no, what does it feel like?

What does the dream life feel like?

It feels peaceful.

I wake up with peace of mind.

I feel good.

I feel, I can be spontaneous.

I feel excited.

I feel like I have an abundance where I can like,

shout dinner for my friends and start that feeling.

That feeling of like, you know,

and you start increasing, increasing, focusing on that feeling,

what can I do today to generate more of that feeling?

You'd be amazed at if you did that for a week,

how many things come your way, how many open doors you see

that were probably always there,

but you never even saw them, because of your bias.

I really love that,

because it also teaches you to trust your gut a little bit.

Yes, because I feel like,

especially when I was starting out in my career

and people would often ask now like,

how did you know?

Because I just did a bunch of internships, essentially.

And everyone was like, how did you know which ones to do?

And like, what would end up where?

And it's like, I didn't.

You kind of just, is this opportunity,

going to get me closer to the feeling?

Yes, no.

But everything was a bit of just testing it out,

to see how I felt once I was there.

That's what I always say to people.

People said, do I do this to it?

And I said, do you know what?

It's a numbers game.

See what sticks.

Do as much as you can within relevance.

Obviously, if someone offers you an opportunity

and you're like, oh, no, no, no, like that,

would hate that, obviously don't.

But there's so many opportunities out there,

and more is more especially if you're young.

Don't think about funneling down yet.

Like, get the experience, go and do that trip.

You know, have all your possessions in one suitcase

and see how you can live like that.

You know what I mean?

Like, do all those things that feel a little bit scattered?

My 20s, I was a bit of a gypsy.

I was a bit all over the place.

Yes, I studied.

Yes, I did work that lived in Paris, lived in LA.

Like, it was all over the place.

But it all came together in the end.

Everything I learned in all those avenues

has served me in the job I'm in now.

I do think that's that trust in the universe process, though,

because if you, it doesn't really matter what the journey was.

If you decided at the very beginning of it,

what that feeling was, you're going to go after.

Yes.

Then it is, that's how you can trust everything falls

and it works.

And the idea of trusting in the process

is actually very, very good

from like a psychologist standpoint.

Because if you don't trust in the process

and you're thinking, this isn't going to work,

I don't know the final end game, so it's not going to work.

Then what are you?

You're going to be really conservative.

You're going to be shut off.

You're going to be fearful.

You're going to be like, oh, I've got to be careful.

But if you trust in quite unquote the process,

you're going to think, regardless, it will work out for me.

Even if this exact thing doesn't,

it's going to open a door and it's going to be exact.

And if you've got that mindset,

someone says, hey, do you want to come to this event

tomorrow night?

You think, yeah, sure, you go there

and then you think, you know what?

I'm just going to start chatting to this person.

You start chatting, they're like, oh, I know a person

who you could probably co-host with.

And before you know, you're like, oh, it took two yeses.

And here I'm having a conversation with someone

I wouldn't have met in my wildest dreams.

I'd be amazed at how quickly doors will open for you.

People love to connect.

People love to collaborate if you're open to it.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

There was another thing I wanted to ask you about

that I have done for the last two years.

And we made it a bit of like a fun thing to do

with friends at the side of the event.

Actually, last year kind of blew my mind with it.

How beneficial I found it.

We made vision boards.

Yes.

We got 57 magazines out, cut them all out,

frame to them and put them on the back of our doors

for the rest of the year.

And most of it came true.

And I think it's because when you're cutting out things,

it's obviously not going to be specific enough,

but it definitely was the vibe of the year.

Yeah.

Yeah, it does because you're looking at it,

you're imagining yourself in that.

If you can see something,

it doesn't matter if it's outrageous to someone else.

If you believe it, that's all that matters.

That's why I said there were a lot of people.

Sometimes if your dreams are that outrageous,

as long as it's believable to you,

it can be a secret.

You don't have to share it.

Because sometimes if you're still not that confident

around other people,

sometimes sharing your dreams with people who are like,

they mean well, but they really,

you know these people that just shut you down,

even the ones that love you,

they just shut you down,

because they're so like set in their ways,

then if you don't have that strength in yourself yet,

it's you shut it down as well.

You'll agree with them.

You're going to side with people that you look up to too much.

So I say to them, have your vision board

and if you're not confident to share it, do not share it,

because the main thing is belief in yourself

and in that thing.

And if it takes not sharing it yet,

then that's what it takes.

If it takes just having it,

like you said,

just on the back of your door and never sharing it,

don't do it.

Some people prefer to share it

because they're like, okay, now it's believable to you.

They're like, how do they believe it?

They've got a good, yeah,

if you've got a good network of people

that also believe in you

and are going to push you, share it.

But we all know who we can share things with

and who we can't.

We all know who's going to support us

and who's going to try and shut it down.

So just be mindful of that.

And keep it believable to you

because when you keep saying that image,

if you can see yourself being there,

you're like, yep, yep, yep.

I can say that happening

because Chanel and I did vision boards.

We did an episode on this like a year and a half ago.

And it was so good.

We went to office works for office works

and it's just sponsor us

because we're here all the time.

And we were like printing out all these photos

and they were entering like four cents of photo,

by the way.

So we printed out all these photos.

We're cutting them out,

doing these vision boards.

We're in the library in the city,

turning them out.

I love that.

I love that.

It was so good.

But it was so intentional too.

It was so intentional.

And I actually did,

I mean, I ended up having kids last year.

So that really threw a spanner in the works

for a lot of the things.

But all the things that weren't wins,

no, like a twin job.

So the Euro trip did not happen.

By the way, I did not manifest that.

But like went to the Formula One

and never been, went to the AO,

went to all these things

and like, by invitation for a lot of them.

So it wasn't like,

Katie AO, I paid for,

but like the Formula One,

I couldn't get a ticket,

it had sold out and then I got invited to go.

And that was one thing that I always wanted to do.

Then there were certain things where I was like,

I want to manifest sold out live shows.

They all sold out.

I want it, like things like that.

It was so good to have.

And we put it up in the office.

And every time we'd walk in,

we're like, okay, yeah, yeah.

You just remind yourself of that's where,

that's what I'm working towards.

That's it every morning.

You get that racehead of like,

yep, that's the priority.

That's the priority.

You keep reinforcing.

But I think it's nice

that we were saying like the feeling,

but you also have to be specific

within the feeling.

Because I remember when we first started doing it,

my friends and I, we were just started pulling out things

for the magazines that we thought were aesthetic

and that would look the nicest on the vision board.

And then we kind of all looked at each other

and we were like,

this looked nice, but I don't really know what this means.

Exactly.

So there's a difference between a mood board

and a vision board.

Yes, a mood board.

And that's a lot.

Exactly.

And then we had to go in and ask,

we had to write down.

We were like, okay, what are the goals for the year?

So we can find photos like this is too vague.

This is too vague.

And like, I don't want to sound like we're,

like I'm contradicting myself

because I was saying,

don't get too specific.

And now I'm saying, be specific.

So what I mean by don't get too specific is,

I don't want you to come up with the most specific

five-year plan ever,

where you potentially shut out

all these other opportunities.

If we're talking about something like this one-off event

here, this one-off event there,

of course you can be specific.

Like you can't get broader than I want to go to

like the final of whatever, you know,

like that's pretty specific.

So you can put something like that down there.

But if we're talking about something like career,

where there are many opportunities

and where there are, where really that,

you've got to ask yourself,

why do I want this career?

What would it give me?

And then when you can answer the questions

of what it could give you,

then you think, well, can I potentially fit that

into other career options as well?

You know, you always have,

it always comes down to the feeling of,

what would this thing give me?

And why do I want that thing so much?

And sometimes it is like, no,

I have to go to the finals of the NRL.

Full stop, I manifest that.

Fine, you know?

But if we're talking about career,

why was I so hellbent on acting

when it turns out there's a career that I'm now,

I mean, that I love way more than the other one?

You know what I mean?

Just be mindful to not shut out other opportunities.

Saying I want to go to the final of this thing

is not shutting out other opportunities.

So that's what I talk about

specific versus broadening your horizons a bit.

That makes sense.

I also think you have to factor in

the fact that you never really know what life's

going to throw at you.

Like, as you were just saying, like you, having twins.

Yes, exactly.

Is there a way that you recommend

maybe to help with that self awareness as well

of checking in or like how often should we be checking in

with ourselves and adjusting the manifestations

that need it?

Well, I think always check with yourself

and this will help people's anxiety as well.

Always, ultimately, focus on what you can control.

Because there's many things that we can't control.

We can't control if our partner's going to love us forever.

Sounds really grim, but we can't.

We can't control if we're going to get fired tomorrow.

We can't control what the economy does.

We can't, there's a lot that we cannot control.

But I can control, let's look at the partner thing,

for example, I can control how I show up as a partner.

I can control if I'm going to be a jealous psychopath

or if I'm going to be this really beautiful safe space

for my partner.

I can control how healthy a portion of my relationship is,

which then probably will influence

how good the relationship is.

But ultimately, can I stop them from leaving me?

No, but there's many things I can do that is within my control

that can improve the chance of thing

being the best thing ever when it comes to work.

Do I rock up, do the bare minimum, and then be pissed off

that I'm not getting a piece of the pie,

then whatever, and be just bitter?

Or am I rocking up and being creative

and doing this and doing that

and looking where opportunities are and whatever?

There's a lot within your control

that can influence how the rest of the world

then treats you and responds.

But then you always have to factor in that regardless,

there are going to be curveballs in my life,

and that's not within my control.

If I only focus on what I can do best,

then it means that I'm resilient

when a curveball does come my way, and I'm prepared.

I'm educated, I've been educating myself, I'm resilient,

I can bounce back, I'm working on my mental health,

so I don't spiral when something bad goes down.

All these things, then even when things do come our way

that's not within our control,

I've got a good foundation,

and I can pivot and pivot and pivot.

That's I think what it comes down to also.

I really like that.

The other element of this that I wanted to ask,

and is it different or is it all tied up together

is visualization as a tool?

Yes, no, it's tied in together.

I think it is tied in together,

because visualization, again, when you visualize,

it becomes more real for you.

So again, is it realistic for me?

Visualization, the part of the brain that takes up

like that deals with the visual system,

it's more than a quarter of your brain,

it's about a third of your brain.

That deals with everything visual,

including imagining images.

So there's a little lobes at the back.

It's a huge part of your brain.

So the influence that the visual system has on your brain

and on your mind and your thoughts

and everything like that is we can't measure

how big that influence is.

So when you can sit down and visualize something again,

as long as it's realistic to you, is it believable?

Then visualization really starts to solidify that belief in you.

That when you visualize it becomes real

and then separate to just visualizing something

happening for you, you want to visualize

going through the motions as yourself.

So it's not, let's say you're someone

who's normally quite timid and you've got an event.

Someone who doesn't use visualization might think,

oh, well, I was really anxious in the last event

that I went to.

So immediately you're thinking,

I'm going to be anxious at this event, of course, right?

If you use visualization, you think,

I'm going to imagine walking into that space

and feeling calm.

I'm going to imagine being able to just stand

by a group of people and just say,

hi, I don't have to start a conversation.

I could just imagine myself saying hi.

So then because you've visualized what that feels like,

then you've almost done this motor rehearsal

of walking in, talking in front.

Like you rehearse it for yourself.

You have to talk in front of a group of people at work.

You visualize yourself doing it

and you go through the motions

so you've been there before in the mind

and then you go there in reality.

And then the same goes for athletes.

A lot of athletes use this visual motor rehearsal

and they found that people that use visual motor rehearsal

perform much better

than those who just do the physical training.

So if you do training plus visualization,

you improve a lot better.

The only time that that doesn't work

is if you actually don't know how to do the thing.

So like you actually have to know,

you can't visualize doing a periwet

if you've never done it and then you're going to nail it.

Like you actually have to know how to do it,

but the more you visualize it,

you actually strengthen the motor pathways to the muscles.

Wow.

As long as you know how to do it correctly,

because you don't want to strengthen the wrong ones,

but once you can do something,

visualize again and again,

shooting a basket into a hoax and then you visualize

or like whatever it is, any movement,

it actually does strengthen the neural pathways.

That's fascinating.

That's fascinating.

Is it because something I always like as a kid

would kind of get in trouble for,

but I do think this was when I was saying earlier

in the episode that I think I've done versions

of manifesting throughout my life.

And it was daydreaming.

Oh my God.

Like I just was the biggest.

I just like all the time.

She daydreams, Alexa's daydreams too much.

So I'm like,

it was.

I go on walks.

I still do it.

If I go on a walk in the morning,

it's just a big day dream.

Like I just like make up entire scenarios in my head.

And that's when the best creative ideas come on,

because I wonder if I could actually do that.

Yes.

No, but that's so good that you mentioned that

because we have to allow for these moments of daydreamings.

That's where your creativity comes from.

And I think one of the scary things about,

especially with the younger generations

and devices and all of that,

it takes away,

we've taken away our opportunity to be bored.

Bored is one of the best things you can do for your brain,

one of the best things.

So and the reason for that is because you think,

I'm bored, what can I think about?

What could I imagine?

What could I,

you don't do that if you're entertained

or if you're on a high-focus task

or if you're watching a mid, like for the most part,

you're always entertained.

So if you can go out for a walk with like either like

just music or nothing at all,

that's why ideas come when you're in the shower.

I was gonna say, walk the shower

at the only time that you're not like,

you can't really be doing a scrolling motion.

You're not like listening to some like thing

where you need high-focus.

You're not engaging with your team on something.

You're not, you know, that's why I said to people,

like go on like a no-technology walk

or like the shower, the ideas are gonna come.

Like have pockets in your day where,

and like, please do listen to my podcast,

but where you're not even listening to a podcast.

What are we doing to that?

Everyone asks like, what podcast do you listen to?

And I do listen to podcasts,

but it's almost part of my work day now.

Because exactly.

And they say, do you listen to any of walk?

And I go, I actually don't,

because that's the very few times

that I have to force myself to be creative.

I think about the thing.

And if you're someone that's like,

wow, I can't fathom doing what?

That's okay, take your headphones,

but save for the,

even set a timer for the first 10 minutes of the walk,

no headphones.

And then after 10 minutes of poor,

and you'll be surprised, I've done that.

And then I'm like, oh, no,

I'm in the zone with my imagination.

So then I do like a two hour walk with no headphones.

That seems in, you know what other times

then I think, oh, no, 10 minutes,

I'm like, I'm done, you know,

like it just depends on the day.

It's really hard.

I remember this was, oh gosh,

ages ago we had Dominique Elissa on the pod.

And she was talking about gratitude

and she spoke about,

she goes on walks without listening to anything.

And I thought,

fuck her, they tried it and it was so hard.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And you start off small,

or one thing that I really recommend,

go to a cafe with a night pad and pen.

I mean, I would take your laptop,

but don't connect to the internet

because that defeats the purpose.

But like, just sit down and then it's just a stream of thoughts.

Write down ideas, ideas, ideas, ideas, ideas.

Cause that's good.

Because then when you run out of it,

sometimes when you're walking, you're like,

I'm kind of, but if you're sitting down,

not at home, by the way,

because you will get distracted,

but somewhere where you're out of the house,

night pad and pen,

and just do a stream of consciousness.

I love that because you could romanticize that so much.

Yes.

Yes.

Get your lovely leatherbounds,

whatever it is.

Honestly, I've sat at cafes and written down ideas

for fiction novels that I have not written, right?

But it's just so good.

It's a brain exercise.

You're like getting the brain loose and getting creative.

I love it.

Actually, for people that were listening,

we put something on our stories.

The other day it was made an airport

doing like full arts and craft on Valentine's Day.

I love that.

And I was making my boyfriend an ideas book

because he always has so many ideas.

That's so good.

I was like, you have to write these down.

Write them down.

And no one really ever was like,

what the fuck is she making?

Reveal.

Big reveal.

It's an idea.

It's such a good idea, though.

It is.

It is because you've got to think like,

if we're talking about like attracts like,

the more I sit down and daydream and brainstorm

and write down ideas,

one day I'm going to come up with the idea, right?

But it takes the first hundred of just like throwing it down

on paper and imagining it.

The more you can get yourself into that head space of like,

you know, imagining things and daydreaming

and whatever the happier you're going to be,

the more creative you're going to feel,

the less anxious you're going to feel.

So it's not just for a waste.

Even if these ideas never came to fruition,

it doesn't matter.

The point is that you're in this positive, you know,

again, like attracts like, I'm feeling good.

I'm talking about this.

And before you know,

it's this avalanche of ideas

and, you know, you're going to feel so much better.

And that's where you start seeing opportunities,

your bias changes, you feel better.

So yeah.

I love that.

Yeah.

I feel great after even just this chat.

I love that.

Thank you, me too.

I'm going to write something down and write it.

No, thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you for having me.

I have absolutely loved it.

I feel like I could pick your brain on 10 other things.

So I'm sure we'll have any time.

I'm back in your time.

Thank you.

But yeah, wait, before you go,

is there anything, obviously they can find you

on your podcast?

Yes.

So I'll cast.

Do you fucking mind?

And then I've got three books.

I've got the neuroscience of self-love.

I've got how to chase change.

And I've got B-Bold as well.

I've been listening to the audio book.

Oh, thank you.

Thank you.

Oh, thank you so much for coming on.

And I'm talking again, sir.

Yeah, definitely.

I'll be back.

Thank you.