Maple Leafs Missteps & What's Next with Gord Stellick

Fan Morning Show SportsNet 5.9 in the fan, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, Ben Saturday night was as close to a professional sporting team spitting on its fans as you can get.

Is that too far?

No, I was just trying to think of that like a notable spitting incidence if they've like they've involved umpires, they've involved fellow players

I was trying to think if there was a famous one involving the fans because I was just going to reference it, but no, I don't I don't think it was.

No, no fans were spitting mad. That's for sure.

Yeah, that was horrifying. That first period was in a front to to hockey everywhere.

Let's talk to Gord Stellic on a Monday. Hello, Gord.

And a front to humanity. How about that?

No, it's his horrifying Gord like it's one thing to be bad and to sell off and not win games because obviously this roster is very flawed

and we'll get into it. It's quite another to look like they have at times in all three of the games since the Olympic break.

But specifically the first period at home against your provincial rivals who only led you by a point in the Eastern Conference standings.

Like they're probably not making the playoffs either, but they looked more like a team that was interested in trying like that. That was insane.

Well, and I've mentioned it many times because Elliott likes my quote. I don't know if I invented it, Elliott gives me credit.

Friedman, that is of course about you know, when you're not a very good team, make sure you don't suck at home, suck on the road.

Okay, you know, and because having been in that situation way back when decades ago, these are your die hard fans.

Okay, these are your die hard fans coming at this stage and you owe it at least to have a compete factor or give a belief factor when you're at home.

We understand the seasons become unraveled. It's a disaster. But the minimum you could do is give like, like I said, I was curious to see.

I knew it was going to be tough three games tough and Florida, even though the Panthers are out of a playoff spot.

That on the road and back here, I thought, you know, maybe this would be it to your point.

We'll see tonight if they can at least do that. That's a minimum. That's what they got to do now. They're not in the playoffs. They're not going to be in the playoffs.

But a minimum is you have to make sure you put on a good showing at home because these are people that don't normally get tickets now.

They're going to be able to go to the games. These are the die hard fans through second and that's the minimum that you've got to do.

Yeah, totally. I think the problem with your your adage and it's a good one of if you're going to suck, suck on the road.

They tried sucking on the road too. They were like, we sucked in Florida and you know what?

I'm never harder than that first period. No, you're right. You're right. It was it was terrible. They got the first two shots of the game.

One of them was a goal. And then they're like, all right, here we go. Time to pack it in for 55 minutes. It was it was everything you don't want to see.

You know, there there is so much talk about, you know, who owns this? Who wears this? The thing I was wondering about.

You know, how much is our the two guys that matter? You know, no shots to, you know, Jake McCabe or Morgan Riley or John Tavarez.

But this is the knee lander and Matthew's team now for this so long as the two of them are here.

You know, it's not the big four Craig Bruebe made sure to tell us all the core four is no longer here.

And you know, this isn't the this isn't, you know, even Mitch Marner here to burden any of the blame.

I the reason I asked that is because I don't know if Austin Matthews was having his 69 goal selky vote getting season.

How much it changes? It changes something. But I don't know really how much it changes given how everything else has gone.

How much are the big two guys at least in terms of paychecks on this team in knee lander. Matthew is going to going to wear this season.

Not not in the last 20 games, but kind of going forward when fans think about this.

Well, you know, collectively they wear it. Obviously we've said that top to bottom.

You know, whether you know Keith Felly Bradshaw live in Craig Barubi.

Every every player on the team and, you know, more on this on the bigger players.

I think you're accurate there. So to me, OK, people are talking about traits, traits, traits.

You don't restock in a second. OK, so when you're talking about a rebuild is like saying, OK.

I'm going to do a big rebuild of my of my house.

Well, I don't have any materials, meaning draft fix. So you better just do a little rental. OK, you know, we don't have concrete.

We don't have whatever. I mean, that's basically what they're looking at.

If you're talking about doing a rebuild is you don't get these draft picks back overnight.

So I know it's not a fun answer. And I've said it to you before.

You're committed to these guys, these to those two in particular.

And others like to bear us in that and what have you in the gold tenders and you hope ten of back and all that stuff.

And you've got to try to see if you can do what the Boston Bruins did this past year.

Like they did the one year dip. They kept past and act Maccaboy, campus lend home, whatever may be.

It had ordinary gold to any. They got better gold to any this year.

You got to make some changes. Obviously you make some additions, whatever.

But you've got to hope and believe that this is a major part of it partially.

A major one off that I'm not saying you're Stanley Cup contender anymore.

But that's that's your template. You're committed to it.

You can't all of a sudden go and say we're going to get a bunch of Macklin celebrities.

I mean, that's not going to happen. So I think it next year to me will be the Matthews and Nielanders,

whether the leadership and all those other things about what kind of a difference they can make or not make.

This has just been a disaster for everybody.

Is it becoming untenable to bring Craig Buru back and if you're not doing that,

is there any value to firing him in season?

So no to win season, but something I never like they started the season.

It looked like as united and for good reason, you know, they came first last year.

They played a style of hockey that was conducive to coming first.

And you thought Keith Pelley, Brett, you're living and Craig Buru,

are joined at the hips as much of any of the 32 NHL teams.

But everything's fair game right now. And that's not a shot at him.

Everything's fair game. The coach, the GM, whatever.

That's that's that's that's at the end of the season.

We understand the season's done. Okay. So that's at the end of the season.

And you got to try to, you know, figure it out.

And it's way different than when Brandon Shanahan did it.

The slide had already happened, you know, it had already happened.

This one, this one, you've got a kind of identity.

Winnipeg jets have to do the same thing.

They won the president's trophy last year.

And they're committed to their big players, contract wise, like the Leafs are.

And that's going to be stuff you figure out in the off season.

Yeah, it will be, I think, I think the reason why it's so pointed at Buru Bay right now.

And look, like, you know, there have been times this market has had conversations about firing.

Coaches, there was, of course, that like, Faithful Penguins game right before Babcock.

The Babcock era ended ended here.

But I think the reason why it's so tough is because Buru Bay was brought in, you know,

he had the quote after the game of like, you know, I can't point to the heart.

I can't do that for them.

Is that not kind of the job he was brought in here to do?

And, you know, I sometimes think it's overstated like, you know, Craig Buru Bay has never seen a whiteboard in his life.

You know, I'm sure there's other things that go into the coaching.

But that's what he was brought in here to do.

And I think that's why the criticism is so kind of pointed on, on him right now again,

like not to absolve anybody of this situation.

Be it true living, be it pelly, be it the, the star players, be it Bobby McMahon's of the world.

But I think the reason why it's so pointed to Buru Bay is because that was the coach he was brought in here to do.

Again, like, I think it was mischaracterized, but it was seen as like Sheldon Keith and his lovey-dovey ways.

All right, they're going to get a gruff guy in here.

And it seems like even the gruff guy can't get them to play with the gumption heart, but whatever term you want to use.

Well, and a big difference to Babcock thing.

They had quit on Babcock big time.

Okay, they had it was well known.

Now, I really don't think, I don't know if the, like I hate to say it to the players even care enough to quit.

I don't know.

This is like from the puck drop, the start of the regular season.

Like this has been baffling.

So, so first of all, I don't see any of them quitting on the coach.

But I don't understand and it's funny.

Sheldon Keith's gone through something comparable in New Jersey having a real strong first season there with the devils to a very disappointing season in New Jersey this year.

Like what Craig Buru Bay was brought in to do.

They did.

He did.

Like it's not like this is year two and say, oh, man, the elusive, the elusive butterfly of love.

We can't do it.

It's not not happening.

It never happened.

Well, it did happen.

It did happen.

It did work.

And then it just all came apart with basically the same core.

And we know there's one big player missing, but it's, it's, it's well, well beyond.

One big player in Mitch Martin missing.

This is way bigger than that.

Totally.

Um, and yeah, there's moves coming by Friday at the very least a couple.

Uh, if there's no resigning of Bobby McMahon and or Scott Lawden.

And to that point, Gord, like, are you seeing enough from Bobby McMahon here that he's worth signing up long term for?

Like, what, what are you saying from Bobby McMahon?

And I, I guess if you're a team interested in buying on Bobby McMahon, um, doesn't feel like the price is going up with it with these games recently.

Well, so because, you know, moving forward, like it's even this year, I was so excited about Matthew Nies last year.

I'm excited about nobody this year.

I'm excited about you two guys.

And Austin, three of you, you know, every chat, chat, chatting on Mondays that, okay, moving forward, you need Bobby McMahon's 30 goal pace.

You're like, you could use that, okay?

Obviously. So in putting pieces and he's one of the very rare rare birds.

They've actually developed from within.

They've hardly developed anyone from within and he's one of the current roster and he's done that.

So the thing about deal, you don't become a seller.

Now, unfortunately now that Brendan Carlo trade is really, really sucking and, you know, and so, yeah.

So the kind of thing is, can you, can you get something like that for Bobby McMahon, likely not.

But if there's something, something valuable that you can get in a trade, you make a trade, you don't do it for cosmetic reasons.

Just to say, oh, we got a late second round pick in, in 2028.

Wow, we're, we're restocking the coverage.

Well, you've got a guy that potentially could give you 30 goals next year.

So, so anyway, I, I, I don't think they'll do cosmetic things.

I think a lot of people think, oh, you got to show them, you know, and people are talking about, oh, we'll trade Matthews and Nielander and, you know, that old talk.

And, you know, how does, how does Vancouver looking with Quinn Hughes not there?

Okay, another lesson about things could work out in the long term.

But again, they made a good trade. They got prospects, but it doesn't equal Quinn Hughes.

And you're not going to get anything to equal William Nielander and Austin Matthews.

And especially when you're talking about, you never, you never trade those kind of players.

It's, it's incredible, or even talking hypothesizing about it.

But when they're market values that they're lowest, which it would be now.

Okay, so you're, I don't, I, if they're, if they're trying to make a splash, you know, to make a splash, then, you know, I'd be disappointed in that.

If what, if you had a chance to make good hockey trades, then make a good hockey trade or two fine.

Yeah, it's like the seasons that disaster.

Well, yeah, the time to make the trade where the benefit of it is like the shock to the room or whatever.

That was in November or whatever you want to have your argument about then.

I don't think anybody's getting shocked by any move that's made, made now.

I think the thing that's interesting and, you know, everybody is of this mind of, yeah, the least need to restock the cupboards.

But what are they restocking them for? Like a re, are they restocking them to have full cupboards and they can have these draft picks?

And it's like, okay, three years down the line.

Second round or X is able to help this team.

Or do you think the restocking of the cupboards is to go spend again?

Because I mean, I don't think it is the Doomsday scenario of like, oh, Matthews was at the Olympics.

And he's just dying to get out, you know, much like Mariner talked with the guys at four nations.

And he's ready to leave.

But I think you got to show us to Matthews.

This is a team worth sticking around on, you know, with the idea that he could have a contract extension signed as early as not July 1 this year.

But next year, you know, it feels to me like if you do go make these trades that involve futures, be it for a McMahon or be it for a lot.

Or, you know, even if it's for somebody like an OEL, you can't just have those futures and then turn them into, you know, your first round pick this year.

I mean, again, like Cowan was the first round pick.

Everyone was happy about and think about how long it's taking him to become an NHL regular still hasn't happened.

So I think that's the interesting part of this is that if you do go out and restock the cupboards, you can't just sit on those assets.

You then this summer have to turn those assets into players that can help you right now.

Yeah, and the cap space situation, it's going up.

Marners has been gone for a year.

John Tveris took that club friendly, so feel so, you know, cap space should be more available to to, you know, add, like I said, it's always like the cherry on the Sunday.

It's not the Sunday, but if we're talking cupboards, I think the first cupboard is you've got to figure out what's in this current cupboard.

Okay, what's in it that last year they were first place and they got to the second round to play us and they had a lead over Florida for two games and part of a third game compared to this.

So in some cases, like, you know, because that's the easiest one to do. Those are the people you have.

Those are the guys you have under contract and you've seen two very extremely different, extremely opposite kind of performances in two years.

Like, you know, so again, like I said, oh, where are we talking Stanley Cup again?

Well, I was talking that before I wouldn't be talking that again, but as far as trying to get back on track and your best, your best first thing to me go to is with this.

With this core group building around it and see what you see what you can get out of them. They've delivered it before.

No, Keith Valley was right. It's all Kristanaf not being here. That's the main difference. I mean, I guess he is the greatest player that's ever lived.

Well, yeah, it's obviously not been injuries and one fella whether that be Mitch Marner or Kristanaf shouldn't be enough to undo a season the way this season's been undone.

So, yeah, Brent brought up a great point that Brad tree living's last transaction with another NHL team was like last July.

Yeah, fired an assistant coach, Mark Sivard and the power play got better and there was a little boost in the standings.

After that happened, perilously little action from the general manager to try and save this season.

Should he have done more? I mean, like it's easy to say, I guess without some identifiable move to have made or maybe that was firing the head coach at some point.

Does it feel like Brad tree living sat on his hand sat this one out and watch the Titanic sink this season?

Yeah, you could kind of understand it to a degree, a belief in, you know, this current group was going to get going again or whatever because that's what they did last year.

So, again, you know, to start like, you know, everyone's accountable. There's no, I don't think there's no miracle trade.

He turned down that would have made a difference, but what, you know, again, what is it about that this, you know, here's another, here's an example.

So, okay, they brought back the same core of the, okay, and people didn't argue it.

Now, Tan, I've got hurt, we know, but this, this core depth wise, yeah, what, yeah, this core depth wise, you know, seemed to do the job.

I think we'd all agree last year. So, even a thing like you talked to some insiders, and they go, the D can't get the puck to the forwards.

How did this happen? Like, like, I go back to that Florida panther playoff game where Chris pan of just starts gesturing, get back here, get back here.

Like, it was like kid hockey, like, you know, you're going up too fast. They can't get the puck to the panthers.

We're steamrolling on you and it seemed to be like they said so many things picked up from those two playoff games.

Rather than the 82 regular season games and the other playoff games, almost from game one, even a thing that they seemed to do well last year,

the D getting the puck to the forwards kind of seamlessly has been problematic.

Everything that wasn't, so many things that weren't problematic, all of a sudden are.

Yeah, they are, it's, well, on your right cord that so many new problems have also kind of cropped up that it makes you forget about the things that we were talking about as being issues heading into the season, right?

Like, there are a million issues with the Leafs right now, but one of them was, where's anybody going to, like, anybody on this team going to score goals?

You know, Austin Matthews, he's he's want to do that. William Nealander is, but, you know, this was a team that struggled to score last year,

and then they create a defensively minded third and fourth line, which is fine. Like, I think there are a lot of hockey teams that can win games with that.

You know, notably the Edmonton Oilers when they have dry saddle and McDavid at the top with a kind of one to punch.

I think that's the problem is it feels like new problems have cropped up, but the old ones also necessarily haven't got solved.

And that's why, you know, it's like, I was kind of laying it out this morning.

They're all these like, Oh, disastrous moments. God, do you know what I would kill to have a disastrous game five or seven this year?

And I don't mean of the month of March. I mean, like, you know, in a playoff series is just, it is remarkable how quickly things have turned from disappointing,

but disappointing because there were expectations to this now that what we're going to be looking at down the stretch, especially after again.

Like, I don't think it'll be major surgery, but a sell off of guys that have played, you know, plenty of regular minutes for this team this year.

Yeah, you know, and I mean, started off with in different goal tending, which we didn't get last year.

And there's been stretches of real good goal tending now, but in different goal tending, which was new.

But even a thing to, to your point. So, you know, Brad, you're living talked about, I like players with snot.

And that's a good thing to add, but not at the expense of goals drying up.

Okay, like, you know, you want goals or snot? I'll take goals. Okay, whatever.

You know, we always understood could they add a little bit of that, what it was sandpaper, whatever you want to call it?

Well, they did, but what does it matter? You're losing games. So, so maybe you get the odd more physical hits or whatever may be.

Yeah, so in trying to change the fabric of the team, you added a little bit of that, but you lost way too much of the other.

Yeah, it's, it's remarkable. All right, I didn't want it to be all doom and gloom.

So let's talk to you about a light in our life. No, not in leafland, but just, you know, the NHL in general.

This Matthew Schaefer is, is incredible. He's got 20 goals now. He's done it in 61 games.

He is the most goal. It's the most goal scored by a teenage defenseman in the NHL history.

He is three away from tying Brian Leach's record. Also, Dion Fanoff. He's now tied with him for 20 goals in a rookie season.

God, that feels like a thousand years ago, but man, in a world where we are constantly talking about how special Macar and Hughes are,

or even just with young players, Celebrini, it feels like Schaefer might be the best young player in the league,

which is a remarkable sentence to say about a league that, that, that employs, you know, Conor Bidard and, and Macklin Celebrini.

Yeah, so I mean, the last thing with the Leafs, you look about not making the playoffs, you go, oh my goodness.

What a year because the Florida Panthers are barring a miracle, not going to make the playoffs either.

And they look like the removal logic sent, removal logic. So you got Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Detroit, and the New York Islanders right now in the playoffs and pretty good stead.

And, and, uh, imagine all four of them making it. And Matthew Schaefer, we had talked to which scoring last week.

He does the Islanders radio. And what's the reason that him, period, him, period.

I mean, there's been other things, Patrick Law and that and, and, you know, you've had Barcelona coming back from an injury and other things.

But yeah, and, you know, guys, I'm older than you guys, but you certainly know the myth, the legend of Bobbiore.

And I, I never use anybody else in the same breath as Bobbiore is an 18 year old. I never, never, never nobody.

You know, you can talk about Gretzke's and Lemus and whatever upfront, but as far as an 18 year old defenseman goes.

Yeah, you mentioned Leach and there's been others, Bork and that that have been great, but they weren't 18 when they did all that.

This is unbelievable. Like this is, this is, uh, this is something special. And then he hardly played last year.

And, uh, you know, we're, we're going to get used to it in the playoffs watching without the leaks.

And these are the kind of players you love to watch in the playoffs.

Yeah, obviously a different league, but it's just like at 18 years old, Bobbiore had 13 goals and 41 points at 61 games.

Bobbiore, not as good as we, we think like, no, no, just putting in perspective.

No, I think the guy who on his hockey reference page, I'm looking at it right now, his nicknames are number four.

God is what they have listed as the nicknames. Yeah, I think he's pretty good, but it's just, it's, it's truly remarkable.

What, what chafers can't love here? Yeah, it's fine. Well, we got to find, we got to find our fun somewhere else.

And that's one of them. I'll talk, baby. Yeah, yeah, on five straight, third in the metro.

Uh, Gordo, thanks as always, buddy.

See you guys. Yeah, we'll find out how the dust all settles on Friday, you know, big splash, no splash, little splash, whatever.

And we will, we will persevere. Take care, guys. Yeah, maybe drown on the pool.

All right, see ya. There's court selling. All right. Yeah, that's coming Friday.

It is a trade design. We'll have a big show on Friday, obviously.

The Maple Leafs get ready to hoard their third round picks for, I don't know, Bob.

Take other people's, it'd be like, give it to me. Give me that third, third rounder.

Well, to your point, though, it's, it's not about utilizing those picks to draft prospects. Yeah.

There, I've seen some of the discourse and some of the stuff written about, should it be a larger scale rebuild as opposed to a retool that the Maple Leafs are going through on Friday?

You, you can't rebuild this like the rebuild will be coming if it continues this way in two years, right?

And it made me just one more of this. And it's like, you know, who's making the decision for a rebuild is the Lovemer Haydom,

the guy who is the leading goal scorer in the history of this franchise, who's not exactly indicating that he's signing up for yet another five year extension.

That'll be the time where you have no choice but to rebuild.

But as long as you've got him and no first round picks, like how is there another choice?

Sure, you, you maybe go a little deeper than the surface level, pending free agents in Man and Lawton and maybe the Oilers sniffing around all of our Ekman Larsen,

that's something that you can really recoup something significant.

But then this offseason, you take those assets and you try them to somebody for win now, he says, because this ain't over.

No, it's not, but I, I almost look at it the other way in that you can't, you're right. Like the idea of going scorched earth so long as Matthews is here and you're trying to keep him under contract

beyond the one he's currently signed to, there's no going scorched earth.

But I also don't know that there's anything that matters beyond Matthews and Newander.

Like who's the guy on this team right now that you, oh man, like you can't trade John Tavarez because you're not really replacing his level of play.

And I'm sure I, I be shocked if there's not a no move attached to there.

But outside of that, it's like what, you can't build a winning hockey team if Jake McCabe isn't on it.

He's just a big name because I think of all the guys on this Leafs team.

He's probably the one that a good team looks at outside of Matthews and Newander and says, give me that.

Give me that you can trade Jake McCabe to get your, and again, it's not just to get.

Oh, two firsts that you can use way down the line and then Ben Danford beat.

No, it's to package that into something better.

And I think this is part of the problem is the guy who's going to be doing the sell off.

You, I think a lot of people in the fan base would agree.

Do not hope he's the one doing the rebuilding, remodeling, retooling, whatever re you want to use.

Just do something here.

So I think that's the way I look at it is, you're right.

Like you can't go to court, start to get everything out of here for all the future assets you want.

But the idea that any of these pieces outside of Matthews or Newland or sacred cows that cannot be touched.

Absolutely not.

No, you can trade any of these guys.

Correct.

Yes.

You can't use this off course.

Of course.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The only reason you can't trade these guys is if it's for first round picks in the years 28 to 32 or something like that.

And luckily, if you, if you don't have the most faith in Brad Triliving and his ability as a hockey executive.

Here's the good news is that generally speaking, that's an easy thing to do is just to hope it, like open up the bidding for players and take the best offer.

And I guess you can quibble with whether it's a deal we're doing, especially fellas who have years of control like Oliver Ekman-Larson or Jake McCabe.

Yep.

But I think I would, I would like to think that he looks at this blue line that says, hey, if there's one area that we can't roll over into 202627, it would be that area.

Yeah.

How do you rebuild it?

That's the job.

Well, that again, much like it's the cardinal sin of a Craig Baroube hockey team to look like they're not trying.

It's the cardinal sin of a Brad Triliving hockey team to have a blue line that you don't like.

That was the one thing again in talking with all the people who pay attention to the flames and watch that tenure there.

It's like, hey, you know what?

Say what you will.

And there will be quibbles.

You're going to mostly like the blue line.

Not like every single piece on it.

And you can ask for like a higher end here or there.

But generally speaking, their floor is something you're going to like.

You do not like the floor.

It's the last thing on the Matthew Schaefer of it all.

It's just, it's so hilarious that right out of the Olympic break, he's just like multiple games with multiple goals.

Yeah.

I think he's got seven goals in his last eight games.

Very good enough.

Right.

Team Canada did find and they dominated the game against the Americans that they lost in three on three over time.

But yeah, it's hilarious to think about that guy.

If this hot stretch even had come a little bit earlier in the season, nothing was having not done spectacular season before the selections were made.

But how would you have kept this guy off of Team Canada?

Yeah, you wouldn't have.

Is that funnier or is that more or less funny than Conor Helibuck has now allowed an NHL high seven goals of three on three this year?

Yeah.

Yeah, what's funnier?

I don't know.

Yeah, they're both like, ha ha funny.

Let me jump down this flight to Stairs here.

Ha ha funny.

Let me go headbutt the bottom of the Scarborough Bluffs.

Yeah.

Makes me feel bad about the tease I'm about to do for our next segment.

I got to do it after I tell you about Chris Stapleton.

Obviously.

Because Chris Stapleton's All American Roadshow is coming to Roger State even Toronto with special guests.

Zach Topp and Alan Stone on Thursday, August 6th with now a second show on Tuesday, September 1st.

We got four pairs of tickets to give away to the second show.

Text the code word traveler to 59590 for your chance to win.

If you don't win with us, tickets now on sale on ticket master contest open to Ontario residents only.

Standard message and data rates may apply.

Okay.

So we're just talking about hockey now.

We're talking hockey hockey hockey.

Always am.

Yeah.

Um.

Was Mitch Marner right like if this if this decision was just entirely hockey based to jump off this train.

At the exact moment that he did that more next as the fan morning show continues.

Ben and his brain gunning sports net 590.

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Ben morning shows sports net 590.

The fan and his brain gunning.

You don't know.

Maybe it's darkest right before the dawn.

You don't know.

Do you know how many times I've told myself that regarding this to you?

Maybe it's just doesn't have a wins for this team going forward.

Fewer.

That's on the short list of things that would surprise me the most or have surprised me the most in pro sports.

Honestly, that that should have been a segment.

Oh, what would.

What have you experienced in your sporting life that was more surprising than the Leafs potentially making the playoffs now?

I'm not trying to think nothing will ever surpass.

And it's I suppose it's like by the time it built to it.

It wasn't that surprising.

And I watched Kevin Durantz Achilles snap right before my various like just like the Toronto Raptors will win the NBA title.

It's like I would have punched you in the mouth if you had told me that for lying to me.

The year before when they were winning 50 games and playing in the Eastern Conference Final.

It didn't affect me in any way, shape or form.

Lester.

Like that's forever the gold standard in this in the or or as Ted Lasso famously calls it.

Lachester because that's how it is still in my head.

But yeah, that's the gold standard in this.

But that basically didn't happen.

If you told me that was a movie and that actually never happened to be like, yeah, okay.

I don't know.

I'm not following the Premier League that closely.

So I would bring it.

Okay.

So it's not an apples to apples comparison here.

But man, do you remember watching the Blue Jays in April in the beginning of May last year?

Not really to be perfectly like it's like baseball seasons are so long.

And there was I know crazy thought here.

There was a like competitive hockey team.

That was stealing away my attention.

Yeah, I will tell you that I remember how an app they were they could not hit a home run.

Like they just they it was them and the royals battling at the very bottom of the major league baseball home run leaderboard.

I do remember a lot of like singles night.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And this was coming back here.

And it was coming off a year that was disastrous offensively like, oh, this is this is this is horrible.

This is a nightmare.

This is awful.

Yeah.

And they took it to within an inch of winning the world series.

So maybe there is actually a more recent comparable anyways.

So something's going to happen by Friday.

Somebody's going to be no longer a member of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

How many former members of the Toronto Maple Leafs up in the air?

And I assume it'll be Brad Triliving making the decisions on Friday.

I would imagine.

Okay.

And it doesn't have a direct president of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

But there is a president of MLSC that is now his direct report Keith Pelley.

We talked about the email to season ticket holders.

And boy, the takeaway for many, including us, was that first line that talked about the injuries derailing this season,

which are just that's untrue, not not factually.

And I made the joke to Gord that Chris Tanaff is not the greatest player in the history of the NHL,

which you would have to be to have removed him from a team that won the Atlantic division,

pushed the eventual Stanley Cup champions to seven games and then to this and what we saw on Saturday.

So that's not it.

But just generally speaking, okay, I don't think anybody has a ton of faith in Brad Triliving.

Like that's an easy question.

How much faith do you have in Brad Triliving as close to none as you can have because of the track record?

Totally.

Because of one good season.

Yeah.

Okay.

And I think the same can be said of Craig Barouba and the good faith.

Well, and also it's like the good season.

And I know they didn't hear the clear this bar in the past,

but it's like they got the Oswald Senators in the first round.

Totally.

They didn't get the panthers with the lightning.

Totally.

Then they got one of them and they lost.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All right.

How much faith do you have in Keith Pelley at the tippy top of the organizational structure?

I think the thing that scares me the most is that and I like that he is aware about this.

But he knows he didn't, he did not get hired as MLSC president for his,

or basketball throw that in there as well for his hockey or basketball acumen.

That's not why he's there.

He, this also was not the guy he hired to be the general manager here.

So I think there's an element of not wanting to come in and be like,

okay, me, former golf commissioner and media executive,

I'm going to be pulling straight.

He wants to empower that, you know what you're doing that job?

You empower smart people.

Now sometimes the president of an org is like a Brandon Shanahan type,

or a Messiah Jerry type or somebody with, you know, skin in the game regarding those things.

That's not Pelley.

I have faith that Keith Pelley would throw his body in front of some,

and again, like you can have all the little or the least faith in Bradshaw living in the world.

And I don't think this is happening.

I think he would throw his body in front of some like Eastern Cowan and Ben Danford for a win now play.

Sure, sure.

But I don't think he's getting involved in anything outside of this would be now practice for a hockey team.

I think short of that, he's going to let the people who are there do their job.

So I actually, and I want to be clear, if you're not there to be a hockey person, don't be a hockey person.

Keith Pelley, I'm sure is watch plenty of hockey games and been involved and been a hockey dad and all.

Guess what?

I shouldn't be running the Leafs either, okay?

That's the way I look at this.

So I have faith in Pelley to not, I have much more faith I should say in him to not meddle with a general manager.

Then I do to be making smart decisions because I don't think he's making outside of letting Bradshaw living continue to do the job.

I don't think there's any decisions he's making.

And I don't look at that.

Again, I can, I can have my feelings about the actual makeup of this work, but I don't want Keith Pelley sticking his finger in there and getting involved in all of the hockey moves.

That's not what he is there to do.

Now, should there be a president who's there to do that?

Yes, I think there should, but that's not what he's here to do.

So I have faith in him not to meddle, but that shouldn't be the bar that I look at for whoever's in charge of this when everyone for the most part has such little faith in the guy who is making the decision.

Yeah. And I think you're right. I don't think he's like, everybody out. It's my show now.

Dr. Keith is going to do surgery here. Like I don't think that's happening, but the thing that you said that I think is absolutely true, putting smart people in place and stepping back.

But yes, identifying the smart people and putting them in place. Where's the evidence of that?

Like the guy's career. It's incredible what he has done.

Totally.

By which I mean, the career that he's had, which is president of the Argos because he's friends with the owners.

And then they want a great cop, which is, okay, you get credit for that.

Of course.

How much you were involved? I don't know. You're the president.

You were, you know, one of the single digit teams in that league and won the championship.

Yeah. Where the league needs the Argos to succeed. And you did it.

They rigged it for.

He gets credit for whatever you want to call that. Right.

I went to the European tour where I don't know. It's commissioner of European tour.

And he got to live on a golf course. I think Rory likes him.

And whatever they went through their thing with live and the punishments and whatever.

He tried to navigate those waters. He's a PR guy though.

I will say like that part again, like I don't think anybody handled it the way I wanted to,

which was put up guardrail saying if you ever even sniff around live,

you're never welcome back and play society. But it's like he stick handled it well enough

that there were sanctions in play and all the top heroes got to play on the rider cup team.

So good job.

Okay.

That's it. That's the extent of his sports executive experience.

The first stuff is media stuff, which he did.

He brought the unholy alliance together, right?

Like he was the first guy at the head of the consortium when Rogers and Bell came together

to broadcast the 2010 Olympics.

And he needed to buy all accounts a great job of that.

Yeah. I'm not going to criticize anybody who's involved in the 2010 Olympics.

Show me the proof of concept that he's up to any of this being a sports executive.

Unless you really are Mr. CFL and you can point to all the moves that he made.

And it's awesome. I think Mackie looking at me.

Is he Mr. Gray Cup and understands what Keith Pelley did to win a great cup of the Argos?

Yes. You call bunk in the break and you get to the bottom of that.

Yeah. No, like there's just no evidence that there's anything.

I'm not saying he's not up to it.

Sure.

But there is absolutely no resume to make you optimistic about even the idea of hiring the smart guy to do this.

So I, I, okay, I do agree with that.

But I will say the idea of the timeline when he took over it was in a post-trail living world.

He had already been hired.

And then the team has success.

I don't think anybody.

And again, like I had my questions about what Brad Triliving was when he took over the job.

But then they win a playoff round.

They pushed the cup champs farther than the oilers pushed.

No, it was clamoring for a GM change.

No.

This off season.

And I think that when it goes to Borough, a burkyism, when the 18 Wheeler goes clear off the cliff

in the middle of the season, I think there is an element.

And I think that this is a lot of executives.

I think even a president here, like if Shani was still in charge, he goes, okay, I'm not, not firing a GM in the middle of the season.

That's not going to accomplish my goals here.

So I think that's where the, it's very much of me of like, do I trust him to put a smart hockey person in place?

I'm still very TBD on that.

And I think that's what he wants to do.

And that is, in my opinion, that's where again, there should just be a president in this hockey team that's a hockey person.

That's the way it should go.

But in a world where that doesn't exist, I still think, I still think Pelley is way closer to, okay, out and bring it, bring me again.

Like you can have your guy, Doug Armstrong, Milsito, Jim Nill, whoever it is, as opposed to I'm going to meddle and get involved.

And that would be the Doomsday scenario for me.

Totally, but there's, yes, I'm not saying that there's any mounting evidence that the guy can't do it.

I will say that he's really just, he's abdicated some responsibility here because he's like, hey, exhaustive search for the Raptor's president.

Not going to hire one.

No president for the Leafs either.

Right.

What has he done?

Nothing.

Yeah.

Put on a brake face, I guess, send an email out to season ticket holders and made people upset.

Well, I think there's no Tim Laiwiki, right?

Like Tim Laiwiki is the guy that also did the thing.

He didn't meddle.

He identified the smartest and best people and say what you will about the end of the shantahant.

Sure.

What an unbelievable success.

He did the job.

He didn't do the second part of it, but he did the job of turning it from a dumpster fire into respectability.

Yeah.

I think obviously the Messiah Jerry, it's like, unquestioned success.

He's in the clink now or he's he's got problems.

I don't know if he's in the clink right now, but yeah, Tim Laiwiki not not on people's radar.

I thought I missed a Messiah story in there somewhere.

I don't know.

Tim Laiwiki's got some legal issues.

He's currently dealing with it.

Well, what I was, what I was going to say to that, I think the thing that kind of justice,

that with the juxtaposition in the market that's frustrating is you have with the baseball

team, a guy who is both, you have with the baseball team, there's a GM, but there's a president

who was a baseball general manager before he was and it's like he had both roles in Cleveland.

Obviously, he is, you know, for all the jokes who were made at that duo's expense.

I don't think anybody's making them now.

And he's been able to walk in shoe gum of doing all the business he's stuff, well building

a competitive baseball team.

And I just think that's the frustrating part is that, you know, the, the blue jays,

this is not denigrating them in any way, shape or form.

The crown jewel of the city sports realm is the Toronto Maple Leafs and to not have

somebody in place like that for them, well, it does exist for the jays.

I think that's where a lot of the, where a lot of the frustration comes from as well.

Yeah, it's not good.

No, there's not one thing that you can point to, but at least this and it's like, I guess

at least they have Austin Matthews and William kneelander who are still good.

Well, and I was about to say who those guys have nothing to do with, but it's like, no,

Triliving gave kneelander the contract and Triliving got Matthews signed, but it's like

he got him signed when he's like, okay, I won't trade your bestie.

And here you go.

So this all sounds bad.

Let's pay off.

Let's pay off.

Let's pay off.

That's easier.

Okay.

So, obviously, it's more than hockey when it comes to the fan bases feelings about

Mitch Martin, right?

Like no duh.

And it should be that way.

It absolutely should be.

Yes.

100% the rumors, the innuendo about having one foot out the door and family members looking

for places and they guess while he was still a member of the Toronto Maple Leafs, the

not accepting the richest contract extension in the history of the franchise and also not

allowing the Maple Leafs to trade him.

Yeah, the next thing of a trade, man, it's like it wasn't even just like, oh, they were

going to get a bunch of futures for him.

It was going to be proven playoff performer, Miko Ranton, who was willing to resign?

Yes.

Okay.

Yeah.

So this is not a fair mental exercise, but let's do it.

Okay.

If it's just a hockey decision, if Mitch Marner hadn't, if that other stuff hadn't happened,

yeah.

And Mitch Marner had played this better from a PR standpoint as well, right?

Like hadn't done the, wow, it was so difficult for my family here in Toronto as well, which

is also part of it.

But like keep looking at me and talking about me, Toronto.

Okay.

Mitch Marner just did the calculations and yeah, I saw a division title, but man, there

were reasons to believe that the pillars were crumbling underneath of a Leafs team that

did go seven games against the Panthers.

And that was more a part of the calculation than the other stuff and the enjoying your

life in Henderson and being a Vegas golden night in Yadayada and the mean people of Toronto.

Yeah.

Would you look at his decision as being correct?

I don't know that I would because, and okay, this is where you get to tell me like, you

get to actually like get up out of your chair and cuff me upside the head if if this is

dumb as I think it is this year, the way it's gone for the Leafs.

If you play this season of 10 times, like does it not feel like literally everything has

gone wrong?

I don't think this hockey team for as much as we've talked about it.

And I don't think I'm not going Keith Belly of like, oh, it's Cristana's injury and

that's that.

But it feels like if you play this season out with this group of individuals 10 times,

guess what?

They're a playoff team at least half of them.

And part of that is about the state of the NHL and how hard it is to be truly bad, absolutely.

But you also just have Mitch Marner on this team and you don't go make your dumb and

teased Michele trade and okay, Nick was not here as your third line center, but you

have money to spend and you're actually looking for one as opposed to, we got this here

because we got to take something from Mitch.

No, I think the right hockey decision, sure, he's playing in the Pacific Division, anybody

can have success over there.

There's one team in that division that has more wins than losses, okay?

And if the ducks, it's not even the golden nights, it's a joke.

But so I suppose you can make the argument of like, yes, look at the greener pastures

he found over there, but I don't think the Leafs were some smoldering crater before

he left.

So no, I don't, from a hockey perspective, yes, it's always easier to go to the Pacific

Division.

Top end of sentence, but we're the Leafs destined to be this object failure this year.

No, I wouldn't be sitting here yelling about the job Craig Barouba did or I wouldn't be

sitting here yelling about the jobs you're living to.

So I don't know that I can just look at this as like well from a hockey perspective.

No, like is he in a better situation?

Yes.

So I suppose the answer to it is yes, then, but is it an infinitely better situation?

I really don't know that it is also in Vegas, it's like careful, they'll throw their

mum overboard to win a Stanley Cup.

You think the Leafs weren't loyal to you by doing everything and their power to make

life easy on you.

What do you think it's going to be like there if it at all ever goes sideways?

No, I agree.

Yeah.

Cause Vegas stinks too.

Like Vegas is like, as there ever been a more paper tiger, they have the playoff bonafides

right?

Their goal tending has been an abject disaster.

They were just blanked five, nothing by the penguins yesterday.

By the way, the penguins all of a sudden find themselves in this great spot where they

have all these futures and gindles having a great year because unlike what I've said

about the Leafs with John Tavares of like, if they truly love their captain, they'd win

game.

So you could play in them after John Tavares was neat in the face and started bleeding

out of zero from Corey Perry.

Yeah.

They're actually doing that for Sidney Cross.

Totally.

We won't let it die for you, Sid, right?

But Vegas hasn't beaten the playoff team since November 20th, like a team currently in

a playoff position.

I'm sorry.

You, you surely mean January 20th.

No, I mean, you mean, no, you mean December, no, no, no, you mean right before the Christmas

freeze, November 20th, I got team leads the Pacific division, having not beaten a team

currently in a playoff position in a zillion months.

That's crazy.

That's like, it's such a long stretch of the season.

So yeah, the alleged best team that they've beaten there is the Jackets.

Yeah, it's a good job.

No, great job, Vegas.

No, it's crazy.

No, I'm with you as much as maybe the smartest of the smart could have identified the pending

collapse of the Toronto Maple Leafs, despite the fact that, yeah, they don't throw up all

over themselves.

They had two chances not to throw up all over themselves at home in game five and seven

and decided to throw all over themselves all the way in both and instead won the road

game in game six.

It was the most impressive.

Again, continuing to suck at home is this leaves team.

Unless Mitch Marner was the one guy who figured it out that it was about to collapse.

And yeah, Vegas wasn't great, but like they play in this horrible division.

No, I don't.

There was no hockey element to this whatsoever.

No, it was a personal element and man, not to rehash everything, but I'm all hot and

bothered this morning.

Why not?

It felt like a guy that just, I say this all the time that he never could have imagined.

He was going to be as good of a hockey player as he became and he got to be on the Leafs

and there'd be somebody better.

That was it.

And it's like there are a million other offshoots of that of a respect and whatever.

But that was what it all kind of boiled down to.

He did everything he could have to become the amazing and guess what?

Still amazing hockey player that he is.

He just never could have envisioned that that would have come with not being captain

of the Toronto Maple Leafs and the guy on the absolute front of the mast head and all

of that.

Or the top of the mast head that it just, it felt like that was a hurdle, a bridge too

far.

And then, you know, I mean, how could, honestly, how could anyone ever get over not getting

your schedule, a bonuses on your ELC?

Like after that, like how could anyone ever move on?

Uh, quaint.

Good stuff.

All right.

Uh, when we come back, we'll talk to Sam McKee, a real Kipper and Bourne and Leafs

talk.

The Jan Morning Show continues, Ben and his spring-gunning sports at 5.95.