Marathon Is Both a Miracle and a Monster

0:00Could've used a dinklage. Could've used a floating dinklage. That accompanied me all about Marathon and would sort of, you know, it's quip, drop cracks, bring back to life. Do you understand how deep into the destiny hole you would need to be to know that Peter dinklage at one point, but no longer voiced the ghost that followed you around in Destiny? I actually downloaded an update to fix it because they did swap them out with Nolan North in 2016. But then I found an update online. Did you pay Peter dinklage a camera go? So yes, it was a very, very complicated, so basically what I had to do, every time a bunch of you released a new expansion, I would transcribe all of the ghost dialogue and then I would buy many dinklage cameras. It's like 60 or 70 per expansion, yeah. Some of them needs a little bit less for ghosts than others, but yeah, I think it would

1:03be better, I think it would be a better game if there was a, there's a class of someone's little healing bots. All I'm saying is just have dinklage say like no problem, I'll get in there and heal them up. Good boss. Yeah. Stuff like that, like I think we, and you could probably do like the Pokemon anime thing where they just keep reusing the same animation. You could probably slot in some of those lines. Oh, for sure. For sure. No problem. Yeah, I could probably take lines from his other movies that sound like, like maybe there's a movie where he's a doctor and he's like all heal him up and you can put that on the healing robot. But I think a dinklage would have bumped this up to a 10 for me. That's the question about the cameras, because I hate to like dwell on it. Yeah. Did it get annoying that every line was like, I think you should heal up. Thank you for another cameo, Griffin. Yeah. Well, no. Sometimes if it was a short one like that, you can trick him into saying, he won't just do it. You do have to trick him. And all these stuff like, hey, it's my niece's seventh graduate anniversary of her wedding.

2:03And it would really make her day if you would say drone incoming, prepare to, prepare to strike like, and then he doesn't ever fall for it because I use a fake name every time. And you did change the black pyramid to be called cameo, so you could kind of work it in that way too. Yeah. Every time I was like, I got him, that one was three different cameos because I had to get the in one. Yeah. And then like black was like a different one. And then pyramid, that pyramid was tricky to say into, but I did manage to get that one in there. Thank God. I'm just doing a thing about the food pyramid for my nephew. He has really complicated views about that. So we probably shouldn't be going for it. Yeah. No. How?

3:04My name is Griffin McRory, another best game of the week. My name is Christopher Timberlant and I took a lot of drugs, and I saw you take down a hearty golf. He's so used to having that Justin beat. Yeah, for sure, that's our water buddy. Yeah Take it again Chris. No, it's good. No, no, no, no, I'm really happy with it. Okay, my say your name My name is most frustrating guy. I know the best game of the week Welcome to the best season we talk about the ladies and greats and home interactive inter game Justin's recovery continues. He is now. This is maybe the worst possible game for him to try we put four logo in a twitch-based intense very Demanding shooter very punishing very time-consuming shoot. There's a lot of heats that this thing was bringing that That that juice was not able to sort of if anything it was kind of mean of us, but I think yeah Put that on Chris plant who is the one that suggested we play this game. So rather than You know the three of us speak enthusiastically about this cyberpunk

4:06Extraction shooter while one of us just kind of Waits for the bits of me over We're gonna be rocking Trio mode just like in marathon. Oh Chris what the heck is marathon, dude? Marathon's latest first person shooter from Bungie the people who brought you Halo and Destiny and Destiny 2 But this time they are going after a new multiplayer trend. They're going after the extraction shooter where you land on a Terrifying train of enemies and other players. You try to collect a lot It's a good loot complete a little mission or two and you then get the hell out of there without dying If you don't care about extraction shooters and I don't There's some really wild choices that this game makes that I think are interesting to talk about and we will get All up into that and more after this short break. Can I try and set the scene for like The vibe before Marathon's release and it's been out for what a few weeks. Yeah, couple weeks So I was playing Destiny 2 pretty actively when they announced that they were working on marathon

5:09This was already when the I don't know vibe around Bungie in general had started to get a little bit weird just because there've been some like higher-up changes at Destiny 2 and some really really really shitty decisions made for that game I remember it being announced during a sort of not great period and so there was already kind of that vibe hanging around I think people were not so stoked about marathon as a pro I mean, I think people were had no opinions about marathon because it had been dormant for 30 years Yeah, so they've been dormant for a very long time and then when the news came out that it was an extraction shooter I feel like that that was also a little bit tough and then there was the thing where it turned out that some of the Some of the art from the game had been plagiarized and so like there's just been kind of a lot of I have been very hesitant to Check this game out despite my Thousands of hours. I have logged across Destiny 1 and 2 because of that stuff and I don't know. I think it's a

6:11another object lesson that like Reputation should maybe not proceed a game when you are in the position of talking about games professionally Because it's it has surprised me that I've been having some fun with me I was totally ready to fully skip it because of a lot of the things you mentioned and emphasis on me not really liking the genre Yeah, the fact that Chris Plant of all people the last person I would ever think topsy term to be into an extraction shooter and we talked about it last week So obviously we know we were all surprised about that But the fact that he was into it genuinely was the most peaking of my interest for this game That is what got me to be like, okay, I've got to see where Chris plans brain is to for this to be clicking for him so hard Could we do Chris could you set up sort of what the extraction shooter model is? Before you kind of get into what works about about this for you I think we all sort of what I thought it was and then what I think it is now after falling in love

7:16kind of this game. I thought in an extraction shooter was Collect lots of loot and then lose lots of loot and therefore it's a waste of time that you go into a really terrifying map full of really hardcore NPCs and also other players who are absolutely ruthless and You try to find rare guns that you can then use in another round where you will die and then they will steal those guns and suddenly You're back to where you started and that didn't sound super fun. And everyone's worth there There are those games like extraction shooters like what you described do definitely exist in fact I would say just kind of the norm in a lot of ways. Yes, for sure What I read this game as is closer to a game with a campaign that takes place inside of what I just described So before you go into any mission with your buds or solo You can select a variety of missions for different corporate leaders and it might be as simple as like

8:22Break 20 windows or it might be more complicated like a four point process where you need to go back and forth across the map Loading different, you know like computer terminals triggering various enemy things these are not complex is one of the missions really break 20 windows because that's very funny Yeah, one of the onboarding missions for one of the factions is like everything you need to know about us is where bad boys go break 20 towel Settied for windows. It's like holy shit. And why is this your whole deal? So you and you go in and you complete those missions you do not have to exalt rate to have completed that mission So right away the heart most hardcore thing about it is gone, which is go in you can do the mission and then if you Die that's terrible if you happen to get out with lots of cool weapons that will help you in your next mission That's great. That's that's the real gravy and you can do that over and over and over again What is interesting about the missions is they start to establish what the meta is and

9:23Why people are doing what they're doing so another the bad boys of of marathon have a mission that's like You need to go and not just down 10 people, but you need to execute them on the ground, which is Rough move to do because it immediately puts you in the fire of like whoever they were with right like it's probably gonna Get you killed trying to show off doing that But once you do that you then know the next time you get executed ah, they were probably They're probably just Pretty happy for them and it completely changes your mindset about the kind of hostile behavior that you're going up against There is this equalizing that you start to feel in the game of I Get it. We're all here to get our job done. Yeah So that's I would say like that's the top level a week at talk for the whole episode just about that That is a that is a that is a core pillar of the extraction Shooter model that this game kind of just

10:24Handles with vibes right the two things are true simultaneously one would turn me off of this game and did I I fucking hated my first couple hours with this game and I haven't had time to play it I've played like maybe five hours because it I'll talk about this later tough to fit into to the to the routine. Yeah But like I have not had a single encounter with another player that did not begin and end with one of us shooting and killing each like I have not in our graders that I played a little bit of you always have that moment when you roll up on someone like hey I'm chill in this game There's like there is a dedicated hey, I'm chill button that you could do you could just like save like friendly friendly But like it's never a big just fucking drop you because the time to kill is insanely short. So why not? And to it just kind of seems to be the The weird in grain behavior in this community where there is no doubt You are going to shoot and you're gonna kill people. There's a class that is basically just a kind of hunter of other classes Which is very interesting, but what makes that not so bad is that the game gives you so many ways to like

11:28Soft in the blow of that there are sponsored loadouts that you can get for free That will just like fill you up with some basic shit and you can go out there and if you die It's like eh whatever if you live usually you'll get a reward from that sponsor So that's great There's a whole class that you don't equip loadouts at all. So you're not going in and losing a bunch of stuff That class is just kind of about going in there solo picking up what you can and and getting out of there So like this this hang up I have in my mind of like too stressful I don't want to work to get a bunch of shit and then lose it or You know, I don't want to go down on the map and find something dope and then get killed like the game kind of has an answer For all of that stuff and I don't know it is what has made me want to keep playing the game It is the single most sort of like defining feature of of the game so far to me. We're where I've kind of run I don't know how to approach this necessarily because I don't want to come off as negative because there are certainly no no fresh fresh go Go full throw it on this you I I want to hear like your real opinion cuz

12:30I had a journey this game also has huge Problems that I do what I get into but the game is Unquestionably I played a lot for this podcast and in general played a lot of video games Maybe top five worst onboarding games. I've ever played in my life like yeah horrible indesernable onboarding where the UI makes no sense You don't know where you need to look for your inventory or where quests are or assignments are or what these people are that are talking to you and why they're talking to you It requires a good I would say two hours of like someone in this case Chris plant Walking you through each and every screen and where you should be looking and what icons mean and which things to pick up and what not to pick up And if you don't have that I guess you could probably watch a YouTube video for an hour but Christ for it for even the fact that like bungee Made destiny and spent a long-ass time getting the onboarding of destiny at a really good place

13:35Came up with like six different onboarding solutions. They kept trying to nail it and here It feels like they did not even try and in its place is Genuinely one of the most stunning games to look at and also one of the most interesting UIs to look at but from a actual like navigating at standpoint horrendous like really bad There's there's a question of like what's the loop of the game the loop of the game is obviously like an extraction shooter Okay, I go down I pick stuff up the question of like what do I prioritize picking up so my inventory space is like super duper low Okay, well, okay, I got out. I got a bunch of stuff What do I do like what do I do with this? There's a there's an upgrade screen But I can't really get oh, I need 12 unstable biomast Jesus Christ like that stuff is so there is no visible care it for Most of that sort of early period of the game and so you're just kind of playing because it's up the guns feel good I would actually say there are there's a carrot and there's about 30 other carrots and you're in the middle of them and you're like

14:38Yeah, which character while you're getting shot at by robots the what I'll point to an example that I think would have been better Which is another extraction shooter The game is hell divers two hell divers two has three upgrade resources common Where ultra rare whatever the fuck it was called Uh, and this game seemingly has 30 and There's only one resource that you really want early in the game and it's unstable diodes. I want to say I don't know what they're called But you're drowning in other things and if the game was just kind enough to like throw you a bone and like highlight the things that you need for an upgrade For example like those are the sorts of things that I think would make the onboarding a lot. I Yes, I I have theories about all of this one I had a very simple onboarding experience, but I increasingly think it was rare I think it was like I just was playing with the right people and it all felt like natural and it was definitely people giving me the yachting onboarding experience Sure and not the game itself

15:42the The thing that you're talking about fresh with hell divers where it's like well You have these three things and how much simpler that is I think what they're trying to do is they're trying to solve for the fact that Everybody is splitting the same loot so with you not having a ton of inventory and they're being a wide variety of resources The odds that you need the same thing as your other players need at any given point are lower and therefore like you're gonna grab These things out of the bin. They're gonna grab those things. It's gonna all life equal out The other thing and I'm not saying this is a defense. I'm just saying like no, no, I'm just saying that they put in the game They further the thing of like what items do I need? You can go into the upgrade chart and then manually pick an item and then mark it and then it will show up in the game when you go They are and will even tell you which areas of the game have that that material what have been cool for the game to tell me that The weird thing is the game does at a certain point tell it you in big print like it comes up as like a whole screen that you have to pop out of

16:49And even when it tells you it it doesn't really tell you how it works So it's like hey, you should probably go and mark your gear and it's like yeah, what does that mean like yeah Tell me more that the I struggle a lot with the with the loot economy of this game I I still feel like I'm just playing it because it's kind of fun I have gotten good enough now that like when I'm in a team of three and I roll up on another team of three runners Like I actually feel pretty good about my chances. I can hang in there At again with seven runner eliminations last night. I felt pretty fucking good about that and that's fun for me I don't feel like I am getting cooler guns or attachments that are making those guns like noticeably more particularly stronger I'm not unlocking news like Abilities or anything like that. I guess it's the perks that you're working for with the it's the perks right there's and the perks are Extremely helpful and they go across all of the characters it'll be like inventory space more inventory space Your heat which is like the way that the game keeps you from just sprinting the whole time

17:53That that is improved. There's upgrades that just improve the rook, which is the solo only Go into a middle of a match class Disguise yourself as a robot NPC and try to fucking murk other players and get out with the much more limited time limit that you have That's how the rook class works and it's fucking cool and sometimes the only thing I can play because I will set as a set aside 30 minutes to play this game to knock out a match, which is 30 minutes and then I'll get my clock clean 10 minutes in And be like well, I don't have time for another full match It's rook time bit time to get in there and just get nasty like but those upgrades Are are the most meaningful thing I think that I am sort of chasing down it is a far cry from There's this exotic I'm trying to get or I'm trying to like get enough resources to unlock this class feature or I think there are class Chores that is like a type of equipment that do kind of modify the what is there seven different classes that you can equip But like I'm saying like I've been playing this game. I've played maybe it doesn't match as I've gotten okay at it

18:55I do not feel like I am working towards anything super exciting or that I have found anything where I've been like oh god Damn yeah, I'm gonna use this gun until I inevitably am killed and someone takes it from me Maybe that is a I don't do a lot of ranked play Maybe if I'm like moved up the ladder a bit I do think the loot drops in general are more kind of desirable, but like I don't know I just it doesn't excite me which also means if I die and I lose shit It's like yeah, I didn't really give a shit if I lost my unstable biomass That's a pain in the ass because I'm trying to get in like my heat reduction perk upgraded, but like I don't know I don't know if that gets better Chris you have played you have played more than me So maybe you are finding yeah, I mean the exciting guns and you should like the answer to that is not exciting It's like it will help you survive more so on top of I'm being able to upgrade these like works these permanent Buffs you also unlock the ability to buy items They are significantly better so you can buy a shield Do you start with the lowest possible shield in this game to the point that it's barely even there and barely effective and

19:59You can start every time you drop by being able to buy a much much much better shield for relatively cheap Those are the the kind of I don't know about relatively cheap man I feel like I'm always dying for credits You I mean that's yeah as you as you get on you will be finding better weapons Which you can cash out for like more money, but that it's it's not a a sexy You know growth trajectory, right? It's like you get to live a little bit longer. I I agree with you I'm I am largely playing it just because it's fun like I I am treating this I Fresh I think I talked to you about this like a single player rogue like that happens to be trapped inside of an extraction shooter universe Yeah, I have these goals that I am doing as if we're a single pair campaign and I'm largely Avoiding other human players unless I know I have the jump on them and because the time to kill is so fast in this game You get the jump on somebody you're gonna knock them down. That's it

21:01Which I love because I am could not stand playing a game like halo or even destiny where if I got the jump on somebody Often they would just kill me because I had not grinded enough hours to like have the weapons that I needed to bring them down It's right the time to kill was just much longer Yeah, but as a result that means that it is not always about skill It is about who has the best weapon and it is it also it also lends itself to a general Sense of paranoia that you will have the whole time that you play this game Especially when you make your way to an extraction point which you have to activate wait about a minute and then it will turn It'll light up and then you can step near it and you have to stay near it for 10 seconds before you can extract and Half the time. Yeah, there is somebody camped out hiding with a shotgun waiting to fucking Purferate you or a thief with their nasty little drone. Oh my god I found a fucking cool like upgrade and as I was getting X-filled out I heard

22:03And I was like what the fuck I looked out it was on the ground and I picked it up again and I heard And they yorked it out and then I teleported away. I was like, no, please no Can we talk about the classes? Yeah Yeah, I think we actually probably played mostly different ones which should make it for interesting Discussion, I think they are interesting right comparing this to a destiny, right? Which was always struggled with how they are balancing between PvE and PvP and people on both sides of the album Like kind of pissed off most of the time about the decisions that they were making to benefit the other side This feels entirely kind of PvP balanced and as a result, there's not these like huge dramatic like You know, oh man if you're running warlock you got to do Sunsinger because this is like the meta The powers are like a lot more kind of like subtle right? There's a triage class that can Drop a little healing drone out and when you heal yourself it heals your allies to and then you have an ult the where you shoot out like

23:04prods to Recessitate someone instantly or found this out yesterday. You use it to absolutely destroy an enemy If you're in like a tunnel fight and you launch those down the the hallway you will you will clear them out But it's not like those take a long time to recharge. I think I really Yeah, I think that's so it's not like you're throwing them down left-right in center and that's true of like all the class I think that's the biggest difference with destiny is Destiny what I was used to is like I could use my class ability every eight seconds and here It's like once a minute if you're lucky a lot of that stuff takes a really long time So you have to be smart about using it and I I have like kind of locked it So I've been playing as a sassin which is the like sneaky class I mostly play it defensively. I'm sure there's a very aggressive way to play a sassin where you go invisible and like run up on people Mostly it'll be like oh they got the jump on me. I'm going invisible or I'm gonna drop smoke It's a great ocean, but it's a great ocean button and and it's worked out like a few times where we were extracting and I dropped a smoke bomb And it saved everyone. There was another time where I think I was alone and there was a whole squad that wiped out plant and the other

24:11Many Hill moment you were you playing last night and all of us got down and he I was like fresh rush run run run and he went and Assessened but then just went and hit in a corner like literally five feet away It was like I took I took two right turns and then ran to the nearest corner and went invisible and crouched and the that's great and the whole squad just walked right past me and it was love it cool So I like those moments. I think those moments are good it For me I like the power fantasy of using powers more than I do the gunplay So it is kind of a bummer that's like oh I have to save this invisibility for when I really need it I understand there's a reason for that from a balanced standpoint, but it's just Yeah, you know, it's a little bit of a drag that it just takes a little bit of fun out and plan I know you talked about thief in the last episode, which sounds quite fun. You mainly you mainly play Yeah, thief is what I mean you have the thing that you were talking about a drone that you can use to scout spaces and also use to like Steel things rather oh as a scout. It's incredible I feel like the player bases gotten wise and like they hear the sound and immediately start looking for the drone in the sky to shoot

25:15But you can tag people while you are flying around with the little like loot drone and Then be able to get the get the drop on them. Yeah, pretty incredible another fun thing that I'm not sure if they will keep it in or not But you can put a claymore or a proximity mine on the drone Cool. Yeah, and then you can start chasing people with it, which is great But the other power of what the other two things about the deep is you can put on a visor that shows you the color of gear Inside of every box and does it through walls I'll tell you I love most about that is it just lights up where the boxes are because they are a lot like the other non-interactive boxes Which is another at sometimes I play thief just because I get so fucking fed up of like running around a whole station not finding any Containers at all and being like I know they're here. I know that they're here I had a quest yesterday that was find this key card from this commander pick it up and then scan the nearby crate and there were About 30,000 crates within spitting distance and

26:16Eventually like plant I guess just walked on it, but There's no indication of what that thing is really tough to find some of that shit I yeah, I that the ability is like yeah, super duper you that sounds very useful. I Think this game is very doing very interesting things. I don't think this is my game like as a genre And I think a lot of it is just because of the amount of focus required You know to some extent we look at a multiplayer gaming It's like just key hangout time with your friends, right and plant was saying this earlier like it is not a Hangout game because there's so much communication that has to happen for minutes a minute to be successful That there's like no opportunity to actually have a conversation with anyone That being said there's a lot of people that like want to Like go like fucking tactical hardcore and good for them like that's this game is like you can go fucking beast mode with it and be really successful It's it's it is if I if I were in a different place in my life

27:20I would play this game probably a lot. I find it very enjoyable to play I actually haven't played it with people. I know yet. I've only played in like groups And I've had some actually genuinely pretty great like teamwork Encounters that harken back to like you know pick up groups for destiny raids and stuff like that That's really really great when it happens. I would love to play it with friends We tried to set up a session three or four different times that I was unable to make work due to mostly kid interruptions and so like it's simply incompatible I do think it takes a little bit too long to queue into a match unless you're playing as a rook again Why sometimes I'll just dip in as the nasty solo boy because like I know there's not going to be a queue It's gonna be a shorter match. It is tough for me to sit down and like play a game for you know 30 40 minutes However long it takes me to get my load out and shit together before I queue into like it's yeah There's no pausing obviously here. It's a multi-perky. Yeah, obviously So it's it's I've really been enjoying it

28:22And I've been struggling with it because like there's stuff about it. I definitely think as as much sort of Early release time as this game had like it's weird some of the things that haven't been sort of addressed seem kind of weird to me The fucking aesthetic is through. Yeah amazing the the the music and sound that plays just in the like lobby is so supportive and Fucking weird and like ASMR You'll be like listening to it and then you'll hear just a weird atonal plucked string that like has nothing to do with anything Like what the fuck is going on? I thought I had like a a chrome tab open that like had started playing some like add But it was just the game like getting getting weird with it like all that stuff is so so so cool It's a swing man and and I'll say I For beginners that just want to fuck around a little bit play rook I actually like now that I've played more of it just to like wet your feet a little bit

29:23You're gonna die a lot, but like a whole lot just figure out like what the UI elements are when you're playing with other people I think it moves too quickly to like really absorb a lot of that stuff. Yeah It'll also take you a long time to figure out like what guns you like yeah like some of that Some of that I mean it does the gunplay does feel similar to destiny a little heavier a little slower maybe but like The the the feel of the guns like they obviously they know what the fuck they're doing in that category But like I it took me not until very very recently did I start to like pick up a gun and kind of know like This isn't like I want that like battle rifle. I want that like semi-automatic Rifle or the bully SMG like I know some of this stuff now all that stuff just takes a Wild to kind of and I don't know figure out figure out what you like and what's worth kind of like chasing what's worth going for There's definitely homework. It's a homework kind of game It's gonna take a while and for people that don't have the time or patience and I'm certainly to some extent one of them

30:25You just need to be aware of that going in yeah, yeah, I I mean I Agree and I disagree with that and just in terms of like people who are considering this all of this is true If you're gonna play this game Competitively and I wonder if this is where the difference between y'all having so much experience with destiny comes in first of me And your expectations of like how to invest in one of these games because for me Almost none of this is true. I've been playing it in like 15-minute burst because that's about how long around is I Have not had to do much homework because I'm kind of just doing whatever the quest line says well But you had you also had a personal person guiding it for the first maybe like hour and a half Yeah, and then a few other matches, but then a lot of a solo. I just I I think all of this is true if you are going and you have a lot of experience with multiplayer games I am just Prepared to be surprised by like my experience with this game is so the opposite of the experience that

31:28people who love these sorts of games have and I think that is Strange like it's just I think I think it is a reflection of the fact that I do not play this game So I don't have all the baggage of like how to play these games well I don't think I'm measuring like it was this successful or was this just me like having fun I don't know like what the the rub was there. I mean even we talked about rook, but like I Never shoot and anybody is a rook like to me rook is just like a scavenge It's a stealth scavenging Oh, man, if you get the drop on someone who thinks you're a normal ass NPC and then you start moving Decidedly unlike an NPC and watch their being get freaked. It's pretty good I would recommend getting nasty with the rub I might I feel like I would love to check in on this game in like a year right and see If maybe the economy is a little bit more exciting and you know, whatever But so much of this

32:30genre and really any kind of like live service game I guess this kind of like fits into that sort of category is Like will it be around in a year? That's what I was gonna say I know that that's like tough to I Generally don't sort of go for that kind of prognostication of like oh who know it but like well here's what I'll say I just chat it's sitting at 91 on like this deem activity Well, I'll say they're at 50 around 50,000 peak concurrence per day right now And I guarantee when Sony bought bungee knowing that they were working on their next shooter and it was gonna be all online They were expecting much higher than 50,000 peak concurrence. That's just on steam. Obviously. It's on consoles as well But yeah, I'm sure they were expecting more of a phenomenon right out of the gate Yeah, there's three times as many people playing our greater like yeah, and that's an older much more established game But like I I don't know man I'm a little I'm a bit concerned

33:32Yeah, yeah with the Concord and the What was the more recent one that just got asked? Yeah, I don't know I think these are all like such different things and I worry about Comparing every online game being compared to this and it being a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy The game sold over a million copies. Yeah, it has the number is going up like I don't know I just I think it's more the the investment if someone's making an investment whether that's a time investment or whether it's a literal monetary investment and I'm gonna buy skins or whatever it is sure You want to know if the game's gonna be around any year like yeah I also think a lot of this just comes down to that like reputation stuff that we talked about you know at the top of the bit because The reviews have been like pretty positive for this game I think it has a very positive score right now on steam and I I don't know I was surprised when I saw that because of the just Pure disdain that that that folks out for marathon and everything it kind of

34:36Represented so like I don't know. I maybe it's maybe it's maybe it is having slow start I think the the gap that they have to close and if they are running into now is the Said we've done a totally different type of shooter before we've gone from the competitive multiplayer to the Living game in the most title shooter and we it felt like our fans followed us and now we're doing that again and what they're Finding is that just like Both the y'all hardcore Destiny 2 players who almost didn't play this game Maybe wouldn't have played this game if not for this podcast right right and I think that is Pretty common. I think there are a lot of people who played destiny who see an extraction shooter and they're now even older and they're like Wait, so you want me to get even more hardcore as I am no, no, thank you and that's the recurring thing that you see is like one People play it. They're like oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it I can get into this but that's a big ask for a lot of your fan base especially as they get older and

35:39You know, they're playing fewer and fewer games to say hey We need you to try a genre that you're already afraid of and the first five hours are gonna do practically nothing to use those concerns. Yeah, that's that's a big ask which again is why I get to the like Weirdly I think the people who are finding this game First in these early stages are either other extraction shooter people are weirdos like me who have none of that baggage You're like I don't fucking know like to me. This is one that you just like that ghost in the shell shit You're like all about that like easier. Honestly Infinitely easier to parse this game than to parse destiny to Getting everything that you are describing was Absolute hell in yes sure. Yeah, it was miserable every time I played that game with y'all and it was fun because I had I was hanging out with you, but like dear God if I had to hear about a new type of like Vendor that I needed to go with you. Mm-hmm. I was I was just completely barfed out

36:41But yeah, but again, it's it's all expectations, and I think Bungie in deciding to do this There has to be this moment now where they're like oh well We we chased this genre and it turns out our core fan base This is not exactly what they were looking for but isn't I mean yeah, I feel like a lot of people could have Said a lot of people could have guessed that I think that they first and now I don't know I will I want Bungie is such a like The developers that like raw Tunnage of talent at at bungee and like Institutional knowledge about what makes Shooters feel good because I do think they make the in my opinion the best feeling shooters in the business Good thing thing that that that stuff is like all there I'm and I'm like I think that it has been best executed when the people making it are clearly like passionate about the thing that they are that they are making and I'm sure that there's lots of people who were passionate about about making this game

37:44And I think that that some of that does come through. I mean the fact that it's such a swing is I think It's a huge such a swing and I but at the same time like Destiny 3 also would have been a bigger swing and in my opinion probably a safer best for Sony for like Still happening. Griffin. Yeah. I mean Winned like your wife Cooper get off the pot on that one man. It's it's that that that spring hair isn't as live that I think that's the bigger question about the speculation of marathon's life that I'm curious about is that Bungie is not that big of a studio Yeah, it is not big enough to make destiny 3 and make marathon Right skill at the same time. So like They they they they could be in pre pro for sure and maybe or even an early design, but like I Think that that is where the bigger decision has to get made about the future of what bungee wants to do Yeah, sure that's tough I'm that said the lore fucking rocks destiny lore sucks don't you fantasize?

38:44Destiny or fucking rules do you do not talk to me about destiny? No, no, if you want that hard sci-fi you watch a 15 hour long. My name is bifucking full lore breakdown of sword logic and don't What part of the nerds between fantasy and hard sci-fi with their space operas? It's great. I could talk about this game for another hour Yeah, I think it does a lot of really interesting shit and it Interest me more than our graders. I'm not talking about the quality of the thing because like I don't know I think our graders honestly has fewer rev edges about it, but like There's so much interesting stuff even when you get killed there are times where I'm like, that's it Okay, that's cool. Wow. We even haven't even talked about no no the so quirm that Creates all of your your your cyber and I So cool so so cool The and like I don't know this game's been out for not that long and there is all of this kind of like player etiquette

39:44Like happening. Yeah, Brooks like I went on the discord and there's just like a rook channel on there where people are just like Here's the fucked up shit. I did here's the dreams I crushed like there's just like a lot of that stuff has already kind of Taken root and I think that that's also very interesting I don't know me I don't know if this is the extraction shooter that makes me like fall in love with the genre or anything like that But I am glad I played it and I do want to play some more of it if we could ever actually get all together In the same room and play yeah Griffin to rap if I have a rook straight I want to share which is I had I thought the rook meta was shifting towards rooks protect other rooks that were all just Vultures that you know scavenging It was for about a day. It felt like I was coming across some really happy scenarios and then I got to an X-Fill Loden X-Fill it was probably by a ton of the NPC robot characters big big beastly robots and As I am waiting behind a shipping container. I see on the roof

40:48maybe like 100 yards away from me a rook with a sniper rifle I'm like, what are we doing here? We're both rooks. He knows what I am Not Adam. He fires at me. I don't fire back. I come back out. He doesn't fire at me. Okay, we get it Night we're not here to fight Put on my robot mask. I walk over to the X-Fill site. We're all good. He's there. I'm there And then I see that gun raise Sprint to get into the X-Fill site. I get down to whatever you can X-Fill in this game if you're down. That's all okay five four Three two he fucking executes me. Oh Right before the X-Fill pops not even have time to take your shit Exactly just Slime you just to slime you that's I mean, that's a real one. It was it's bad when you like know like oh man I'm gonna show up on a highlight video this sucks. Yeah, don't try don't don't trust a brook basically ever That's good. That's my number one marathon pro tip

41:52Break. Yeah, let's take breaking. We'll answer some some reader man Crack that back Okay, so we've got a bunch of reader male coming at you Some of this is from a couple weeks ago, but we wanted to cover as much as we could because we've missed a couple About pacopia In that episode we mentioned that this was one of the only maybe the only Pokemon game that does not have Pokemon in the title And as far as we can tell there have been two thank you readers Brian wrote in to say that Pockin tournament does not have Pokemon title and Joe wrote in to say that detective Pikachu also does not Yes, yes, you are right Case wrote in said my partner and I have been loving Pockopia this past week We've both been playing on our own switch to's and I'll usually take the handheld shift Which can be more uncomfortable in a longer play a session. Does anyone have good recommendations for grips while in handheld mode? I've continued to use the satisfy Zen grip to They make pretty good grip what's nice about as you can dock it, which is a rare

42:57Community I know there are a bunch of grips out there I don't know if you guys have used any but that is the one now, but I need one I I've been playing so much Pockopia still and it after a long sash in handheld mode I could feel it man I will say the one thing that I've been doing more that I very rarely did with the switch one is I'll put it on a desk and Use a pro controller and because of the larger screen size. It's like actually viable and enjoyable. So that's another alternative We have another ladder this one comes from Christian since it came up You might already have answered this, but do I need to play desk stranding before playing desk stranding too? I'm excited to play the sequel on PC, especially because I've never experienced any kajima game What do you guys think? I mean it helps, but I've never finished that stranding one nor do I plan to so like it's a big fucking ask There is ample like Recap shit like from the main menu you can recap the entire plot of the first game if anything I think it tells a better story because it's so focused on the actual plot beats of the first game rather than getting lost in the actual game

44:03Which that does stranding sickos may disagree? I don't I don't think it's worth it. I play the whole game I prefer desk stranding one as a game. I think you should play desk stranding too first Destraining two will teach you how to actually just read the game and then playing desk stranding one is almost like playing on hard mode because it's It's a way less forgiving. It's also the story is You should play desk stranding and also I would say just largely not as much fun because like combat is a mess in Destraining one whether intentionally or not It depends on what you want from fun If you if what you're wanting is the combat and stuff definitely play desk stranding two. Yeah, desk stranding one is much more of Yes, it's like a stealth game with deliveries. Yes, stealth and construction. I do love it But yeah, no, too. I think is much more approachable We have another letter. This one comes from Samantha Definitely recommend sway the Spyro 2's co-op. It works really well It's super fun and a different way to engage the game and there are cards and events specific to multiplayer that change things up to keep it a bit more interesting

45:07My spouse and I've been playing on the couch at night with his steam link and my steam deck That sounds like a good way to do it. That does sound fun Yeah, no, I want I'm I'm eager to do it. I still think I'm gonna wait Maybe I'll save that as like the exciting new thing I know is going to be there when I you know the game is out in full access Yeah, it seems like a really fun just multiplayer like Just the idea that you're like all sharing strategies and things like that would be pretty interesting and really no one in the genre has attempted it So it's cool to say This last letter comes from Mike I'd like to respectfully disagree with plant on the differences between a battle royale and an extraction shooter We were talking about marathon again last week. I think plant was making the point that they're Similar, I don't remember your initial point Anyway, for me the anxiety of an extraction shooter and a battle royale anxiety are not the same I think the biggest difference is that you start with all the same equipment and a battle royale and RNG is important for your kit Which takes a bit of the pressure off and an extraction shooters you either go in with good gear and the fear of losing it or bad gear

46:11And you have an automatic disadvantage This gameplay loop is a lot harder for me and it seems like a larger risk of wasting time rather than loading up a battle royale Yeah, I think that gets to what we were talking about earlier about the structure of marathon is if you Go into an extraction shooter and you think your experience is about the loot. It's gonna be I I think a pretty miserable experience Yeah, the loot is the bonus that the experience is the reward and the what I said last week was that You have a better chance of actually quote winning in an extraction shooter of getting out than you do in a battle royale Just numbers wise. So it depends on what your what your goal is But I I completely understand this point if if you play these games and you're you're Where your brain or your heart tugs you at is is the items is the loot. Yeah, an extraction shooter is gonna be a Big-ask Yeah, I I still think this game could do more to try and have its cake and eat it to a little bit

47:15But it does also like I love the sponsored kits like I know That there is a way of playing this game without having to risk the shit that I have and just get in there and get some more Experience fighting and like find some some more materials for my upgrade like I really do think that this has not been nearly as big of a concern for me as I as I thought it was going to be yeah I think that's right I don't mention anyone been watching play in Did you see project Hill Mary Chris? I did we talk about that last week Prush unfortunately we only saw the beginning of it. So I won't I wasn't I was full for anybody else you see that I'll just say that it was a very enjoyable movie and it's so nice to see a Big-budget blockbuster that's like Beautiful as in yeah visually interesting and has great framing the use lots of practical effects their bright colors It doesn't have that that kind of sludge you paste you look that we've come to expect from a lot of big-budget stuff

48:18that is not called avatar and And rank causing the the most beautiful special effect of all, you know, you know look at that face In sweaters and off. He's just he's got it all going I've been watching the I think it's the fourth season of Shorzy on Hulu This is the Canadian non-professional hockey moot show From the creator of letter Kenny and it's great. It's like weirdly warm-hearted and sweet mixed with like 8 EDM and like Kind of shameless sexuality stuff, but I don't know I capital S shameless not like the rest fresh dick is like judging No, no, yeah, it's correct with people with their shameless. Yeah, yeah, right They they don't hold back is what I'm saying and that's fine good good on them But yeah, it's really well written and lovely characters, and I'm always happy to see it come up again I've been playing a few things, but I think we've talked about all of them very very very I got quite into

49:24following Russ's recommendation And like that like that one a lot very self-contained Which I which I do appreciate from time to time from my from my incremental games A lot of pokopia just a lot. I finished the main story of it and now like I don't know I've just sort of been undergoing projects on the palette town with Henry We just finished up building a huge nine room apartment complex for all the EV and evolutions In palette town It's just like I don't know. I haven't fucked around building stuff in a game like this said that since like you know early Minecraft Days So I'm very much enjoying that played a little Diablo 4 You can play as the new paladin class if you pre-order the the next expansion which I think is out soon-ish But I don't know that I've played enough to like really comment all that gave us changed Though thing I really do want to talk about on Amazon Prime the new season of last one laughing UK

50:30This is the Truly truly brilliant kind of concept for a show a reality show with comedians and they were not the first to sort of come up with it If you're familiar or documental the Japanese television program. It's very much the same They lock 10 comedians in a room for six hours and if you laugh once you get a yellow card If you laugh another time you get a red card and you are ejected from the competition and If you watch taskmaster, you're gonna know about 75% of the cast on on this season Sam Campbell is on it. He's a fucking stone cold killer Bob Mortimer is back from season one who is Pound for pound. I think the One of the funniest living human beings Diane Morgan who plays philomena cunc from cunc on earth. Wow is on this season Mel It's a really really wild list and from the jump it is just like

51:31Absolutely astonishingly funny so many people taking so many heavy swings at each other trying to make each other laugh And then having to literally stand up to remove themselves physically from like The the location where the jokes are taking place before they laugh like to me. There is nothing funnier than that So so I think there's only three episodes of it out so far no episodes are coming on Wednesdays and I'm waiting with baited breath because it is hysterical Plant what if we talked about this week. Oh, we talked about so much we talked about marathon We talked about shoresy. We talked about last one laughing the envelope for pacopia and project Hill Mary That's a lot of stuff a lot of stuff covered a lot of Stuff if you if you only hear us talk about more stuff May I suggest going to patreon.com slash the besties and joining our patreon It helps us out a lot and you also get access to sweet boco and Episodes of the resties and just all kinds bracket battles episode. We have a very good one coming at you

52:35We just did a besties We just did a resties on a very cool racing game called screamer And then we have bracket battles coming at you First week of april, which is a really fun one. I'm very excited patreon.com slash the besties again Do you want to shout out some members? Oh, yeah, absolutely. We have Sorry, I'm gonna book for this syroja b. I'm sure there's a better way to pronounce that but I'm gonna just go with that Eric are Jacob M and just the letter v Also be vendetta could be those aliens from the 80s. We don't know could be um Thank you all so much for supporting us and thank you to our dear listeners now for listening to us next week I don't know that we have a game selected. I'm actively working on it But it has not been fully confirmed. So we're gonna keep it up in the air. It'll be a mystery episode Okay Join us for a mystery game Next for next week That new legacy of cane game comes out March 31st. That might be fast. We'll see we'll figure it out. We'll figure it out So join us next week as we play more games and we talk about them to you for you

53:40With you Here on the besties because shouldn't the world's best friend take the world's best games You Besties