March Madness Preview with Jason Goff: Dybantsa, Peterson, Acuff & More

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never had a college team in the tournament. Play music. This is the Dominique Fox Werf Show.

Welcome to the Dominique Fox Werf Show. I'm Dominique Fox Werf. We have the Hall of Famer with us

today. Jason Golfen, of course, Charlie Kravitz. We're doing some tournament talk. Your research

for this show. I got excited. I started feeling that late 90s tingle again. College basketball.

I started getting close. I started remembering Eric Montross and the boys get excited about

back when college basketball. We give me all the yeah. I don't know. I was a Carolina fan. My dad

grew up in Charlotte. And so Montross comes to mind. You remember with it, Donald Williams,

they're shooting at it. Tom Williams, yeah. Dakota, Dante, Calabria. We're going name for name.

We're going name for name. No, I mean, as a kid who raced home to George Lynch, right? George

Lynch, right? Yeah. George Lynch. Yeah. I've raced home to watch the ACC tournament back in the day.

Mike Patrick screaming at me. I'm getting jacked up. Yeah, man. Shout out to all of them.

Jeff McGinnis. Jeff McGinnis, a notoriously great reputation.

Eric Montross and I went to the same school.

So my dad was in the military. So we were stationed in Indianapolis for two years.

And the school that I went to was public school that had a kindergarten and a high school.

And he was a high school. It had like nothing to go wrong there, but he was a high school student.

And we had a Puerto Rican teacher who was like friends with Eric. She was our teacher,

but she was like friends with Eric. It was Lawrence North was the name of the school.

She brought Eric to class. Can you imagine like what we thought a he was because we're a

kindergarten. He's a seven foot, like a real legit seven footer. It was absurd. That's like a

memory that I hold on to just because it was so I know they made people like that. All right,

P. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's not in the league anymore. Yeah, Eric Montross. Wait a minute.

We haven't fun. You just killed Eric Montross again. On this episode of the WWE

show, we do Deadpool's Charlie. We got this here. You know, we know we know that Dominic didn't

Ed forgotten that Eric Montross was out of the league. Hey, hey, I love the fact that that's how

you wrap up the the Eric Montross story. By the way, like this, you know, this is also just shows

the our our our slight age gap is Carolina fans because I would have gone like Jackie manual,

Jawad Williams, Sean May, uh, Rashad McCants. So you lost it. You wouldn't even go.

Ray Felton, Melvin Scott era. You wouldn't go back house. I asked to early respect.

The first one is that slightly too early. It was, uh, it was Vincent Antoine Jamison.

Oh, Vincent Jamison. So that they played in a game that, um, had me in tears for several

reasons as a kid. And there's only been like two or three basketball. Well, sporting events

that I got like a little bit emotional about. And the mission, I grew up a Michigan fan.

Yeah. And what that fan five team did for me as a child where we're on the playgrounds. Like,

all right, I'm Weber, you draw on and these are cats who are what like 10 years maybe older than

not even like this is 91, right? 1991. So I'm yeah, they're like five, six, seven years older than me.

And we we try to emulate what they're doing. Of course, they listened to the same music. They

had the black socks. They had the ball heads and that game, that the national championship game,

Michigan versus North Carolina, where I was in a car. My mom picked that day for us to go somewhere

all on the south side and go to her friend's house. I'm listening to the game on the radio. I'm

pissed. And I'm hearing my favorite team. You know, cause of course what happened with Duke and it

like, I'm hearing my favorite team go down and they say, yeah, that's one of those games where it's like,

you remember that. So there was a rough situation for me because like growing up, of course,

I've rooted for the team and my dad rooted for it. So I was a big Carolina fan and then Michigan came

up and Michigan. I was around at age where I was like, oh, but they're the cool guys and then they went

then they went and played Duke and it was fine. Like, yeah, this is double like my cool young like

black team is going to get Duke. Yes, I want them to win in the national championship and they lost.

And so then the next year, they caught up against Carolina national championship. All my friends

pulled it for the fact off. And I'm like, I got to stay where we brought me here right now.

Stay where we brought me here. That each well. You always want to be rooting for the Carolina

uniforms. I got I do have I have a story of the of a Carolina team making me cry too. I went

to I went to Carolina basketball camp in 03. I have a I have a hat signed by Marvin Williams,

Jawad Williams, Felton, Sean May, Rob Williams. One more autograph I needed every day for

Sean McCann's just staring me in the face and said, hell no. Consistency is key. That's the

Evalon that consistency is key, right? Can't say can't say we didn't treat you like you did back

in the day. You know what I mean? Exactly right. It's kind of better now. It's better now.

That story. It's better. So now you're going to make me think of a time I got turned down for

an autograph by a legend. It made me almost cry. It was a Russell Maryland football camp where

Michael Irving and all these cats were there. And they signed my shirt. And I have one more to get

and I walk over it. I'm a little, you know, it's not no kid. I just did gasses on gaitly stadium

astral turf, which is nothing that like a nine or 10 year old should do. I walk up to them and

when I say Mr. Smith, Mr. Emmett Smith, can you sign my shirt? Get out of here, kid. Not even

like a old school can get by there in me. See? Like he's a good at it, kid. And I actually interviewed him

at the symbol of mention this. And he was like, hey, man, there's a lot of things that happen.

You know what I mean? It was fine. It was fine though. Michael Irving held me down though.

Yeah. Michael Irving held me down. I had a cheeseburger with him. That's amazing.

Oh, again, these people are like, it's this and that's the one thing. People don't change, man.

Michael Irving, I have a cheeseburger with you today. Yeah. Michael Irving, it's great. Anytime he comes

to the city, I happen to run into him somewhere. And every time it's been a similar kind of event.

And Mike, hey, there, there's a talent to making someone feel like you remember them, even though

both of you all know that there is nothing that would have this memory be a tent pole or a

foundational piece of our relationship. I just introduced myself to him four or five times.

And we have acted like, man, it's good to see you, boy. Yeah. How are your mama doing?

You know what I'm saying? It's a talent. It's a talent. I've been on the set with Michael Irving

a number of times that I guarantee you he would do the same thing to me. Oh, yeah. Hey, good to see you again.

He went out with Stephen A. went out and I love him for this. Stephen A quick to get quick to

disarm you with a big time. Oh, quick to. Hey, now this is all brother vernacular. What's that?

It was having a big time. Good to see you. Hey, man. Hey, hey, we are. My account is 4X smaller than

yours. You just call me big time. Big time. Big time. Big time. Big time. The stuff is to

play. You get play also. Yeah, Charlie. What is that? Oh, yeah, but as you know, there's a big,

big dog big fella, particularly if you're formerly husky white. They do boss. Yeah, it's

like they make it up for something. Yeah, for sure. So we should we should get into the tournament

this year because this is. Yeah, let's get it. Stop it. No, I'm sorry. The boss. This is my fault.

But no, this is like like we you were reading about it. We've been talking about it. I think I've

watched more college basketball than NBA this year. And it's like it's really an exciting tournament

partially because of the freshmen, partially because the teams are are pretty established and

really good in college basketball like 20 of the top 22 prospects in this draft are in this

tournament, which is rare. It's not guys that we aren't seeing in alternative paths to the NBA

European basketball. And that's headline. I want to start with the freshman. We'll go through

the Cinderella's and the top seeds. But this is a loaded freshman class with guys like Darren

Peterson, AJ, AJ DeBonza, Cameron Booser, Derrius Acuff, Kingston Fleming, Keaton Wagler,

and the list goes on and on. All of them really have a chance to do something special in the

tournament. And what's what's fun about this is not just the top three guys who seem sort of

established to the top, but with how well Acuff has played 28 points per game since February,

the like Wagler's ability to go nuts. Do you really think that this is one of those tournaments

could that could affect the way that NBA teams feel about the guys at the top of the draft? Not

to skip over all of this stuff, but we see this from time to time where guys go on a like a

Kenba style run or something like that. And for some reason this year feels like

there are a bunch of freshmen that could do it that could do a Carmella or do an AD and really

be holding the trophy at the end of the year. Yeah, I mean, it's because they're a glut of players

that are high profile because normally there's it's just so rare to have so many really talented

players at the same point because normally there's a guy that separates himself and they're like,

it don't really matter what happens, right? You know, like you could not make the tournament

this guy going to be the number one pick. And I think it's pretty clear, right? Or I was not

clear, but the bands have seemed to like pull the head of Peterson a little bit, but they're so

close that I do think that this tournament could could matter. Like if Peterson goes off and they

have a tough path, but if he goes off all the way through this tournament in a way that we know

he's capable of doing, of course, it changes. All the skepticism, all that stuff is gone.

And the same thing for, I mean, I guess it's really just him and the bands. I find it hard to

believe that anybody else could jump them with how they play in the tournament. I disagree. I think

there and the Alabama Arkansas game was the first time I saw a Darius A cup, Judy, like sat down

and watched mine. I just highlights. And I said to myself, like, this is different. And there's

guys who you just feel something different about no matter how many times you got to see him,

like felt that way about Anthony Edwards, like this, you know, Kyrie, of course, like there's

certain dudes who just, all right, this, this is not collegiate level talent. And it's going to make

a difference. I think Darius A cup of junior is going in short order going to be an all-star on

the NBA. And I was saying this about a month ago before he went on this crazy 29 point per game

last month or something that he's had. And I think with all the stuff surrounding Dan Peterson

we're finding out how actually hurt he has been, right? And also some of the social awkwardness

that got a chance to talk to Meyer and Metcalf about like, you know, him admitting to being a loner

and not really being social or, you know, what you would think that a basketball player, a high level

basketball player who's going through the levels would be, you know, in terms of filtration process

and media training and all that other stuff. I think AJ is far and away. Like that's the dude who,

if you give him a decent enough team, you know, you should be competing for something in a half

a decade, right? But I think Darius could jump up there, man. Like decision-making for a volume

shooter is not usually what you see, but his decision-making, his understanding at a moment,

his, now his defense, a lot of people are going to bring up his defense, but he had to stop nobody.

He had to fill that thing up. And, you know what I mean? Like I covered Carmelo's run, right?

Like I was at that final. It's really rare. Yeah, you, you feel it. You understand the vibe.

And, and I think a couple of these guys have that vibe. I love Cameron Booser. I don't think

Cameron Booser is one of those guys. And I can't wait to be wrong because Booz was amazing to

me here in Chicago in terms of availability and stuff. But like, I think Cameron Booz is going to be

a very, very good pro, you know, damn near teeter in on all star level pro for a decade plus.

I think they're like two or three catch though who are that this is, this is like next level might be

one of the best players in the league playing in college right now. And to sit on the a cuff thing

for a second, obviously it's, it's exploded. He had his best game in the SEC tournament,

beating Vanderbilt in the, in the championship game. But he's going to potentially go through

Wisconsin on this run. And this is not the Wisconsin team that you think of of like half court

grinded out Wisconsin. Like this could be a really fun track meet game where we see like video

game numbers. And this doesn't feel like it's, I mean, obviously a cuff is now in the, like maybe

the most venerated in history of dominant freshman guards on, on John, on John Calipari teams.

But doesn't feel like he, he pretty quickly built an old school towel, Cal team, not just like

Kentucky Cal team of five of five of his, but it's like a cuff, a bunch of like really hard

nose dude, hard, hard notes dudes. He would have gotten a Memphis or his UMass teams DJ Wagner

off the bench. And it's like actually built in his image, not quite the way that his,

his like peak one and done Kentucky teams were when they had, you know, Davis, Gil,

kid Gilchrist, Karl Anthony Towns, Devon Booker, et cetera, et cetera.

I mean, looking forward to seeing a cuff try to make this run. But I mean, I guess the,

it doesn't matter necessarily, but I got hung up a little bit on like him jumping those guys.

It's just the wings like their wings. And I don't know what type of numbers he would have to put

up to see him jump them. And I think you're right. Like the Calipari stuff is interesting and

important because those are the normal like protagonists for these tournaments. Like I would give

nothing, or I, I would like nothing more than have these young guys whose names I know and

ability I know make it deep. And then a couple of coaches who you know, like Samson and Calipari,

whose personalities are part of this like that. You forget that, that what makes a lot of this

stuff interesting is that your connection to the people. And sometimes we talk about like the

quality, which the quality matters. No one wants to watch bad basketball. But like the stories

matter too, like the women's basketball had us all in the chokehold because we knew the stories.

There was easy to pick sides. And it was, it was obviously people out there that we cared about

that made us feel things emotionally as soon as we saw them. And it feels like some of that

is in this year's tournament. Even if it's a little manufactured around Peterson, it's like

Peterson has this image of this kind of. I don't think it's manufactured with Peterson. No,

I'm saying that at all. Yeah. Oh, you don't. I'm saying no. I'm saying that some of the reaction

to Peterson is a little manufactured. And that Peterson has become like this picture of load

management and like progressive basketball when it seems like at least maybe you don't believe it,

but it seems like something going on. Yeah. No, no, no, I do believe that's what I'm talking about.

This so we're recording this on Wednesday, March 18th. And this has been like, like coming out

over the last few days. And then the big article was dropped in the athletic today about Darren

Peterson that talked about the fact that first of all, this is guys like a, you know, he's had the

Kobe comparisons. You see it with the bill. Do you see it with like, you know, you don't usually

see six six college guards with like this complete skill set where nothing really needs to change.

And the fact that he can shoot pass understands like, you know, he's the feel on the floor.

But there's athletic article detailed everything he went through, which was he had been training

with Damien Lillage trainer for his last year of high school. He was in incredible shape. He worked

incredibly hard at the beginning of Kansas. And then in September during conditioning went to

the hospital with full body cramps and would not detail how bad it was, but stayed in the hospital.

And that he said it turned his mind into a joystick was the quote about it. And that it like a lot

of him checking out of the games was this and that he's actually talked to teammates who were like,

shut it down. Like you don't need to like pace yourself and get through this. And he's finally

starting to get over and he's played the last, you know, seven games without without having to

ask out. And that sort of messed up this Kansas team a little bit. The three and four in the stretch

because it's basically, you know, integrating a completely new player who's playing like starting

to get into game shape over the course of this. But that to me like, I think that like when you

read that article and maybe that's his press team putting out something about him for the tournament.

But like, it didn't seem fake and having quotes from the other college kids about how hard he's

working. Like he has a knee and opportunity. That's like, he can be. Yeah. I think he was doing

that. Yeah. I was saying like that story to me. So I was saying around it seemed like it had

to be had in the narrative building or tearing down what's going on. I think everybody was

because when I got hit to it and I saw nine games miss because of cramping and I'm like,

that's a pretty, it's a pretty loaded term, right? Like cramping how? Because this isn't the

first time, especially in this city in Chicago, like Carlos Zambrano, who had sion stuff because

he didn't like to drink water. His hand, his arms was seized up and he would, and he would cramp

and he dealt with cramping his entire career. And it was like, you know, this was a different time

where, you know, science and then technology and all the things that we have now, probably like,

it was just drink water. And then you find out maybe there might have been, you know, something

else going on. Like I think everybody is kind of like people who don't just dismiss things.

Because NBA, like basketball period, there's this veil of these guys don't want to play. Like

there's more of that conversation and feeding into that whole rage bait thing that if you don't

want to do any of the background or research on it, you can go, yeah, easily. Oh, you missed nine

games because of cramping. And on top of the fact that he's had this withdrawn, I'm going to say

demean of a personality for a star, his size in college basketball. He needed something like,

I don't remember when Derek Rose, you know, tore his knee up and only things that you were getting

from practices after he came back was he's practicing with, with his players or he's practicing with

his teammates. Why isn't he playing? It's like, well, Derek wasn't going to get in front of a microphone.

I tell you, yeah, by the way, they take care of me. And by the way, I'm going three quarter speed.

And by the way, you want me to come back against, you know, Miami and Boston and all the like,

if you don't have that, that layer, you know, that, and your personality or in your brand with

everybody talks about being a brand. If you're not a polished brand, you can come away not knowing

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Well, let me ask you this because he's the guy who had separated himself by what Scouts had said

before this year from DeBonza and from Booser. And people thought I was like the clear number one

pick that is flip now. DeBonza is the betting odds and obviously you see the athleticism and all that

stuff. But just is Peterson the guy with the most to gain from this tournament because this Kansas

team currently looks a little bit broken and he's getting healthier. And is he the guy where

if he goes on this run for a couple of weeks, you look at him and you're like, oh my god,

this is all-world talent that we were missing because of a serious medical thing that happened

in September. I mean, I think that's absolutely the case. And to clear up what I was saying,

because if you missed it... No, I got you. That was my bad. A lot of other people would have missed

on us to be also. I was saying that the reaction to him is a little bit artificial,

that it's not really based on who he was. It's based on how we interpreted a situation because

we weren't getting much information. But it doesn't matter. He still represents that to some people.

And I want to see him ball. And I think that that's part of the entry. Like I'm looking forward to it

because I want nothing else than him to come down. I guess if he goes for 36 in the first game,

people will say he'd been holding out all year. So it's really a loose, loose. But I think I'll put the

governor on that thing. Yeah, of all these players. Yeah, I think... I don't know. I mean, you mentioned

ACOP. He could make a run. He got a ton of game. What do you think? And I agree with you guys.

Like I think the first three picks are set. I think it's AJ Cam and Dan, right? But I'm talking

about in terms of what's going to happen on the next level. Like the E-Val, to act like the cramping

and all this stuff doesn't go into the E-Val would be crazy, right? We're not talking about

money after a while. I know you guys are going to talk about that at some point. But we're not talking

about a couple of million dollars. We're talking about somebody that's going to be the 10th poll of

your franchise and hopefully lift you from the doldrums if you're sacrament or you're Brooklyn.

Like there's 16s who want these three players. So it's going to go into the E-Val. But and of

course, you know, Caleb Wilson out there in Carolina with the broken hands. Like the memory cabinet.

Yeah. Yeah. Like these are the moments, man. Like I, I, you know, growing up in the 90s big 10,

where you knew, you know, his old team was going to be there. And then you had the five situation.

Hell, you mentioned that North Carolina team. I mean, Luther D and Darren and Illinois, you know,

like there was, there was this attraction to the game because you understood like you mentioned

the storyline. I think that's why the, the, the, the women's game did and has done what it's done

over the last decade or so is because one chalk in the women's game. You ain't got to worry about

too many Cinderella stories. So you know, who's cold? You know, Tennessee is going to be there

for a long time. You know, you kind, you know, South Carolina LSU. Like they're, they're certain schools

and it's cyclical. This feels like one of those vibes where it's like, okay, I may not get to know

some of these top players like we didn't where freshman and sophomore came out. But I also understand

that these second rounders that would have jumped because they got themselves a promise.

Them dudes are staying junior and senior year. And now watching girl and hell, like I got

I got three years left to Southern Illinois University. You feel me? Like you, you can always

jump back into the situation. Now it's going to get a little muddy then like I want to see how

this thing looks three, four years from now. But right now this is this is prime time with all

these young players. But are they staying at those small schools because you mentioned that you're

not going to get a Cinderella that spoils your big names, which like I'm with you some in the women's

game in the women's game. I know in the women's game or last year in the men's game. This was,

this was the first, the first trickle of N I L was we had way fewer upsets. Yeah, the N I L money,

like I think and people have written about this. It's kind of changing the dynamic that I was always

someone who was like, I don't give me too many upsets. But I don't want no upsets. Like a little

a little run every now and then like I remember it, you know, like I'm with you. I want people,

I just went on a whole little rant about how the names I know and the people and the person

I like yeah, but yeah, I want, I don't want to home with Janani. Like give me a little something

every now and then it feels like because once you have a little player show a little spark,

big school will come take them with that money and then you back in the bottom. Yeah. Yeah.

It's fine. You're fine with the bumps. I like some of the unpredictability. Like it's like, so,

we um, like we descended all the way to 16's finally beating ones. And then last year,

you know, the top 16 teams made the sweet 16 all four one seeds. But like to me, the most memorable

game of that tournament last year is like, I think we might remember this for a while with how good

they are in the league is Cooper flag and Concondipple blowing a nine point lead in the final two

minutes to Houston. And that's like the unpredictability of the tournament with them being college kids

that like, I mean, you know, they're trade offs for everything. Of course, I want to see

Darren Peterson play Cameron Booser in the sweet 16 after going through a Rick Patino team.

That would be awesome. With that said, if you also had a 12 seed or a 13 seed, uh,

make a run in this tournament and and some chalk, to me, I don't get the the feeling of like, oh,

it sucks having a 13 seed that makes the elite eight. Like, I don't feel that to be a fate

of complete because it's like, it's such a small sample in this one game tournament that's such

there's such a fun unpredictability about it. And like you're looking at some of the teams now,

Arizona is one of the favorites in this. They don't shoot threes. And you have this 40 minute

college game where threes are happening more than ever. And you're like, I'm not saying they're

going to lose by any means. They're one of the, you know, big favorites with Duke. We might see

them in a in just like the chalkiest championship game. But you circle that one. You circle the

Florida one. You just got the breaks beat off by Vandy and the SEC tournament. And you're like,

huh, might this year be a little bit different? Might last year have been like a tiny bit of

full school that once you're just going to roll all the way to the final four. I'm not mad at the, uh,

the, uh, the Cinderella stories because now I look at it a different way before I was like,

hey, I was here for Ali Froot Minesh, you know, a university in Northern Iowa. You know, I was here

for some, I was here for George Mason. But I also remember like, I was here for George Mason too.

Like I was sitting there like, all right, gang. I got a bunch of football players on the right here.

Like can we, can we make a shot now? I look at it like you got to, you got to switch to my friend.

Now for me, I look at it as, all right, if you are a team that goes further than your,

your school, your conference or anybody would have thought, how long is this coach going to be

able to lie to these kids that he'd go stay here? Right? Like you, you get to, you, you can start seeing

they all leave it. They don't, he don't got a lot to them. We all leave it. You wonder,

I wonder if the pregame speech is, let's all get out of this hell hole, man. Like we play good.

We all sign a new deal. I need you. I need, I need my Stevens to say that to Shelvin Mac and

Gordon. I'm like, all right, that's too far back. That's before NIL. It's like we tell you to,

let's say that happened. Yeah. Hey, look, we all could get the hell out of this hell hole. None of us

want to come back here, right? Let's fall out and get a deal. I'm a good deal. The water boy

going to get a deal. We just got a big deal. Yeah, the huddle like, hey you, you've been complaining

about that food, right? Hey, hey, well, you see who you're about to be? Houston, okay?

They got a lot of money. And he even spent the money before it was cool. All right, let's

get about it here. Ready? Break. Hey, man, it's cool though. It's cool. I did have a

problem. Like, I, I, the college basketball for me, people know, like, I've dubbed it the,

the, the festival of misjump shots and people hate it every year. The first, the first

shot that goes up, I say, hey, guys, welcome to the festival of misjump shots. And they

rain down on me because this is their, this is their, they told them 500, right? Like,

this is their Super Bowl. Like all the guys and girls who cover college basketball, they

get real serious around it. You don't know who Steven R. F Austin's point guard is. I'm

like, I'm sorry, yay. I don't like the people, the people who used to use college basketball

as like their, as their golden or their holy grail to knock the NBA. Like, you can't

get any more because they get played. So what day, they like wrestling tournament guys now,

what day, what, what they picked down to be like, hey, these guys are in it for the love.

The National Dodge ball league that me and my son watched at 1 a.m. the other day,

I'm like the old show to be honest with you. Like, there's got to be something else out there,

right? Let me, let me just introduce you to Premier League lacrosse. Not, not, not just lacrosse.

Premier League lacrosse. No, no, no, honestly, those are just the league where it just

brawler should be retired across the board, right? You know what I mean? Yeah, oh yeah. I mean,

but no, but like, honestly, Dominique, that's a really interesting point, but that's actually what

you're actually describing is the is people who become like the angry college sports fan who were

like, it was better back in my day when like, you got to know the guys, you got to know the teams,

et cetera, et cetera, which is, well, yeah, but there's the irony of that is like, we obviously are

like pro pro pay the players pro a system that's fair, but we also just waxed poetically about

the nostalgia of our youth and how we love those teams and we're all doing the same thing.

Things change. All this is, all this is what's just saying, we don't have as much time as we

use to to watch as much of this as we use to. So we're watching y'all like we're old cats who show

up at the, you know, the red concert to get a singles now. You know what I mean? Like,

everybody else is the deep cuts. They got everywhere. Like I went, hey, I'm not going front.

I went to Kendrick and season and I know a lot of Kendrick catalog, but when like the deep cuts

on section 80 started, I was like, hey, y'all, y'all got it. You know what I mean? I went too. I

went, you know how I went though? I went worse than you. I went to take my oldest two kids.

I went with them. So I knew I was old when I showed up. I know no words. And they just

went out there wrapping along and singing along. I was keeping my eye as if I could regulate the

lyrics that they knew it didn't know, but I was making sure. But yeah, I was completely out of water

there. I'm an old dude. And I'm fine. And the coaches, like you mentioned, right? Like the coaches

for so many years have been the stars of these institutions. And some guys, you know,

Agent Out, some guys are at the studio desk now saying wild stuff like that. Like who are

those dudes now? Who you get? Like, hell, they didn't turn California into a dude. He's like,

I don't know about pennies. Kids, this game about to get ruined here. Hurley. I mean, Hurley,

Hurley gives us that old. Hurley. We still got in patina and patina. Yeah, we got,

it was those still hanging out there. Matin Cleaves just throwing name out there since we playing,

playing the old school basketball name. But like you just shot up my Pete. Oh, yeah, he was

all the Flint cells. And so that's all the white folks who thought that they were just this

group of scrappy kids from Flint, Michigan with that name, by the way.

They had no definition. Now, whole team and have one cut.

Not one shadow on their body. I got to show you a different realm. You know,

I think you might, you got to give, give Jason Richardson some credit. Oh, my god.

He took, he took everybody else's definition. He stole it from, yeah, I think there was like

a, I wish it's a gunly A2. If I'm not mistaken, it was a double A out there. There was a couple of

cats out there. But for the most part, you know, they didn't seem like the guys who got too

worried about fisticuffs. If you know what I mean, anybody like, I feel like Tark. I'm

trying to think of the, I guess Tark, like the most, the coach who I felt was like most

differentiated themselves. It was like the most, there's like a lot of, because we,

all everybody's moved to the middle as far as the coach is concerned. There's a few unique guys.

I remember getting older and realizing Dean Smith didn't win as many championships as I thought

he won. It was like, they named the whole dome after you for two. I get what he meant to the

to the institution. But I thought, I thought he erected like four or five in my childhood.

The way they, the way they, that's the other thing. And I took away the dudes who we were like,

I know, I know you're not doing this above board. You know what I mean? But I, but I appreciate

you gangster, right? Like the guys that you knew, you know, like they get a few frees kind of

vibe, where it's like, I know the sanctions are coming. But Stacey, I'm a show is cold.

Oh, the plastic man, Tark had to get the plastic man out there. You think they wasn't

panning, right? Pat Kennedy and the Paul, you know, you got Q Richardson, Bobby Simmons,

Lance, you got all these dudes to stay here in Chicago when it's never happened before.

You must be great. We have a historic backdrop with Debonza. Like this has been going on.

He went from, from, from Brockton, Massachusetts to play the end of his prep school in Utah,

all with a master plan of the jazz, potentially taking, taking the keepman Salt Lake City a lot there.

I don't see you pulling that way, though, right? Like you want to, I like, I want to think of

somebody pulling up in a, in a, in a Broham. Yeah. In a, in an, in an El Dorado, dropping a

bag of money off of Mama Doors. Like I want that kind of vibe. Like I want the, I want the

Julian right. I'm going to Kansas and I have never visited the campus kind of vibe. You know what I'm

saying? Like I want those type of things that don't happen. Debonza's story would have been a lot

funny or 10 years ago when we was like, he going to wear? What? You talking? We'd have all been

speculating. And now look at BYU. BYU look like Georgetown. Yeah. Like remember, you remember how

when you used to run around? I used to, I, you couldn't tell you. Georgetown wasn't a black

school when I was a kid. Like that's why, because the older heads than us, they had Georgetown because

of the centers, right? You know, you can't be a, a lot so everybody, right? But we had five,

but you couldn't tell me. Like I, I was damn near out of high school before I realized like, no,

no, no, the brothers that go to Georgetown, they are on the basketball. That's it. They had

Alan Overson in a Kintake Hall from Jersey with a black head coach. Like, where else was

they doing that? There you get all campus? No, Alan Overson is okay. Man. Where's Victor Page?

Like, this isn't like what your campus and Victor Page is hanging out on? No. Shout out to,

so that's a BYU, though, bringing all the, may, BYU look like the French national soccer team now.

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the box. Keaton Wagler, he's good. Yeah. Yeah, do you, have you got to see him play at all, Jason?

So have you watched any of the Illinois games? Yeah, Illinois has had like three different

teams this year, by the way, right? Like Andre Stuyacovic still was up and like, oh, that's a pro.

And then they got a bunch of dudes with a bunch of consonants in their names, who you're like,

all right, these are going to be pros overseas, all right? And then Keaton Wagler, like the same way,

what is this? Yeah, Cachonis last year, the guy who was the lovely pick last year, the same way

he bubbled up midway through the year. Keaton Wagler has been bubbling like this for a while now.

He's, he's hit some, he's hit some shooting skids lately, and I think that might, I think that's

more of a Scott report slash fatigue thing, right? Like he, you know, big 10 season got banged

around a little bit, but he is a dude who, you know, a lot of people don't see him dropping out of

that top eight or nine. Like there's some, there's some, there's some really, and it's not just like

a projection thing. I'm talking about dudes doing pro stuff on the college level right now. Like

all that training and skill stuff that people hate on and talk about, like guys aren't really

playing ball, which I, I agree with in terms of five or five. That's why the IQ isn't where it's

supposed to be sometimes. The skill stuff that you see popping out late in seasons by freshman now,

like you know who's taking that pro leap and that dude, he's not only taking that pro leap, he's

taking, he's taking that, you know, high lottery, talking about, well, maybe seven, eight, nine type of

leap. I think he's one of the most interesting guys in this tournament and potentially one of

the most interesting guys in the draft beyond that because like this dude didn't play on a national

EU team. He was like a local, like a, a local play with his guys team. He was, he ended up being a

low four star recruit, but he wasn't this all American guy. And this is like football more than

than basketball Dominique. We're like, you don't often see those guys as freshmen end up being top

10 picks. And that just shows his skill set and his body's not like totally there yet. He's like

6 6 180, but he can, he can really shoot. Like this is a really, this isn't Peterson, DeBanza,

Booser, or Acuff, or Fleming who've been, or Caleb Wilson, who have been at the top of this class

and this cluster of like great American prospects for like the last five years, which by the way,

Cooper Flag was in before he reclassified, which is crazy to think about that these guys have been

beating each other up on the EU circuit for like, like three quarters of a decade. But this guy

is like bombed his way in this year. And yeah, he took the rough patch at the end of the year,

but like this could be a really unique like prospect for the higher ceiling because he hasn't gone

through the same circuit that these guys have where we know like that development path.

Yeah, I mean, we can go back to one of the questions you asked earlier and we talked about who had

the most gain. It actually might be him. I think in this tournament with the way that he's shooting

slump towards the end of the season, like this tournament could be an important moment for him to

like show people that he's he's all right. Like the the scheme and hasn't caught up to him.

He's not too tired. He's whatever, like toughening that these other players have experienced

from going through these circuits. He just experienced now and he's come out on the other end of it.

And I think for him, a player who has they haven't been salivating over for five years, I think

the projection could be even higher depending on how he performs in this. I think it didn't even

cross my mind because I was just thinking about those top guys and thinking who could gain more

in this tournament. But he's somebody who probably could jump the most if he puts up big numbers.

I mean, he's a big dude. He's six six. So like he's a six six guard who can pass the ball and

shoots from a few feet behind the college line. Like that's exciting. It's if nothing else,

the bottom for him is like a real I would think the bottom for him assuming he can play defense

is like a real role player, which is hard to find an NBA. All of this is hard to find an NBA like a

policy super skilled late bloomer. Yeah, super skilled late bloomer. It's really unique.

He could show any point guard skills in the one on ones and the combine. If he does that,

he shows any kind of, you know, understanding of a picking role ball recognition where it's

supposed to go understanding, you know, pockets and understanding, you know, get him to get

himself a floater when he gets. He does any of that stuff in the process, you know, the Kobe White,

all Kobe White had to do was going to draft and say he was a point guard, show a couple of teams.

And that vaulted him up to, you know, where he was number seven pick or something like that.

And he had his short arms, right? Like there's certain, there's certain things that pop out where

you're like, if this guy, if this diamond gets refined enough, he might be one of those dudes.

Speaking of diamonds, like he's talking about who's got the most loose or game.

Cooper Flite and Con Canippa right now are one and two and rookie in the year voting.

And you could, you can flip flop them on any given week. The way the way Con is shooting is

legendary for a first year player, right? Take it back to Duke where it's like, hey, man,

like, because Coach K had somebody's joints, too, where it's like, hey, you got the best player.

And maybe a couple of the best players in Kyle's basketball, you know, you got to win this one.

John Shire, you keep getting them. And they keep going on to fame and fortune.

You got to, I love John Shire. Local dude always been cool. But, you know, there's going to be

some heat coming if they like, what does Duke have to go for this to be?

Because you're the number one overall. Yeah. What do they have to go for it to be like,

I, John, we, we understand. And you know, attached that, you know, Mac Brown and basketball shoes,

Monica, too. Have the expectations changed in Durham with the new like system? Because I think

that's it. These two years. Yeah. I think that the expectations don't change. And those,

they take a while for things to change in those places. And so I can't say I've watched,

watched John Shire enough to have like a strong opinion. But we do know that the bottom line is

the bottom line. And if you, if you have championship level rosters, which if you're the one overall seed,

and you ain't winning championships, I'm not sure how much patience people are going to have for

you, especially in a place like that, where I think that identity is so tied up in like Duke's

basketball school. I know it's a great school. In other ways, as far as like rankings and

other stuff, but like basketball school that wins championships, and you need to do that.

And they beat up too. So fair and not fair, right? Like they beat up. They got a big man who might

not play this, well, won't play this weekend, right? They've had two big injuries. Yeah. They lost

another guy to an ACL towards the end of the season. So like their depth has been, but now we're

seeing more Kaden Boos or two. Like he Kaden Boos is playing a little bit more with his brother

and playing well in the tournament. I mean, the thing is bottom line is Calipari got like a long

time because he kept bringing in all the McDonalds, all Americans. John Shire bringing in, if he's

going to keep bringing in the Cameron Boosers, the Cooper flags, the Khan Knipples, the Molo Watches,

he'll be there for a while. And they're going to start winning them. Right. Can I, can I ask you now,

though? How, like, how much does John Shire have to do with bringing them in? Like,

if you get another coach, it's still Duke and the money's still the same. If, and I'm being honest

now, like, I don't know how recruiting has changed because I know like there was a point. Yeah,

there was a point when it felt like the coach really mattered with recruiting. Now it feels like

there's some prestige and money, especially for the one and done guys that he's bringing in. I'm not

sure that that the people who are in there, like the Boosters who are paying the money to get

these players to show up, the Boosters who would make the decision to hire or to fire or extend him.

I mean, I sure today looking at him like, man, we sure I'm glad he's bringing them in.

Because my guess is he going to talk to these kids and then coming back to the Boosters like,

let me tell you what I'm gonna need. Let me tell you to check I'm gonna need. And I don't know,

again, I'm like theorizing, but I don't think that the Boosters are looking at him like,

thank God, John Shire bringing in Khan Knipple in them. I think the Boosters are looking at him like,

we keep paying these salaries to these players. Bring me a trophy.

Coach, dignity, in fact, man, across college sports, where it's like, hey, I don't want to hear

that you can't do it. And it's not so a lot of it is a fair. A lot of it is a fair. Like,

look what's happening with Kentucky. Like they bring in a guy who won championships with them and

you know, everybody was happy about it and they're slowly getting it back together, but

that's still a big lunation and they still got some high expectations. Like, it's not Alabama football

level or Iowa State football level, but this is like you mentioned, this is the lifeblood of those

towns. This is the identity of those schools and those schools, admissions-wise and everything

up prestige, they can pretend like the basketball doesn't matter, but go to Lawrence, Kansas and see

if you could mess around a half, two back-to-back seasons of disappointment if you build self.

Well, and to your point, this is the question we're wondering if John Chires is really going to

be Calipari because I think we'll remember for a long time that he didn't win with Con Canippell

and Cooper Flag because they couldn't, they couldn't imbound the ball. Like that, that, yeah,

it was crazy. All right, so before we get out of here, do you guys two pick winners?

Should we do the thing where we pick a winner in an in an tournament that's really hard to pick a

winner in? Yeah, sure, of course, of course. I can give you my winner. Like, first of all, Alaska and

Maine are the two states that never had a team in an tournament. I think that's your winner. Thank

you for paying. I knew Alaska, he was guessing in Dakota for the other one.

Maine. I pick Houston. Okay. Okay. Kingston Flimmings in the boys. I'm not mad at that. I'm not

mad at that. Um, it's hard for me to go against after talking about it this entire time.

I think, I think Duke will be in there. Um, I'll say Duke. I'll say Duke. I'll say Duke.

I'll say Duke. I'll say it hurts though. It hurts. The ghost of Steve Oljahowski

is gonna, you know, haunt me forever. But I'll say Duke.

Anchor down. Let's go doors. Oh, gosh. Wait, wait, what? Uh, did you just,

yeah, you just say Vanderbilt? That's right. Okay. Who's there? Who's there? Do you have a final

four? Um, I mean, of course, I'm a final four. I got Michigan, BYU, Kansas and Houston,

where he's been waiting. I don't, I don't have a final four. Yeah. I mean, I just, I just,

I just completely pulled that out of my. So it is not, it is not based on, I know I want to see

Arizona making. I want to see Alabama make it with the, with the Allen and Fireline kids. Uh,

Illinois, of course. I don't, you know, I haven't filled out a bracket in 15 plus years,

man. I, I find I was too, I was doing too much correct in X's on a piece of paper instead of

watching and enjoying the games. No, no, no, no, hate to anybody out there that does that. But

I haven't done one in a decade plus, man. It's been a while for me. The last thing I'll say is,

like, I cannot wait for the Arizona team that has brownie, brown and Bryce on it in a couple years.

I love it. It's a distinct possibility. Yeah, the collapse flow with both of his sons.

The collapse of college sports now that you could play, there'll be all employees and

Robby dangerous. You're back to school. I'll never, I'll never, I'll never, he'll go back and

reduce space jam too. Might as well do back to school as well. That'd be fire. Actually,

that'd be a, that'd be a fire concept. You know, they just start streaming. You know,

they're going to the parties. The Jordan security guard thing. Now all this out. That's Charlie's

move now. Still till to this day of reason why I don't really mess with space jam because they

expected us to believe that one of the greatest players of all time lived in a two bedroom bungalow

on the west side of Chicago. Y'all see that man's house in space there.

And then open the fridge from the living room. That's Michael Jeffery George.

I never thought about how to give you. He can play with cartoons. He can get into a realm where

he can play with animated people and y'all got them living in a 325,000 house. Come on.

Knock it off. So you can suspend this belief on the aliens coming down. It's challenging

to basketball game. And NBA superstars having their powers taken. But you know what I can,

I cannot abide. I don't want you to play around like you're not rich. Why am I watching Michael?

I know the house that Michael Jordan. But when Highland Park with the game. I see

that Ferrari pulling that gate before we all see it. Right. Right. Right. The multiple

businesses. You mean to tell me he pulling up to an unheated driveway? I'm going to get the

hell out of here, man. No, thank you so much, Jason. Thank you, Charlie. Thanks all great producers.

Bams are 83 with legitimate. We out. This is the Dominique Fox worth show.

Two teams. One cup. The prime time stage is set for the TGL presented by SoFi finals.

Los Angeles Golf Club versus Tiger's Jupiter links. Keep up. It's playoffs. Tune in Monday,

March 23rd, 9 p.m. Eastern on ESPN 2 and Tuesday, March 24th, 7 p.m. Eastern on ESPN and on the ESPN

app.