Margaret Cho Gets Real on Addiction, Sobriety & the Dark Side of Comedy

0:00The way that I drive drunk, and high, and I tend to always drive to a violent man's house. Wait, wait, wait, you're a lesbian. Why are you driving to a violent man's house? I don't even like dick, but I end up getting hooked up with these crazy guys who are gonna kill me for being a lesbian. If someone has a problem with substance use disorder, please call one call placement. That's 888-831-1581, and if we can't help you, we'll make a referral to someone who can. One call placement is affiliated with Carrera Treatment Wellness and Spa and One Method Treatment Centers. Today's guest is someone who has spent decades making people laugh while also speaking honestly about some of life's toughest struggles.

1:01Margaret Cho is a legendary comedian, actor, and activist whose fearless standup has pushed boundaries and open doors in entertainment. From her groundbreaking sitcom, All American Girl to her films, powerful comedy tours, and advocacy work, she's currently on the road with her new standup to her, Cho LaGarkey, so Margaret. Thank you for coming on the show today. Thank you. You've been trying to get you on for a year, right? You were touring, right? Yes, yes. Tell me about what you've been doing over the last year. I've been on the road. I have a show I'm on the road with called Cho LaGarkey and I've been doing that. I've also been shooting a television show in Atlanta called Will Trent, which is a really cool show where I'm a therapist actually. So it's very different for me to, for once be the authority on mental health on there.

2:01So I do that and yeah, traveling a lot, but it's really good. I think that's hysterical. You're going to be, that is a, that is a good idea. That I love you as a therapist. Yeah. Oh, that's a winner. It's very different and it's for me. I mean, it's just, I think because I've been in therapy for so long that it's easy for me to switch it up and play the therapist. No, for sure. For sure. So I don't know if you know this, but I think about 15, 20 years ago, we met in an A meeting at the cabin, right? You used to go to the cabin all the time, right? Yes, yes. Right. So, you know, I know you talk about your sobriety, right? Yes. How long you sober now? This time around, I have, oh, if God willing,

3:04I'll have 10 years in May, but I've been around A-A since 1997, 96, 97, 97. That's when I got, that's when I started going to A-A. In 96, 97. Yeah. So we're in the same thing. Thank you to Aunt for introducing us. Okay. He's a good friend of mine. I know you're close with him, so thank you, Aunt. I was watching before we did this. I was watching your best of video, okay? Which is hysterical, by the way. You're hysterical. Thank you. And I'm not judging, I'm just reporting, as you know, okay? But who are your favorite comics? I love Maria Bamford. I love Tick Notaro. I think I really will always have a, and be indebted to Joan Rivers, who is my good friend and my mentor.

4:09Yeah, those are probably my favorites at the moment. Those people are just so phenomenal. But yeah, I'm a big fan of comedy. Joan Rivers scared me. Just scary. She's a scary woman. I mean, she ain't scary Aretha Franklin's scary. Aretha Franklin's scariest woman I ever had. Oh gosh, I never got to meet Aretha. I would have loved to, although I definitely would have been scared. I'm such a fan of hers. You don't even understand the gravity of it. I walk into her house because I'm friends with her son and she comes out in this gown with feathers and a boa and just like it was real, it was real and there was no messing around. She didn't have any ear for any nonsense. She wasn't scared to death or her. Just scared to death. Joan Rivers was a lot like that, but not as scary because it was a little funny. Right. And Joan was, you know, she had a shyness to her.

5:11She had a shy. All of it was really made up like her persona on stage was actually very, it was, of course, authentic to her, but that also wasn't how she naturally was in person. She was a shy, kind of like very warm, very loving kind of maternal presence, which was so shocking later when I realized that was the real her, very different. Right. Well, all you'd have to do is see her around Melissa and then you'd see the real her. Yeah, the warmth, the warmth and the, also the kind of like really caring side that wasn't crass at all, that wasn't, you know, full of like barbs and full of vitriol that wasn't her. She was just a very maternal loving mommy. Yeah, she was, but I love the other. Yeah. The other, that was my favorite. So fun. I mean, she was, she was so fun.

6:13What do you think about who your favorite political commentary comics? I think right now I'm really, I'm really into John Oliver. I think he's just brilliant and I learn a lot from what he decides to report on. So I really, I really appreciate him. Of course, I love the daily show. They're just really spot on and all of the different correspondence on there. They're just really special, especially John Stewart who was my old boss. I used to open for him and girls would go crazy and they would run out to our car and like jump on our car. I mean, they were trying to break into the car to get to him because they were just so mad about him. And this is in the 90s, you know. So it was very like Beatlemania. I was really scared sometimes going around with him, but what a wonderful, just political commentary, really smart, just love what he's doing.

7:15Like Stan it boys, I love Mark Marin. I think he's really astute. He's just like, we have this similar political beliefs and I really vibe with him. I've always loved his comedy. So yeah, there's a lot of people. I love John all of them. People wouldn't necessarily think that he did an episode. I love him. He's not just a comedian, he's an activist. He did one thing that was the most beautiful thing. There were a bunch of people who were just encumbered with medical debt, right? And so he was going to pay off all their medical debts but he went a step further. He was mindful about it and he says, wait a minute. If I do that, they're going to get stuck for the taxes. They're going to be in more trouble than they were with the medical debt. So he went, I don't forgot what he did, but he worked it out so that not only could he pay off the debt but they wouldn't be responsible for the taxes.

8:17And so I just love him. He's incredible. He does so much stuff like that kind of behind the scenes that it's not about the comedy of it. It's really just about the ethics of it. And I just love that also the education of it, like just learning so much about what's going on. And that's I think what is such an important function of comedy is to explain the world to us. And that's for sure. Yeah, that's right. And you know, you didn't mention Bill Moore. Bill is great too. Bill and I don't agree a lot. I'm a fan of him personally. I've gone to Hawaii with him on his private plane. Like it's the only time I've ever been on a private plane is with Bill Mark. And I spent a lot of time with him. He's a good guy. We disagree a lot. But that's OK. You know, I think he's really smart. It's only OK if we're not in our feeds constantly

9:17being hammered with, you know, one side of the deal. But I learned about politics from comedy. And that's what brought me in, right? And I learned it from Bill Moore. So when I was on that show, it was like I could barely speak. Oh, right. Because I was like, I just love him, right? He's the best. I just want to know where Bill gets it wrong. Where Bill Mark gets it wrong. And I'll tell you why I say this because he's evolved. Yeah. OK, he's evolved to the center. Right. And he used to be on the left. And he's evolved to the center. And that's why you disagree. And I get it. But what about his take, his takes? Are you having the most trouble? It's the general idea that we've gotten too woke

10:19and that we are lending too much of an ear to disenfranchise communities or we're lending too much of an ear to these minority issues that are, in essence, too woke. I don't think that's true. I don't think you could ever be too woke. I don't think you could ever stop paying attention to communities that need to be heard. And so that, in that, in a very general way, is that, and that's our divide. But I also appreciate his ideas of common sense and wanting to be rational and wanting to pretty much unite everybody. I think independence are interested in uniting people. And in their own individuality, like they listen to everybody, they would rather have an unbiased take and form their own conclusions. So that, I appreciate. Yeah, absolutely. And I love that you said that. And communities that are underserved need their basic needs

11:22met, just like anyone needs their basic needs met. That's just the way it works. We're only as strong as our weakest link. We saw the encampments on the street. I grew up in LA. You grew up in LA, didn't you? I grew up in San Francisco. So it's worse there, actually. It's worse. It's worse. But it wasn't always that way. And we see the encampments. We're like, what's going on here? This is not America. This is not, we can't do this to our people. Right? So I get that. So I'm all about helping out the little guy. That would be great. You've always been very honest in your comedy about your life. When did you realize sharing those experience could actually help people? Well, I think you know when it comes from Richard Pryor, when Richard Pryor was so open about his, when he set himself on fire, you know, on a crack binge, like, and the nakedness of that, the sheer bravery of that and the beauty of that was just for me a lifelong lesson of, wow, you know.

12:26And when I first saw that I was too young to even understand, I hadn't done drugs yet. I hadn't understood it. But I could see the vulnerability and I could see the beauty in it. And it took me a lifetime kind of to understand. Now I have a much greater understanding of it and much more appreciation of it. But I think, yeah, like he led by example, you know, Richard was an extraordinary ambassador of vulnerability and not only for drugs, but for race, for masculinity in general. You know, there was so much power in what he did because he revealed his heart and his frailty. So that to me was strength. And so then I think, you know, later some of these, you know, the drug addiction is kind of funny, you know, because it, it falls the mighty. Like it really will destroy the strongest individuals. And so that in itself is a kind of hilarious thing.

13:30It's only hilarious when they come out the other side and they share about it and everybody's laughing while you're going through it. It's painful, but also you laugh at yourself while you're going through it. You laugh at the sickness of it and you have to laugh to survive sometimes. So I think, yeah, I find drug addiction actually to be a really intensely funny subject when you can laugh, when you survived and can laugh. And then, you know, now being sober and hopefully I will stay sober for the rest of my life. I'm hoping that may not be the case, but I would, today I would like to be. You know, you keep on laughing at it to get other people interested. You tell these stories and people get more interested in sobriety. How, you said you have 10 years sober. Do you want to share how you relapse? What caused that? I was just frustrated with sobriety

14:33and then I had not really done the program in the way that I should have and then I got into some arguments with people who I was walking this path with. And, you know, when I just thought, I don't want to do this and I bought a house and I had gotten married and I'd been sober for like seven years and I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to do this anymore. And then I went to a party and somebody handed me a jamba juice thing filled with psilocybin mushrooms. I just drank the whole thing out of just like, who cares? And it was so weird, but I didn't die. And then I was like, hey, you know, they said if you go out, you'll die. Well, obviously they're relying. And so then I got a bunch of friends who were also people who would just kind of relapse too. And we were like, we didn't die. We didn't die. They've been lying this whole time and we kind of formed our own little anti fellowship. And just, and nothing really bad happened for a while because we didn't have at all. We didn't, we weren't hardcore IV drug users yet yet.

15:35I think, well, and the vent was like the worst, it's the worst possible thing that could have happened to us as drug addicts. And to have something that reverses that, it's like a miracle. Of course, it's a pain to be narkand. I don't want ever, I'm so glad that I never had to be narkand because thinking about being high and then suddenly dope sick makes me so crazy. Like I would rather die. I really think I would rather die than be narkand. I would just, okay, I need to explain that to the viewers because we're the only people on the face of the earth that would say that you have to be a recovering drug addict alcoholic to say some sick shit like that. I'd rather be dead. Okay, then woken up from my high abrupt to wake up dope sick. Well, I went, I'm having a good time because people, I think when they're dying at least, it's like, at least they're high. You know, like, I mean, and that's such a, that's very, that's so cynical and that is like the drug addict in me.

16:36But that's what I, I just feel so bad for anybody who gets narkand. Do you know, do you know what I tell people? Feels the best and lay people don't understand this. We'll understand it, but lay people don't understand it. What feels the best to an intravenous heroin user is to get as close to death as humanly possible without that, that feels the best. So that way when they're all blue, right? And their hearts almost stopped and they survive it, right? That's why the first thing they say is, where's my needle? I need another hit. Yeah. And then everybody in the room's like freaked out because they're all, you know, they're all straight. Now they, they're, they're high as ruined and they're all white. Can you just ridiculous? So yeah, I'd still rather be working up. What were you, what were you, would you relapse? I relapsed out. Well, I was, it was like a slow, like, you know, the, the boiling prod, you turn up the heat,

17:38but it's just first, okay, weed's legal. So did a bit of that and the Y2K thing, weed's legal. So then it's like, oh, you can get pills from anywhere online, that sort of thing. And then I was doing a lot of benzodia. Were the opioids, opioids are benzodia. And benzos, which is a deadly combination. I like the trinity of opioids, benzos, and a muscle relaxer. I don't know what that is. That's the sort of the Las Vegas cocktail. It's a Soma with a, with a Norco and a Xanax and a bottle of red wine. And that's just keep that coming, bad combination. But yeah, and then you do enough of that. And it leads you right to, I mean, I never did fall. I'm so grateful that I never got there. I never did IV drugs. I never got there. But close enough, which you're snorting, you're close enough. You're snorting oxygen. Oh, you weren't smoking it.

18:38You were snorting it. You were snorting oxygen. It's close enough. Good, close enough. Okay. You said before that a lot of comedians are neurodivergent in some way. Why do you think comedy attracts those kinds of minds? Because it's the way that we can control our societal interaction. So if you're a comedian, you're just going to be in the front and just be able to say everything and nobody has the right to interrupt you unless they're a heckler or whatever, then they get what they get. But you have the social contact, everybody has to listen. And that's so tantalizing for a neurodivergent person because you have control over a society then. And you have the sort of the interaction where everybody's agreed, okay, we're going to listen to you and we're going to like what you say. So I feel like that is so attractive to somebody who has something on the spectrum going on. And for me, definitely, I love that. That is such an excellent answer. I didn't even look at it that way.

19:39Okay, so when I was a kid, there was nothing off limits. Okay, you could do a riff and not have a problem. Okay, today everyone is uptight and they miss the comedy of it. They take everything so literally because everybody's a goddamn Karen. Okay, how do you deal with that? That must be so upsetting. But it's also, you have to be clever enough to override that. You have to be smart enough to kind of come back that. There's ways to do it. People do it. It's about skill and it's about really thinking things through. But yeah, of course, it's the outrage machine. People want to take things out of context and they want to get offended. And it's definitely worse now than it ever has been.

20:43But that's really, it's a test of your own ability to override that. But there are certain comedians that just don't give a fuck and they're going to do their own thing. And those are the guys that I just revere, right? Like who would be like Ricky Gervais? He gives none, zero, okay? There's something so freeing about that where you can sit there and just be like anything. Give it to me, okay? It's like air to breathe. Everybody's been like, you know, walking around on egg shells, give it to me, right? Who's another one? Bill Burr. I love Bill. Right? Love. He's great. He can override that outrage machine. Like Bill is so clever and so skilled that it's less that he doesn't care. It's more that he's so smart that he can get through

21:46any kind of defense thing that, you know, people have, any kind of outrage defensiveness. He's really like a ninja. It's pretty much like that. Do you know, do you know what just came up for me? Do you know who you were just in that moment? You were Tom Brady on television, giving play by play on the play that just happened. And unless you were here, you know, I wouldn't have had that point of view. And that was beautiful how you just did that. Thank you. That you just broke that down. Your new tour, Cholo Garkey, brings you back into political comedy. What inspired that? Oh, well, it's also about being in menopause. So it's about the physical change in my body and also how it applies to the actual change that we've experienced in our country of... You did a show on menopause? Yes. Well, right now it's about menopause and it's about how crazy that is

22:49to have this physical change and to be a completely different body. So it's the juxtaposition of the two things. The whole thing about how physically we change and it's so weird because you never think that's going to happen. Oh God, the hot flashes. Yeah, it's no, it's like, it's just, it's so weird. And so you, because you think your body's going to be though your whole life and it's really not. So it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a lot about that too. So I think it's really important. Along with Jimmy Shin, I've had a few other comedians on the show Jay Moore, David Cochner, Nick Thun. Love those guys. Who've all, love them, right? Really good, really good. They're all great guys. Had a great time with all of them. Nick Thun is probably one of the funniest people I've ever had. Yeah, he's a, he's a beautiful person. He's a beautiful person. Beautiful person. Yeah, he's a beautiful, and Jimmy's the best time ever. They've all talked about addiction. Why do you think substance abuse shows up so often

23:53in the comedy world? Because we have too much time to do nothing. Because you like, if you're a comic, you like really only work like an hour a day, even if you're like the best. And then the rest of the time you're traveling and then kind of in a hotel room by yourself for like 23 hours. And with all that money and all that time, it's just a recipe for addiction. Like you could do whatever the fuck you want. And even if you go on stage, that people love it. It's really an addiction that's, it's easier than rock star too. Because with a, with a rock star, you have to actually like have a physical body that can perform like saying and stuff like that. So your body is the instrument or you have to play. That's even harder. But like if you're comedian, you could always talk. So it's a profession that is perfect for an addict lifestyle.

24:55Yeah. The, you know, we were talking about Narcan and we were talking about, and you know, the Narcan works on all. What it doesn't work on is something called, oh yeah, yeah. And when you, and when you mix the scene with the Narcan, I'm sorry, with all, you have something called Trank, T-R-A-N-Q. The reason I bring this up is Andy Dick, who've been trying to get sober for a while. Yeah. I can't even count how many treatment centers this guy's been doing. I saw a video of him yesterday where he was slumped over, okay, like a zombie. And my producer said, this is fun. And I said, I don't think so. I think he was doing Trank. And she said, well, he doesn't shoot drugs.

25:56And I said, it doesn't matter. Let me tell you how I think it happened. What I think happened was he had felt that he was smoking along with, but the whole had in it a forehand. And that's why he almost died. What happened was, I think, what happened was is he got the Narcan, they, they Narcan them, right? And they're like, well, why did he live if Trank, if it doesn't work with Trank? And the answer is very simple. It saved him because it worked on the family, but he was still sedated by, see him. So the reason I bring it up is, you know this kid? Yeah. I did drugs with him, I feel so.

26:56Everybody did drugs with him because he's never stopped doing drugs. And I've been sober with him too. You know, yeah, he's had bounces, right? Do me a favor. Do me a favor. Have this kid call me, okay? I will take care of him, okay? And we'll deal with this. Yeah, he needs him because he just, he just has got to get, he got to get his head right. Like it's just, it's been too long now, you know? And he doesn't know how to live in the world. He doesn't know how he can't get out of it. He's stuck in it. He just doesn't know what he doesn't know, okay? It's like, when you're blind, you never, your mom never, my mom never took me to get my eyes checked, right? So 35, I'm driving. I'm getting out of my car to look at the street sign and then I'm getting back in the car. So my sponsor says to me, you gotta go get your eyes checked. I'm like, you're out of your mind. There's nothing wrong with my eyes. Now, my father had glasses, the thick is the bottoms of coat bottles, okay?

27:58But all of a sudden, my eyes are fine, okay? So I just refuse to believe it. So I take the car into, you know, a place to get the windshield replaced because the windshield's dirty, it's gotta be the windshield, right? So the guy won't change the windshield. So I step on top of the car and I kick and windshield in and I said, well, now I need a windshield. I'm gonna go next door and get some coffee, would you like a coffee? The guy's like, yeah, I'll take a coffee. Come back, the windshield's fine. I still can't see anything, right? So I go to pet boys and I have them put these lights on. They're like tennis court lights. Everybody's brighting me, everybody hates me, whatever. So finally, I go to the doctor, okay? And I get my eyes checked and the guy goes, how long have you been walking around blind? And he put glasses on me and I saw something totally different. You don't know what you don't know, right? There's a lot of conversation right now

28:59about GLP1 medications. We're seeing it reduce cravings for alcohol and drugs. That's true. What do you think about that and have you taken them? I have taken them, I think they're great. I think they're really amazing for curbing impulse. For impulse eating, I have a binge eating disorder. So for me, it's actually been quite a lifesaver. I think that they are just perfect for any kind of impulse control. That we're sort of looking at. I mean, I think people really criticize it, but I love them. I'm really grateful for them. You know, it even works with smoking because I was smoking cigars all day long and never didn't have a cigar in my mouth. Now, if I can smoke two cigars a day and I don't even finish, okay?

29:59I mean, I still enjoy it, but it just doesn't even enter my thought process. Right. And so it's, you know, it's working really well with drugs and alcohol. So why did you get on it? It was really to just stop the food noise. And it was less about losing weight, but just getting, because the way that I have a binge eating disorder, like, I'll eat to the point of my mouth this sore. Like, I'm not eating, like it's not out of hunger or in need to satiate. Like, it's a kind of like wild inner hunger that doesn't make any sense. That's not about... It's self-suiting, as well. It's self-suiting. And it's, you know, definitely a very destructive habit. And so I think, yeah, it's been incredibly helpful. I really love GLP wins. Yeah, I do too. I'm very, I'm very sveled.

31:00Okay. Looking back on everything you've been through, the highs and the lows, what are you most proud of today? I'm most proud that I'm still alive. Like, that's such a miracle. Like, the way that I do drugs and the way that I drink alcohol and, combined with the way that I drive, is so crazy that it... Wait a minute. No, no, no, I don't have any ear for that. The way that I drive drunk and high and I tend to always drive to a violent man's house. I'm so amazed that I'm alive because... Wait, wait, wait, you're a lesbian. Why are you driving a violent man's house? I mean, I don't even like Dick, but I end up like getting hooked up with these like crazy guys who were gonna kill me for being a lesbian. So it's like, I am so crazy when I am in my addiction that I am amazed that I'm alive. So every day, like, I'm so proud that I'm living. I'm so proud that when I was out there using and drinking and doing whatever, I didn't die.

32:01I was hoping you would say something to the effect that, you know, I started with nothing and I have accomplished something in my life that I'm very proud of. I mean, you're a big deal. You're not, right? I mean, that's a good, I mean, you fucking did it. You were a, in hope to die, drug addict, just full of shame and feeling like a piece of shit. And now you did it, man. How does that feel? It's great, but it's also about staying in this mindset, staying in this place of like, well, now don't do it again. Like now don't get to a place where I feel so comfortable and so good. Maybe I can have a drink. No, I can't ever get that relaxed. Like I said, I was watching this video beforehand and you said something about, you went on a riff. It was hysterical.

33:02Something about you love gay men. They're the best of gay men with a little girl is the best. They're going to Justin Bieber together. They're doing all this nonsense. And then I think I heard you say something like, but they're all getting older and I need a younger gay man. Somebody, okay, well, you're on the show and I like to bear gifts. And so I'd like to give you my game. Oh, wonderful. Hi. Margaret, too. I love you. Hi, I love you. I'm sorry I'm the young gay you're supposed to get. I think it's great. You're younger than me. You deserve a Ferrari gay. I'm like a Buick gay. No, I think you're a Ferrari gay. I think we're gonna have a good time. Good, awesome. The day he met Shaka Khan, he almost had a seizure. I would do. I love her. I would totally. I agree. I don't know how I would react. I've never actually seen her in person. I don't know.

34:02I would be like, so I get crazy about the divas. Yeah, yeah. She was a dazzling doll for sure. I love it. Well, I can't wait to meet you in person and we can talk about our divas all night. I will introduce the two of you. Okay, you're both sober. You've both gone to the cabin a lot of times. And Michael has, Michael is a professional case manager. Oh, cool. So we'll give, we'll list that in the, where, what's your place again? The heart consultants. And I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist as well. Oh, nice. Yeah, no, he's, he's your guy. He's your, he's your, he's your this. Oh, perfect. So when you get like that, he brings you back. Awesome. Thank you. He's your guy. Okay. Love it. Alright, Michael, I love you. Love you too. Thanks, Richie. Bye, Margaret. Thank you.

35:03Bye. I love it when he calls me Richie. I just love that. It's like everybody called me Richie when I was a kid and now they call me Richard because I'm a man. It's like stupid. Alright, Margaret, thank you for your time and coming on my show today. Thank you. I really appreciate it. Is there anything I left unsaid, anything you want to promote or that, you know, you're working on? Well, people want to come see me on my show. They can go to MargaretShow.com. That's where you get tickets and to see where I'm at. So you can check me out. What a blessing. It took a year to get you here. Yeah. Okay. It was worth the wait and I appreciate you. I appreciate you. Thank you so much. I appreciate you. This is wonderful. See you next Tuesday. There it is. We're out of time. Please subscribe on YouTube. Click the thumbs up and leave a comment. Please subscribe on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and leave a rating and a review and share the we're out of time podcast with others you know who will get value out of it. See you next Tuesday.