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About this Episode
Mike Sagun is a certified professional men's coach, and he has partnered with companies like DropBox, LinkedIn, and Google. Mike also partners with EVRYMAN, where he hosts men's groups, facilitates men's retreats, coaches individuals, and co-leads EVRYMAN's diversity and inclusion program. I met Mike through the work we've done together in EVRYMAN's programs, and I was delighted to have him on the show to get his perspective on facilitation, coaching, leading intimacy online...and just how important it is to create the space to connect with ourselves.
Doing deep, transformative work online is critically important...certainly in the pandemic, it's essential to be able to keep connecting with people. And as we transition into a hybrid future, it's important to remember how virtual connection has made so much of the world more accessible.
I always remember an NPR story from the start of the pandemic where a wheelchair bound individual was thrilled that they could finally go to church without all of the hassle of transportation. Worlds opened up for so many as well all went online. As hard as making space and time to connect online is, it's worth doing and worth doing well.
Many facilitators and leaders still say that "in person was better" or "virtual will never be like in person" to which I say...yes, indeed. They are different animals. My conversation with Mike Sagun will help you see how deep online work can be, both in groups and one-on-one.
My own men's group has struggled with the online transition, so I visited the Drop In Men's Group Mike hosts each Friday to see how he does it.
I was excited to see that, in the first moments of the session, MIke formed clear and powerful boundaries for the group of 30 men, and did everything and more that I advise folks to do when they want to build a more powerful group connection. These's nothing fancy to it. Like some of the best food experiences, it's about good ingredients, treated with respect. My experience of Mike's facilitative presence was just smooth, open and easy. His pace is not rushed. Some of the things I spotted him doing, which we'll dig into in our conversation were:
- Greet the people. Connect with them, ask for how to pronounce names.
1. Being Explicit about agreements. What is this space for? What isn't it for?
2. Slow Down. Close whatever came before with a moment of mindfulness.
3. Passing the mike - giving power and control to others in the group to lead parts.
4. Breakout to connect. Smaller groups help create more safety and connection.
5. Assign "captains" of each breakout and give a clear, focused prompt.
6. Get people to share from that breakout.
7. In larger groups, give someone the time-awareness job so you can focus on connecting.
That last element was one of my favorite moments, of Mike setting clear and safe boundaries for presence and connection. Mike asked someone to put in the chat when someone's share out had reached four minutes. He clarified "When it's four minutes, it doesn't mean your time is up. It just means that you've been talking for four minutes."
I sometimes call this practice "giving people jobs so you can do yours" and Mike did an amazing job of it. Giving away jobs helps people feel responsible for the space, in control...and it frees up mental space for you to focus on the most impactful aspects of your presence.
Mike also broke down three levels of listening, which are a powerful key to mastering virtual presence.
Level One is where you are doing what some would call "cosmetic" listening. You're there with a person but you're already thinking about what you're going to say next.
Level Two listening is being deeply engaged in the person. As Mike says "We're listening to every single consonant of the word that they're saying and we are very fully tuned in to their story or what they're talking about. Level two listening is one of the most powerful gifts that you can offer for someone. Just being there for that person to use you as a sound(ing) board."
Level Three listening expands to what's happening within ourselves internally and in the environment. I've heard some folks call this "global listening". Here, Mike suggests that we might notice "what's happening in their body language and their micro facial expressions. Then also, what's happening in the environment... then also what's happening outside in the world. What's happening in the culture, what's happening in politics."
This level of listening is tremendously powerful, to be able to hold the conversation with the other person, with ourselves and with the larger world, all at once.
As Mike says "Level three listening is one of the greatest gifts that we can offer someone but also what we can offer ourselves... especially when we're facilitating a space like this."
So there you have it...the secrets to presence. As Mike said in the opening quote:
"holding that space, I think what's most important is first checking in with ourselves and noticing how you show up. How am I showing up into this space? Do I need to let go of anything in order for me to be completely present for the person in front of me?"
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