Mees Baaijen vs. Laurent Guyenot: “Is the World Domination Project Jewish?”

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Mees Baaijen, author of The Predators vs. the People: The Big Picture of the 500-Year Secret War Against Humanity, discusses “The project for world domination is not Jewish – nor is it American!”  Then Laurent Guyénot, a noted analyst of the Jewish world domination project, offers a different viewpoint—and discusses “Lagging behind history: Israel’s failure to catch up with the Weltgeist.”

Rough Transcript

I'm Kevin Barrett, broadcasting live on Revolution.Radio every Friday evening here in Morocco, midday in the U.S.of A. And whatever time it may be, wherever you are, Revolution.Radio is the ultimate free speech network.

I got canceled by Stripe recently. If people can help out i would greatly appreciate that. I'm going to start posting my Paypal button, as long as I still have Paypal, at truthjihad.com and KevinBarrett.substack.com

So let's get going with the second hour. Mees Baaijen will be coming on, and then Laurent Guyenot after that. Mees Baaijen is the author of The Predators vs. the People: The Big Picture of the 500-Year Secret War Against Humanity. And he has a new article out called The Project for World Domination Is Not Jewish, Nor Is It American. And so what is it then? Well, let's ask Mees Baaijen.

There may be multiple projects for world domination out there, of course. As that 80s band was saying, Everybody Wants to Rule the World. There's a good Patti Smith cover of that. But there is a Jewish project as well as various other ones, presumably. And Laurent is an expert on the Jewish one and where that comes from—the ideological roots, the cultural roots and the political identitarian roots of this Jewish world domination project.

If you're Jewish, you can go to Amsterdam and riot and attack people, and then the global media will portray you as the victim. If you're Jewish, you can slaughter people in the worst genocide in human history that's being livestreamed 24-7-365 and you can portray yourself as the victim and have most of the Western media largely go along with that.

Hello, Mees. Is that you?

Mees Baaijen: Yes, Kevin. Just when you started, the electricity went down. What I can do is pick up a battery here upstairs and put the modem on the battery. It will take me only a minute.

Kevin Barrett: That's interesting. First, we had Captain Dan Hanley in Pakistan going down because his internet went out. Now we have Mees—where are you exactly, Mees?

Mees Baaijen: In Costa Rica.

Kevin Barrett: Okay. So Mees is in Costa Rica and he's lost his electricity. I keep telling my American friends they need to move to a civilized country like Morocco. Maybe I need to tell my Pakistani and Costa Rican friends the same thing. We have reasonably reliable electricity and internet here in Saidia, Morocco. And this is not even the most developed part of Morocco. Over in western Morocco, Casablanca, Rabat, Fez, Marrakesh—they've got a Buraq high-speed rail train. They've got way better trains than America has. They've got all kinds of development going on over there. They're getting ready for hosting the World Cup in 2030. Western Morocco is really happening. But even here in "backwards" Eastern Morocco, we're doing okay in terms of infrastructure. Hats off to the Moroccans.

(While we wait for Mees) let's talk a little bit about about Mees Baaijan and Laurent. Mees has looked at finance as the root of the power that has allowed this global domination project to do what it's doing. And that makes a lot of sense, because whoever controls the financial levers is in position to buy and sell...well, people, among other things, and their technology.

And we've seen this historical rise of finance. And now it's not really so much useful capitalist finance, people who are using their money to build useful things. Elon Musk says he's doing that. Maybe he's an example of that old fashioned kind Henry Ford style industrial capitalism using money to actually build stuff.

But now there's this big global casino style finance of people who manage to just keep increasing their fortunes without doing anything productive. And that basically gives them free money. And free money is what gives you control. That is, whoever is controlling us, that's their job. And so they can't be out there working and doing something productive to have to make their money because that would then consume all their time and effort.

Instead, they need some source of free money to just keep flowing in in vast quantities while they go about their business of controlling us. And the various sources of free money that these people use would be, number one, interest. If you have a huge pile of money and you can make a lot of interest on it without doing anything, then you've got that free source of income that you can use to build a control system.

And likewise, oil is like that. Oil costs pennies to get out of the ground, and then you sell the barrel for $100 or whatever it is.

Drugs are the same thing. It costs pennies to produce the drugs, and then you sell them for 10,000% markup. It's basically free money. And so that's why we have CIA and other intelligence sources working with organized crime to dominate the illegal drug sector with its money laundering. They were laundering a trillion and a half dollars a year back when they took over Afghanistan in 2002 to get the drug pipeline going again.

And so all of these sources of free money, whether it's owning the money printing presses and getting interest on the money that you loan into existence with interest, which is what the financial cartel does, whether it's producing energy for pennies and selling it for $100 a barrel like the oil industry does, whether it's the military sector building gold-plated toilet seats. Basically, they're getting free money. And they get free (tax) money, and then their job then is to build stuff to kill and control people. Sof course, they're part of this control system.

So all of these folks who've engineered ways of having free money without having to do any productive work for it, then using that money to exert control over us and to squeeze more and more wealth out of us—that's the control system.

Is it Jewish? That's the question that Mies raises with his new article "The Project for World Domination Is Not Jewish, Nor Is It American." He argues that we're talking about a bankster elite that isn't really rooted in any nationality or ethnicity, but has been going on since Venice, many centuries ago.

That's an interesting perspective. It has a little bit in common with that of people like Mujahid Kamran http://www.mujahidkamran.com  the Pakistani physicist that I've had on the show quite a bit to talk about his research.

Then Lauren Guyenot will be coming on pretty soon. Laurent famously has looked at the ethnic Jewish political identity aspect of of the world control system we've seen getting cemented into place over the past century. And he thinks there is a significant Jewish component to it, based on cultural conditioning.

We're not talking racism here, folks. It's not about Jewish DNA. It's about the memes, not the genes. It's about the cultural control system that goes with Jewish identity politics, which has evolved from the Jewish religion, which was itself a kind of a control system. All of this has created today's Jewish-identity-based ethnic group that is fanatically ethnocentric, that uses ethnic nepotism to gain control of key nodes like media and finance and to promote its own interests.

And that's why basically Israel rules the world by ruling the United States, in the view of people like Laurent Guyenot. But Mees Baaijen has a slightly different view, and he's back with his camera on. Hey, welcome, Mees. How are you doing?

Mees Baaijen: We are on battery now. It should be safe.

Kevin Barrett: All right. We only have 15 minutes now until Laurent Guyenot comes on. So let's be succinct and describe why the project for world domination is not Jewish, nor is it American. I just very, very briefly summarized Laurent Guyenot's work on the roots of Jewish identity politics through the Jewish religion. And the upshot of that is that this particular cultural control system has created a people who are fanatically ethnocentric, heavily manipulated by their leaders, and very talented at things like long distance trade, finance, and propaganda. They have very high verbal IQs and a fair bit of number skills useful with handling money.

And so Jews have become greatly overrepresented in finance and media, the two key nodes of social control. And being fanatically ethnocentric, they have used ethnic nepotism to constantly increase their power. And today, that's why we have Israel getting away with complete genocide, with the West enabling it and handing Israel all of the money to do it, and anybody who criticizes it is going to be de-platformed and never allowed to work in this town again.

In other words, we have basically a Jewish global dictatorship. The Jews are committing genocide against non-Jews in Palestine, laughing as they get away with it, proud of it, blatantly telling the whole world about it and bragging about it, and nobody can do anything about it.

So clearly, we have a genocidal Jewish global dictatorship today. That's my exaggerated version of Guyenot's argument.

Mees Baijen:  Yes, yes, yes. Well, on the first side, yes, this is the case. When you start studying the history, (you see) they have had a very dominant role, very overrepresented. But as I see it, there is a global... control system being developed since 500 years in a war against humanity by a few rich people who want to use the planet, the God-given planet, our God-given planet, for their own purposes, as their own enterprise, with us roaming there as their cattle.

And of course they were very interested in groups like the Jews, who have a cosmopolitan character — intelligent people, very efficient networks, etc. So they have been using and abusing them. The same goes, by the way, for the Catholic Church, also a very cosmopolitan institution, fully infiltrated by the same people.

And so they are used as a shield, as a fig leaf, or as a front or as a facade, especially for the more public functions. They're in the limelight because they are CEOs, ministers, etc. But many, if not all, countries and institutions in the world are now governed by the same people, but with, let's say, in Holland, Dutchmen in these roles, not Jews necessarily, with British people and French people and so on.

In my conclusion, even Iran, China, Russia— all these people are criminal proxies of this group that I call Global Mafia or Glafia.

Kevin Barrett: When you talk about the global mafia or Glafia, how does it reproduce itself? Most mafias, most organized crime syndicates or groups, do tend to have ethnic roots, and they basically defend their own ethnicity, and they manage to persist through ethnic nepotism. But this Glafia, you say, is sort of multi-ethnic or non-ethnic. So how does it recruit people and what keeps them together? Why do they trust each other?

Mees Baaijen: Yeah, they have developed an enormous proxy system that is everywhere, like the octopus that was often used on cartoons even like a century ago. So it doesn't matter for them who... Everybody has to collaborate, and everybody collaborates. All the ex-colonies have elites, which the Americans, who are menacing them now as the forced hegemon of this group, used to call "son of b*****s, but our sons of b*****s." All groups are involved in this, all groups.

And so they kill, you can also see it on the other side, they kill and they harm any group, even the Jews, or even more, maybe in some cases. The Jews, because of this project, suffer more than the others. One example was in the Second World War, where the bankers helped to set up Hitler. That's well documented now, and a new book will come out by Jim McGregor on this. And it's perfectly clear that the Americans and the British set up Hitler.

Kevin Barrett: There was certainly some big money betting on Hitler, and Hitler was actually very popular and made the cover as Time Magazine's Man of the Year. But again, my question, though, is how does the top level of this Glafia recruit? Whoever's in charge of it must be basically taking the baton from older Glafia leaders. How do they get trained and groomed and so on to take the baton and run Glafia?

Mees Baaijen: Well, that's a big question. It is a hierarchic system with with a core of very rich people, probably a few hundred families, including bankers, merchants, aristocrats, etc. And then comes this enormous proxy system, which is everywhere now,

And we've never seen it more clear than during COVID. Everywhere in the world, all institutions, with a few exceptions, were manipulated in the very same way. And how do they train them? A program like the Young Global Leaders is a recent example. But more than a century ago they set up the London School for Economics. And that was to train the future leaders of the future independent, so-called independent colonists.

And so they prepared this years before the operation. It's incredible. So those are a few examples.

They take their time. They have a very long-term strategy, like for the First and Second World War and the Communist Revolution. There was already a book in 1853, over 60 years before the First World War started, which outlined what was going to happen. It's called The New Rome, published in the United States by two authors. https://openlibrary.org/works/OL15293540W/The_New_Rome

And for what we are seeing now, what is by many people known as the Global Digital Prison. Brzezinski already wrote a book in 1970, Between the Two Ages https://www.amazon.com/Between-Two-Ages-Americas-Technetronic/dp/0313234981 . He outlined the system they were going to set up. And that means that they were already sure at that point that they could do it, technically speaking. So that's 50 years before today when they are trying to introduce this technology, for the reason that the big proxy system that they had before has become much too complex. They have to have their people everywhere, in governments, in institutions, in universities, in think tanks, et cetera. So that takes a lot of coordination. And that went rather well as long as they could control the narrative. But since the, especially since -and even more since COVID, they can't control the narrative anymore. Of course, they are trying to block the internet now, but that's a very big problem. And if you can get an autonomous, anonymous, centralized control system via electronics, computers, that's what they want to substitute for all these proxies.

Kevin Barrett: So it sounds like what you're describing is, in some ways, not so much the individual people responsible for this global mafia or Glafia, but the technological control system that they use, which is based in finance, and that now involves computers and other kinds of digital control of people. But that still raises that question: Why the long-term aspect of this? One can certainly see how there's a system by which nations and political entities are ruled, and even multiple powers that straddle the borders of nations, and that there are technologies of ruling that rulers always are going to use. But the notion that it's the same group of people that are using this control method everywhere, that they have basically the same people and their descendants, or people that they hand the baton down to through the generations, somehow part of that group...It's not clear why there would be such a group. And that's where I think Laurent Guyenot's hypothesis that there's a Jewish world control "conspiracy" rhymes more with common sense assumptions about the world.

Jewish religious ideology has always held out progeny as immortality. Whereas Christians and Muslims look to immortality in the next world, Jewish immortality is more and more wealth and power for your more and more children. "You can never have too many children and you can never have too much money." That's a classic summary of how (traditional) Jews see the world.

And their tribal mythology that Jews are destined to take over the world, which is their eschatology, together with their story of what life is really all about, which is Jews defending themselves against the crazy evil goyim, winning each battle — "they tried to kill us, we won, let's eat." Every single Jewish holiday follows the same pattern.

And then gradually working for that "immortality" through world control, meaning ever-increasing wealth and power for one's progeny, one's ethnic progeny, one's descendants...that's their immortality. That ideology would explain why people would work on an intergenerational project of world control. Whereas this notion of a glafia that just seems like a random bunch of people...Why would any of those people even care who's in control of the world in the next generation? They would have no reason to.

So anyway, let's bring on Laurent and see what he thinks.

He has a new article out arguing that the Bronze Age Jewish ideology that we're seeing on display in the genocide of Gaza is outmoded and that the Weltgeist or world spirit today is far beyond that. And we can look to a better future as the Gaza genocide disappears and is ultimately seen as some sort of Bronze Age relic, along with the Yahwist or Jewish ideology that produced it.

So, hey, welcome, Laurent. How are you?

Laurent Guyenot: Hi, Kevin. I'm fine. Thank you. Hello, Mees. Nice to meet you...

Kevin, you summarized my theory, which is not my theory, really. It's a quite widely shared theory. There is an interesting debate between two different visions of who controls the world and how they are organized. You quite accurately represented my view. And the point you brought up, Kevin, is, I think, interesting. It's like if we think of it as a mafia, then a mafia is basically a family business or clan business, an ethnic business, but actually very much family-centered.

The Jewish mafia calls themselves the Mishpukah which means the family. And so a mafia means people who,if they control the world, they want their own children to control the world after them, and their grandchildren and so on, and their cousins.

Anthropologically it's like this. Human beings, even (criminal) those human beings, they have children, they have wives, they have cousins, they have brothers. They are sons, they are fathers. So they have this family, and a basic need to transmit their power, their fortune, their connections, their social world and so on to their children. That's automatic.

So in this case, we need to ask what kind of family, what kind of clan, what kind of ethnic background they have. And I strongly believe there is a...There might be different mafias, but actually, if we talk about the mafia in a literal sense in America, there was a Sicilian mafia and there was a Jewish mafia. But if you study this world, you quickly come up to the conclusion that the Jewish mafia is really on top. This was actually made...not very clear, but at least implicitly clear by the film The Godfather by Coppola.

Similarly, if we talk about not just the criminal networks—the mafia in the literal sense—but in a sense of the global network trying to control the world, I tend to think it's the same. The Jewish mafia is on top of others. There might be others too.

The other model to understand who's controlling us is not the mafia, but the Freemasonry model. Because Freemasons are not necessarily clannish. They introduce each other, not basically on a nepotistic basis—of course there is always a little bit of that, they bring their cousins in—but it's not supposed to be based on blood relationships. It's supposed to be based on just ideological connection.

So that's a possibility. The question is: Is it more of (an ethnic) mafia network or is it more a Freemasonry network of people who have a similar ideology, a similar purpose to change the world, to dominate the world?

But regarding this Freemasonry model, people who like it, people who envision the world like this, are generally people who underplay the Jewish element. For example, recently I've been writing a lot about the so-called "Satan worshipping pedophiles who control the world," according to one type of mythology which I consider quite naive. Because people imagine these Satan worshipping people as a kind of Freemasonry who meet in secret meetings and dress up with funny hats and kill babies and so on. But the point I was making in my articles is that these people cannot constitute a strong network, because a network that controls the world has to be connected by very, very intense loyalty. And such loyalty does not exist in Freemasonry, really. They're not that type. They can have influence, but they're not the type to commit crimes together. So I go for the mafia model and I go for the Jewish mafia on top of the other mafias.

Mees Baaijen: That's rather... I agree. It's... The core I talk about is dynastic families, clans who intermarry Jews with non-Jews, especially the British politicians, for example, of the 19th century. They use all kinds of mechanisms to hold everything together. And the ones that do not obey, I suppose they have their ways to control it. There are several mysterious Rothschild deaths, probably people that didn't want to continue within this system.

And it's a problem, of course, because there is the author of The Great Taking. https://www.linkedin.com/posts/andrewlafleche_the-great-taking-by-david-rogers-webb-is-activity-7165330975952986112-ztBD/  Maybe you've seen that? It's a book on how the financial world is organizing a takeover of all our properties in the coming years. And he is saying that for many of the descendants of these dynastic families, the ones who invented this whole plan centuries ago, it will be today very difficult for them to implement this. It's not an easy, it's a very difficult task. So, yeah, they have their own problems, but you can distinguish the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, and there are many of them, Italian families, because I think...between Genoa and Venice and the Jews expelled from Spain. They went to work together. They financed then the Dutch war for independence, etc. That's fairly clear. And then they went to England and then to America and now to China. That's why the title of my piece on the Jews is The Global Domination Project Is Not Jewish. Neither is it American.

Americans will be substituted. They will be used as useful idiots. They're interchangeable. If the Jews are interchangeable, we'll have to see.

I read your article today. And yes, I think Israel will end, but will Zionism or will this group end? You see them now active in all kinds of countries, Cyprus, Ukraine, Costa Rica to buy your properties. They are going to resettle after the...

Laurent Guyenot: Can I add one point to continue this debate on the identity of these people? Because if I listen to you, it sounds like a little bit an abstract model, because you don't name names. Of course, you just named the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers, and that's a good illustration of the debate. Is it the Rothschilds, who are Jewish, or the Rockefellers, who are not Jewish? Some people say they are, but basically they're not.

Mees Baaijen: They could be.

Laurent Guyenot: Well, they could be, but basically, you know, let's not speculate. So if we talk about the Jewish mafia, we have hundreds of names of people we could mention. People we know are controlling the elections with their money. We know they own the media. I don't have the list with me, but I think you would agree that we could name hundreds of names of people. And we know these people are intimately connected. They have a very strong ethnic identity. Anytime they feel accused as Jews, they're joined together, even though they might not like each other personally. But they form a very homogeneous organism when they are dealing with the outside world. We know these people, we can name them.

So when you talk about the bankers, then it becomes more difficult. And you are not naming names because it's more difficult. Anytime we want to name somebody, we end up with the Rockefellers. And then when you have said the Rockefellers, who else can you name?

So that is all very abstract. In my view, there is a very concrete model. We know who they are. We know how they work. We know that they have a common ideology. We know their ideology. Their ideology is based on the Bible, on Jewish chosenness, on Jewish superiority, Jewish paranoia,

Jewish feeling of being hated by the whole world for years, and so on and so on.

I've studied this and Kevin also knows very well, they have a very strong common ideology, which is a blood ideology, an ideology based on their sense of kinship.

Whereas the bankers, where is their ideology? I've never seen any credible definition or explanation of their supposed ideology, apart from the fact that they like money, they like control. But how can they be connected to each other? You don't connect, you don't create a network, just by a common ambition to be powerful, to get rich and to be on top of 99% of humankind. That's not an ideology strong enough to create a very powerful network.

Unless we understand that the Jewish are really—there's no other network like theirs. There's nothing compared to their capacity to unite, to work together as an octopus. You mentioned the octopus. The octopus is interesting because the octopus has one brain and then a brain in each tentacle.

And they're very much like this. But the tentacles don't fight each other. Tentacles, one can reach on the left and another one right. One can work in Hollywood and the other on Wall Street. But ultimately, they work together as an organism. And there is nothing else that you can compare to that.  The bankers cannot be considered like an organism in this way.

Mees Baaijen: Well, I'm not sure. I mean, if you say "We know who they are, we know how to deal with them," then for me, it's not (the real) mafia anymore. These must be proxies, because the ones that really are in the lead are not visible. They don't want to appear in lists of richest people in the world.

Laurent Guyenot: No. But Mayor Lansky—we know who he was, we know his name. Of course he was not advertising his crimes, but still we know who he was. Mayor Lansky was the top boss, the top godfather of the mafia in the 1950s and 60s. So even though they don't advertise how they work, we still know who they are.

Give me another name except the Rockefeller. Can you give me another name of these bankers who are ruling the world?We need names because if we don't have names, then we don't have evidence of this Freemasonic model of the ruling elite.

Mees Baaijen: There are more Jewish names and there are Italian names. And sure, there are also some aristocratic people involved. But the main argument I have against the thesis that it's a Jewish project is that they kill Jews by the millions. So the bankers with their proxies, they prepared the first world war and the second world war. They set up Hitler. You can already find that in Guido Preparata's book. I don't know if you know it.

Laurent Guyenot: No, but I know there was another famous book about the bankers who finance the Bolsheviks. And then the author wrote a second book about the bankers who financed Hitler. And I read both books by... Anthony Stutton. I found his book on the Bolsheviks absolutely convincing. But in fact, it's very well known that Bolsheviks were financed by New York bankers. But his book about bankers and especially Jewish bankers finance Hitler, I found it absolutely not convincing at all. Because all we can say is that American bankers worked with Germany. But everybody worked with Germany in the 1930s. Of course, some people helped Germany in the 1930s, obviously. Even the Bush family has been accused. Prescott Bush was investing in Germany in the 1930s, and he was blamed for it. But, you know, he was doing business.

The point you're making...it is true that these elite Jews, because when we talk about a Jewish network trying to control the world, in fact, we should think of them as the 1% Jews, just like we think about the 1% ruling the rest of the world. Even within the Jewish world, it's a little bit like this. It's 1% Jews who control the rest of the Jews, and through the rest of the Jews, they try to control the whole world.

So most Jews are manipulated by their own elite. This is actually a biblical pattern. In the Bible, it's always like this too. You see the Levites threatening and terrorizing the rest of the Jews. These 1% Jews, of course, will sacrifice other Jews, or let other Jews be sacrificed, when it's useful. But if we look closely, they generally try to avoid Jews being killed.

I have one famous example, Mordecai Vanunu. If he had not been Jewish, he would have been killed. He was not killed because explicitly, "we don't kill Jews." So they kidnapped him and put him in jail. And the reason why they say is explicitly, "we don't kill Jews." So they still have this code not to kill Jews. But they do, of course. The Jewish victims of World War II (were killed or allowed to die) to set up their Israeli state and so on.

Kevin Barrett: Well, Laurent, I think there are probably some Jews, powerful Jews, who are willing to kill other Jews–and others, such as the people in charge of Mossad when they kidnap Vanunu, who are not. Thomas Suarez's book, State of Terror, makes it clear that the early Haganah and these terrorist Irgun, these groups that became the IDF, were willing to kill their fellow Jews. The Jews that got in the way of the Zionist project were killed by these terrorists. So I think it depends. Jews, like everybody else, include different types of people.

Laurent Guyenot: That's an interesting debate. I feel it's a useful debate because a lot of people have difficulty understanding the Jewish mentality. And I think the only way to ultimately really understand the Jewish mentality is to understand that it's rooted in the Hebrew Bible. Because in the Hebrew Bible it's quite clear that they have a project. Their project is very explicitly written. And most Jews and especially Zionists, not only them, but especially Zionists—I showed in my book, From Yahweh to Zion that Kevin translated in English that they (the founders of Zionism) were very strongly biblical, which doesn't mean they were necessarily very religious.

Look at Netanyahu, still, just like Ben-Gurion before, he's quoting the Bible. When he wants to kill the people of Gaza, he's mentioning that they are like Amalek (the  non-Jewish tribe that the Biblical Yahweh orders the Jews to exterminate to the last man, woman, child, and even animal).

So the Bible is their project. The Bible is their ideology.

Mees Baaijen: All these people are atheists.

Laurent Guyenot: But that doesn't matter. They are biblical all the same. Because the Bible...

Mees Baaijen: But that's just a narrative. A false narrative. To convince others that they are...working to the Bible, because there are so many Christians.

Laurent Guyenot: Exactly. It's just a narrative. But if you read, for example, biographies of David Ben-Gurion, he's an archetypal example, he's very clear. His biographers always stress that he's an atheist. He ate pork for breakfast. He never went to the synagogue. He didn't know anything abobut the Talmud. But he was quoting the Bible all the time. ecause the Bible for many Jews is not a religious book. It's just the story of the Jewish people. In this story, there is one main character who is Yahweh, who is God. But people understand the Bible as the history of the Jewish people, the oldest people in the world, for 3000 years...This is their narrative.

When they founded the State of Israel in 1948 they explicitly, in their Declaration of Independence, declared this is the same Israel as the Israel founded by King David. For them, it's the same. So the Bible is a national narrative for them. The fact that there is a God in this narrative doesn't (matter that much).

Kevin Barrett: It's a mythology.

Laurent Guyenot: It's a mythology, but it gives them confidence that they are the only people who can control the world, because they have this strong common goal in a holy book.

It's very peculiar. That's why it's difficult for us to understand it, especially Christians who have been used to reading the Hebrew Bible allegorically as just announcing Christ and so on. So we don't understand how they read their Bible because they wrote it. So we're trying to tell them, well, you don't read it correctly. You have to put your Christian glasses and read it allegorically.

But they think... "get lost. We wrote the Bible. We know how to read it."

And they don't necessarily all read it as a religious book. That's a very important point which is hard to grasp. But it's very clear when you think about Ben-Gurion, when you think about Netanyahu. I don't think it's fair to say they're just pretending, they're just using the Bible as propaganda. I don't think it's fair to say that. I think they are really into it, you know, very deeply.

Mees Baaijen: If you see the role the Zionists played in the Second World War by rounding up the Jews in all of Europe—they collaborated with the Nazis. There are so many examples. How they got their Jews out of Iraq by terrorizing the Jews in Iraq to bring them to Palestine. It's totally against the spirit of the Bible.

Laurent Guyenot: No, no, no, it's not at all. In the Bible, you have a lot of passages exactly like this. The Levites, the special tribe that has no territory and lives off the tithes of the Jews settled in all the different cities...the Levites are the tribe of the priests. They threaten, they control, they murder, they slaughter thousands of Jews throughout the Bible. They are like the bodyguard of Moses.

And sometimes Moses says,for example in the golden calf episode, "you have to kill Jews who worship the golden calf."

So that's the Levites. The Levites have their sword. They're not just priests, they're warriors. And they slaughter about 3000 Jews, if I remember correctly.

So that happens all the time in the Bible. So (the Zionist terrorism against Jews to force them to emigrate to Israel) is fully biblical.

And another thing. During the Second World War, the Zionists wanted to bring all the Jews to Palestine. That was their priority. They prevented them from going anywhere else. they used the Holocaust. And, of course, the Holocaust was necessary for their project.

Kevin Barrett: Well, we're going to have to leave it there. People can learn more about it by reading Laurent Guyenot's great books including From Yahweh to Zion and Mees Baaijen's book The Predators vs. the People: The Big Picture of the 500-Year Secret War Against Humanity.

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