Mega Edition: Bryan Kohberger And The Incel Theory (9/5/26)

0:00Enjoy big savings with Red Hot deals at Vons and Albertsons. This week at Vons and Albertsons, baby back pork ribs are 299 per pound with membership where applicable limit 3 racks, and ballpark hot dogs or hamburger buns 8 count are 299 with digital coupon. Plus, personal seedless watermelons or cantaloupe are 199 each with digital coupon. Enjoy fresh and delicious savings for every meal. Hurry in, these deals won't last. Visit Vons or Albertsons.com for more deals and ways to save. Dave Roberts here, there you are surrounded by fans, sharing wings, sharing drinks, high fiving random strangers. Everybody remembers the game. Nobody remembers the guy coughing behind you until a few days later. At 2am, you wake up with a fever and your throat's on fire. Now what? Urgent care, clothes, ER, slam, telehealth, maybe, but the pharmacy's clothes. You needed a medical emergency kit. These aren't first aid kits, they contain essential prescriptions, used for over 30 common conditions, sinus and ear infection, UTIs, stomach bug, travelers diaria and more,

1:04on hand before you need them. Use your doctor-developed guidebook to select the right prescription or call their telemedicine doctor standing by. It's like an urgent care and drugstore at home. When you're sick, traveling or stranded, you'll wish you ordered a medical emergency kit. You hear about how he was treated by girls when he was younger and then you hear about how he was a loner. There were no women in his life. I know there's been some reports about Brian Coburger allegedly having women over at his house, reports about some Asian girl, but none of that's corroborated, right?

2:10So as far as I'm concerned, Brian Coburger is certainly on the margins of what we would call an insell. So what exactly is an insell? According to Wikipedia, an insell is a member of an online subculture of people who define themselves as unable to get a romantic or sexual partner despite desiring one or in layman's terms somebody who can't get laid. Discussions in insell forums are often characterized by resentment and hatred, misogyny, misanthropy, self-pity, and self-loathing, racism, a sense of entitlement to sex, and endorsement of violence against women and sexually active people. Now imagine having that kind of brain pattern, making its way through your brain. Oh, yeah, so I can't get laid. So let me go and kill a bunch of women and some dudes who are sexually active as well. Here's an idea. Get your shit together. Stop being an in grade. Get off of the computer for five minutes.

3:12Bring the cheetos off your hands and then maybe you'll get a date. The American Southern Poverty Law Center described the subculture as part of an online male supremacist ecosystem that is included in their list of hate groups. Insells are mostly male and heterosexual and are often white. Estimates of the overall size of the subculture vary greatly, ranging from thousands to hundreds of thousands of individuals. Since 2014, multiple mass killings have been perpetrated by self-identified insells, as well as other instances of violence or attempted violence. Insell communities have been increasingly criticized by scholars and commentators for their misogyny, the condoning and encouragement of violence and extremism. So that's what an insell is, according to Wikipedia. Now as I said in the opening, I have my doubts if I would classify Brian Coburger as your

4:12prototypical insell, but oh boy, it was certainly on the margins. So today we have an article from Airmel and the headline of this article is Idaho, Instagram and Insells. The alleged Moscow student murderers behavior is straight out of the Insell playbook. This article was authored by Nancy Joe Sales. On Instagram, Madison Mogen showed us a certain kind of perfect life. Whatever struggles she may have endured before falling victim to a killer, one morning in Moscow, Idaho on November 13th, on Instagram, she is always smiling. Her account is like a prototype for what social media culture demands of young women and girls that they look happy, sexy, occasionally, pensive and above all, and viable. And I think that's true of most people online, right? Most people and their online life, that's like a highlight reel.

5:12It's not showing you all the gritty, dirty parts of it that all of us go through. It's just giving you that highlight reel of people's lives that they want you to see. Mogen 21 shows us the life of a pretty blonde American college girl, a popular sorority girl. She was a member of Pi Beta Phi. She poses in formals and bikinis and the cutest outfits as she describes them, often popping her foot or bending down playfully, touching her knees. She strides gale into a building at the University of Idaho in a post she captions, heaven is a place on earth. She visits Cabo and Jamaica with friends, many of them blonde young women who resemble her. Lucky me, I have the best friends ever. Mogen captioned the picture of herself going jet skiing with two other blondes, beautiful, cute, stunning, gorge, her friends commented on her posts, fulfilling their duty per social media, conventions to comment enthusiastically, and with many emojis.

6:17See this stuff is foreign to me folks. When we start getting down to like the social media and the cultivating of likes and all of that, that's just not something I'm interested in. And I know I'm missing the boat financially by not being more active on social media, but it's just not my bag. I'm really not into it all the drama, all the arguing and all of the bullshit. It's just not for me. As a 43 year old man, those days are long over for your boy. That was the kind of shit I was doing on AOL in 1999. So I just can't get involved in all of that nonsense. But when you talk about social media and the appearance and the persona you're trying to pass, it's a huge deal for the younger generation, right? Everybody wants to keep up with the Joneses. It's chilling now to think that Brian Coburger could have been watching all this, seeing Mogen with her sweet smile and twinkling eyes, living her seemingly perfect life. You wonder if it made him angry, jealous, was Instagram for him, like a gallery of women

7:21to date, or perhaps target for violence? And that's something we've talked about here on the podcast previously. All of these social media accounts, that's a fertile ground for these sickos before they'd actually have to leave their house to find targets. Now they can just hop on the internet from wherever they are and go about it that way. Coburger 28, formerly a graduate student at Washington State University, has been accused of killing Mogen and the roommates, Kelly Gonsalves and Zana Kernotol, as well as Kernotol's boyfriend, Ethan Chapin, entering the girls' house around 4 a.m. and stabbing them to death in their beds. A story that AirML contributor, Howard Bloom, detailed in this publication. In January, people reported that Coburger had followed the three females on Instagram and about two weeks before the murders, message one of them repeatedly. He was definitely persistent, said an investigative source on the case. He slid into one of the girls DM several times, but she didn't respond.

8:26Basically it was just him saying, hey, how are you? But he did it again and again. And now we know, or at least we've heard from sources, that he also had the picture of one of the victims on his cell phone. And as we discussed in the previous articles, I think that person was Madison. When we look at everything and we go back and evaluate using hindsight, it certainly seems clear to me now that Madison was the original and intended target. Now of course, I can't prove that right. I don't have the facts to back that up. I'm just going by the circumstantial evidence that is available to us. And according to that evidence that has been provided, it certainly seems to me that Madison Mogen was the target here. Having a random guy slide into their DMs, direct messages, wouldn't cause most women alarm. However, creepy, it's now viewed as a regular feature of modern dating with magazines

9:27and YouTube videos, advising men on what types of messages to send in order to get a response. Most women will simply ignore the guy, which is what Mogen reportedly did. You wonder if being ignored made co-burger, I rate, I'm sure it played a part. I'm definitely sure it played a part, but there was a lot of other things going on as well. He had the issues at work, all of that pressure. And if he had these fantasies bubbling within them, that could have easily led to those fantasies becoming reality. The police haven't told us the motive in this case, but it seems like everybody has a theory. Women I've spoken to have said since the story broke that they believe the Idaho student murders were committed by someone who hates women. And that's certainly something that's been thrown out there from the very beginning of this. We've talked about the in cell theory before. And like I said, then it's certainly something that has to be discussed. We can't just discount the theory without knowing, right?

10:29You see the thing is we just don't know who Brian co burger really is yet. There's not been enough information provided. Sure, we've had some accounts from people who used to know them, from people who were going to school with them, but who is Brian co burger? What his motivations are? What he was thinking at the time, if he is the man who did this, let's remember, there's always a little bit of headroom for him not even to be the guy. We always got to keep that in mind. But who was Brian co burger and what would lead somebody to do something like this? That is the million dollar question. And so far we don't have any answers, which unfortunately wouldn't be surprising. Femisside is an under discussed problem in the United States, where nearly three women are murdered every day, most often by current or former intimate partners. And that's why at the very beginning of this, when we first heard about what was going on. I thought that it was going to end up being somebody that one of these girls were dating.

11:30But obviously it turned out to be something completely different. And just because the usual statistics say that it's an intimate partner or somebody that they know, we can't just hang our hat on that and think that that's going to be the case every single time. In the Idaho case, it was the look of the victims that first raised suspicions that this was a hate crime. Well, I don't know if I agree with that. I think that any time you have three girls murdered, you have to ask yourself if it was some kind of misogynist knucklehead who was behind all of it. Unfortunately, that's the society we live in. There was the fact that this happened in a house full of attractive girls. Chapin was just visiting and the nature of the killings by knife as the victims lay in bed seemed like a horrifying substitute for rape. A former FBI agent, Jennifer Kofin Daffer, told Newsweek days before a co-burger was arrested that she believed the murderer was an individual with absolutely horrible murderous desires

12:32against these women and perverted thoughts and anger toward women in general. They're known as in cells. And again, I don't know if I buy the in cell theory, right? I don't know enough about Brian co-burger yet to really jump into the pool with both feet on this in cell theory. Certainly something worth talking about, however, because he might fit into this category once we get all of his profile built, if you will. And that's going to take some more time. Remember this gag order is really impeding any kind of real investigative work here. Down the in cell rabbit hole. Since co-burgers arrest, there has been mounting speculation about whether he qualifies as an in cell. In cell, short four involuntary celibits are heterosexual men who blame women for their lack of romantic success. On hundreds of online forums, websites and blogs in the so-called Manosphere, they promote women hating and anti-feminism. They also tend to subscribe to white supremacy, and their rhetoric is often violent.

13:37Over the last decade, in cells have been tied to dozens of assaults and murders, as well as a couple of mass murders, including the 2018 attack by Alec Menassian, then 25, who plowed a van into a group of pedestrians in Toronto, killing 11 people and injuring 15, predominantly women. The in cell rebellion has already begun. Menassian wrote in a Facebook post prior to his attack. We will overthrow all the chads and the stasis. I guess that means if you have a boyfriend out there, you're a stacey, and fellas, if you have a girlfriend, I guess you're a chad. I mean, are these people for real? Like Get a Hobby, bro. Go play Dungeons & Dragons with your friends. Go play Magic the Gathering and quit your bullshit. In the Lexicon of In cells, stasis are beautiful, typically blonde girls who deny in cell sex. In cells believe it is their right to have sex with stasis. Not about what stasis want and hate them because they can't have them.

14:39They see stasis as stupid and shallow because they prefer men who in cells refer to as chads. Square-jawed jocks who enjoy great success with women. Do only in cells say to their handsomeness. Imagine having that kind of worldview where you sit on the internet all day, complain you can't get laid, and then decide that it's everybody else's fault. Here's an idea, take a shower, leave the house, and see how that works out for you. You can see how an in cell might have regarded the house where the Idaho victims lived as a veritable nest of stasis. The surviving roommates were also pretty blondes. This was the house co-burger drove past at least 12 times as if doing surveillance which police say they know from his cell phone records. What was he looking for when he repeatedly rolled past? Was he already planning an attack or was he looking for a glimpse into what he saw as a golden world full of beautiful blondes and their popular click?

15:42I think that he was obsessed with Madison and I think that's what caused him to surveil that place all of those times. And did he plan to kill them or her while he was going through all of these different trips out there? Who knows? But when he comes in front of that Jerry, the prosecution is certainly going to make it look like he was planning it. Dave Roberts here, there you are surrounded by fans, sharing wings, sharing drinks, high fiving random strangers. Everybody remembers the game. Nobody remembers the guy coughing behind you until a few days later at 2 a.m. you wake up with the fever and your throats on fire. Now what, urgent care, clothes, ER, slam, telehealth, maybe, but the pharmacies close. You needed a medical emergency kit. These aren't first aid kits. They contain essential prescriptions used for over 30 common conditions, sinus and ear infection, UTIs, stomach bug, travelers diarrhea and more. On hand before you need them. Use your doctor developed guidebook to select the right prescription or call their telemedicine

16:42doctor standing by. It's like an urgent care and drugstore at home. When you're sick, traveling or stranded, you'll wish you ordered a medical emergency kit. Go to your online and minutes and it's shipped to your door and say $45 with my promo code blue at urgent care kit dot com slash blue. That's promo code blue at urgent care kit dot com slash blue. Co burgers apparent obsession with girls deemed out of his league goes back to an early rejection. In middle school and broad Ed's, though Pennsylvania, his heart was reportedly broken by Kim Kennelly, a future high school cheerleader. By all accounts and overweight awkward boy, co burger would become relentless in his pursuit, repeatedly leaving love letters in Kennelly's locker and telling her he liked her reported the daily mail. She'd say, Oh my God, leave me alone. Kennelly's mother Sandra told the paper. In interviews former classmates say that co burger was bullied by the popular girls in school.

17:42They literally tortured him said an unnamed source in his senior year of high school. He lost about a hundred pounds apparently in an attempt to fit in, turning himself into a frightening looking version of Daniel Day Lewis in the age of innocence. But this extreme physical transformation couldn't change co burger's personality, which reportedly still felt off and now was becoming aggressive and mean spirited according to former classmates. In high school co burger reportedly started taking heroin to dull the pain of his existence. He later went to rehab and got sober. I feel like an organic sack of meat with no self worth. He wrote on an online forum when he was 16 in 2011. He developed a rare condition, visual snow spots before your eyes, which he said coincided with an increasing absence of emotion. I'm sure there's a lot of people with the same exact thing who don't go out and murder people. And yet through his trials and tribulations, co burger was apparently still arousing

18:47his female classmates. If he liked or was interested in a girl and she wasn't, he didn't understand why or just didn't accept her saying no and move on. Dominique Clark, who attended elementary and high school with co burger, told the New York Post. Later co burgers reported misogyny, extended to locker room talk. There was a comment he made and it was kind of a flippant guy talk thing, Benjamin Roberts, a fellow grad student at Washington State University, told CBS News. At one point, he just idly mentioned, you know, I can go down to a bar or a club and pretty much have any lady I want. Oh, big pimping, huh? Big baller over here. Tom Brady in the house, just going to walk into whatever bar or club he wants and leave with whatever lady he wants. Okay, sure. From everything we know about co burger, this sounds doubtful. The bravado of a man who would like to be a player, but drives a white Honda, a launcher at Washington State where he was pursuing a PhD in criminology, co burger reportedly turned

19:51off his female classmates by man explaining to them. His peers said he wrankled some people with a habit of over explaining and sounded particularly condescending when he spoke to his female classmates. The New York Times reported. In the manosphere, in cells like to talk about how they suffer from women's disregard, never taking responsibility for how their own misogynistic attitudes and behavior might be what's pushing women away. Yeah, you know, a little self evaluation is always a good idea, right? Before you start worrying about what everybody else is doing wrong, you should probably take a look in the mirror and ask yourself, what am I doing wrong? Another window into co burgers apparent failure to connect with women is in the story of Haley Wollett, 26, who in January posted a TikTok about how her Tinder date with co burgers seven years ago when she was an undergrad at Penn State Hazelton, and he was probably living with his parents in nearby all Brightesville.

20:53Wollett said co burger kept trying to touch her, making her uncomfortable until she finally got him to leave. After which, he messaged her, saying that she had good birthing hips, a small detail which suggests that co burger may have spent time in the manosphere. In cells believe that women exist purely for their reproductive and sexual capabilities, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. That whole entire world is so foreign to me and so weird. I just don't understand people that are going to sit on the computer and complain about not getting laid. It's not that difficult man, go out and find yourself a girl. You're going to sit there and cry and bitch and moan, not take showers, live with mommy and daddy forever, blame the whole world. Nobody wants to hear it. We all have problems. And if your biggest problem is you can't get laid, well, learn how to code. Look what it did for guys like Bill Gates and Elon Musk. Eleven days before the Idaho murders, according to the New York Times, co burger had a meeting

21:54with faculty members at Washington State University, which had been investigating his professionalism and his conduct around women in his role as a teaching assistant. Some female students reported that Mr. co burger had made them feel uncomfortable, including by allegedly following a female student to her car. He was fired in December. In cells like to be known for when they kill people or when they have a conquest like this, Dr. Carol Lieberman, a forensic psychiatrist, said on court TV. On the night of the murders, the killer left his knife sheath on the bed where a mogan and gonsolves had been sleeping. That knife sheath bears co burger's DNA according to the police. But if co burger was indeed the killer, you wonder how a grad student in criminology managed to forget this vital piece of evidence. Did he leave it there accidentally? Or was it his way of marking his kill? And that's certainly a discussion that we've had several times here on this podcast.

22:55And again, that's unfortunately something that we're not going to know until trial or maybe ever, depending on what Brian co burger has to say. If the killings were sexually motivated, then the sheath was akin to a discarded condom. Proof that its owner was the one who had been there violating those popular good looking young people. Before co burger was arrested, a Facebook group devoted to discussing the murders was visited by a user who called himself Papa Roger. Some group members later noticed that the person with the username had guessed rather too accurately about the knife sheath being left at the scene. Of the evidence released, Papa Roger commented, weeks before police released this detail, the murder weapon has been consistent as a large fixed blade knife. This leads me to believe that they found the sheath. So like I said in the beginning, I don't really know if this guy Papa Roger was Brian co burger, but I have my doubts. There's a lot of people that get on the internet and act the fool.

23:59Some believe Papa Roger was co burger himself, which would make his username a nod to his identification within cells as well as kind of a brag. Elliott Roger was the name of the misogynistic terrorist who killed six people and injured 14 others in Isle Vista, California in 2014 when he was 22 before turning the gun on himself. Roger is a hero to the in cell movement, which the US Secret Service National Threat Assessment Center has identified as a growing domestic terror threat. Through his murder spree and his online manifesto in which he blames his loneliness and isolation on women for refusing to have sex with him, Roger became the in cell king. All hail the Supreme gentleman, Elliott Roger. Alec Menacean wrote on Facebook before his 2018 Toronto attack in cells cheered. It's so weird to me to think that there's a whole group of people that base their whole entire existence on the fact that they can't get laid.

25:01We are haunted by the last photo Gon Sob has posted on Instagram just hours before she and a roommate's died. There is Mogen smiling sitting on the shoulders of Gon Sob is. They were like sisters inseparable since sixth grade. They are a car nodal and chapernum bracing. Whoever killed them, four people with loving connections, the type of connections co-burger never found in life and coveted in others. The senselessness of it is infuriating. Is that why we've become so obsessed with this story? And yet many other murders occur that are as shocking and deserving of our attention. So why the Idaho victims? Would it be where as obsessed with stasis as in cells are? Dead white girl holy grail of podcasts remarks BJ Novak as the cynical podcaster in the movie Vengeance. Alright folks, well there it is. Another entry into the catalog. This one talking about Brian co-burger and him possibly being in in cell.

26:02So what do you folks think? Do you think he fits into this category or do you think he fits somewhere else? Shoot me some emails and let me know. Alright folks, that's going to do it for this one. All of the information that goes with the episode can be found in the description box. What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. Like most of you out there, I've wondered over and over and over again what the motive could have been for Brian co-burger to allegedly kill four college students while they were home in their beds. And to tell you the truth, there aren't any good reasons that I can come up with. But the best reason that I've heard so far is simply because Brian co-burger was an in cell. And I know that sounds simple. But when you start looking at everything that we're finding out about him in context about how he was bullied, how he was a general outcast, you know, not welcomed among

27:03the popular groups and how that can lead to him having animosity for people like this later on in the future. Thus the in cell theory. Dave Roberts here, there you are surrounded by fans, sharing wings, sharing drinks, high fiving random strangers. Everybody remembers the game. Nobody remembers the guy coughing behind you until a few days later at 2 a.m. you wake up with the fever and your throats on fire. Now what, urgent care, close. ER, slam, telehealth, maybe, but the pharmacy's close. You needed a medical emergency kit. These aren't first aid kits. They contain essential prescriptions used for over 30 common conditions, sinus and ear infection, UTIs, stomach bug, travelers diarrhea and more. On hand before you need them. Use your doctor developed guidebook to select the right prescription or call their telemedicine doctor standing by. It's like an urgent care and drugstore at home. When you're sick, traveling or stranded, you'll wish you ordered a medical emergency kit. Order online in minutes and it's shipped to your door and say $45 with my promo code

28:06blue at urgentcare kit.com slash blue. That's promo code blue at urgentcare kit.com slash blue. So let's get into this article from the New York Post and let's see what Olivia Land has for us. Headline. Idaho murder suspect Brian co burger had an in cell complex that drove him to kill. University of Idaho murder suspect Brian co burger may have been driven to kill by his history of social issues and a possible in cell complex, a former FBI investigator told the post. And I knew once we started hearing from people that were in his life ex friends, people that were around them, people who knew him that we'd start to get more of a profile from some of these experts that are following along with the case. Like I've said to you a bunch of times, I'm not, you know, equipped to build a proper profile and come out here and tell you, oh, yeah, this, this, this and this.

29:07I'm certainly not a forensic expert. I'm certainly not a clinical psychologist. But when you look at what we have learned about Brian co burger, it certainly seems to me that this whole entire in cell theory certainly has some traction. The murders may have been an effort to assert some type of dominance, former FBI agent and security expert Pete Yacht mitz explained to the post this week and people like this people that commit these kinds of crimes. We know a lot of it's about control. And for some of these people who commit these crimes, the control is actually what gets them off, not the murder, not the sexual assault. If there is sexual assault, but the actual control part is what they're looking for to have that feeling of being in complete control of the situation, having control over everything about you, even your life and death. Co burger 28 was arrested late last month for the November 13 stabbing deaths of Kayley

30:12gone solvus Madison Mogen, Zanna Kernodal and Ethan Chapin at an off campus resident in Moscow, Idaho. Yacht mitz believes the brutality of the crime and co burger's history of social challenges may offer some hints to his possible motive. And I think that's definitely on the right track, whether that it's him being an in cell completely and his hatred of women or whatever, let him directly to doing this or we come to find out that it's something else like a perceived slight by one of these girls, you know, they ran into him at like a bar or something or a coffee shop or at work. He hit on him or something like that. And they weren't receptive to it. So he took it personal. And if you have this kind of personality and in cells type of personality and you're you know, willing to go to the next step like co burger allegedly was willing to do, then it becomes a very dangerous situation for the person who was perceived to slight

31:16you. I believe it continued stabbing of a victim indicates an uncontrollable rage and extreme anger. Yacht mitz said, noting that co burger has been described as socially awkward with a long history of interpersonal problems. I think he may have developed a sort of in cell complex. He surmised and when you're talking about, I hear demons and all the rest of the nonsense that co burger was allegedly talking about online and then you're accused of crimes like this. People are going to start to put all of that together and build a profile on you. And when I say people, I don't mean the tarot card reader. I'm talking about professionals, criminologists, X FBI agents and people that are well trained in the field and know the craft and these people are coming out and the profile that they're building on Brian co burger certainly leads to him being enraged and him being angry.

32:17But the real question is who if anyone that anger was directed at specifically and as of now at least us in the public here, we just don't know that we don't know who the target was. If there was a specific target or if it was something else. But when you look at everything that we have been privy to, it certainly looks like one of the girls was targeted. And I've said it once and I'll say it again, it has to be Madison or Kayleigh, right? At this point with everything we know, now I guess there's some room for discussion about which one of them it was. But for my money, I would have to say that either one of them was the original initial target by the killer who the government says is Brian co burger. So I think that's going to be a very important part of this to figure out if we're going to get to the bottom of it and we're going to get some answers, then they're going to have to figure that all out and figure out where the paths crossed, how you know, they came

33:19onto his radar and all of that jazz and it's a daunting task, right? They have to go through everything with a fine tooth comb because you know, co burger is not going to be any help. Not like he's going to get out there and start singing a song for the government. Dude, you know better. But then again, you take a look at this crime scene and you say to yourself, maybe he's maybe he's stupid enough to talk that would certainly be beneficial from a prosecution standpoint. Get this guy to talk to some kind of jailhouse niche or something like that. And who knows what kind of secret he'd start to spill. Dave Roberts here. There you are surrounded by fans, sharing wings, sharing drinks, high-fiving random strangers. Everybody remembers the game. Nobody remembers the guy coughing behind you until a few days later at 2am, you wake up with a fever and your throats on fire. Now what, urgent care, clothes, ER, slam, telehealth, maybe, but the pharmacies close. You needed a medical emergency kit. These aren't first aid kits.

34:19They contain essential prescriptions used for over 30 common conditions, sinus and ear infection, UTIs, stomach bug, travelers diarrhea and more. On hand before you need them. Use your doctor-developed guidebook to select the right prescription or call their telemedicine doctor standing by. It's like an urgent care and drugstore at home. When you're sick, traveling or stranded, you'll wish you ordered a medical emergency kit. Order online in minutes and it's shipped to your door and say $45 with my promo code blue at urgentcarekit.com slash blue. The term incell, an abbreviation for involuntarily celibate, is generally used to refer to men who struggle to establish romantic or sexual relationships. The identity is occasionally linked to misogynistic online forums and in extreme cases, crime. In 2021, self-professed incell, Tress Genko was busted for planning a mass shooting of

35:223,000 sorority sisters at an unnamed Ohio University. Genko 22, pled guilty to the sick plot and is facing life in prison. Sounds like a hell of a guy, huh? Let me go out here and plot to kill a bunch of sorority girls because none of them would ever want to hang out with me. Here's an idea buddy, take a shower, brush your teeth, comb your hair, hell maybe get a haircut, hit the gym and maybe just maybe you might be able to find a date. But if you let all that butter grow on your teeth, you don't take a shower, you smell funky, you look like a goofball. Well what do you expect bro? All these incells are like oh it's women, it's this one is that one. Meanwhile, they're sitting around smelling like shit, looking like shit and certainly acting like shit. Though it is not a proper psychological definition, psychology today noted last year that men who identify as incells often have poor mental health and experience feelings of victimhood

36:26and superiority and loneliness. And a lot of that is stoked by all of these grifters out there, people like Andrew Tate and others like him who prey on people, these weak ass dudes, Mr. I got picked and volleyball last my whole entire life. I've never had a girlfriend. So of course these dudes are going to be vulnerable to some knucklehead out here, pitching all kinds of nonsense. That's how it works with grifters and with snake oil salesmen. They look for vulnerable people who are easy to sink their hooks in. And when you're talking about an incell community like this, forget it. Yachtman's personal analysis of co burger, echo that of Dr. Carol Lieberman, a forensic psychiatrist who told court TV last week that she believed the suspect fit the incell profile. And he most certainly does with what we know. Now look, we don't know the whole guy's whole entire life story yet, right? We only know what we've been told by people that were around him in his previous life.

37:32And everything that we have heard has been pretty creepy, right? We haven't heard somebody come forward and say, oh, yeah, Brian average dude. Great guy. One of my favorite boyfriends ever. We broke up because we grew apart. Where are all the people coming out and saying stuff like that? Really haven't heard anything like that. So it would lead me to believe that there aren't many people out there that have anything really great to say about old boy. And once again, that means nothing in a court of law. But when you're looking at it in the totality of circumstantial evidence, it's not good for Brian co burger and it makes them look guilty as hell. I've been saying this from the beginning that he's an incell Lieberman said, explaining that she was largely convinced due to co burgers, alleged choice of victims or decision to target mostly female college students. So if he is an incell, I wonder if he was active on 4chan. You know, that's where all these clowns going hang out.

38:33And if he was active there, I wonder if they can trace his account and his post and see what he was up to because again, that helps build a profile of who the guy was. If he's sitting there talking about stuff like that in forums, well, chances are that's how he really feels, right? Whenever you have the error of anonymity, more than likely, you're going to be more willing to say things that you wouldn't say if you had to put your name behind it. So if they can find, you know, a burner account that co burger was using that he was using on a place like 4chan, especially, then they can really put something together, perhaps, about this whole entire incell theory. Lieberman was also intrigued by evidence, which suggested co burger returns to the crime scene in the hours after the murders. Incells like to be known for when they kill people or when they have a conquest like this,

39:34she said, on the one hand, he wanted to commit the perfect crime and not be caught. But on the other hand, he did want to be caught and be proud in a sense of what he did. And again, that fits with what I think as well. How many times have I said, it's almost like this dude wanted to get caught without sloppy you was at that crime scene with the sheath and all of the other stuff. So could it be he's looking for that sort of notoriety and wants to take this and the whole entire country basically on a ride with them throughout this, this trial. Now look, I don't know if that's his motivation. I have no idea, but it's certainly possible and like everything else, I'm not going to discount it until we have official word one way or the other. Because there are way too many unknowns in this case and we just don't know enough about Brian co burger or a hell the case overall to really have that kind of opinion yet. At the time of the murders, co burger was a doctoral student in criminology at Washington

40:34State University, just 15 minutes from Moscow, while WSU classmates described him as Gregorious peers from his Pennsylvania hometown remembered him as a loner who was bullied for his weight before spiraling into drug addiction. And that also could play into the whole in cell thing. He could have turned into an in cell after all of the abuse felt like he was getting picked on too much by the quote on quote cool kids and he's going to get his revenge. Sounds crazy to me and you, but to some people out there, this is like a legit scenario that they play out in their brain. Not a ledge middle school crush of co burgers, Kim Kenley reportedly even contacted the FBI about her experience with him. He would always say, okay, okay, I think you're very pretty, just like weird comments and cheats say, oh my God, leave me alone. Kenley's mother Sandra told the daily mail and I don't know how much stock we can put into

41:35all of that, right? We always have to be cautious of people who are trying to insert themselves into stories. But when you hear it from multiple people, you start to say to yourself, well, hey, look, maybe this all tracks. If all of these people are coming out and saying, oh boy, it was weird to shit, well, it was probably a pretty weird dude. And don't get me wrong. Just being weird doesn't make you guilty. But again, you have to look at the totality of everything we know. She did not give him the time of day when kids are little, they're mean. They don't say, oh my God, thank you, but no. Another middle school classmate who asked to remain anonymous told the outlet that the popular cheerleaders tortured co-burger. And it looks like another situation where you can say, so what big deal that happened so long ago, what does it matter? He moved on. Look at him. Has his criminology degree. He's a relatively successful guy. Has a TA job over at Washington state. So what does it matter?

42:36He got picked on. Well, obviously it matters. When you go back and you look at all of it now and you look at what he's being accused of, it obviously matters. The whole click of popular girls made fun of him in school. They were the cheerleaders and the ones that every kid had crushes on, they said. And the kids are nasty, right? I remember when I was a kid, I loved them the nicest person in the world. Could say some mean things. You don't really know any better when you're a kid. What when you're somebody who's an in-sell or somebody with these kinds of thoughts, you take that shit personally and it stays with you forever. And in some cases, it turns into violence. Co-burgers at a lesson social isolation was also reflected in posts he reportedly made to online forums, writing in one, two thousand and eleven entry that he felt like an organic sack of meat with no self worth. Hypothesis about the possible motive for co-burgers alleged crime come as investigators scramble

43:41to establish a link between him and the four victims. After a brief hearing on Thursday, the suspect remains in custody in Laetak County where he's being held without bail. Co-burger who has not entered a plea despite facing four counts of murder and one of felony burglary is expected back in court on June 26th. All right, folks. So what do you think? Do you think that Brian co-burger is an in-sell? Do you think that that could have driven him to commit these crimes if you think he committed these crimes? So shoot me some email and let me know what all of you think. All right, folks. That's going to do it for this one. If you like to contact me, you can do that at Bobby Kapuchee at protonmail.com. It's B-O-B-B-Y-C-A-P-U-C-C-I at protonmail.com. You can also find me on Twitter at B-O-B-B-Y underscore C-A-P-U-C-C-I.

44:42The link that I discuss can be found in the description box. One and welcome back to the program. One of the main questions I have and I'm sure most people have is what motivated Brian co-burger to allegedly commit these crimes. And at this point, we don't have any solid answers. All we have is a lot of speculation and a lot of opinions from experts in the various fields that deal with these sorts of crimes. And on today's episode, we're hearing from another one of these experts. This time a forensic psychiatrist named Ian Lamarrow. Dave Roberts here. There you are surrounded by fans, sharing wings, sharing drinks, high-fiving random strangers. Everybody remembers the game. Nobody remembers the guy coughing behind you until a few days later. At 2am, you wake up with a fever and your throat's on fire. Now what? Urgent care?

45:42Close. ER? Slam. Telehealth maybe, but the pharmacy's closed. You needed a medical emergency kit. These aren't first aid kits. They contain essential prescriptions used for over 30 common conditions. Dinos and ear infection, UTIs, stomach bug, travelers diarrhea and more. On hand before you need them. Use your doctor-developed guidebook to select the right prescription or call their telemedicine doctor standing by. It's like an urgent care and drugstore at home. When you're sick, traveling or stranded, you'll wish you ordered a medical emergency kit. Order online in minutes and it's shipped to your door and say $45 with my promo code blue at urgent care kit dot com slash blue. That's promo code blue at urgent care kit dot com slash blue. So let's get into this article from Newsweek and let's see what Mr. Lamarow has for us. Headline Idaho murder was chasing a thrill kill says forensic expert. This article was authored by James Bickerton.

46:43The murder of four University of Idaho students in the early hours of November 13th, 2022, was likely a thrill kill according to a leading forensic psychiatrist. And for those of you wondering what a thrill kill might be, here is what it says in Wikipedia. A thrill kill is a premeditated or random murder that is motivated by the sheer excitement of the act. While there have been attempts to categorize multiple murders such as identifying thrill killing as a type of hedonistic mass slaying, actual details of events frequently overlap category definitions, making attempts at such distinctions problematic. Those identified as thrill killers are typically young males, but other profile characteristics may vary according to Jack Levin, director of the Brutnik Center on conflict and violence at northeastern university. The major common denominator among those who commit thrill killings is that they usually

47:46feel inadequate and are driven by a need to feel powerful. To a certain extent, they thrill killers may make their victim suffer so that they can feel good said Levin. Sadism is fairly common in thrill killings. The killer might torture, degrade or rape his victims before he or she takes his or her life. They frequently have an ideal victim type who has certain physical characteristics. Thrill killers have been frequently romanticized in films. So just using that basic description of what a thrill killer is, certainly could see Brian Coburger being categorized as that if he is the person responsible for these murders. Certainly could be a situation where you have a thrill killer who decided that now is the time that I'm going to go and live out my fantasies. And the normal thinking folks, that sounds just completely batch it insane, but these people aren't wired the same way that most of us are.

48:47And when the facade of normalcy snaps for these people forget it, it snaps. Kaleigh Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Zanakernodal and Ethan Chapin were all stabbed to death when an intruder broke into a shared student house in the town of Moscow, Idaho. Brian Coburger, a 28 year old criminology PhD student, was arrested on December 30th and has been charged with four counts of first degree murder along with burglary. Coburger's legal team have indicated he will plead not guilty and he will seek to clear his name. Good luck with that. There is a ton of evidence against this dude and it's going to be a challenge for him to clear his name. And then you add in the situation with Antailer and the possible of possible conflict of interest and Brian Coburger might even be looking at having new legal counsel at some point. Speaking to newsweek in Lamarrow, a forensic psychiatrist and clinical assistant professor

49:48of psychiatry at the University of Arizona said initial evidence suggests the murders could have been a thrill kill. And look, we just don't know, right? If we're being honest, all of these experts, all of these legal scholars, they're just given their opinions as well. Now their opinions are grounded in more education than most of us as far as the topic at hand. But remember, these experts don't have access to all of the case files. They don't have access to all of the evidence. All they're doing is looking at the circumstantial evidence that's been provided and giving an assessment based on that. What I will say though is a lot of these experts end up being spot on when you hear what they say the way they break down the profile, what the person was motivated by a lot of these experts as far as these clinical psychologists, criminal profilers, they know what they're talking about and they know their business. So for me, I like to consume as much information as possible and get as much context as possible

50:52from as many people as possible. That way we're well armed and we're equipped to deal with this story as it evolves. He said, I have not seen sufficient information to establish a motive at this stage. Currently, this appears to be a thrill kill. The thrill could be emotional excitement or sexual. It could also be the thrill of executing the perfect murder. And that's certainly something we have to keep on the table. In my opinion, consider them. We don't know what the motivations were. I think that we can't discount anything that sounds logical. Obviously, anything that's out of there in fantasy land, that's something that I just discount right away. I don't want to hear about psychics or aliens or spirit boxes, any of that bullshit. But when we get the opinions of these experts, clinical psychologists and stuff like that, I think that that's worthwhile. And certainly something that needs to be explored. And when all is said and done, it's going to be something like this, a thrill kill or

51:55he had some kind of obsession, something like that will end up being the motivation. Lamaroo who emphasized that co-worker has yet to be convicted of any crime continued. It seems as though there is some speculation given his background in criminal studies that this could be the motive, the thrill of outsmarting the authorities. I've always thought that that was a plausible scenario that this guy thinks he's smarter than everybody else thinks that he's going to get away with it, planned it for all of these months, stalk these girls allegedly, case the house, knew where they worked, develop patterns, and he really thought he was going to get away with it. Well, breaking news, you're not as smart as you think, my friend. The adrenaline rush, the an excitement of the killings is the end goal. The online encounters with the victims, if guilty and accurate, could represent stalking hunting behavior that killers of this category exhibit as a way of stoking excitement in anticipation

52:55of the murders, the thrill of the hunt. And it lines up. If you look at what happened here, according to what the probable cause of David tells us, then it lines up with this possibly possibly being a thrill kill, certainly not something that can be discarded or discounted as a theory right now. And in my opinion, a top contender for what the motivation is going to be when all is said and done. Now you'll see how. According to the psychiatrist, the murderer likely took sadistic pleasure in the suffering inflicted on their victims. He explained creating fear, terror, and or pain in their victims will increase the intensity of the pleasure derived from their acts, the intensely personal and unusually violent nature of the murders, a large, fixed blade, such as a K bar military knife supports this. This process of hunting, stalking their victims, culminating in violent homicides is intensely pleasurable to these individuals, similar to the rush of narcotic drugs.

53:59The actual act sometimes is the aphrodisiac for these people. And usually you'll hear about a killer like this engaging in sexual assault or sexual abuse, and like that, but some of them, the act itself, the murder itself is the sexual gratification. And I'm not saying that's what happened here. I don't know, but we have seen many, many, many killers in the past exhibit these same sorts of behavior. Lamaroo emphasized that his comments were speculative as information regarding the defendant is extremely limited at this time. And there's no doubt everything that we talk about is pure speculation at this point. And it's going to stay that way until either the gag order is lifted or we get to the trial portion of what's going on here. Because with that gag order, no official sources are going to come out and talk about what's going on behind the scenes. That's over and done with, but there's going to be trickles.

55:01There's going to be leaks and you're going to hear from a lot of these experts who are building profiles on the alleged murderer, Brian Coburger and using their expertise to do so. He added the authorities have been uncharacteristically non-forthcoming with information, which suggests they are very concerned about protecting the integrity of the investigation itself and subsequent prosecution. Well, if that's the case, they better make sure they deal with that potential conflict of interest because that could end up being real bad for everybody involved. The state, the defendant and the victim's families. So if the integrity of the case is so important, the way they say it is, then they need to make sure that they're doing everything in their power to protect the integrity of the case and not just stamping out transparency. Police have yet to recover the murder weapon used to kill the four students, though they did recover a knife sheath at the crime scene. Caracorn Oodle, the mother of Zanna, has indicated she does not want Coburger to face the death

56:04penalty if convicted. Speaking to news nation, she said, I want to see him pay for what he's done. I'm not interested in a death penalty. That's not who I am. I don't believe in that, but I do believe he should spend the rest of his days in prison. The city of Moscow police department has been contacted for comment. And I don't know why they continue to do that. They're not going to comment on any of this at this point considering that gag order. So until we either get that gag order lifted or we get to trial, we'll continue to rely on the opinions and the breakdowns of these various experts. All right, everybody, that's going to do it for this one. All of the information that goes along with this episode can be found in the description box. You Dave Roberts here. There you are surrounded by fans, sharing wings, sharing drinks, high-fiving random strangers. Nobody remembers the game. Nobody remembers the guy coughing behind you until a few days later at 2 a.m. you wake

57:04up with a fever and your throats on fire. Now what, urgent care, clothes, ER, slam, telehealth, maybe, but the pharmacies close. You needed a medical emergency kit. These aren't first aid kits. They contain essential prescriptions used for over 30 common conditions, sinus and ear infection, UTIs, stomach bug, travelers diarrhea and more. One hand before you need them. Use your doctor-developed guidebook to select the right prescription or call their telemedicine doctor standing by. It's like an urgent care and drugstore at home. When you're sick, traveling or stranded, you'll wish you ordered a medical emergency kit. Order online in minutes and it's shipped to your door and say $45 with my promo code blue at urgentcarekit.com slash blue.