Mega Edition: Bryan Kohberger And The Motive Question (9/6/26)

0:00What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. As the Brian Colberger investigation was unfolding, one of the main questions that we had here on the podcast was how Brian Colberger ever met any of these girls. And once we found out about Maddie Mogen and her working at the Mad Greek and what people magazine had said about Brian Colberger going to the Mad Greek, I've always thought that that's where Brian Colberger had his first contact with Maddie Mogen. And I think from there that's where things spiraled out of control. Now that Mad Greek restaurant is no longer open up there in Idaho by the way. And when this was all first going down there was a lot of people, including the owners from that Mad Greek restaurant who denied the reports that Brian Colberger had ever been there. But I had people reach out to me, people who had worked there saying that that wasn't the case that Brian Colberger had been in there multiple times. While now there's a new book coming out by James Patterson.

1:01And in this book that was released on Monday, they're going down that same road. And according to the author of James Patterson, the most likely introduction Brian Colberger had to any of these girls or victims was at that restaurant. So in this episode we're going to dive into an article from ABC News and talk a little bit more about Brian Colberger, this new book and the Mad Greek. In the end line, new book on University of Idaho murders sheds light on Brian Colberger's potential motive. This article was authored by Kena Whitworth and Emily Shapiro. A new book on the University of Idaho murders attempts to lift the veil on the secrecy that shrouded the case, revealing what those closest to the students believe was the motive behind the admitted killer Brian Colberger's brutal crimes. And remember today there is a hearing about the gag order. So we'll know a lot more about if the gag order is going to be lifted anytime soon or

2:02not. And at this point with sentencing being the only thing left, it's time to go. That gag order has to be dropped. And I thought that that gag order was way restrictive from the very beginning. And I still think so now. Look I understand why they needed it, why they used it, but I don't like it. And I think they went too far with it. And then using that gag order in the manner they did, created a bunch of fertile ground for a bunch of morons to come up with a bunch of bullshit. And as we all know, that's exactly what they did. Bestselling author James Patterson and investigative reporter Vicki Ward teamed up for a new book release on Monday, The Idaho 4, and American Tragedy. The book not only poses a potential motive, but also sheds light on Colberger's life before the killings and follows multiple points of view of the timeline of the crime. That sent shockwave through Moscow and skyrocketed to a national attention. And I remember waking up the day after and I looked out my girlfriend and I said this

3:02story is going to be huge. This is going to be a gigantic story, especially considering the circumstances in which this went down. We have this little sleepy college town. We have four college kids just sleeping in their house. They get murdered for no reason. Yeah, that's going to be a huge story. Well, I had no idea just how huge it was going to become. For people who have followed this story, we wanted to give them closure. Patterson told ABC News. What he really means is he wanted to make some money, but that school will take some closure. Rumate's Maddie Mogan, Kelley Gon-Solves, Zana Kernotl, and Kernotl's boyfriend Ethan Chapin were all stabbed to death at the girls off campus house in the early hours of November 13th, 2022. Patterson and Ward conducted over 300 interviews with people who have ties to the case, including family and friends who believe Mogan was the target. And I've said that now for a while. At first, I thought it was Kayleigh. And that's because we were hearing the reports about the damage that was done to Kayleigh's

4:06body by the killer. But it turns out that it was Madison Mogan. At least that's what it looks like. And the rage that we saw with Kayleigh was Brian Coburger, bitch ass Brian Coburger, taking out his anger that Kayleigh ruined his time with Maddie. He didn't expect Kayleigh to be there. He thought it was going to be Maddie alone. He was going to be able to have whatever fucked up disgusting fantasy played out. But that wasn't the case. Kayleigh happened to be there and it threw Brian Coburger's plan into chaos. And that's why you see the overkill when it comes to Kayleigh. That also led by the way to Zanna and Ethan being murdered. Because if it was just Maddie, if she was there by herself, Coburger would have did what he did and he would have crept out. There would have been no FBI, no gigantic investigation like we saw and he probably would have got away with it. The problem for Coburger was that he wasn't expecting Kayleigh there and when he saw her there and the fight ensued, things went south.

5:08But I think one of the biggest tells when we're talking about the crime scene and the state of the body is that there was overkill with Kayleigh and that leads me to believe that Maddie was the target. There was consensus that it was Maddie that Coburger was going for and the victim's families I think would all agree with that word said. And I think that's probably the consensus with anybody who's followed the case at this point that Maddie Mogan was the target of Brian Coburger. But obviously it's still speculation, we don't have confirmation one way or the other, but the evidence certainly points us in that direction. Moscow police alleged Coburger's cell phone record show his phone appeared to be close to the victim's house on at least 12 occasions between August and the night of the murders, almost always late at night, yeah because he was casing the joint. If you listen to my episodes from early on, I basically called all of this, this is what I said he was doing. Bro was casing the joint was making sure that he had the right, you know, pathway had

6:09the right house knew their movements knew what time they were going to be awake, what their habits were. That's what he was doing. And a reminder me of this shit that Francis dollar hide was up to in the book red dragon. If you've ever read the book or saw the movie red dragon, you know that he would go in, you know, stake out these houses. He'd sit out there for hours on end watching the families. And that's what Brian Coburger was doing when it comes to King road. And I think that was relatively obvious from the beginning and the reason he was always there late at night is because that's when he planned to commit his crime late at night. So he's going to go and make sure the whole scenario is right. Make sure the situation is acceptable. That way when the time comes to carry out his disgusting ass bitch made attack, he has all his ducks in a row. The book described what it calls a recurring nightmare. The victim friend Emily Allen had after the murders. Allen said she imagined that the now admitted killer went to the restaurant where Morgan

7:11worked, expressed romantic interest in her and was rejected prompting him to retaliate. When the friends are told that the guy who murdered their friend is this guy Brian Coburger, they don't recognize his photo. They can't put it together. Ward said. That's when Emily said the only explanation that she and her boyfriend Hunter Johnson could come up with is the story that we tell as the story of her dream that Brian Coburger targeted Maddie and that he doesn't know the exact details, but that's her best guess. And yeah, I think that that's a great guess. I truly believe that Maddie was the target for all the reasons we discussed, but with that said, I surely remain open to any kind of evidence or any kind of information that leads us somewhere else. But as of right now, I don't think we've seen anything that would lead us to believe that anybody else was the target besides Maddie. And I think one of the tells is where did he go right away? Right to Maddie's room. And if he was staking the house out, then he most assuredly knew where Maddie's room

8:12was, what Maddie was up to. And according to reports, one of the places where they think Brian Coburger was watching the house from he had a direct line into Maddie's window. So I think that the evidence is overwhelming that Maddie was the target, but we just don't have that confirmation from any authorities yet. So of course, it's all still speculation. Prosecutors said Mogen was the first of the four killed, a knife sheath with Coburger's DNA was found under her body official said. The book also delves into Coburger's life as a criminology PhD student at nearby Washington State University at the time of the killings. Coburger, the criminologist, had such training for this and he almost committed the perfect crime, Patterson said. Had he not left the knife sheath, he probably wouldn't have got caught. And that's the truth. This dirty rotten son of a bitch thought he was just going to kill Maddie and he would have got away with it. And we all know he would have went and killed somebody else. But knowing what we know if he didn't leave that sheath, Pro would have got away with

9:13it. And that's terrifying to think about. In a wake of the shocking crime as police search for a suspect, one of the key sources of information was a surviving roommate Dylan, who told friends including Alon, what she saw on the night of the murders. It was really through Emily that we learned of what sort of roommate Dylan had gone through, Ward said. It sounded so surreal to them all because she said he had a black mask and he looked like he was carrying a black vacuum. And they're sitting there thinking who could this be and what on earth has happened. And we got a lot of questions answered as far as the motivation of the 911 call and when it was made and why somebody said that they were unconscious people there. So in that new documentary that's on Amazon, the Idaho documentary, it goes into the details of the kids who actually came to the house and made the phone call and it gives you more context. So if you get a chance, I would say watch that documentary. It doesn't really add too much, but you get to hear from people who were actually there

10:17and from the kids who made the phone call. And that was the context that we were missing for all these years. Co-Burger was arrested nearly seven weeks after the murders. After maintaining his innocence for more than two years on July 2nd, Co-Burger admitted to the quadruple killings in court and pleaded guilty to all counts. He'll be sentenced to four consecutive life sentences on the four first degree murder counts and the maximum penalty of ten years on the burglary count. Now as families prepare for next week's sentencing hearing on July 23rd, Patterson and Ward are hoping to give readers a true sense of the four victims. You will meet Ethan and Kaylee and Maddie and Zanna, Patterson added. You will meet them and you will feel them as human beings. And that's great, that's what it should be on. Once this son of a bitch Brian Co-Burger is sentenced, we should forget about his bitch ass and never even think about him again. Unless there's a helicopter ride coming and if there is, I want to do the push in.

11:18I spoke to Stacey Chapin Ethan's mom and she did say which was wonderful to hear that she's so glad that this book exists because it means that they're not forgotten Ward said. It's a tribute to them and their lives. And that's awesome to hear because it should be about the victims. From here on out that's what it should be about. Maddie about Zanna about Ethan about Kaylee and fuck this piece of shit Brian Co-Burger. I mean, I'm sure everybody wants to take this guy apart piece by piece. So as far as I'm concerned, once we get as much information as we can get out of them, then his bitch ass should be locked under the prison and never heard from ever again. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. One of the questions that everybody still has as far as these murders go surrounds the motive. What was the motive that Brian Co-Burger would have according to authorities to kill these

12:24four college students while they were in their beds and that has been a big mystery since this all started. Everybody has been asking that question. Why would he do this and why would he target these kids specifically? And when it comes to murder cases and it comes to trials, a lot of times on TV, you'll hear them talk about, well, you have to have a motive to make an arrest. That's not the case. You don't need a motive to get a conviction in court. If all of the other evidence is pointing at somebody, motive is not needed to secure that conviction. Now of course, it helps make your argument as prosecutors. When you can point to a reason why somebody would commit crimes like this, certainly bolsters your argument. But sometimes they're just sick degenerate people out there like Mr. Co-Burger, it would seem who don't have any rhyme or reason that goes with their madness. And who knows what it's going to end up being here, but I wouldn't be shocked if we find

13:28out that there is no motive whatsoever besides this guy's own degenerate thoughts. But as far as motive needed for a conviction, it is not necessary. Just like the murder weapon is not necessary either. So today we have an article from Newsweek. And in this article, we get the opinion on all of this of Bobby Chacon and X FBI agent. So let's dive into the article. Divine, why Brian Co-Burger's motive is not important for conviction. X FBI agent. This article was authored by Calita Rockman. The motive of the suspected killer of four University of Idaho students is not important for securing a conviction according to a retired FBI agent. And it's not. I know that there's that myth out there. Like I said in the opening, but you really don't need that motive if you have all of that other evidence. Now if you have no other evidence and you just say, Hey, look, this person killed so

14:30and so, well, you're going to have to prove that right. You're going to have to provide evidence and build your case, all of that stuff. But we've already seen the probable cause here. We've seen what the police have compiled so far and it's damning his hell. You don't need a motive. Not when you have all of the other evidence that they have compiled so far. And that's just what we know of. Can you imagine what they're cooking up behind the scenes? Brian Coburger, 28 is charged with four counts of first degree murder and one count of felony burglary in connection with the slangs of Kayley Gon Salvas, Madison Mogan, Zanakir Noodle and Ethan Chapin, a probable cause affidavit, unsealed on Thursday, revealed investigators, used DNA evidence, surveillance footage and cell phone records to connect Coburger to the crime. He was arrested at his parents home in Pennsylvania on December 30th and returned to Idaho to face charges. So it's not like they swooped them up on some flimsy charges here or on some flimsy

15:33evidence. Very strong evidence. Strong enough that the judge didn't offer bail strong enough that that probable cause warrant was signed pretty damn quick. And if it continues on this path, Brian Coburger's cooked, folks. I haven't seen one thing yet that would lead me to believe that he isn't the man that the authority say he is. Obviously he is more than entitled to his due process, but from my spot over here in the peanut gallery, oh boy, it looks as guilty as anybody I have ever seen. But one aspect of the case that the affidavit did not shed any light on was the motive for the killings. Bobby Chacon, a retired FBI agent said he believes investigators are gathering evidence that may shed light on Coburger's motive. And I'm pretty sure that they're doing that as well. They have to rebuild everything that he did online. They have to rebuild everywhere he went. And it's not an easy process. But once you have somebody in your crosshairs, the way the FBI and the investigators do here,

16:38it's a whole hell of a lot easier to build a profile on them and a working profile of what they were up to, where they were going, who they were hanging out with, what sort of establishments they were at, all of that because it's all going to come into play. They have to figure out how Coburger got these girls on his radar to begin with. And that seems to be the mystery right now that nobody can figure out. How did he even know about these girls? Where did he find them? Where did he come across them? I've said for quite some time now that I believe it was probably at the Mad Greek restaurant considering all of the other factors, but it could have been anywhere else too. A coffee shop, a supermarket at the movies, we just don't know. I think they've got an idea of the motive and they're looking for more evidence of that motive. He told news nations Brian Enten on Sunday, but it's not necessary to determine what the

17:38motive was to secure a murder conviction to Cohn said. And that's a fact. I know there's a lot of folks out there that think you need a motive, you need a weapon, you need a body. And while all of that stuff does make the prosecution's job a lot easier, it is not necessary or required to get a conviction. As an investigator, motive was the least important thing I did because most murder statutes, you don't need to prove why somebody does it. My main thrust as an investigator was who did this crime and how do I prove it? How do I help the prosecution get a conviction? He said, and that's really what it comes down to. I don't need to prove motive. If I can prove that you murdered somebody, all I need to prove is that you murdered them. The why of it was always the least important of it for me, unless it led to other things in the investigation, unless it is the blunt defense motion, a defense assertion that it was, you know, self defense or something like that.

18:42And we know that's not the case here. There's zero chance Brian coberger is going to be trying to use a self defense case when he's in somebody else's home there to commit murder. So again, the motive is really not something that is needed as far as prosecution goes, but it's certainly something that all of us would like to know. Obviously, everybody wants to wrap their mind around why somebody would do something like this. And even if it's something that we can't understand and something that doesn't correlate with regular thinking people, I think everybody wants to know what would motivate Brian coberger to do some shit like this. The four students were found dead in an off campus rental house in Moscow, Idaho, on November 13th. Goncalves, Mogen and Kernotl lived there with two roommates who were not harmed. Chapin was visiting Kernotl, his girlfriend, following the murders weeks went by without an arrest and police released few details about the investigation, leaving the town on

19:47edge. The affidavit revealed that coberger was on law enforcement's radar by late November and that a warrant for his arrest was requested after DNA taken from the trash outside his parents home was matched with DNA on a knife sheath recovered at the crime scene. And it's still bananas to me that Mr. Criminal Minds over here, Mr. Mandy Patanken from CSI is leaving his sheath at the crime scene. What an absolute moron. A Pennsylvania native coberger had arrived in Pullman, Washington just across the state border from Moscow sometime last summer to begin his doctoral studies in criminology at Washington State University. According to the affidavit, cell phone records show his phone was near the area where the murders occurred at least 12 times prior to November 13th. So for the investigators that establishes a pattern that establishes more probable cause

20:50for them to arrest Brian coberger. For all of that stuff that they were collecting, all that circumstantial evidence is what led up to that probable cause warrant being drawn up. Investigators will continue to look into what the motive was because prosecutors always like to tell the jury the story of why this happened to cone said, but why certainly is not needed for a conviction. It's not required by the statute and it's not, but he's not wrong. The jury's going to want to hear what happened, but with all of the other evidence that has been provided just circumstantially, my guess is even without the motive, they're going to paint a very vivid picture for these jurors. Determining motive is always the most nebulous part of a case like this, Chacon added because quite frankly, there is no rational reason to do this. And when we find out the why it will be very unsatisfying. Yeah, usually is, it usually is, but as a family member or a friend of one of the murdered,

21:53you always want to know why it happened. So it's going to be important for that portion of this anyway for them to determine what the motive was. Prosecutors, attorneys and investigators can no longer talk about the case after judge Megan Marshall issued a gag order last week prohibiting any of the parties from talking about anything reasonably likely to interfere with a fair trial. But Jason LeBarr, the public defender who represented co burger and Pennsylvania previously said co burger is eager to be exonerated. Well, I'm eager to hit mega bucks or the lottery and that's not going to happen anytime soon. So Mr. Co burger should probably batten down the hatches and get ready for the long haul. All right, folks, that's going to do it for this one. If you'd like to contact me, you can do that at Bobby Kapuchee at proton mail dot com. That's B O B B Y C A P U C C I at proton mail dot com.

22:57You can also find me on Twitter at B O B B Y underscore C A P U C C I the link that I discussed can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone? Welcome back to the program. Former FBI agent Jennifer Kaufendaffer is offering more opinion on the murders and on what might have driven the person or persons responsible to do this and the theory that she's talking about is one called them aside. Now for those of you who have been listening to the podcast, we've talked about this at length, considering what's going on down in Mexico and how there are so many missing women in so many different regions down there and how Femiside is a legit big time problem. And even in the Shankwella Robinson case, the Mexican government, they're rolling with the Femiside charges here against the killer of Shankwella Robinson. So Femiside, something you see down in Mexico, it's a law down there in America.

24:01We don't have a Femiside statute. So it's not something that is, you know, pursued when somebody is murdered. They don't call it Femiside here in America. But in Mexico, it's certainly a much more prevalent charge. So before we dive into this article, I wanted to take a minute and let's talk about what Femiside is and to do that, we're going to use the Wikipedia entry. Femiside or Femiside is a hate crime, which broadly defined as the intentional killing of women or girls because they are female, but definitions of it varied depending on cultural context. In 1976, the feminist author, Diana, E.H. Russell, first defined the term as the killing of females by males because they are female. Others broadened the meeting of the term by including the killing of females by females. In many Central American countries where organized crime is a prevalent issue, the term Femiside is used in reference to the violent killing of women and girls which are frequently

25:06perpetrated by gang members, a crime which is primarily committed in order to stoke fear and compliance among civilians. Opponents argue that since over 80% of all murder victims are men, the term places too much emphasis on the murder of females. However, a partner is responsible in almost 40% of homicides involving a female victim compared with the 6% of homicides involving a male victim. In addition, Femiside may be under-reported. In alternative term, gender side is considered more inclusive, however some feminists argue that the term perpetuates the taboo of the murder of females and enables the continual dominance of male structures in society. This also argue that the cause of Femiside are often different than those for Androside, whereas Androside is often linked to street violence, much Femiside involves domestic violence and forced abortions.

26:08Now look, down in a place like Mexico, this is a real big problem. And if you've listened to the podcast for a while, we've talked about people like the Bonnie Esca bar. We've talked about people like Ardeana Lopez and the things that they went through as far as their gruesome brutal murders and then how the prosecution tried to cover up for that. So down there in Mexico, it is a big thing. But we certainly have our own problems here in America when it comes to violence against women. But unfortunately in some of those cases that violence turns into death. So before we dove into this article, I just wanted to talk about Femisides real quick, just briefly. So everybody had a base of what it actually meant and what it was when Jennifer Coffin Daffer starts discussing it here. So with that said, let's hit this article from Newsweek and let's get caught up headline X FBI agent shares Femiside theory on Idaho murders.

27:12This article was authored by Colleta Rockman. The murder of four University of Idaho students last month may be a case of Femiside according to a former FBI agent, Kelley Goncalves, Madison Mogen, Zannecernodal and Ethan Chapin were found dead in an off campus rental house on November 13. The women lived at the house with two other female roommates who survived the attack while Chapin, Colonel's boyfriend, was visiting. Christmas Day marks six weeks since the brutal slaying stunned the tiny town of Moscow where the local police department have yet to identify a suspect or make an arrest. When this story was first breaking, I was convinced that they'd have it wrapped up relatively quickly. I figured the investigators would hit the house, they'd collect some DNA, they'd talk to some of the other people around and they'd have a suspect. Well, here we are six weeks later and none of that's occurred.

28:12Thanksgiving come and gone. Now it's Christmas day and still nothing. No suspects, no people of interest and no justice yet. Investigators on the case will be looking at everyone associated with each victim starting with their families and inner circles said Jennifer Coffin-Daffer, a former FBI agent. Because it hasn't been solved yet, I believe their past, the inner circles of these individuals, perhaps it is more of a very outlying individual. She told Newsweek and that's where I'm at right now too. Obviously, that can evolve as we get more information and more context, but the longer this goes, without somebody being caught or a real strong suspect being pointed at, the more I'm convinced it's somebody on the very fringes of their life or somebody they have never met at all. Coffin-Daffer said one theory is the killer is someone that may have built up anger against

29:13one or more of the slain students. But another theory, she is leaning towards is the killer is someone with perverted thoughts and anger towards women in general who took the opportunity to strike on the night of the murders. Very possible. Now look, I don't know if I buy into this Femissite theory in this instance. I'm not too sure if I'm there, but it's certainly an interesting theory to discuss. Considering we don't really know the motivation, we don't know who the person is, we don't know they're psyche. We can't rule it out. That's for damn sure. They're known as in cells who has watched this house, who is seeing all of these beautiful girls go in and out and their rage and their own personal horrific desires. They realized that night. And remember, that's what I was saying too. This could be somebody who has been watching them and then the night of the 13th or morning of the 13th. Well, that was the perfect time to strike. I mean, timing it right around the holidays like that.

30:16So if it was premeditated, that leads me to believe that this crime was committed when it was committed for a maximum impact on the families and on everyone around them right around the holidays to do this. I mean, obviously there's no optimal time for somebody to get murdered, but right around the holidays is really just unbelievably callous. Nobody's still in that area. Somebody that has seen these beautiful girls because only girls live there, right? An individual with absolutely horrible murderous desires against these women, a themiside type case, and it came to a boiling point combined with an opportunity. And we can't rule it out. When you're talking about something like this with no rhyme or reason, I don't think anything should be taken off the table. Besides the most crazy stuff like, you know, drug dealers or stuff like that. And while you can completely rule that out, I think you can put that at the bottom of the likelihood chart.

31:20Femiside is defined as the intentional murder of women because they are women. There are two categories of femiside, intimate and non-intimate. The former relates to the killing of women by current or former partners while the latter involves the killing of women by people with whom they did not share an intimate relationship. And as we work through this, it looks like nobody who was connected to these girls is responsible. Certainly not Jack, according to the police or anybody else that was around them or in their orbit. So the question remains, who is this person or persons who is responsible for these murders? And when you're trying to figure that out, you can't leave any of these theories or any of these profiles off the table. And I'm sure the investigators are going through all of these with a fine tooth comb and with BAU there. I'm sure they have an abundance of profiles built. The killer may have been someone who attended a party at the house or knew the victims very

32:24loosely. She added. I don't know if they attended a party here. I have a feeling that if this is the case and they were murdered by somebody not in their circle, that it's a complete stranger. Somebody who might have seen them at work. I haven't heard enough about what happened at that Mad Greek. You know, the restaurant they worked at, we haven't heard from anybody who works there really. Were the girls being Google that? Were there weirdos in there ever? I would guess so. It's right on the 95. One of the biggest arterials running through the state. In other words, the people there might not even know him other than that he was around in the peripheral, but somebody who would have gone and noticed, she said, so you have the perfect storm that night. And this person familiar with the house, familiar with when they came and left and familiar with that area to be able to leave quickly, familiar with the tree line of where they could have surveyed the house and seeing the lights go on and off and so forth and so forth.

33:26That could be why police have stated that they believe the murders were targeted, but have not concluded if the house or its occupants were the target, she said, and that makes sense. But my guess is here and look, my speculation is that somebody was watching this house from the wooded area. They had a direct line of sight into the house, into those bedrooms and they became obsessed with these girls. And we all know the result. Now again, that's just my speculation based on what we know so far. Could that change tomorrow? Hell, could that change this afternoon? Yep. If there's more evidence that's provided, wherever the evidence leads us, that's where we're going to go here on this podcast. Coffin Daffer said there have been many cases like that where people are attacked viciously and it's not by anybody in their circle, but rather it's somebody outside that circle completely that has issues in and of themselves that they acted out on.

34:27She pointed to the 1979 murder of 18 year old Michelle Martinco, who's killer Jerry Burns, was arrested in 2018, 39 years after she was found dead in her parents' car, outside a shopping mall, in Cedar Rapids, Iowa. Martinco was killed by a close acquaintance. Coffin Daffer wrote in a recent tweet, the case was solved with DNA, DNA, perseverance and the luck will likely solve the Idaho homicide case two. Well, I don't know about the DNA. I mean, at this point, they've run that DNA and it looks to me that the person or person's responsible here aren't encoders. So it's good to have that DNA, right? Because if you arrest somebody, you can really smack them hard and get that conviction to lock in if you have their DNA profile. But if you don't find somebody, you don't have a suspect that DNA is not going to do you any good. So I think personally, it's going to be a tip from the public that leads to the person

35:28here getting captured and for justice to be applied. All right, folks, that's going to do it for this one. If you'd like to contact me, you can do that at Bobbi Kupucci at proton mail.com. You can also find me on Twitter at B O B B Y underscore C A P U C C I the link that I discussed can be found in the description box. It is one and welcome back to the program. Whenever you have a case that draws as much interest as the murders in Moscow has drawn, they're going to get a bunch of people speculating on what happened. That's how this works. However, the speculation in this case has been in overdrive since day one. People getting all kinds of crazy talking about people by their government name, accusing people of all kinds of heinous wild shit with literally nothing to back it up.

36:33You have people using spirit boxes and tarot cards. Never mind all of the psychics running around telling you that they know who killed these girls and then saying that it's somebody like a professor. So there certainly has been a bunch of Yahoo's who have come out of the woodwork here. And anytime you have a big tent at the circus, that means there's going to be more clowns. And there is no doubt that the clown car has certainly shown up to this investigation. Today we have an article from the independent and the headline online sleuths hijacked the Idaho murder's case. Should we blame them? This article was authored by a Rachel Sharp. They were killed in a drug deal gone wrong. It was revenge for bullying another student found dead months earlier, a disgruntled student blame them for him being kicked out of a fraternity. The gang of frat boys decided to carry on a fight that broke out at a party earlier

37:34that night. The list goes on and on. These make up only a handful of the countless rumors and conspiracy theories circulating online in the weeks after four University of Idaho students were found butchered to death in the small college town of Moscow. And the whole drug deal gone wrong stuff. I mean, there were people out here talking about it was a cartel hit. It was this that the other thing and it made my eyes roll back into my head. This is not how the cartel operates. The cartel isn't going into Moscow and they're not sending an assassin to Moscow with a knife to murder four college students. I found that theory to be straight bananas that anyone would even believe that for one second was just insane to me. A disgruntled student blame them for him being kicked out of a fraternity. That didn't sound right either. In fact, I thought it would have to be somebody who was close to them, meaning an ex lover,

38:36something like that. But when all of that was proved to be not true, obviously it had to be somebody outside of their orbit. And unfortunately, that's what it turned out to be. Nobody who knew them, but it doesn't look like they knew him. But the emerging details appear even worse than the imaginations of online sleuths, a highly intelligent, seemingly high functioning suspect with an interest in the criminal mind allegedly enter the home in the dead of night dressed in all black and a mask and stabbed the four victims multiple times each. The suspect Brian co burger had no known connections to Kayleigh Gonsavis, Madison Mogen, Zannaker, Noodle and Ethan Chapin prior to that fateful night. And no motive has been revealed. The victims might not have even known he existed. And that's where I'm at. That's what I believe. I don't think that any of these kids had any idea that creepy co burger even existed.

39:37This dudes out here watching them. And I can't kick the thought of Francis dollar hide watching the houses in the book, the red dragon. Dude was out there lurking, setting up a pattern of what the people were doing when they came, when they left. And then at the perfect time, he'd go into the house and murder everybody. Now obviously little different here, but it's the same kind of scenario when you think about this dude sitting on the house, casing it, watching it and stalking these kids. And yet the affidavit suggests he stalked our home in the lead up to the attack. After spending years studying criminal justice and how criminals feel while committing their crimes, then that night he allegedly executed his own crime in a matter of minutes. Perhaps most chilling, one of two surviving roommates who were unharmed in the attack came face to face with the masked man thought to be the killer as he left the home. And something straight out of a horror movie, 100%.

40:40Imagine being this poor kid, Dylan and all the attacks and all the vitriol that's getting thrown her away. I mean, it's quite the leap for people out there to start saying, oh, yeah, she was involved. She helped him out. I mean, that's just crazy. Don't you think the investigators would know that? Don't you think they would have built that into their case? So it's ridiculous to me to see people going after the victim here and acting like she had something to do with this. You want to be mad at somebody, be mad at the suspect. Except this is no movie. It's real life for the families and friends of the murdered victims for the two roommates who had seemingly a close call with the violent killer and for the students and locals of Moscow now left to try and rebuild their lives. While America has long been fascinated with true crime, the shocking brutality and seeming randomness of the Moscow murders sent the internet sleuth community into overdrive.

41:42Conspiracy theories and rumors have dominated the investigation with thousands of people joining social media groups to discuss their take on what transpired and why. Now you see, I don't really have an issue with that. People are going to talk about what they want to talk about in these forums. And if they want to discuss what their theories are, hey, that's great. But when you start talking about people by their government name and start saying their murderers or they're involved in killings, that's where it becomes way, way too much. And that's where people should face penalties. If you're out here defaming somebody and you're calling them a murderer, you should probably face some penalties for that. No. One particular group on Reddit has now amassed 123,000 members ranking it in the top 1% of all groups on the platform in terms of size. Meanwhile, a Facebook group with users raising theories about the case has topped 220,000 members.

42:44But are the online sleuths that help or a hindrance? There's no doubt that the intentions are well meaning and that many of the individuals spending countless hours investigating the case from the comfort of their computers had a genuine desire to catch the killer. And I agree with that. I would say that the vast majority of people following this case, well, they just want some resolution and they want the person responsible to be held responsible. Then there's some people out there that get way too caught up in stuff like this. It takes over their lives. It dominates their lives. And they start, you know, falling into that rabbit hole. And what the big danger is, at least in my opinion, with anything like this is chasing your own confirmation bias. And when you start doing that, you're in real jeopardy of losing the plot. Many who took to Reddit or Facebook to share tips about the case told how they had already called in the information to the dedicated police tip line.

43:44But there's also no doubt that throughout the seven week investigation before Mr. Cole burgers arrest, Moscow police were forced to spend a considerable amount of time swatting away rumors. No, they weren't. They were not forced to do that. They did it on their own. They could have just said this is an ongoing investigation. We have no comment. But when you start getting into the nitty gritty of it, you set yourself up for people to dissect every single word you say. So that doesn't really help the investigation, right? And I think it was a good idea for them to move away from those press conferences and just start doing the press releases. There's a lot less room for misinterpretation when you have a press release that's, you know, on paper, rather than somebody up there giving a speech where reporters can trip them up or get them to say something that otherwise he might not have said. And the rumors weren't victim lists.

44:46Several innocent people, many of whom were grieving for their friends, were attacked by baseless accusations that they were responsible for the brutal crimes. Who do you guy who was spotted with Goncalves and Mogen at a food truck hours before their deaths and Goncalves former boyfriend, both came in the firing line while some of the victims families were targeted with death threats. The boyfriend of one of the surviving roommates responded to the social media critics add on slamming a sickening rumor that the couple and even his own father were involved in the murders. I mean, can you imagine sitting around and coming up with this shit? If you want to come up with fan fiction, write a book. You don't need to inject yourself into a situation like this with real lives and real people suffering and try to make it about you and come up with all kinds of weird ass fan fiction that is not even close to reality. Moscow police ended up compiling a list of individuals who had been shrouded in suspicion

45:51and who they had ruled out as potential suspects, a list that the department was forced to keep adding to day by day. And that's a good thing. Keep adding to it. You don't need to give the interviews, no need for the press conferences, just keep releasing these press releases. And yet one person who was never on the radar of the Army of Internet detectives was Brian Coburger. As well as impacting the police investigation, the online sleuths to some extent also impacted the media coverage, which was undeniably shaped by some of the more plausible tips that arose first on the likes of Reddit. And that's pretty sad, honestly. Follow the journalists out there who are covering stuff like this. You have to go and develop your own sources. Don't be lazy. Don't go on forums and don't spread rumors that are unverified. It's worth noting that there have been cases in the past where Internet sleuths did get answers. When Gabby Petito's remains were found after she vanished on a cross-country trip, her

46:54mother praised the online community for their involvement. They are incredible. The sleuths, the Internet sleuths, they do a great job. They really do, she said. And I think that was a little bit different of a case. It's like impairing apples and oranges almost. Now of course, the interest that was on par with what's going on here almost, but all of the other things surrounding this case are a whole lot different. People pretty much knew right away that bitch has ball headed barefooted. Melon Munchen, Brian Laundry was the one who heard Gabby Petito. You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to put it together that if you go on a trip with your girlfriend and you come home alone, that yes, something probably went down and you're probably responsible. And the sleuths in that case, they help find or remains using footage, right from the dashcam and different people who are at the park. So certainly there are points in time where Internet sleuthing and people doing investigations

47:57on their own. Certainly I've been successful in helping bring people to justice. Look at the golden state killer. At the very least there's no doubt that Internet sleuths can amplify a case reaching someone who may just hold that key piece of information investigators need. Mr. Colberger is in custody having denied the allegations against him as the awaits trial. Meanwhile, the online rumor mill around the Idaho murders hasn't stopped. Since then sleuths have honed in on an account that regularly posted in social media group discussions about the case before his arrest with many believing Mr. Colberger to be the person behind the account. Members claimed to have spotted Mr. Colberger in footage attending the victim's vigil. The man in the footage has since been revealed to be a different man. And despite police saying Mr. Colberger acted alone, the surviving roommate who state she saw a man believed to be the killer, a 19 year old who has gone through a traumatic experience

49:02is now facing relentless accusations of being involved. As interest in the case showing no signs of dying down, it's clear the online sleuths will continue to build their own investigations for better or for worse. Now I don't even think you can call people who are going after the surviving roommate and online sleuth, right? How about an online bully? Here's an idea. Leave them alone. Pretty simple, right? If you want to have anger, you want to have rage, you want to have all kinds of vitriol, aim that at the suspect, aim that at the fact that this punk ass motherfucker crept into their house and killed them while they were sleeping. Don't blame the 19 year old girl who went through a traumatic experience and we don't even have the context of what went down. That is straight up ludicrous to me. You're going to have people do what they're going to do and there's no stopping the internet.

50:03We all know that once the internet gets rolling, it's like an avalanche. So my advice is ignore the nonsense, stick to the meat and the potatoes and you're going to be fine. You're going to be on the right path. No psychics, no tarot card readers, no spirit boxes. You can miss me with all of that weird ass, snake oil salesman, the BS. All right, folks, that's going to do it for this one. If you'd like to contact me, you can do that at Bobbi Kapuchi at proton mail.com. That's B-O, B-B-Y, C-A-P-U, C-C-I at proton mail.com. You can also find me on Twitter at B-O, B-B-Y, underscore, C-A-P-U, C-C-I. The link that I discussed can be found in the description box.