Mega Edition: The FBI And The Multiple Trips To The House In Moscow (9/7/26)

0:00What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. As investigators begin to get back, some of the DNA evidence, we have an article from NBC News that goes into that DNA evidence a little bit further, and details a little bit about what goes down when an investigation like this is taking place. And I think it's a pretty interesting article, and it adds a little bit of context to what's going on, and what the investigators are facing with this monumental task. So let's just get right into the article and let's see what NBC News has for us. Headline, investigators untangling the Idaho students laying face a daunting task, parsing the DNA, victims' family, and the public are growing inpatient with police, investigating the University of Idaho's tabbings, but analyzing evidence could take weeks. And I don't think anyone who is logical is expecting them to rush through the process of going through the DNA.

1:05I think the main frustration for most people is simply the communication aspect of all of this. This article was authored by John Schoep, Eric Ortiz, and Tim Stello. The search for whoever fatally stabbed four University of Idaho students last month includes examining an enormous amount of biological and digital evidence, a kaleidoscope of potential clues, some obvious, some unseen, and some that may lead to the wrong answers. No suspect has been publicly identified, no weapon has been found, and police have said little about what they've learned, as a small college town of Moscow has become the focus of widespread grief, anger, and speculation. A break could come at any moment from a confession or the thousands of tips submitted to police. Such tips led the city's police department to ask the public on Wednesday for help tracking down the occupants of a white Hyundai Alontera

2:06in the early morning hours of November 13th, the day the students were found dead. The people in the car, which may have been near the house when the students were later discovered, could have critical information the department said. But in the absence of a sudden development, investigators are relying on forensic techniques to tackle a case and a time-consuming process that appears unusually complex, according to half a dozen experts in crime scene analysis and evidence gathering. And this is why I think it's going to be a tip that leads the police, the investigators, to finding the person responsible. This is a case that only the most experienced crime techs can solve and answer, said Jennifer Coffin-Daffer, who worked 25 years as an FBI agent and investigated violent crimes. It's going to take a long, long time. And there's no doubt it's going to take some time to go through all of this DNA. But with all of the resources being pumped into Moscow and all of the attention being placed on what

3:09happened, hopefully this DNA gets expedited. Coffin-Daffer and other experts told NBC News that the forensic investigation may be complicated by the chaotic nature of the murders, the layout of the rented house, where the victims were found, and the likelihood that many students hung out or partied there. That's for sure. This is what we said earlier. When you have a high traffic house like this, very difficult to come in and build a DNA template due to all of the contagion from so many people being at the house all the time. And this is another reason why I don't think it was drug-related. You're not going to have a stash house at a sorority house. That's crazy, where kids could stumble into one of the rooms drunk or even worse. What if a fight breaks out? The cops are called and they come in, they toss the house and find the drugs. So in my opinion, the very reason that this place is a DNA nightmare as far as contagion and finding, you know, a strand to follow, that's the same reason why it wouldn't be a stash house.

4:12You don't have all that traffic at a stash house. I know it's frustrating to people, but murder investigations are not a spectator event, said Howard Ryan, a former commander of a crime scene unit in the New Jersey state police, who is now a consultant for law enforcement. People are influenced by TV shows. They believe that these events and processing and work happens at a much more rapid pace and results are obtained much quicker than they really are. Well, look, I think they're conflating a little bit when you hear the police and all of these ex police officers and FBI come out on these tangents in normal circumstances. They're right about that because these cities, they're trying to turn over all of these murder cases at once. They don't have the resources to just jump in on one case. The labs are backed up forensics are backed up. But when you have the singular focus that we have here, things should move in a lot quicker manner and things should be processed in a lot quicker manner. Now does that mean that it's going to be overnight? No, of course not, but it's not your regular run

5:17of the mill homicide, say in the inner city where you have one detective working it. You have not only the detectives, but remember you have the FBI, you have other people that they've flown in. So you have a whole host and a whole army of people here who are working towards getting these results turned around quickly. Although blood can be a crucial source of DNA, investigators don't know from the start, which is the victims and which could be from the suspect. The same thing goes for other potential clues left behind. So investigators have to collect a lot of specimens. You can't assume each drop of blood is from the same person, said David Carter, a professor of criminal justice at Michigan State University, and former Kansas City Missouri police officer who specializes in homicide investigations and intelligence. Well, if you worked in KC, my guess is you've seen a few homicides, huh? Pretty violent place. And these guys who have worked in these big cities and who have worked as homicide police, especially, they have a intimate knowledge

6:22of how all of this stuff goes down because I mean, say you're working a place like Baltimore. How many homicides are you getting a year as an investigator? How many bodies are you catching? So these guys have a lot of experience with these crime scenes and how all of it works. You have to sample all of them and analyze them all to see if they belong to victims or a suspect. It is very time intensive. They're trying to find hairs, footprints from shoes, fingerprints, anything like that. Authorities in Idaho could be waiting on the outcomes of forensic analysis, which can take weeks or months to completely said they've got to look at it all. Carter said it's laborious, really laborious. And I agree under normal circumstances, but here when you have so many different investigators with their hands in the pie, this has to be expedited. Each day that passes disheartens victims families, fuels in patients from the public and adds to

7:24the pressure on authorities. The Moscow Police Department has called in the state police and FBI for help, charted the victims' final hours and ruled out a number of people as suspects, including two roommates who were in the house at the time of the November 13th killings. They've chased down unsubstantiated leads and tamped down speculation in rumors that have circulated in the absence of news. Police have also faced criticism from students and the local community for not providing more information about their investigation, including why they believe the stabbings were a targeted attack. Police have also released conflicting statements about the ongoing threat to the public. Moscow police have said they recognize out frustrating the lack of news can be for the families and the public, but do not want to jeopardize the case. We are at the point in the investigation where we're still gathering information, we're still gathering tips, we're still gathering evidence, we're still doing everything we need to do.

8:24Moscow Police Chief James Fry said in a video posted online Tuesday afternoon and there's no doubt that they are. I think that the main criticism from most people has been the messaging. How it's been packaged. Now of course you're going to have some Yahoo's who think they know better than the investigators. There's always those people out there who are sitting on their computers, they got their fingers stained with Cheetos, they're sucking down their stepdaddy terries, Mountain Dew, you know those folks and they're going to think they know better than FBI investigators. But the fact of the matter is this, we don't know even a portion of what these investigators know. The Moscow killings occurred in a three story, six bedroom rented house, about a half block from the University of Idaho campus, three of the victims Madison Mogen, Zana Kernoto, and Kaleighon Salvis lived in the house. The fourth, Ethan Chapin, 20, was Kernoto's boyfriend and was staying the night, police said. Two victims were found on the second floor and two on the

9:26third floor, police said. All were likely asleep and each were stabbed multiple times, some with wounds suggesting that they'd fought back against their attacker, police said, citing the corner. Two roommates on the first floor slept through the killings, police have said. Investigating a crime like this begins with securing the scene, which likely has already been walked through by witnesses and the first patrol officers to arrive. Experts said, not every scene, this scene, yeah for sure. This scene was definitely contaminated and there's not even a doubt about that, that's not speculation. Now, was the whole scene contaminated, meaning the actual rooms where the murders took place? Well, we don't have that information yet, but the actual crime scene of the rest of the house certainly contaminated. Then investigators document everything they see, taking photographs, writing notes, and creating 3D scans. Next, investigators move through the scene, swapping surfaces for DNA and fingerprints, collecting blood samples, and looking for clues and where

10:29the blood was found. So, you know, like in the shows or the movies, they come in with like the lights and they have a whole process and the people that come into these crime scenes to go through and collect this evidence, the best in the world. Not even a shadow of a doubt about how good they are at what they do. With four victims and multiple bedrooms and multiple floors of a house, each room becomes a scene unto itself, Ryan said. Many basic details have not been released, including the exact location of each victim, the order in which they were killed, and the extent, the extent of each of their wounds. Police have not publicly theorized how the killer entered and exited the house, but say there are no signs of forest entry or property damage. Investigators also said none of the victims were sexually assaulted. The weapon is believed to have been a fixed blade knife. So, with the whole not being sexually assaulted and all of the other circumstances that we have here,

11:31it was leading me to believe right away that it was somebody that they knew. And that's why I'm so confused here. No sexual assault, no forced entry. So all of the signs point to somebody that they might have known. But this is one of those cases where you can just throw precedent out the window. I think that when we finally get to a destination here, hopefully when we get to a destination here, of somebody being caught, it's going to throw us all for a, Moscow police said they have collected 113 pieces of evidence, but have not provided more details. They said they also received more than 5,000 tips by email and voicemail. More than 1,000 digital media submissions have been provided to the FBI. We're putting the pieces together. And I think when the picture is done, I think we'll have a real clear definition of what occurred and where to go. Aaron Snell and Idaho State Police spokesman told NBC News last week. And I'm sure that's what they're doing. They're, they're trying to put this puzzle together. And they don't have all of the pieces yet.

12:35And while it's slowly falling into place until you have all of the pieces, you don't really know what the puzzle is going to reveal, right? The FBI assigned nearly 50 investigators to the case, while the state police has placed more than a dozen investigators and forensic experts to provide testing and analysis to help Moscow's team of six detectives. So think about that. Moscow only had six detectives leading up to this. And when you're dealing with this kind of homicide, four kids, four people being killed. Imagine six detectives. That means no detectives for anything else in the town that's going on. So thankfully, they got all of this help. My thing is, what happened in the lead up before the help got here was the crime scene completely destroyed. You know, there's just a bunch of questions. The department declined to say how long the process of examining evidence would take or answer other questions about the investigation. Underlying the case is a sobering statistic. US police made arrests in less than half of homicides

13:41in 2021, according to FBI data. An analysis of 2019 data from the bureau shows authorities are 25% more likely to solve stabbings and shootings, but that data is from less than half of the nation's roughly 18,000 departments said Stephen Briggs, a professor of political science at North Dakota State University, whose studies clearance rates or the number of cases closed by arrests and other means. And this is the scary part, right? The thought that somebody can do something like this and get away with it. That's some terrifying stuff. And especially if we never get any more information about what went down. Researchers aren't sure why stabbings may be more likely to be solved, but Briggs said that homicides committed with sharp objects often bring the victim and offender into close contact, whereas those committed with firearms can occur in close proximity or greater

14:42distances. This may make the identification of a suspect easier or more likely for bystanders or other witnesses when they are present. And there's no doubt it just makes sense, logically speaking, that if you use a knife to kill somebody, there's going to be a better chance of you getting caught if you use a gun. The lack of an arrest has unsettled the University of Idaho, where many students have chosen not to return to campus for the remainder of the semester or are asking for police escorts around campus. Family members of victims have also expressed frustration. Stephen Gonsalves, Kaleigh's father, said in an interview last week that the lack of information released by the police has made him fear the investigation will lose momentum. I don't think that's going to happen. I think there's way too many people who have their eyes on this case. And I don't think that it's going to disappear from the public discourse until we have some resolution. Don't let this go cold. Like some of these cases that we've seen around, that just makes the

15:46pain last even longer. Gonsalves said, and again, I've seen people out here criticizing this man and it's bizarre to me. You have to have some set on you to sit around and criticize a father who just lost their daughter in such a manner. Experts stress that investigations like this one are nearly impossible to work quickly, given the level of evidence that needs to be processed and the potential for mistakes. Peter Yachtmetz, a retired FBI agent with three decades at the agency, specializing in security said the samples could number in the thousands and may not even be from the victims or the killer. A college apartment house can have a lot of people coming and going or staying the night. So who could not who could have left DNA evidence? It's a pretty daunting task. Yachtmetz said, and what about people who live there previously? I know it was a while ago, but maybe that DNA holds. The point is they have a monumental task on their hands and they're

16:46facing an uphill climb, but with all of the extra help, that should help to extradite this process and make things move in a quicker manner. Before getting answers about DNA, investigators see clues in the location of blood. If there isn't a lot of blood far from the body, it could show that there wasn't much of a struggle. Perhaps because the victim was killed while they slept, experts said, blood leading away from a body could mean the killer was injured. If the killer got blood on themselves, then they would likely try to remove it using towels, clothing, toilet paper, a sink, even the washing machine. How messy they were could provide insight into whether the killer had planned the crime or acted in the moment. Again, this is all stuff that the investigation is going to have to show us. It doesn't seem to me at this point that this was a rage killing like done in the moment, but I don't really know. I'm just telling you my guess, right? This evidence and the

17:46roadmap that it's going to create is going to help the investigators immensely in putting all of these pieces together. Investigators try to identify the blood drops that don't fit the larger pattern. Said George Hampikean, a DNA expert at Boise State University, and the executive director of the Idaho Innocence Project. That could be either from dripping from a knife or a hand as the person's walking away or from an injury to the assailant. If the assailant is not wearing gloves, their hands likely touch things that investigators can try to collect DNA from. Hampikean said, swabs and other items taken from the scene are sent to a crime lab where scientists look for signs of DNA. Finding enough genetic material to build a full DNA profile of a suspect can take days. Investigators also try to get DNA swabs from a wide array of people, some including the victims and those who have been ruled out as suspects are considered exclusionary. But experts also recommend

18:52getting swabs from anyone else investigators interview just in case. I think that's a good policy to have. You never know. You might have to come back to somebody later on like we saw with Richard Alan, so it's certainly good policy to get a collection here from everybody who might be involved. DNA profiles from potential suspects are run through a federal database collected by law enforcement agencies around the country of people arrested for or convicted of crimes. Profiles collected from unidentified suspects and unsolved crimes are also in the database known as CODIS. A match can lead authorities to a suspect who they must then locate and confirm a match with a process that can take days or weeks. So when you're dealing with CODIS, there's certainly a lot of information that has to be run. But remember, they're talking about generally speaking, meaning under normal circumstances. This is anything but normal circumstances. And with all of the resources

19:54thrown at this case, my guess is that the DNA went to the front of the line. If there is no hit in CODIS, then investigators can use other methods to find a DNA match. One method that has become widespread in recent years is genetic genealogy in which investigators enter an unknown suspect's DNA profile into databases compiled by consumer services, typically used by people to learn about their ancestors. Then using public genealogy records, they build family trees that could lead them to the killer. That process can take weeks or months. So there's no doubt that that's a laborious process there. And then going through that and trying to build family trees and that'll take some time. Biological evidence is just one aspect of the forensic investigation. Typically, the victims, computers, and phones are scanned for clues in emails, text messages, social media posts, internet searches, and photos.

20:57Fones can also reveal the victim's movements. And there's something called a geofence warrant that the police can use. And it's really frowned upon by people who are in the, you know, privacy issues. But the geofence warrant gives the authorities a whole range of ability when it comes to flagging people's mobile movements, getting their records. So my guess is a geofence warrant has been asked for and given at least to some extent here. Investigators can also get a judge's permission to ask Google and other tech companies for information about phones that were in the area of the murders, a tool known as geofence warrants. This method has led police to suspects on all sorts of crimes from murder to burglary. Ryan said he assumed that geofence warrants are being used in the Idaho case, along with other kinds of digital dragnets. My guess is that they're using geofence warrants. I've done a whole episode on geofence warrants in the past. Maybe I'll repost that one

21:59so that people can get a look at it and maybe get more context as to what it is. But he's not surprised that police in Idaho have not said whether they're doing any of this. As investigators, we don't owe the public real time updates. Investigations are sometimes done very quietly in clandestine and sometimes it has to be that way. Ryan said maybe they have someone under surveillance and they're waiting for results. Maybe they have someone or maybe they have nothing. And that's pretty much where we're all at, right? Maybe they have something. Maybe they don't. But I thought this article was interesting because it kind of gives you a little bit of inside look at what the investigators are doing and what their thought process might be as they're processing the evidence. All right, folks, well, that's going to do it for this one. If you'd like to contact me, you can do that at Bobbi Kapuchi at proton mail dot com. That's B O BBY C APU CCI at proton mail dot

23:01com. You can also find me on Twitter at B O BBY underscore C APU CCI. The link that I discussed can be found in the description box. What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. It turns out that it was a good thing that the house in Moscow wasn't torn down. And that's because the investigators have now returned to the house in Idaho as they continue their investigation. And this is why I said in the beginning when they were talking about tearing down this house that they should wait until we were to a point where the trial was over. Then you can do whatever you have to do. But until that point, it seems like a no-brainer to keep the crime scene standing and available to both sides if they'd like to go there to further their investigations. And obviously the prosecution did exactly that. Now we saw down in South Carolina when Alec Murdole was on trial, the jury actually went out to the crime scene to get a

24:04look at it for themselves. And I would not be shocked to see that happen here either. Especially considering now that this house is going to be still there, still standing during this trial. One thing that I do find a bit concerning however is the fact that the FBI needs to go back here at all. All of this evidence should have been collected previously. They had the 3D renderings of the house all of it. So why even release this house from the custody of the state, from the custody of the investigators back to the university if every single look in cranny wasn't looked at. And I wonder if Brian Coburger's defense team is going to use the fact that they had to go back for more investigative time there at the house if they're going to use that as a way to try and shake a little bit of reasonable doubt into the dish. Because you know that's what they're looking for. That is their goal. How can we find some reasonable doubt here to make it look like Brian Coburger is not the guy. And if you can start going after the credibility of the investigators,

25:10of the investigation, make it look like it was half-assed or whatever, that's only going to serve your client well. But you certainly run the risk of looking like a jackass if you take this path and there's nothing there. And Jerry certainly don't take too kindly to have in their leg pulled. They don't want to waste their time. You really think jers want to be there in that Jerry box listening to all this BS. They don't. They're not getting paid for it. Not as much as they're making at work. So people in general, they don't have time for BS when they're on a Jerry. So if you start pitching them a whole bunch of fairy tales and you don't have any evidence for it, it's going to be your client who suffers. Because remember, everything that happens in that courtroom should be fact-based. That ball does bounce both ways though. If the Jerry thinks that they're being dog walked by the prosecution, it's not going to be good for the prosecution either. So this is certainly something that both sides have to take into account when they're firing off claims one way or the other. But as a defense attorney, I don't know how you couldn't be

26:12screaming bloody murder that your client wasn't going to be able to have the crime scene available to you later on down the road if maybe you wanted to send more investigators. I would have been going crazy as the attorney because you never know. Just like this new situation is showing us. Today's article is from news nation and the headline, Coberger trial. Investigators return to the Idaho House. Coberger's trial has been delayed indefinitely. The FBI is gathering additional measurements and images of the home. Coberger is accused of killing for a university of Idaho students. Now I'm sure the FBI and the prosecution they'll just say look we're doing our due diligence here. We have more time on the docket now. We might as well head back out to the house and see what we can come up with. But the defense they're going to look at this and their narrative is going to be like I said a minute ago. They don't have any idea what they're doing. Look, they have to go back to the house.

27:12They don't even have their ducks in a row. They don't have all the evidence lined up. How could any Jerry trust them? That's going to be the narrative. The question is will it work? This article was authored by Devon Markham and Brian Anton. FBI investigators will return to the Idaho College Killings House Tuesday to gather additional evidence and measurements as the trial of suspect Brian Coberger has been delayed indefinitely according to a press release. So playing devil's advocate here. What other measurements could they possibly need and what other evidence could possibly be present at this house? Didn't they spend the whole bunch of days there? Didn't they have the whole place tented off? Didn't they have the BAU there? All the FBI forensic teams blah blah blah. So what is it that they missed and what initiated this new interest in taking another look at the house? Investigators are returning to the home on King Road in Moscow, Idaho to get documentation to construct visual and audio exhibits

28:15and a physical model of the home where four university students were killed. So the question is why wasn't this done previously? If you thought that this was going to be something that was important for the case, shouldn't this have been done when the house was under your custody in the first place? And again, I'm looking at it through the lens of the defense. I'm looking at it through the lens of how they're going to challenge this new information, this new development. The prosecution explained to the university that the original timeline to create visual displays and models of the home was not enough time. The FBI is using an extended trial timeline to gather additional measurements and images of the home now that all the personal items from the building have been removed. The release said, so again, I get it and I know why you'd want to do it. But the question is if this is something that you wanted to do or something that you thought necessary, why wasn't it done directly after all of these items were removed from the house?

29:15Why are we waiting until now when the trial was about to get started? And if you leave any sort of avenue for attack by the defense, they're going to jump onto it. And Taylor is not a stupid lawyer. She knows her business. She knows her craft. And if there is any sort of wiggle room, she's going to look to maneuver and get co-burger in a place where he can use that maybe to try and, you know, throw a little bit of doubt in what the prosecution has collected. The house will be resecured once officers can plead this step in their investigation. The physical house will no longer be destroyed this semester. The university said, however, the intention to eventually demolish it remains. Well, that's fine. And I've said this before. Wait until the trial is over and then do whatever you want to do with that property. Drop a nuclear bomb on it for all I care. But for the trial portion and when investigators or the defense might need to access that house to get more information,

30:17to keep things moving in the right direction, then that house should be there and be available for all of that to occur. And I'll tell you what, if I'm the defense and they find some new evidence in the house on this second search, I'm saying that somebody snuck in there and put that evidence there. Can anyone tell me with any confidence that nobody's been in that home? Now look, they might have security and this that the other thing what I'm talking about is a line of attack for co-burgers attorneys. And remember, all you have to do is get one juror to think that hey, maybe there's something there. And then that can throw everything right into chaos. And while I doubt that that line of attack is going to be Brian co-burgers path to victory, it certainly gives them something else to talk about at the very least. Because the evidence that's been presented against him is super strong and it's all connected by that DNA. And once you have that DNA as the glue binding everything else together, you're looking at a very, very tough

31:17road. So if this house can prove to be something that is beneficial to Brian co-burgers team, you better believe they're going to try and maneuver to get themselves in a position where they can use it. And on the flip side, the prosecution, well, they're going to keep going and doing what they're doing. They're going to keep collecting the evidence. They're going to keep building out these timelines and they're going to do everything in their power to keep that narrative going. That Brian co-burgers the man that they've been telling us he is. But as far as evidence, that's going to be found at the house now, I'm honestly stumped at what they think they're going to find. The pictures and the dimensions, all of that stuff, you would think that they'd know all of that already, right? Blueprints and this, that virtual recreations, all of it. But my guess is there's something else going on here and we're just not privy to it. What that might be, I have no idea. Co-burger is charged with first degree murder in the deaths of Kaylegan Salvis 21,

32:17Madison Mogen 21, Zanakernodal 20, and Ethan Chapin 20. They were found stabbed to death in November of 2022 in the off-capist house near the University of Idaho. The deaths of the four students shocked the country as initially there were few leads on what happened to the group, not just the country, but the whole world. This was literally an event that the whole world was following along with and was captivated by because it's so relatable, right? How many of us want to college? How many of us have kids that are this age? So when something like this occurs, it's very relatable to people and people get entranced by it, if you will, and they want to see what happens they want to know who's responsible, and most people want to see justice. Co-burger was arrested at his parents home in Pennsylvania after investigators used familial DNA to link Co-burger to evidence found at the crime scene. His trial was initially set to begin October 2, but his team

33:20requested more time to review the evidence. A new trial date has not been set. So some pretty interesting developments and I'm guessing that over the next few days, the next day or so maybe, we're going to get a little more information. As far as what they're really looking for, or what they're doing at that house, well that's known only to the investigators, but whatever they're doing, it's certainly worth keeping an eye on, and that's what we'll be doing here on the podcast. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box. It is what's up everyone and welcome back to the program. Today we're going to talk a little bit more about the FBI heading back to the house in Moscow, so that they could do their 3D imaging. Now the house was due to be demolished after the murders, but that has been delayed now after Co-burger waved his right to a speedy trial. And with this delay, it's allowed these investigators to go back there to create this 3D model.

34:21And the idea is to try and spare the jurors from having to take a trip out to the house themselves. Now is that going to be successful and is that going to be good enough for the jury? We don't know, but what the FBI is trying to do is have all of their ducks in a row before we get to a point where a jury even hears any of this. But right in the aftermath of the murders, they went in and did pretty much the same stuff. They had a 3D rendering made and the analysts and the technicians spent a considerable amount of time at the crime scene. So you would think that during the first time around that they would have had all that testing done. But I guess now that they have this delay, they want to be more thorough. They want to make sure that they have everything that they possibly can get from this house. But considering what we've seen so far from Brian Co-burger's defense team, we'll attempt to use this in Co-burger's favor and point out that the FBI doesn't know what they're doing. That's what they'll assert. Well, why did they have to go back to this house for a second time?

35:26Why didn't they get all this testing done the first time around? And even if none of that sticks, that's certainly a narrative that the defense is going to try to pitch because remember, it's all about reasonable doubt. All you have to do is get one juror to believe the narrative that you're pitching. So Brian Co-burger's team, they're going to grab onto whatever the hell they can to try and make that a reality. Today's article is from the Daily Mail and the headline, FBI spotted outside home where four Idaho University students were massacred as they do 3D imaging of the crime scene for Suspect Brian Co-burgers eventual trial. This article was authored by Dominic Eatman and Ruth Stiles. FBI agents have returned to collect more evidence from the house where Brian Co-burger allegedly murdered four University of Idaho students after an order for its demolition was delayed. Investigators descended on the house in Moscow last week to take

36:29precise measurements of each room for 3D modeling that can be presented to the jury when the grizzly case eventually goes to trial. Whenever that's going to be considering the delay we have here, that's still up in the air. The University, which now owns the building, planted demolish it after the hearing got underway. But that has been delayed by Co-burgers decision to wave his right to a speedy trial, which has now allowed the FBI to build more of a case. So waving is right to a speedy trial is most certainly a double edged sword. While he gets more time to help with his defense, the FBI is also getting more time to continue to build their case. And considering the evidence we've seen already, the last thing Brian Co-burger needs is more weight getting thrown on top of them. It also means that the jurors may be spared a visit to the house that was said to be dripping in blood and might have been ruled out if Co-burgers attorneys believed it would prejudice his defense. Visual displays take months to build,

37:34and we're not feasible under the timeline of an October trial. The University said in a statement, I don't know if I buy that honestly. They had ample time to make these renderings to get these different, you know, measurements, build these 3D models. So while they're acting like this is just routine, my guess is something initiated this. What that something is, I have no idea. While the measurements and details needed to build a model were taken at the time of the initial investigation, the FBI is using this extended trial timeline to gather their own measurements and images now that the personal property has been removed from the premises. It added, the former criminology student has been in jail since he was apprehended during a raid on his parents Poconos Mountains, Pennsylvania home on December 30, before being flown back to Idaho in a small Pilates PC 12 Turbo Prop Plane on January 4. So with all this extra time,

38:37you know that the FBI renderings are going to be on point. And when they unleashed their opening statement, meaning the prosecution, if history is any guide to us, it's going to be devastating for Brian Coburger. Think back to the Lori Valow trial and think about the opening statement when the prosecutors just absolutely blasted her. That's what's going to happen here. And it's not only going to be people talking about what happened. There's going to be slideshows. There's going to be all different kinds of renderings and models. And the jury is going to get a full view of what the FBI believes happened. Prosecutors in the gem state are looking to prove Coburger 28, broken to the group shared home in the early hours of November 13th last year before savagely murdering 21-year-old Madison Mogen, Kayley Goncalves, also 21, and 20-year-old Zana Kernotol and Ethan Chapin. He had his latest bid for freedom, denied on October 26th after he failed to have his indictment

39:41for murder, overturn due to what he said, or incorrect grand jury instructions. Good luck with that. That was never going to work. And you cannot like the grand jury, you can think that the grand jury is tilted in favor of the state, and I'd agree with you on both points. But with that said, these are the rules of the game. And since these are the rules of the game, these are the rules that have to be played by. So if the state thinks that a grand jury is the right way to go to get the indictment, then that's what they should be doing. Every single tool in the toolbox should be utilized. Five days later, a judge granted his attorneys or a quest that will allow them to review genetic genealogy evidence compiled against their client. Well, not so much evidence, right? It's how they got to that evidence. That's what they're going to get. And they're only going to get it after the judge has a look. So judge judge is going to take a look at all of the evidence that's going to be presented as far as IGG evidence and then hill the termin. What is going to be given over to the

40:46defense? Because remember, you have Idaho code, you have to live by. There's a lot that goes into this. And there's only so much that the defense is entitled to under those statutes. But knowing what we know about judge judge and the way that he's been overseeing this trial, my guess is that co-burgers team is going to get a lot of this information. Judge judge has been more than fair with the defense here. So I expect him to at the very least give them a look at some of this IGG information that was collected along the way. The defense previously revealed that they would be contesting the notion that co-burgers DNA was left at the scene on the knife sheath. They also claim that DNA from three other unidentified men was also found at the Idaho murder scene. Well, that's easy to explain. A lot of people in that house, it's a party house, people are coming and going. How many of those unidentified DNA profiles were found on the knife

41:48sheath? Let's talk about that counselor. So that's all a bunch of misdirection. Talking about the other DNA profiles and the rest of it, look, I understand why his team would bring it up, but it's much a do about nothing. There's no way that that's even going to come into play here. Unless, of course, that DNA was found on the knife sheath, then that makes it a whole different conversation. But without that DNA being found on the knife sheath, then that's pretty much just a moot point in my opinion. There's a lot of people in that house. We know it was a party house. We've seen multiple people coming and going. So while that sounds like it's something good for Brian co-burger, when you really get down to it and you look at it in context, I just don't think there's anything there. The defense also wants more information on how the FBI used the DNA to create family trees that led them to co-burger and his father in scranton for his early morning arrest. So what they're trying to do is poke holes in the way that that was built. They want to make sure that all of the

42:50DOJ policy was followed. They want to make sure that the chain of custody was respected. And they want to make sure that there was no prosecutorial misconduct at all. That's what they're doing. Remember folks, it's a game of loopholes and technicalities at this point for Brian co-burger. Co-burger has been locked up at the Leita County jail with prison sources telling deliml.com. He spends his time obsessing over TV coverage of the case and has turned to God, meeting with a local pastor every Sunday. How come all of these people find God after they become brutal ass murderers? Here's an idea, fine religion before you become a scumbag. The November 2022 killings shocked the tiny college town of Moscow, which had not seen a single murder for seven years when Madison, Kaylee, Ethan, and Zanna were found dead in their beds. Police initially appeared to be stumped by the murders and issued a series of contradictory statements over whether the students had been

43:51targeted and whether the public was at risk. And that was always my biggest criticism of what was going on here. The fact that the communication was terrible in the beginning made everything look like it was a shit show. But thankfully behind the scenes, the police work that was being done was solid. But the whole entire communication portion of it, not so much. Shortly before Thanksgiving, they released a photo of a white Hyundai Alantra and a plea for further information about the vehicle's movements and its owner. The car turned out to belong to Co-burger who, in an extraordinary twist, was pulled over twice while driving the vehicle back to Pennsylvania in early December. Since his arrest, it has emerged that loner Co-burger had battled heroin addiction in his teens and early 20s and was banned from a bar near his parents home due to his creepy behavior towards women. I'm honestly surprised that nobody busted his ass. You're at a bar acting creepy, chances are those girls, those women, they're going to be there with

44:55somebody and that somebody might give you that smoke. Police sources have since said that following his move to Pullman Washington to pursue a PhD in criminology, he applied to work for the Washington State University Police Department, but was turned down. How many of these serial killers wanted to be cops? Go all the way back to guys like Edmund Kemper. And what's scary is how many sickos have slipped through the cracks to become officers of the law. Fellow student said he took an unusual amount of interest in the Moscow murder case and described his sexist attitude towards women in his classes. As a result of his rude behavior towards women and his pension for grating them differently, he was fired by his professor at the WSU criminology department John Snyder on December 19th, just days before his arrest for murder. And he totally was spiraling at this point. If you go back and you read all the accounts from all of the people that knew him, students,

45:55friends, neighbors, whatever, oh boy, it was definitely spiraling right here. And he was probably worried about the repercussions. Remember Brian Coburger allegedly murdered four people, but in my opinion, he only went there to murder one. A date line report provided further evidence of his bizarre behavior with a female friend at Washington State University claiming he broke into her home a month before the murders and moved her possessions about to make her feel uneasy. Now what kind of weirdo does that? Yeah, let me go and break into your house and do a little bit of redecorating. Yeah, you're not weirder anything buddy. She also said she had asked him to set up security cameras to help her catch the person who had moved her belongings only to belatedly realize he was the culprit and chillingly had enjoyed access to the footage. Coburger is believed to have meticulously planned the murders of Madison, Kaylee, Ethan and Zanna with a probable cause, David, noting that he repeatedly

46:59visited the area around their home prior to the killings. The document also said his DNA found on a K-Barr knife sheath found next to the bodies of Kaylee and Madison and that he was seen in the home by a roommate Dylan Mortensen who was 19. Well, she saw somebody and that somebody resembles Brian Coburger. How far that goes that trial? That's up to the jury. Kaylee and Madison were discovered dead in the bed next to each other while Ethan and Zanna were found on the floor below. With Zanna discovered slumped over on the floor of her bedroom. According to the documents, survivors Mortensen and Bethany Funk heard something of what happened. With Mortensen telling Cobb, she heard Goncalda say there's someone here. Add approximately 4 a.m. 10 minutes later she heard a thud and crying from Zanna's room and a male voice saying it's okay. I'm going to help you. What is sick the generate bastard? I'm going to help you. If Brian Coburger is

48:01convicted of these murders, I hope that's what his cellmates says to him. Oh, don't worry buddy, I'm here to help you. And speaking of cellmates, I hear that Larry Nasser's former cellmate is looking for a new monkey. At 417 a.m., a dog was captured barking loudly on a neighbor's security camera. Around the same time Mortensen said she opened her bedroom door again and saw a tall male with bushy eyebrows leaving through the sliding glass doors at the back of the home. She described how she had been frozen in shock as the black clad male walked towards her and said she locked herself in her room after he left. A shoe print was later found outside her door. The affidavit also reveals that Coburger's white Hyundai Alantra was captured on camera near the scene before being seen driving rapidly away from the home towards Pullman at approximately 420 a.m. Police rapidly connected the vehicle to Coburger and noted the similarity between his

49:01appearance and Mortensen's description of the intruder at the rental home. So things are certainly still moving over here in Idaho and the FBI is certainly still building their case behind the scenes. The question is what else are they up to? And unfortunately we're not going to have that answer for some time. But the fact that they're still there, the fact that they're building more renderings, the fact that they have more time to really advance this ball across the goal line, certainly doesn't bode well for Brian Coburger. All right everybody that's going to do it for this one. All of the information that goes with this episode can be found in the description box.