Michael Matt: Rome Just Put the Vatican II Problem in Writing (Audio)

0:00Go into the world. And tell every man that you meet. There is a man on the cross. A Catholic take. What you need to know right now. A bold synthesis of inspiration and information. Keeping you up to date on the news and issues from a courageous Catholic perspective. A Catholic take with Joe McLean starts now. Praise be to Jesus Christ. Welcome back to a Catholic take. A bold synthesis of information and inspiration of your host. Joe McLean praise be to God. It is good to be on with you today. We're going to be talking to Michael Matt from the Remnant newspaper about the 60 year celebration of Nostra Tate. You know, they put out this documents to remember Nostra Tate because saying that there was a profound change in the church. A profound change.

1:01Where are we looking? Was that on the agenda? A profound change? Was that the Vatican II father's asking for a profound change? We talked to Bishop Strickland about it yesterday. If you missed that, I would encourage you. Check out the podcast. But I don't think anybody was voting well. I shouldn't say anybody. There were some that were voting for a profound change. But not the right ones. Michael Matt from the Remnant is going to be on at 30 past the hour to weigh in on that from the Remnant TV and the Remnant newspaper. We're going to be linking to a great article on this very subject from the Remnant today in the show notes. Also, I want to talk about and tell you a story. And I'm going to play a clip from a documentary film that I made and released back in 2019. If you can believe way back then. It was on the other side of fear. It was on the father one, my own father wound. But I tell a story in that film that I want to share with you. And I've told you I want to share more stories. I want to do more story telling.

2:01And this story is about courage. Carriage under fire. And I think you'll find it inspiring. I'll share that clip with you at 14 past the hour. So we've got a lot to get to today. I would be grateful if you would share us with a friend. But of course, we're going to put the show notes up at the top of the hour at the station of the cross.com Ford slash ACT. By the way, we're also going to have Nick Kovasovs on the team today. He's going to join us in the after show today. We might have a more usual long after show conversation where you get to share your opinion. But Nick is going to talk about a few things. Why did he stop posting on YouTube? That's going to be one of the conversations. Why did he go silent? He'll be here to talk about that with us in the after show again. Just go to the station of the cross.com. For slash ACT to be a part of that conversation. And you know, smash that share button. I'd be grateful. Let's pray. Let's get after it. And the name of the father, the son and the Holy Ghost. Amen.

3:01Remember, almost gracious Virgin Mary that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help or sought, thine intercession was left unadded, inspired by this confidence. I fly into the EO Virgin of Virgin's, my mother, to thee do I come before the I stand sinful and sorrowful. A mother of the wording carnit despised not my petitions, but in thy mercy here and dancer me. Now I'm Ed. And the name of the father, the son and the Holy Ghost. And now you're saint of the day. St. Hildegard of Bingen pray for us. Hildegard was born at the end of the 11th century to a minor German noble family in the Rhineland, a region along the famed Rhine River. She suffered from poor health and received little education, but began to experience mystical visions at a very early age. When she was still a child, her parents, perceiving their daughter's vocation, sent her to a Benedictine Abbey.

4:01After several years, though she resisted at first, Hildegard was chosen to succeed her late mentor as Abbas. Hildegard's pious leadership led to many fervent vocations, and soon she was commanded to record what she received in her visions. These writings made their way to Pope Blessed Eugene III, who added his approval to that of many other bishops and saints. Hildegard continued to write works of prophecy, theology, music, natural science, and other subjects, until her death in the year of our Lord 1179. Though the Sible of the Rhine was never formally canonized, veneration thrived and her name was placed in the martyrology. Pope Benedict XVI named her a doctor of the church. For more about the saints and seasons of the Catholic Church, visit thestationofthecross.com, forward slash saints and seasons. St. Hildegard of Bingen, pray for us. And now your headline news. Rarate Chaley reports Toronto Oratory confirms tradition as custodous takes effect immediately.

5:07Rarate Chaley published two reports of a prepared statement at the Toronto Oratory's parishes. The traditional Latin masses will begin to be replaced this Sunday. Also, traditional right baptisms, weddings and funerals are prescribed going forward with only already scheduled requests permitted. The Netherlands Times is reporting Dutch Review Committee approves the Netherlands' first euthanasia of a child under 12. The country's first case under the 2024 expansion of euthanasia to children ages 1 through 12. The child had been born at 26 weeks with severe brain damage, cerebral, palsy, visual impairment, and drug-resistant seizures. The doctors and parents, quote, decided to actively end the child's life, despite the fact the child was not actually dying. But that's again. Zeal reports Chicago Archdiocese settles decades old clergy abuse claims.

6:09The Archdiocese of Chicago reached nine settlements totaling 5.4 million over clergy sexual abuse allegations dating back to the early 1970s through the 90s. The Archdiocese said that the time frame is consistent with most claims coming forward today, and that this has been paid out so far over 400 million to survivors. And those are your headline news. The Gospel today at the Novosorto Misei was from Luke 7 verses 36 through 50. And at that time, one of the Pharisees desired Jesus to eat with him. And he went into the house of the Pharisee and sat down to meet. And behold a woman that was in the city, a sinner, when she knew that he sat at meet in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment and standing behind at his feet, she began to wash his feet with tears, and wiped them with the hairs of her head,

7:11and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment. And the Pharisee who had invited him, seeing it, spoke within himself, saying, this man, if he were a prophet, would know surely who and what manner of woman that this woman is that toucheth him, that she is a sinner. And Jesus answering said to him, Simon, I have somewhat to say to thee, but he said, master, say it. A certain creditor had two debtors, the one owed 500 pence and the other 50. And whereas they had not wherewith to pay, he forgave them both, which, therefore of the two, loved him most. Simon answering said, I suppose he to whom he forgave most. And he said to him, thou hast judged rightly, and turning to the woman he said unto Simon,

8:14does thou see this woman? I entered into thy house, thou gave us me no water for my feet, but she with tears hath washed my feet, and with her hairs hath wiped them. Thou gave us me no kiss, but she, since she came in, hath not ceased to kiss my feet. My head with oil thou didst not anoint, but she with ointment hath anointed my feet. Wherefore I say to thee, many sins are forgiven her, because she hath loved much, but to whom less is forgiven, he loveth less. And he said to her, thy sins are forgiven thee, and they that said it meet with him began to say within themselves, who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, thy faith hath made thee safe, go in peace, the gospel of the Lord.

9:19Louse TV Christie. He could read their thoughts. He knew what they were saying internally in their own mind and in their hearts, and he spoke and answered them. If that doesn't convince you, then God will give you his. I'll just have to pray for you, because I don't know what else to do. Cornelis Alapadeh, along with St. Christ's dumb notes, that everyone before her sought bodily healing. She was the first to run to him for forgiveness of sins. And he explains that he did, that he explains why she did it all in Simon's house. It was not fitting to anoint Christ in her own, so that there might be no suspicion of evil. He quotes St. Augustine, that she entered the house, an uninvited guest, and St. Christ sat at the feet, not for wine, but for the bitter tears of repentance.

10:22Archbishop Machieveli in his great commentary agrees she approached not like others who only sought for bodily cure, but in the spirit of true penance. The first is profound, isn't it? She was the first to ask for forgiveness, not just a healing, not like the lepers that wanted to be healed, the blind, the deaf, the dumb. Not that there's anything wrong with asking for those things, but she was the first to ask for forgiveness. Machieveli calls it all, but certain that she was Mary Magdalene, sister of Martha and Lazarus, pointing to the church's July 22nd office, and Christ promised that her act would be told wherever the gospel is preached. Cornelius Alapadeh, quoting St. Gregory, that which she had given up to the service of Sin, now she offers for the glory of God. And St. Scipian, the St. Scipian, rather, she used her hair for a napkin, her eyes for a picture, and her tears for water.

11:27But that's not again. That which she used for fornication and sin, as she is referred to as a harlot, she used those to do acts of reparation, with that you and I, who used to sin so very much with our voices, our bodies and more, would that we would use those same things to give glory to God. As much, perhaps even more, than we used them to sin. We'll be back in two minutes. Praise be to Jesus Christ. Welcome back to a Catholic takeable, synthesis of information and inspiration of your host, Jome of Clay, praise be to God it is. Good to be on with you coming up at 30 past the hour. Michael Matt from the Remnets going to be joining us. We're going to be weighing in on the 60 years of no stray atate. The profound change is the note that was published by the Vatican just the other day points out the profound change.

12:30Were we looking for a profound change? I don't, I wasn't, were you? I'm just curious. But Michael, Michael Matt says, you know, Pope Leo the 14 just put Vatican to problem in writing for everyone to contemplate. So we're going to be weighing in on that with Michael Matt from the Remnets coming up at 30 past the hour. But I do want to thank our sponsors, good friends of the show, praise be to God. CatholicMatch.com. A grateful for their sponsorship of what we do here at the station across and the Jome of Clay and YouTube channel. If you're trying to discern marriage or you have no somebody who is like my kids are at that age, they're discerning. You want them to have a tool to be able to do that well because marriage is a sacrament in any good time and it's just a warm and fuzzy feeling. It's a sacrament. God's actual grace communicated between a man and a woman despite what your politicians, you know, want to say a man and a woman committed until death do they part in the sacrament of matrimony. Trying to raise their kids and get each other to heaven. That's a very serious thing.

13:33You don't want to be unequally yoked and as Bishop Athanasius and I pointed out recently, you need a spouse who's 100% on the team. 95% simply won't do. So a tool that can help you do that, sort through the noise and the fat of it all is CatholicMatch.com. Downloading your IOWS or Android App Store, free to create your profile and start asking the tough questions. And there's hundreds of thousands of Catholic singles, most of which simply will not be a good fit. You're not looking for most, you're looking for the one. And it's a tool that can help you do just that. CatholicMatch.com, thousands of testimonies and marriages all across the world already. So thank you, CatholicMatch.com for your generosity. Check them out today, CatholicMatch.com. Also, I want to thank our friends over at iCatholicMobile. iCatholicMobile.com, praise be to God, friends of the show, so grateful for their sponsorship, long time sponsorship with that. But they're more than just a wireless phone company, more than unlimited text talking data and all that stuff.

14:34They've got plans for everybody and every level of your budget that can sell you phones and all of that. It is way more than that. It's a CatholicMobile company consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Is your phone company consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary because mine is? And we've loved our service at iCatholicMobile. It says, served my family very, very well. So we're very grateful to iCatholicMobile for their generosity. Praise be to God in all things. Thank you, iCatholicMobile. Back in 2019, I published a documentary film called The Other Side of Fear. And I got to tell you, this was a passion project to say the least. I want to tell you a story. I've been saying I want to tell more stories on this show. The other day I told you the story of 1683, September the 11th, the Battle of Vienna.

15:37That's on the podcast. But today I want to play a clip of somebody you've probably never heard your entire life. Thomas Higgins. It's a story of great courage under great fire. But back in 2018, I was discerning what to do 2018, 2019. I was praying to God. You know, how can I spend my length the most effective way? I was in adoration. And I felt the Lord tell me He wanted me to contemplate fear during Lent. And I'm like, fear. What kind of fear? Lord fear, fear of spiders and snakes, fear of heights. Like what are we to fear of public speaking? Like what are we talking about? And He told me to go deeper. So I spent my length contemplating fear. I reread, you know, parts of the Old Testament, especially the Exodus account. And all of the times that the people of God, the stiff necked, hard hearted, people of God, acted in fear rather than faith. And by the end of Lent as we approached Easter, I realized that God was asking me to do more with fear.

16:46And then I got the call that my aunt passed away. The reality was I hadn't talked to my father in seven years. We were estranged for seven years, until I went to his sister's house. And that was the journey that kicked off this documentary film. My father wound. And that's what my film is about. I published it on the Feast of St. Max Cole Day in 2019. It's called the other side of fear facing the father wound. But I want to play a clip for you that I think is going to be profound about a story about the name of a man called Sergeant Thomas Higgins. Have a listen to this. It's the house my parents divorced in. That's the dark spaces of my life. I need Christ more than ever. That my whole life came on wound when I was six years old right over there.

17:49And tomorrow my dad and I are going to go face that. And I hope I have the courage for it. It happens a lot you know. We get to this point in the journey that fear creeps in our hearts pound and we begin to doubt. This is the moment we either charge forward or we run in retreat. For what's about to happen next? I feel like I have to tell you a story. The story of somebody who lived a very long time ago. Somebody you've never heard of. But this story could affect the outcome. So travel with me as I journey to La Crosse, Wisconsin. To tell the story of Sergeant Thomas Higgins. It was 9.59 in the morning. It was a Friday May 22nd, 1863. Sergeant Thomas Higgins gripped the pole that held the American flag with all his might. His throat was pretty dry. His hands were clamming.

18:53And his heart was beating out of its chest. He made the sign of the cross. And right at 10 o'clock the cannon stopped firing. For two hours they rocked the earth. And for two hours the Confederates on the other side of the line said that the earth was alive as it undulated. Because there was so much cannon fire that day. A three mile stretch of the line. Grant would send his entire force into action against the most fortified city in America during the Civil War. Vicksburg, Mississippi. They called it the Gibraltar. The Confederates were ready. The Confederates had a distinct advantage. On Tuesday of that week Grant tried to get it over with quickly sending thousands of men against the stronghold in the northeast. To lose only a thousand men with the Confederates only lost 70.

19:55The grant had one more chance. One more chance to take the key Abraham Lincoln would say Vicksburg is the key to winning the war. And we must put it in our pocket. Standing to the side of Sergeant Thomas Higgins with a voice from Illinois and the voice from Wisconsin. So Sergeant Thomas Higgins approached Captain Matthews that morning and said, I would like to volunteer to carry the flag into combat. Captain Matthews said, I'll let you carry it on one condition and one condition only. You do not stop until you are inside their lines. 10 a.m. the cannon fire stop. It was the first time in the history of all the world that battlefield commanders coordinated and synchronized their watches. Now the Confederates that Thomas Higgins was facing, unfortunately for him, were the second Texas infantry and infantry boys from Texas know how to shoot. The Texans could see the blue hats cresting the brow of the hill.

20:59They had about a hundred yard march before they would get to the ditches. And once you got to the ditch, it's like this space here. I had to drop down, cross over six to eight feet, and then climb up a steep hill of over their works with spikes and everything else to get over and inside the Confederate lines. And all the while you'd be shot at and all the while they throw bombs at you and you'd have spikes and all that stuff. Now the problem that the Union soldiers had was that they could not maintain a constant rate of fire while on the hoof. The Texans didn't have that problem. They had superior position, they had an elevated position, they had superior firepower and that the man on the wall, he'd pull the trigger, pass an empty back and get a loaded. And he could just sit there and fire constantly. There was three men deep reloading those rifles. As if by one shot the line rang out on the Confederates and they opened fire and they began to decimate the Union soldiers making their advance.

22:02And the battlefield filled up with smoke and the Confederates couldn't see what they were shooting at so they stopped firing. And all that could hear was the screams of the wounded and the dying. And then the gentle May breeze came through and began to clear the battlefield of its smoke. The Texans could see the retreat of the Union soldiers, save one man, just one man in his American flag. Thomas Higgins kept his march towards the Confederate lines all by himself. A hundred Texans took shots at him to kill him, almost at point blank range at this point and they missed. And by this point when these Texans saw the bravery of this man to not retreat with his brothers and then to be shot at like a hundred men shooting at him and still he advanced, the Confederates were so inspired by this man that they put down their rifles and they passed it down the line.

23:05But this man did not deserve to die like a dog and they lifted up their hats and they all cheered out, come on you brave yank, come on! And Thomas Higgins kept coming, stumbling over the shawl and comrades, stumbling over their bodies, getting to the ditch, falling into the ditch, crawling across it, making his way up that long hill to the Confederate line. And then the Texans reached over, grabbed him by the coat and hauled him on. Thomas took his American flag and planted it in their parapets and said, you're all my prisoners now. True story. Those Texans, they were shaking his hand and patting him on his back and they were checking out his coat and they could not believe that this man had made it all that way unwounded. Thomas Higgins would be paroled a few days later in a prisoner exchange and he'd go on to fight the rest of the war with the 99th Illinois.

24:06In the 1890s, he was reading the newspaper one day and he discovered that the war department had issued the Medal of Honor to him. He did not know. He was reading it in the newspaper. It was the first time in the only time as far as I know in the history of America that the Medal of Honor would be given out because of the testimony of the enemy, one man with courage, one man who can stare the enemy down, stare death down, stare all odds down and go forward anyway. Having made the sign of the cross can inspire even the enemy to cheer you on. I'm going to leave it there. I'll put a link in the show notes for you. If you want to watch the whole movie, it's available to you right down my YouTube channel. It's called The Other Side of Fear. Facing the Father with a What a Great Story. True Story. Maybe in the after show I'll get into how I discovered that story on my journey.

25:12I was filming that documentary film. It was pretty amazing actually how it happened. We'll talk to Nick Havasso in the after show as well. But coming up after the break, Michael Matt from The Remnant is going to be here. We're going to be talking about 60 years of no-stra atatte the gift that keeps on given. It's like the cake you needed too. Oh yeah, we're the real church, but we're just not allowed to talk about it all that much. Not so intensely, like simmer down now. Can we all just get along? Is that what we are called to? And were we really looking for a profound change? Because I don't remember being asked for my opinion in the age of sinternality. More on that with Michael Matt in just two minutes from now. Don't go on here. You're a backer. Praise be to Jesus Christ. Welcome back to a Catholic take a bold synthesis of information and inspiration on your host, Joe McClain. Praise be to God. It is good to be on with you the Vatican. Put out a note on 60 years of no-stra atatte.

26:20There's a great article I'm linking to today from the remnant newspaper remnant newspaper.com Leo V14 signs new defense of religious pluralism. But what happened to Catholicism? Great article. I'm also going to link to the note itself for your reading enjoyment, but Michael Matt from The Remnant joins us today. Michael, good afternoon. Thanks for hanging out. Hey, Joe. How you doing? Hey, before we jump into this Catholic identity conference, that's coming up. Tell me about it. Yeah, yeah. Thanks for bringing that up. We're going to have I don't know five, six hundred folks in the room and another one. We're going for a hundred thousand live streamers. We're going to do live stream free this year. That's pretty impressive. Kind of an opportunity after all the events of this summer to reunite the clans. There's been a lot of confusion and division. Let's face it as the Vatican seeks to polarize. I think the counter revolution. So yeah, it's a it's a this is our 15th year. We're going to have a lot of great speakers. I think we have three bishops this year, including bishops, Schneiders. So it should be great. Couple seats left. If anybody in your audience would like to join us, I'd be fantastic.

27:21And how do they do that? You can go right to Catholic identity conference.org. And there's a sign up right there at the main homepage. James, let's put a link to that in the show notes. Catholic identity conference.org. Is that that's what you said was make sure we get that in the show notes today. One of the things on this note, Michael, is you know, there were like the church. It marked a profound change. I'm confused now. Where are we told that I can to change nothing? So did it or didn't? Is there a profound change or is everything just in keeping or a minutical continuity? I mean, I'm confused. Where do we go with that? I think the change is so obvious. So obvious is so many people that it's pretty hard to go with that company line anymore. And really, Joe, we should be asking ourselves, who are they talking to with these sort of the relaunch of Vatican II, if you will. They did the South and Cachillion first and then they did Nostra Tate and on the Dune Nostra Tate, God even sped last week.

28:24So Catholic people, 85% of them don't even bother going to mass anymore have no idea what they're talking about. So I would argue that what this actually is is solidifying and formalizing the surrender to the world. And that's why this is such a massive crisis in my opinion. They're signaling surrender. And if you know anything about the history of Nostra Tate, you'll remember that that was the demand at the time by people like Rabbi Hesh and Cardinal Baya agreed to it. But the Jewish people were saying, we no longer want to be considered targets for conversion. We want to be considered dialogue partners. That was the main thing that they were insisting upon at the change at that point, with Nostra Tate during Vatican II. Cardinal Baya and company agreed to that. And part of the conditions obviously were to admit that the Catholic Church had been really, really, at the Semitic for a couple of millennia. This is big. It's huge. And I quite agree with you. They're finally admitting the truth out loud. It's a profound fundamental change in outlook on the part of the Vatican with respect to the Catholic Church.

29:26Yeah, but there's no crisis. So there's nothing to see here. Move along, move along. No big deal. But there's just a profound change, which is again weird. Now, Nostra Tate, and then of course this new document is reminding us that it feels like a both-hand or maybe they want their kick and eat it too. Like, yes, there's only truth found in the church. Yes, this is the only way. But no. We can't really say that anymore. We're not supposed to talk about that. I mean, what used to be no salvation outside the church now that's like, you know, you're not allowed to really talk about that anymore. It now, it's all about religious freedom. All this emphasis on religious freedom. I mean, I don't want to sit here and say, I think, you know, Buddhist should be persecuted. That's not what anybody wants. I don't want that. But at the same time, there's only one church. Christ only found one church. And he said, go and make everybody. Michael, help me understand.

30:26Why do they talk out of both sides of their mouth? And in this new note. It's very sinister. And I think we all have to be very serious on how we read this accurately. And honestly, read what they're saying. They're not talking about a one-world religion, like people thought. That's actually not what they're talking about. They're talking about Catholicism being one in the great pantheon of all religions. So your truth is fine. You get to hang on to your truth. That's fine. But all of the religions are true. So basically, this is vintage free Masonry. Because if you'll remember, free Masonry, which was condemned by more folk, more successive popes than any other outside organization that attacked the church, free Masonry has always said that. Free Masonry doesn't attack the church outright. Free Masonry has always been very proud of its creed and of its philosophy, which says that all religions are good. All are accepted, all are tolerated. This is the Vatican basically bowing to the free Masonic idea that that is precisely what we're going to do. Now, where does our Lord's Divine Commission come into this? Who knows? They're not talking about that anymore. They're basically saying that we surrender. We hoist the white flag. We have re-nigged on our claim to be the one true church outside of which there is no salvation.

31:36And people can say, well, maybe that's the way it should be. Fine. But you need people need to ask the Vatican to explain the transition. What has happened? How did we go from outside the church? There is no salvation in Pope Pius XI and Pope Pius XII. The whole point now is just to dialogue, basically, odd, infinitum, forever. And we do this in order to have peace on earth. This is the spirit of a CC, of course. So they need to explain to us, especially like I always say, people who, my age, went through Catholic schools. Our parents paid a lot of money for tuition to go through Catholic schools. This is what was taught by the Catholic Church. It's been completely abandoned now. So now what? And what's next? Okay, so are we getting lost in the nuance of this? That's one of my next questions. Are we getting lost in the nuance? In other words, prosthetism is bad, right? You're being mean, you're being hard, you're forcing people, you're beating them over the head. I suppose that's the way they would look at it. But dialogue is good. Okay, but do they, by that do they mean dialogue towards the end, you know, the ends is conversion like dialogue to the point where we bring them into the one holy Catholic and apostolic church.

32:45Outside of which there's no salvation. Do they mean that? Like are we getting lost on terms, I guess is my question. Is it just the syntax that we are, you know, having this visceral reaction to, but they mean the same thing that we mean or do they mean something different? I would say absolutely not, but of course your viewers, they shouldn't take my word for it. They should go read the document themselves. They're very clear. They're very open and what they're admitting dialogue must go on forever. There's no end to dialogue. It certainly is not for the purpose of conversion. That's not the point. In fact, Joe, they say something very interesting in this document. They say that that being certain having certain to the about your religious convictions is dangerous. Now this is where we really need to wake up because I don't know if you remember when the Southern Poverty Law Center came after traditional Catholics 20 years ago, certainly your audience will remember when the FBI went after traditional Latin mass parishes in Virginia, basing that attack on the Southern Poverty Law Center. The first thing that the Southern Poverty Law Center did when they called me up 20 years ago, was they said traditional Catholics like you reject no straight atate, which means you guys are dangerous to the state. You are domestic terrorists and a holocaust is going to happen again. If what you believe should continue to come back.

34:03So this is no laughing matter. That's precisely what they think. They blame the holocaust on traditional Catholic teaching. So our audiences have to say, either I give up on our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and what he said. If you love me, keep my commandments. We either have to give up on that. Or we run the risk now of being ideologically domestic terrorists who are not going along with their own Vatican with respect to this new idea that dialogue is fine. Religious sort of to this wrong. That's called religious supremacism that is dangerous. So the Vatican right now, and again, don't take my word for it. Read the document. They are agreeing with the radical left was attacking the Catholic Church, the entire history of the Catholic Church 2000 years of the Catholic Church. They say was anti-Semitic and dangerous and violent and evil. And if you're a tradition-minded Catholic who wants to go back to that, guess what? You're a domestic terrorist. And the Vatican is saying, yeah, pretty much. Pretty much with this new document. But they're also saying, I mean, not that I agree with them, but they're also saying, Michael, come on now. We're safer in Muslim countries now that we've had Nostra Tati. 60 years of dialogue has made it safer for Catholics for Christians to live in Muslim countries. Let me just come up with a couple examples. Perhaps maybe Nigeria might be what Pakistan, anyone?

35:27Anyone? I mean, it's safer now, don't you know, Michael Matt? Of course it is. Of course it is. This is just delusion. It truly is. It's just delusion. They create a narrative. They won't break away from it. They stick to it. And meanwhile, the Muslims, for example, and the Jews, for example, are more assertive in their religious certain certitudes than ever before. In fact, look at London. Look what's happening with the Muslims in Europe, all over formerly Catholic Europe. What are they saying? Our religion is a true religion. And Christianity is not there in any sense anymore to defend against it. So even this notion that there were safer in Muslim countries, we're not safe in Christian countries anymore. You're holiness. Christian countries have become very dangerous for Christians. So this is delusion. It's just it's itself deception or it's malicious. I don't know which, but it's not true. I do want to come back to the anti-Semitism that was talked about in this new note that's coming out of the Vatican to sort of doubling down on that. I want to come back to that in a moment. But you know, I just I just wonder like, is it? Are they afraid of conflict? I mean, what do you think drove in the in the 1960s? It felt like the pendulum was swinging hard off of a hundred years of bloodshed war across Europe and the rest of the world. And you know, and I think everybody was just like, we are done.

36:47And that pendulum swung hard in the other direction. So we get the age of revolution. We get, you know, the sexual revolution. We get all of this upheaval and change. It was it just like we're so sick and tired of conflict now that we just want to go along to get along for a while. Is that what was behind those retortes and the Vatican to fathers pushing this? If you think back a little bit of the history politically in our country, post-World War II in the 1950s, you had this this era of peace. We were at the top of our game. Everything seemed great. Andy Griffiths on TV. There's no problems anywhere. And I think America got very soft at that point and began to sort of let down her own guard. Something similar happened in the Catholic Church, I believe, where as Pope John the 23rd says when he kicks off the second Vatican Council, he's against the prophets of doom. He's talking about we're throwing open the window to the world. The churches were packed out, the seminaries were packed out, the conference were packed out. And there was a certain sense of we are sort of invincible and invulnerable. And I think not vulnerable at all. I think pride set in with the Catholic Church. I think the powers of hell recognize an opportunity there because the Catholic Church just seemed like it was absent.

38:00Absolutely invincible at that point. And of course, the human element of the church is not invincible. And I think they attacked it through pride with this idea like, well, don't you tolerate us? Don't you like us? The whole Vatican too is all about this toleration business. As though the Catholic Church hadn't always tolerated sinners. Of course she had her whole point in purpose and being established by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was for the salvation of sinners. It teach governance sanctify not to hurt and hate and kill. And so this is sort of another one of the black legends that the Catholic Church finally figured out at Vatican II how to be nice to people. Simply not true. But they went along with the world saying that about the church. You people are intolerant. You hate us. And the church bent over backwards. I guess trying to answer that. And of course that's how we end up where we are today. Are we called to be nice? Is that the trick just be nice to people and it all works out in the end because I mean, I'm sure the stats prove that, right? I mean, it's not like hundreds of thousands of Catholics are leaving Germany alone in the last year or anything Michael Matt. So just be nice.

39:00Yeah, just be nice. Jesus said the world hated me at first and they're going to hate you. I come to bring a sword and not that will divide the truth is divisive. And the Catholic Church, I think the post Vatican to the human element of the Catholic Church today has completely lost sight of that. And so they're actually, I think what they're doing is not tolerating anyone. I don't believe this is charity. I think this is the epitome of being unsharedable, not to share with the world what we believe to be the truth. This is not charity. This is a violation of Christian charity being afraid or hiding the truth of Jesus Christ to me is the zenith of a violation of Christian charity. And it is being led. I'm sorry to say it's being led by the Vatican. Yeah, we're going to be right up against a break here. But the document that was just put out says Christ is the way the truth and the life. You know, and it treats dialogue as an end quote indispensable condition for coexistence with pluralistic societies. You got to love that pluralistic societies. And part of the church is evangelizing mission.

40:05And you know, it's to avoid relativism and secretism. So you're supposed to tell the world about Christ this one way. But you and you're supposed to avoid relativism and secretism. And you also give us the Aztec right. The Mayan Aztec Pachimama right. I'm sorry. Do you read your own documents, Vatican? I just it feels a little relativistic and secretistic to me. Perhaps maybe you need to go back and read Nostra Tate. We'll talk about that. Plus the anti-Semitism that's in the document, all of that and more with Michael Matt from the Remnant. We're going to link to his article as well from the Remnant newspaper. All that coming up in two minutes. Praise be to Jesus Christ. Welcome back to a Catholic take a bold synthesis of information and inspiration on your host. Joe McClain praise be to God. It is good to be on with you. Michael Matt from the Remnant newspaper is on the team at Remnant newspaper dot com plus Remnant dash TV dot com or hyphen TV dot com.

41:14I'm going to encourage you to check that out. I'm going to link to both for the show notes today. But we're talking about Nostra Tate. And part of Nostra Tate is this whole you should avoid relativism and secretism. Yet the same crowd is giving us completely the opposite embracing relativism and embracing syncretism and culture. Ration we are told is not a problem. Nothing to see here move along. Michael Matt. Welcome back. Like what do we make of that? Like it's again talking out of both sides of the mouth. Well, I think we're dealing with modernists here. Joe and modernism. So that's what they do best. They speak out of both sides of their mouth. They say one thing they mean something else and they'll always they're always very difficult to be pinned down. But I think it's very clear again the fact that they're not talking to the Catholic people. They're talking to sort of the new world order if I can use an inflammatory term. And they're saying the Catholic church is done. We are we no longer believe that outside the church is no salvation. We will not we will be compliant and whatever is coming next.

42:14And so I think that you know the the the the quid pro quo for that is but we get to say that you know we're Catholic still and Jesus is God and some of these nice things. That's that's all of course you can. That's not a problem at all. Everybody gets to say whatever they want. As long as nobody commits that crime. Joe and it's really is a crime in the world today. In the within these circles of religious supremacism. That's the only thing they worry about. You can share your ideas not for the purpose of prosolization but for the purpose of brotherhood and this brotherhood of man and getting along and peace and everything else. The main thing is religious supremacism will not be tolerated. And of course then what do you do with the divine commission go out convert all nations baptizing them in the name of the father the son and the holy ghost. What do you do with Jesus Christ Jesus Christ said nothing read this document. This document is a good thing for your viewers to do you listeners to do read the document that just came out of the Vatican from our cardinal to show and say okay where are the teachings of Jesus Christ. Where is Jesus Christ quoted accurately in this time he isn't because that's not what they're doing anymore.

43:16So again it's an extremely dangerous document not because we say so but because of what the church used to say and used to teach about this is conspicuous by its absence. We're as Catholics we're like not what do we do. It calls for a new ethic of dialogue and I'm just sitting here thinking about like the North American martyrs who are tortured tortured and still had so much zeal so much love that they would endure that torture and keep coming back and keep coming back even until they're very deaf. And it never stopped them was that is that the sense it's before no strata was that wrong of them were they were they proselytizing versus dialogue. I mean I don't know Michael but it just feels so bizarre that we're going to say the some of the greatest saints in the history of Holy Mother Church was Saint Francis who walked all the way to see the Islam. Was he proselytizing I mean like we have to throw out the cannon of saints prior to Vatican to in order to make make it make this square peg fit in around whole.

44:20Well I think we can answer that question by asking another question hope Francis went to Canada at the behest at the demand of one Justin Trudeau and apologize for the entire missionary effort of the Catholic church in Canada to bring the faith to the Canadian Indigenous people. He put a headdress on and he apologized for it now since then Joe everyone knows that the whole residential school thing was a scandal it didn't happen was fake news. Did the Vatican ever apologize for that of course not so no I think the Vatican is as to answer your question quite eager to apologize for the pre-concilier proselytism of the great missionary saints and martyrs of the past yeah I think that's fair enough it's fair enough to say that's exactly what's going on here. I want to go back to the anti-Semitism thing you talked about the Southern poverty law center you know the they're the gift that keeps on giving aren't they. So the anti-Semitism in this document seems to like by the line that you know if you say Christ is king then you're an anti-Semite.

45:21If you say Jesus is the way the truth in the life and there is no salvation outside the church then you are a hater not a lover you know unless you're of course Bishop Baron and you say Jesus is the preferred way seemingly to incinuate that there's some other way that's okay as well. And yet our our savior was very clear in the in the gospels there is no other way he is the narrow path so like. And this is something I get in trouble for I talk about it all the time but isn't it the greatest act of charity is to share the treasure found in a field isn't it the greatest act of charity is to go tell the whole world what what the Lord our God did for me and what he could do for you and for everybody else isn't the greatest act of charity is to share this truth with the souls that need to hear it most whether they be Jew or Gentile Muslim or Buddhist or anything else and yet we're being told by the powers that the Vatican that. You know simmer down now and you know just go easy just have a good chat and that's about it again I keep using this word but it feels really other world Bizarre it's surreal.

46:27Yeah and again you need to you need to be careful if you're if you're a homeschooler if you're teaching your kids about the Catholic faith and the religion to your children you've got to be very careful because what they've been saying ever since Rabbi Hesh talked to Dr. Cardinal Bayer during the the the the right before the doctor. Right before the document those two are taught to came out what they're saying is you cannot look at us as potential converts you cannot say to us that we need Jesus to be saved if you say that it is anti-Semitic and so the Vatican has basically accepted that that explains all the dialogue with the truth saying now you know you guys are fine everybody's fine even now it's just extended everybody all the way to Dali pardon everybody's safe but it's very dangerous then to say well in love I want to share my my my my my religion with my Jewish friends because I know this from like growing up in a Catholic household growing in a Catholic 16 years of Catholic school we were beautifully we were taught the beautiful stories of the Jews Mary Magdalene the women of Jerusalem weeping for our Lord Simon the Serenian all the Apostles the Blessed Mother Jesus all these all these people were Jewish personalities who found the light of Christ and followed and became followers of Jesus Christ there was never anything in Catholic school in my in my my own lifetime

47:43suggesting that you should hate the Jews are resent that you always wanted to share the good news of the gospel with them just like Jesus shared it with with with with Mary Magdalene you know so so it's really it's really a false narrative it's a black legend but it's much more it has teeth it's much more dangerous than that for us because if you don't agree with their definition that the Catholic church for 1,965 years was anti-Semitic you are a dangerous anti-Semite and you probably are an enemy of the people you're a your the best you terrorist do you think the pendulum is going to swing back hard in the other direction here at some point in the church are we going to find our way towards greater fidelity orthodoxy tradition well that happened or or are we riding this train all the way to the end no I think we will I mean for example the idea that no that the idea of the Christians were perfect and never there was never any pogoms there was never any problem with any of course there was that's human nature being what it is people will always get along and so I think that people now seeing like for example what's happening in Galat and Gaza in Palestine with this time with the Jews being the aggressors against the Palestinians well things do people do bad things and all members of all religions down through history have been guilty of doing crazy things at some point or another so that the Catholic church has been human was a human element and stumbled here and there of course that's true but I think people are really tired answer your question

49:04they're tired of the black legend they're tired of the self deprecating Vatican to Catholicism which as we suck were terrible were evil were anti-Semitic we've never even learned how to listen or tolerate the other until 2005 or something you know what I mean like that's a really horrible church that we belong to everybody knows it's not true and so yeah I think there's a backlash happening right now or people are pushing back saying no this is not true Catholicism build the greatest civilization in the history of the world all the cathedrals of Europe the greatest philosophy the greatest arts Catholicism will that out of love for something was it just for God mostly it was for God but also for humanity to share the message of Jesus Christ with the world so it's so sad that dumb down Catholics who have been dumb down through no fault of their own are expected to hate all that because they don't understand what it was so I think the more we can spread the truth unrevised history about the what the Catholic Church actually did the more the sense of Catholic Pride Catholic identity's centrist Catholic is will be restored and that's in my opinion I've got ultimately will work through his people the restores church

50:09well said Michael Matt always grateful to have you on the team thank you for doing it today check them out remnant newspaper dot com remnant newspaper dot com God bless you Michael also the Catholic identity conference Catholic identity conference dot org get your tickets go hang out I wish I could make it this year next year next year I'm going to be hanging out I can't wait for it to praise be to God but also check out remnant hyphen tv dot com will put links to all of that we're going to the after show and take your commentary next God loved you what is happening praise be to God thanks for hanging out everybody we're I'm going to be reading your commentary today as we go along here but also our good friend Nick Kovasos is on the team today I was going to say from the traditional Thomas podcast but let's be honest he's not been podcasting in months so it's just it's a YouTube channel good Nick good afternoon thanks for hanging out with us yeah thanks for having me on should be fun it should be fun praise be to God I played a little civil war thing

51:13earlier on the show up miss jah that was fun play I did a played the clip for my documentary film where I tell the story of sergeant Thomas Higgins the battle that was just an amazing story and hopefully everybody got a lot out of that you can check out the link in the show notes for the full film on that but that is definitely one of the things that has been taking the time of Nick Kovasos sucking away his bandwidth rather than posting podcasts over through traditional Thomas he is very focused on the american the war but twix the states the war of northern aggression as we lovingly say but what let's start with that what why haven't you been posting I know you put out a video on your channel today and I'm glad you did but what what has been pulling you away from youtube social media and all the rest yeah I talked about it in the video in the sense this short version of it essentially is that about september october so of last year I kind of started to go through somewhat of a I don't know if existential crisis is the right term but maybe part of it is in the sense that I was examining kind of the

52:19trad world in which I was in as well as my own personal spiritual life and I was just seeing a lot of nastiness and you know I mean you you know this way better than I do job because you've been covering church politics much longer than I but when you cover church politics for a certain period of time eventually you just get absolutely exhausted and it does take certain like temperaments to be able to like see that type of evil day and day out for such a lot period of time before literally just drives you crazy and so for me it was seeing those things but because I do enjoy reading I do enjoy study I was seeing some of these issues with the papacy come forward as a result of this and you know I've been aware of some of these issues in the sense that for instance one of the things that I've talked about previously is the whole nature of the fact that when you look at the history of the papacy you know it's easy to fall into kind of a modern Catholic answers type of response to Protestants and say well you know the only time the popes and fallables whenever he is making these declarations you know these

53:28infallible declarations under these types of circumstances etc but then once you start really digging down into deeper systematic theology you really find that while that's strictly true pretty much outside of that there is a certain tendency amongst theologians to really even traditional theologians to say really we do have to accept pretty much everything that the Pope says on a doctoral level with at least the intellectual and religious submission of mind and will. And that's the first part traditional well what's interesting is that you know so this is a traditional teaching and according to again pretty much every old school theologian they will all tell about their good example of that Bellerman but pretty much I mean even although theologians up to Vatican to and you know they will easily teach that the Pope's teaching even outside of that exca the interest statement that even when we're supposed to receive it with that type of religious submission that's it's pretty rare that he would err on anything and if he is to make an error really when it comes down to it we're supposed to if we do have a problem with it be quiet about it and then approach a religious superior of in this context as late people this would be like a parish priest or something and then we can respectfully bring our objections there and so you know see that when you also go ahead the way I the way I characterize this is um

54:56it's it's it's the power that God has given to fathers is mighty and terrible honestly as a dad the my ability to create discord in my home you know my ability to unify to bring together or to destroy is mighty and terrible that power is is scary to be honest now imagine that power times a thousand if you're the bicker of Christ on earth and something I talked about a couple of weeks ago when I was refuting West Hoff's fulacious arguments about the the primacy of Peter and in all of this you know we quoted from Isaiah and we looked at the fact that the prototypes the Old Testament's were in fact supposed to be fathers to the inhabitants fathers to the people of the kingdom that is part of their role part of their job is to be a father it's very explicit in the Old

55:57Testament and to think about that and go God you is God gives these mortal fallible men these concupacent self-centered men including myself this power that is scary I mean there's a good this is probably why I'm not God because the firework God I'd never do that like that's the worst thing ever like you know to me like it just God knows what he's doing but it's hard for us to understand that like we just can't see his ways are so far above our ways we just can't see the reasoning why he would allow Judas is why he would allow wolves and sheep's clothing why he would allow these things to happen but yet he has his reasons it brings about a great of good but we just can't see it can we know we can't and you know it's the the classic problem of evil and you're interestingly your answer is similar to the many different answers that I talked about in this last episode of mine that I've received some of it's been the problem of evil that I've roasted with some of it's more of an epistemological uncertainty in the

57:00sense that the Catholic Church going back to what I was talking about a second ago you know it has these grand teachings about the papacy it also has grand teachings about herself as the mystical body of Christ one of which is in defectability and in a certain sense in fallibility when it comes to disciplines inside of the church and really when it comes down to even just the Pope Francis era really most of the debates and stuff that you and I have covered and people have debated about whether it's a Morse latitia, Fiducius, Uplicons, Tradition of the Stodos etc all of these things for the most part while they do have doctrinal characters a lot of them are disciplines right they're they're practical functions of how church life is supposed to be in many regards but the problem is that even traditional theologians will say that yeah like because these come from the Church of Christ if they're harmful to souls that's antithetical to the very mission of Christ and so that can't happen so a point is I look at these claims I look at what's going on and I am sitting here kind of

58:02wrestling with this back and forth now there's a billion ways that people have tried to solve this right there's the set a's who have come to me before and they're like well you're just kind of getting to the logical conclusion of where traditional Catholic theology goes and so therefore because the modern church doesn't fit this bill it's not the true church right there's there's that argument that I think I understand it in the sense of its logical leaps but I don't subscribe to it because I think it actually opens up a bigger can of worms such as okay if there is no pope and if there hasn't been a pope for you know longer than you and I have been alive well where do we get one we can't go to Walmart just order one right we can't just go to the Pope store and get a new one probably can they're going to drone deliver them to my backyard if I just you know hit the button some of the arguments I've or response that I should say I've received are absolutely insane in the sense that I've literally heard people say well like God will just illuminate the light and it will shine upon the person you'll hear a thundering voice from heaven that says this is the pope and I'm just like I mean maybe it will happen probably not no problem

59:08it's never going to happen that way sorry he doesn't work that way yeah free will it does not have forced us to make good decisions he's not going to force us to choose the right guy for the job he's going to he's never going to force us to do something that we are not willing to do of out of love and sacrifice and we and it also causes we make the bed we lie in it we do and it causes a lot of other problems because when you go back to the very ultra-mountain council of Vatican one right you find that one of the teachings out of that council was the fact that the church proclaimed that the papacy will endure to the end of time which I'm like yeah clearly that doesn't work but plain reading if there's this 60 70 year gap and two it also at the same time claims that the and this is another area where I've wrestled with that the teaching of Peter right in reference to the pope will never fail and if you go back and read theologians again they're talking about this kind of indefactability about stuff so for me

1:00:14where I wrestle with it the setting of answer doesn't make any sense I've heard great people that you and I are admired Dr. Peter Quasnowski is one of them who will try to say well you know he's told me before in a public forum like he he thinks that pretty much all of the neos galastics before Vatican II had to a high view of the pope and I'm like I don't know if I feel comfortable just kind of like shivering all of these like guys who are far more talented than all three of us can bind wow wow did you see that James he just like this totally like steam rolled me there like yes I mean Joe is an idiot but nonetheless not teasing I'm only teasing his problem no it was a compliment but here's what I say though here's what I've been saying you know as much as I like to complain and and get and I righteous indignation and I'm as guilty about that as anybody but I mean I get triggered by a lot of this stuff and I and I rant and rave about it all the time but I often also say to people don't waste your time in the news cycle don't waste your

1:01:17time with the 24 seven doom pilling it's just not healthy exactly it's not it's not good for your soul it's not good for your psyche your emotions at the end of the day and I've I said this consistently at the end of the day if you live in a state of grace pursue virtue and are obedient to your state in life it won't matter what happens at the Vatican it won't happen what happens at the White House or any place in between you can't control what comes out of the Vatican or the hierarchy you can't even control comes out of the chanceory downtown it's your diocese let alone your parish priest you can only control yourself live in a state of grace pursue virtue you'll be into your state in that is all that God is asking of us and then of course part of that is our mission of to to proclaim the good that you're in the beautiful to the whole white world which is hard when you're also having to deal with yeah but your Pope you know worshiped a little pochimama idol in the Vatican gardens like oh yes there was that that's true and then there's all the other

1:02:17you know predator you know crap that you guys paid out billions of dollars in settlements too yes that's true like that's where it gets really difficult I think you have to you get into explainer mode when you're trying to pro you know proclaim the gospel and you have to sort of explain all this other stuff there's a Judas and every era there's always going to be weeds among the wheat but it's easier said than done it's it's nice on paper but in reality it's it's far more complicated wouldn't you say oh it's far more complicated and that's why in the video I talk about how these questions that I've been putting forward there's still questions I'm wrestling with because for me I always have to be in a certain sense bound to my conscience right like if stuff is fishy and a and b you're not meshing together you know there has to be some solution or there's not a solution and there's there's a problem but at the same time you can only handle so much and sometimes you're only tasked with handling what's actually in

1:03:21front of you and so I talk about in the video how when I look at a lot of the issues inside of the Catholic Church I realized that some of the issues while warranted that we've talked about some of the issues aren't even so much issues as opposed to my own personal sin in failing and the fact is that I need to grow myself and so I talk about that in the sense that virtue pursuant of virtue pursuing of the interior life has to be the main focus that a person employs himself and engages himself in so it's interesting you know I'm in an interesting season where I've gotten rid of a lot of the old videos that I've recorded in the sense that I either a don't believe that they came from a good place or b and I no longer hold some of the positions that I once espoused but at the same time you know I'm still learning I'm still struggling I'm still wrestling with these things and I'll always say you know it's always encouraging the people who do come alongside and they talk about their own similar experiences right there's so many people who especially over the last pontificate right really wrestled with these questions um and then of course you can go to my comment section you'll always find uh interesting

1:04:27uh I guess anti anti-covoss those comments in the sense that uh you know the leaders are coming to hate to think the set A is interestingly think I've abandoned the Catholic faith and it's like well I never was a set A and I never went to a set A chapel or espoused to set A beliefs so I guess I was never Catholic in their eyes but somehow I've also abandoned Catholicism simultaneously I don't know how that works I see this is a new trend right now because you're you're getting you're getting you know pushback or you know criticism or whatever I of course get it to but um Bishop Strickland has been getting a lot of it because Bishop Strickland I talked to him yesterday about this because Bishop Strickland has made the determined he he feels very called right now he's on fire right now to teach the faith you know just let's go teach the faith like it's less about the drama it's less about the scandals that he does believe if there is a crisis in the church he believes that but let instead of just dwelling on the crisis

1:05:28let's actually teach the faith because most Catholics don't know the faith and that's kind of been his focus so he's like listen we're gonna go through all of the Vatican's documents again and we're gonna not gonna pull any punches we're gonna point out what what is good in them and we're gonna point out what is bad in them that's been his position but because he said he was gonna do that he's gotten all kinds of pushback people have you know basically doing the same thing that did you and claiming that Bishop Strickland has lost the plot like what are you talking about like it just bizarre they're doing the same thing to uh to Taylor Marshall too because I didn't watch the video Taylor Taylor put out a video something about Pope Francis praying for him or asking for Pope Francis is the intercession Bishop Strickland and I went to the tomb of Pope Francis we prayed for his repose we let our entire tour group to pray for the repose of Pope Francis now he and I bring it up to say now everybody's you know piling on Taylor Marshall because he might

1:06:32have suggested this again I didn't actually see Taylor's comments I don't know what he actually said but I'm just for the sake of the Congress to make the point here's the rub if Pope Francis received an apostolic pardon which John Henry Weston from life site news told me personally that he did based on his sources he goes to heaven not hell no matter how many crimes and sins he committed during his life on the chair or otherwise that is a grace from God has nothing to do with Pope Francis and if that's like are we denying that now like do you sure I'm saying like if you're telling me that grave sinners could receive God's mercy in grace in their last moments and God you is there's a chance for me Nick Kovasus like if it's like if he's got a chance then I've got a chance like it feels like that should be hopeful but instead because of our deep desire for justice now our way not long enduring patience God's way we just I think we throw the baby out of

1:07:39the bathwater I didn't like Pope Francis I railed on him for for year after year after year on my radio show day in and day out but nonetheless if he's in heaven who am I yeah I mean it's one of those situations where it's like at the end of the day you know none of us can get inside of his conscience right none of us can get inside of his soul we can only judge him by the fruits that he bore so to speak and in the context of particularly the you know the good bishop as well as very simple answers you know because we're in a new pontificate it we I've said this before right it's nothing revolutionary but it's just I think a factual statement being true we're not in an era anymore where it's fashionable or you can make a market to criticize the Pope and I don't have a problem with that because again my my livelihood my goals my viewpoints etc don't revolve in church politics anymore I'm in the world of history but that being the case right you know back in the Francis days there was a whole slew of us who

1:08:42were all criticizing what we saw going on and because Pope Louis is much more soft spoken right he's not going out there most of the time right shooting shooting his mouth off he's not oftentimes doing things that are visibly scandalous it's much harder to criticize and I think that that's one of the things I brought up in my video earlier is that we have this whole new wave of converts coming into the church who again like genuinely do think that the Catholic Church today is like some type of quasi crusading army what in reality as I've talked about it like for a lot of people it's really genuinely just community centers with some religion thrown into it now I've done saying that to bash people I'm just saying when you look at again the studies and you find that most Catholics don't agree with basic niceing Christianity and biblical sexual ethics it's like well then de facto rationally what is it it's a community center because people do want to come together for community and there is a religious veneer that will try to settle our anxieties fight

1:09:45our depression bring us together to you know build up some good social temporal circles but outside of that you know that's essentially it and so I don't know it's a weird world for sure I've still got my questions answered but you know it is it is what it is we'll figure it out you'll get there hey let me get some shout outs here why are you guys wanting to talk about Magigare today not the subject matter today why are you guys trying to change the subject to talk about Magigare you know how I feel about that hey good afternoon Diane thanks for hanging out Janice so glad to have you on the team praise be to God thanks for being a member of the channel we have the recipes Huskers is back praise be to guys see Ronnie there good afternoon to you Jane Steve from sunny Massachusetts Paul are firm from sunny Buffalo praise be to God glad to see you here thanks for hanging out with us today John P is here the reason why so many people believe that just being a good person will get them to heaven is stuff like nostra atate yeah we talked

1:10:50about that with Michael Matt for sure what was the last time you've been to a funeral a funeral where they preach that the person was in hell like it's too bad they were so bad they must be in hell what when's the last funeral you've ever been to where that was the the message you know never ever ever ever everybody goes to heaven when you go to a funeral and they're in lies part of the challenge that we're dealing with it's like it's one on one hand you don't want to talk ill of the dead that's that's not helpful or or kind to the ones that are having to you know mourn their loss but on the other on the other side we live in a pluralistic society where everything seems equal these days and that's also leading people to greater confusion and not not helpful speaking of greater confusion all right let's do a lightning round of I need I need a yeah I don't have any great game show buttons I need game show buttons James we should do a lightning round on the Civil War you guys ready to talk Civil War not magic or day we're talking Civil War today because we have we have one of the greatest war betwixt the states scholars in the country today

1:11:56with us Nick Kavasos Nick true false Abraham Lincoln greatest president of the States I'd say it's up for your opinion stop it no no James get the cattle brought out if he tries to duck the question again like some politician you're to cattle prod him okay that's the rules of this game greatest president it's the all of American history true or false well I guess because our current president says he's the greatest it has to be false right so now it is what it is he are you running for office what are we doing come on take up stand take a position here what are your thoughts if Abraham Lincoln my personal opinion is he wasn't the greatest president thank you I say he it's it's debatable it's only in the sense that what is history itself history is memory right it's how people remember it of course there is facts about it but you know because of that nature right you're gonna have people who will come from all different perspectives on it

1:12:59for me personally as someone who genuinely does try to teach in a very unbiased fashion I do find him fairly complicated fascinating but complicated but one who for sure at least in my opinion is definitely the first modern president in the sense that the one who really starts to push big government policies that we do see more or less birth in our own era so fast figure a Hamiltonian on steroids Abraham Lincoln was you could definitely say so yeah yeah I mean he consolidated power and it was never given back this country was never the same after the war but Twix the states is that fair never the same if we want to even just talk about Lincoln's brief power it's just like the some of the stuff I've been talking about recently my own chronology over on my Facebook pages we have the you know refusal of delivering certain newspapers that are considered to be into the article to the Lincoln war effort journalist and jail journalist that we're putting jail

1:14:00I just covered recently September the 11th through the 17th you see about 35% or so of the Maryland legislature is arrested because fear that the state might try to secede you have warrantless arrests you do have also at the same time this is not so much Lincoln but it's more or less the atmosphere in the north which is newspapers being attacked themselves or sometimes brought to court you do see some newspaper editors tart and feathered so there's a lot of anti-peace sentiments particularly in 61 62 63 64 definitely gets much much bigger in the north the criticism of Lincoln those are definitely the controversial things that people have to realize I mean even just one other thing you know he you know exiles he sends into exile a senator that's controversial that criticizes him a lot he ends up going into exile with the Confederacy in 1863 so you know people can people can justify it in the sense that they're like yes this was necessary to fight

1:15:00back against rebellion people can also equally say this was a far great overreach of civil liberties so again that's why I say it kind of depends on your opinion on it my personal opinion is uh yeah I'm a small government guy so I'm not necessarily the world's biggest fan of that stuff come on Huskers you know you want to talk about Civil War it's the best topic ever so you need to stick around so you can we can answer all of your Civil War questions hey we have the recipes again welcome back uh Caleb the mechanic a see you there praise be to God thanks for hanging out with us this afternoon um I saw who was it somebody asked a question about the battle flags what happened to that question I just saw Edgar Edgar when the south surrendered at Appomattox which by the way the first artillery shot of the war and the surrender happened on the property of the same man a McLean it was his farm that got shoes his kitchen that got shot at the beginning of the war at the battle of uh of Manassas and then it was in his living room where Robert Elise surrendered

1:16:06in Appomattox so the beginning and the end of the war it wasn't McLean I'm just pointing it out so battle flags what was surrendered lead did not surrender for the Confederacy did he he only surrendered for his army didn't he yes that's correct the army of northern Virginia formally see formally surrenders there in April of 65 to grant if he's talking about the famous battle flag story there is quite a bit a lot of the battle flags ended up of course being folded up there's some cool paintings about this that have been done and they were buried in unknown locations so even to this day a lot of us don't know where they were buried and probably you know they've deteriorated by by now unfortunately in regards to your claim about the McLean's that's I would say maybe true there's a bit of a bit of a no I've talked to the ranger who was working the Appomattox courthouse that lady she she get in fact she gave me the book I asked her hey what book do you guys use and she showed it to me and I went out and bought my own copy

1:17:08which is downstairs it's not a pure I'd hold it up as proof but so I have the actual documented evidence don't even try that well I'm surprised she didn't say well you were there so you should know right I was when I came to I took my kids to my kids and the journey as hard as I raise you about as hard as I raise you about being old that video that you played at the beginning of your show today of your the clip from your documentary I was like Joe looks like he's I don't know like 28 29 or something like that he looks ridiculously young so clearly the Pope Francis era had a massive effect on you it did warm you out I lost 200 pounds along the way too uh Jeff Lewis good afternoon to you praise be to God thanks for hanging out with us today uh who approves succession of West Virginia from Virginia but not the but not the Southern states does that Lincoln that did that we have the rest species I have a Confederate flag in my weight room don't tell anyone I promise

1:18:09not to say a word not even to say a word greatest Southern general to become a Catholic after the war also got himself into a lot of trouble amongst Confederates for his criticisms of Gettysburg the second most important battle of the war but Twix the states um there are a few important Catholics in the American Civil War saga can you take us through a couple of them yeah the first one off the time my head of course is going to be the major Confederate commander that you'll be exposed to in the beginning of the war PGT bull regard he comes from Louisiana comes from a Creole background he's a Catholic of course right being originated in Louisiana West Point graduate interestingly enough he is the student of Major Robert Anderson who is the main union commander there at Fort Sumter and so you have student a teacher facing off against one another there in the Bay which is a fascinating tale he of course goes on to fight as one of the main Confederate generals there at the battle of First Manassas he ultimately doesn't get a lot of the shine if you will because his main of the

1:19:14ploy of action was on the right flank and all the action that ended up taking place was actually on the Confederate left so fairly interesting individual he of course goes out in battles grant out west and then you know there is um talking upon maybe about urban legends again you know there is a lot of debate about did Jefferson Davis ever you know secretly convert to Catholicism we do have evidence to suggest that of course he didn't however he had great respect for Catholicism mostly due to the fact that he was exposed to a lot of Dominican nuns as his teachers and exactly and so he was exposed to it either there's also the truth that while I can't say the Vatican formally recognized the Confederacy it definitely had a lot of sympathies with the Confederacy of course famously Pope Pius IX creates or if you will puts together crown of thorns and sends into Jefferson Davis after the war in the period of whenever he's in jail I think also a scapular memory is correct who does so interesting there's this capyla interesting stuff there yeah interesting stuff for sure

1:20:18well yeah most of the famous though civil war Catholics a lot of them are going to be more so in the north because the north it's about I think 10% or so of the union army ends up being immigrant born it might be more than that actually an off the top my head but the reason for that is that in the 1850s there was a ton of mass migration into New England especially places like from Ireland especially and because of that of course a really strong Catholic presence emerged the north ends up of course employing a lot of these individuals because a lot of these individuals are desiring just good paychecks truly yeah and so they of course go out and fight the south and the south is much more old America in the sense that it is the collective makeup of essentially the southern 13 colonies and so you're going to have some Catholic influence in Maryland of course but even by then it's really waned a lot of it of course is going to be people would think perhaps due to the Carolina nature that it would be Anglican a lot of it's actually going to be Methodist and Baptist due to the second great awakening taking place in the 1830s and then also

1:21:24miniature awakenings that took place during the period of the war which don't get talked about quite a bit fascinating bit of history yeah I mean I see some slavery coming up here in the chat and that's important to us to see John Brown didn't John Brown kick it off that I think that's very fascinating to the John Brown story so I want to get to both of these things because I think there's a misnomer a myth if you will that the southern Confederacy just absolutely was just madly in love with the idea of enslaving people and I and I would suggest to you that it was never that straightforward I mean yes big plantation owners loved their slaves and they were the ones that lobbied the most most southerners didn't have slaves couldn't afford them and weren't fighting to to protect slavery it was all about a power struggle between the north and the south the south the bargaining chip was cheap labor and the agrarian lifestyle the you know the ability to produce out of the ground the resources the north was the industrial might and it was just a tug of war

1:22:27and they were leveraging whatever they had to fight that battle and so slavery got caught in the middle so I think a lot of people mistaking I don't want to know if you agree to this neck of osmosis I think a lot of people the misnomer the mistake is thinking that the the Confederacy the south was all about slavery they just absolutely had to have slaves and there was like they I don't think they that's how they approached it what do you say yeah I this is how I always frame an old frame and really since sink to a the civil war has a numerous amount of causes roughly about seven or eight causes all of them in some form or fashion are going to be rooted in essential cause which was the constitutional crisis debate between Jefferson and Hamilton out of that debate flows all the other issues by the time of the 1840s leading into the end or the beginning of the 60s I should say slavery becomes an issue in a very qualified sense so a couple qualifications number one in the context of the war it's not the sole issue of the war nor is it the central but it's the most

1:23:31emotionally charged and moral issue how it becomes an issue is this you talked about a paragraph as westward expansion is continuing to go the constitutional question arose which is who determines whether or not this particular territory or that territory is slave or free is it the federal government or is it the sovereign states again notice how that debate pretty much presupposes your political views in regards to how the constitution was formulated etc so again the constitutional in the south the argument put forward by let's just say the very small extreme minority crowd that oftentimes was again influential plantation owners the fire eaters as they were called they saw slavery oftentimes is a good thing but again they made the argument that westward expansion should include the ability to allow slavery because actually believe or not it's in the constitution this is before the constitutions amended at this time slavery is granted in the constitution and also at the same time because they want to continue that this more or less southern

1:24:35paragraph the north was against slavery though not because and this is where a big error comes not because the north was 21st century modern egalitarian racial view dispel that from your mind the north rather was pushing for the free soil movement which essentially asserted that we want the western territories to be free for white workers only we don't want blacks in the territory because one america is a white nation and two because if blacks are in our society they'll compete for us with our jobs right this is explicit you can go and read all the political debates from the republican party this the the modern myth that a lot of republicans say today when they say well the republican party was founded to abolish slavery it's absolute nonsense it was founded to prevent slavery from expanding westward so that white workers could be in the territories alone right and when we can put this word some of these this is de Lorenzo's point in the real case the real Abraham Lincoln de Lorenzo we talked about this briefly yesterday the after show

1:25:36great book I really encourage everybody to go read it this is part of the point that he makes is Abraham Lincoln didn't love these slaves he wasn't like trying to like be the the crusader to free slaves he only touched the issue when he had when he needed it for a political and military expediency in fact he was toying with the idea of of removing all these African slaves to Haiti or some other colony place to get rid of them and get them out of the country so I mean a emancipation proclamation became a a strategy in the war effort not necessarily his care and compassion for the for the plight of these people that were being treated like cattle I mean I think it's one of the myths that they're just teaching in school that the saintly Abraham Lincoln love the slaves no he didn't did he he had a complex view so his view is pretty standard and so Lincoln's initial view on a racial perspective is essentially what the common view of the era was which was there's differences between whites and blacks whites are superior

1:26:39etc that's the common view of the day again while we don't believe that today right I don't think we should also fall into a presentism and just say everybody was barbaric therefore regardless the Lincoln he is a pulpit right he's a Republican party politician before that he's heavily influenced by the wigs and so they're aware that in order to create this industrial north when we want this to expand out west we recognize our constituents don't want to have these competing issues when it comes to the ex slaves this is one of the reasons why also if you guys go and look many of the northern states had banned blacks from entering into the state or prevented them from becoming citizens of the state unless they were to pay heavy fines ironically a lot of those states forbidden blacks from even getting jobs and things like that regardless though Lincoln advocated for gradual emancipation which was the majority view both in the north and in the south and eventually taking these slaves and shipping them over mostly back to Africa in places like Liberia that's one of the reasons Liberia ends up being made up as an official US colony by the time of 63 however

1:27:44Lincoln uses the issue of slavery as a moral issue to really prevent the foreign governments from recognizing the southern Confederacy it should be noted probably no one here has heard of the name John Charles Faremont before in 61 John Charles Faremont is the major student commander of the western department he ends up getting canned by Lincoln and one of the reasons why is that Faremont put out on August 29th and 30th unauthorized emancipation proclamation and a essentially a martial law plan this is 61 mind Lincoln ends up having a long discourse between Faremont and himself back and forth trying to get Faremont to change because he's worried that actually abolishing slavery if you will in this certain limited context of Confederate soldiers would actually be alienating to many individuals in border states so ultimately ends up canning Faremont for this and for other reasons as well but ironically Lincoln's argument is this goes beyond what federal law allows

1:28:45military law but then Lincoln adopts that same position broadly speaking toward the south in 63 and then in 64 by the time that you have the Republican Party and Lincoln adopt the 13th Amendment it's very clear if you go and you read their acceptance speeches one of the reasons why they accept this is because they recognize that if the south was to come back into the union which is their ultimate goal right it's the preservation of the union then the south could challenge the emancipation proclamation of the context of the supreme court and they would probably get thrown out because again it's essentially just an executive order and we do know that in the constitution it protects institutional slavery at this time so we get thrown out and so therefore they put for this as a mechanism to prevent the south from getting any type of recognition and then also bringing them back into the union and more or less closing up this debate even then Lincoln does have a certain evolution of thought he does go from the perspective of wanting pretty much all of the ex slaves to return to Africa to the position of voluntary return and this laughs all the way up

1:29:48until literally the days before he was assassinated tragically so point is it's a complex story it's really bad today when people just not to use a pump like white everything yeah it's just tragic yes don't go anywhere Beth you love this history talk what do you mean history is the greatest subject ever and I'm not saying that simply because on the 10th grade history student of the year at Judson you know it's more than that it's because I'm also the greatest historian ever to live because I live through all those errors that's why but Beth hang out we want we want you to hang out with this all right you got to go got love you no Mac I'm not going to go back to talking about magic or a we've that ship is sailed a honey bee thanks for hanging out thanks for being a member of the channel says the Irish who couldn't buy their way out ended up being victims of southern guns it's so true southern and northern guns really and this is something I've talked about often you know dagger John the archbishop in New York a Hughes I think his name was he got he got shipped out by the

1:30:48north the north the government in the north shipped them overseas to recruit Irishmen and that's what he did and I think somebody even pointed it out Sergio maybe Sergio says Lincoln sent agents to Europe $300 bonus to join Union Army opias the ninth opposed opposed this well it was very interesting because dagger John recruited a lot of Irish for for the army and for the war effort and then you know pointing it out earlier that you got Jefferson Davis wearing a scapular has correspondence with the Pope at the Vatican Lincoln's not corresponding with the Pope at the Vatican but you know who Lincoln does correspond with like you know Karl Marx and the insanities of of what will be the future revolution to rack the church and rack the world so I mean we just live in these weird times where we've we've painted these contrasting images of north saintly south evil but it's actually far more complicated and nuanced than that one of the things I learned when

1:31:51I was doing filming my movie the other side of fear which was a film about the father wound not about history not about the Civil War but I I made the plan in pre-production I decided where I was going to travel to who I was going to interview what I was going to the story I was going to tell and then I looked at the map and I noticed that I was driving straight through Vicksburg, Mississippi and I'm like oh that's a battlefield and then I just started praying I'm like Lord is there a story at that battlefield that I should tell and I started to dig into to the story and I'm like you know I see you start you do the easy stuff I bought a book of all of the metal of honor winners and there is a great story that I almost told in that film about the four lorne hope and this was a union story where when general grants was trying to find his way through the second

1:32:52big attempt to attack the Confederate lines which they were superior in every way to general grants lines and he knew it was going to be a slaughter he had already lost like I think it was like over a thousand men on the first attempt when he shows up in May he waits two days tries again well on the second attempt he recruits I think it was about 300 if I remember correctly it was about 300 men who volunteered that when they would attack they would run as fast as they possibly could all the way up to the ditches that were like so you have like this giant berm and on the top of the berm are wooden you know wooden barriers where they would the Confederates would sit behind and be able to shoot out from so you got earth and and wood works there and it's thick it's massive and very formidable and then at the bottom of that burn they actually dug a ditch like several

1:33:52feet deep and six feet wide and their goal of the four lorne hope these volunteers was to run as fast as they could up to this ditch while being shot at build a bridge while being shot at so the regiments can cross over the ditch and get up the hill as fast as possible that was the mission of the four lorne hope and I like I said it was like 300 volunteers and among those volunteers there was a couple of Catholics and I almost told their story until I found Higgins and the way I found the Catholic stories was I bought a book on all of the Medal of Honor winners from Civil War and then I decided to also go look for a book and it was published in the 1890s about the chaplaincy so Notre Dame produced the vast majority of the chaplains for the war effort and so I discovered that there was one Catholic priest assigned to General Grant's Army of the Tennessee Valley in 1862

1:34:56in 1863 in his campaign and so once I discovered that then I was able to discover where the Catholics were I found the 99 Delanoi and then Thomas Higgins and then I pulled on his thread for a while and so that was so when I went to Vicksburg I went right to where Vicks where Thomas Higgins charged the line and got the film there almost got in trouble for filming there that was a fun story I forget why I went down that started to bring all this up other than just oh now I remember so when I was doing that like that story almost side tracked my or derailed my entire film which again was about the father moon nothing to do with history or Civil War but I got so enthralled with studying the Civil War again that I I like stopped production and pre-production efforts and simply focused on the American Civil War for a long time I was so interested in reading more and more and more and going through like you know rebel yell and and Robert E. Lee biographies and all this stuff and

1:36:02and what I discovered was that there were these like chapters so to speak so all throughout the south there were these you know local groups where they would send their sons they would you know get they would get volunteers and they'd send them to the north to fight for the north and then there was the same thing happening in the north they were getting men and they were sending them south to fight for the south so again just incredibly complicated never that clear never that straightforward a brew city welcome thanks for hanging out appreciate you says Joe yes the typical modern northern depicts the end of bellum south as all evil but likewise modern southern people portrays the north of that same period plus reconstruction era as all evil okay fair enough point brew city fair enough but it's also true that the north is evil but otherwise yeah I see your point drew black says immediately disposed financial collapse what you must be talking about

1:37:03oh hey Helen I gotta go backwards here his slaves were property owners were immediately deposed financial collapse I'm not 100% following your line of thought there drew I mean Drew why don't you can you give me a whole sentence so I can see it all in one then I I want to give it it's Duke do attention in glass says until the 1950s we southern Italians were classified as colored people not white weren't you called wastes all the time wet backs wasps renell renell says so true Joe are you paying attention to this James you writing this down so true Joe from your lips to God's ears renell from your lips to God's ears sees like yeah what people ask James what is what do you do exactly he's like yeah I just listen to an old guy stroke as he go all day all day that's all that happens yes yes um let's go back to John Brown the great abolitionist John Brown the saint the hero John Brown did he kick off

1:38:12the war well you know even before I answered your question did you see by the way John Brown's been in kind of the news recently a bunch of people yeah a bunch of people in hands is for the Jay Hawk college football game I was they were all holding up a big banner of John Brown as they were fighting I I think going up against Missouri state or something like that which is interesting because again what is the term Jay hawker mean Jay hawker is a nickname term for the free soilers and Kansas so interesting thing there but yeah John Brown fascinating uh characters you know the demon from the south from the southern perspective the saint from the northern perspective but he was part of what's called the radical abolitionist which essentially saw the majority of the abolitionist which by the way all the abolitionist at that time probably represented about 0.1% of the population so super small but he was on the radical and the basically saw the moderates as you know you're not doing enough we actually need to do physical acts of aggression against slaveholders in order to free them and so he's principally known for

1:39:15two events the first one of course is the famous bloody Kansas incident where he and his sons took a bunch of savers and in the middle of the night hacked up a bunch of slave owners in their homes so that's probably not the way you want to wake up right being stabbed to death and then of course his second and this would be his most famous thing is John Brown's infamous rate of 1859 where his goal is essentially he and this band of both his sons and some associates etc their goal is to go down to harpers fairy in modern day west Virginia sees the weapons that are there along with a bunch of other weapons and various other locations and pikes and stuff armed the slaves and have one large net turner style rebellion of net turner was did not work out if people don't know net turner was a slave who rebelled in the 1830s in Virginia and basically he and his group of like 20 or 30 slaves went door to door and just started killing pretty much any white person period whether or not they own slaves this was the desire at least in the slave context the slaveholder context by john brown ultimately it failed because various communication breakdowns he ultimately

1:40:19ends up getting surrounded in that famous arsenal by none other than then Colonel Robert E Lee and captain jeb steward and they lead the marines in there and eventually they of course wreck down the wall and they arrest him he later on of course is tried and he of course proclaims that he's you know innocent of the falsehoods of what they claim but guilty of the truth and he of course is put to death now that incident strikes a massive blow toward the south not because in the south everyone's you know raw raw slavery is amazing but because understandably so so many southerners are fearful that if slaves are just to rise up in the middle of the night and start hacking to death people that they'll be included amongst those said people so when you go back and you read a lot of the newspapers politicians they're singing browns praises and I can actually give to you java if you want I have a I have a page of about hundred quotations fully cited where politicians open door meetings newspapers are basically saying like it will take the blood of all

1:41:21nine million white people to cleanse the sin of slavery like stuff like crazy stuff like this and saying like we think to like like in a way our modern media is actually slightly more tame in some senses than the 1859 media because some of the people literally were like these are politicians saying it's better for all of them to be massacred in the south than for this thing to go for it now get mind you this is the fringe view just like in the south the fringe is the fire interview that says you know slavery is this you know it's the gift from God right after sliced bread both of them of course are the extreme positions but these extreme positions ultimately pull people into this vacuum of the civil war this is one of the reasons why when you do see the ordinances of succession a lot of the ordinances of succession from the deep south cotton states talk about slavery but again modern trap that people fall into they justify that and they say the whole war therefore is about this people have to go and read the convention debates read some of the other published works that are in tandem with it like for instance the list of causes from the state of

1:42:25South Carolina and you'll see all the other issues that I've before mentioned talked about you know tariffs nullification constitutional issues you'll have people of course who bring up Alexander Stevens you know famous cornerstone speech where he talks about in the context of the south that the bedrock of the Confederacy is the institution of slavery interestingly that's not his quotation he's quoting in his speech an 1833 Supreme Court justice judge who is making this this quote and ironically you can't find Stevens speech today very easily online but if you do you'll notice that the issue of slavery is actually brought up after six other issues all of which I've mentioned earlier constitutional issues tariffs nullification etc etc before you finally get to that issue so it is an issue but it's a highly nuanced contextual qualified issue that has to be studied in its right context I mean this issue between the north and south it doesn't start in the 1850s or 60s it starts at the constitutional congress you know before you know even before the

1:43:30American revolution they were battling you know power plays back in those days and this was just simply an inevitable outcome which is part of the reason why what's his name my brain shut off what's his name John it thank you John Adams wanted you know George Washington you know the guy who showed up in a uniform the continental congress every day that he's wearing his his resume on him but he wanted George Washington because he was a southerner because he was a virginian and that helped to create unity between all of the colonies it can't just be a it can't just be a north thing it has to be an us thing and that's why they they were able to you know and of course Washington was a you know was quite the volunteer he wanted the job he was campaigning for it hey Drew Black says there were heroes on both sides Lincoln paid the ultimate price well he sure did but I'm not a fan of Lincoln I think 600,000 plus lives is too high a

1:44:32price because at the end of the day and this is my theory and I and what do I know I'm just a knucklehead with a with a with a microphone but at the end of the day slavery was going to go away we just didn't need to spend 600,000 lives doing it this country's never never never in my opinion this country's never gotten over the American Civil War it's moved on from thinking about it but it still plagues our country and I don't believe 600,000 souls is the right price to to bring about the end of the of the institution of slavery in the south it would have come to an end anyway and for proof of that I will just say we'll look at the thoughts of Robert E. Lee look at the thoughts of General Jackson both of which you know say hey we got to bring this we're going to bring this to an end eventually it's not it's it's not tenable we just got to fear how to do it you got to do it well that was I think they're arguing we should think you think that's fair

1:45:33oh hold on hold on we're okay meh I just I got love you thanks for ordering my book I really appreciate you let me know what you think when you read it I do appreciate all right go ahead I for the record people I read through Joe's books and it was basically I'm right I'm right I'm just repeated over and over again why do you get this spoiler away why do you just after 400 pages they got really concerning you know I had to I had to make sure Joe is doing okay but do you see volume two yeah 800 pages yeah it should be fun yeah no it's I was a it's fair in the sense that you know even Davis he when he's talking about the debates about the expansion of slavery out westward a lot of them know that slavery feasibly can't even work in the western territories because it's not the right agricultural climate for it but again the issue was who has the constitutional authority when it comes over to this particular issue because it's in the constitution at the time that slavery isn't a protected institution so that's where the debate comes but they did recognize

1:46:34that this thing while highly lucrative right it was highly lucrative for a very small percentage of people was most likely going to be on its way out because moral sentiments both north and south head shifted away from it and also this is a very important thing even in 61 1861 there were northern individuals that can provide the citations who were already recognizing that prominent members of the Confederacy were suggesting gradual emancipation of all the slaves in the south to get foreign recognition this movement grows and grows and grows until probably by 63 64 congresses in the south is having massive debates about this in the context of the Hampton Rhodes conference that you see Lincoln and Alexander Stevens they have in 64 I think it is Lincoln's pretty clear that the south can be brought back into the union with all of their slaves if of course they can try to maybe stop the 13th amendment from passing but again his ultimate desire is for the union to be ratified interestingly the south makes the argument well what if we were

1:47:38to abolish all the slaves but remain free will you allow that Lincoln and Lincoln says no right so again if the war was only about the issue of slavery which again it's not only about it then some of these nuanced questions wouldn't make any sense and so I think it's fair and I do think your description of it being kind of like a nasty memory I do think that that's essentially how a lot of people view the Civil War today unfortunately today though it's like we're fighting our own war about how to even understand it because we do have like this great vast wealth of traditional stuff that we can tap into and then we have a lot of again not to be too like brought of brush but a lot of modern day professors who in my opinion I don't think they read original sources I think they read each other's books and then they comment about the subject and so it's just wild. Hey we're going to be we're going to be saying goodbye here in just a few minutes um you're working on a documentary on an American Civil War aren't you? So I'm working on I'm working on three things but are not so the first one is I'm working on a

1:48:41lot I started an institute it's called the National Civil War Institute people can check it out at the national civil war institute.org essentially the program is to try to bring traditional history about this and have people understand it and so one of the projects we're working on is a large chronology day by day documentary series where we go through literally every single day of the American Civil War in documentary format I've been working on this it's going to start coming out on hopefully November the 6th of this year and that's very professional been working behind the scenes and I've been reading and studying a lot up on it and also teaching about it on my private Facebook page so if you're happened to be you know of the 300 people that actually know me you know you can follow along and see all of my private work when it comes to that so those are the two things or the first one second thing is I'm working on a series of books about this subject I expect this to be a very long series but I've been writing now about a year's time period coming up on a year's time and I already have over a thousand pages right that I've really done so yeah over a thousand pages heavily documented again I this is what happens when you're not married you have all

1:49:46this fun time that you can spend talking about people from a couple hundred years ago and then the final thing that I'm working on and this is for the traditional Thomas so for all the Catholic viewers for like or is the theology one of my next videos coming out probably it's going to be called something like my great the how I was tempted to leave Christianity and it's going to be a documentary talking about why stay a Christian but what my greatest temptation was and it's going to be talking about one of the themes that I brought up actually in our last conversation which was the fact that you know Catholics bar since orthodox they're all arguing about the marks of the church were the true church were the true church look at this point look at this point and when it comes down to it Christ says that the way that you know that you are my disciple is based off of how you love one another that doesn't negate all the other arguments but he's the one who said that this was one of the most important factors and so I'm going to talk about I'm going to go through all of the scriptures that talk about how we're supposed to love one another as Christians it's a massive theme in the scriptures the apostles and church fathers they called this the great commandment of our Lord

1:50:48and yet we don't even talk about it really anyway at all yeah and um you also sent me a link to a to a documentary film you did where you spent a month at clear creek abbey which I didn't even know you did this I mean this was uh this was very very interesting tell me about that real quick yeah for people don't know back in 2023 I created a documentary called salvation by the light that's a line that comes from one of the works of St. Catherine of Siena and I go to clear creek abbey in Oklahoma and I read through the entire the of st. Thomas's summa in one month and I basically talk about the uh yeah it's again what happens when you're single you have this ability of being able to see this great theology but more or less in the setting in which it would have been written a close setting if you will and so it's basically my experience it's about two hours long you can find it for free here on youtube just go to my channel and go under the oldest video and you'll find it there it's pretty pretty interesting video it's some uh hidden lore about me that a whole lot of people don't know that I created a massive documentary check them out well uh I'm I'll send it to

1:51:54you James and you can put a link to it as well hey adgers says the reason I asked about the surrender of the battle flags earlier is because I inherited the 53rd Georgia regiment battle flag and muster rolls it was snuck out of apomattox surrendered with no option that's pretty cool that's pretty cool uh as I said yesterday my my great great great great I think it's my third great grandfather uh Lewis Davis fought with a six Missouri infantry Confederate at uh at Vicksburg which is demonstrably the greatest most pivotal battle of the war I don't care what I don't care what Nick's gonna say about Gattiesburg okay listen long street was right Robert E Lee was wrong the charge was dumb the rest is as say history however Vicksburg pivotal even Abraham Lincoln said it was the key right just nod your head Nick just nod your head just agree with me and we can all just move on anyway thanks for hanging out Nick of us thanks for being a part of the team check them out at the

1:52:57attritional Thomas podcast we'll see you guys back here tomorrow for another round with doctor Anthony Stein until then shares with the friend