Michelle Buteau on the Final Season of 'Survival of the Thickest'

0:00WNYC Studios is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over $900 on average. Pop over to Progressive.com, answer some questions, and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99% of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit Progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash back. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates, National average 12-month savings of $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary. This is all of it on WNYC. I'm Allison Stewart. Earlier this summer, actor and comedian Michelle Boutot returned to the role of the vibrant plus-size stylist,

1:00Mavis Beaumont, for the final season of the comedy drama series, Survival of the Thickest. The show followed Mavis after she re-invisions her life and career in New York City. To catch you up, season one, Mavis quits her job and pursues her dream of being a fashion stylist in a world that likes people to fit in one box. Season two, she finds and loses and finds love again, all while dealing with the challenges of betting on yourself. And for season three, Mavis wants to start a family ever-owned but realizes chosen family is important too. The third and final season of Survival of the Thickest is now available to stream on Netflix. Here's my conversation with creator and star, Michelle Boutot. Oh my goodness, I just feel like you and I are just like a 23-and-me campaign. Like, it's just giving diaspora.

2:00And I love that for us. I love that. It made me a little sad when you were breaking down the season. Yeah. I'm so excited that it's going to be out in the world soon, but I'm so bummed that this is where I say goodbye to Mavis. But it's such a great arc that she goes on. It is. You know, when you first started out, what were your goals? And then by the time you got to the season three, how did they change? I'm like, when you get anything greenlit as a comedian, a plus-sized comedian, woman of color, you know, when a platform like Netflix wants to option your book, you're like, I hope I do a good job. I hope people watch. I hope I don't get canceled. Like, those are the things, you know? And then when you realize that you can trust your instinct and people around you and it does work and people do respond to it, like, in Kenyan, just countries you would never even think to imagine. I'm like, oh, okay, this is, we have a responsibility. So like, let's go. And it's been awesome. You actually, this was based on your book. For 20 or so. No one knows it's a book. Yeah. No one knows it's a book.

3:01Look, I'm like radio, we know about books. I know. And you know what? Everyone always introduces me as like New York Times bestseller. Michelle, it was never a bestseller. Just the right person read it. It's a good sell. Okay. But all this to say, don't work for a list. Just make something that you love that resonates with people because the right person saw it and said, this should be a show. So that's the lesson. Yeah. Also do the research. But go on. But go on. Well, who's the person that read the book and came to you and said, this should be a show? Oh my god. Shout out to Kristen Zolner. She was an executive at Netflix. And she left Netflix shortly after and she said, I want to get this show greenlit because it's important and it matters and people would love it. And she got good taste. She was never wrong. Who were, sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That's way to put this. When you first went out and pitched the show. Yeah. When people necessarily didn't want it, how did they say that to you? Here's a deal. Never pitched the show. Yeah. Never pitched it. No, I wrote the book.

4:02The book didn't even come out. She had a copy of the book before. And then there was like some sort of really fun bidding war where I talked to different production companies and platforms about like, you know, how they saw the show and where they, so like all this to say, like, I do give a good pitch. I give a good pitch now, but I didn't have to pitch the show. I had the IP, I had the years of experience at Netflix and in like comedy, you know, so slow summer. It's pretty damn good. That's a pretty great thing to not have to pitch a show. Yeah. That's a good show. I'm talking to Michelle Boutot. Survival of the thickest, it's streaming on Netflix. It's first and final season. It's third and final season. Thank you. Mavis gets career success. She has complicated friendship. She has messy moments. Yes. And she has romance. Yeah. Let's listen to a clip where Mavis and her boyfriend, Luca, are stopped by an online content creator. We can talk about it on the other side. Excuse me. Excuse me. Are you two a couple? Oh my god.

5:02Now, I love your Instagram. You meant telling us how long you've been together? How is three months strong? Well, like, hasn't been three months? It's been like on and off for a year and a half. But like, with like emotional time zones, it's really given like three years. You know what I mean? Yes, but officially it's three months. We met really fast, but now we're taking it really slow and I like it. I think we're done in the right way. We are. Because you know, it's, it's all a process. Why was it important for you that her story not revolve around overcoming her body, overcoming her doubts? Oh, because we're beautiful no matter what. No matter what shape or size or shade, we are beautiful beings. We're just souls walking around this earth just trying to have the best day to be loved. And we are enough. So that wasn't something that I wanted my character to have to overcome because, you know, my mission statement from the show has always been, it's not us that needs to catch up to the world.

6:04It's the world that needs to catch up to us. There's always been fat people. There's always been thick people. There's always been non-binary people and trans people forever and all of time. There have been people. We are people we exist. We deserve to have a happy story. So that was a non-negotiable. But what I really wanted, because maybe this is a 38 year old, and I started to show what I was like, 48 lies in the seats. Come on! Don't crack and base, don't age. Come on, WWE, let's go! But I wanted maybe us to sort of do the things and say the things I always wanted to be for myself to give that, you know, Susanna, Sugar Baker monologue from Designing Women, you know? And so, I told you I'm 48, what do you want from me, Nicky? Night! But, and I'm like, there is a way that you can stick up for yourself and advocate for yourself without, you know, getting mad, getting heated, you know, so that's kind of what I wanted to put in the show, but, and I think I did. And, you know, especially help from her chosen family, you know,

7:06because I'm the only child, and my friends are my family, and I also wanted to showcase that too. We got a text that says, listen, my imaginary best friend is an Allison Stewart, it's Michelle Brutal. Okay! Not for nothing. You got a good friend there! You got some good friends there! As coming from Clinton Hill, by the way. Have you, tell me about a time when a fan has shared a story that the show really touched them? Oh my God, there's, that's like picking my favorite Whitney Houston song, almost impossible because there's so many beautiful stories there is one of a woman who said this was the first time she laughed after her husband got diagnosed with brain cancer the second time. There is also a mom in some Eastern European country who was like, I get to watch a show about trans people having a happy life. Now that my teenager's transitioning, there are so many women, so many thick people who are like,

8:07I think I can love myself. I think I deserve to be confident. I think I'm going to wear color today. I think I'm going to have, I'm, make my shirt a crop top, like even down to those like simple little things that just, sorry Marie Kondo, thank you so much, spark joy. And so, you know, I can make people laugh as I do, I'm funny, I can make people laugh, but if I can make people feel and think and love themselves, cherry, all upon that cake. And I just saw the Tia face. Comedian actor Michelle Boutot returns as stylist, maybe she wants, I'm keeping my composure for the final season of survival of the thickest. You are a writer, a per executive producer, you star in the series, with a whole bunch of other creative individuals, we'll talk about them in a minute. How often have the directions or detours of maybe the story gone in ways that have surprised you? You said like, oh, we're going to go in that direction or, oh, somebody else in the staff thinks that maybe she should do this. Yeah, it's always interesting to hear what people want to see,

9:10because it really, we're talking about stories that matter, marginalized communities, uplifting people, but then also like things that we haven't seen on TV before. So, you know, what I do love is taking a germ of an idea, a theme or a story from my show, and then having beautiful TV executives and writers just like funnel it into this TV world. Because, you know, it's got to make sense in eight episodes. Yeah. And so many things, I don't want to give anything away, but like career wise, yes, career wise, I'm like, wow, we did it. What a journey. What was it on the learning curve for you? To, I think to really trust my instinct, you know, just because someone's been doing something longer than you doesn't mean that they know more. You know, especially if this is like, if something is your project, your voice, or even if you're lending your voice to something, it's okay to say, I don't agree with that, or let's circle back, or I don't see a world that that like fits in.

10:11Like, it's okay to, you know, disagree. And I think coming from hosting land, and you know, field producing for the local news, like I was just here to like kind of people please and make, give the client what they want. But it's like, uh-oh, I'm the client. Mm-hmm. I've got to get what to want. It's sort of interesting that idea of disagreement, that you can disagree and move on. Yes. I think when you're young, you think like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make this person not want to be around me. Yeah. I don't want, they don't want me to be to work with me. Yeah. And as you get older, you sort of understand, no, it's okay to disagree. Yeah, I think it's healthy, you know, whatever, whatever comes to your mind when you think of the word confrontation, you know, just follow that up with communication. It's sort of interesting, as you get older, it's okay to say no. What was something that you said, no, too? On this series. With this show. Yeah. I think, I think hard decisions about protecting my peace,

11:13mm-hmm. Whether it's a long day or language or storylines or, you know, energy from, you know, people that might not be the right fit. Mm-hmm. And that's okay. Yeah. And that's okay. Got another text here, Michelle Butto, I've seen you live so many times, and I cannot be more excited that the WNYC audience gets to experience you. This show is so important as someone not exactly white, not exactly thin, and not exactly young. Thank you. Okay, I'm gonna say not exactly, but thank you for the opportunity to be here. I'm gonna say not exactly, but thank you. I love that. One thing I like about the character of Mavis is that she's confident, but she still has moments when she doubts herself. Yes. You know, why is it important to keep that as part of the character? So we make sure that we don't lie to ourselves. We can't live in a lie. I think if someone acts like they have it all figured out

12:13all the time, then they are pretending. You don't. And that's okay. We can figure it out together. And so, you know, I think, like what I tell my kids when we're playing, you know, TikTok tour, whatever it is, like we're never losing, we're only learning. So I would rather figure out the lesson here in a safe space and then move on. So I think that's, I think it's fun, and in funny, relatable. Where's Mavis in her career in season three? Cause we've seen ups and downs. Oh my God. Without, without too many spoilers, she, the way, I had an actor teacher tell me one time, the way you do one thing is the way you do everything. And so the way Mavis is pursuing her love is the way that she's also pursuing her career. And so it's still bigger picture. It's still inclusive, but this time,

13:14she's getting it done. Your wardrobe, let's talk about that, but that before you go to the break. How involved are you in Mavis' wardrobe? What do you mean? Like do you say to the stylist like, she has to look a certain way in this episode. I mean, in that episode. In it, you know, like in the way I'm into my kids is the way I'm into Mavis' but like everyone's wardrobe, do you know what I mean? Because it's reflective of the world. And they're gay, right? And so for Mavis, the mood boards, at one point, Kia Bounds, shout out to the customer, Kia Bounds, who I call her Kia Nose No Bounds. I told her I wanna support black and brown and fat and queer designers. And we put, we put some of them on, which is amazing. It's very hard to get like a lot of plus size fashion because it's still not a turnkey situation, which is like a whole other thing about like FAB fobie, but it is what it is. We'll get to that in a minute because it's about the thickest coming out Thursday July 2nd

14:14on Netflix. But I mean mood boards, like at one point Kia is like, can you just stop sending me pictures of Salage and Janomo Nay and Tracy Ellis Ross and I was like them, but plus size. And so yeah, the specificity is everything and that's like the joy. You're listening to my conversation with Michelle Boutot, creator and star of survival of the thickest, which is now streaming on Netflix. This is all of it on WNYC. I'm Ellis and Stewart. Survival of the thickest returned for its third season on Netflix following the life of plus size stylists, Mavis Beaumont, creator and star, Michelle Boutot,

15:15joined me when the third season dropped. Let's get back into my conversation with her. We're not going to give anything away, but we will say that Mavis wants to become a mom. Yes. And she's pursuing that goal. Yes. A lot of people are struggling with career, mom. How old am I? As a maternal age, back and forth. What did you want to say on the show that hadn't been said before about a woman deciding to be a mom? Oh my God, I almost said. And these questions are so good. I tried. OK. I planted the seed in season one about being a mom because that is something that women do. I put people talk about without necessarily a plan. And I think you do have a time limit. You have this sort of like expiration or something that happens. And there are other big questions of how

16:17can it fit into my career and how can I even afford it? And I think the biggest things that I want to hit was access. How limited access we have to, whether it's knowledge of our bodies or how our bodies work, to health care, to like, again, the knowledge of like infertility and what that means. And also just how lonely it is, how like you want something that like a lot of people want or not want. And that's OK. Everyone should have what they want. And I want that for them. But like, do you want a family and to pursue it and how hard that might be for it doesn't even matter how old you are, how lonely that is? And I know for me and my husband, I have a big network. And then I have like a peripheral network of friends and comedians that were amazing and hilarious. But for five years, it was just IVF and losses and money. And I felt really lonely. And I was like, if I feel lonely and I have access to all these people who want to be there for me, what is it like for someone who doesn't have that?

17:18And so that's why I wrote about it in my book. And I do jokes about it on stage and my specials. And yeah, and we touch on it this season. It's interesting because in the show, Mavis is having a hard time telling Luka about the serious conversation she wants to have with them. The character of Mavis, why is she having such a hard time talking to Luka about this very serious issue? Yeah, it's one of those things, right? Like when you meet someone and there's like these stages of a relationship, you feel like you have to get through first. And Mavis wants to give time for these stages to happen, but really doesn't have time, especially when she's falling in love with somebody from another country. Like there's just so many hurdles I have to get over. And so it's sort of like having the hardest conversation with the person you love the most.

18:18Again, I'm coming back to this word confrontation in my mind. And it is a different type of confrontation because you don't bring it up because you're afraid of what they get to say. And that ultimately means you're afraid of rejection, right? And so it's hard to talk about something or tell people what you need if you've never been in that situation. So when people are like, tell me what you need. It's like, I don't know yet. Yeah. I'll let you know when I know. I've never been here before. It's interesting in the show because it pivots from being laugh out loud, funny, to being, you can be super vulnerable in the next scene. Yeah. How do you find the balance as a performer, as a writer, and as we'll find out as a director? I mean, it's just who I am. It's just who I am. I don't mind going deep quite quickly. We can keep it surface. We can keep it real. We can keep it gully. We can keep it a lot of different ways. I'm from a lot of different parts of Jersey. And I'm Caribbean. And it's very Catholic. It's like a lot of stuff going on. So I don't mind. But I feel like in terms of post editing,

19:21even filming in the moment, you feel what you need, right? And that balance, if you're doing it right, and working with people who understand what you're trying to do, because I think if it's just like laugh, let, like, if it's just like jokes all the time about a serious subject, then it doesn't feel like you're respecting the subject or people's time. It's interesting. The show has a real embrace of an LGBTQ plus characters. Yes. How have these kind of relationships been helpful to Mavis? Oh my god. Well, besides the fact that queer people will save us, period, point blank period, happy pride every day, all day, all year round, it's, I just wanted to show my New York, my world. And so when people often ask me the question of, why did you put so many queer people in your show is because queer people exist, especially in my life. And they're in your life, too.

20:21So talk to your friends and your family. And as I'm looking at the landscape of television as well, especially on the international platform, I feel like, honestly, this could save lives. This could make people believe in themselves, to be truthful, to be out, to love, educate people through love and laughter. Let somebody know that we are all people at the end of the day. We just want to be loved and do a good job, right? And if we have to pay taxes, I guess that's what we do. But like in all those countries, yes, love each other. There's this great scene. I've seen the show the third season. And I found it really interesting because it's New Year's Eve. And you have your bestie from when you're a childhood and your boyfriend. And you want them together at the same time. You do. And it's interesting because we don't, it's not in the boyfriend wants to tell Mavis. The B. Yes. But you have to see that Mavis is having to balance her past and her future.

21:23Yeah. What is she doing in that moment? Does she know what she's doing? Does she understand that Lucas her future and Khalil is her past? Or are they supposed to go together? Or how is she going to do that? I don't think she understands that yet. I think she's just in the moment. She's in the eye of the storm. And this is like a thing that happens. You have your bestie that has picked you up off the floor. That's your day one, not your plus one, the one that's been there through thick and thin. And then all of a sudden you bring in this new person that you're dating. And now all of a sudden your best friend's got an in-law they never asked for. And Mavis, a few times this season, is really trying to have a blended family. Yeah, she really is. And everybody has to meet each other where they're at when they're ready. And I realized that when I was trying to put my husband into the fold, I was really trying to stick him into every kind of world. I have like in my life.

22:23And everybody, it was like, wow, they have to really meet each other on their own time. I'm talking to Michelle Boutot. Yes, girl. We're talking about the final season. The very end. You know me, oh my god. You know me, oh my god. Oh my god. Tell your friends and tell them friends. In fact, just put it on and leave the house. Just leave it on. Those numbers count. Completion rates, please. New York is a big part of the show. Yeah. Also, a part of New York that people may not have seen before. Like you went to AfroPong last year. Yeah. You do volunteering at God's Love We Deliver. Yeah. What is it about the city that makes it right for this show? Oh my goodness. I mean, dreams are realized here. And it isn't just like being an actor. This is like, if you just walk on the East River and look at the statue of Liberty, you're going any ferry. You're just like for 250 years, whether it's by choice or not, people have been coming here trying to think of a dream,

23:24like a better, bigger dream that they had at home. And it is hard. And it's very hard. And it will push you in ways that you never thought you could be pushed. But at the end of the day, we produce what? Doigmans, Nix and five, and so I'm just like, that's what it is. And that's why New York is such a character of the show. Because New York gives you character. I want to ask you about one of the sites. Oh my God, you should. She's in the show. She plays your OBGYN. And you worked with her production company. I do. You're specials. Yes. Yes. Why was that important to work with Laundice? Oh my goodness, because she's an icon. She's so smart and beautiful and talented. And it's just like any time I get work with Laundice, yes. And her production company Push It has produced the last two comedy specials, Netflix specials. And I've done a bunch of pilots with her too. Still waiting to hear if they get picked up. It's been over 10 years, just kidding. So yeah, she's amazing. And also like work with people that you love and respect.

24:24And you may be friends with them or not. I don't know. But just the wish list. You know, there's also ICT and gentle lions and the show. In the show. In the show. In the show. In the show. In the show. In the show. In the show. In the show. In the show. In the show. In the show. In the show. In the show. And I'm touring different for you now. Now the show is, you had its third season. It's on a big platform. Yeah. How has that changed for you? It's harder and easier in a lot of ways. I love that I get to meet my audience. Because that's hard and that's rare. And I show up and I get to see them. And it's like, whoa, y'all came out for me. Y'all right or die. I love this. The travel is, it's no bueno. The travel is booboo. Public toilet seats, outside chairs on a plane, delays, weather, ice and airports. It's in sun. Like $13 carrot sticks.

25:26It's like, what are we doing? No early check-in, acumen. And so it's just like, the travel parts insane, leaving my family is not great. But wow, the man I get on this stage. It's pretty damn sweet. Got another text. It says, I worked Michelle when she was a co-host on VH1's big morning buzz live. She was hilarious and kind and whip smart back then and still is now so happy to see her success. Thank you. What do you remember from those days? Those early days. Oh, everything. Of your career, really? Everything. I remember editing overnight, since like just wishing I had a window because I'm like, I'm too cute for no window. I remember showing up and doing panels and talk shows and being the co-host. So what I do remember is having fun, realizing like, I'm going to color outside the box. And then I remember who's nice and who's not. What do you use from those days that you still bring to work every day?

26:27Work ethic, period. It's so fun. And it's supposed to be fun. You know, the days might be long, the food might be bad, but this is still fun. So if you're not fun, right? And you don't want to have fun and you want to be mean, you can go to another show. There's other shows that will take that. That's not my show. What were you thinking about as you realized? This is it. This is it from Avis. Oh, Alice, you're going to make me cry. What in the Barbara Walters? Um, you called me Oprah last time. So Barbara Walters, Oprah. Two for two. Gail King, come on, button. I was getting, okay. So, uh, you know, honestly, like I don't want it to stop here, meaning like legacy in a way that you can't like ever sort of comprehend because that's the future, right? But legacy in a way where I hope people really appreciate Avis and run it back and watch it again or quote her or situations.

27:29And also that they look inside themselves and create something that they never thought they could. Avis is my grandma's name. And I thought it's so nice to like carry her with me because she was my first soulmate. And so I'm so glad that I got to do this and honor her. And I know she is so proud of me. Well, a big button. Tiny ankles and Jamaica. Yes, the rest in power, Avis. But like, yeah, I mean, just do the thing. Keep saying I have an idea. Just do the idea. It's fine. You bet on yourself, didn't you? I bet on life's kind of. Can I say that? Okay, it's okay with me. Let's colonialism. What was I doing? What the hell? Okay. That was my conversation with Michelle Boutot, creator and star of Survival of the Thickest, which is now streaming on Netflix. Coming up, pre-existing condition, a critically acclaimed play by actor Marin Ireland returns

28:30to the stage this week. We'll discuss it next.