Mindful Meals and Calm Minds: Eat, Breathe, Digest with Jill Nussinow

0:00Hello and welcome to the Helian Odyssey, finding your own way forward, where we embark on a journey of transformation, resilience and hope. I'm Emya Host and I'm thrilled to embark on this transformational journey with you, as we explore the complex world of addiction, recovery and mental health. Whether you're struggling with addiction yourself, supporting and loving through their journey, or simply interested in understanding these issues better, this podcast is for you. We're here to break down the stigmas, and my mission is to shed light on the crucial topics that affect millions of lives around the world. We'll be deep diving into the intricacies of addiction and recovery, mental health challenges and solutions, personal stories of heartache, but mainly transformation and resilience. Each week we'll be joined by an array of fantastic guests, including experts in the field, survivors with powerful stories and loved ones offering unique perspectives. We'll be covering topics such as resilience building, positive psychology, healing techniques,

1:00debunking those myths, relatable stories and experiences, and for our members there'll be exclusive training sessions and actionable content to support your journey. Enjoy this episode, don't forget to check the links and speak to you soon. Recovery isn't just about the big breakthroughs. Sometimes it's about the little things that help us breathe, smile and just keep going. That's why I created Come Foot Without Chaos. A collection of mugs, books and thoughtful gifts designed to bring a little comfort to everyday life. If you'd like to have a look, you'll find everything at emigardner.uk. Speak soon. Okay, thank you everyone, and today I am joined by Jill at BreatheWiseHealth, and I'm so excited to speak to you today. We've already had a little chat, and yeah, please, thank you so much for joining me today.

2:03Oh, you are so welcome, and I'll just tell a little bit of my story. For 30 years, I taught people cooking, and so very basic skills, and I loved doing what I was doing, and then the pandemic hit, and I taught live. And so I thought, I didn't even think what am I going to do. I just kind of basically stopped doing what I was doing, and I happened to hook up with this program online called myyogateacher.com prior to the pandemic, and they offered a breathwork and meditation class five days a week, and I was doing yoga, and I got hooked into doing that, and I thought, wow, this is amazing. And so I started doing it, and then because I wasn't teaching, and then what happened was I started teaching Zoom cooking classes online, did not love it, but I did it, and

3:04I was pretty, I was okay at it. And then a friend of mine who I've known for 30 years said to me, you know, Jill, you could teach anything that you want, because I had been teaching at a community college. I mean, I'd done all kinds of things, and I thought, oh, wow, I could teach breathing. So I started teaching on Zoom, and my joke, it's not a joke. I went from an A-personality to a C-plus. Now let me tell you, being a C-plus is way better. I'm much more chill. Things don't really bother me quite as much. It's such a great way to relieve stress. It's kind of unbelievable. And when I talk about it, and I teach live now in some places, I say, well, you all have experience. So this should not be so hard, but we, most of us, they say 70% of people don't breathe

4:04correctly. And there is a very functional part to breathing, and it helps us access our parasympathetic nervous system. So instead of being in fight, flight, freeze, or flee, we can switch to rest digest, heal. And it is so unbelievable, because when you practice it, which I highly recommend people do, and you can practice all day long, you practice 10 minutes in the morning, 10 minutes at night, five minutes, three minutes, eight minutes, it changes your whole system. In every way, physically, psychologically, emotionally, physiologically. And it's very easy once you practice and get your breath moving with you instead of the opposite to change how you feel. And most of us want to feel settled. We want to feel good. We want to feel, wow, I'm in control of my life, you know, rather than my life is controlling

5:09me. And so it's pretty amazing how this works. And so I've been teaching on Zoom now for at least five years. I have a small group that needs twice a week. And then I do these in person things, which is always so different. Because at least with the Zoom things, it's so funny. I can record it. I go, can go back. I can see what I did, but I was just teaching yesterday and I said, what did I do last week? Because I don't like to repeat. And they were like, oh, I think you did this. And I was like, oh, yeah, I thought I did that. So while it's great to get into and breathing is so interesting all about rhythm and repetition. So while I like to change it up, you know, after a while, we're doing the same, maybe 10 breath practices over and over, I like it to be a little bit different. So even sometimes in the middle of a breath practice, I might change it. Because it stimulates your brain and gets it out of just numb.

6:14It gets it into like, oh, something was a little different. And I think we can get into a place where, where some things work and then they don't work at a client and she told me recently, oh, I was doing this thing to help me fall asleep, but it stopped working. I was like, yeah, your brain got used to it. So I gave her another practice to do and she just reported back, oh, yeah, that worked great. So you know, we're, change is all there is and adapting to that change is the most important thing. And the best way I have found to adapt to change is to really be with my breath because the breath helps you stay in a really safe place. Your breath is always there for you. So it's pretty amazing to really like think about, oh, yeah. And you know, when things happen, sometimes like something shocking happens, a lot of people

7:14go, and we hold our breath and that's so bad because then you know, you're, you're sympathetic nervous system kicks in and you're like, oh, what do I do? But if you can access your breath and not just say take a nice deep breath, but take a deep breath and really feel it. And especially for women, you know, we've been taught that our belly, pull your sucker gut in and pull your belly in. So like really relaxing your belly and probably for the first, I would say at least two months of my breath work practice, I just really couldn't let my belly just be. And so it's really like being with your body, with your brain, with your breath, with your mind, letting everything feel coherent, calm and connected because you can't separate this part of your body from the lower part.

8:15It's not just about your upper part. It's about the whole thing head to toe and toe to head. So absolutely. I love that. And of course, we take it for granted, don't we? Because it's that, that automatic thing. And we only realize it when we've been either concentrating on it or doing an exercise or we're out of breath from physical exercise or as you said, go into that fight or flight. So we don't, we're not always aware of it. And I loved what you said about being able to shift into the digest and that mode because we're often taught that's what we need sleep for. So it's really interesting that we can do that in consciously while we're awake. Well, I heard somebody talking about this and I thought it was kind of fascinating. She said, you know, before meals, it used to be that you sat down and you said grace.

9:20And grace is the time to just take a moment and just be in that moment. And the breath helps you be in whatever moment you're in. And so if you don't say grace and you can or not, that's your choice. But you could take one minute and just spend it deep breathing to get your body ready to be eating because truly, physiologically, your body's going to be in a better place if you take that moment and you just sit and it's ready to accept the food that you have. And I have noticed, I'm a registered dietitian that there are a lot of people who have digestive issues. And I think if you just, they took one moment, like one minute and spent it getting themselves into the right place physiologically that their digestion would be much better.

10:20And so think about it. If you just did it once a day, let's say at the evening meal, you would have put in 365 minutes of breath work just by doing that. And then I think for me, what happened is once I started to feel the positive effect of doing the breath work, I was hooked. I was like, I want to do more of that. Now I think there is a limit I was thinking the other day, oh my goodness, I did like five sessions last week and a session can be long. And I thought, maybe there's too much. But I don't really think there is. I just think, you know, sometimes it's a lot for us to process and we need a little integration time to just go through all that work. There is this part of breath work, which I don't do. I mostly focus on all the calming breath, the breath awareness, but there's the flip side, which is called trauma informed breath work where you go really deep and you dig up all

11:24your past trauma and you deal with it. And then you know, write about it and you do these things. That's not me. I'm not, I don't want, I personally don't want to go there necessarily without really a lot of support, but I think just doing the very mild breath work and really getting into a calm state, it feels like what really works for me that I like to share with other people. So yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And so while you were talking, I was thinking of my husband and when I met him and I can understand why he was one of two, four, six, I think he was one of seven. So when it came to meal times, it was like fight for what you can get, fight for what you can eat. And if you were the last one eating, everybody else would be on your plate. So he would just eat and just swallow and I'd always say to him, when I met him, chew,

12:28just chew your food, taste it, enjoy it. He's much, much better now, but I can understand why he was like that. Well, I came from a smaller family, but I think my father ate quickly and we all learned to eat fairly quickly and it is not a good habit coming from my nutrition hat from my breath work hat. It really pays to slow down, it pays for your body because it takes 20 minutes for your brain to register that you're full. And if you eat quickly, you tend to eat more than you would if you ate slowly because sometimes, and this has happened to me, I'm not a perfect person yet, is that you're eating and you're eating and then you're like, oh, I'll just eat a little more. And then the next thing like minutes later, 20 minutes, you're like, oh, I'm so full, I shouldn't have those last five bites or whatever it is. And it doesn't really give us the time that we need and I have taught mindful eating and

13:34there's this little thing you can do with a raisin. It's so fascinating. You know, I'd hand out raisins, be in people's hand, it's like smell it, feel it, you know, really be in touch with that thing. They don't always know what's in their hand and then put it in your mouth, run your tongue along it, see what it feels like. You know, see what that thing is and then after you've done a little bit of that and your saliva is going and that's the first part of digestion is in your mouth. So then you bite it, you chew it and the first bite does not taste at all like the second or third bite or when you're really chewing it because you have enzymes in your mouth that help boost what you're feeling and tasting and then you chew it, chew it, chew it and then you swallow it and it is quite an experience that happens over a minute or two minutes. That's so different than just putting a raisin in your mouth, biting it and swallowing

14:36it. So it's the awareness, the mindfulness of it and it is a really amazing thing and if you translate it to almost anything in your life, it works like looking at a flower, smelling that flower, touching the flower and I very much into nature because nature is a teacher and nature goes at the pace of nature, not at what you want and as human beings, I think we have a really hard time going at a slower pace than we think we ought to go and I have a friend who sent me a saying many years ago and it was go only as fast as the slowest parts of you want to go or able to go and it kind of helps you slow down which is not what happens in this pace of life. Everything's fast, everything's immediate and you mentioned your husband, my husband is like the phone guy.

15:37If someone sends him a text, he's like on it. I'm like you know that text will be there later, you can just deal with it later. I've taken my spraith and weight a lot of times when we take that breath and our mind slows down a little bit, we can think much more clearly and one of my breathers just sent me a link to a study that was in a journal I think called Neuro which was about how when you have longer exhales which is something we practice during breath work, longer exhales than inhales, they've proven, not that we need proof, your decision making is so much better because you've now slowed everything down and instead of having a reaction you have an action and I think this is the joy of doing breath work, of teaching breath work for me is that it gives us a space, a place to be like I don't have to react, I can spend

16:4210 seconds, 15 seconds, 30 seconds just being with what I'm feeling to get to the next place and instead of saying well this just happened to me, instead of saying yes which I just did for something that it turns out I cannot say yes to. I could have said oh it wasn't like a hard yes but it was like oh I could now be like oh yeah I forgot I have this thing the next day and it's not going to work out and then you know sometimes we commit to something and then we're like no that doesn't feel right and maybe not even knowing why and maybe I did know why unconsciously but I didn't investigate and say you know let me get back to you in 10 minutes, 3 minutes, 5 minutes tomorrow and you know I think sometimes and I'm not a people pleaser much to my husband should grin but and but I have friends who appreciate who I am but you know it's not sometimes we

17:44just do it out of like a non-thinking like we just say yes and I believe in saying yes to many things but sometimes I have to go back and say you know that's not going to work out and what really makes sense in life because when we just say yes we're not always thinking of all of the possibilities and what could happen and what might happen and how do we how do we become the best we we can be you know how can I really take care of myself and the way to do that is to give yourself a little breathing space and I just use that phrase with somebody and I thought oh I've heard that for years give yourself breathing space and then I thought no literally give yourself breathing space take a moment and spend one minute with your breath and see what comes up because often what comes up is your intuitive deep answer for

18:51what really is going to work out and that's the amazing part yeah and so much of that it's funny my husband's my example tonight obviously but he I've just changed my phone so he's had my old phone so when he was changing everything over he's very hotheaded anyway and I have to and I'm the calm one so it would very young so he needed the pin from his old phone to transfer everything onto his new phone and he just couldn't remember it and I was like in the end it's like it's going down you've got 15 attempts before your phone locks and it has to go back to factory settings and it's going down and I said David just sleep on it I said it will help and we say these things like you said that that breathing room that breathing space we say things like it all the time and I

19:55knew if he slept on it it would work it didn't the first night but then he said he woke up at about three o'clock this morning with it in his head and he went running downstairs and he because his brother who had passed he had all the videos of him and everything on it so and he was like I got up this morning he was going it it's worked it's worked I said I told you to sleep on it that works but again I suppose that it's that relaxing isn't it giving your your head just some rest and time to just to search I suppose just that relaxation you know we we have such busy lives that our brain some for some of us especially like I have a brain that doesn't like to shut off necessarily and which can be good and you know sometimes not so good but the more that I am able to get my brain my breath my body my mind all in one place things become so much clearer and so I love to

20:59breathe for clarity for serenity for compassion kindness caring all of those things that means so much to me that it gives me the time and the place to do it and it's interesting to see because most people we don't I mean I don't know how many people do I haven't pulled a lot of people but many of us don't even take five or ten minutes in a day to just be and you know they've done studies on meditators and here's I think meditation is great I have to say I could probably be a better meditator but my meditation is the breath and the reason I love breath worker breath awareness is because it's active it's not just I'm not just sitting watching my thoughts flow in flow out I think it's great and I really love that but my mind brain seems to work better with with a little focus it doesn't

22:07have to be that much focus but the focus and there is a lot of breath talk in meditation like focus on the bottom of your nostrils focus on the air coming in your nostrils and what happens but for me the actual movement of the breath gives me the space to actually settle in more and forget about all the other things I was thinking just now as I was saying that I went to a silent meditation retreat many years ago I would say it was maybe ten or fifteen probably fifteen years ago and the thing that happened was my hips happened to be hurting me at the time and I found the sitting to be so uncomfortable and one of the things that I really encourage and you know again we are not wired for this in our mind maybe but not in our bodies comfort is the most important

23:09thing because if you are not comfortable you cannot let your mind just go and be you know you're thinking oh my left hip hurts that or my right wrist or whatever it may be my back you know so comfort when you're practicing breathing if you're sitting for practice matters so much that when I do it live my my online breathers know what to do but when I do it live I'm like you know you could sit against a wall you could have blocks under your knees you could do whatever makes you feel really comfortable and your your brain your breath brings you safety and comfort which allows you to just be in that space and most people do not take that time to do it and so you know I've learned a lot from my experiences and I have not had a lot of uncomfortable breathwork experiences

24:12because I don't want them to be that way I want them to be where you're like oh that was good and I got a supreme compliment yesterday one of the people and I don't know she's been to my breath work before maybe once she said and this is like the best compliment that went so fast and I'm like yay you know it was 20 almost 25 minutes of sitting and when somebody says that I'm like oh that's good because I do it with my group so I can't really I mean I look around and make sure everybody's doing okay but I also do the breathing and that is like the best when somebody says that went so fast because when in life when things are so hectic are you like oh that 20 minutes went so fast usually it's like that 20 minutes was kind of crazy and intense and so it's just it's just amazing to actually do it so I'm curious would you like to try a minute or two of

25:16of breathing absolutely yes please Jill okay perfect so I'm gonna have you sit up straight and tall if you're in a chair come forward just a little bit and then come back and find the place I call it the Goldilocks place or the sweet spot where your back is upright your chin is parallel to the floor and you're feeling a little bit relaxed hands anywhere you like on your thighs on your knees let your shoulders completely relax yes I see your neck needs a little relaxation move your neck your shoulders whatever you need to and the other place that really controls what you do and what happens for you is your jaw so let your jaw be relaxed mouth close though teeth lightly closed if at all and tongue on the roof of the mouth and just let your breath be as your

26:24breath is feel your breath moving if you like you can place one hand on your belly and really feel on every inhale let your belly just relax and expand let all the little muscles around your eyes relaxed your forehead looks very relaxed your jaw looks relaxed let that breath move effortlessly and easily let your exhales be a little longer than your inhales if you can feel how your breath is always there for you your breath is actually physiologically there to protect you to make sure that you have another breath come into this world with the breath we leave with the breath and we're granted many breaths in between and your nice slow deep breath right here right now

27:24fulfills you fills you energizes every cell in your body it allows your body to feel coherent and connected a space to be grounded heal your breath move effortlessly and easily we're going to do a very simple breath it's called the coherence breath it's done to the count of five in and five out this happens to be one of those breaths where you it's equal on both sides so let's start now with the deep inhale of one two three four five let your breath go all the way down to your belly and exhale from your belly five four three two one really access your belly inhale one two three four five

28:28and exhale from your belly belly pulls towards spine five four three two one inhale one two three four five exhale five four three two one on this inhale isolate your belly inhale one two three four five and exhale five four three two one and any time it feels right gentle smile on your face then inhale one two three four five exhale belly to spine five four three two one inhale belly expands one two three four five and exhale five four three two one

29:42one and inhale belly one two three four five and exhale five four three two one sitting up straight and tall keep your eyes closed just take a nice regular usual breath let your breath be organic and there for you your breath is always there for you let it be and gently open your eyes oh gel that was really that was two minutes of actual breath practice and one of the things you may notice is like where you feel it right yeah is funny you said about the shoulders and they felt so heavy I'm I've got terrible posture as it is but I know when I sleep and everything I'm like this all the time so feeling my

30:47shoulders they felt so heavy and it was nice just to let them relax yeah and the cure as well that's the other thing I have at night is really tense in my jaw so that was lovely just yeah and yeah yeah that that was two minutes plus the two minutes before so that's like only like you know four five minutes and you mentioned your jaw and I was talking to a dentist and he told me something like so many people to grind their teeth at night I was like really think he said like 75% of people and I was like wow because when we're sleeping we we you know we work out our attention and so I was like oh that's a lot of people but hopefully you can see just a couple minutes of settling in makes a amazing difference in everything everything and I love the way you said as well you can smile when

31:53it feels natural and would stop me thinking about how I should or shouldn't look you know should I smile shouldn't I all those things just just be and it's nice just to be able to be in there right well the interesting thing about smiling is it lights up the pleasure part of your brain and so just even during the day if you smile and the other thing is I recommend people put their tongue on the roof of their mouth it's not what we usually do it gives you a connection between this part and your brain so in the breath practice there's a lot of you know anybody can breathe everybody breathes right but 70% of people have dysfunctional breathing they're either breathing oh this is all done through the nose they're either breathing through their mouth or they're breathing too long or too shallow and most people breathe somewhere between 12 and 20 times a minute

33:01in this practice that I do it's generally between four and six breaths per minute and this slows down your heart rate which you want to do and it gets your brain to relax and we want all of that so we can access our self-better our intuition better our desires our dreams our life are healing you know we just can do it because we are in a mode of relaxation that we don't get in the rest of life and once you start doing it the goal is to get this breath the one that we just did or one similar to be your everyday breath so I'm positive I haven't checked but I'm positive my breath has really slowed down in the last six and a half years because I've been practicing and it's like any other practice the more you do it the easier it gets and

34:06one of my breathers she's a runner and we do this thing with like at night sometimes you can tape your mouth shut and breathe through your nose it teaches you to breathe through your nose and she said I'm running and I see people in there and she said I look at my husband and we go mouth-breather's and it's actually physiologically bad for you to breathe through your mouth and there's actually an Irish man his name's Patrick McEun and he is does this thing called oxygen advantage a particular type of breathwork and he was a mouth-breather and he tells his story about how bad it was for him and how dysregulated he was because of that and so there's many techniques but they if they all lead to the same place which is better integration with ourselves and being deeper with how we're feeling they're all fine except for a lot of mouth breathing

35:08which I don't like yeah it's funny you say that in meditations and things when people say like out in through your nose out through your mouth I still do it through my nose I find it feels so much more comfortable with that yeah so what it there's an interesting physiological part to that which which most people don't know and even in yoga sometimes the teacher will be like let it out through your mouth which is okay sometimes but what happens is when we exhale through our mouth we are blowing off carbon dioxide and there's this is a little scientific but not much there's three blood gases that we have one is oxygen between no and our general oxygen level is between 96 and 100 just from breathing that's our main thing that we do the second is nitric oxide which is produced by our nose and comes in through nasal breathing and the third is carbon

36:08dioxide and the carbon dioxide one of the reasons that if you hold your breath that you want to take that next breath is because the carbon dioxide level has gotten a little high and your brain is tied to breathe however you can train your body and your brain to allow a higher carbon dioxide level and what that does is carbon dioxide helps get the other blood gases into your body where they need to be and relax your body so when it's a training during the breathing and I don't do a whole lot of it but during COVID when people really need to breathe I was practicing breath holds and it takes a little practice because the first thing you want you know you're holding your nose or you're just stopping the breath you're like I need to breathe and sometimes when you feel that first like I got to breathe instead of taking that breath you relax and when you relax it allows

37:16that breath to go a little the hole to go a little longer which actually relaxes your body and so it's fascinating what we can do and I do this practice in the shower and people like do really do it and you've heard about these cold plunges well I don't have a cold plunger bowl and I am not big on cold plunges although I have the ocean right here and I'm not going in I'm not I'm not being on cold but at the end of my shower I do 30 seconds of cool to cold and I didn't start with 30 seconds it is a breathwork practice to relax into a big change and so I do that 30 seconds and my friend said to me do you do it I'm like yes I do it I don't just talk about it and it it takes work I have to say not every shower ends with this 30 seconds my goal is every shower and

38:19with 30 seconds however sometimes when my nervous system feels a little dysregulated which it can I'm like you know today is not the day to do that so because if you start doing it and you're not in the right space place whatever it may be then you feel worse after my goal is generally how can I feel better after so I count I breathe I relax and it I like I said I'm not cold plunging but this is my version of the cold plung and it is good to get contrast because we're always going to have change yeah it's I haven't done that for a long time but my shower doesn't change very easily so but I am having a new shower fitted in October so I'm hoping to start up that practice again and whether it all lasts 30 seconds I doubt for a while but it is my plan to start again

39:22yeah I mean there's so many things that it's interesting there's so many things that we can do for ourselves and with ourselves that require only time no money involved no special equipment this is what I love about breathing because having taught cooking for 30 years I always had stuff I'd have to bring and always things I could forget and like a lot and with breathing all I need to do is show up and have my brain and myself in the right place and I can teach other people how to do it amazing I love that it's it's something that's so important and and you said time and it doesn't have to take that long does it like what you just showed me and it really helps and you showed me one before we came on as well because I didn't realize that you taught cooking and there's me telling you about my my greasy takeaway it's okay it's okay and yeah it's helped with your energy yeah so

40:31you know I could I could show what it's so simple but this is energetic this is not calming and there's two ways you can do it and this is like if you're feeling if you don't have time for rest or a nap which I highly recommend that you can do this to boost your energy I just did it with my group last Friday because what was getting to be the weekend I'm like let's elevate the so all you do is you inhale you put your arms up you exhale you bring your arms down with fists inhale exhale and this is faster than what I usually recommend inhale exhale or the other thing you can do is you can do it out inhale exhale inhale exhale inhale exhale inhale exhale you do either one of these ten times and you don't need that cup of coffee and that's what a lot of people turn to maybe tea something caffeinated we have it within us the ability to change our energy

41:37which is amazing and so I like to do it that way I am one of the least caffeinated people I know and people like you have so much energy I'm like it's in here and as long as you can access it it works great so yeah absolutely it certainly helped me because in Wales we have a word called kutch which is like kuddle it's a special kuddle so I was I wanted to to cutch up just before I came on to the podcast because I felt so tired so ten minute kutch but yeah just doing that really really helped so yeah we can and as you said it doesn't cost anything just practice and that makes so much sense as well everything takes practice but it these little things we should be doing not just for energy or to relax we should be aware of it and be doing it daily for our own

42:39health and sanity I think the sanity leads to health we need them both then you know the more sane we are the easier it is to go in the direction of health yeah absolutely spot on yeah I absolutely love that Jill please tell me where we can find you and how people work with you so I have a website called and it's fairly new it's still getting worked out it's called breath wise health B-R-E-A-T-H-Y's like we are and health.com and I do classes via zoom I do private classes via zoom and because you and I are so many miles apart I'm not likely to do anything in person with you yet but you never know and so I do in person classes but I just love sharing what I know I'm considering having I have a YouTube channel it's private but because I

43:45record my zoom classes and I record my private classes which I think is very beneficial for people to actually see themselves afterwards so because sometimes it'll be like you know you need to just move your neck just a little this way or that way which we can't tell and I know this from my zoom yoga classes she's like your neck needs to be down and inch I'm like oh okay but anyway so I love teaching and I hope to have maybe put a YouTube channel together for my breath wise health and I thank you for having me too oh no thank you so these things are so important and I love it is it's one of those podcasts I'm not going to forget it's so simple but we still need reminding to do it and the beauty of it being on a podcast as well you can book market and things

44:45and put oh Jill talked about that don't know 32 minutes and it's so easy to access and then to get your information and find out more it's fantastic well thank you so much Jill it's an ex it's just such a pleasure and thank you for what you do and spread in the word of this because we all need to hear it so please once again please just share your website for us breath wise health calm that's amazing thank you so much for being with me today Jill I really appreciate it thank you thank you for listening to another episode of the healing odyssey find in your own way forward a huge thank you to everyone of our guests for sharing their valuable insights and experiences with us all each episode is so important and helping us all understand the complexities of addiction and recovery if you found today's discussion helpful please consider

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