MISSING: Bonnie Lee Schultz Part 1

Hi, crime junkies. I'm your host, Ashley Flowers, and I'm Britt, and I have an interesting

one for you today. One where I ask you to put aside old tropes and quick judgments and

listen all the way to the end of the story, because you just might find the thing that

I have come to learn over the years, that when you go beyond the surface level of a case,

things are never as simple as they appear. Because this case on its surface seems like

one that you might have heard before, a tragic tale. Old is true crime. Woman tells her

husband she wants to divorce. Woman goes missing. And husband does and says all the wrong

things which make everyone around him think that he is also guilty of a crime that they

can't prove even happened. He eventually dies under a cloud of suspicion, and the case

is still unsolved. But if the husband did it, and it was that obvious, why couldn't

the police make their case? For just a moment, I want us all to consider something. What

if the reason this case hasn't been solved isn't because answers went with her husband

to the grave? What if it's because no one ever looked for answers in the right place?

And if we could step back and reconsider what we think we know, is it possible to finally

find Bonnie Lee Schultz?

In a summer of 1997, Bonnie Lee Schultz found herself in a position that many women have.

She had gotten married young to her high school boyfriend and jumped quickly into the role

of homemaker, following her husband's job wherever it took them. And over 26 years of

marriage, she raised two kids who she loved more than anything. But no amount of love from

them back could fill the space that she felt growing between her and her husband Rick.

It wasn't the kind of thing that I think happens all at once, because of something said

or done, it's this like lifetime of small decisions that send two people growing in separate

directions. But there came a time for Bonnie when I think finding a way back to each other

probably didn't seem possible. About the time her youngest would have been going into

first grade, Bonnie decided to join the workforce. So she got a job at a company called RGIS,

sometimes called RGIS, doing inventory audits at stores in the area. I don't know if the goal

was just to get a little more independence and identity outside of the home or if it was just

to have some extra money since her husband kept her on a tight budget. But it served to do both,

nonetheless. And Rick wasn't a fan. Bonnie told her friend Diane that Rick made it clear. I mean,

she could go get her full-time job, but he still expected her to have the house cleaned and dinners

at the same way he did when she was a stay-at-home mom. So she juggled it all. But with time away

came perspective, and perspective is everything. The more Bonnie was around other people and saw

other relationships, she became less satisfied with her own. Now I have no idea how many conversations

she and Rick had in the privacy of their own home about her unhappiness or the unique challenges

of their relationship. But they never discussed marital problems in public, at least, not until 1997.

That's when things were coming to a head. Aside from whatever she was feeling internally about

her marriage, her mother got diagnosed with cancer and made a quick decline. She passed away in 1995,

which I'm sure kind of brought with it a whole other host of feelings. And so by Easter 1997,

when her and Rick were in Wisconsin for her niece's first communion, Bonnie's brother Mike says that

he and his siblings witnessed the first fight that he had ever seen between the couple.

Bonnie had instigated it, pointing out that Rick didn't do things for her that other husbands

did for their wives. The specifics are lost on Mike all these years later, but he said,

it was kind of her just being like, you know, so and so does this for their wife. This person

does that. You don't do any of these things for me. And he said it might have started as banter,

but it actually got heated until finally the couple just like stopped. And probably in like good

Midwest fashion, everyone sat in awkward silence for about half a second before trying to just

like change the subject and pretend like they didn't see what just happened. Well, and I wonder

how much of that was brought on by her mom situation, like not just watching her die in all the

emotions that come with that, but like you said it was quick. So like the idea that any moment

could be your last. Your life is so short. Right. It would make you like really take stock of

things. That's what I was saying, like brings up this whole host of feelings, like, am I happy?

Am I living the life that I want to live? And I mean, I could read into this for days because

traditionally, the farther back you go in generations, the more you have just these like expectations

of what it means to be a wife and a mother and married. And like you pick a path at 19 and then

all of a sudden, that is your lot in life for your 45. Like was her mother happy? I don't know. I know

nothing about her mother's life and marriage. Actually, Rick does say that he feels that this

kind of was like playing a part. Yeah, but I mean, I see your point. I think it's a good one. Like,

death in general just gets people thinking and it is very impossible. And likely based on what

Rick later says that whatever was bubbling under the surface got accelerated by her mother's death.

Because after that fight in Wisconsin, things don't go back to status quo when they get back to

Indianapolis. Two weeks before she went missing, Bonnie called one of her closest friends,

Diane DeSando. The two actually lived pretty close to each other and so they would often go for

walks whenever one phone the other. But this time when Bonnie called Diane knew that it was different

right away. I mean, for one, it was late when she called like 9 p.m. And when she heard Bonnie's

voice, she could tell right away that she was upset. So the two met up for a walk and she said

Bonnie just like unloaded. She said Rick made her feel unappreciated and ugly. Their intimacy was

gone and she had to beg him for any affection. And this all of this was already taking Diane

back. I mean, they hung out like with the couple, like her and her husband all together. They

played cards all the time. She had no idea. But you never really know. Yeah. But then Bonnie,

this is when she dropped the real bomb. She said, I'm about to have an affair and I really don't

want to do that to Rick. But you know, I need somebody that makes me feel appreciated and loved

and I don't feel that anymore with him. And so Diane was like, well, why don't you just ask Rick

for a divorce to help him? You don't want to be married anymore. And Bonnie said that she was

afraid of how Rick would react. But clearly, that's where things were headed because she also said

that she was going to start looking for apartments, though she had no idea how she was going to

actually afford one. I mean, she wanted something close by so the kids could still see their dad,

but even the two bedrooms were too much. And she probably really needed three since her son was

15 and her daughter was 10. And the bigger issue at hand was that she didn't even know how to get

a divorce or how much that would even cost. And so she was really looking to Diane for some kind

of advice or help. And Diane was still married. So she's like, listen, I have no clue. Like,

what about one of your sisters? Can you ask them? And Bonnie was like, no, no, no, no. I don't want

any family knowing at this point. So Diane made another suggestion. She said, well, isn't there

a lady at work who you said is divorced? Like, maybe you can ask her. And there was possibly

more than one. But I know for sure that Bonnie began confiding in a woman named Anita Cardone.

Just a pause for a second. Can we go back to the fair comment real quick? Like, was there someone

specific she was talking about? Or was she just like, I'm so lonely. I have to do something like

this is the path that I'm on based on like where my relationship with my husband is in this

conversation with Diane. She doesn't name anyone specific. Okay. Diane didn't press for a name or

details at the time. She just kind of wanted to let Bonnie vent without prying too much. And she

assumed that there was someone it would probably just be someone that Bonnie worked with. And there

actually was someone and Diane's assumptions were spot on. The man she was having in a fair

with was John Guy. And he worked at RGIS with Bonnie and Anita. Now, I don't know how her relationship

with John started or exactly when, but Bonnie was getting bolder. With every day that past,

she seemed more comfortable standing on her own, going places, making plans whether Rick approved

or not with people he didn't know. She put a deposit down for a cruise that she planned to take

with co-workers in December and encouraged by Anita. She began going out more after work with

like that group of people to just grab drinks or to at least be social with those drinking because

like she wasn't much of a drinker herself. So somewhere in all of that, something began to blossom

between Bonnie and this John guy. And she was probably feeling seen and cared for and so many

other feelings that she probably resigned herself to believing were for other people. But it wasn't

a fairytale. John told her he wasn't going to date a married woman, so there wasn't a happy

ending where she didn't hurt someone. But for probably the first time, in 26 years, Bonnie was

going to choose herself. On July 3rd, 1997, she sat with Rick on the front porch of their home,

and in no uncertain terms told him that she wanted a divorce. They went back and forth for a while,

but there was no talking her out of it. The time for compromise had passed, like her mind was made

up, and she wasn't going to keep arguing about it. She told Rick that she was going to go to a

house party with Anita to watch fireworks that night, and then she would be back because she promised

to take their daughter Gretchen to a movie, and then the family was going to go see a firework show

together the next day. It was going to be July 4th. Diane recalls Bonnie saying how excited that

Gretchen was for the fireworks, so she was like set on going. Even if it was going to be awkward

being around Rick and their friends when no one else would know that they were about to separate.

And like the thing I want to get across is that whatever was happening between her and Rick,

it did not change how she felt about her kids. So at around 830 that night, after they have this

conversation, she went inside and leaned down to kiss her daughter goodbye. And her daughter

Gretchen remembers her mom's necklace swinging as she did this. The number one mom pendant that

she and her brother Josh had gotten her for Mother's Day was like tapping her in the face.

Was it being 97? I can like close my eyes and see this happened. So Bonnie kisses her goodbye.

She walks out the door and drives off in her blue 1990 Mercury sable. And the mystery of what

happens next has plagued those who love Bonnie for 28 years. Now if Bonnie left her house, calm,

cool and collected. That mask had melted away by the time she got to the Hula Hands restaurant where

she met Anita and other co-workers. Because Anita says that when Bonnie shows up, she looked really

upset. Like Anita could tell that she'd been crying. So she hustled Bonnie to the bathroom so they

could talk in private and Bonnie told Anita that she just had this big fight with her husband Rick.

She told him she wanted to divorce. Rick said no. Which is that's not how that works. Right. And

Anita said that Bonnie looked so upset that she even asked if Rick hit her. But Bonnie said no.

Though she also told Anita that she didn't know what Rick might do.

Once Bonnie calmed down, they ate dinner with a few co-workers and then they went to that party where

they could see fireworks at a house that was owned by this woman that John was friendly with. Her

name was Phyllis. So they all stay at Phyllis's house until about 1230. And then that's when a small

group of them decide to move that party from the house to this bar that Phyllis worked at called

the Time Out Lounge. And it seems like they might have bopped over to another place first,

but like all in all, they were at the Time Out Lounge as it got close to closing time.

And we actually talked to Phyllis for this story. And it felt a little bit like we got to step

back into a time machine because guess where you can find her? She still tends bar at the Time Out

Lounge. And she told us that she remembers that night like it was yesterday.

Phyllis didn't know Bonnie all that well. She just knew her through John and they'd come in a

couple of times before. And she said Bonnie never drank much, maybe a beer, and things were like

par for the course that night. She wasn't at dinner, but by the time Bonnie got to her house,

she seemed fine as they watched fireworks and they all hung out at the bar. Now Anita told

investigators that she left the bar at around two or two thirty in the morning. And Phyllis said

that she called it quits not long after that just before closing time around with two forty five.

And when she called it quits, Bonnie and John were still hanging out. They actually had hung back

with some staff till about three thirty when it was very much like a you don't have to go,

but you can't stay here in a situation. The bar was like going to officially close up shop.

So when the final people trickled out of the parking lot, John and Bonnie were still there together

talking outside their cars. And that was the last time other people saw Bonnie. Less than five

hours later, Gretchen was waking up to a whole new reality. That morning when she came downstairs,

her dad was in the living room fully dressed, reading with the dog in his lap. It wasn't weird

that he was up before her, but you know it was a little out of the norm that he wasn't still in his

PJs. And when she asked where her mom was, her dad just said that she was probably at a friend's

house like no biggie. But it does feel odd when the day keeps slipping by without her there.

She doesn't show up to take Gretchen to the movie as planned. Josh gets back from the sleepover

that he was at by the afternoon, but Bonnie is still not there. So at five ten pm, Rick reports

her missing. A deputy from the Marion County Sheriff's Department goes to their house to take the

report on the fourth. He gets her vehicle information, but when he hears that they had been having

marital issues and they're talking about it before she leaves the house that night to go hang out

with friends, he might make some assumptions that Bonnie's just going to turn back up. I mean,

he literally says like basically call us if she does and then he leaves. So not knowing what else

to do, Rick tries to keep things as normal as possible for the kids. They go to their friend's house

to watch the fireworks as planned and Rick just tells the other people there that Bonnie had gone out

with friends. He doesn't mention that he had just reported her missing. Not to them. No.

Wait, do the kids at this point realize that she's missing? Like they would have seen the deputy show up.

We talked to Josh. He says that he doesn't remember the deputy coming to the house that Friday or his

dad reporting her missing. Which to me, like there is probably a world where he was trying to shield them

from all of that. Yeah. So Josh can't remember exactly how or what his dad told him in those first

few days. He just knows that he knew something was wrong by Saturday the next day for sure.

Now, no one calls or comes by the house on Saturday. So not knowing what else to do. That's when Rick

starts looking for contact numbers for people that Bonnie worked with. Specifically Anita,

since he knew that's who Bonnie was going out with that night. Yeah. Now it took him some back

and forth with Bonnie's boss Felix to get Anita on the phone. But when he finally does, she tells him

she has no clue where Bonnie was. She said they each headed home at like three o'clock in the

morning. Bonnie was fine then. Now we know this isn't the whole truth. But she wasn't about to tell Rick

that his wife hung back with John. But she at least calls John right after she gets off the phone

with Rick to see if he is with her. And he's like, no, he had no clue. He said that people couldn't

find her. And he hadn't seen her talk to her since they left the time out lounge. So since Anita is

saying that Bonnie was driving home, the last she saw her. Rick decides to go out and look for Bonnie

or her car that Saturday night. And then again with Josh first thing Sunday morning. And Josh says

that he remembers his dad seeming worried, but not overly frantic. They were just kind of looking

anywhere they could think of for her car or for any sign of her. But no matter how many streets

and parking lots they search there is just no sign of Bonnie. So that night, this is Sunday night

now. Rick calls her friend Diane, the one that she walks with. And he's calling her to tell her

that Bonnie's missing. Now it's about 7 p.m. when she gets that call. And she said she answered the

phone and Rick's voice is kind of shaky. And he he's just like, I'm just calling to tell you

that Bonnie's missing. Is this the first call she's getting about Bonnie? Yeah. So he didn't call

her at all before to see if Diane had seen her. No, she was. No, which like you would kind of think

right. But she says this is the first time she's finding out that nobody knows her Bonnie is.

It kind of feels like there's zero rhyme or reason as to who Rick is telling when he's telling

them what they're telling you. And like this all feels super weird. It gave Diane a bad feeling too.

And she said instantly she thought, quote, you son of a you killed her. You did something to her.

And quote, that's what she told us. Now Diane's husband told her, you know, you're just jumping

into conclusions. Bonnie is probably just staying with a friend or something. But she's like,

who, you know, like whose house would she be? He said she's been gone since Thursday.

It's Sunday now. He's just telling me never called and asked like, have you seen her? Is she

with you? Have you talked to her? Do you know where she is? Like never got that call. So her husband

telling her not to worry did not make her worry any less. Shock her. Yeah. She said that right then

she marched over to their house ready to confront Rick. But as she's going over there, she like

knocks on the door and it's Gretchen who answers, which like totally knocks her off her axis because

she like she forgot about the kids in all of this. And she's not about to interrogate Gretchen's

dad in front of her. So she decides to like tone it down a little bit and just like talk to him.

Except the conversation did not make her feel any better. So she says like, Rick, tell me what happened.

Tell me how things went down. And he goes, well, you know, she went out that night with some people

that she worked with. And apparently she was out until three o'clock when the bar closed and

she never came home. He told her that the lady she works with. I assume he's means Anita kept

calling him and saying she wanted to talk to the cops. Like, give me the cop that's involved. And

I'm guessing Anita wanted to tell someone what she knew above on. He's like real last movements,

but she still didn't want to tell Rick anything. But by the way, there is no cop involved. The sheriff's

office has still not called them back. A detective hasn't even been assigned to the case yet. But

that report the deputy took is just in like holiday weekend purgatory waiting for regular

business hours to start. Which is like wilds. Yeah. And like, I don't know, maybe fast track

the missing person. But so anyway, so he's telling Diane about Anita like blowing him up. And he

made a comment. He goes, you know, it's a holiday weekend. And nobody's going to find her car

or anything until after the holiday. Every place will be closed till Monday. So it's going to be

a few days before anybody even finds her car or sees her, you know, somewhere like behind a doctor's

office. That feels like a weirdly specific example. Diane says she just looked at him like,

what the hell man? Like, what what does that mean? Yeah. And then she said there was this other

moment when he was sitting in a chair, like looking down at his feet and all of a sudden he goes

and she is too stupid to even know how to use an ATM card, like meaning Bonnie. And she said her

eyes just went wide and her mouth like dropped open. Yeah. And he looks up from his feet and sees

the shock in her face. Like, what are you saying about your missing wife right now? And without

her actually like saying that a lot, he goes, oh, well, I mean, you know, she's just never used one

before. So she ends up leaving the house, not feeling any better than when she got there.

But also unsure what to do about her growing suspicions. So that's Sunday night. Monday is when

Bonnie's case finally gets assigned to a detective. And that person gives Rick a call to see if Bonnie

has come back yet. Glad that's the first course of action I got. He hasn't. And Rick tells them

he hasn't found anyone who has talked to her, seen her. And so this is when the detective starts

making more calls. Making more calls like, do they not go to the house and talk to Rick or the kids

maybe like poke around a little bit? No. And this is really frustrating for those looking back

on the case because there's a thousand little things that have been speculated like in all these

years since Bonnie went missing stuff that would probably be a whole lot more clear or definitive

if the early days of this case would have been handled differently. But it seems like day one

after being assigned the case, the Marion County detective is just making calls getting statements

from the people who were last with Bonnie like Anita who tells them how upset Bonnie was when she

showed up and she tells them the full story that she didn't tell Rick. That John was there with

them and Bonnie and John had been having an affair for a couple of months. She definitely did not

think that Rick knew and she says that she definitely didn't say anything to him when he called her

looking for Bonnie. And so she's admitting to investors that she lied to Rick that she didn't

want to tell him anything that would throw Bonnie under the bus. She said she didn't even tell him

where else they went that night. She just told him that she and Bonnie left the party at three

a.m. But the truth she tells investigators is that when she left at around 2 to 30 a.m. Bonnie was

still with John. But then she also tells them, listen like I call John, John has no clue where she is

so she's not with him. Which as you can imagine when the detective hears this, they want to talk

to John directly. And he confirms what Anita said that she left before he and Bonnie did and he

says that him and Bonnie stayed inside till around 3 to 30 a.m. And then after that they were

like chatting, kissing next to their cars in the parking lot for like an hour, he says.

And he says Bonnie mentioned to him this big argument that she had with Rick earlier that night

and that Rick told Bonnie he would fight a divorce. And he said they were also just generally

talking about other things like she said she was going to take her 10-year-old daughter to the movies

so that means as of like four in the morning she's still planning on becoming home that day.

Yeah and John says that after they were done talking, so this would be around like 445 in the morning.

Him and Bonnie get into their own cars to each head to their own respective homes. Now they didn't

live near one another but they did both need to travel west to get to their homes. So he says Bonnie

was following his car for part of the drive. And as they turn south out of the time-out lounge

parking lot, they would have been driving down Allysonville Road to 62nd Street.

Like this is all very familiar to us, we're like in this area all the time.

But they turn on to 62nd Street heading west and then at Compton Street that's when John needs

to turn off to get to his house. So at the light, he went into the left turn lane, Bonnie pulled up

next to him. He says he waved to her as he turned and then Bonnie continued straight towards her

house, which would have been like another 20 minutes away. But that he says is the last time he saw

her. Now I assume they talked to other people as well who were there that night but how long it

took to make contact with people and when exactly those conversations happened is a little TBD.

I just know that it's not until August 6th, a full month after Bonnie went missing that

investigators actually talked to Rick in person for a recorded interview that we actually got

a transcript of. Our records request from the Indianapolis Metropolitan Police Department was

Can I guess oh yeah denied always but Bonnie's son Josh actually had copies of this transcript

and shared them with us. We informed IMPD that we would be using this in our episode and asked if

we could have the recordings of this to at least if not play so you could hear him directly match

tone and inflection because I don't get the vibe of it. I don't want to misrepresent anything said

by Richard Schultz aka I mean whoever calls Rick I know we call him Rick his name's Richard

but again they denied that request so these sections of the transcript are going to be read by

voice actors and it may not reflect the exact tone. What is your name sir Richard E Schultz

what is your age 46 and do you know why you're down here this morning?

Questioning relating to the disappearance of my wife. All right sir one was last time you saw

Mr. Schultz had approximately 8 30 pm Friday or Thursday July 3rd okay who would you tell us

was there any discussions on July 3rd that evening or prior to her leaving? Yes there was

and what were those discussions? We had discussed as we had previously some situations in regards

to divorce. Now when you say situations that's a general term I need you to be specific

financial aspects I believe would be the best way to put about a divorce. All right sir how we

could her desire was to stay in the house with the kids and stay where fairly in the school systems

and we were happy with the school systems and what we could do to meet that wish is well as

provide some finances for me to set up a separate apartment or whatever if it came to that.

Did she in fact ask you to move out of the house for the future date under lie 3rd 1997

prior to leaving? She did not ask me to move out. Did you discuss previously with her about

you moving out? We had discussed previously about a possibility of either one of us moving out

and who brought that up? I think it was it was just a joint part of the conversation as to what

the possibilities were. The discussion about her moving out was primarily it would be easier

for me to obtain a mortgage to keep the house that would be probably for her but the point I

want to make about Friday's discussion was I was willing to procure the mortgage, allow her to

live in the house with the kids again as long as we were able to come up with enough finances that

I could set up a separate house. I was willing to make the payments so she could stay in the house with

the kids and I would move out as my indication of some willingness to compromise on these issues

so we could discuss intermediate steps to divorce rather than going to that final step right away.

Were you surprised when she talked to you about divorce? Very and when was the first time she

brought up divorce? I'd say the end of May sometime during the month of May a couple of months

prior to the beginning of July in that time frame. What was her reason for wanting a divorce

lack of sexual activity on my part? That was the sole reason and her fear of ending up being alone

and she defined alone as the fact that we had nothing in common. How did you take that? My reaction

was you know we had the same thing in common as most married people do. I mean we had children

our lives revolved around the children sporting activities school activities. I mean Bonnie was in

booster clubs for Josh's sports activities. She was in the PTA for Gretchen. She was a member of

the altar church. I had been the treasurer of the church. I've been a coach for literally. I

mean our lives just revolved around the kids so I mean to say we had nothing in common I thought

was a gross overstatement. Did it anger you? It bewildered me. I don't think it angered me.

In the whole month or two that lead up to the time of her leaving. I was trying to find out

you know what what caused her to come to these types of conclusions or whatever. I mean it was

what did she say? It was thrown out in a very matter of fact type of situation rather than again

apparent to me building up over time and she just said you know she was unhappy with some of the

things that were going on in her life. She felt underappreciated at times and by me and the kids

and again it was just about half a dozen herbs so conversations over that period of time trying

to find out what the source of all this was. It hit me out of the blue and the period of time

would be from somewhere in May to the beginning of July when she left but I don't remember the specific

date that she brought it up or whatever. It strikes me as it struck me as a very short period of time

from the time that she started to discuss the voice or displeasure to you know sometime in the

round of the first or middle of June saying well I just think that we to just get a divorce.

There are no answers well you know my own opinion there are intermediate steps to take before

we do that. I think that we could for counseling and try and find out if we can reconcile before

we go to divorce and what did she say to that? She didn't she didn't say very much. She's just

hung up on the divorce situation and again I tried to appease her to a certain degree by saying that

you know I think that there's a way we can financially handle. We wouldn't no matter which

direction we went we wouldn't lose the house and the kids living where they were or whatever which

I was hoping was a piece offering or whatever you want to call it to try to get her to discuss or

consider of the intermediate steps before the before divorce. Now I want to just jump in really

quick and compare this to what we actually know the timing makes sense so we know that the fight they

had in front of her family was around Easter the one where she's saying he doesn't do things that

other husbands do for their wives right. I'm sitting awkwardly watching it happen. So the idea that

like since May she has been saying she feels unappreciated by her family like that tracks. That

makes sense Easter spring. Yeah. May is right after and Rick says that he notices this strong shift

a couple of months ago so that lines up with what Anita has told police that like she's been seeing

John for like that amount of time and Rick is super honest about Bonnie having issues with a lack

of intimacy on his part which to me would be an easy thing to lie about but he doesn't. Yeah.

The thing that is a little TBD in this is his response to her wanting a divorce and it feels so

nuanced to me. So he's saying that like he just wants to figure it out like let's take some steps

first before we just like jump straight to divorce which feels reasonable but you have a need

of saying that Bonnie is super upset that night and Rick would not give her the divorce which makes

you want to say like oh he's lying but I will say that when police talk to their 10-year-old

daughter who was home that I gretchen she said she was watching them outside through the window as

they were like on the porch having this conversation she says it's like 15-20 minutes long and she

could tell that her mom was like a little upset just by the way she was talking. It was an intense

conversation. Yeah but she didn't necessarily even describe it as an argument like mom seemed upset

which like I don't think contradicts anything that Rick is saying. Right so let's just jump

back into the interview. Have you ever been physically violent towards her? Have you ever struck

her, pushed her, shoved her, held her tight against her will or anything at all? No. Never, ever, never.

When she asked you for a divorce did you think at any time during those three-month time period

and I know that's just a ballpark figure in the time frame think that there was another person in

their life, another male I did not. When she told you that you disappointed in the lack of sexual

activity, did you then think there possibly may be another male? I would, I probably, I probably

thought there was a possibility but I just still don't think so. I mean it's possible. Sure.

Well I need, I'm trying to find out what you're thinking. Did you consider another male? No.

At all. No. During that whole three-month time period you never considered that Bonnie may be having

a fair? I did not. Do you know any of her co- or did you know any of her co-workers prior to her

disappearance? No. Okay. So you know of no co-workers to address her phone numbers prior to her

disappearance? I did not. Again, this all tracks with what other people know. The way that Bonnie

explained things to Diane on their walk, it did not seem like Rick knew there was another man

and Anita and John are very clear and say that Rick did not know about the affair. I mean even

up until the point of Saturday when Rick is calling Anita looking for Bonnie. He's not asking about

another man. Right. Anita isn't offering that up. She is still covering for Bonnie. Right. He's

just asking specifically like about Bonnie. Not even like who they were. Where they were. Just

where they were. Yeah. Where they were when was last time he saw her. Which is what makes this next

part of the interview stand out to detectives. What time does Bonnie leave to lie third in 1997?

8.30 maybe 8.40 pm. Okay. Do you know where she's going specifically? No. She told me she was

going to a party a house party with Anita. When did you talk to Anita? I tried to call her a couple

of times during the afternoon on Saturday the fifth. I got no answer and no answering machine.

Her daughter called me back later that same afternoon indicating that she had gotten the number

off of caller ID type list. I don't have that feature so I don't know how it works.

And I asked her if Anita was there and she said she thought she'd gone to work. I asked her if

she knew where Bonnie was and she said she didn't know. And then after talking I believe it was

after talking to her Felix had returned my beat. I had beeped him and talked to him about the

situation. He had a manager from Regist call me later that evening like say in the seven o'clock

area on Saturday on Saturday from the job that Bonnie was supposed to be at. He indicated she was

not there. He indicated that Anita was. I asked him to have Anita call me. He said that he would

do that. She called a half an hour 45 minutes later. I asked her if she knew where Bonnie was.

She said no. She said they had left a time out lounge the night before around three and

I need you to speak up. You got quiet on me. Oh I'm sorry. I keep forgetting the name of the place.

The time out lounge name just gets me every time I bring it up.

Here this is the main reason I want to see this recorded interview so badly because

this is the moment detective still point to 28 years later the moment they believe Rick knows he

messed up. Sergeant Kissner with IMPD has viewed that tape and he says that you can read the words on

the page but what you cannot see is Rick's body language. He says meaning Kissner Kissner says

that Anita is very clear that she never told Rick where she and Bonnie had been when he called

on Saturday. According to her all she said was that they headed home around three a.m.

Full stop. So how would Rick know about the time out lounge? Kissner says that he and the

currently detective agree that you can see it in his demeanor that he realized he stepped in it.

And if Anita never told him where they were or anything more then this next part really doesn't

make sense. So Anita told you that they had left the time out lounge around three o'clock in the

morning. That's correct. Okay left about three o'clock in the morning. Yes so this was maybe

around eight on Saturday evening. I got in the car. I drove to the time out lounge. I went

across eighty six street so you knew where the time out lounge was. I looked it up in the phone book.

Okay or I I believe or Anita may have told me. I don't remember how I found out where it was.

Okay I drove over there going east on eighty six street to Allisonville. I found the place

came back through broad ripple on sixty second street around eight thirty quarter to nine on Saturday

night. It's very busy. There are lots of people on the street and lots of cars and I did not see

anything. Sunday morning at five o'clock Josh and I got up and went to try to retrace those

same steps and we went. How do you know to go through broad ripple? You went to eighty six to

Allisonville road and you found the time out lounge. Why would you not go back the same way that you

went? Well I didn't see anything on the way over. Why I mean why go back the same way. I was

trying to figure out as many possible ways that you would come home. Did you go four sixty five?

No I did not but you went to eighty six three to go to sixty seconds on the way back through

broad ripple. Yeah why? I mean if you're looking for how she would go home I would think that you

would cover all of your bases. Well why didn't you go four sixty five? Because at that point in time

the police reported and filed and I I assumed that it would be if the car would have been seen

along four sixty five it's much more heavily traveled than some of these other areas. So you go

out eighty six but you come back sixty seconds. What's the interest coming back on sixty

seconds? It's just a different possible route. I was going to try as many as possible. Are those

the only two that you tried that evening? Yes. Okay. And as I indicated we got up early

Sunday morning my son and I and we went I I need to told me I believe on I don't remember when

it was the first phone call or the second one that she had seen her heading west on sixty

second street. I need to told you that she saw Mr. Schultz when you say her. Yes heading west

on sixty second street from the time out lounge. At what time? At three or three thirty when they

left the bar. I need have said she saw her. Yes. Your wife didn't need to say anybody else

with them. She did not. She said they were there along. I get why investigators are suspicious.

Yes we know from John that Bonnie took sixty second street home and that the last place he saw her

as they waved goodbye. But how would Rick know that? I mean he's saying he's checking all the routes

right? Sure. But then he doesn't? Like sixty second street is the one that he calls out specifically

to investigators and later in the interview he explains well you know like she was most

familiar with this route because of like X Y and Z reasons which all the reasons were valid.

And in 1997 this is a time before Google Maps so like I kind of get that gut instinct off the back.

But you've been down sixty second street before. A million times. It turns into broad ripple avenue

which has like this strip of restaurants and bars where like all the college kids go or like at

least use to I don't know what's cool these days. And it is very busy on. So he says his reason

for not checking for sixty five which is one of our major highways is that like oh well if there

was an accident then police would have seen that. But like if that's your reasoning I'm pretty sure

the same can be said for that area. And like sure that busy road doesn't stretch all the way to her

house like check the whole route find whatever but check more. Yeah so why doesn't he?

Like the feeling everyone says they get is that it's like he knew what route she took home.

And if he knew then there are only a couple of options. One Anita misremembered and she actually

did tell him or let it slip and he had more to go off of. Or two and the theory that police

seemed to be hinting at is that Rick followed Bonnie that night. And it wasn't just the fact that

he knew her route home that made them think that it's something that John ends up telling them later on.

Sergeant Kissner says that in subsequent conversations with John he ends up telling investigators like

hey you know looking back on it I had this gut feeling that somebody was watching us that night

before we left in the parking lot at the timeout lounge. And then he tells them about another

instance prior to that in which they were leaving the lounge and he saw a car pull out behind Bonnie

and it was actually following her. But he got stopped at the light so he wasn't able to follow it

or confirm like his suspicions and obviously that time she was fine so he didn't really think

anything of it until now of course. But now now isn't like not the first time they talk to him.

This is after when I'm sure everyone is kind of side eyeing getting suspicious of Rick.

Correct. And to be clear there is nothing detectives have told us that gives any insinuation that

it's Rick specifically he felt was the one watching. Right. Just like just someone feeling watch. Yeah.

And I actually have a bit of a hard time believing that it was Rick who followed her before.

If someone was in fact following her because that would mean that he would have been behind her

like got home after her or at least right at the same time as her. And in all the conversation she

had with friends and coworkers she never said that Rick had followed her and she still thought he

didn't know about John. So like it feels like if John was picking up on that vibe he would have

I think it's like if someone had followed her before. If someone was following her it was the same

person both times. I just don't she would have she would have known it was her husband. She

would have known that he knew about the affair and I feel like other people would have heard about that.

Anyways I don't know how much stock you can put in a feeling in hindsight. What investigators

feel like they can put stock in is a polygraph. And both John and Rick readily agree to them. One

passes, one fails. What's your guess? I mean I'm assuming that John passes at Rick fails. You are

correct. Which only bolsters their suspicions. And did the police talk to the kids at any point?

Like Gretchen we know was home that night. She's 10. Right Josh was at a sleepover but yeah she was

home all the time. Yeah she remembers the conversation that was like at least 10s but what next?

Like was dad there? Like does she remember him leaving? This should be easy to figure out. Yeah

she's like old enough to like be aware right? Yeah and yes they do talk to the kids but I think they

kind of do it in this like a little bit like shady boots way like don't love. So in the first

interview that they have or the first recorded interview they have with Rick they ask him if

they can interview the kids and he's like yes of course they ask if they can talk to them alone

and at first he's like yes but then eventually he says you know what you can talk to Josh alone

but like I want to be there when you talk to Gretchen. Which like she's only 10. Her mom is

missing like he's six. Josh is 16. Josh is like 15. Yeah so like I refuse to fault him for

wanting to be there for his 10 year old who whose mom is missing. For sure whatever but they just

kind of go behind his back like one day they show up at the house at a time when Rick isn't home

and they talk to the kids without him there. Is that even legal? Right okay so I was like

they're minors and he explicitly said he wanted to be there when you talk to Gretchen like this

feels pretty black and white to me and so like I was so like twisted up about this that we even

asked the sergeant Sergeant Kissner about this. Now he wasn't the one who who did this and went

to the house in 97 obviously. I'm like are we good with this and he said it wasn't a formal

interview with the kids like it wasn't recorded or anything so he said detectives felt like Rick

was being controlling so this was their attempt to try and see if the kids might mention something

offhand like if their dad wasn't over them. Which like still didn't get my answer so I like he's

saying it's gray. Well he was just saying like I understand why they did it so then I went to

our lawyer crystal and I'm like no but like on paper is this legal and she said it actually is it

is legal for police to talk to minors without parental consent in Indiana and just like sergeant

Kissner said crystal said that if the parent is a suspect police would have an interest to do this

reason to do it. Yeah to do it outside of their presence to avoid any kind of like coaching or

intimidation. So all of that to say they do end up talking to the kids solo. Now Josh can't tell

them much because he wasn't home that night and Gretchen tells them a lot of the same stuff her

dad and Bonnie's friends said about what her mom was last wearing which was a light tan purse,

sandals, navy pants, a striped like light and dark blue type shirt, a herringbone necklace,

wedding ring, gold watch and Gretchen remembers something else that her mom was wearing too that

number one mom necklace the one that was like right in her face we talked about as her mom kissed

her goodbye and then there's this moment where I have to imagine the energy in the room shifts

for detectives. Sergeant Kissner wasn't there he just read about this so he doesn't know exactly

how it unfolded but apparently at some point while they're there Gretchen goes up to her mom and

dad's bedroom and she comes downstairs and she presents them the number one mom necklace

and she tells the detectives that it was in a different spot than where her mom normally

keeps it. That just gave me like the most full-body chills. I mean is this Gretchen's way of like

telling them something like hinting at something? I don't know what this is but we did get confirmation

from the police that this is the item that has been referenced online and in reporting but never

actually named until now they actually approved us releasing this information like this is the

item everyone talks about that she supposedly like I guess they said the kids said she was never

without it I don't know what that means but it was this necklace. Now we really wanted to speak

with Gretchen ourselves for this reporting but she wasn't up for it because in my mind I'm like you

it's been so many years since this happened what if Bonnie wasn't wearing the necklace that night

like what if we're misinterpreting old reports like this either means everything or we are missing

a piece and this actually means nothing like what if her mom took it off real quick like I was talking

to our director reporting and she was like oh yeah there's like plenty of things I have where I'm like

oh my god I love this I'm never gonna take it off. I have a very specific pair of earrings that

may insisted she get for my birthday and I have worn them. Exactly in front of her. Yeah right

seeing me wear them. Our other producer Miela said that her mom has a box of stuff that's literally

like a box of this stuff that like kids make and you're like this is or like give you because they

love it and they like think you love it too. I know I can imagine as a mom like literally making

sure it dangles and it's Josie in the face she's like nose I'm wearing it you know what I mean

and then like just drop it somewhere the place I don't normally put it because I'm about to head out

the door. Well and with that in mind like did anybody see her wearing it when she went out that night

like it's a girl again I can picture this necklace this is a distinct kind of necklace in the 90s

so this is what kills me apparently her shirt had a really high neckline so nobody remembers seeing

any necklaces. I mean people talk about her wearing that hearing bone necklace so that might have

been outside but no one mentions this one. Yeah and since her like chest isn't exposed you can't

prove that she wasn't wearing it like underneath this like high neck shirt. Now even though we

couldn't talk to Gretchen we did talk to Bonnie's son Josh for this episode we asked him about this

necklace and you know he wasn't there when she left the house obviously so he couldn't speak to

that but I didn't know if maybe he remembered this moment when Gretchen like gives them this or if

he and Gretchen ever talked about this after but like whatever this big significant moment was

two detectives was not that for him because he says he does not remember it. What about any other

family members? Did anybody else bring this up? I mean you said she had sisters like no one? No

we didn't get to speak to her sisters in our reporting like they did help verify some facts for

us but they didn't want to have like long conversations about this like it's still just too painful

but we did have a really long conversation with Bonnie's brother so that's Mike and you know it's

interesting like I think it's so easy for us as reporters crime junkies listening to be like oh

what this was me in a situation like I would bulldoze my way through people until I got the answers

I needed oftentimes that is not what real life looks like in the very early days like her siblings

weren't even really in contact with police they were kind of getting what little update they could

from Rick in the first like week or so so he's actually the one who does eventually call them

and tell them that Bonnie's missing but kind of like he called Diane a little bit later he did the same

with them he calls them on the sixth and at the time they're like well do we need to come down

do we need to get it from us yeah he's like no no no don't come search I'm sure she's gonna be back

and at that time they were really not suspicious of him at all but after like a week of Bonnie being

gone they're finally like you know what like we're coming down from Wisconsin to help look for her

and that was the following Friday so Mike and his sisters drive through the night they get to Rick's

place at like 5.30 in the morning and ring the doorbell they're obviously there with like

backs and stuff right like they don't know how long they're gonna be there but the hope is that

they're gonna stay till they find their sister but Mike says that when Rick opens the door his

first words are something like oh you're saying the night yeah Rick we're staying the night and

the night after that and the night after that and the night until Bonnie comes home it was just odd

but like whatever they brushed it off everyone is in a weird place right now and for the next two

days everyone just divides and conquers Mike and Rick go in one car looking for Bonnie Josh and

another uncle go in another car and they just drive and drive all day looking for her or the car

and that goes on until eventually like the family members from Wisconsin they have to go home because

no cars found there's no crime scene and they felt like there was nothing else they could do and they

all had jobs and families that they had to go back to like time does not stop when you have a

missing family member I tell people this all the time and still even in that moment they go home

not thinking Rick did anything so he's out there he's looking for his wife and the kids are

standing beside him had Bonnie's family always had a pretty good relationship with Rick like

families could be different and blending them could be interesting yeah I mean he's what have been

in their family for like 26 years now so like and listen Rick for sure had his quirks or like kind

of just like one big cork really and I heard this from several people that we talked to Rick did

not like to lose racquetball cards whatever he was a very sore loser like his whole mood would

shift if he didn't win and like in a way where it's not just like it affects everybody yes yeah yeah knowing

got about him I wonder if he viewed losing his marriage in the same way like divorce would be him

losing his wife not winning at marriage or him like losing her to some I mean he says he didn't know

about the fair but anyway so that's the relationship it was a fine relationship there was this is one

weird thing about play games with Rick pretty much it was started to the point where they're like let's do

anything yeah so anyways they go back to Wisconsin and eventually detectives do start reaching out

to interview them and the first was detective Michael Kelly and it seems like he might really

be the first one to introduce them to the idea that Rick might have something to do with this

and Bonnie's brother Mike says that detective Kelly tells them about the whole number one mom necklace

which was odd and detectives tell them that they even collected this necklace not to like process

it as evidence they actually had a psychic look at it but eventually Rick wanted it back or something

wait did the psychic see anything oh nothing that they think is important whatever psychic they took

it to they felt like the necklace had been broken like that's all really that came of it but it

definitely wasn't broken when they had it and then they didn't do any kind of exam to try and

track down and see if it was like repaired or anything like I I think they kind of just like

wrote it off but again Rick like once it backs they eventually give it back to Rick but

here's the interesting thing that detective Kelly says he says that when he meets up with Rick

to give it back Rick says something to him and learning what he said flips the switch for Bonnie's

brother Mike according to him detective Kelly said that when he met Rick to give him this necklace

he had to meet him out in public he hands it back to him and before detective Kelly gave it back

like right before Rick asked him if he was wearing a wire detective Kelly told him no and so he

hands the necklace back and then Rick told him that he will never figure this out that is the

thing that finally changed Mike's mind about what happened to his sister and he's super transparent

he's like look I'm taking detectives word for it I can't prove that that even happened

but he's like why would a detective lie to me about this yeah and from that moment on it's been

different and that permeates through Bonnie's side of the family making them view everything in this

new light like why did he wait days to call why didn't he want them to help come look right then

that first weekend why would he be surprised that they showed up with bags when they came and then

his sister Sue Bonnie's sister Sue remember something now that's chilling to her she says when they

first showed up at Rick's house Rick had on different glasses then like he normally would wear and

she's like oh like new glasses Rick and he says no these are my old ones my other ones broke

and she also noticed that there was a scratch on the side of his face like next to his eye where like

the arm of the glasses would connect to the rims but before you say anything let me say two things

to circle all the way back to your original question did the family ever grill Gretchen about

the necklace no one of Bonnie's sisters really tried to keep a relationship with the kids which

hard to do if you're coming in hot and everyone else just thought that they were really taking their

dad's side and there became this like huge rift in the family like they didn't want to make things

harder on the kids and they were kids like they're not going to grill them when they're already

dealing with the trauma of their mom being missing especially when the grilling would have been about

their dad and then number two to hop back to the glasses and the possible cut I'll ask this question

again is it everything or is it nothing because we asked the current detective about this I'm sorry

like was there a cut on his face and broken glasses that was notable feels like we should be

talking about this and the current detectives say there is zero mention in the responding deputies

note about a cut on Richard's face and by responding deputy you mean from the department who took

the weekend off before assigning a detective and then didn't actually talk to a rickian person

for like what like a month or didn't do the recorded interview for a month but yeah and this

is what I mean about how the lack of an investigation in this case I think hinders both ways if

he did have that cut they missed their chance to take photos and to add that as evidence if there

wasn't a cut and this is just bad memories or whatever or it happened after Bonnie was missing

also no proof of that yeah and Rick can never prove that he didn't have a cut because no one

did anything but now he is paying for it by being under this cloud of suspicion yeah but I mean

I feel like maybe he should be under a cloud of suspicion yes but only if the investigation was

thorough and this is the drum beat that I heard so loud and clear from Bonnie and Rick's son Josh

he said he is willing to accept that his dad did something if they can just show him that his dad

did something he's like you don't think I want to know if my dad murdered my mom of course I want to

know but what's not fair to do is like a half-ass investigation and then point the finger at the

only parent they have left make them wonder if the man they live with and love is a killer you know

really mess with their heads but not be able to give them any specifics right because there are none

where did this happen when did this happen how did this happen the idea that they can put forward

this very vague theory that just points to their dad because they say he had motive but also

acknowledge that there are all these holes and look past all those holes because the holes were

put there by them and the lack of investigation and yet not give their dad any breaks that is what

is like both to them so he's like look I'm willing to also accept that he looks the most guilty out

of everyone if you dug in harder and actually looked at everyone but they didn't even do that

and that's what we tried to do and I do think there is an entirely different side to this story

that hasn't been told so if you're feeling sure about yourself now hang on because I have an

entire part two of Bonnie's story that is full of surprises contradictions and new theories about

what could have happened to Bonnie Lee Schultz that 4th of July morning back in 1997 now anyone

who's part of the Crime Junkie fan club doesn't have to hang on you can go listen to that episode

right now in our Crime Junkie app ad free and for everyone else you will get part two next Monday

we'll see you then

you can find all the source material for this episode on our website crimejunkie.com

and don't forget if you want part two of Bonnie's story right now you can join the fan club

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