MONDAY SUPPLEMENT | Sky Sports’ Tom White On Sunderland’s FA Cup Exit

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Hello everyone and welcome to how are the podcasts? It's Gavin, you join us this fine Monday morning

as we're here to mull over the fallout from Sunlands exit and the FA Cup on Sunday afternoon at

hands of lowly port veil, a port veilside who everybody said, well, the bottom of the league one

aren't you? You should be going there and winning and of course Sunland being Sunland didn't.

So we are here to date a talk rather negatively about that, but I'm hoping after a night of sleep

we're feeling a little more well rounded maybe about the follow from the game. I don't know,

I've just been for a dog walk and listen to the reaction pod from yesterday and listen to what

the lads had to say and I'm amazed they were that measured after the game. But yeah, let's see

where this one goes today. We haven't got any real plan in starting off. I will introduce our first

guest today at Martin. Hello, mate. Hello, Gav. Yeah, these sort of the morning after pods are usually

a more considered sort of chat about the game on. You've had a bit of time to sleep on and

stay on it and figure things out and almost get accepting of whatever has happened, but I'm not

sure that's the case today for me. I think I've gone from being utterly disappointed.

It's half past three in the morning or whatever it was and after a couple of hours of sleep

even more probably even more annoyed than I was at the end of the game.

Well, we'll get into that. Also join us today as a very special guest. Someone who's not

been on in a little while so he's got to say it's Tom White. Hello, mate. Hello, I've chosen a

bad time. Really, I was quite confident when you asked me that at least I'd be talking about

a win and the excitement of the quarter final draw and maybe even Wembley, maybe even winning a

trophy. Sadly, that's not the case. Yeah, and you didn't even get to go either because you were

telling me when we were chatting the other day that if it had been Bristol City, you would have

been there. I was probably the only someone that wanted Bristol City. In hindsight, I wanted

them too. We might have won. Yeah, we could have gone to that one. We couldn't go to Port Vale and

you're right in hindsight. I think everybody now wishes Bristol City won.

Do you know what it is? That's not a bad place to start, Martin. Honestly, I think we'd have had

a better chance at beating Bristol City because every sort of little marginal game that Port Vale

would make work in their favour that they did and we'll get into things like attitude and

application and stuff as this goes on. But honestly, it wasn't a nice place to go to

and they really made it work for them and I think that's going to cloud the whole sort of

performance really from a sudden perspective as that. We just didn't turn up. We didn't

want it as much as they did. We didn't fight as much as they did. I felt like maybe if we didn't

make excuses outwardly, I didn't really hear many people after the game from a playing perspective,

the coaches or whatever, coming out and talking about the pitch as a problem or the amount of injuries

as a problem. But I think internally there must have been some sort of feeling like,

do we have to be here? Like, oh, this pitch has crap. We haven't got this play. We've got that

play because it shouldn't have performance. We were so flat. Oh, look, you can put to one side,

I think, the things around the game like the pitch. Look, the pitch was crap, right? The pitch

was awful. In the show with compilations, isn't there different? Yes, I did. I was coming

feeling bouncing here and there and everywhere. The pitch was crap. I would say,

for both sides, obviously, they'd be playing a little bit more familiar with it. But regardless

of that, we could have played them on the beach. And as players, our team is so much better than their

team. We should beat them. If I were at a huge right, we should beat them. And you bang on the team

as a whole, that would include every single player who got in the pitch and the coach and sub of it.

They just did not look as if they were wanting to be there. They did not put the effort in.

That's the minimum expectation to go and win a game of football. And as supporters, you can,

you forgive a lot, don't you? If you can say the efforts there, you forgive a lot, you go, okay,

we've given the right we go. The pitch has been the blame that, whatever, you can accept the

result and now come like we had yesterday. But I am so disappointed with the fact that we went

then put in such an abysmal performance. And it was such a good opportunity to get to the

latest stage as the FA Cup to potentially win it. Because, you know, it's sad happening

through. There's other teams through that. You fancy playing at home, so you can take them on

and getting through the semis. And if you got through at that point, then who knows what happens?

But we just did not look as if we were wanting to be there. We just looked as if we thought

we could turn up and just turn them over. And I don't think any single person involved yesterday

would quite happily go back to kickoff and do exactly the same thing. I think every single one

of them would want to go and redress the balance because I don't think anybody could be happy

with what the point of that game yesterday. Yeah, what's your thoughts then Tom, just haven't

had a night to stew on it? Are you anymore sort of measured? Are you just as angry as us?

No, I think that the first word you get was frustrating because it was a real missed opportunity.

You do get the word embarrassing just because if a Premier League club goes out, the

team will not believe what it is embarrassing. And it's a big story and people are laughing at you.

So that's two two emotions there. But the other one I am actually a little bit worried. I've

been worried about this for a while is we don't seem to create any chances. And when that happens

in the Premier League, that's all right. You're in the Premier League, the way we are at the moment

until we are fully established in the Premier League, we're going to have to focus more on

defence than attack. That's right. That's the right thing to do and it's working. But that's now

Oxford away in the championship club. Poor Vale away, but Malibu won. And I can't think of many

chances in those two games. And that that worries me because against that level of opposition,

we should create more. If you think yesterday, my ender, his header that was deflected on the

post early on, if he scores that, I guarantee that we have a very, very comfortable Sunday afternoon.

That didn't go in and I can't really remember much else other than that. There wasn't a lot.

And that's the thing that's worrying me. I think that's a really good point. And yeah, you can

kind of excuse it in the Premier League because you're playing up against some really good players

and you just expect that first season back in the Premier. Well, yeah, you're going to focus on

solidity, but you're possibly touching on something that's correct there. Tom and that, it is,

or it has, bled into the cup performances because we're just, we were at times just like,

I think the big frustrating thing for me was a half time I'm sitting there going,

why aren't we shooting? Why aren't we just getting shots off? Like get around the box and shoot.

It's a really basic principle tactic approach to make like, if Ox, I don't really call them Ox,

are there, if Port Veil are coming in their own box or around their own box and making a

difficult for us to cut through them, why are we then still playing triangles out wide, why are

we not getting it from defence in the midfield back to defence? Why is nobody just taking the initiative

and shooting? And I think it was about 40 seconds in the second half-Martin that told me I had a

shot like that. It was out a note. It felt like someone had went a half-time. If you get within

25 yards, have a go. And I thought, all right, we've clearly thought about this a half-time

the same way we have, but then I don't think after that, we had another shot from range, maybe

one DRMA, maybe I think I'd one, but it was so frustrating to watch because it's Tom's kind of

alluded to there. We're not talking about like a top-class defensive shot out from Port Veil.

We made it so easy, so easy. I mean, there was no invention to our creative player whatsoever.

I think actually something we were trying to be too clever and just overplay it. And we weren't

just overplaying it. It was slow and you can't knock the ball around quick on a surface like that.

And I'm coming away from it and I've wrote about this for the website today, but I don't get that.

It feels like we were just blind to what we were walking into, which I don't get because all the

talk from Tuesday onwards was about that pitch, was about the conditions, was about, right,

if you're going to go there, it's going to be difficult to play on. And yet, and actually,

I'm not a massive Robbie Savage fan as I commentate there, but he called so much right during the

game. He was pointing this out like I was seeing it. It was like, it was like if I was on

commentary, I'd be saying these things and he was talking about, he was going like, why are you

suddenly knocking this around the defence? Why are they trying to play out? He couldn't get his

head around it. And I'm watching and I'm going, yeah, he's banged on, but surely we knew this

walking into the game. Surely we knew in the prep for this game when they got into the

meeting room at the Academy of Light and they were doing all their video analysis as a group.

They were going, all right, look at the state of the pitch on Tuesday night against Bristol City.

Look at the way that they struggle to move the ball around. We're probably going to have to

abandon some of our principles, go front a bit more, be a bit more direct, shoot from range,

test the young goalkeeper who's on loan, I think from, I think it was Evan or something. He's from

a preem team, but he's only young in these very inexperienced. Test him, give him problems,

and then say where we go from there. It's not going to be our usual game, but unfortunately because

of the conditions we're going to have to do this. And it almost felt to me like we just went,

ah, we'll just treat this like any other game. We'll play exactly like we do every week. And

I mean, it was so wrong and it didn't feel like at any point during the game, we actually

addressed it. We went on till the eight, well, sorry, it was probably the 85th minute when we

eventually put ball out of front to try and win some flickons that we actually looked like we

were trying to change something. And it was just such a underwhelming and flat approach to the game,

which I can't get me head around. Well, as Tom said earlier, you kind of wonder whether we actually

can change us with the squad that we've got or with the approach that we have. And I think

I kind of understood the logic of the thinking behind playing around behind the back, because

we're obviously trying to suck them out to try to hit them over the top like we do with every game,

right? And that's our style of play. We try to get people on the counterattack.

It's how the brisk plays. That was never going to work. Was it? Yes, it was never going to work

against that opposition and on that sort of pitch. And, you know, we've, we always have had problems

in the past couple of seasons, playing against teams who will just sit and let us come at them.

We struggled to break them down. Now, it's a really hard thing to do in football. I think you've

got to have some fantastically good players to be able to do that. But if you look at the players

that we've got in the pitch yesterday compared to their players, we've got some fantastically good

players. You've got people like the fear who can slide the ball through an iron needle and get

a set somebody up. We've got some good wide players, low the wide areas were a bit murky. And

you're in the first half, I couldn't sound why we kept going down the left hand side,

where it was an absolute mud bath. And the right hand side was all right in comparison. But we kept

going down the left and down the left and tried to get something down there. And you're going,

why don't we just focus the player down the right and try to exploit that because it looked a bit

better. And there were a couple of instances where D.R. I got down the right hand side in the first

half and he put a ball across at my end. It should have been absolutely bust and as good to get

on the end of and he didn't get on the end of it. And it's just whether we can actually do that

with the the setup that we have in the style of play that we have. You know, we haven't seen

a lot of the brisk talks about solving problems. He's he's good. It does a little tactical shifting

in game isn't normally. But we've never seen a vastly different approach to a game than he

is sort of stock standards way of playing. And yes, they need a different approach. You know,

you've got two young rats big sent forwards on the bench. Why don't you chip one of those on for

that? Well, me too, rather than bringing his door on, who's, you know, struggling to be kind

at present. He's struggling to make an impact on on the game. You're two young sent forwards

there who haven't made a debut for us. He would be absolutely desperate to make an impression.

Chuckles to one for half an hour or the second half. One of which who's scoring a lot of goals

for the only 21 to source confident just being called free. Yeah. So I just thought there was

absolutely nothing to lose by doing that. Correct. And we just kept trying to do the same bloody thing

over and over again. And for whatever reason, and I do think a massive bit of it was attitude and

the desire to go and do it. We just didn't ever look really like breaking down. We had a few

little bits where it might have dropped to somebody and we could have stabbed it in. But really,

we just didn't threaten. And it's, it's such a disappointing game, isn't it? From the performance

point of view, I reckon, like, if you take into account that we're we're out and we're there,

right? I reckon that's a worst game we've had since that bolt and 6.0. I can't think of a worst

game in terms of the outcome that you'd expect from us. Yeah. Performance wise, I think it was

terrible. And like, it was just so frustrating because we didn't try to change it. And the

band in the head go, why aren't we just doing something a bit different? Why aren't we going

long? Why aren't we chuking a couple of subs on? Why have you just kept trying to do the same thing,

the same thing, the same thing where it's evidently not working. And it was just made for such a

belief for straight and watch. They in terms of the subs, I'd bring the young players on. I see

what you mean, but there's a lot of a lot of people since full time have been and even walking

into work this morning. People saying, why did Sunland not play their best team? I'm having to

correct everybody and list the injuries and say, remember that human sediki were suspended. So

actually, if you look at the team from the leads game, it wasn't much different at all. There's

only that I was I thought that I thought that Shaka might be ready to play my maybe, you know,

75 minutes or something. Obviously, that's not the case. We wouldn't know about that because that's

to do with them, the kind of medical side of thing, medical side of things. But we really did put

the strongest team out we could with that exception. So bringing on the players who were also

more regular first team players. I do understand that. I do understand it because we would have been

criticized for bringing on the youngsters for not taking the FA Cup seriously. When I'm

being defend the since full time saying that, you know, actually, we did, we did play the strongest

team we could. But I think Tom, like the start and 11 and I have seen people criticize the

brisk for the start and 11. I don't know what else he could have done. Like he's literally

the only question mark with Shaka. And that's obviously, as you say, it's obviously a medical

thing why he hasn't started. So I don't think you're going to attach any criticism to the start and

11. But when you get to that point, 10 minutes after half time, and it's not happening. And,

you know, with the best world in the world, you've got people like Chris Rigg, my ender who

have been on the fringes to some extent in the first team. They're not first team regulars

who are really struggling to get into the game and making an impact. I just don't think there's

anything that lose by chucking a couple of young lads on just saying, you go, you go for us,

see if you can get something out of us. It doesn't even have to be 10 minutes after half

time. Just at any point to try and show that we're trying something that we're trying to be

different. I think it wasn't just the, we're talking specifically about Garagussian and Abdelay.

Two young lads who nobody knows anything about. So, you know, there's nothing to lose in

bringing them on when the game is clearly not going our way. I mean, Portfield's fans,

they knew what was coming. The atmosphere was building in that last 10, 15 minutes and they just,

they had the same feeling where he did it, which just wasn't Sunday. It was their day. And

with regards to Granite Chakra, I'm really interested with this one because obviously there's a

reason why he didn't start the game. But it took till the 83rd minute to get him on the pitch.

By which point, you're like, well, how much of an impact can he really have on this? And he

didn't have an impact. He come on and he was doing what he normally does. He was taking ownership.

He was getting on the ball. He was trying things which didn't always work. It was like a passing

at my end, which went out for a goal, kicking things like that. But he was trying to at least force

the issue. But I'm, I'd love to know why he took till 83 minutes to get him on because by that

point, I was just thinking, well, it's not our day to day. Like, and he come on far too late.

But there was, yeah, he was restricted in what he could do. And in the squad, when you look at

the team that we had, right? I mean, yeah, totally agree. Basically, the team we played was all we

could play. But I was, I was looking at this and I was trying to work out. And this isn't

me making excuses, by the way. But it probably does to some extent, Tom, explain maybe the attitude

over the 90 minutes or so, because I think Siddiqui is such a hard working player with a great

attitude. Hum is one of the leaders of the group with a great attitude, hard working. I wouldn't

have any qualms about Trae Hume putting a shift in on a shit pitch. Shatter obviously not starting

and basically not being in the game at all. Renildo, we've been missing for a while a big leader.

Mugaly, a big leader. Brobe, a physical player who probably would have coped fairly well in a

physical battle against AFL defenders. We are, we're missing quite a lot of players who I would see

you can count upon. And this was something that was talked about the other week. I think they're

breast even taught about it. Didn't he? When he was on about, I'm referring to a conversation.

I was privit, so I probably should explain myself here. But Gisalfi was at the atmosphere,

a group meeting a couple of weeks ago. And he was talking about how in the absence of some of the

leaders in the group, people like Ballard and Lafeire have to step up and be a big voice on the pitch.

And this has been a bit of a worry of mine is in the absence of a lot of these players in recent

weeks. I'm looking at that team on Sunday afternoon. You've got Enzo Lafeire, Aldiretti,

O'Neil and Ballard, her Trouder are the experienced ones. Yet there wasn't anybody grabbing the

game by the scruff of the neck and taking control of a situation that was going out of our control.

I just didn't feel like they did that. And when you look around the pitch, my end at Angulo,

Talbi, Rig, Diara, Elborg, they're all kids. And another point on attitude before I actually

come to you on this, Tom. But it was mentioned on commentary about the back pass from

O'Neil and Elborg. And they're both laughing and joking about it. And it's like, no, that's not

funny. And it just felt an all-point to me like the attitude was all wrong during the game.

From start to finish, attitude was poor. There was no real leadership. And how'd you address that?

But on the O'Neil thing, by the way, he was kind of getting a lot of blame from the commentators

for the fact that we conceded. And that was the kind of start. There was a lot of opportunities

to get the danger clear between that back pass on the goal going in. So I think that was

a bit harsh on O'Neil. But when you say the laughing and joking, we all remember the famous

Kevin Ball Tackle at St. James Park, where the ball ends up hitting our own bar, or its sorenessy

we all remember that when Kevin Ball tells that story and everyone who was on the pitch tells that

story, they were all saying to him, as they're about to defend a corner, that it's the funniest thing

they've ever seen. So if we can laugh about that and say, that's funny, we can't really have too

much of a go at O'Neil and at Elborg for laughing at that. But nothing should have come from that.

We should have been able to defend that. We had chances to, from that corner and onwards before

the goal going in. In terms of leadership, I think from the outside, I think we've got loads of

leaders. But I see what you mean yesterday. It was as though nobody really knew who was in charge.

It's I don't really know what Akari put my finger on why that is. Because from the outside,

if you listed them there, you've got Shack as a leader. Obviously, he's our club captain.

Nuko 9 was our club captain and wears the arm band a lot when he plays. I know Trey Hume wasn't

playing, but he's captain Ballard is definitely a leader. I do think that Ballard was trying to

take the game by the scrum for the neck, but how can you do that when you're one meal down trying,

trying to go for a goal, trying to get an equaliser and push forward. He's our centre back.

And okay, he did end up going up front, which I suppose is part of it. But I do think that I don't

believe that we're lacking leaders, but I can't put my finger on why it didn't work yesterday in that

regard. Right, well, I think we'll quickly jump for a break and then when we come back, we'll

vent a little bit more. There's plenty more to go for a chestier, so we'll see you in a minute.

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Chicago Illinois. Welcome back to how we're the podcast. Just before the Brita Martin, Tom and I

would discuss in the attitude, the collective leadership of the team that was out on the pitch at

Portville. I just get your thoughts on this really, because like I say, it was a bit of a split

between young lads and more experienced players that you would potentially count as leaders, but

that I think I honestly think a Portville sensed we were lacking something going into the game.

I mean, they had nothing to lose. You're watching their manager on the sidelines. They's animated,

he's screaming, he's clapping every single tackle, he's punching the air when the winning second balls

and things like that. I just think they sensed that there was an opportunity here. We give enough

of an impression in that first 10 minutes to at least point to them and say, well,

son and aunt really is up for this as we are. I don't know if you noticed this as well,

but in the post match comments, I think it was the lad who scored the goal, but I also seen

a few posts on the socials from Portville players where they rather make an excuse for the pitch

and they've started to warn it. It's obviously tongue and cheek, but the same thing is like,

we love that pitch. That's our pitch, you know, love playing on that pitch. But it did feel to me like

they almost embraced it and you could tell after 10 minutes that we just attitude-wise and the

way we were knocking the ball around that we just, we were a little bit weak and there was a

couple of times throughout the game, probably more than a couple of times where they were putting heavy

titles in which you'd expect from AFL players, right? That's kind of the hallmark of a lowly player,

but leaving a knee in on in my end, there as he's trying to turn or Angulo getting put on his

arse, told me getting kicked out the game. Lafayette was kicked out the game to an extent, you know,

it didn't really get on the ball as much as he normally does in drive through the midfield,

and it just felt to me like, I think we made it very easier for them to smell blood.

I must admit, I got a little bit worried before the game where I was listening to the

podcast that you did with, was it called Phil Bowers and Portville, because I thought this

is a team that has literally got nothing to lose because it's so far down the bottom of the league.

But the comment would be on a relatively good run, having the picked up a couple of points,

obviously they've had the AFA cup wins. And so this is going to be a really dangerous game,

because they're not thinking about anything else, it's just an opportunity to go and

have a, you know, make real headlines for themselves. And I just knew we'd have to be

completely at this from the offen, you know, as we talk about, we were. It's interesting with

the leadership conversation, right? And, you know, I've just been jotting down the names of people

who were missing. And, you know, realistically, there's only Bala or Daldorette in the fair,

yesterday, who started, who'd be in what you'd call I was strongest first 11. You know, if everybody

was fit, the 11 that you'd expect the bris to play, there's only those three who'd be guaranteed

I reckon to be in it. And I think it's interesting with the captaincy. So I think,

obviously Jacques has been such an important figure on the field. And we're saying that in the

game that he's been missing, we've kind of lacked that leadership. And we've said that we can do

with people trying to take ownership and lead the team, but people didn't know who was in charge,

who to look at, who to listen to for instructions and all that sort of stuff. We've had a situation

where Tray Yume was surprisingly named captain when Jacques first got injured. O9's come in, and he's

assumed the captaincy straight away. Now, O9's obviously a massive person behind the scenes and

has been involved in the squad or season, but he's not first team regular. And I just found a

baffle in that, some of it like Dan Ballard, who we know is really hardly spoken about the club.

As a leader in embodies, everything that we do is a team. I just don't understand why he hasn't

been captain. And look, I might be reading far too much into this and it's inconsequential.

And people say, you know, you should have 11 captains on the pitch, and all that sort of stuff, blah, blah, blah.

In terms of continuity of voice and somebody to lead,

I find this really strange Ballard hasn't been the vice captain. And I do wonder how much

chocolate and change and captaincy, with players who wouldn't necessarily be in the first

choice 11 if everybody's fit. You know, because we've had conversations, I don't know about,

is this a weekly drops Yume if everybody's fit? Is this a week that, you know, obviously O9's

only just come back into the side. He hasn't been around the first team all season.

So you kind of wouldn't, look, these conversations always happen after a bad defeat, don't they?

You kind of look at different things ago. Is this the blame? Is this the blame? Is this the blame?

But I just don't kind of understand the logic behind that. And I do wonder whether that kind of feeds

into what we end up saying, yes, and what we saw at West Ham, you know, West Ham was a similar

sort of performance. Brent, it wasn't great. We've seen a few of these performances in the past.

You know, two and a half months. And yeah, yeah, I think I just hope that the game,

yes, against Portfield really gives him a kick. And I think it will, because there was so much wrong

with that, that they've all got to sit down and really analyse what's going wrong. It's quite

easy. It's like pieces and everything, sorry, so. Yeah, well, I'll set pieces there by the way,

we're playing for set pieces. Now a set piece goes from set piece record. This season isn't that good,

but it is quite a kind of a positive is, it's actually quite a nice, not a nice feeling, sorry,

but if you think about it, being a bit angry with Sunderland, it's been a long time since we have

been. So if you think about it, things aren't actually that bad, are they? Yesterday's

thought result and performance was that bad, but isn't it quite it's a feeling that we used to get

every couple of weeks, isn't it, how angry we were? It has been a long time. I was trying to think

of the last time. And I don't think it's since the breeze came in. I'm hoping, by the way,

this time in two weeks, we're not as angry as we've ever been, of course. You know, I don't

want to jinx that, but it's been a long time since we've been, since we've been like, kind of,

this hurt by our, by our performance and that, strangely, is a positive that I can take from it.

No, you're absolutely right. You're probably looking what, three years, so you're looking back

to the belire when you could be as pissed off. The reason I'm so annoyed by it is it's such a big

opportunity to really show that we are developing and changing as a club. And I just thought,

that performance, I thought, hoped that that's what performance episode yesterday was in the past,

because I actually was so convinced we'd beat poor failure yesterday because I knew that we would,

I just thought I knew what we'd find a way to win. I thought, this group of players will go there

and find a way to win. Yes, it'll be horrible. It'll be ugly, but we'll find a way to win that game,

because it's such an important game. And the fact that we didn't even look like trying to win it

is really frustrating for me because I say, you know, you're getting to the pretty last day of the

FA Cup. And who knows what happens? And realistically, that's the best opportunity for us to win

something in the, in recent times. Especially after Tuesday, Tom, because we were so committed

and the game plan was brilliant at Leeds, like we were horrible at the watch, we made it horrible,

Leeds fans and, and, you know, even father after the game is, we're coming away and talking about all

the shit housing we did during the game. And I came away from that and thought brilliant,

that should be the blueprint now for every away game between now and the end of the season. And

it might be, but obviously, you can't play it against Portville, right? That's not going to happen

there. Probably going to assume the role of the team who, um, waste a bit of time and sit by

in the ball. And the day, you know, they, they had scheduled go keep our injuries two or three times

during the game. And I wasn't angry about it because we did that on Tuesday night at Leeds. But

after Tuesday, I was just so confident that the attitude and application would be right. And

this is something I would love to dig into somehow with maybe X-Pro's current players or whatever.

But what is it about this thing where like players just don't get switched on for Cup games?

Because like Martin says, what an opportunity we've just squandered. We could have, we were one game

from playing at Wembley. And for me, I know this has been taught about Lords all over the

country for years now. But the FA Cup still has a bit of magic for me. I still love the idea of

doing well in a cup and going on a cup run. And we've got players in our squad who've won

cups. Granted, Jack has won the FA Cup twice with Arsenal. Lutcher L. Hertroud has won it with

Firenord. Um, Siddiqui won it with his team in Belgium. There's probably others. I haven't got

time to look it up. But, you know, we've got experience of putting in there a players of one

thing. So you would just assume like there would be really up for this. But nobody can deny that

there was a marked difference in application and attitude to choose the night. So how did,

can you put your finger on what that is? Like why is, why it was so vastly different?

Well, there's another positive. We save a lot of money. We don't have, we don't have a Wembley

trip. It may be living too. We don't even too Wembley trips. And you know what? It means

that we're very unlikely now to go to Europe. We're going to be, we're going to save a fortune.

So there you go. We should be thanking them. Yeah. Well, I was taught, I was telling me,

because my wife's not really into football. I was telling her all about it on the, on the

morning, the game. I was like, well, I could be going to Wembley in a month or so. And then,

after that, if we did get the luck game three weeks after it's another Wembley game,

and she's like, you're not going to them, are you? You've already been to Wembley loads.

I was like, well, we'll be. So she's, she's rubbing her hands together. I think there's

a lot of money I've saved. Yeah. That's a fair point. You see, I was trying to find the positive.

And in terms of, I think, by the way, that there's only yesterday, it will have got

the breeze scratching his head. The breeze doesn't get too high and doesn't get too low. All right.

And I know as I was with him, I was with him a couple of weeks ago. And I asked him about,

like, how he celebrated promotion to the Premier League, right? And he said, well,

didn't really just have to focus on what was next. And I was shocked. And I said to him,

I told him that I went on holiday the next day to celebrate the fact that we got the

promote to the Premier League. And I'm only a fan, right? And I went on holiday with my wife

to celebrate. And I'm a fan. You're the head coach. And he said he didn't celebrate it.

He said, yeah, he said he had a bit of family time over the summer, but didn't celebrate it.

He was, he was constantly focused on what was next, right? So he doesn't ever get too high.

And somebody never gets too high, never gets too low. So he won't be devastated about this,

but he will be thinking, how on earth, how did that happen? How can I make sure that it never

happens again? And I think with the breeze, it, it, it, it, it won't up again. Another thing about

him, by the way, in terms of how meticulous he is, when I was with him, I think we finished the

interview about probably about 3 p.m. And, you know, players train morning stroke lunchtime,

right? Then he's done his media work. He's chatted to me till three o'clock. And I went,

say, you off home now, is it? And he just like, kind of laughed me like, no. All right. If you got,

if you got like more media to do, he goes, oh, no. But there's always something. There's always

something, right? So he is, he, he's a work garlic. And it can be a good thing. It can be a bad thing.

My point is that although this result won't have him as devastated, and it may be a little

bit, but maybe a bit of anger, he won't be as devastated as the fans are, but it will have really

confused him. And it will have him working on what he always calls, like you said earlier,

a solution. He always says, we need to find a solution. And in fairness, he always does. And

back him to, it's just, it's going to be this time next year now for the FAQ.

As you can imagine, Martin, the reaction, particularly on social media, has been in

Reston. And that's a word that Liberus likes in Reston. I mean, just, I don't like to comment too

much on this stuff, but it needs to be commented on a thing. But a lot of people call in his

future into question. And you said social media there. Now, I'm not on X, right? So when I hear

things like that, I know you're talking about X. Yeah. No one, you know, has said that, they,

yeah, no one, no one who went to the game, no one, on X, X is not real life. Correct.

Like these, some of these accounts probably don't have a face as their kind of avatar.

You know, you don't know who's behind it. You don't know if they're just trouble meters.

You don't know if there's someone who was opinion you really trust. Nobody is saying that

the police should go. Nobody real. And X is not real. Maybe not saying go now, but a lot of people

are talking, I reviews this result, Martin, and I've used this as an excuse to say, well,

I think in the summer, we might be looking at a change and all it. I just, we talk, we do comment

on this stuff quite often, but it is important. I think not to lose perspective of where we're at

and what we've achieved and what we still can achieve as well. And I was really glad Tom brought

up the fact that the bristers didn't get too high in too low, because a lot of the negative reaction

to Lebrace yesterday wasn't about the performance or what have you. It was what he said after the

game and the fact that he wasn't getting carried away in either direction. I think he said,

he said something along the lines of as it is what it is and people really took that heart.

And I'm thinking, well, one, these, you know, English isn't his first language, but two,

we know he doesn't get carried away. He doesn't get carried away. And he was actually

very gracious in defeat. He gave a lot of credit to Port Veil as he should of, because they played

well. He wasn't blaming the pitch. He wasn't blaming the lack of first team players available to him.

He wasn't blaming the ref or Var or anything like that. He was very gracious in defeat and

actually quite measured. And I just think like if I think people need to remember that and not get

too annoyed when Lebrace isn't screaming and ranting and raving, because it isn't he style.

It never has been. And I would suggest the reason we've done as well as we have under him is a lot

to do with that because he's just not a particularly animated person, which, okay, on days like yesterday

where you, you maybe could do with a ranta and rave at the getting the lads a bit more.

Maybe that can be frustrating. But for the majority of the time, the ninth or the 95% of the time,

it's a real strength and it's important not to lose sight of that.

Oh, look at 100% isn't I think you only have to cast your mic and back to that. We're running

at the end of last season. There's people who really want them sacked before the playoffs.

You know, so I remember like, you know, it's absolutely nonsensical. And, you know, if, you know,

if, if they are Sunderland supporters, I think some of them are. I think Tom's rise in terms of his

analysis on social media. But I've spent the day looking in Facebook groups of Sunderland fans and

there's plenty of different opinions and a lot of criticism for Lebrace. And I just think it's

absolutely mental. And I think, you know, you probably, again, probably the same people who

were calling for me sacked before the playoffs and bring Tony Mobrie and because he's better at the

playoffs. Do you like, what the fuck are you under? It's absolutely, absolutely nonsensical.

The thing I think we all know about the brist, that I think the brist has been one of the best

things happening this football club over the past. Well, 30 years, really. And in all, honestly,

he's done so fantastically well with this squad. And that's what it say is perfect. I don't think any

of us would sit here and go, he gets absolutely everything spot on. But Tom, I think when we last

recorded with you, you said, you trust the registered brist with the pin number. And the same thing

that still applies for me because you know that he will be at work today. He'll be watching the

video of that game and trying to figure out things to try for when we're next in that situation.

Next got to play a team that was struggling to break down. It'd be analysing everything he's

done yesterday with sobs with team selection with approach to try to improve. And I think that's

all he can ask. He's a absolutely fantastically good manager right now. And look, if he, if he

left Sunderland, he would have a ton of job offers. He would absolutely have a ton of job offers.

And there'll be clubs in the summer who want them. I can guarantee you that now that the

club isn't some who want them because of the job he's done with us over the past two years.

So let's start get carried away in thinking there's this you could hope in mandra that he

would get every single buddy decision right and wins every single game because it's not.

We've been through enough of them to know that that does not exist. And I just think you've got

to take a step back and look at everything. You're eating to be pissed off with the game yesterday

and pissed off with the results. That's natural. It's normal. It's fine. And there is some criticism

that's due to be directed at the team and your questions about certain things yesterday. But

there's absolutely no question mark over the bracing. I think we've all just got to take a step

back and back into the hill because he has done so well over the past couple of seasons for us.

And if we give him the space and time, you'll do fantastic things over the next couple of seasons as

well. Just around off, I guess Tom, but on the bigger picture, it is difficult in the aftermath of

such a demoralising defeat. You use the word embarrassing. It was embarrassing, really embarrassing.

So your ego takes a bit of a hit and it is difficult to have perspective and look at the bigger

picture and kind of take everything into account that we've done this season. And the season is

no value yet, by the way, you know, as this Chris was up against the point now on the reaction

pod yesterday, we are still four points off, Brentford and Seventh. So it's not inconceivable that

Sunland could go on to have their best finish in the Premier League since Peter Reed was manager.

We could qualify for Europe. These are things that are attainable. The within our grasp,

if we get things right, then there's no reason why we can't do these things. So I just think it

is important on the back of this isn't it? Well, it's difficult to have perspective to after a

couple of days of stewing on it and winging about without work, we are made to whatever. Just to

remember, we are still in a really good position. We can't allow the season to get away from us.

Just off the back of this, I think there's still a lot to play for and yeah, let's keep perspective,

I think. Yeah. And there's still there's still the new castle game as well, which is a big one.

I do think that LeBrice is putting a lot of concentration on that, by the way, because if you

notice when he's asked about injuries, he doesn't normally give a return date. But lately, he has

started to say they should be back for new castle. So I think that he is really focused on that

game. I must admit, I'm not confident about that game at all, but I do think that LeBrice is

going to be giving it like even no stone on turn when you talk about he is very, very good tactically.

He will have a plan for that game. It could go out of the window in the first 10 minutes. We know

that, but I think he is ready for it and we will be prepared for it. At least it looks like we're

going to have some key players back for it as well. Yeah. And like I say, Martin, just got to keep

our tins up this week. Get over it quickly and then move on and hopefully, hopefully responding

against Brighton. I think that's the big thing. We're all going to be sitting now expecting

the players to put it right. Like, you know, any question marks over attitude application,

needs to be put right against Brighton. And I think a big positive head into that game is that

some of those names I mentioned earlier, the players that were missing are probably going to be back

for this one. It's often what you need after a difficult defeat, isn't it? It's just

a few more bodies back in, a few changes, a bit of quality being added to the side and move on

very, very, very quickly put it behind us with a win, hopefully. I'm going up to that one.

Actually, I tell you who I am spending the Friday night with. And I have a guess. Someone who

we love in Sunland, but also is fairly successful at Brighton. Oh, he's put us on the spot there.

Well, talking to Johnny Bern. Talking of cup runs. Oh, well, that's also talking about

cup runs. It's not John Bern. Oh, more, much more recent.

Point, a good poet. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, brilliant.

Me and Gus, me and Gus, point it on, at the point in Sunland on Friday night,

I'm not sure that any point me trying to advertise it because I think it might be sold out,

but you can check that out. And there might be still some tickets left. It's a massive venue.

So that's Friday night with him. He's great. Gus, when I love to add to the podcast with him

before the last Darby, and he just left his job in Korea. So he, literally the day before,

I think he'd left. And when I was texting him about coming on, he was like, oh, I'm flying home,

taught you tomorrow. And I was like, really? Anyways, he'd been back in the UK a matter of hours,

a barely slept. And I think if I'd let him, he would have recorded for four or five hours.

And he was brilliant. He was on top form. So he's one of those people you don't have to say

very much. So we just talked. So yeah, that'll be a good night. Thanks, man. You're busy.

Yeah, well, we've got plenty coming up this week. You know, we've, we've got lots of pods coming

thick and fast Martin. I mean, I think it's a bit of a good time to take a bit of a breath tomorrow

with on this week. It is. We're going this week tomorrow. And look, we'll build up to the Brighton

game. Obviously, after that, won't we? And there's some, this one's got so much credit in the bank.

We go in the Saturday. They'll be wanting to prove a point. And look, things change quickly

in football, don't they? And two wins next two games and everything will be hunky-dory again. So

it's all, it'll all be fine. Let me show that. Of course, it'll be fine. Of course, it'll be fine,

although people might not feel that way today. It's the, it's the head enough to work and all

that. But yeah, you know, it's one of those things. Losing, it used to be second day,

Chet Lewis's Tom point now before and it's been a little while since we've had a few

crushing ones, but we've also got Dom Shaw from the Northern Echo. And with us this week,

there will be build up all the way up to Brighton, head to rotoreport.sbnation.com for written content,

loads of reaction to the game there as well. And just to say thank you very much, Martin.

Been lovely, mate. Well, just go. Yes, lovely, as lovely as it can be to talk about Sun and then

the Cup getting beat. We've got knocked out of the FA Cup by Lee, too, so yes, lovely,

delightful, a big one. Sorry, sorry. Basically a league two side would make it even worse.

And thank you, Tom. Thanks a bit. And good luck with Gus. I'm sure it'll be a great night.

Thank you. Always a pleasure. Sorry, it's been so long.

Yes, well, we won't be. We'll make sure it's not so long next time.

Thank you very much to the list of Chet Lewis. Join us and we'll catch you tomorrow.

Two teams, one cup. The prime time stage is set for the TGL presented by SoFi finals,

Los Angeles Golf Club versus Tigers Jupiter links. Keep up. It's playoffs. Tune in Monday, March 23rd,

9 p.m. Eastern on ESPN 2 and Tuesday, March 24th, 7 p.m. Eastern on ESPN and on the ESPN app.

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