More Russian snooping allegations

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The vibe in town today is distrustful because Brussels is turning its attention away from hungry

to Germany's far-right AFD party and its access to confidential EU documents.

Also on the pod, the Danes are heading to the polls today so we're seeing whether Metta

Friedrichson might be looking at a third term as prime minister. And finally my absolute favorite

story of the day, who's going to win the Eurovision of trees and do you have a favorite tree?

Oh, maybe a weeping willow. I love a weeping. I love a birch actually. My Ukrainian

homeland. Anyway, I'm Zorosh after Lovich. With me today is Ian Wishart. He's our senior politics

editor. Hey, Ian. Hi, Zoya. And there is some breaking news this morning connected with your

country of birth. No, not birth where you lived for a long time. It's terrible. Yeah, there is

some news, Ian. So just overnight, Ursula von Delayen has been in Australia, signing a big

free trade agreement with that country. And it's a pretty big one because this was the one that

fell apart back in 2023 over last minute disagreements. But Donald Trump is pushing Australia and

Europe closer together. Okay, well, I'm sure we'll talk about that much more in the days to come.

But should we look at the main stories of the day now?

Our first story today, it's a bit of a continuation on the theme that we started yesterday about

suspicion and distrust among the European Council table. We spoke yesterday about how hungry

might be leaking EU secrets to Russia. But now there's a new story out today that I've been

reporting out with our colleague Netta Nostlinger. And it's about how potentially the AFD in Germany

might be leaking to Russia and to China as well, Ian. Yeah, so this centers on this database called

EU docs. And that contains thousands of EU documents, including confidential ones that are drawn

up by ambassadors in their regular meetings. And this is something that the AFD gets access to just

because it's a party in the Bundestag. Yeah, that's right. So in Germany, because of its history

with the Nazi party, there is this real feeling that there needs to be oversight over executive power.

And so all documents in this EU docs database are available to any member of the Bundestag and their

aids. And that's not like that anywhere else in the EU. So we've had some diplomats who've been

getting in touch with me as we've been reporting out this all barn story. And earlier when we were

reporting on some of the other elements of suspicion around the AFD, they've reached out and said,

look, we're actually really concerned because all of the information, all of the notes from our

co-repe meetings, these are these meetings of EU ambassadors. That all goes into this database.

And we have no idea whether these AFD lawmakers who have closed ties with Russia are actually

taking them and giving them to the Kremlin or maybe taking them and giving them to Beijing.

So do you get a sense in Brussels that the diplomats here are sort of limiting what they say or

limiting what they put down in writing because of these these fears? Absolutely, not just in writing,

but even what they're willing to say in these meetings where 27 EU ambassadors sit in on them.

So one senior diplomat told me that they're taking all sorts of precautions to protect sensitive

meetings and information. But the flip side is that there is a giant Putin-shaped hole in our

security measures because of these German rules. It's very similar to what you and Nick were talking

about yesterday morning in these allegations that all ban and the other members of the Hungarian

government are leaking information from EU meetings and Ambassador meetings in Brussels to Russia.

All it does, it makes it much more difficult to have reflow in conversations between member states.

And that's exactly what the EU and Brussels is for because if different countries can't talk to

each other, then it makes it very difficult to operate. Yeah, and this is something I was talking

with a diplomat yesterday about and he was saying, look, the issue is we have these discussions

at the water cooler. We all know what's happening. We know that there are certain people who are

in on these meetings, who have access to these documents, who might leak them to Russia or to Beijing.

And like, this isn't based on just speculation. We know that the AFD and its lawmakers have some

pretty close links to the Kremlin and to Beijing. AFD lawmakers have been widely accused of using

their right to submit parliamentary questions. This is a scandal from last year, I think.

It was, yeah, and they've been gathering so the ideas that they're asking questions about things

like drones and defenses and that is specifically to disclose this information for the Kremlin.

That was the allegation. Are they making any comments to your story this morning?

Oh, I mean, it's a classic no comment and they've consistently denied any sort of wrongdoing.

But it is a particularly worrying thing for diplomats in town. That being said, you know,

the diplomats I also spoke to said, look, this is something that we've been aware of for years.

And it's something that we bake into the process. It just means we're not having those really,

really important discussions that are confidential and frank in that 27 format. It's just like

the 25 of us are talking behind closed doors. That's inevitable really. Speaking of no comments,

the European Commission actually did give a comment yesterday. Didn't they to the allegations

on on hungry leaking information? Yeah, that's right. The Commission responded and they said that

it's greatly concerning this report and they want Budapest to clarify the allegations.

But I don't think anything's going to happen this side of the this side of the hungry election,

is it? Oh, I mean, it'll be as clear as muddy and

Good right. More election news today. Denmark heading to the polls for a general election.

Should we talk about that first? And then we'll go on to talk about the referendum in Italy.

And let's not forget Slovenia. Slovenia as well. Yeah, which is a really close run thing,

wasn't it? It was, and that's why we weren't really talking about it yesterday,

because it was so bloody close. We didn't want to get it wrong, call it one way or another.

But yeah, let's talk Denmark first. That's quite close as well, I think, according to the latest polls.

Yeah, it is looking very tight indeed for Metafriedriksen. She is the Danish Prime Minister.

Now, she's running for her third term. And if she wins, that would make her one of the longest serving

leaders in the EU. Wow, has there been that long? Is it already? Well, I mean, it's just a club

of newcomers, apart from Albania. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Macron. But look, it's, it's not yet a

done deal. It is tight, but she has come from really well behind in the polls. And you know,

what the secret to her success is? Greenland, fending off Donald Trump. Absif, I can loot leave.

That is what has happened. Metafriedriksen, she is suddenly writing a waiver popularity,

because she came out really strong in response to Donald Trump's saber-waffling over Greenland.

And basically, we've had this kind of rallying around the flag effect in Denmark.

So she's probably quite grateful for him, then. Well, I think she might prefer it if he wasn't

trying to take a chunk of the Danish empire with him, but sure. Okay, so we'll look out for those

results later. And then let's talk about Slovenia, then. Yes. So Slovenia is super interesting.

This was Sunday. They went to the polls. They went to the polls on Sunday. It has been very,

very tight. There is the the tightest margins, less than a one percentage point difference between

the current incumbent Golob, who is in the lead. Yeah, and he's the liberal. He is the liberal,

slightly more liberal. And we've got Janis Jansza, who is the challenger, who is kind of a

populist fire bridge. You're always impressed me with your pronunciations of any language around

Europe, so yeah. Listen, I do what I can with my people from the central and eastern parts of

this block. But yes, so he is really kind of nip in at the heels of Golob. And really, we don't

know who's going to form a government yet, because it could kind of go either way. There is a one

seat margin in it. It looks like. Right. Wow. Okay. And Jansza, I'm using the English pronunciation of

that. Obviously, if he gets in, then that's another sort of hardliner lining up to be alongside or

replace Orban as the big right wing firebrand in the European Council. But that being said,

you know, I've been speaking with people around town, people who are close to the office of the

European Council President Antonio Costa. And there is more of a relaxed feeling about Jansza than

there has been about some of the others. And you know, that's actually true also of even Fizo

and Babish. So there is a sense that like with Orban there, he is the guy who's kind of leading the

charge. He's taking all of the hits. He's out in front. But there is something of a sense of,

okay, these other guys you can work with if Orban particularly is gone, we might be all right. So

I think a key question is whether Jansza is going to be one of four or one of three.

So briefly Italy, because George Melloni has been sort of the star of the show for a couple of

years now is sort of the big popular leader. But she's not infallible because she lost this referendum.

Yeah, this was a big one. She took a hit. And you know, at the beginning when the voting started,

the turnout was quite high. And the prediction was that that would favor her side. But that was all

for Norte. And she ended up losing. So this was this big referendum that she...

Oh, and Jude Dishoree.

Jude Dishoree. That's how you pronounce it, Ian. Are you sure you speak English as your first

lecture? Yeah, I've just had a few brandies before coming. Well, yeah. So these were the changes

that she was proposing. And it was basically a proposal to overhaul the body that governs

judges careers. And what they wanted to do was instead of electing judges, they wanted to

essentially choose members by a lottery. And this has been sort of a fantasy of the conservatives

and the right wing in Italy for a few decades, actually, I think. That's right. But you know,

that's all very technical. The real kind of test was the test of Melloni's power because

she has emerged as this very, very strong leader in Italy. And in Europe, actually, that's why

this is so significant. Totally. And you know, she kind of wasn't... There weren't expectations

that she was going to be so strong and so powerful and so long-lasting. I mean, she has

lasted in that post as Italian Prime Minister for way longer than her predecessors have.

Well, I think that was one of her, but probably still is, ambitions to be sort of the longest

surfing Italian Prime Ministers. Indeed. But now she has taken... She's got a black eye.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. So look, we'll see what happens with this, but she conceded that she

has lost. And actually former Italian PM Matteo Renzi, he said that she should resign as a result.

When he lost his referendum, he resigned. So he wants her to do likewise.

Ian, third story, best story, trees. Wonderful. If a tree falls in the woods, does it make a sound?

Only if I'm there to hear it. It's very philosophical. Listen, the point of this is there is

a phenomenal contest that is happening today or rather the outcome is being announced today.

It's basically a contest for like Europe's best tree. Right. It's voted by the people of Europe.

It's been running for a couple of decades, but it really has heated up in recent years.

And I thought the notary story was boring. How very dare you. Trees are my favourite.

Gina, I'll produce a de-honest earlier. Accused just really of having no trees. And de-honest,

this one, like I cannot believe you would say such things. Did you know about that?

No wearing Australia, there are no trees. Go on. The nulla bar. Yeah, that's true, the plain.

Yeah, it means no trees. Yeah, that's right. Exactly.

But there are other parts of Australia that have plenty of eucalypt's.

Okay, I don't think we should talk too much about Australia.

Yeah, all right, whatever. In Brussels.

In Brussels.

200-year-old beach trees in the Foray de Swain.

Amazing.

I think they're my favourite trees in Brussels.

Here's my question, Ian, as a representative of the British Empire, how did a British tree

manage to make the short list of this competition? I thought you'd Brexit it.

Well, we do everything very well. I mean, if Australia can be in Eurovision,

then the UK can be in Europe's best tree.

Oh, good point.

Anyway, so look, there are a few previous champions that are noteworthy.

There's an Estonian oak tree that stands in the middle of a football pitch.

That'd be a testing game of footy.

Terrible. There was a pine tree, the one pine tree that survived flooding of a Czech village.

Yeah.

500-year-old Romanian lime tree.

Yeah.

It's part of our folk legends.

Are people still listening?

No, I've been unleashed.

Yeah, look, they're happy.

But the last four winners of this contest, they've all come from Poland.

And Dionis has told me it's not because they've rigged the contest.

It's because a couple of comedians, they've been meaming basically to their 1.7 million supporters,

trying to get support for Poland.

So it's pretty pretty.

They sound barking.

Okay, well, guys, I'm sorry, Ian's fired now.

Anyway, look, things have taken a bit of an ugly turn.

There have been accusations of cheating.

There's been a comedy talk show in Spain that launched a campaign that trashed

the Polish archrival.

It's been really, really hot.

I mean, they said you're new.

They said all we can say about this competition.

I wanted to say that the the comedians said that the Polish tree smells like armpits.

Nice.

I think what I would love is for our listeners to write in with their favorite trees.

Oh, that would be good.

I would love to know, A, what is the type of tree and B, specific trees you love.

I would like to know some any more trees that smell of armpits.

WhatsApp is in the show notes.

You tell us folks.

What do you love?

What do you hate?

I'm really looking forward to these results.

Can't wait.

That's about all we have time for.

I mean, we've spoken more about trees than perhaps we should have,

but here we are at the end of the show.

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Trees and subscriptions.

That's it folks.

You know, I was going to say weeping willow you stole my favorite tree.

What about that?

That's really weird.