Murder In Moscow: The Experts Behind The case Against Bryan Kohberger (Part 10) (9/2/26)

0:00What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. In this episode we're going to start taking a look at the responses and rebuttals to the reports issued by the experts lined up against Brian Coburger. And the first response and rebuttal to report issued by Matthew Notal on January 22nd, 2025. Responses to rebuttal items in report by Matt Notal dated January 22nd, 2025. 1. Sutton Report page 10. It should be noted that there were no drip trails of blood noted on the bedroom floor. Drip trails are indicative of movement by a bleeding individual. Notal comment. Drip trails when present can represent movement of a bleeding person or a movement of an object with wet blood of sufficient volume to continue to drip after blood acquisition. I.e. a bloody weapon can create a drip trail from the weapon being carried away from a bloody source. Sutton response. Drip trails can certainly indicate movement of an object with enough wet blood

1:00to create drips, but this type of drip trail is typically characterized by a small number of drips due to the lack of a replenishing blood supply. In comparison, a bleeding individual can create a longer, more continuous drip trail. The comment made in my report was intended only to address whether or not a continuous drip trail indicative of bleeding individual was observed. 2. Sutton report page 22. A. Marker 42 an image dsc 4585 and dsc 4587 to pick a pattern transfer staying near the hinge side of the exterior surface of the third level bedroom door. B. A pattern transfer is created when a patterned object, which was wet with liquid blood, made contact with the surface. The appearance of this stain is consistent with diluted blood, creating this pattern transfer. Diluted blood is created when blood is mixed with another liquid. C. Subsequent testing at Marker 42 showed the DNA of Kelly Gonsalvis. Notal comment A. This stain, as depicted in the Sutton

2:06report, image 4587 is an altered blood stain. The appearance depicted in this image represents what was left of the stain after the initial sampling conducted by Detective Talbot. B. Original images of this stain show it to be smaller spatter, black and white numbered placard 42 of Talbot. The sample was then collected likely with excessive water applied to the swab, altering the original appearance of the stain. Days later, when ISPFS laboratory process the scene, a yellow sticker 42 was placed, and the after collection appearance photographed C figure 26. C. The stain was never DNA tested, and therefore it cannot be attributed as originating from any specific individual. The misidentification of this sample may be associated with the renumbering system employed by Detective Pain. Sutton response, regarding alteration of stain 42, my description of stain 42 was based on its appearance and image 4587.

3:10Mr. Notal had the advantage of seeing stain 42 and S.I.T.U. If the original stain was in fact collected using excess water, I agree with Mr. Notal's opinion of it being an altered spatter stain. Regarding the DNA profile of stain 42, I was unaware of the change in numbering system as correlated to the description of the agency number in the ISPFS worksheet described by Mr. Notal. Bates 003289. The misidentification of the sample may be associated with the renumbering system employed by Detective Pain. After further investigation, I removed any DNA results from stain 42, as it appears not to have been tested. 3. Sutton report page 16, ISP 5149 to pick the underside of the shelf above the headboard of the bed. Spatter associated with impact are noted on the underside of the shelf. These spatters represent the termination of the spatters associated with impact seen on the wall above the bed over the head. Notal comment. This part of the assessment

4:17should be also considered cast off from a body object being swung upward and towards the northeast corner of the bed. Sutton response. While I agreed that a cast off pattern may be intermingled with the impact spatter is on the underside of the shelf above Mogen's bed, it's my opinion that a simple call of impact spatter is more conservative. Sutton report page 30, Zanna Kernotal was injured in proximity to this table. Notal comment. As a single drop deposited with potential dilution, it cannot be determined when this drop arrived or what specific mechanism generated it. The Sutton report incorrectly reported that stain F revealed the DNA of Zanna Kernotal. However, no record of this stain having been tested for source DNA was located in the provided data. No additional or accompanying blood stains, patterns, or transfers from Kernotal are demonstrated in this area, so there's no data to suggest Kernotal was injured at or near this table. Bates 003291 Sutton response. The incorrect data profile.

5:23Originally attributed to stain F has been corrected in the body of this amended report. The conclusion stating that the finding of Kernotal's blood on the table in the living room was the basis for my conclusion and that she suffered an injury at or near this table. My original reporting of DNA from stain F as being blood from Zanna Kernotal was a result of my mistaken belief that the description of a stain as being collected from the second floor study table. IS-PFS-22-Wilt. With an alternative description of what I refer to as the beer pong table in the living room, this era has been corrected and the conclusion drawn as a result of this era has been deleted. Sutton report page 56. The appearance of the stains indicated by the yellow oval and DSC 4562 is consistent with diluted blood. Diluted blood is created when blood is mixed with another liquid. The mouth and nose injuries of Zanna Kernotal as noted in the autopsy report are potential sources of diluted blood. Nodal comment. As occurred with the stain on the third floor

6:25door, item 42, this stain was also diluted through the collection process after it had been documented by the detective Talbot. The original deposit was not diluted and therefore does not fit with the source from any mouth or nose injury to a Kernotal. The dilution of this stain is an artificial remnant of sampling. Bates 003291. Sutton response. Regarding the alteration of stain depicted in DSC 4562, as occurred with the stain on the third floor door, item 42, my description of this stain was based on its appearance in image DSC 4562. Mr. Nodal had the advantage of seeing this stain in SITU. If it's confirmed that the original stain was collected using excess water, I agree with Mr. Nodal's opinion of it being altered spattered stain. Regarding the conclusion that the mouth and nose injuries of Zanna Kernotal as noted in the autopsy report are potential sources of diluted blood, this statement does not imply a substitute for DNA testing. It is only stated as a potential source and was not intended to exclude other

7:31mechanisms. Other evidence demonstrated that only Kernotal and the perpetrator were moving about our bedroom. This statement was meant simply to caution the reader that in this particular instance an innocuous explanation for diluted blood should be considered in comparison to the dilution of blood discovered in the adjacent living room. I am in complete agreement with Mr. Nodal that potential mechanism other than blood originating from the mouth and nose of the victims should be considered and never intended to imply otherwise. 6. Sutton Report page 58 The appearance of these spatters is consistent with diluted blood, CDSC 4892 cropped. The mouth and nose injuries of Zanna Kernotal as noted in the autopsy report are potential sources of diluted blood. These spatter stains originated from an impact to a source of exposed blood located approximately three feet and seven inches above the floor, as indicated by the scale and image DSC 4892 cropped.

8:33Nodal comment This pattern of diluted blood sample number 29 is consistent in color and appearance to the diluted blood scene on the pony, half wall and adjacent areas. Without source testing, this spatter cannot be assigned as originating from Kernotal nor can it be associated with injuries to Kernotal without DNA source testing. Sutton response The pattern of diluted blood sample 29 may indeed have been created by the same source as the diluted blood seen on the half wall and adjacent areas in the living room. As is stated in my original report though, the mouth and nose injuries of Zanna Kernotal should also be considered. Sutton report page 61 The appearance of these stains indicates that the blood has been diluted with another liquid altering their appearance. The mouth and nose injuries of Zanna Kernotal as noted in the autopsy report are potential sources of diluted blood. Nodal comment The proximity heightened location of the deposit is similar to the

9:33deposit at position number 29. This is a pattern similar to what was deposited onto the pony, half wall and that already diluted blood was deposited onto the door at this location. Without further testing of sample number 29 or area Q, no specific assignment of source or mechanism can be identified. Bates number 0 0 3 2 9 2 Sutton response My statement that the diluted blood is potentially attributable to the mouth and nose injuries of Zanna Kernotal was not meant to imply a substitute for DNA testing. This statement was meant simply to caution the reader that an innocuous explanation for diluted blood should be considered. I'm in complete agreement with Mr. Nodal that potential mechanisms other than blood originating from the mouth and nose of the victim should be considered and never intended to imply otherwise. All right folks we're going to wrap up right there and in the next episode we're going to pick up with Rebuttal Matthew Nodal report.

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