My Mistress Thinks I’m Cheating on Her

My life's been a little bit of a mess, to be honest, I've divorced wife and I'm currently

living with the lady that I cheated with on my second marriage and at the end of the

day I know inside that I don't I don't love her.

Do you try to heal this and make it work?

What's going on?

This is John with the Dr. John Deloni Show.

Glad that you're here.

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next right move.

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the next right move.

Let's go to Richmond, Virginia.

Let's talk to team Edward.

What's up Edward?

Yes, sir.

Thank you.

Hope for having me.

John is good to talk to you.

You too, my man.

I appreciate you calling.

What's up?

Yes, sir.

Well, my life's been a little bit of a mess, to be honest.

I can go into details or whatever, but a divorce twice and I'm currently living with

the lady that I cheated with on my second marriage.

I've been with her now for almost two years and at the end of the day, I know inside that

I don't I don't love her.

It's been it's it's hard to put into words because I've never talked about this before.

Okay.

Should you be honest, I feel like my whole life's been a little bit of a struggle with, you

know, alcohol and stuff to cope with.

And I've never really formed a relationship like that I should have with my with the people

I've been with.

And I don't know at the moment, I don't know whether to end this and spend some time

working on myself.

Or is this a place where you've already destroyed two other people's lives in the past?

Do you try to heal this and make it work or move on?

Oh, man.

It's a pretty loaded question.

Yes, sir.

Here's a couple of things I'm hearing, okay?

Okay.

Tell me, brother, you tell me like, hey, you're awesome on this one, okay?

Thing number one is feeling in love is a thing I'm never going to base any decisions on.

Sure.

Because that comes and goes.

Love is an action.

It's a series of things I do and a series of things I receive, right?

So yeah, you've been with somebody for two years, you don't feel in love right now.

It's just kind of part of the deal.

That doesn't mean it's over.

That's a Hollywood thing.

Right.

If you don't feel it, then it's over.

That's not true.

If you know this, like, let me answer this one.

Okay.

No, don't stay in a relationship just because you don't want to hurt somebody's feelings.

That's disrespectful and dishonoring.

Okay.

Okay.

Um, if I could give you a little backstory on some of this.

Yeah.

I was in my previous marriage for 14, well, we were together 14 years, but we were only

married for like five, I think.

But I had been in an unhealthy place when I got into that relationship and a lot of just

grinking and stuff led us together and, you know, spent it.

We got together.

We lived together and all this.

Well, during that time, I was trying to work on myself and I found, um, I found healing

through through trail running, okay?

And I started about seven years ago running, running, running and it seemed to clear my

mind and it seemed like I was able to step away from some of the, the addictions and stuff

that I had.

And, you know, for towards the end of the year, even for two years, I almost two years,

I actually was able to even go completely sober, no alcohol, no nothing.

So the problem I found was that my partner that I was with at the time was understanding

healthy and not really into any of that stuff and we grew apart because I didn't try to

focus on bringing her, I didn't focus on her, I focused on me, you know?

And even though I was finding that healing, our relationship was falling apart.

And I had so called friends that were telling me, hey man, you know, look at all you've

done for yourself and, you know, your wife ain't a part of that.

You know, you deserve better, you deserve this, you deserve that and I'll let it get

in my head.

And, met someone, you know, called my eye, I called their eye and cheated, turned around,

left my wife, divorced her, moved this lady in with me and now, you know, it's like,

I don't know, it's like everything's changed, it's like barely run or anything anymore

now because she's afraid that I will leave her because that's why I left the first

time was because I was out hanging out with other people and stuff and it's like the

one thing in my life that had kept me somewhat better was somewhat took away from me now

and I found myself going right back to the old habits of, well, I just go home and have

a beer, you know what I mean?

Yeah, but I don't think that's why you quit running.

Okay.

I think you quit running because you don't respect yourself anymore.

Ah, you're right about that.

And the only guys I've ever seen get sober and find alternative outlets for inner demons

for lack of better terms have high, they come to a place where they decide I'm worth living

a different life, right?

And in the process of you realizing I deserve to live a different life, you forgot

the for what?

The reason I work out a lot, the reason I try to keep myself in reasonable shape is so

that my wife can anchor in, my kids can anchor in, my co-workers can anchor in, right?

And not so that I can, whatever.

So you're over time, man, you found a great outlet, you started getting well and instead

of getting well, so that you could be more present, be more stable, be more supportive,

whatever, in sickness and in hell, yeah, like you said, you let those voices of your idiot

friends get in your head and you became somebody.

You did things that you as a man don't respect, it's hard to look yourself in the mirror,

it's hard to put those shoes back on and go run it for a guy that you don't think is

worth it.

Yeah.

And let's be honest, alcohol takes that away.

Yep.

And so the choice you have in front of you right now is not about her.

It's about, well, you forgive the man who screwed up, who blew his life up and somebody

else's life up, and you choose to take the actions to become a man that you respect

again, so that you can be a net positive to those in your home and your community and

you're in the world around you.

But that starts with you looking in the mirror and saying, I'm worth the fight, because

you know how hard it's going to be to get back in shape, you know, it's going to, how

hard it is to a campaign, all that kind of stuff and alcohol just makes it go away for

a minute.

Yeah, it does, you know, I'm telling you right now, if you were my friend, I would have

showed up at your door and said, don't do what you're about to do, okay, and I'm going

to tell you, it's over, you've done it, I'm going to, I would show up to your house

now and tell you, hey, put your shoes back on, you're worth running for again.

Right.

Right.

Yeah.

How do I, how do I put on my shoes and go run again when the person I'm with is like

basically, if, if you do it without me, then you're probably out here cheating on me,

kind of attitude.

Well, she has a lived experience.

Yes.

That's true.

She's not crazy.

And so the question for you is, I need you to put a path back to trust, because we met

through an affair.

And if she says, I will never be able to trust you, if you're gone on these long marathon

runs with these other community, then you have a choice to make.

Am I going to walk this path and find other outlets?

I know that I found one that I didn't see coming and that was trail running of all things.

I'm going to go find another one because she's worth that, right?

We are worth that or I'm going to go ahead and call it because trail running is my one

thing.

Right.

And you have to be a grown man and own that decision.

But it's asking her, because normally what happens is when people get together in that

we're like an affair and then they get together, the statistics, the data of them staying together

is very, very low percentage.

No, 100% right.

And so the only way to make it work is to have an ironclad path towards trust, because

we both started in a lie.

And so that just like all relationships, the core foundation, the reason I always tell

people you got to see them and know them and celebrate them, those are things to do to

build trust.

Right.

And so sitting down and ask otherwise what happens is most of the time that that finish

line just moves all the time.

Okay.

And you can never, she'll never trust you.

Okay.

There's nothing.

There's not a thing you can do right without a plan.

You get what I'm saying with that intention now.

I do.

Yes.

My guess is she's, it has slowly moved and moved and moved.

Is that fair?

Yes.

Yes it is.

Okay.

Another thing I'll tell you is people often say, I don't trust you, I don't trust you.

That's often the only words that people have for the gap they feel when there's distance,

even though people are standing right next to each other.

Okay.

What I mean by that is y'all can be sitting on the couch and she knows you're not into

her.

Okay.

And the only assumption is he must have somebody else.

Right.

Right.

Right.

Yep.

It might be you with your own demons.

It might be when you drink alcohol, your body just vortexes away from you, right?

And that's why it feels good to drink.

But she's sitting right next to you on the couch and she's grasping at ghosts.

She feels you, but you're not there.

Yep.

And the only logical thing she has in her head is always cheating again.

Yeah.

That's the doctor if I just, if I just pick up my phone for a second, she's like who

are you texting?

Right.

And stuff like that.

But that tells me that she doesn't have you.

She has a shell.

That's probably true.

Yes sir.

That's probably true.

I feel like I've never worked on myself to a degree and I've always just, I don't

think that.

No, it's not that.

I think you've ever gone all in.

Well, that's a good way to put it.

Yeah.

You have to put both feet in the boat and she's not going to go out to heart.

She's not going to leave the bay and go out into the wild ocean.

That's why she's still got the whole thing anchored to the dock because you're not all

the way in the boat yet.

Okay.

And you got to decide, I'm going to put both feet in this thing and look at her and say,

you know what?

You might be able to hurt me.

Okay.

And then she's got to say, yeah.

And you, I know for a fact, you have the capacity to hurt people badly.

And so you might hurt me.

And we both have to decide we're going to put both feet in this boat and come up with

a really intentional plan so that we know without a shadow of a doubt that we're both

in the boat at all times.

Okay.

And I personally don't think it means you have to give up running.

Sure.

It sounds symptomatic to me.

Okay.

It's like she is grasping for things to try to reconnect with you.

Okay.

That makes sense.

It really does.

So I got to work on myself.

I don't think that's where we start.

I think we start with you looking in the mirror and say I'm worth the work.

And the work number one is, yeah.

Am I going to put both feet in the boat of this relationship or on my out?

You get to decide.

And then yes, you've got work on yourself to do.

I get back in shape, getting sober, get with an AA group.

You got to get a group of men around you that will hold you accountable.

All that kind of stuff is true.

You've been on that road before.

You know it.

And in fact, you might not have been on the in with an accountability group.

And if you haven't, you've been a white knuckle into this whole thing.

Trail running in a way is literally running away from that problem.

At some point, you're going to have to face the music and be emotionally vulnerable to

group of people.

So I that's why I'm such a huge fan of AA.

I know some people don't like it, but that's why I'm such a huge fan of group programs.

Like that.

And you look at her and say, I haven't never been fully in this boat.

I'm getting both feet in the boat.

And here's what I need from you to earn trust.

And I'm going to ask you to give me a path to trust for you.

And if it's about your phone, cool.

You can see it.

I don't care.

If it's about whatever, cool.

But we're going to make that path or we're going to go our separate ways.

They hear me say this brother.

Yeah.

You messed up big.

And there's a period at the end of that sentence.

And now you get to choose right now who you're going to be and what you're going to do next.

And that starts with you look in the mirror and say, I'm worth the work.

I'm worth what happens next.

And I for one believe that you are.

Thanks for the call, homie.

Call anytime.

And I'll sit with you.

This is literally what I mean when I say go do the next right thing.

When we come back, a woman asks me to settle a debate between her and her husband over

infant circumcision.

We'll be right back.

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Let's go out to Rochester, Minnesota, and talk to Kate.

Hey, Kate, what's up?

Hi, Dr. John.

Thank you for talking to me today.

Of course.

Thanks for calling.

What's going on?

Hi.

So I guess my question is, my husband and I want to have more kids, and you find ourselves

on opposite sides of something that feels like a deeply held value to both of us.

And I'm wondering if there's some perspective you can help me that maybe I haven't been

able to look at myself or how we can resolve this between us and move forward together.

Yeah, it sounds like it's distressing.

Yes.

Wow.

Okay.

So do y'all have kids already?

Yes.

How old are your kids now?

Other two and four.

Two and four.

Okay.

Both girls.

And what we're disagreeing on is routine infant circumcision, and so trying to plan to

have more kids with people who want, we both came from their families.

I don't know.

You know, there's no compromises, no middle ground on this issue, so we either do it or

we don't, there's no, there's no someone gives a little bit, another person gives a

little bit, and we find a happy middle ground.

So let me back out again.

So you're talking about if we have a third kid, if we roll the dice again and we have

a little boy, one of you wants to circumcise this little boy and one of you does not, right?

Correct.

Where was this argument or this deep seeded challenge with child one and child two?

Well, with child one, it wasn't something we had talked about a lot of time, like I go

back and think like nobody, when you're dating someone, thinking about getting married,

I'm going to be asking each other, are we going to circumcise our kids?

Yeah, that's not in the checklist.

Yeah.

So when we came home from an appointment with the middle eye, I felt like, I don't know,

like maybe 25-ish weeks of pregnancy somewhere on there was when the middle eye asked what

our plans were for.

If a child was a boy and that's when we realized that we actually disagreed on this, I think

maybe we both knew but we hadn't had a discussion about it before then.

And so the remainder of the pregnancy was pretty hard because we were on opposite side

of this issue, but once our daughter was born, we didn't have to face it with her anymore.

And then as our second, let's see, our first girl was just over a year old when we decided

that.

You know, we were both feeling ready for another.

And you kind of let that big question go in the excitement of, yeah, let's have another

baby.

I was pregnant, I didn't sleep, so stressed the whole time.

Where are you on the side of the issue?

I'm completely opposed to circumcision.

Okay, you're opposed to it and he is adamant about it.

Okay.

So, tell me about your, I don't want to take it away from this main issue.

And we'll get back to this main issue, okay?

But being pregnant with kid number two, and let me ask you this way and the most direct

way I can.

If we were had a couple hours together, I would get more information here and we'd just

talk a little more gently.

So I'm going to be pretty abrupt, okay?

Is there a possibility that the angst of the world, the angst of your life, the angst

within your chest, the angst of any number of things has somehow landed on this particular

issue as, I always call anxiety for me, I always felt like a flywheel and it would pick up

a thing, stock market, my wife, health and safety, what any number of things in it would

just spin out of control until I thought I quote unquote, solved that particular issue.

And then it would just pick up something else.

No, I don't think there's a compilation of other things.

I think this is an issue and we do not see eye to eye on that.

Okay.

So tell me about, tell me about your, I mean, this is so deep for you, I mean, it's bringing

up tears, the thought of it is bringing tears.

I mean, it's bringing up deep emotions.

Tell me about where that comes from.

Yeah, I mean, well, because I come from a big family, my husband knows as well, we

both are a big family for ourselves as what we wanted.

So this is the idea of giving up having more kids and being done.

That's the one I'm asking.

The fact that you would not see through your dream of having a big family that strangely

enough is shared with your husband, the fact that you would give all of that up over

this issue.

Oh, yeah, because I think circumstances is inherently harmful to babies and I won't

want to have a baby knowing he's going to be harmed.

Okay.

So tell me about where that belief comes from.

Well, you know, when a baby is born, they're here looking for safety and comfort from

their mom and to literally cut off a piece of genitals on the day they're born or the

next day, it seems absolutely barbaric to me.

Yeah.

Nobody in my family and my immediate family, I didn't have a lot of brothers and I changed

diapers right up.

I know my brothers are not circumcised.

Okay.

Everyone in my husband's extended family is and so it's just like crazy issue that

we're on absolute opposite sides of.

He's like, everyone, everyone grew up just fine.

It's not that big a deal and I think it's, I think it's a terrible practice culturally

and I don't think anyone should be doing it.

But for my own child, I don't know how I would give consent for that procedure.

Is there any, so whenever I'm talking to somebody in their

mind, the door is closed to a converse, to light getting in the door.

I'll take a separate track, but I do feel like I need to challenge the difference in cutting

off genitals versus cutting off skin.

Skin, the skin that has meant to protect the genitals.

Okay.

Yeah, I want to just, one is you're right.

One is a cultural practice, one is just kind of an, I don't know what to say other than

it just as it is and the other is, like conflating those two things, I just want to separate them.

But the fact here is that your mind is made up, there is a door that is shut.

I guess the only path forward for you is an exhale and a making peace with.

This is such a value to me that I'm willing to give up all of this other stuff and I would

say the same thing to your husband on the phone.

This is like, I'm drawing the line in the sand so firm here that it's going to cost me

and all boundaries cost us that I'm going to go through a grieving process.

I'm going to be super sad that I had this picture of my life with five, six, seven kids running

around having fun.

But my value line stops here and I'm going to be really grateful for my two daughters

and I'm going to find joy and peace inside this boundary that I've drawn so firmly in the dirt.

Because listen, any other choice is a choice to just continue to be miserable and angry.

And that harms you, that harms yours, marriage, that harms your kids.

Yeah, I think I've been circling around that for a while, but yeah, I guess I'm just afraid to commit to that being the path.

That's not what I had envisioned.

And is he as firm on that one?

Is he as firm as if I have a son?

I've been in enough locker rooms.

I've been through my life. What's wrong with me?

And I imagine he's taking this very personally if he is circumcised.

Like, what is so bad about me and all my brothers and what is this thing about my family that you think X-White?

This becomes a much bigger issue than just this one little thing.

That's why you're not on either.

This would be a very unique situation that this is the one issue that these things aren't showing up in other places in your marriage.

Yeah, and it is, it's an isolated issue.

He's a fantastic husband.

Wonderful father.

We have a good relationship.

So anytime I am faced with a deeply, deeply held value of which I've got several.

I'll tell you the way I've chosen to live my life.

You don't have to choose to do it this way.

I'm just telling you what I've done in my own life.

Like, my advice in this situation is pretty thin.

I don't have a lot of great advice for you.

But I'll tell you what I do.

I always make the assumption.

I always lead with an assumption that I might be wrong.

And so, when I have a deeply held value on something,

and somebody that I love and care about is on the other side of the issue,

whether it's religion, politics, policy, anything like that, cultural issues,

I always sit down with this question, could I be wrong here?

Teach me.

And not in a so I can win an argument, not so I can bury you.

That's not the point.

The point is, I'm about to make a major left or right turn in my life.

And I at least want the option to not look back when I'm 40 and go,

oh my gosh, I blew it on this.

And so, that's the only other thing I could tell you.

And if you've done that, if you've really tried to say,

okay, what's the other side of this?

Have I talked to physicians who do this kind of thing and listen to their argument?

Have I sat with people who haven't had this and wish they had,

like, whatever, have I done the work to say, ask the question,

could I be, is there another perspective on this?

Other than, this simply just is period.

And if you have, and you're like, great, I've heard the other sides,

I've sat with folks, I've listened to their arguments,

and I am further entrenched,

then the only other choice is to make peace with the wall that you've built for yourself.

Yeah, I think I really think I have listened as carefully as I can

and considered each perspective I could come across

and for sure listen respectfully to my husband and try to understand why

or see if I could, if I could give this often and come around to his side.

But I keep coming back to you that it's something that if a boy really wants it,

he can have it done later.

But once you do it, you can't do it.

And so, if a child grows up and wants to make that decision for themselves,

I have no problem with that, but I don't feel like I could be the one to decide for my child

and then potentially regret it at some point.

Okay.

Then I think your next option there is to exhale with your husband and say,

this is the, we're at an impasse here.

And so, this is the world we're co-creating.

And let's be over the moon all about our two daughters.

And let's build the best marriage we can on the back of this grief

that we thought our life was going to look like this and now it's going to look like this.

And what makes this especially challenging for both of you is

this is usually a conversation I have with somebody who loses a child

or who is, like, who life has done this to them.

This will be a little more complicated because y'all are choosing this together.

Yes, definitely not a choice I ever saw as changing such as the trajectory of my life.

Right.

And the fact that you can hold your husband's aside with dignity, I appreciate.

Like, it sounds like you're not just bashing him, he's a good man.

He's just said, I'm pretty firm on this.

When I have a lived experience of this, this side of this issue.

And my family has a lived experience.

My culture has a lived experience of this side of this issue.

What's your, uh, what's your brother's opinions?

I haven't directly spoken to any of them.

I would ask them the issue.

Ask them.

I, um.

I don't know how that would feel to ask.

I guess.

I guess you should get advice.

I probably should.

I don't know if it feels.

This is my because.

When I have asked my husband, we're bringing people into this conversation to help us see.

Maybe, you know, maybe you, something we haven't thought of.

Um, meeting with the pastor or something about it.

He's pretty opposed to that because he says this is an issue for him and I to figure out together.

It's.

It's our family.

It would be our decision.

And.

I think there's truth to that.

I do.

I think there's, I think there's, there's power in coming to this decision.

But also.

And you can tell me if I'm wrong.

I hear an underlying current that you're going to start asking yourself.

Do you want to stay in this marriage?

No, I don't think that's a factor.

Okay.

All right.

So.

It's not like.

It's not pervasive.

It's not like.

It's not like.

Controlling me telling me I can't ask advice and things like that.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I'm just talking about.

If you look up in six years.

And you have your two daughters and they're getting older.

You will both look at each other and start to resent each other.

If you're not careful.

Yeah, that's something that I am concerned about like long-term moving forward.

But I guess I mentioned regret.

But.

Yeah, if we have to go one way or the other.

Or no, we not let it affect our future in a negative way.

Well, you both just say we made the choice.

But that that's where I would be interested.

That's it.

I would be interested in somebody's lived experience.

That's why the physicians who do this surgery.

I'd want to know, hey, this looks barbaric and evil and awful to me.

Can you walk me through what actually happens here?

Can you walk me through pain threshold, repair, clear all that kind of stuff?

I remember, and again, this doesn't equate in any way, shape, form, or fashion.

Okay.

I remember seeing the umbilical cord cut and healed.

And it looked so gnarly.

It looked catastrophic.

And I couldn't imagine that that was not the most painful thing in the whole wide world ever, ever, ever.

But the look of what I was looking at wasn't accurate.

Right.

There's no nerve endings in an umbilical cord.

So again, I didn't know that.

I'm just looking at this thing going, oh my gosh, this has to be the worst thing.

And it wasn't.

I was wrong.

And so I would want to get lived experience from a physician.

I'd want to get lived experiences of guys who you have a lived experience of a husband who's pretty firmly committed to.

No, no, this is a big deal to me.

But you also have an opportunity to talk to your brothers.

And so I wouldn't, I would do that in concert with your husband.

I would say, hey, I want to get some more wisdom on this.

I want to try to learn some more.

And I'm going to ask some guys that I know who happened to be adults who aren't circumcised.

Like, hey, what's your opinion on this matter?

I think that'd be worth asking them.

They've had the lived experience.

I always want to go as close to a source as possible when I'm trying to figure out values.

But yeah, if this is an impasse, and it's not we're choosing one or the other, we're choosing neither.

Then we're going to grieve it.

We're going to be super sad because we had a different picture for our life.

And then we're going to go be about making joy inside of the boundaries we've co-created together.

Because any other choice is a choice to be resentful, be angry, be bitter.

And I refuse to do that to live a whole life like that.

Life is hard enough with external stuff coming our way.

So the choices I make in my life in the middle, the jobs I didn't take, the things I didn't do, the houses I didn't buy, whatever.

I am going to choose to put a period into that sentence, grieve it, be really sad.

And then get on about my life.

And that's really hard to do.

But I think that's our call.

As parents, as partners, as just citizens.

It's the next right move.

Or do I find joy in whatever place I found myself, especially when it's a place of my own choosing.

Thanks for the call, sister.

It's a complicated issue.

And I appreciate you being honest and sitting with me.

Let me sit with you.

Let me know what you all decided to do.

I'm kind of invested in this now. I'm interested in what happens next.

So make sure you let us know how it's going and we'll be thinking about you.

We come back. A man asks how much should he involve his kids on an upcoming move.

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All right, it's got to North Carolina and talk to Andrew. What's up, Andrew?

Hey, Dr. John, how are you?

I'm good, brother. How are you, ma'am?

I'm doing well. Thank you. I'm prepared for this storm coming in.

Yeah, dude, worse. It's still sitting on top of us and it is a doozy.

It's a doozy. What's up with you?

So my question is, I'll just get straight to the point is how much should I involve my kids in this decision to move?

They're a little bit older.

So that's why I'm a bit of a crossroads with it. They're 16 and 13.

Tell me about the move.

So I'm getting ready to retire from the military and into summer and kind of looking at what's going to be next.

The kids are in high school. We've moved quite a bit of nine times in about like 13 years or something to that effect.

And so we told them whenever we got here, this was kind of going to be it.

We're going to stick around in North Carolina for a while.

But quite frankly, I don't care for it here, but life doesn't care for it here.

And so we have this opportunity coming up to look to relocate.

But kids being the ages that they are, it just seems a bit unfair to them.

And so that's the back and forth that I have in my head.

We said this was going to be stable for you.

However, I don't remember your mom and I are miserable here.

How old are they?

16 and 13.

And what's this new opportunity? Where is it?

It's not necessarily said in stonia.

It's just I don't see finding a job in this area because it's a bit smaller.

And so we're looking for somewhere looking at you know in another state.

So one.

Like you said, you're going to need a job.

You and your wife have to be connected and decide where y'all are going to be and what kind of life you want to have.

Right.

And so a miserable, grouchy, grumpy, purposeless mom and dad is not a healthy home for two kids.

Right. You know that.

Right.

And stability.

That's important too.

And so I think the challenge for you, you gave your life to public service, which is extraordinary.

And with that commitment came a lot of moves, a lot of reassigned all the time,

which meant a lot of new schools, which meant a lot of your wife finding new grocery stores, all that kind of stuff.

Right. You've been through all that.

The question your wife have to ask is, where does stability exist when my kids have moved so many times?

And that stability has to be, has to be found anchored into you to and to your love and commitment to them.

Meaning wherever we live, we are.

You get what I'm saying?

And so I guess it's a balance of if you told them, hey, this is it.

We're never going to move again.

We promise we're not going to move you to high school.

And then suddenly you have an opportunity in another place, then y'all going to have to sit down and say,

we told you something and we were wrong.

We should not have said what we said.

And then they get to be sad and upset and y'all are liars in your mean.

And because they're kids, they're teenagers.

And that's part of the deal.

What you've learned here is I'm not going to make next year or year after that or year after that promises.

Because I don't know what the world holds.

I will tell my kids, I promise we're going to do the best we can to stay here.

I or be even better yet.

We have to move again.

We got we got reassigned again.

And this is the worst.

And I'll just sit here in this discomfort with you.

I'm not going to try to take away the discomfort by making a promise.

Like this is the last move that you get I'm saying.

So you can tell them we learned this lesson.

I spoke with absolutes and I shouldn't have it.

I'm sorry guys.

And by teaching them that their dad says the words I was wrong.

I'm sorry.

Teaches them wisdom.

Teaches them strength.

Teaches them accountability.

Ownership.

Whatever you want to call it.

And that's a powerful, powerful lesson.

I suppose I just feel selfish on my end.

And that's maybe where it's coming from.

If you don't have a job, that's not selfish.

If you have a good job and you just like aren't fulfilled or aren't following your passion.

Yeah, that's selfish.

Men are supposed to go do hard things and support their families.

Right.

And so if you don't have a job, that's not selfish.

Well, I mean, I guess the could I find something in this area, right?

What I enjoy probably not, but could I find something that it's sure?

You know what I'm saying?

Like it's I don't want to again speak in absolutes like you say, but it's.

It's not going to be anything.

With what, you know, the lines with what I've been doing in the military.

Not that it has to, but.

It doesn't matter.

I'm really experiencing it.

That makes any sense.

And point being like it, you know, I could find something sure, but.

Some stability, but then that just I think of it like my God.

So there is, you know, my oldest will be going into her junior year.

And then my youngest is still in what seventh grade.

I'm just thinking to my head, my God, that is another five or six years here.

Or it's two or it's two.

Well, yeah, I mean, right.

It's we're going to get her through her senior year.

Right as your young one is going into high school.

And that's we're going to move.

What she's got, it's heard.

She did like an early college.

So it's three more years for her, really.

So the age is getting that weird.

Yeah, I mean, here's a deal.

It's all weird.

What I hear like underneath all of this is you're not going to anything.

You're just running.

What I'll tell you is like you may have heard me say this before, but.

The worst part about whatever new job you take after the military and wherever you live.

Is that you're going to go with you.

And so if you have that internal.

I don't know who I am.

I don't know what I'm going to do.

I don't like myself.

I'm tired.

I'm all those things that those are going to end up at whatever state town job you go to.

Already deciding I'm going to hate whatever a job I get here.

I mean, it's a bold prediction.

Or that's an interest.

That's a choice to frame what happens next in a certain way before it even happens.

And my wife and I have lived in several communities in our 23 and a half years where we look at each other.

And one or both of us are like, we have to leave now.

Like, let's go first, first train out.

We're going.

I'm in there.

Right.

And I had somebody that I care about and love challenged me and say, and I quote,

what kind of dad do you think you are?

End quote.

Because my son moved a lot between grad schools and me taking different jobs, etc.

He moved a lot.

And I've got a deep.

My son moved more by the time he was five than I didn't up until I was 30 something.

He has a very different childhood.

And I have 40 plus year friendships because I lived on the same street growing up.

He doesn't have that.

And he has an ability to walk in a room and genuinely be happy to meet any number of people

because that's how he's had to adapt to his life.

I don't have that.

He does.

You know what I'm saying?

You know, you understand and I do give a point about, you know, you fall into this habit

sometimes that when you get some place and you look around and all the factors like,

I don't like it here.

I don't want to be here.

It's not what I thought it was going to be.

When's the next thing?

Where's the next thing?

And, you know, you never really get to be with yourself.

And so, I mean, that's kind of where I had that too in some ways because it's like,

well, you know, if only we lived in X town and in this house with this, you know,

job or what have you been in everything.

But I understand it won't.

But I guess it should, like I said, it's maybe the last little still there of hope, if you will.

Sure.

And there is some truth.

Sometimes going to a new house and a new community makes all the difference.

Sometimes being in a job that is aligned perfectly, magically happens and it's awesome.

I mean, it really is.

Anyone who tells you otherwise, it's not.

I drove a truck that I was always worried about falling apart until I finally got a new one.

And I'm not going to lie.

It's awesome.

It starts every time I turn it on, right?

So that's cool.

It is.

It actually is.

But if I had hoped that that new truck or that new house or that new place was going to suddenly make me look in the mirror and be like,

ah, that's not going to happen.

There are two things I always tell kids.

Number one, this is my kids and this is what I recommend anybody.

Never, ever rob them of the beauty and the wisdom lesson of saying I was wrong or things have changed.

Or life circumstances have changed.

That will be an incredible gift from their father.

The next thing is I never put the full burden on them.

Meaning, hey, I'm about to get out of the military.

It's looking like things are changing yet again.

And I made all a promise only here directly from you.

But know this.

Your mom and I are going to make the final decision.

Because if kids think that their dad is miserable because they want to stay in high school, they can't carry that weight of your emotional health.

And if they think they're in charge of where the family lives, they can't carry that weight either.

And so letting them know, I want to hear you, but your mom and I are making the final call.

Okay.

Is a gift and they're going to be mad and frustrated because I'm 16.

I know everything.

They don't.

But it feels like it and they're going to get mad.

Lots of big emotions.

All that's normal.

But giving them permission to be heard and then not letting them know for sure you don't hold the final card here.

I do.

Your mom does.

Is a gift.

I just want you to be sure you're going to something not running from something.

How long have you been service?

Just about 20 years.

Okay.

Here in a couple months.

And my experience sitting with veterans, my whole career, that's hard.

Being told where to live, what to do, where to go, all that kind of stuff for 20 years and suddenly being released to the wild.

That's a, that's a hard thing.

Is that fair?

There's, you know, that that I feel a bit sure, you know, there's.

A lot of uncertainty just, you know.

Transition wise for me just because I got, you know,

because later on my career, some injuries and everything, so that's right.

And so be honest and open about those fears.

Am I going to still have utility out in the world?

I am now responsible for where we live and what job I take, which means I am now responsible for my joy and happiness and stability.

And it's, it's simply a skill that I'm going to work on because I haven't had that.

It's a skill that's atrophied because I outsource that to this unit for 20 years.

I'm not this unit, but to this, to this career for 20 years.

And so cool.

I've got to learn some new skills and getting under that new squat rack.

It's going to be hard.

My hips are going to hurt.

My knees are going to hurt.

And by the way, I've got some injuries in both of those things.

You know what I'm saying?

It's when my buddies who are veterans and the people I've sat with, when they're not honest about,

hey, this is scary.

And I see all these other civilians doing it.

And it should be easy.

I've done all these other hard things.

It's just a skill, right?

It's like football players trying to play basketball sometimes.

It looks hilarious.

This is different skill.

I mean, they're not great athletes and they're not really amazing at what they did.

It's just this is different now.

And so I'm going to be honest about all of it.

But you spending some time dig into where do I want to go and who do I want to be and asking your wife,

who do we want to be now that we are making all of the decisions for us?

Getting unity and alignment on that and anchoring into that.

That's priority number one.

And not going into every situation just assuming it's going to be the worst ever.

And I'm going to hate it and I'm not going to like it.

Maybe, but maybe not.

Instead of saying, I am going to go make the best opportunity here.

I'm going to go do this stuff.

I'm going to work this hard job so that my kids get to you get to make all those choices.

But we're not going to chase feelings.

We're going to chase.

What's the next right move?

I'm really honored for your call, brother.

Thanks for your service.

Thanks for being with us and thanks for trusting me with like how to have these conversations.

Call anytime.

I'll walk with you anytime, brother.

It's an honor.

Bring them along, but don't make them carry the weight.

Kids cannot carry that weight.

We'll be right back.

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All right, we're back. What's up, Kelly?

I would like you to spend a couple of minutes talking about the new app.

Okay.

And it's kind of telling us instead of it being like, here's all the talking points and why we should sell it.

Like, which, I mean, you know.

I know we're both getting hit up, like, a commercial.

Yeah, exactly.

But I want people to hear why you created it, why it's been such a passionate project for you.

Because this has been a long time in the making for those that like aren't on the side of it that know.

And I know how hard you worked on it and the meetings we're in and just all that's involved with it.

But instead of marketing it.

Yeah, yeah.

Tell us why you created it and what you're more importantly, even the why you created it, what your hope is for people that use it.

I think the most important thing people need to know is I fought against this thing for over a year.

I didn't want to, I just, I don't use a lot of apps.

I don't like going to apps for stuff.

I fought and fought and fought over it.

And when I saw with the, there's a small team of developers that have been working on this thing side by side with me for a long time.

When I saw what they were putting out, I thought, okay, this is going to be a game changer.

At the end of the day, what I'm hearing across the country, private conversations, big conversations from stage and in personal and people's homes,

is I want to have a good or great marriage.

And I, I'm at a point now.

I don't know what to do next.

They won't do X, Y or Z.

I don't want to do X, Y or Z.

We've lost that love and feel and the spark is gone.

All those things.

And then quite honestly, underneath that, I'm looking at it at a generation that's just opting out.

Fewer people than ever are getting married.

And quite honestly, there's been a little snapshot in history that they didn't have to.

And they thought, I'm going to go chase this, these other things instead of co-creating a life with somebody with a right or die.

And so I say all those things on the show, like, you got to pick a right or die and you all got to be in this together and you all got to co-create values and all that stuff.

And the most common criticism I get back is cool. That sounds great.

How do I do that?

And so what this app is, is us just taking it all the way to the very, very bottom.

How do I know what's the next right thing?

And what this app does is it texts you.

It learns you over time, but it asks what you're struggling with.

Work life balance, which is a myth.

Mental load, romance, loss of love and feeling like, what path do you want?

And it will walk with you and give you an action step or two to do every day.

And it literally will just pop up on your phone and say, go do this.

And I want people to stop thinking everything through all of the time, which sounds counterintuitive.

We've got to start acting our way towards the lives we want.

And I just, if I've heard it so much over the last four or five years, I don't know what to do.

That's this app. I got you. It's a micro habits for your marriage.

Okay. Explain that word because in a lot of the marketing that we're seeing around the building is micro habits.

So if anyone's seeing any of the ads, you'll see that word micro habits. Explain that, please.

When it comes to fitness, people are like, I'm going to lose 150 pounds. That's a great goal.

What does that actually mean and how do we do that?

And the data tells us that most people have a goal like that and they never see it through.

A micro habit is taking this end goal. I want to have a great marriage.

All right. So I'm going to get chocolates and I'm going to do the dishes every night and I'm always going to want to have sex.

And it's impossible. You can't, it's not how it works.

You're trying to start from the fireworks show back, right?

So a micro habit is what is a small action step I can take on a regular basis that begins to shift how I see and know and celebrate my spouse.

And so instead of being like, I don't know what you'll get an ill pop up on your phone.

I don't care how mad you are. I don't care how annoyed you are. Whatever.

Go make her favorite cup of coffee and go put it by her bed before she wakes up.

Exactly how she likes it. If you don't know how she likes it, then you don't know your wife. Go find that out.

And or do one chore that's not normally yours or write one sticky note and go outside and start his car form in the cold and put it on his dashboard.

Like it's a small little steps over time and they're just micro habits. And what happens is like James clear talks about when you want to, if you want to get in shape,

spend a week or two, just drive to the gym and sit in the parking lot for a minute or two and then drive home.

We're going to that's a micro habit towards changing your actions, which is a wake up when I go to the gym and then exercise.

Go get on one treadmill for one minute and then get off. That's what we're headed towards.

We are just coaching folks on here's the next right step in your marriage.

And so it's breaking it down as small as possible to make a bite size and actionable.

And the feedback we've got on this app, we've been testing it for forever.

It's just extraordinary. It's pretty amazing. So I'm excited about it.

So that's the app in a nutshell. This is me in a nutshell. What's that from?

Oh, yeah.

Awesome.

Awesome.

I'm in a nutshell.

Man, that cool came, I don't know where that cool came from.

But yeah, go check it out. You can download it in the app store, search together in the app store.

And yes, Android folks, I get it. We're coming for you.

Just take about 30% off, maybe 40% off.

But if you got an iPhone, go check it out in the app store. Love you guys.

Bye.