Loading...
Loading...

The Strait of Hormuz has been effectively closed by Iran for more than a fortnight, preventing vital supplies of oil and gas from leaving the Middle East and sending global fuel prices soaring. Some 20% of the world’s oil and liquefied natural gas is usually carried through the narrow corridor by around 3000 ships a month. Iran has targeted ships in the area, and it is estimated that over 20 vessels have been hit and at least eight people killed. We bring together sailors to share their experiences of navigating the Strait of Hormuz. After President Trump said oil tanker crews should show “some guts” and continue to sail through the Strait, we also bring together seafarer organisations concerned for the welfare of their members stuck on ships in the Gulf.
This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK.
Today's episode is sponsored by Smart Travel, a podcast from NerdWallet.
You know that one friend who always finds the best travel deals, picks the right credit cards,
and somehow ends up in first class for the price of coach. Smart Travel is like that friend,
but in podcast form. NerdWallet's travel journalist sought out what's worth paying for,
from lounge access to travel advisors to hotel loyalty programs, make your travel dollars work harder.
Follow Smart Travel on your favourite podcast app. Investing with Schwab is like a hike,
with endless trails that get you to the same beautiful sunset. Go solo with self-directed investing.
Choose a guide with full service wealth management, or take stops along the way,
with trading, automated investing, and planning for college or retirement.
Schwab gives you the map and the gear, all in one place.
No matter which trails you take, you can invest your way, with Schwab.
Hello, I'm James Reynolds. Welcome to the documentary from the BBC World Service.
In BBC conversations, we bring people together to share their experiences. This time,
what's it like to be a sailor in the strait of hormones?
Boarded by Iran to the north, and the UAE and Oman to the south, the strait of hormones,
is vital to the world's energy needs. Some 20% of global oil and liquefied natural gas is usually
carried through the narrow corridor by around 3,000 ships a month. But since the US and Israel
attacked Iran, the country has, in effect, blocked the strait, sending global fuel prices soaring.
Iran has targeted ships in the area. It's estimated that over 20 vessels have been hit,
and at least 8 people killed. In our conversations, we wanted to get a sense of what it's like
to be a sailor navigating the strait of hormones. Later, we'll hear concerns for the seafarers
trapped on ships in the region worried about supplies of fresh water, food, fuel.
Firstly, we're going to hear from three people familiar with the area.
Captain John Noble is a former marine surveyor who's spent a lot of time in the southern Persian Gulf.
Tom Sauer is a former US naval officer, and Sal Medcogliano was a deck officer in commercial shipping.
The strait of hormones is one of those narrow little maritime choke points. It's not as
quite as congested as the English Channel or the strait of Malacca, but there's steady traffic
through it. You have a lot of small little craft, dows, and fishing vessels there,
and you're always kind of very aware that right off, as you sail into the strait of hormones,
right off your right side of the starboard side, is Iran. You can see it as you pass by.
What kind of precautions do you take? It depends on the nature. Obviously, during different times,
there are concerns about it. Lots of times, you have to worry about the IRGC,
the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps coming out with their boats. There's usually some sort of
harassment or radio calls on the VHF channel that you get, but most of the time you're able to
sail through without really any major issues. But from time to time, Iran has made a point
of targeting ships coming in and out of that strait. So, Sal, you worked as a commercial
deck officer, but let's bring in Tom for a US naval officer. What did you need to do in the
Persian Gulf from a naval, from a military point of view, to keep the channel open?
When we would transit through my first ship, when I was a young junior officer,
a USS Cure Sarge, we would often try to transit at night, because we, of course,
did not want the Iranians to know where our ships were. The Cure Sarge was a very large ship.
It's a small aircraft carrier, in essence. We would reconfigure the lights on our ship to make
us look like a merchant vessel. So, the Iranians wouldn't, because they don't have,
yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's called deceptive lighting. We would only broadcast with our civilian
radar. We'd turn all of our military radars off, and we would just transit through quietly,
because usually at night, at, I mean, 24-7, there's a ton of merchant traffic going through,
and at night, it's very dark on the ocean, and the only way you can see ships into the light thing.
And furthermore, also, to piggyback on what Sal said, we would get harassed on VHF,
you know, the commercial radio station, they'd scream obscenities at us quite often,
they constantly query us, and then another time, we'll just send it back out.
No, we're for, oh, we wanted to. You have to sit there on the bridge and just don't respond,
while you're on the bridge on a quiet bridge, transiting, paying attention while you've got
Iranian screaming obscenities at you in English. And, oh, they, no, they play audio from pornography,
all sorts of terrible stuff, just to make your life miserable. And then additionally,
one time, we did transit out of the strait during the day, and during the day, while we were alongside,
we had just left the strait, and we were pulled up alongside our supply, a refueling ship,
and we're connected side to side, getting gas. And during that time, we were overflowing,
we were essentially, as we'd say, buzzed by an Iranian P3. And I was on the flight deck at that time,
and I saw a P3 coming, which is a four-engine patrol craft that's meant to find other vessels.
And I thought, oh, hey, there's one of our planes. They're flying over. And as it got closer,
I said, wait, the paint scheme doesn't look like ours. And he flew right over us, and we saw
the Iranian flag, and he got low enough. I could see the pilot from where he was, that close. Yeah,
they do not like us being in their neighborhood. Captain John Noble, let's bring you into the conversation.
Were you, as Sal was aware of the proximity of Iran, which even at the best of times,
had an incredibly tense relationship with the West and Western vessels?
Very much so. I mean, we would be working, for example, off Abu Dhabi and Iranian patrol
craft would come and have a look and see what we were doing. Our operations were completely commercial.
There was no military aspect at all, but the Iranians did want to know what was going on.
Did you tell them?
No, we didn't say anything to them. Right, so like Tom, you kept your silence. And let's bring
back in, Sal, former commercial, deck officer. At any point, did you have to go through drills on
your ship about what happened if things got really serious? Oh, we would. I mean, that was always
an issue. Everything from boarding operations to damage control. That was routine. Again,
every mariner on board a ship is a firefighter. The issue on commercial ships, unlike Tom's
voyage through is we have much smaller crews on board, so we have less capability to do it.
And so we were always prepared for really any contingency. And depending on when you
went through that region, it could be different threats. The small both threats, missiles,
and then there's always the danger of mines. And Tom, presumably you were on standby to pick up
calls from vessels like South saying, look, we might need your help.
Yes, absolutely. We had a number of attack helicopters, conventional, you know, passenger
helicopters, and hair ears as well at that time. And also my ship had a thousand sailors and
two thousand marines who were very eager to kill anyone that we would let them kill. So we were
very much, you know, they're the US Marines. So they were ready for a fight.
And Tom, what kind of your experience? What kind of insight does that give you into what's
happening right now in the strait? Well, after my career as a service warfare officer, I became
what's called a Navy EOD officer, a bomb disposal officer, a better known in the UK as a clearance
diver. Our job is to dismantle mines. So right now I am in close communication with all of my friends
who are in the Persian Gulf right now who are preparing most likely for a contingency to clear
the strait of Hormuz. And it is something that I can say that the United States Navy has been
planning and preparing and training for for longer than I have been alive. And Captain John
Noble, given the situation at the moment, if you were called and said, look, we've got a job for
you. It means you have to go back to the southern Persian Gulf not far from the strait of Hormuz.
Would you consider accepting that job? Yes, at the end of the day,
as a civilian operator, you're relying on the military to defend you. But you've still got a job
to do. And there is good liason and there certainly was a my day between the military forces and
the civilians who were working there. So yes, it's a bit nerve-wracking. But at the same time,
you've got a job to do so you just get on to do it. You know, we talk about the strait of Hormuz being
this narrow little choke point. But in truth, the entire Persian Gulf is, I mean, it's only 100
miles wide and it's widest point. You're always kind of right there in the shadow of Iran as you
head all the way up to Kuwait and Iraq. So, I mean, there's always that kind of omnipresent view of
that Iran is there and they can always make your day very bad. On a clear day, Sal, just because what
could you actually see of the Iranian coast? You get very hazy days in the Iran in the Persian Gulf.
I mean, I was at a dock where we got hit by a sand storm and we had zero visibility. But you
can't have those clear days where actually you are within sight. You can see the Iranian coast.
I mean, it's it's brown mountainous. But you do see a lot of traffic in and out. So a lot of
fishing boats, a lot of Iranian small coastal boats in and around and then the ever present, you know,
oil tankers and natural gas carriers. I mean, you just that's that's what's kind of the heart
there of the Persian Gulf. Tom, I imagine you have pretty good binoculars being on a U.S.
naval ship. But did you spend a lot of time looking at that coast? Yes, we absolutely did. And not
just transiting the strait, but all over. And yeah, you could see the mountains and all that in
various parts, whether it's along the strait or elsewhere in the Persian Gulf. Later, my later
years, I worked on a smaller ship and we were at the Iraqi oil terminals, which was only about
about two miles from Iranian territorial waters. And I routinely had RPGs pointed at us by the
Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps Navy just outside of Iraqi territorial waters in 2008, 2009.
What did you feel as your ship sailed away? You know, being in the Persian Gulf in the U.S. Navy
is always a very, you know, can be a little stressful at times. But hey, that's what we paid for.
That's what we signed up for. And that's where therefore, but I can definitely say that usually,
once we let, usually, once we left the Persian Gulf, that meant that we were heading home,
usually. And it was just, and the ocean opens up. There's a little less traffic and everyone breathes
and sleeps a little easier. Sal, Tom, and John, sharing their experiences of navigating the region
around the strait of Hormuz. I'm James Reynolds. You're listening to The Documentary from the BBC
World Service.
And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on
car insurance with Liberty Mutual, even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show.
Hey, everyone, check out this guy and his bird. What is this your first day?
Oh, no. We help people customize and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together.
We're married. Need a human, him to a bird.
Yeah, the bird looks out of your league anyways.
Only pay for what you need at Liberty Mutual.com.
So you're running out of closet space. The good news? You don't need to stop shopping.
You just need to start selling with the real real. The real real is the world's largest and most
trusted resource for authenticated luxury resale, whether it's that mini bag that can't even
fit your phone. Or those boots you never fully broke in. The real real handles everything,
from photography and copywriting to shipping and pricing. So you can just sit back, get paid,
and make room for things that actually feel like you. And with 10,000 plus new arrivals every
single day from top designers like Prada, Selene, Louis Vuitton, and Louis Vé, all for up to 90%
off retail. You're bound to find something perfectly on brand to fill that extra closet space
with. Plus, right now, you can get an extra $100 to shop when you sell for the first time.
Make room for what feels like you. Go to the realreal.com to start selling and get your extra $100
to keep shopping at the realreal.com. That's the realreal.com. Terms apply.
Market protections. Here, global companies manufacture life-saving medicines,
advanced technologies, and critical products at scale. And with competitive tax incentives
designed to support investment and expansion, companies don't just start here. They grow here.
Not culture or business. Culture and business. Puerto Rico. It's not what's next. It's where.
Visit investpr.org forward slash business.
During this latest conflict, the US has not so far deployed any warships to the
strait of hormones. Instead, it's targeted the Iranian Navy from the air and Iranian
anti-ship cruise missile sites along the coast. A recent call by President Trump for other countries,
including both US allies and China to help secure the strait by sending warships met with
little enthusiasm. And the level of enthusiasm matters to me. We have some countries where we have
45,000 soldiers, great soldiers protecting them from harm's way. And we have done a great job.
And when we want to know, do you have any minesweepers? Well, we'd rather not get involved,
sir. President Trump, speaking on Monday, the previous week, he told Fox News that oil tanker
crews should show some guts and continue to sail through the strait of hormones.
On Thursday, the UK, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, and Japan put out a joint statement
expressing readiness to contribute appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the strait.
However, there are a few details about what those efforts might look like.
As we record this program on Friday lunchtime, Iran appears to be allowing a limited number
of ships through its waters. But for the vast majority, this vital shipping channel remains blocked.
That leaves hundreds of ships and thousands of sailors stranded in the Persian Gulf.
To get a sense of what those seafarers are facing, my colleague Rahul Tandon brought together
Alexander Brokobakis. He's the executive director of the International Bunker Industry Association.
They represent the industry that refills ships at sea. And Jacqueline Smith is the maritime
coordinator for the International Transport Workers Federation. Federation has been receiving
messages from crews. What they're saying is that they're frightened. They don't know what's
going on. They're wondering when they'll be able to get out of the area for those that are stuck
there. They're asking if they can go home. But recently they've been contacting us because they're
concerned that they're going low on provisions. For us, a major concern about what you just mentioned
is spoofing and jamming. There are instances where we know vessels of our members had
a direct attack. And they were not able to contact the crew. And that's unfortunate.
I'm very pleased that Jacqueline mentioned that she had some more assumptions,
had direct contact with her colleagues. Because what we see right now is a lot of information,
flooding, people and wrong messages can be put around us. We live in a very dangerous
unprecedented in some cases situation because it's unfortunate that sipping in our seafarers
have been attacked and they have no partner in this thing. It is a very difficult situation
for seafarers. And I presume for their families as well, you must be in touch with families
your organisations of some of those seafarers going into that area who must be extremely worried
at the moment, Alexander. They are. And we come to a critical point that the majority of the
vessels are out of the area if you see it on a global scale. But there's always concern of the
families of the seafarers. What if my management company, my charger, asked me to go there
and how this will be handled. And there's a lot of things. There is an economic factor of course
because they will get more money if that happens. Then we have contradictory messages
like the very uncalled for and I said it last week, the very uncalled from President Trump's
message to show some guts. These are not helping the industry and definitely are not helping
the unified message that even thing I'd have said is that the number one concern of all of us
should be human life and attention on the seafarers. So we feel for them, we feel the concerns
that they have for the ones that they are inside and what will happen. And of course,
to the ones in the probability that they will be asked to come there. We try to get information
we as an association always say to to be very cautious and take the best measures for the best
way to avoid the area. It is concerning for the families and there have been several family
members that have contacted us. Unfortunately, we've dealt with or dealing with one case where
a seafarer has lost his life. So the the daughter and son have been in contact with us and we're
trying to deal with that issue. I'm I'm really pleased that Alexander is also an agreement about
and I know that the industry is an agreement that this is an unacceptable situation.
This is and for for governments leaders of governments to say that the seafarers need to show
some guts. These are very brave human beings that transport 90% of everything and they deserve
better than saying, you know, you have to take a chance. It's easy to tell someone to take a chance
when it's not you risking your life or someone that you love. Jacqueline, a lot of the seafarers come
from places like the Philippines and India don't don't they? And is it harder for them in a way
because economically they have to work. They're providing for their families back home. Are you
getting a sense of hearing from seafarers who feel under a lot of pressure to maybe go on trips
that maybe they don't want to go on? We've moved on a bit within the industry so a lot of seafarers
they do enjoy the job and I understand why. It's it's a fantastic. It can be a fantastic career.
But yeah, of course, you know, they come from developing economic countries and they want to
provide a better better life for their families and make sure that their children get an education
but even seafarers that when I've done ship visits, they want to encourage their children to go
to sea for some of the seafarers. The biggest thing is is that it's a lot of months away from home.
The standard is nine months plus minus a month on board and then they're home for two or three
months and they go back out again. So they are there because they want to make good money,
of course, and to be able to provide for their family. But they also see opportunities because
a lot of seafarers they end up taking work within the industry itself on shore. Alexander,
can I ask you, it's difficult to get a picture as native of what's going on within the
strait. We know that some ships, Indian ships have been able to go through the strait of
homies. We know that other ships may have been being attacked. What picture are you getting from
your members of what it's like inside the strait of homies at the moment? A picture that we get
is uncertainty in fear. That's for sure. This uncertainty of what's going on because you
might think you're in a safe area and nothing has happened near you because as you can understand,
it is with we say it's the strait of homies, but it is a big area. So in some situation,
the crew, the vessel, the owners feel they are safe. But then we hear next to you,
unfortunately, not in your ship, an attack and you know, this fear automatically comes
to everybody how this will develop. The same goes to port levels. We know about
attacks and infrastructure in port. So it is a situation that at the least it is
uncomfortable, but I think fear is the one that is more described. And you know, that's the worst
thing, as I said before, about seafarers, that it is a great job to be in, but what they have to
go through with the situation right now, it's really unfair. I think Alexander, that majority of
people don't really understand the important work that they do. We've always called the
industry, we call them the unsung heroes. And we did that under COVID, which was why we got them
to find as key workers. But people don't understand that we're talking about on the news, it's a lot
about ships being stuck. Well, seafarers being stuck on ships in the area. That's the reality of it.
And then we're talking about, oh, inflation, but why should seafarers be risking their lives
so that we keep the inflation down? They didn't start this, they didn't start the hostilities,
and they shouldn't be the ones having to pay a price. And as you mentioned,
Lecline mentioned a very good point that about essential workers and people, unfortunately,
haven't done a very good job in the industry that we move 80 to 90% of the trade, the goods in the
world. And, you know, if sipping would start, all economies with no exception would collapse
in 90 days. So what is the backbone of sipping that support the economy? Seafarers. They are
the A to Z. And unfortunately, they're in a very bad situation. I like that simple said,
they had nothing to do with it. They just caught exactly what we hear in the movies in the
crossfire. And this is very unfortunate. Yeah, and that's one of the things because everyone's
trying to talk about how to get them out. Well, I think the only safe way to get them out is
if the hostility stop. That's just how it is. You know, I know there's conversations about naval
forces, convoys, but I don't think that at least if I've been a seafarer, I don't know if I want
to go in the convoi and then put a target on my back for siding with one one side or the other.
So the only way to that this is going to is going to be better for the seafarers if they stop
their hostilities. And the provisions, you know, when you start getting low on provisions,
then governments need to consider how can they get the provisions out? You're talking about fuel,
you're talking about water, you're talking about food. And that has to come out to those
ships that are stuck and they're most likely stuck on anchorage. So I'd like to see governments
starting to take some have some real conversations on how to ensure that those provisions are replenished.
It's a small hotel. You need everything. They need food, they need water, they need supplies.
But again, at the end, they need fuel because, you know, even if you had provision because you
weren't able to get them, the straight-off movement and the Gulf fairy over there, but we need to know,
it's the third largest bunker in part of the world. So people will expect him in or out,
they might have got fuel and now they're in a situation that they cannot get the fuel.
So you might have provisions, you might not have fuel. A lot could be vice versa. So
it's a situation that you handle that. It's very, very hard. And, you know, if there were the
vessels that they would do the long voyages and the ports weren't convenient, they're liking
enough and they're fooling both, then okay, but, you know, it will come to a point as long as this
situation continues that they need to get provisions, water, leave out the garbage. It's small
things that it's not one or the other. It's a lot of things that they go in the operation of the vessel.
And I think the biggest challenge was that no one knew this was coming. So if they knew
of things were going to happen, they could prepare better, but we didn't know it was coming. It just
all of a sudden, it starts and then they're stuck. That's why what is the IMO? I think they've
estimated 20,000 seafarers are stuck in the area. So that's a lot.
The IMO, of course, the International Maritime Organization, final thoughts from both of you
here. And picking up on that point, Jacqueline, that you made there about people not being
being ready for this. Unfortunately, we live in this uncertain time. So would there have been much
preparation? How do seafarers, are they prepared for these sorts of situations arising?
Will they have training to go? Because it must be incredibly stressful for them, mentally,
physically. There's been more focus on seafarers mental health from the industry in the last
probably four years, which is really good. But I don't think that you can really prepare for this.
Those some of the ships operating in areas where there's piracy. So they might have some
idea about that. But to this scale, I don't think that anyone is.
Like nobody can ever be prepared on that. And what you're going to do, even if you know,
with you, you're going to stop going how early you're going to stop visiting the area. Because
the global trade cannot stop. And the only way to restore the shipping operations is ending the
conflict. And to resume the operations, there has to be diplomacy and peace. The world's just
gone crazy. Jacqueline and Alexander discussing the fate of seafarers in the Gulf. Our thanks to them
and to all of our guests this week. I'm James Reynolds. You've been listening to The Documentary
from the BBC. Well, it's us.
And Doug, there's nowhere I wouldn't go to help someone customize and save on car insurance
with Liberty Mutual. Even if it means sitting front row at a comedy show. Hey, everyone,
check out this guy in his bird. What is this your first date? Oh, no. We help people customize
and save on car insurance with Liberty Mutual together. We're married.
Meet a human, him to a bird. Yeah, the bird looks out of your league anyways.
Only pay for what you need at Liberty Mutual.com.
