Navigating the Strait of Hormuz

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Hello, I'm James Reynolds. Welcome to the documentary from the BBC World Service.

In BBC conversations, we bring people together to share their experiences. This time,

what's it like to be a sailor in the strait of hormones?

Boarded by Iran to the north, and the UAE and Oman to the south, the strait of hormones,

is vital to the world's energy needs. Some 20% of global oil and liquefied natural gas is usually

carried through the narrow corridor by around 3,000 ships a month. But since the US and Israel

attacked Iran, the country has, in effect, blocked the strait, sending global fuel prices soaring.

Iran has targeted ships in the area. It's estimated that over 20 vessels have been hit,

and at least 8 people killed. In our conversations, we wanted to get a sense of what it's like

to be a sailor navigating the strait of hormones. Later, we'll hear concerns for the seafarers

trapped on ships in the region worried about supplies of fresh water, food, fuel.

Firstly, we're going to hear from three people familiar with the area.

Captain John Noble is a former marine surveyor who's spent a lot of time in the southern Persian Gulf.

Tom Sauer is a former US naval officer, and Sal Medcogliano was a deck officer in commercial shipping.

The strait of hormones is one of those narrow little maritime choke points. It's not as

quite as congested as the English Channel or the strait of Malacca, but there's steady traffic

through it. You have a lot of small little craft, dows, and fishing vessels there,

and you're always kind of very aware that right off, as you sail into the strait of hormones,

right off your right side of the starboard side, is Iran. You can see it as you pass by.

What kind of precautions do you take? It depends on the nature. Obviously, during different times,

there are concerns about it. Lots of times, you have to worry about the IRGC,

the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps coming out with their boats. There's usually some sort of

harassment or radio calls on the VHF channel that you get, but most of the time you're able to

sail through without really any major issues. But from time to time, Iran has made a point

of targeting ships coming in and out of that strait. So, Sal, you worked as a commercial

deck officer, but let's bring in Tom for a US naval officer. What did you need to do in the

Persian Gulf from a naval, from a military point of view, to keep the channel open?

When we would transit through my first ship, when I was a young junior officer,

a USS Cure Sarge, we would often try to transit at night, because we, of course,

did not want the Iranians to know where our ships were. The Cure Sarge was a very large ship.

It's a small aircraft carrier, in essence. We would reconfigure the lights on our ship to make

us look like a merchant vessel. So, the Iranians wouldn't, because they don't have,

yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's called deceptive lighting. We would only broadcast with our civilian

radar. We'd turn all of our military radars off, and we would just transit through quietly,

because usually at night, at, I mean, 24-7, there's a ton of merchant traffic going through,

and at night, it's very dark on the ocean, and the only way you can see ships into the light thing.

And furthermore, also, to piggyback on what Sal said, we would get harassed on VHF,

you know, the commercial radio station, they'd scream obscenities at us quite often,

they constantly query us, and then another time, we'll just send it back out.

No, we're for, oh, we wanted to. You have to sit there on the bridge and just don't respond,

while you're on the bridge on a quiet bridge, transiting, paying attention while you've got

Iranian screaming obscenities at you in English. And, oh, they, no, they play audio from pornography,

all sorts of terrible stuff, just to make your life miserable. And then additionally,

one time, we did transit out of the strait during the day, and during the day, while we were alongside,

we had just left the strait, and we were pulled up alongside our supply, a refueling ship,

and we're connected side to side, getting gas. And during that time, we were overflowing,

we were essentially, as we'd say, buzzed by an Iranian P3. And I was on the flight deck at that time,

and I saw a P3 coming, which is a four-engine patrol craft that's meant to find other vessels.

And I thought, oh, hey, there's one of our planes. They're flying over. And as it got closer,

I said, wait, the paint scheme doesn't look like ours. And he flew right over us, and we saw

the Iranian flag, and he got low enough. I could see the pilot from where he was, that close. Yeah,

they do not like us being in their neighborhood. Captain John Noble, let's bring you into the conversation.

Were you, as Sal was aware of the proximity of Iran, which even at the best of times,

had an incredibly tense relationship with the West and Western vessels?

Very much so. I mean, we would be working, for example, off Abu Dhabi and Iranian patrol

craft would come and have a look and see what we were doing. Our operations were completely commercial.

There was no military aspect at all, but the Iranians did want to know what was going on.

Did you tell them?

No, we didn't say anything to them. Right, so like Tom, you kept your silence. And let's bring

back in, Sal, former commercial, deck officer. At any point, did you have to go through drills on

your ship about what happened if things got really serious? Oh, we would. I mean, that was always

an issue. Everything from boarding operations to damage control. That was routine. Again,

every mariner on board a ship is a firefighter. The issue on commercial ships, unlike Tom's

voyage through is we have much smaller crews on board, so we have less capability to do it.

And so we were always prepared for really any contingency. And depending on when you

went through that region, it could be different threats. The small both threats, missiles,

and then there's always the danger of mines. And Tom, presumably you were on standby to pick up

calls from vessels like South saying, look, we might need your help.

Yes, absolutely. We had a number of attack helicopters, conventional, you know, passenger

helicopters, and hair ears as well at that time. And also my ship had a thousand sailors and

two thousand marines who were very eager to kill anyone that we would let them kill. So we were

very much, you know, they're the US Marines. So they were ready for a fight.

And Tom, what kind of your experience? What kind of insight does that give you into what's

happening right now in the strait? Well, after my career as a service warfare officer, I became

what's called a Navy EOD officer, a bomb disposal officer, a better known in the UK as a clearance

diver. Our job is to dismantle mines. So right now I am in close communication with all of my friends

who are in the Persian Gulf right now who are preparing most likely for a contingency to clear

the strait of Hormuz. And it is something that I can say that the United States Navy has been

planning and preparing and training for for longer than I have been alive. And Captain John

Noble, given the situation at the moment, if you were called and said, look, we've got a job for

you. It means you have to go back to the southern Persian Gulf not far from the strait of Hormuz.

Would you consider accepting that job? Yes, at the end of the day,

as a civilian operator, you're relying on the military to defend you. But you've still got a job

to do. And there is good liason and there certainly was a my day between the military forces and

the civilians who were working there. So yes, it's a bit nerve-wracking. But at the same time,

you've got a job to do so you just get on to do it. You know, we talk about the strait of Hormuz being

this narrow little choke point. But in truth, the entire Persian Gulf is, I mean, it's only 100

miles wide and it's widest point. You're always kind of right there in the shadow of Iran as you

head all the way up to Kuwait and Iraq. So, I mean, there's always that kind of omnipresent view of

that Iran is there and they can always make your day very bad. On a clear day, Sal, just because what

could you actually see of the Iranian coast? You get very hazy days in the Iran in the Persian Gulf.

I mean, I was at a dock where we got hit by a sand storm and we had zero visibility. But you

can't have those clear days where actually you are within sight. You can see the Iranian coast.

I mean, it's it's brown mountainous. But you do see a lot of traffic in and out. So a lot of

fishing boats, a lot of Iranian small coastal boats in and around and then the ever present, you know,

oil tankers and natural gas carriers. I mean, you just that's that's what's kind of the heart

there of the Persian Gulf. Tom, I imagine you have pretty good binoculars being on a U.S.

naval ship. But did you spend a lot of time looking at that coast? Yes, we absolutely did. And not

just transiting the strait, but all over. And yeah, you could see the mountains and all that in

various parts, whether it's along the strait or elsewhere in the Persian Gulf. Later, my later

years, I worked on a smaller ship and we were at the Iraqi oil terminals, which was only about

about two miles from Iranian territorial waters. And I routinely had RPGs pointed at us by the

Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps Navy just outside of Iraqi territorial waters in 2008, 2009.

What did you feel as your ship sailed away? You know, being in the Persian Gulf in the U.S. Navy

is always a very, you know, can be a little stressful at times. But hey, that's what we paid for.

That's what we signed up for. And that's where therefore, but I can definitely say that usually,

once we let, usually, once we left the Persian Gulf, that meant that we were heading home,

usually. And it was just, and the ocean opens up. There's a little less traffic and everyone breathes

and sleeps a little easier. Sal, Tom, and John, sharing their experiences of navigating the region

around the strait of Hormuz. I'm James Reynolds. You're listening to The Documentary from the BBC

World Service.

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During this latest conflict, the US has not so far deployed any warships to the

strait of hormones. Instead, it's targeted the Iranian Navy from the air and Iranian

anti-ship cruise missile sites along the coast. A recent call by President Trump for other countries,

including both US allies and China to help secure the strait by sending warships met with

little enthusiasm. And the level of enthusiasm matters to me. We have some countries where we have

45,000 soldiers, great soldiers protecting them from harm's way. And we have done a great job.

And when we want to know, do you have any minesweepers? Well, we'd rather not get involved,

sir. President Trump, speaking on Monday, the previous week, he told Fox News that oil tanker

crews should show some guts and continue to sail through the strait of hormones.

On Thursday, the UK, France, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, and Japan put out a joint statement

expressing readiness to contribute appropriate efforts to ensure safe passage through the strait.

However, there are a few details about what those efforts might look like.

As we record this program on Friday lunchtime, Iran appears to be allowing a limited number

of ships through its waters. But for the vast majority, this vital shipping channel remains blocked.

That leaves hundreds of ships and thousands of sailors stranded in the Persian Gulf.

To get a sense of what those seafarers are facing, my colleague Rahul Tandon brought together

Alexander Brokobakis. He's the executive director of the International Bunker Industry Association.

They represent the industry that refills ships at sea. And Jacqueline Smith is the maritime

coordinator for the International Transport Workers Federation. Federation has been receiving

messages from crews. What they're saying is that they're frightened. They don't know what's

going on. They're wondering when they'll be able to get out of the area for those that are stuck

there. They're asking if they can go home. But recently they've been contacting us because they're

concerned that they're going low on provisions. For us, a major concern about what you just mentioned

is spoofing and jamming. There are instances where we know vessels of our members had

a direct attack. And they were not able to contact the crew. And that's unfortunate.

I'm very pleased that Jacqueline mentioned that she had some more assumptions,

had direct contact with her colleagues. Because what we see right now is a lot of information,

flooding, people and wrong messages can be put around us. We live in a very dangerous

unprecedented in some cases situation because it's unfortunate that sipping in our seafarers

have been attacked and they have no partner in this thing. It is a very difficult situation

for seafarers. And I presume for their families as well, you must be in touch with families

your organisations of some of those seafarers going into that area who must be extremely worried

at the moment, Alexander. They are. And we come to a critical point that the majority of the

vessels are out of the area if you see it on a global scale. But there's always concern of the

families of the seafarers. What if my management company, my charger, asked me to go there

and how this will be handled. And there's a lot of things. There is an economic factor of course

because they will get more money if that happens. Then we have contradictory messages

like the very uncalled for and I said it last week, the very uncalled from President Trump's

message to show some guts. These are not helping the industry and definitely are not helping

the unified message that even thing I'd have said is that the number one concern of all of us

should be human life and attention on the seafarers. So we feel for them, we feel the concerns

that they have for the ones that they are inside and what will happen. And of course,

to the ones in the probability that they will be asked to come there. We try to get information

we as an association always say to to be very cautious and take the best measures for the best

way to avoid the area. It is concerning for the families and there have been several family

members that have contacted us. Unfortunately, we've dealt with or dealing with one case where

a seafarer has lost his life. So the the daughter and son have been in contact with us and we're

trying to deal with that issue. I'm I'm really pleased that Alexander is also an agreement about

and I know that the industry is an agreement that this is an unacceptable situation.

This is and for for governments leaders of governments to say that the seafarers need to show

some guts. These are very brave human beings that transport 90% of everything and they deserve

better than saying, you know, you have to take a chance. It's easy to tell someone to take a chance

when it's not you risking your life or someone that you love. Jacqueline, a lot of the seafarers come

from places like the Philippines and India don't don't they? And is it harder for them in a way

because economically they have to work. They're providing for their families back home. Are you

getting a sense of hearing from seafarers who feel under a lot of pressure to maybe go on trips

that maybe they don't want to go on? We've moved on a bit within the industry so a lot of seafarers

they do enjoy the job and I understand why. It's it's a fantastic. It can be a fantastic career.

But yeah, of course, you know, they come from developing economic countries and they want to

provide a better better life for their families and make sure that their children get an education

but even seafarers that when I've done ship visits, they want to encourage their children to go

to sea for some of the seafarers. The biggest thing is is that it's a lot of months away from home.

The standard is nine months plus minus a month on board and then they're home for two or three

months and they go back out again. So they are there because they want to make good money,

of course, and to be able to provide for their family. But they also see opportunities because

a lot of seafarers they end up taking work within the industry itself on shore. Alexander,

can I ask you, it's difficult to get a picture as native of what's going on within the

strait. We know that some ships, Indian ships have been able to go through the strait of

homies. We know that other ships may have been being attacked. What picture are you getting from

your members of what it's like inside the strait of homies at the moment? A picture that we get

is uncertainty in fear. That's for sure. This uncertainty of what's going on because you

might think you're in a safe area and nothing has happened near you because as you can understand,

it is with we say it's the strait of homies, but it is a big area. So in some situation,

the crew, the vessel, the owners feel they are safe. But then we hear next to you,

unfortunately, not in your ship, an attack and you know, this fear automatically comes

to everybody how this will develop. The same goes to port levels. We know about

attacks and infrastructure in port. So it is a situation that at the least it is

uncomfortable, but I think fear is the one that is more described. And you know, that's the worst

thing, as I said before, about seafarers, that it is a great job to be in, but what they have to

go through with the situation right now, it's really unfair. I think Alexander, that majority of

people don't really understand the important work that they do. We've always called the

industry, we call them the unsung heroes. And we did that under COVID, which was why we got them

to find as key workers. But people don't understand that we're talking about on the news, it's a lot

about ships being stuck. Well, seafarers being stuck on ships in the area. That's the reality of it.

And then we're talking about, oh, inflation, but why should seafarers be risking their lives

so that we keep the inflation down? They didn't start this, they didn't start the hostilities,

and they shouldn't be the ones having to pay a price. And as you mentioned,

Lecline mentioned a very good point that about essential workers and people, unfortunately,

haven't done a very good job in the industry that we move 80 to 90% of the trade, the goods in the

world. And, you know, if sipping would start, all economies with no exception would collapse

in 90 days. So what is the backbone of sipping that support the economy? Seafarers. They are

the A to Z. And unfortunately, they're in a very bad situation. I like that simple said,

they had nothing to do with it. They just caught exactly what we hear in the movies in the

crossfire. And this is very unfortunate. Yeah, and that's one of the things because everyone's

trying to talk about how to get them out. Well, I think the only safe way to get them out is

if the hostility stop. That's just how it is. You know, I know there's conversations about naval

forces, convoys, but I don't think that at least if I've been a seafarer, I don't know if I want

to go in the convoi and then put a target on my back for siding with one one side or the other.

So the only way to that this is going to is going to be better for the seafarers if they stop

their hostilities. And the provisions, you know, when you start getting low on provisions,

then governments need to consider how can they get the provisions out? You're talking about fuel,

you're talking about water, you're talking about food. And that has to come out to those

ships that are stuck and they're most likely stuck on anchorage. So I'd like to see governments

starting to take some have some real conversations on how to ensure that those provisions are replenished.

It's a small hotel. You need everything. They need food, they need water, they need supplies.

But again, at the end, they need fuel because, you know, even if you had provision because you

weren't able to get them, the straight-off movement and the Gulf fairy over there, but we need to know,

it's the third largest bunker in part of the world. So people will expect him in or out,

they might have got fuel and now they're in a situation that they cannot get the fuel.

So you might have provisions, you might not have fuel. A lot could be vice versa. So

it's a situation that you handle that. It's very, very hard. And, you know, if there were the

vessels that they would do the long voyages and the ports weren't convenient, they're liking

enough and they're fooling both, then okay, but, you know, it will come to a point as long as this

situation continues that they need to get provisions, water, leave out the garbage. It's small

things that it's not one or the other. It's a lot of things that they go in the operation of the vessel.

And I think the biggest challenge was that no one knew this was coming. So if they knew

of things were going to happen, they could prepare better, but we didn't know it was coming. It just

all of a sudden, it starts and then they're stuck. That's why what is the IMO? I think they've

estimated 20,000 seafarers are stuck in the area. So that's a lot.

The IMO, of course, the International Maritime Organization, final thoughts from both of you

here. And picking up on that point, Jacqueline, that you made there about people not being

being ready for this. Unfortunately, we live in this uncertain time. So would there have been much

preparation? How do seafarers, are they prepared for these sorts of situations arising?

Will they have training to go? Because it must be incredibly stressful for them, mentally,

physically. There's been more focus on seafarers mental health from the industry in the last

probably four years, which is really good. But I don't think that you can really prepare for this.

Those some of the ships operating in areas where there's piracy. So they might have some

idea about that. But to this scale, I don't think that anyone is.

Like nobody can ever be prepared on that. And what you're going to do, even if you know,

with you, you're going to stop going how early you're going to stop visiting the area. Because

the global trade cannot stop. And the only way to restore the shipping operations is ending the

conflict. And to resume the operations, there has to be diplomacy and peace. The world's just

gone crazy. Jacqueline and Alexander discussing the fate of seafarers in the Gulf. Our thanks to them

and to all of our guests this week. I'm James Reynolds. You've been listening to The Documentary

from the BBC. Well, it's us.

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