NBA Hot Takes, OKC’s Red Flag, and Giannis vs. Father Time With Kirk Goldsberry and Joe House

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I put up a rewatchables on Monday night as part of CR month.

We did the nice guys.

We have LA confidential coming next Monday speaking of movies.

I was also on the big picture this week.

They did a 1988 movie draft.

Sean Amanda, CR myself.

We drafted all the best 1988 movies.

Great phenomenal year.

Die hard, big midnight run.

So it was kind of a blood bath.

But I had a good time.

I hadn't been on that one a while.

So you can check that out.

That's on Netflix as well.

This podcast if you forgot was on Netflix.

We're going to be live on Sunday on Netflix.

I think after Nick's thunder.

So it'll probably be seven o'clock PT range on Netflix.

And then if you're not tired of me by that point, April 8th Wednesday night.

San Francisco.

Yeah.

The rewatchables.

We've never been in San Francisco.

We've been talking about it for a while.

We're talking about could we go to Seattle?

Maybe San Francisco.

We're going to San Francisco.

I am bringing CR with me.

I am bringing Van Lathen and Malley Rubin with me.

And we are going to be at the ACT's Tony Remby theater on Wednesday.

April 8th tickets will go on sale Wednesday April 1st at 10 am Pacific.

I have to go to the ringer.com slash events for more information.

And I'll tell you what movie we're doing next week.

But you will definitely enjoy it.

And there's going to be there's going to be laughs.

There's going to be inappropriate stuff.

I can't wait.

So San Francisco.

I can't wait.

This has never happened.

But it's happening.

It's the least we could do after disappointing where your season.

So there you go.

Coming up on this podcast, Kurt Goldsberg and I are going to talk about the NBA and all

the stuff that went on last night and some subplots as we head toward the end of the season.

We brought in Joe House to join us for the tail end of that.

And then we had this big longevity project we wanted to talk about with with Yannis.

And this thing I asked Kurt to do research on in the thesis is basically, are there

historical signs that you should not trade for Yannis?

Pretty fast standing stuff.

We're not saying we're not advocating one way or the other.

It is just, hey, there's some stuff going on here that we should really seriously discuss.

So that is the podcast.

We're going to take a break.

We're going to bring in our friends from Pearl Jam and that Kurt Goldsberg.

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All right.

We are recording this.

It is a little past 10 o'clock a.m. Pacific time.

We're going to do a bunch of basketball.

It's a great sports week and Joe House is going to join us in a little bit with Kirk Goldsberg.

I want to talk about, okay, see Boston, all NBA, Detroit Atlanta, Houston, Minnesota,

a bunch of stuff we saw last night just because I thought big picture.

It got my brain turning on some stuff.

Okay, see Boston, there was some stuff with okay, see that I thought, you know, I don't

want to say concerned about a team that's potentially going to win 140 games in two years

when the title last year.

There's a too many guys thing with them that I'm going to be really interested to see how

it resolves.

I am a big believer in the too many guys theory in that in the playoffs, especially you

can get away winning a title with seven.

You really need eight.

Nine is fine, but it's probably around eight.

They have 11 and I thought last night they, one of the reasons they seemed a little disjointed

was because all their guys are back.

Right.

And you have like McCain, Joe Wallace, you have all these guys coming off the bench and

you just don't need 11 guys.

When you watch them, what are you looking at like when you're projected them for May

June?

It's just as they are Joe's out, McCain's out like where do we land ultimately?

What's their crunch time five is the other question for me?

Yeah.

The crunch time five and even their starting five is a fair question.

Last night, I thought there was a really big red flag with them in a specific way as we

look forward into the playoffs bill.

And that was J. Dubb, who is clearly their number two offensive weapon.

And they are very deep.

But I think one of the reasons they didn't win last night is because J. Dubb wasn't simply

at the level we expect him to be at.

I think in the playoffs last year, he played 35 minutes, was 21, six and five and had like

40 point outbursts and was the best player in the game in some playoff wins.

And it was two and a defense too.

Yeah.

And he was two and nine last night.

And that's just not going to get it done.

So I wouldn't say he's like the fully there are Pippin.

But in an NBA playoffs, it's very unforgiving in the West.

You need a clear number two.

And I think one of the things with too many guys thing is like, okay.

We have AJ Mitchell and McCain and that's a really nice story.

But they're filling in for the shots that I would expect J. Dubb to be taking and making

and putting pressure on the defense in a really different way than Shay does.

So for me, it's not just a too many guys thing.

It's too many guys trying to fill in for a clear void where Jaylen Williams used to be.

Right.

And they're looking at, can we ramp him up over the next month and get him back to where

he was last year?

The playoffs is a little more forgiving for them because they're basically going to

be playing probably the Clippers, right, could be, could be the Warriors, like who knows

like whatever.

They'll be able, Phoenix would probably be the friskiest they could play.

But I assume Phoenix is going to be the seventh seed with the Williams piece.

And this happened in the OKC Boston game too, which Tatum didn't play in in OKC.

And then they both played last night.

I was surprised how physically, I don't want to say overwhelming, but confident Boston

was with the size advantages they had.

And this is two straight games now with Jaylen really being able to attack Dort.

And nobody really goes at Dort like that, you know, like really like being able to bang

him and have him going backwards instead of forwards.

And then, you know, and then when you have Tatum too, who I thought the second quarter

was his best stretch of the year.

And in general, his game was really good.

And that was the best Tatum and Brown together game.

But the wings they had and the size they had, I thought was a real problem for OKC.

And I thought the same thing you did.

Well, if Jaylen Williams is last year's Jaylen Williams, now that's somebody to throw on

one of those guys, then you can do Dort on the other side.

But it was, it was a rare game where I thought, OKC seems small and I didn't think it

was good.

It just felt like they felt a little undersized against the Celtics because SGA was really

good.

I mean, he, you know, he, he was magnificent.

He was 10 to 12.

He was, he couldn't have been more efficient offensively.

He was getting the shots he wanted or getting to the free-throw line and they still lost

by double figures.

So.

Because it was a real behind him.

Right.

Yeah, I don't want to over.

But that's one of those games and you do all the, you always do the season ticket guy

thing.

It's like you circle that game.

Oh my God.

He comes to Boston once, they're the champs.

We're going to see where we're at, Tatum's back.

They're finally fully healthy.

That was a bigger than a normal regular season game.

I think that's there to say.

And Jaylen Brown.

Oh my God.

OK.

So there were three plays, I remember.

One where he took Dort on the right baseline and just hammered it down.

Yeah.

Then he had Caruso in the high post and he just spun away and then hammered it on.

I forget who's coming over to help on the rim protect there.

And then he got SGA with his own medicine where he, he had the footwork to push off the

up.

It got him in the air and then draws the contact and even SGA had to smile afterwards.

But they had no answers for Jaylen Brown.

Like this is the best defense in the league over the last two years, Bill.

And Jaylen took everything they threw at him and just was the best player I thought in

the game.

That would be my question to you.

Do you feel like Jaylen Brown was the best player in that game last night?

I, as Jaylen was really good.

I mean, I, I just thought Jaylen did what he's done over and over again this season is

he's matched the other best player in the game.

And this is why there's what I want to talk about him a little later, but this is why

I think there's a really strong first team all NBA case for him now.

He's just been really consistent in these games and I thought what was interesting about

last night.

OK.

He wanted the game.

They were, they had 12 in a row.

They approached it.

Like we're going to kick these guys ass.

They came out.

They were up 8, 9, 10 really for the first quarter of the game.

They kind of went gimmicky in the first quarter, which I thought was another kind of weird sign

for them.

They basically said, we're going to leave Hazar open.

They're not going to be expecting this.

It's like, why don't you just guard the Celtics straight up?

Like you have the best defense in the league or the second best.

I think for the Celtics, the, the big picture encouraging thing is that they've, they've

now played San Antonio and OKC and have just gone at them and really gone toe to toe

with them athletically and I, I think had a lot of confidence with them.

I wonder the type of teams that they've struggled with are teams that play with a ton of

pace, like Minnesota on Sunday without Edwards, just going up and down.

The Celtics want to play a little more deliberately and so does OKC.

So those types of teams are really good matchups.

I think the next will potentially fall into that, but, uh, but last night you could see

the ceiling of the Celtics team, I think, if Tayden can look like Tayden, he had that

great block, um, but just in general, like they're going to be able to go toe to toe with

these teams.

They're a guard short, I think is the thing, like I kind of wish they had somebody like

McCain.

They don't have a lot of leeway with going small or if white or a pitcher, it has a bad

game.

Um, you could see somebody like, uh, Anthony Simon's somebody like Anthony Simon's.

Well, the most interesting, I think single, most interesting playoff lineup wrinkle and

they did it twice yesterday for a little burst and in the second quarter, it really helped

them.

And they've experimented with it half of the games is Tatum at the five, but where I think

it's good for him because he doesn't have to move around it much.

He can kind of save his legs, but the rebounding is there and I think it's so nice to have

the rebounding back.

But when they go a little smaller with him was shooting and then it kind of fucks up the

other team's center too, because now he can, he can take the center outside or he can

go in, he can defend.

And I wonder if that's going to be the key wrinkle.

I don't know how much Garza we're going to get in the playoffs, maybe to put it in the

matchup.

Kate is going to have free throw, uh, you know, foul, foul, foul stuff.

And I wonder if that's like the ultimate destiny of this team against certain matchups.

Tatum, Brown, a shooter, White and Pritchard.

And like it could be Shireman one night, it could be Hauser, it could be Hugo, whatever.

But I do wonder if that's the ultimate destiny of them in huge, huge games.

They have Vuchabitch, hopefully the hand gets right and that's another huge piece of

their depth in a way they can can, can throw a different front court look at an opponent

with a stretch five.

I think that was the plan here and we haven't really seen that as much as I'd like to heading

into the playoffs.

Kate has been absolutely magnificent as it's all of that depth that we've talked about

so many times on your show.

But it's really cool to see Tatum, you know, my favorite Tatum play last night was he sort

of had, I think McCain isolated.

I think O.K.C. was playing zone and he had him isolate on the on the right corner and

it looked like he's going to break him down and go attack.

But instead he threw a huge skip pass, like the whole brown corner, yeah, that was great.

It was great.

To me, it epitomized that, hey, we still have these two guys and if you're right and I

know we'll talk about this later where Jalen Brown season lands on the awards list, two

of the top seven, eight, nine guys in the lead when they're both playing really well, that's

something.

And that was the first line of my notes after last night's game is like this, this game

really reestablished the Boston Celtics as the best team at least in the Eastern Conference.

And if you look at Fandall or anywhere you look, it's starting to be reflected in the

odds to come out of the Eastern Conference, Boston is clearly the favorite now to win

the East.

I know you don't want to jinx anything.

But and then if you look at the records, which you and I both love to do since January

1st, they have the best record in the East since then.

So all signs are pointing to sort of the dream outcome of this Tatum return that we've

been talking about for the whole year.

It's all clicked and I think they can win the East Sunday night was a little scary because

they look bad in that Minnesota game, but I from everything I heard, the travel stuff

was really like once in a decade, crazy, like they were just on a runway in Memphis for

seven hours.

Oh, that's got foster wasn't there, oh my God.

And I think I just think it that's why they looked like they didn't have legs in that

Sunday game.

And the Tatum, the offensive stuff with him and the rating that the team had the first

eight games and it just felt, it just felt clumsy.

And yesterday was the first game I really felt like this, this feels like we're back

now.

We're Jalen still the alpha in a lot of ways, but Tatum has taken carve out enough stretches.

For okay, see, like if they don't, I agree with you, if they don't get Jada back the way

he was last year, I think they're really vulnerable against San Antonio.

I think San Antonio could absolutely beat them watching.

Okay, see, last thing was the first, because I'm in the camp of you got to, you got to

get punched in the playoffs before you can actually win in the playoffs and paste your

own blood.

I just feel like the league has shown us that for the last 70 years, maybe not, maybe when

you have a seven foot seven freak and a bunch of pit bulls around him, maybe that's not

going to matter.

And if Jada is not Jada, I do think San Antonio should have a lot of confidence in that

series.

Yeah, they will.

I'm not sure they deserve it, but it's that typical young man's confidence that I think

was epitomized by Victor Webinyama at the press conference where he's talking about

why he's the MVP and he's just talking straight trash about the thunder and how he beat, how

he beat, they're going to be confident.

Yeah.

Stefan Castle is confidence in human form.

I think whether they deserve to be that confident is a different question.

Well, the record February and March would say they deserve to be that confident.

I mean, they've been the best team in the league for two months now.

Yeah, 22 and one in their last 23 Wembe games.

So they deserve to be confident.

I as much of a spurs homer as I am, the thunder deserve to be the Western conference favorites.

They deserve to be the title favorites at this phase to me.

I think what's changed Bill since December is that they look a lot more beatable than they

did when we were talking about this when they were 24 and one or whatever they were to start

the season.

I think they've fallen a little bit.

I think the biggest questions about J. Dub, the health, the heart and steam.

Some of the three point shooting too, like because the Celtics were doing that last night.

I thought they I thought Maz was great last night, but he did that little adjustment where

they basically played a pseudo zone, shaded SGA.

So he didn't have this kind of angles he had and they were really putting pressure on

the other shooters.

And that's why like if you're not playing Isaiah Joe and then you're just basically pulling

off the bench and being like, can you make some threes for us when he's ice cold and

hasn't played an hour and a half?

That's why that 11 person thing is so interesting.

It works for the regular season.

But when you're actually in a playoff series and you're down to one in a series and you're

on the road in game four, like I want to know who my seven guys are at that point, you

know?

It's a great point.

And I think, you know, even Dort made five of nine last night and that was huge for

the thunder in a world where Dort, who has come back to earth as a three point shooter.

It's one sort of nerdy or subplots of the thunder season in a world where he's 33% and

J. Dub is at 30%.

That teams a lot easier to guard that the help that it's a lot easier to help on SGA.

And we're talking about Karuso, old school Dort not making threes, some kind of limited

J. Dub.

The defensive game plan against the thunder is a lot more confident in a world where they

can't just punish you with shooters on the edge 12 for 37 last night.

And the rebounding, uh, Celtic's rabidout rebounding, too.

So we'll see.

Hold the J. Lin thought because I want to come back with that.

But I do feel like, okay, see, feels more vulnerable than they did.

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I have a couple of quick takes for you.

Yes, sir.

I'm going to whip at you.

That takes you can, you can, you can rank these on a scale of one to 10.

Okay.

Cade's injury was the best thing that could have happened in Detroit.

That is a 10 that is because I want to see him when he's back.

If he's back in a hundred percent, I think I'm saying, I'm saying that assuming he comes

back on.

Okay.

Then I think that's a great take and I think like Dennis Jenkins is cool, man.

I love this kids game.

I love this to see that they're staying in games.

If not winning games with him running the offense.

And I do think Bill, that's a huge part of the playoffs is having that secondary force

on the bench.

And I think it has given them an opportunity.

Duncan Robinson is making plays that wouldn't make.

They've all been sort of forced to promote their level of offense in the absence of Cade

cutting him in a way that I think we'll, if it all lands perfectly, make them a much

more complete offensive team in the playoffs.

So that's why I phrased it that way.

Okay.

We got to get that guy back, though, man.

We got to get.

Well, I just assume he's coming back.

That's why that's why I put it that way, but what it did for Jenkins.

This was a team that felt so Cade centric.

Two guys really benefited from him not being there during, I think, his gone up a level.

And I already had him as an on big guy.

Now it's like, can he make second team on my ballot?

Like I had him.

Do you see him shut down Luka for the last shot the other night, so Luka, it was, I had

somebody at the Lakers say that's the best somebody's guarded Luka on the edge all year

long.

It's a six, 11 monster.

It was crazy.

The case for him is very similar to the case for Jalen for first him.

To consistency and to kind of fuck you energy, he brings game to game that doesn't change.

No matter what night you're watching the pistons, that guy's just an absolute bat.

And it's been that case from game one this year.

He's intimidating.

He's, he's really competitive.

He'll do anything that, you know, whatever it'll take to win the game, he's going to do

it.

I think he's really overpowered some teams over the course of the year.

I thought he was really good last time.

Detroit Atlanta was, they had Detroit Atlanta, okay, see Boston, same time.

That was good as it gets.

But I think that Jenkins piece of this, he was cool as a bench guy.

They had some guys who was like, I had Jabonte Green.

He seems pretty good.

Jenkins seems pretty good.

He's like run the team and run crunch time plays and gotten good shots.

And now I feel like in the playoffs, that's a legitimate six man guy that's somebody

who could play with Cade in the last five minutes.

I didn't feel that way three weeks ago.

So that's why I phrased the Cade thing that way.

I kept thinking, man, Houston could use this guy.

He's that guy.

Like he could, he could start for NBA change.

And I wasn't saying that about it.

He had a big mid-rangeer last night.

They tried to claw back and that game just didn't have it at the end.

But yeah, I've been really impressed with him and tear earlier point without that injury

to Cade.

We don't see that.

He doesn't develop that.

The team doesn't get that confidence with him in the fold.

The two best guys that don't play as much as they could and would make me really wonder

like from a free agency standpoint, what they're worth.

Legler was on AJ Mitchell early.

Like could this guy just be the best guard on a real team?

And I actually agree.

I was even scared of him last night against the Celtics.

I was like, shit, I hope they don't run more plays for AJ Mitchell.

And then Jenkins now, I think has proven that maybe he could run a team.

Like he's doing this over and over again.

Atlanta last night has been playing fantastic.

And I thought he did a good job with them.

That leads to my next take.

Atlanta is real enough to make you believe, but not real enough that you won't regret

believing in them.

That's not a hot take.

I'm going to give it a three.

I believe in him.

Again, the way I look at the game.

This stretch is a analytically very impressive for a sustained amount of time now.

And then b, if you talk to people around that team bill, the vibes are immaculate.

There are people saying stuff like we haven't had a locker room like this in decades.

I wonder what changed.

I wonder what it was.

I wonder what happened.

We'll ask Joe House later what it could be, but I think the key thing is they've not

only had this major sort of vibe renovation, but they play so hard and so well for each other

on defense.

This is a great defense, potentially the best defense in the East, not named Detroit.

And then Jaylen Johnson's allowed to be more free in a keel out of Xander Walker.

And they love Dyson Daniels.

He's a weird guy.

Jocelyn Dale, they've put something together here that I wouldn't want to see in the

first round.

What are you?

Is Bill?

By the way, we mentioned 14 and one in their last 15 second in that rating, plus 14.4.

What we're going to ask them?

Yeah.

They've moved up to the, they've moved up to the five seed.

And this is what I'm going to ask you, five, four, this Hawks team versus that Cleveland

Cavaliers team at the four who you picking.

So you think that you're assuming they can jump?

Oh, yeah.

Right now, they are.

They're tied with.

They made it to the five.

They have the tiebreaker.

So if you want to get super nerdy, Toronto has the tiebreaker, but these are two trains

going different speeds right now.

And I like that Atlanta is going to land at the five if I had to guess.

So if I'm Cleveland, I can't believe this played out this way where the whole time you're

like, this is great.

We get to play Toronto.

We're going to kill them.

And now all of a sudden this Atlanta team comes shot out of a cannon.

Right.

Here's why I don't totally believe in Atlanta yet.

As good as they've been, and I agree there in the chemistry, and the team actually

makes sense.

Like when you watch some, the pieces fit together, the bench, I actually kind of like me moving

and getting rid of trade and moving Richa Shea out of real minutes, basically just changed

your season.

Plus McCallum, the problem.

So when you get into playoff series, what if you watch carefully Atlanta at the end of

these games, McCallum is their guy at the end of games, right?

A lot of CJ McCallum.

A lot of CJ.

Now we like CJ.

Yeah.

CJ's had a really good career.

I'm a fan.

But now I'm going to playoff series, and I'm in two point games with three, four minutes

left.

And now I have CJ McCallum versus Donovan Mitchell.

Do I like my chances?

Now I have, now I have him against Jalen Brunson.

I have him against Jalen and Jason, you know, like I just eat, this is the problem with

the playoffs.

If this is your guy and he has to match the best guy in the other team, you have CJ McCallum

and that spot.

And that's what makes me nervous about them.

Yeah.

Last night I think he had 11 or 12 straight points down the stretch for them.

Nobody else could do anything against Detroit.

And now he made the shots that won the game.

But yeah, I found myself wondering the same thing.

Is this really what we should expect from CJ and the playoffs?

Is that can you get out of round one if you're having hero ball with CJ McCallum?

Could you take him out, just put, be like, look, we're taking him out, putting a bigger

defender on him.

As much as I love Jalen, Johnson, and I don't know if he's second team or third team for

me, but he's going to be on an all-in-bate team.

Yeah.

There's still an end of the game stuff with him that I think we're two years away from,

right?

Completely fair, dude.

Yeah, he is majestic in the open court.

He is a beautiful basketball player, but we have yet to see, all right, dude, go get it done

in crunch time.

Yeah.

He's just a good defender.

We're in the early stages of him.

But Atlanta, this is real.

So home games there are going to be raucous.

They have great playoff home crowds for some reason.

And I think they really like this team.

So that's one.

Next take.

Juman Murray is a second team on Biega.

I haven't checked in on my exact second team in a minute.

I know he started Red Hot.

He has had the season we've all been waiting for him to have in the regular season.

I'll throw that back to you.

I don't know if that's a hot take.

Do you want to make the case one way or the other?

Yeah.

So you'd have to basically, you would have, I'm going down to my list.

So you would have to, if you assume SGA, Wembee, Luca, Yoke, and Jalen is the top five, right?

And Mitchell may be in the Jalen spot, depending on how we want to go.

I don't know if we're going to get caded back in time.

It's going to be five of the last 10 games, right?

Yeah.

I don't, it does sound like he's 100% close yet.

But even if he does come back, Jalen might have taken a spot regardless.

Like, when you think Jalen's going to be 70 plus games on a team that almost has the same

record, et cetera.

There's seven guys for that second team that I have.

Cade, Mitchell, Jalen Johnson, Jamal Murray.

I have Durin because I still want to vote for Seniors if I can.

I still would like to preserve some semblance of the history of the league and not just vote

for the top 15 guys.

And then Kauai and Ant, Kauai is a 57 games.

He can only miss two more, ants at 58.

And I think those are the seven in some order.

Kauai is going to make this really hard if he gets to 65 because it's going to be really

hard not to have him on a team, on the second team.

Oh, at least, yeah, he's, he, by some metrics, he's a first team on B.A.

Performing this year, but he's got to get to 65.

And I said this to Zach the other day, it's like, this is so stupid.

You know, the biggest thing we're watching for all NBA over the last week of the season

isn't like the game, Jaylin had last night.

Yeah.

It's who's going to fill up the, the games played column and basketball reference to 65.

Yeah.

Well, the players did allow it.

So my guess is Durin probably falls to third team unless a couple of these guys missed

a minimum.

But I, to me, I would feel great about putting him on a second team because I think he's

been the second, the third best center in the league behind Wembe, Neokitch.

I think he's the second most important reason that team's going to be the one seed and he's

been durable and consistent and really gives a shit night after night after night, which

I, I just don't think we value enough with this stuff.

Like Jaylin just showing up over and over again during just showing up over and over again

is a lot easier than guys that can just basically take some time off here and there and

just get to like 66 games.

I don't know.

Yeah.

The other one that I, the wild card for third team for me is Castle, but I want to see,

you know, the best thing about this is we have as much time as possible so that we don't

have to decide now.

Um, okay.

Next take Houston, the body language doctor is just horrified.

It's bad.

This is bad.

There was, and first of all, it's the most disconnected of all the playoff teams.

There's reminiscent vibes of Phoenix last year in that game we saw in person.

There's a play last night where they fuck up at the end of regulation and Shenguin has

to come down and he makes this absolutely insane block to save the game on Randall and

then hits his face on the floor and his lips bleeding.

And if you want, I, I, I couldn't believe it.

I rewound it.

I was like, oh man, the rocket's going to run over him, right?

Nope.

Reach Shepherd comes over, kind of like gives him a nice job, buddy.

Like it's the end of the first quarter or something.

Durant doesn't even acknowledge him really.

And nobody else in the rockets comes over and Shenguin just walks back.

This was like, you're a national TV.

This was like one of the best places Shenguin's career was insane.

I thought it was going to get hurt.

And that team is just so, so not on the same page that it was kind of like, yeah, a good

job way to go.

And then at the end of the game, when they screwed up again on the in-bounds and you could

just see Shenguin standing near the basket like this, which you're, you know, kept it

for an extra three seconds.

I don't like the vibes.

Something's really wrong with the rockets, specifically the offense.

So like since January 1st, I'm sort of stealing Zach's point with you guys on Sunday, you

know, they've ranked 22nd in the NBA in offense for half the season, Bill.

But just to put that in context, there's 10 teams that aren't trying to win, you know,

and there's a team like Memphis, who's nine and 30 in that time that has a more efficient

offense than the team with Kevin fucking to ran on it.

Like what is going on here?

How do the Memphis Grizzlies have a better offense than the Houston rockets for us?

Essentially this second half of the season.

And the vibes are off.

I know we're going to talk about it.

Off is like a compliment.

The vibes are horrible.

So they're 18th and they're last 25 offensive rating.

Yeah, it's not a small sample at this point and it's the clogged toilet offense personified,

which we had in Boston in 22.

But I just can't believe how lazy the offense is.

But you have to be in a good who should be impossible to guard for some bigs.

You have to rant who is impossible to guard for virtually anybody.

You have almond Thompson who's one of the most sort of attacking driving players.

You have Reed Shepherd.

There should be a top 15 offense in there.

Am I right?

I was so they don't have offensive rebound anymore with Adams guard.

Right.

They don't have a point guard because Shepherd just gets yanked in and out depending

on how Eme is feeling that day.

I think Eme, I think this has been one of the worst coaching jobs of the year.

I don't see any adjustments late.

The vibes are awful.

I don't think he really likes the team that much.

And if you want to go full conspiracy on it, they have not looked the same since the

all start break and all that KD burner stuff, whether that was true or not true, did not

look the same and they don't seem connected at all.

And yeah, it crossed my mind, too, yeah.

Every time I bring this up on a pod or when I had my column back in the day and it's

like this something looks off.

And then I remember doing this with the clippers when I go to the clipper games, it's like

these guys don't seem like they like each other and then they would get mad and defensive

and then years pass and it's like, yeah, we didn't really like each other.

Yeah, it was really, it was really not great vibes there.

It's like, yeah, we could see it's basketball.

It's the most naked of all the sports we have.

And this Houston vibes are off.

They just are.

And everyone wants to play them in the playoffs.

Everybody.

Nobody wants to play Minnesota.

Nobody wants to play Luca in the Lakers.

You want to play Houston.

And I do wonder like, are we going to have jockeying, you know, like if the Lakers in

Denver, if you had a chance to play Houston in this succeed, are we going to have Denver

just going all out trying to get to three seed being like, we got to try to play Houston

versus like other years where we've seen teams go backwards and try to like tank the

last two games.

Maybe the opposite.

Bump Denver, am I going full force for the three seed?

Yeah, I think the three seed is very powerful there plus you avoid OKC in round two.

And again, as much as I want to be a spurs homer, that's a, that's a good deal.

So getting to three and playing Houston in the six right now, LA is strongly, I would

say strongly in position to hold the three seed.

But man, I would also give us something like a LeBron KD playoffs series, which would

be electric in the first round.

But I would not feel good about Houston's offense, keeping up with the, the smoke show that

is the LA Lakers offense at the stage or Houston's chemistry.

Yeah, Houston.

So the easy games they have left, they have Memphis.

This is Houston.

They have Milwaukee.

They have Utah.

They have the Golden State Corpse's Memphis again.

So it's not like they're going to fall back to Phoenix.

Denver on the other hand, they have Utah and Golden State as their next two then Utah again,

San Antonio, Portland, Memphis, OKC who might not care at that point because they might

have locked up in San Antonio who might not care because of the two seed locked up.

So there's a chance they could basically run the slate.

Joe House is here.

He has no idea what we're talking about.

Hey, Joe.

House.

I heard.

Bob's on Houston and how this is not the good ship.

Lollipop.

Did you notice it last night on the television set?

Buddy, I've been noticing it for a minute now and you and I have been trying to play close

attention to this Houston team.

I'll put it in this kind of context in the first place.

You recall as the trade demine approached, their regular season, season win total was

sitting at like 53 and a half.

And I said.

Houston doesn't do anything at the trade deadline.

Then I am hammering that under.

I'm taking some portion of the mortgage

and putting it on the under for this Houston team.

And it's largely because of something that we smelled out

in the first half of the season.

This was before the calendar flipped into 2026.

They have fourth quarter scoring problems.

And it looked like in the early season,

we were wondering to ourselves in our text thread

and otherwise, are they experimenting?

Is there a reason that Reed Shepherd isn't on the floor

in the fourth quarter of these games, getting touches?

Is there a reason they're running offense through Sengoon

and then trying to get the rant to bail them out?

Well, all of those things are still staring us right

in the face and it's a failure.

At this point in the season, we have enough of a sample size.

This version of the Houston Rockets is not a serious team.

Not in this west to the way that it's configured

with the teams that are rounding into form.

KG, you know this, this Lakers team especially.

I mean, the west is too much.

And this Houston, it's a bummer that Stephen Adams got hurt.

They never came up with a replacement

for the three-point shooting absence of Dylan Brooks

and Jalen Green and FEV who got hurt at the beginning

before the season even started.

And here we are.

They are a first round exit candidate

in my humble opinion.

Well, on top of it, the team most likely

to all go to dinner together or least likely.

When was the last time you think the team all got together

and had stakes?

Send us pictures if that actually happened.

So how it's, it sounds like you would be wagering.

Fandall has this.

They have those, what is it where we can bet on

when the team gets bounced in the playoffs?

Oh, right, elimination stage or something like that?

Yeah, so it basically, it sounds like you would bet on,

so it would be team to advance to the Western semi-finals.

You would not be betting on Houston plus 160s,

but that's what it sounds like.

No, and that tells you something that it's,

you know, the implied probability of that

is not in favor of them advancing.

All right, we're gonna take a break

and we're gonna talk, I have a bunch of history stuff.

Kirk and I have worked on some of it.

House doesn't know anything we have coming.

We're just gonna throw it at him in one second.

There's some incredible lineups in the NBA right now,

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with a shooter, could have been Shireman,

it could have been Hauser, and then White and Pritchard.

And it's a little small ball, but not really,

because Tatum and Brown both rebound

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And when you have shooting everywhere,

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All right, Kirk, before we do our history lesson,

two more quick things.

Do should, should we be disappointed in Amen Thompson?

Where we are, for real us.

How's made of face?

Why do you say 100% Kirk?

I say because I look at the numbers.

I love on my Thompson.

I think he has still has all MBA potential.

But the reason specifically Bill Simmons is that he is modeling

like an inferior version of himself just compared to last year

in the exact phase of his career where he's supposed to be

blossoming into an all star and an all MBA talent.

He's actually going the other way,

according to all the advanced stuff.

If you want to bring it back to specific things,

he's arguably the worst shooter in the NBA right now.

He has the worst jump shooting efficiency

and the worst shot making impact in the entire NBA.

So he needs to become a shooter

until then defenses will be able to defend him very effectively.

Yeah.

And I thought that was going to happen this year

and in fact he's gotten worse.

I test this back in that up for me.

I thought they were really giving him a chance

to basically be like, maybe you could be our point guard.

They've given up on that and it seems like

he's lost offensive confidence house.

I think house is nodding.

So it seems like he agrees.

Do you understand?

Do you understand on it?

Yeah, give us a step.

Yeah, so 216 guys have taken at least 200 jumpers this year.

He ranks 216th by a Harris County mile, I would say.

He is, you know, I look at that guy for years

that's been of something I looked at.

I don't want him to be there.

I'm not happy about this.

But to Joe House's point is like this dude

should be an all NBA guy in the next few years.

But that's the specific thing he's got to fix.

So let me ask a question because this was the reputation

coming into the NBA, the open question

around the Thompson twins, around both of them.

Will they be able to knock down that open jumper

that the NBA reveals their athleticism?

Give some that space that room.

Is it fair to be, I mean, the number is the number.

216 out of 216 is pretty compelling.

But is it time?

Is it fair?

The circumstances under which he's being asked

to kind of run this offense.

He's not ready for it and it's apparent.

And he would be so well served, much better served

in a version of the offense that existed last season,

in a version of the offense that had Stephen Adams

in a version of the offense with AVVFVV.

God, I'll get that right at some point.

Running, running point is it, I mean,

he's taking the shots, but he's not ready.

That's the way that it feels to me.

Well, if you just switched on with his brother

and Detroit, is he in a better situation?

Yes.

Yeah, right.

It's a good way to look at it.

Next top, a quick MVP.

So it's Thursday, still morning Pacific time.

Shays down a plus to a minus 700 now.

Wendy's plus 650 and Lucas at 51.

If San Antonio passes O.K.C.

and gets the one seed,

is there now a Wendy case for you?

Because I'm not even prepared to consider it

unless they're the one seed.

If they're the one seed, I'm prepared to consider it.

So House, would you, would that change anything in your brain

about the MVP and where you're landing?

So I love that sort of phrasing of it.

That will we consider it right now?

We're not considering it, but we would consider it

if they achieved the one seed.

I think that's exactly the right way to set it up.

To back from O.K.C.

And it's desirable to be the one seed in this West, for sure.

You don't want to mess with the two three

is going to produce going into the second round.

But the answer to me is no still.

It's still SGA to me.

That's not fair as well.

That's why I guess what we have 82 games to decide.

That's 70 and not 50.

Right.

If Wendy gets the one seed, is that change it?

Yeah, I'll already take Wendy's case

just as the resident spurs guy.

Let me play the, let me make the case.

Do it.

This is the most impactful player in the NBA right now

is Victor Wambayama.

And he is right.

Defense is half the game.

And any team that puts Victor Wambayama

on the basketball court immediately

becomes the best paint protection team in the league.

It is fair to say like this is an 82 game award.

And I think Victor's best case is since January 1st

since the spurs have had the best record in the league.

So I think Bill, you have a strong point there.

But I don't think he's that far down on offense

on the ladder of most impactful offensive players.

And I think he is by far and away

the most impactful defensive player on this planet.

And that's where I arrive at the place

where he is the most valuable player in the NBA right now.

So they played Denver two more times.

Yeah.

And once on Saturday, April 4th

and then last game in the season, April 12th,

which could potentially mean something for Denver.

And if he kind of kicks Yoke into his ass

in that April 4th game,

I think there'll be some momentum.

But we will see.

Okay.

Jalen Brown.

House, I said, I think he has to be first team on the NBA

with 10 games left.

I think he's in the spot now.

He has a chance to lose it if he sucks the last nine games

or whatever.

Couple history Jalen thinks for you.

Right now, he's 28.6 points a game.

Seven rebounds a game, 5.2 assists a game.

So he's a 28, 7 and 5 guy edging toward 29, 7 and 5.

It's played 65 games.

He's over 2200 minutes.

Do you own the NBA history?

And you try to find the 28, 7, 5 club this century.

20 points, 7 rebounds, 5 assists this century.

It's Joker, Yannis, Luca,

Westburg, Cardin, KD and LeBron.

And that's the entire list.

If you go history since 1968, basically,

it's MJ Bird, Kareem and Habletechek have done it.

It's only happened 25 times since 1970.

28.5 points and above only 20 times the NBA history.

And then even if you go 27, 7 and 5

with guys playing 60 games or more

in their year, 10 season or later,

it's Habletech, LeBron, Yoke, Jalenis, three times.

I don't think he's getting enough credit for the season.

And I'm not saying that as like Boston, homerga,

I'm like, because I'm watching a game to game.

I'm like, this guy shows up every night

and what he's doing statistically.

And now, I guess the first question is house,

is there a little bit of a mid 90s steroids bump

with some of these numbers?

Are they all like 10 to 12% higher

than maybe if you're comparing them to 20 years ago,

30 years ago, just because of the pace,

some of the changes they've made,

is it just easier to be a 28.75 guy now?

Well, we know the answer to that

because we have regular games not going into overtime

where the teams are scoring 153 points to it.

Right.

We certainly, there is plenty of evidence,

I think, over the course of this season.

The interesting thing to me is you have to draw

a really, really, really hard distinction

between Spider Mitchell, Cade Cunningham and Jalen

because you have three guys,

I think we have three guys that we say

are on first team no matter what.

And that's Wembee, Joker, and SGA.

I think Lucas is on there no matter what now.

I think he's grabbed the first spot.

Yeah.

I just think, I don't see any version

where he's not on first team.

You agree, Kirk?

Yeah, I do.

And I say he has to be on them.

The core four foreigners, as I always call them.

Those guys are on everything now.

Yeah, this is where Kirk gets xenophobic.

He's like, what the fuck?

But I've been worried about L.A. 28 guys.

So if you go and Jalen versus Mitchell offensively, even,

Jalen, the stuff he is doing defensively

is just at a complete new level

that's not even near where Mitchell is.

He's guard, the last time he guarded SGA

for a lot of the second half.

He's doing that game after game.

He's choosing to guard the best guy in the other team.

And then his record's gonna be better, right?

And they've had some more of those stuff.

So I just feel like he has to have an edge.

Cades are tough for one, because they're gonna be the one seed.

And depending on when he can come back in time,

that's why this isn't a slam dunk yet.

But when you hear the names that Jalen's in

with this season, Kirk, it says, make you go,

whoa, I didn't realize it was that good.

I hadn't thought about it statistically

because for me, it's been almost like a real primitive thing.

Oh, Shireman and Hauser and Hugo.

And this team is wearing the standings for me.

It's just like, oh, it's because Jalen Brown

leveled up, oh, he is a mid-range game now.

He's a leader now.

So for me, that's where I was.

And this is the question I would ask you guys.

For me, it's almost like those core four foreigners

who all happen to be in the Western Conference, right?

Really, the question is who's the MVP of these

Western Conference?

And to me, it's clearly Cade or Jalen Brown.

Yeah, I agree with that.

And I'm gonna make you Mad Bill Simmons

because I think if Cade gets to 65, which is a big if,

I'm giving it the Cade just because of what they've done,

where they've come from, but also say,

I'm not mad at anybody, says it's Jalen Brown.

Come on, I think it's fair.

But you think like what the overunders were before the year.

Right.

The results were what 41 and a half

and Detroit was 47 and a half, so.

You're the Boston guy.

I'm mad at you, by the way.

How can we sit in October when we're trying to get an

advocate, we record money, not enough.

That's the point that the correct point is Joe Mazula

will not permit this.

It doesn't matter who's on the goddamn team.

Yeah, he has 12 players and he's rolling them out

and they're gonna play their ass off every goddamn night.

That point wasn't made forcefully enough.

I feel like I would say this Joe and I,

because Bill won't say it, but I think Brad deserves credit

for building the sort of bones of this team now.

It almost as spurs like, which is like,

oh, Tiago split her and Boris D.

out and Patty Mills are starting tonight.

Oh, they're gonna win anyway, like.

And look at what's happened.

I didn't think about that last year.

I think the players they got rid of, right?

In the off season, it didn't give an indication,

but what they had in the pipeline wasn't jumping off the page.

You weren't saying, oh, Kada's gonna,

we're gonna see him with these upper echelons,

rebounding numbers and his rim protection.

That wasn't the conversation we were having in October.

I blame Bill Simmons, that's all.

I like Kada.

I never thought he would be in the running

for most improved player,

even though the odds don't reflect it.

But if I had said to you before this season has,

here are the minutes per game for this Celtic season.

I had somebody gave it to me in a time machine.

Kada, 25 minutes.

How's her 24,

Garza 15,

Jordan Walsh 17 and Shireman 17.

Who goes gonna play 15?

We would have been like, wow, is that a 20 win team?

What's going on?

That's your fault.

I blame you.

The Shireman thing is, I'll tell you,

I'm all in on Shireman as a playoff guy.

And you saw it last night.

The bigger the game is,

he kind of rises to the occasion.

It's pretty crazy.

He's turning a real asset.

I would not,

if I'm Sam Houser,

I'd be a little worried about being embossed in next year

because Sam Houser makes 10,

Shireman makes, you know, two.

And that's one where you could get a little creative, I think.

And they approve a concept.

They were like, oh, Cornette, that's gonna hurt.

No, it isn't.

Didn't hurt at all.

Not one bit.

I still wish we had Cornette.

It helped over here though, Joe Houser.

Yeah, I understand.

I understand.

Right place, right time.

I will say this, Jay, I've never.

It's a pretty magic city.

I spent a whole decade with Jaylin.

Did not think he had this level up in him.

I thought we were where we were with it.

And I think it's really unusual in a year 10.

There was stuff going on last night.

My dad went to the game.

We were talking about it.

Like Jaylin had a real fuck you energy last night.

And I don't think he likes SGA.

And I think he was mad about the free throws the last time

and he was getting the line.

There were a couple times

when you could see him muttering under his breath.

And when he would get calls,

like muttering under his breath to SGA.

And I just think in general,

he's become so much more of an awful.

We went to those 2022 finals games

when Dreyman was really like bitching him out.

And he's completely different guy at this point.

Okay.

So the Jaylin case,

thanks for making me feel like not a homer.

The SGA, the stuff he's doing this year,

where assuming he's going to be first team mom big

and so that's four straight MVP voting

will be five, two, one and one.

Assuming he gets it.

He'll be the best guard for four straight years.

And he'll have one one title on maybe two.

And he'll be at 31 points a game for four years,

five and six, 53% shooting.

And if you go through the best guards of all time,

MJ had seven straight first teams from 87 to 93.

It was 33 points a game.

MVP was two, one, two, three, one, one, three, three titles.

Kobe from 06 to 10 was five straight first teams,

four, three, one, two, three MVP.

And then magic from 83 to 90 was nine straight first teams.

Magic Johnson just lost in history now.

And he was 27 and 12, he won three titles.

I think SGA, if they win the title this year,

obviously moves into this conversation.

Even if he doesn't win the title,

he might, might be at least knocking on the door

that grouphouse, you prepared to come to grips with this.

He's at least like, he knows where the address is now.

And he's bringing a pizza and some beers

and he's like, hey, guys, it's going on.

And I can't believe it.

Think about that.

MJ, Kobe and magic, but what SGA is doing,

he's in the vicinity now.

Is that fair?

It's, of course, it's fair.

Okay.

The combination of the success, the individual accolades,

but really taking this team and letting it realize

it's full potential, it's because of him.

He's the accelerant here.

And the presti acquisition, we will do that.

How that was a sliding doors moment in the NBA.

But it's set up this guy.

It let us get the full reveal with this guy.

And now that's a resume.

If he gets another chip either this year or next,

there's no reason they couldn't next year.

It's a five year run next year, even better.

Yeah, yeah, no reason.

I really respect it.

The first straight up 20 all time.

Yeah, he's five all time.

I have him in the in the high 20s now.

He's in like 20s, 27 range.

Start getting those chips and that's the only thing

that missing is missing for that resume.

I think that last step for the truly great ones,

like my dad went last night.

And he's just like, that guy's just great.

Like you just feel like every time,

especially in the fourth quarter and a half court,

getting a stop against him, you feel great about it, right?

That's like the final level.

You just assume he's gonna score.

You assume he can do what he wants.

The foul-baiting step, I know we've talked about

that ad nauseam on a hundred different platforms.

He's just really good at it.

Sometimes it's frustrating.

I don't like it personally, but he's good at either.

Get in the shot he wants or get into the line.

And Kirk, it's fair to say he's in that group now.

At least knocking on the door of the group for real.

If you're gonna win the scoring title in 2026,

you're gonna be foul-baiting.

That's the league we built.

Okay, so that's my first point.

My second point is sort of a humorous one.

My favorite punishment for the clippers

for this aspiration thing is they just have to watch SGA.

It's almost like a preemptive punishment for it.

Yeah, it's sort of.

It's like you had that, dude.

And dude, the thing you didn't even bring up

is the 20 point game streak.

Now, I usually don't care about streaks like that

as a stats nerd, but it really is just as a fan of the game.

He hasn't had an 18 point game, a 16 point game

in like two seasons.

Like it's 131 games now, Bill.

And it does look like Kobe.

And it does look like Jordan in the mid-range,

which I love as an old head.

Forget the stats, forget the analytics,

but he's so talented with his footwork.

I hate the foul-baiting.

I'll complain about it.

I'm sure this playoffs,

but his ability to score at all three levels

as a guard is the best in class by far of his generation

at the rim in the mid-range and beyond the arc.

So he's just the perfect picture

of what a great guard should look like in the mid-2020s.

So back-to-back regular season MVP's 13 guys have done it.

Magic, Nash, Jordan, Curry are the only guards who have done it.

Now you go back-to-back finals MVP's all time.

Jordan, Hakeem, Shaq, Kobe, LeBron, and Durant.

And that's it.

And we didn't have this.

We didn't have finals MVP for Russell's career.

He would've won like 10 straight, right?

But that's, he's on a couple lists there

that those are all the best players

we've ever had in the history of the week.

So then you combine the other stuff and there you go.

All right, we're taking a break

and then we're gonna throw this longevity thing you house.

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All right, Kurt Goldsbury.

I called you on Tuesday and I threw something big at you

about Yannis and Tedicupo.

Coming off with Zach and I talked about on Sunday

about how much would you give for Yannis this summer

and just the concept of what can you expect

for what he's going to cost, right?

And that was my case to Zach that he keeps getting hurt.

He's getting older.

He's moving closer to his mid 30s.

Why am I going to give up the farm?

Like if I'm Miami, why am I giving up,

basically every asset I have to try to get this guy

when I'm not sure he's going to play.

He's played 13 years, 895 games, 89 playoff games.

He's over 29,000 minutes plus 3,000 playoff minutes.

He's had one playoff when series,

series went in the last five years.

Some of the injuries he's had house.

2021, Hyper Extended Knee.

223, bad wristbrain.

23 lower back contusion where he played hurt the old playoffs

when he landed on his back, a couple groin strains.

2004, left calf strain, misplayoffs.

This year, two different calf strains

and a Hyper Extended Knee with a bone bruise.

Here's where I get scared

and this is what I called Kirk about

and he's going to have some stuff for us.

There's two different lists here, House.

That would terrify me if I'm trying to trade for Yannis.

List number one.

Guys year 14 of their career or later.

Okay?

14th year or later.

How many guys do you think have averaged a 2010

in 50 plus games in a season?

Year 14 or later, just 20 points 10 rebounds of game.

How many times does it happen?

Not a lot.

15 times.

How about one guy ever?

What?

Moses Malone.

He had a 2012 and 1989 and a 2011 and 1988.

And it's the only time it's ever happened

with the year 14 or older guy.

Ever.

I was thinking about our era and guys like Carl Malone,

they played a long time, but at some point,

his 2010 automatic just fell off and it was 25 and 9.

So that's the other list here, age 32 or later.

So he's going to be 32 next year.

How many guys have averaged a 24 and 10

who are 32 years old or older, 24 and 10?

If I'm trading for Yannis, I feel like it's a big decent number.

Like 15 guys, the same kind of answer.

So if I'm trading on my assets for Yannis,

pretty fair to expect 24 and 10 for a couple of years, right?

Does that seem like if I'm trading for first round,

I'll protect the picks for him and I'm expecting a 24 and 10 back.

You say yes, right?

Yeah.

That's a hard in the absence.

Like McHale Bridges was for first.

Do you expect there's 24, 10 to the nicks?

I expect the 24, 10 and McHale Bridges.

29 and 13 guy when he plays normally.

So 24 and 10 seems reasonable.

All right.

Age 32 or later, only four guys ever have done it.

Kareem twice, Hakim twice, Karl Malone once,

Elgin Bell or three times, have averaged 24 and 10

when there are 32 years older later.

It has not happened in 28 years.

So if I'm betting on Yannis to be close to the 29 and 13 guy

that he was and I'm giving up all my assets for him,

I'm banking on him bucking two pretty severe historical trends

combined with him suddenly being healthy again

when he has repeatedly not been healthy

for the last couple of years.

And if I'm in that war room thinking about making trades,

I just would say we can't.

There's too much evidence that this is dangerous to do.

So Kirk, I asked you to research this.

What'd you come up with?

Oh, I came up with so much.

But first of all, I think somebody's going to trade for him.

So I want to start with a question.

No question.

I would be very cautious because one of the sort of high end

things here, you did one more year in this deal.

As you said, he's turning 32 at the end of this calendar year.

So when you're more year in the deal means you're trading for him,

you're giving him a three or four year extension

for like 60 million a year.

So we're just putting that in there.

And the thesis here is that history teaches you should not get involved

with paying a 33, 34, 35 year old big man a lot of money.

It's just a really bad idea.

There's no shortage of examples.

The analogy I have for you bill as a New England guy myself,

this isn't Tom Brady at 32.

This is Gronk at 32, right?

And it's not just the miles on the car.

I sent you a fake car facts report on Yannis on to the compote.

This isn't the old lady who just drove the car to church.

And the most staggering stat I have speaks to the wear and tear

on Yannis' body.

This is a man who needs power in the course of the player tracking area.

He's been fouled 6,500 times.

Wow, he's the only player that has been fouled more than 6,000 times.

I think Hardin is close.

It's not just that he's played 14 years.

It's the kind of wear and tear.

And when you look for examples of dudes that buck the trends that you're talking about,

Bill, you're talking about guys who have a touch, a grace,

a jumper, hell, even LeBron James extended his career by doing what?

Well, it's the smartest guy of the last 20 years.

He just figured out all the little ways to keep going.

And he became like a pretty good three-point shooter.

And now you see him hanging out beyond the arc.

I don't see that for Yannis.

Yannis is Christian Acoya, like I said to you on the phone.

Like this is a dude who is just built to collide and overpower people.

So it's a little more like like Shaquille O'Neill, 90s, early 2000s of kind of a little

more of the brute force than somebody like Durant who could just operate in the fringes

and get to 27 a game when he's 37.

Yeah, so I don't know if we can do this on Netflix, but I plotted out a bunch of aging

groups for the best, the best big men.

And to use a term from the rewatchables, whether we're looking at Yannis, Garnet, O'Neill,

Duncan, or Mb.

These are guys I consider the best bigs of the modern game.

They all peak at 30.

They all peak at 30.

It's Apex Mountain at age 30.

And not only that, the second biggest feature of these curves is they go down fast.

Even my beloved Tim Duncan, the spurs did better than anybody extending this dude's career.

They needed Kauai and Manu and Tony to win once that he started, he got past that Apex.

So I just don't see a bright future for Yannis.

I love the player, but as a student of history and stats, there's just not a lot of reason

to believe this guy is going to play at an MVP level or an all MDA level going into his

deep thirties.

Yeah, and I think Dwight Howard's a good example of this, right?

And I remember talking about this one, it happened like that.

He had that incredible Orlando run, but in 2011, 12 range, his back was already starting

to bother him.

He had some signs like also like what, it's not like he was adding anything to his game

that was going to make him more special.

Yannis at least like, you know, they can do the one four offense with him and try to have

him go and barrel into the basket.

And maybe he could just be this incredible outlier house.

Like we've had outliers, the bronze and outlier, Tom Brady is an outlier.

I guess my question is what would be the outlier function with this other than him just

being somehow healthy and not having wear and tear like he's not going to add a three

pointer at this point.

He's never going to be a great free throsh shooter.

Could he reinvent himself as like more of a low post guy or is this just going to be

who he is where he just keeps getting kind of banged up or hurt and he's 58 to 60 games

every year.

And that's it.

What do you think?

The answer to that question depends on where he lands and what they require of him.

What the bucks have required of him over the last five years since they won the NBA championship.

Is the version that we watched that has as a feature all of the injuries that you just

listed because it's a style of play that he is uniquely suited to be successful at.

But they could not because of the way they were configured and some bad luck and maybe

some bad decision making building a team around him.

They couldn't afford him to play any other way.

He could only play that that one way and that was true for with with Dame on board.

You know, it's been true since they won the NBA championship.

I don't know if that's going to necessarily be required of him for the at the nicks with

Miami.

I don't know who the candidates are that can can pull together a package that's attractive

enough.

It makes no sense whatsoever for any team that it's a desperate to rebuild mode.

No.

It's a desperate which way desperate like Cleveland because Cleveland loses in the second

round this upcoming season.

Desperate like, you know, like help me understand desperate.

And then we can try and figure out what role he can play.

It's Cleveland losing and realize that they've basically taken this Mitchell mobile Jared

out and that whole nucleus as far as it can go.

Should we just trade mobility for Yannis right now with a couple other things and try

to cash in on two, three years of Yannis hoping he can be here.

It's the next basically packaging towns and in and over together with some other stuff

and hoping that they can get two, three years at Yannis.

But I think the really instructive one because that's been a lot of time trying to figure

this out and look it in history.

You think like KG when the Celtics traded from a 0708 and that thinking with KG was can

we get five years out of this guy at this level?

Some type of thing with Yannis, a lot of wear and terror, they'd played a lot of games,

a lot of minutes, a lot of miles and what happened.

They won an 08 with him.

He got hurt in 09, 2010 made the finals, but he wasn't the same KG like he had three rebounds

in game seven and 2010 finals, not the same guy.

Then 2012 they lose in the conference finals.

So you got five years out of them, but you really only got one awesome year out of them,

right?

Shacks another one with Miami.

They trade for Shack.

I think they could have won a 05.

How soon I still feel that way that if Wade does get hurt, maybe they actually win the

title.

They do win a 06 and then it goes out the cliff and he's done.

And I think with Yannis, I think you have to look at it if you're trading all this stuff

for him.

History says it's probably one or two years that you're going to get, that'll be really

good and that's it, which means to me, it has to be a team that's close.

So I look, if I'm the Warriors, I'm so happy I didn't get them.

I had to give up all my expirings and all my first round picks and like now I'm betting

on injury stuff with him and Curry, who by the way has continually gotten hurt and probably

should be still getting hurt because he's in his late thirties like, where was that getting

me?

I think it's really only like a Nick's or a Cleveland, I don't think San Antonio would

go near him.

I don't think okay, see would go near him.

It's not their style.

I thought Houston was a great candidate for a long time and I would still have Houston

in the mix.

Am I doing okay, see your San Antonio with him?

With VanVleet back, Bill actually heard there's a mystery team.

I called around as part of this exercise to see who were potentially desperate places

for Yannis to land and somebody who knows stuff told me that Orlando has actually been

very active in seeking out Yannis onto the Kumpos services.

Now desperation sort of sets in in the NBA when after the first round of the playoffs.

So there's 16 teams that think they're in it two weeks later, there's eight teams that

are out.

That's where I think the Houston's, who else would we say, the Orlando's, Nick's, Cleveland

right?

That's, that's the group I'm looking at because somebody will talk us themselves into

it and I could definitely see it being somebody like Orlando who has a player that could be appealing

to send back.

But unfortunately they gave all their picks away to Memphis to get Desmond Bay.

Long story short is I do think you guys are on to something.

There will be a market.

There will be a team that talks themselves into it whether they should or not.

But the window is very short.

Remember, he's going to sign a new deal in 2027 next fall and that's going to be, start

2034 years old and go deep into his thirties.

And I think Atlanta is in there too, however it goes with them.

I still feel like they have the assets to make a move for him.

You could talk yourself into screw it.

Let's try to, let's try to really go out of here in the Eastern Conference.

They're not going to be desperate, but they might see it as an opportunity.

And then the one I looked at and the reason I wanted to do this, not just because I always

should do a honest trade thing because I think what happens in the playoffs is going

to determine a lot of the desperation.

So as we look at how the last two weeks of the playoffs are shaking out, our reguarsies

are shaking out, who's going to potentially have a terrible playoffs then the desperation

comes in.

So Charlotte, I was thinking like, man, they have a couple really good draft picks.

They really like their team.

And could you just turn Miles Bridges and a bunch of picks in the honest and try to make

a real run at this and hope that you can get two, three, four years out of them?

I'll just tell you if I was in that inner circle war room, I would probably be the voice

saying it makes me nervous.

I don't think we should do it.

The worst case example of this ever was the, was the Lakers with Kobe when the Chris

Paul trade fell through and they went after Dwight Howard and Steve Nash, right?

Two guys with bad backs, Nash was already like headed toward a decline.

And then Dwight Howard, they only had for a year and we're keeping his finger, their fingers

crossed that he was still Dwight Howard.

And then that, you know, that really set them back and that ended up, they, they tank

for three years after that.

So here's what I want to ask you though, because I hit you this with them, with them

speed last year.

I'm going to give you the same question with Yannis.

If we're picturing the career arc of Shaq in 2026, which version of Shaq is Yannis Anticumbo

in March of 2026?

So I think it's O4 Shaq.

End of the Lakers era right before the heat.

So if that's true, then you've got to give assets because that's a tight corner right

there.

Here's the difference.

Crucial difference.

Yannis has been an awesome shape and gives a shit over and over again.

He has cared about whatever the best version of himself physically can possibly be.

Right.

Shaq and O4 and O3 and really O2 played himself in the shape there in the air and O4 was

not in shape at all.

And when he went to Miami in O5, it was, I'm coming to take my corners back kind of a

Kaiser Sozei route.

I even did the, what did I call it, the revenge scale or something like that?

I did a whole page two thing about Shaq and he did.

For those two years, he wasn't in shape and he did kick ass and he was great.

Yannis is who he is.

Like you're training for the guy that he's been the last couple years.

The calf strain's really make me nervous.

That's right.

Because it's recurring.

It's not like there's been one.

It feels like this is just a thing that keeps happening to him now and I don't know why

that would get better.

House, I was saying that the Yannis Shaq, the difference is Shaq got into awesome shape.

Yannis is already in shape.

So that would be the one, the one difference.

The only thing I'll say on the calf strain point, which is concerning because we now

have in this, especially this year, the hyper focus on Achilles protection and the amount

of running the guys are doing and how this version of the NBA, the way it's played

now at a speed and then the amount of running it greatly exceeds anything in previous

history.

I wonder if that is a new way to conduct some load management, especially with Yannis.

Like you only kind of need one in his history and then you can safely point to it any time

that you need him to not play a handful of games.

He said, well, it's a, there's a calf, calf tension kind of situation.

Right.

It's in his, look, look, it's in his, it's in his history is medical history.

So Kirk, the other one that was rumored a bunch was Minnesota, who seemed like they

were trying to move heaven and earth to figure out how to get him, which would have involved

trading half the roster to different places to get enough assets to cut.

I never really understood it.

Yeah.

It seemed like it screwed them up a little bit afterwards because basically every guy

except Dan was in a trade rumor and I would assume this summer, maybe it's a little

easier.

They still don't have the picks in the same way.

So my guess is it'll be the Nick's or Cleveland, unless there's like an Orlando, it's so bad

and they're just like, whoa, Palo for Yannis, let's just call it in.

And especially like, who knows, there's always been rumors with, there's always been rumors

like how long will Palo stay in Orlando anyway?

Who knows?

Yeah, you hear all this stuff about Minnesota.

I've been hearing it for years with Tim Connelly and Yannis, I don't know if it's true,

but then there's the rumors that Yannis had them on his preferred list that may or may

not even exist.

And then the other team I heard Bill is Portland in part because that would be ideal for Milwaukee

to get back a lot of their own picks from previous deals.

So I think there will be a huge marketplace for this guy.

So I think there's really two questions with Yannis in 2020.

Well, but the question is, should there be a big amount of places you think based on

the history of all of this stuff?

And I don't know the answer.

In fact, a desperation, right?

And this is a marketplace where desperate GMs and desperate ownership groups tend to

do irrational things.

And the market forces are controlled by desperate people in a lot of time.

So I do think somebody like Miami, New York, Charlotte would be great, but will they

talk themselves into that?

I think they will.

And that's where I'm going to land here.

I think that somebody will probably overpay for the amount of risk they'll have to

absorb to add Yannis on to the combo to their roster.

So the case for it is you say, look, we've had historical outliers over and over again.

Kevin Durand is still scoring 26 a game and shooting 50, 40, 90 splits.

LeBron is at age 41 still a valuable piece on a team that has a chance to make the finals

potentially.

Tom Brady played those 45 like you would have to start looking at the all time outliers

and asking if, why couldn't Yannis be like that?

He's been an awesome shape of his whole career.

He had some bad luck with some stupid things.

Some of those injuries, like, sorry, he fell on his back and that's why the 2003 playoffs

went sideways.

That's that Yannis's fault.

The wear and tear stuff is all fixable stuff.

It's not like he blew out his patella tendon.

Right.

So if you're in one of those rooms and you start going glass half full, that's where you

start talking to yourself into it.

And it's like, Carl Anthony Downs just sucked.

He's the reason we're not in the playoffs anymore and you know, you start turning out your

own guys and talking to yourself into the glass half full case for somebody else.

And that's how it go.

I would just, I thought it was notable that San Antonio, no case, see, we're like, we're

good.

Yeah.

Two teams that had more than enough to trade for him.

And honestly, he used to seem like we're good, not the same for the year for us.

So the fact that three of the smartest teams in the league weren't intrigued at all.

I had heard different things about whether Boston kicked the tires on it.

I don't know what to believe with that.

I think everybody at least nudged it a little.

So there you go.

Yeah.

Year 14 or later house Moses Malone, your guy on the wizards.

Twenty and ten.

Famous Washington bullet.

Yeah.

Moses Malone.

House.

I got, I got a mail back question.

From somebody about the wizards that I was going to throw at you that I have to find.

It was about the best five players of wizard's history.

Would they lose in a playoff series to every other team's best five players in the history

of their franchise?

It's not even close, of course.

Yes.

Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

The best five players of every other franchise in NBA history.

Does that include the Vancouver Grizzlies?

You would beat the Grizzlies.

Or maybe you wouldn't.

That's like Marguerite.

I don't know.

Yeah.

That ran off my calmly.

Yeah.

Grizzly grind.

So just got the, the, the, the list there was Chris Mooney.

And he asked if the top five all time was Wes Uncelled, Elvin Hayes, Bradley Beale,

Goberteranus and John Wall.

The best starting five have had.

I would throw, um, I would have Dandridge in there instead of Bradley Beale.

Sure.

That's fine.

Beale, because of the length of his career is, we can't, but we can't have him anyway

for an hypothetical fake time mission tournament.

I don't want his chemistry.

But Bobby Dandridge was a playoff MVP in 1978.

Yeah.

We didn't have plenty of MVP.

Yeah.

So I'm looking at, uh, Big West, Elvin Hayes, Dandridge.

Goberteranus and John Wall.

I mean, you have to look at Charlotte to every of the teams, Charlotte, Noreland.

So Charlotte, I, can I have LJ and Alonzo mourning in that?

I can.

You can.

Yeah.

And then I would probably have Lamella O'Conn and Brandon Miller.

It's my other three.

Oh, no, I can't get Baron Davis with that.

No, you get to my match and ball.

Oh, I can't blame Royce from the mid 90s.

Oh, that is a good player.

Amazing.

I don't know, man, we're going to do some work on this.

Maybe later, you, you, you, please note, I didn't hesitate that you have to go

to expansion teams.

You have to go to expansion teams, teams have only been around the last, because

remember this Washington franchise hasn't won 50 games since when the last time it's

been 50 years since the last time they won 50 games.

Because even you would say like, oh, the Sacramento would have to be worse than

the, but it's like, no, Sacramento, I get Oscar Robinson, I get, I get C.

Web, I get some of the matter.

Yeah, I might be able to put boogie cousins on that team is my center.

Um, I could have Darren Fox is my point guard.

Yeah, Wes on sale at Elvin Hayes, Dandridge, Irina's at wall.

That's just a weird team.

I'm going to have to, I make as a project that might have to go through and

really try to figure out.

What would the Hawks team be?

Oh, the Hawks will get Bob Pettit.

That's the thing.

It's like all these other teams have a guy who would be like somewhere in the top

30, um, Kurt Golds, but we cover everything.

Yeah, dude, how are you looking at March band?

Is she got any picks?

House, what are you?

So we're taping this Thursday.

We can't really do the Thursday games, but the Friday games, um, which

include our guy Acuff.

We were on that so early.

How's the night?

We were lying to that ever talking about it, um, but we have on Friday.

We have St. John's Duke, we have Albaam Michigan.

Oh, Acuff's playing tonight.

Yeah, there's something.

Yeah, all right.

I got a good, I got a good note on Acuff.

The first of all, I think he'd be the perfect talks player.

Thanks to Joe Doomars.

Um, so if they somehow get lucky and get that, the McCollum by, yeah, be perfect,

right?

But after the University of Texas played Arkansas, uh, this, this season, Sean Miller

or head coach of Texas just went to the post game pressure.

I was like, that's one of the best guards I've ever seen play the sport of basketball.

Uh, he is, he was just like awestruck by how great he is.

So yeah, what a player he is.

There's been some terrible comparisons with him.

Like Steven A was talking about how he's like, Iverson.

Like he's not like, Iverson at all.

Not even a little bit.

Remind me of Iverson in one way.

Yeah, I didn't, I don't like anybody who says Derek Rose.

That's ridiculous.

Uh, no, it's, he, it's a little kind of a little Chris Paul and a little

day into me.

Yeah, those three named to me.

Yeah, I love when they dang them on the defense.

Like like Dame guarded anybody for 13 years.

And like I regarded anybody, like what are we talking about?

Oh, his defense is good.

Okay, cool.

What, what point guards Steve Nash was so good on defense?

Like what do we, you're drafting him for his offense?

Um,

House tonight.

I don't know.

Where do you stand on buries?

Love him.

I have him at minus 122 in the Fandall sportsbook for at least two, three

pointers.

His three point shooting over the last 13 games.

He only has one game in the last 13 where he's taken less than three over

that period.

He's shooting 26 for 53 from the field.

This is not a setup.

You did, you didn't tell me ahead of time.

They were going to talk about this guy, but I bet on him.

So I have these numbers available in this place.

Right here.

Let's go love it.

He's going to be a good pro.

This is what I worry about with our guy, a cuff tonight.

Because first is a real big physical.

And then I heard that the secret story of the 2020s that hasn't been told is L.A.

basketball, the freaking Renaissance, just producing over and over again,

these awesome players.

And there's even some guys who were kind of a let down, but they've over and over again

have been shot at the NBAs from L.A.

And I don't know what have your basketball.

I should be able to keep him at home.

Maybe if McCronon wants such a prick, they would say and play in the UCLA.

Kirk, are you excited for your 21 and 14 Texas team in a couple of hours?

Dude, they've overachieved in this tournament.

I want to give my hats off to those guys.

I'm more excited for two other things in Austin.

Our women's team is number one seed.

They should make the final four.

And my editor at the wringer.com Isaac, he's getting married this weekend in Austin,

Texas.

So I'd like to give him a shout out to the ringer zone.

Isaac.

Yeah.

But anyway, the Longhorns got to play the boiler maker's great coach, Matt Painner,

great three group of seniors in Purdue as much as I'd love to pick the Longhorns.

I think the boiler makers are probably safe.

But tonight, how's what's your relationship with Patino?

Obviously, I hate him for ruining the Celtics for four years.

But you've, you've kind of enjoyed him over the years.

I feel like well, anytime there's Italian food and sex under a table, you've got me

for life.

That's those are two things that you.

Wait, was it on my table or on it?

It doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter.

23 seconds.

Those are top 10 things on my list, my lifelist.

So yes, Patino guy right here, but come on.

What he, when he got back to St. John's and restoring that program and giving it that

home again, giving it that New York swagger and that team taking his identity, that their

defensive intensity.

I love it.

I love it so much.

I'm here for all of it.

These, these games in DC are going to be outrageous.

St. John's Duke and Yukon, Michigan State.

How are we so lucky?

I, I mean, I wish I could afford a ticket.

Kirk, I wish you, I wish you knew us in college when these teams we would attach ourselves

to like the, the Kenny Anderson Georgia Tech team.

Oh, remember how much we love them?

Oh, that was a great team.

That's your team.

That's your team.

We love Kenny Anderson so much.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Disappointments ever from college to pros is the Kenny Anderson not being like one of

the 50 best players of all time.

He had everything.

Yeah, era man.

He was so special.

There was just, I still don't feel like there's anyone.

I don't know if I've ever seen a point guard quite like him.

It was like he had like the magic passing gene.

He was lefty.

He was so much fun to play with like he was the algorithm through me sometime in the last

two weeks that LSU Georgia Tech game where with Shaq in my, my, my, my, my, oh my God.

Raouf against Georgia Tech with Kenny Anderson cooking and Georgia Tech pulled it out right

at the end with Kenny Anderson and was like, man, this was good mother, effing basketball.

This was outstanding college basketball.

We watched when you guys were on Holy Cross every time we had two 90 across Worcester.

I think about you boys up on that hill watching basketball together.

We had some great college basketball memories back then.

Like we, St. Patrick's Day at Holy Cross, which was like the biggest day of the year.

Was the Princeton almost upside against Georgetown, which was just like, it's just everyone

packed in like a giant place watching it.

And then we also, I mean, the worst memory was the gathers.

That whole thing was so awful, but that was the team we liked.

We really liked watching, but then we had the Bo Kimball, the tournament run.

That was amazing.

And then House was graduated by the time the Duke and Tucky game happened.

But we had UNLV Duke when we were there.

It was kind of the last real heyday.

And then Mark and so I was incredible during that era.

House and I might have been the first two people on the East Coast to really profess our

love to the Fab Five.

I don't know.

I can't verify this with anyone else.

We were so in on those guys, right?

We were in on that when they all decided to play together.

Yeah.

They're like, what's going on here?

They're going to have all the best guys are going to miss you.

But that was that that whole era we loved.

And we let we talked about this with Jalen, but we love Jalen in college.

We like, never gave up the stock with him.

Oh, one of my favorite nights ever with the sports guy was with 2014 finals, you and Jalen

were here in Austin and that was when we reunited the Fab Five Jack, Ray Jackson.

I was there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That was a pinch me moment because I also love the Fab Five and never believed in my life.

I would ever be spending time with Ray Jackson and Jalen in a bar.

That was awesome.

It's still unbelievable to me that they never actually won the title with what the embarrassment

or riches they had.

But that's how good college basketball was back then.

All right.

We lost House's camera at the tail end.

Kurt Goldsbury's camera is still working.

So Kurt Goldsbury.

That was awesome.

What a sports weekend, sweet 16 baseball starting NBA, like a lot of playoff, jacking, a lot

of stuff going on.

We get the NFL draft coming up.

So great times all around.

Thanks to Kurt.

Thanks to Gahau and Eduardo as always.

Thanks to House and his camera that stopped working.

And I'm going to be back on Sunday night on this podcast live on Netflix with Zach Love.

So we'll see you then.

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of a deal.

If you're not sure what you're going to do, you're going to have a lot of money.

Thank you.

So let's play.

Let's go.

So let's go.

So let's get back on this podcast live on Netflix.

And we're going to be back on this podcast live on Netflix.

So let's go.

All right.

Thanks.

So let's go.

Thanks for watching.

Bye.

Thank you.

Bye.

Bye.