NBA Teams We Already Know Will Define The Offseason

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What is up, fel sickos?

I am Dan Favalli coming at you with the one,

the only the certified,

fantastic,

the list,

Mr. Grant Hughes.

Hardware knocks has gathered you all here today.

To talk about,

the off season.

There's enough not so interesting basketball happening

for us to start taking some macro stances

or macro looks at what's to come.

So we're gonna do MBA teams that we already know

are gonna define the off season.

Not that we're,

oh, if this happens,

depending on what goes on in the playoffs,

we're predicting right now

that they're gonna do some seismic stuff over the summer

or we expect them to.

Before we get started, though, Grant,

how the heck are you doing?

Doing very well.

I'm glad to pivot from a very like,

let's talk about the basketball part of the basketball,

which we just recorded,

not sure when you'll be hearing this,

to some off season stuff.

Because for a lot of the league,

the season doesn't matter anymore.

That's unfortunate.

Listen to our tanking discussion released last week,

or earlier this week,

if you want our take on that.

But yeah,

gotta start talking off season, man.

Like that's what a lot of these teams are thinking about

and have been for a while.

So we might as well do it too.

So how did you,

before we get started for real,

how did you approach,

what are you looking for when the playoffs haven't happened yet?

And you want to know,

oh, this team is really gonna shape

what goes down in the off season.

It's a combo of just, you know,

some of the where there's smoke,

there's fire stuff, right?

Where if there's been some,

I'm just gonna telegraph it.

But if there's been some unrequited trade chatter

with a certain team,

that's probably gonna come up in the off season again.

That's a good chance you're gonna get included here.

Capspace picks big time for agent decisions

that might affect other teams

and might affect the market.

All that kind of stuff,

just teams that have flexibility.

There's a special category I have.

I don't know if we'll get to these teams necessarily,

but that could undergo some fairly significant changes.

Maybe if they disappoint in the playoffs

or have already disappointed

before getting to the playoffs, for example.

So a lot of factors went in there,

anything to add that went into your calculus

for these teams.

Just vibes vibes the vibe is just off.

And you think that if we didn't even get to the playoffs,

we know that something this is just weird.

The vibes matter to me.

I mean, you're not wrong.

Well, we'll give you the first pick as per usual.

Where do you where do you want to take us?

I we have to just start with the books.

No, as Yannis is gonna be extension eligible.

Not sure if you're aware of that

because Yannis wants to stay in Milwaukee forever

or never right now dot, dot, dot.

I've already made that joke, but like, come on,

that's where we are.

We're in we're in the ellipses territory

of the books and Yannis's relationship.

So it's going to be just like the trade deadline.

I imagine where, although I now wish I looked up

as extension date or when he talked over, but okay.

So this is a real problem because it's going to linger.

However, if the books and Yannis don't get to a point

this offseason where he's either gonna definitely sign it

or not, and then we can act subsequent to that.

Man, that's going to be rough

if we just have to all summer talk about this.

But that's the next kind of fork in the road,

potential moment, which is to say,

if he doesn't say I want to sign it, I'm gonna sign it,

then you have, then there's just another element

in the we got to trade this guy equation.

So I don't really, it's not like the books suddenly,

well, if they lose Yannis, they're gonna go out

and get X, Y and Z and for agent, it's just like,

that's just the domino, that's the first domino.

I think are the biggest one anyway,

as far as what else happens this summer.

I agree they need to be on this list.

What's gonna be fascinating is because you mentioned

the extension date, you have to have the answer well before

then and I believe it will come organically

because they'll know where they end up in the draft.

They'll have three first round picks to trade.

You have to kind of see what you can do.

Go to him and say, is this enough?

And if he doesn't give the absolute cosine,

yeah, I'll sign the extension if X, Y and Z happens,

you can't do X, Y or Z at that point.

You've exhausted enough trying to keep him, I respect it.

I wouldn't be, you could reasonably make the case

because of just how important he is

to the fabric of the franchise.

You just roll with him until he leaves in free agency

in 2020.

You shouldn't do that.

But he is that, he is that type of player

to where if he still is being ambiguous about it,

you go until the wheels fall off.

That said, it doesn't mean we trade everything

just because we know we have him for another.

You need some type of control

where it'd be the commitment of him signing the extension.

I don't think he's gonna sign the extension.

I don't know what the bucks path,

but I don't know what level of player they would need

to acquire with their draft equity

and whatever salaries they can send out.

For me to look at them and say,

they have a real chance in an Eastern conference

that next year is gonna have a full season's worth

of Jason Tatum plus Tyree's Halibur,

none of each of Zubats in Indiana.

Yeah.

Why, I haven't really thought about

that the will he won't be of the extension.

I was just thinking about like, well, that's the crossroads.

Why do you think he won't sign it

or won't commit to signing it?

I mean, he even was, maybe it was mis-translated

from the interview.

I think it might have come from Euro Hoops or something,

but that he said he was gonna have the right to decide

in 2027, which makes me think that

was he not planning on signing the extension

or was I just feels, look at what's happened

when he signed extensions in the past.

They needed to make this big move.

And so, do you make the big move without the promise

of Yannis saying he'll sign me?

Like, because if it's even, well, we'll see.

Well, like, we'll see.

If that's just what the answer he gives you,

the responsible decision would be to trade him.

I understand why you wouldn't,

but you certainly can't turn around

and then trade two first round picks anyway

without knowing whether Yannis is gonna sign me extension.

Man, I mean, that's kind of how the bucks have operated.

They did get the extension commitment

the most recent time, but yeah, you can't do that, right?

If it were any other situation, I would say,

there's no chance that they trade these picks

and go get some wind now help

without an assurance from Yannis.

But it's kind of like, they've operated in a way

that's almost saying, we'll go do all this

and then we'll present it to you and please, sir, favor us.

You know, there's holding out all these things

they've done for him.

That's really scary.

I do think if he does not commit to signing the extension

way before the deadline, if I, I mean,

if I'm the bucks, I've traded them already.

But at that point, you can at least go to your fans

and be like, fellas, like he was gonna leave.

We can't just let you want them to just walk.

At least that I think that gives the bucks

like just another, just another like fingernail on the scale

that excuses them from being the ones to do.

Who initiates this?

In what we believe is an inevitable.

Oh, or I don't know what's the,

who's the, is there a player that you could say

that bucks traded for him?

That's enough to get Yannis to stay.

How high up the food chain are we going?

Who's out there that could even,

so like if it's Trey Murphy, not enough,

if it's, I mean, like someone, who?

Limello?

Limello?

He's not going anywhere, bro.

Guys, guys, guys getting his statue built right now.

Are you kidding me?

I knew it all along, by the way.

No, he, I mean, what a sad Brunson.

Markinin would have been interesting,

but now he's not moving.

Brunson?

Yeah, I think if you get Brunson,

that's probably, that's certainly good enough.

What if you get Austin Reeves,

some type of sign and trade?

I don't know why the Lakers help you do that,

but that's borderline, I think.

Cause I'm not for you.

No, goize, goize, goize, interesting.

Yeah, you can't trust the health,

or that he's going to be allowed to play basketball,

potentially.

Paolo Bannero.

Yannis is out.

He's, that's enough to get him.

Okay, that's what you do.

If you want to just rip the bandaid off,

go get Paolo, and then Yannis will believe.

I mean, so I think if he doesn't say,

I'm signing it, now please go make moves.

Then the bucks are the ones that come to him and say,

like, you can't expect us to go forward

without a commitment, right?

We're going to trade you.

Are you cool with that?

And he's going to say, you'll be the ones to say

that the franchise decided to trade me, right?

It's not, it's not that I finally won

and gotten what I wanted without asking for it,

then, then you're good.

Do you think that he,

because he's not going to give them,

and it would have to be the perfect trade I'm assuming.

I don't envision him giving them a definitive answer

before his extension date,

because that allowed, that gives him plausible deniability.

Well, at least it won't be public, I guess.

I, I think he's, I think he has to commit.

If I'm the bucks, I say, it's, it's, uh, it's July 1st.

I know there's three months until you have to decide,

tell us today right now.

And because we can't go make, like you said,

they can't go do X, Y, and Z until they know,

do we have Yannis or not or do we have Yannis

or whatever else we're going to get for him?

Because then you just, like,

then you keep all the picks, you trade them,

you get a bunch more, you get, like, the two,

the two paths are so divergent based on his answer

that you one need the answer way before October 1st.

And you can't, there's no like in between to road to go,

either you're trading all this stuff

or you're trading none of it and you're trading him.

So if he doesn't give you an answer, then to me,

that's a no, I'm not signing it.

And we're starting trade, we're restarting trade

to get negotiations immediately.

To wrap, they, because they belong on this list,

whether they trade Yannis or keep him,

because if they keep him it's because they've done something

that's not going to make sense.

I'm going to ask you for a prediction,

is Yannis on the Bucks to start next season?

No, I think, I think we finally have reached

the last possible off ramp.

And I think the Bucks are going to take it.

What do you think?

I agree with you.

I think, I just think that's where,

if I thought Milwaukee has currently constructed

was closer to being in an Eastern conference threat

than it currently is.

Playoff, play in team.

If you thought they were a play in team, maybe,

which they aren't, come on.

My pick, I'm going to go with the small market

Los Angeles Lakers.

And this writes itself for a couple of reasons.

Austin Reeves has the player option.

And there have been questions about

is he going to get the 25% max.

He could, with that being said,

there's also the LeBron James

of all, he's going to be a free agent.

Seems like he's good as gone.

That would be my prediction.

I don't think LeBron's on the Lakers next year.

But the Lakers can also, while carrying Austin Reeves'

cap hold carve out close to $50 million in cap space,

they are now one of only three teams

that project to have cap space.

I don't, like cap space can be used

for more than free agency,

because this free agency class isn't any great shakes,

unless you think that they're going to go poach

Jalenderin from Detroit.

The Lakers just having cap space plus, by the way,

the three first round picks to trade.

So whoever they take this year, plus 2031 and 2033,

they have Luca, they're going to do something.

I don't know what it's going to be.

I'm assuming they hope it's multiple, some things.

But this feels like an inflection point type

of offseason for them, because what,

if you just kind of run this back paper over the margins,

and then what, now you're selling fans on,

well, in 2027 is going to be the year.

When it's not like Luca's younger,

but he's not getting any younger.

So I think LeBron James leaves,

that's its own sort of separate.

I'd be shocked if he's back on a discount with the Lakers.

I think they'll keep Austin Reeves,

and I think the goal will be,

they're trading multiple first round picks

while also hoping that they sign, at least one in.

But like this is a team that I think adds,

I'll put it this way, two players

that should be a part of their closing lineup next year.

Oh, yeah.

I think that was my next pick, by the way.

So it just has to be them,

because like you said, Luca's not young,

but you kind of, I mean,

this is a pretty successful, like, transition year,

or gap year, if that's what you want to call it,

as those go, you only get one.

If you have a player like Luca,

if you're not trying to win the championship,

and you have Luca, what are you doing?

Like, what if the call in the open

doesn't sign his extension?

Well, then we're going to get two.

We're in real interesting.

So yeah, I would echo everything you said.

I think in addition to all that,

like everything has been gearing towards this.

Like the fact that LeBron's going to leave

is a result of him not getting an extension,

which the Lakers could have done,

and that would have eaten up the caps,

like they've been signaling by not making a trade

involving one of their picks at the deadline

to preserve the ability to trade a bunch more

over the off season.

All their moves, over the last,

really post Luca have suggested that

we're just going to kind of figure it out

until we get to the 26 off season,

and then we'll make this team,

because they've kind of just messed around

and not done anything that's going to prevent them

from doing big things since then.

So yeah, they're a great pick.

They need to get some wings and a center in there.

I did want to ask you though,

is cap hold will still be smaller

so they can get to around close to $50 million in cap room.

Of course, open up more if they find,

let's say a taker for Jared Vanderbilt's deal,

or if we assume that a Aitens picking up his player option,

Austin Reeves' maxes from the Lakers

could be four years, 185.9 million,

or five years, 240.7.

Yeah.

Do you think, and if he was to go signed

with a separate team, it's four and 178.5.

That's the one.

I don't know that there are enough teams

with other cap space.

I think he's going to, unless he gives them a disc,

I think he won't get the five year max,

would be my prediction.

But if he's signing a five year deal,

it's he gave them like a haircut off the 240.

If it's only a four year contract,

I think it's going to be 95%

if not 100% of the max.

I think it's the Pascal Siacum situation with Indiana,

where it was basically this exact thing.

They could do five and more than anybody else.

I thought from the jump that you just need to be able,

you just offer him a dollar more

than any other team can offer on a four year deal

and say, you can't beat this and you're going to be in LA

and you move up the pecking order at least one spot

with LeBron gone.

Come on, man.

This is, you're taking this.

I think it's going to be four for 179

or whatever the max is from another team.

That's what it'll be.

And I'm pretty comfortable with that number.

I think if you get the,

I don't know, it's probably like a rational,

but the five year max, max, max number, I don't love it.

And just knowing that if I'm the Lakers,

just knowing that I didn't pay him anything more

than another team could have.

So therefore, it was like a market rate.

I'm okay.

I'm comfortable.

The final question I have for them is,

would you take this would eat up most of your cap space?

Basically, basically all of it,

because it's the same,

maybe the same max deal that Austin Reeves can sign.

Are you taking, or close if Austin Reeves was to leave?

Are you taking your cap space

and offering a four year max offer sheet

to Jalen Durman if you're the Los Angeles Lakers?

Man, daring the pistons to see whether

they're going to pay him a match.

40 plus million a year.

I don't think Jalen Durman's worth that.

I think if I'm the,

now I'm scared because I'm the Lakers

and I decided that Deandre Aiden at this rate

was like, that's good enough for, you know,

so you got to find something in the middle there.

You're not, I don't think you can pay Durman 40 a year.

Am I crazy?

So you think if you went,

so instead of let's say the four for 180 ish,

if you went four for 160,

do you think that's still 40 a year?

Like what is the not,

you have to go to a number that makes the pistons

hesitant to match.

I don't know what that number is.

I, I don't think I'm doing that

because I think the Lakers won much other stuff.

I think then you're not going to get your defensive wing

that can make threes.

Then it's just Durans your guy, Reeves is your guy,

Luke is your guy and you're playing minimums

and the mid-level for the rest of the roster.

I don't think that's good enough.

So I don't, from a team building perspective,

I just don't think you can commit all that to, to Duran.

And then especially if the pistons might just match it anyway,

because who knows?

Well, at that point that it's hey,

we messed with the pistons books.

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Who's the next team?

Okay, those are the big two.

I think we should talk about the thunder

just because they're about 90 million over the cap

in their projections.

They're going to be into the second apron unless

they, Isaiah Hardenstein makes 28 and a half

on a team option, Ludor 18.2 on a team option.

This just is going to be the off season

where some trimming probably needs to happen.

And that might be especially interesting

because they might be coming off a second straight title.

But if you've got Shay making 41 million,

Chet and Jada both making 41 and a half million next year,

Alex Cruz was making 19.6.

This is when it's going to have to happen, I think.

And maybe what happens is those team options

get to climb longer-term deals get signed for lower annual value.

You move the Joe's and Wiggins of the world or something else.

But the thunder just feel like a team

that will look different coming in.

And that's relevant because if they're losing players

from their rotation, that means there are very good players

that are going to be either traded or moved elsewhere

and a potential two-time champion looks very different.

Trickle down wise, it's not like they've got 60 million

in cap space and they're going to control the market

or anything like that.

It's a different kind of control of the offseason,

but they sort of have to be a team that is at least focused on, don't you think?

Yeah, I'm just curious.

So they're, they project to be about $28 million

into the second apron.

And that's before factoring in, what are they down to?

They have one first round pick in this draft.

So it's, but it's before accounting for any of that.

They have, like you mentioned, the team options on Heart and Stein,

the door and Ken which Williams as well.

You're not making up though, but you can,

but you can't just, man, shaving $30 million

or whatever in salary, that's going to cost you one of Heart

and Stein or door and then a Joe and an Ordanne Wiggins.

Is that like, do you see them going there?

Like, yeah, it feels, I'm wondering if this could be a season.

I agree with the pick.

They're fasting.

I just wonder if we're a season.

Do they trim their bill a little bit by saying,

oh, we're going to decline these options on door

at the Heart and Stein, but they're coming back cheaper.

And then I don't know, does that leave them within?

If you get those two to take a haircut

over the span of a longer term deal

or you, uh, Alex Caruso dump, or Isaiah Joe dump away

then from ducking to something different.

I mean, that, that presupposes that there's not going to be,

I mean, maybe you put, you work this out in advance.

So it's not like Heart and Stein will be surprised

when his team option is declined and he goes on the market.

But like, I think that there, there will be,

those guys agents are talking to other teams or how,

like, so I would imagine there's an understanding of like,

what's out there on the open market.

Should the, I think the only thing I feel confident in

is that, um, of the three, certainly at least two of those

are going to be declined those team options.

And so three agency will become a thing

for a couple of those guys.

Maybe all of them.

Are they willing to take a haircut to come back?

If, and how big a one, and if you're another team,

are you like, yeah, we'll pay Heart and Stein 25 million a year.

That makes sense.

I know, or, or door, like door could be the missing piece for us

whoever trying to think of the team.

I know that the hornets are just like, we're, we need them.

He's a speaker on James with the Lakers.

Decent fit got the cap space.

I mean, Heart and Stein don't hate that on the Lakers

as you started.

They just signed, they signed the whole door to Heart and Stein.

Yeah, they do it.

They worked out pretty well over there.

Why not us?

It's just, I think, I don't know what I think's going to happen,

but it does feel like there's room here for some of these guys

to get away or the thunder to have to trim elsewhere

in order to bring them back at deals that'll keep them

from signing elsewhere.

It's not, it's not just like Heart and Stein's ecstatic

to get $28.5 million taken away.

And yes, sir, I will come back for 10 million a year.

No problem.

Like that's, that's not happening.

So there's, there's going to be some tensions,

not the right word, but things could happen here.

I'm not rolling it out.

Most likely player that you think wouldn't be back then.

If it's me, it's a door.

Just because you've got Case and Wallace,

you've got Alex Caruso, and you've got Jalen Williams,

your perimeter defense is good.

Like it just, he's the most expendable to me.

Alex Caruso is a little bit older than Lou Dort.

And yeah, I'm going to go, I think it's Heart and Stein.

I think they're just might be like, because if you decline,

I think someone would be willing to give him the balloon payment

again for at least two years.

And so if you decline his team option, I don't know

that he's just going to come back for 16 or 17 million.

If, and if that's the way it goes, then suddenly,

the thunder need another center,

unless you think sorbers ready to just step in,

because they don't like, they say L injury, yeah,

they don't like shed at the five full time.

And I, I don't think that's the best use for him anyway.

So there's another, the now they're on the market

for a guy who maybe they need to start.

That would be wild.

A two time champions is like, whoa, shit.

We need a starter now.

We have no way to pay one.

That'd be interesting.

My turn.

Let's go with the Brooklyn Nets.

One of the other three teams that are projected

to have cap space this coming summer.

Here's something I clocked.

Everyone clocked this.

They don't own their own first round pick last year.

But we just went through a trade deadline

where not only did they keep Michael Porter, Jr.

but they didn't add any salary for next season.

And so you start to look at the space they could carve out

where they're below the Lakers.

I think the Lakers are gonna have league best cap space now,

but the Nets can pretty easily get to 45 plus million

themselves.

Grant, are they, they're either gonna use that

to facilitate other teams as big swings

or they're gonna be looking to be players themselves.

They've already been cited as,

oh, could they be a dark horse?

Yannis destination.

If they just decide to go, though, well, we're flexible

and we'll give you draft equity route.

I do wonder if part of the reason they held

on the Michael Porter, Jr.

was we're gonna try and be good pretty quickly.

Again, we're gonna have another high draft pick.

We have other draft picks if we need to make trades

plus all this financial flexibility.

I just kind of looked at the fact that they didn't take on.

It wasn't that they didn't make a bigger swing

or trade Michael Porter, Jr. specifically.

It's that they didn't impact their cap space

really in any way, shape or form.

And they could get incredibly, like, if,

let's say your, if a team is willing to take back

Terence Mann's contract, they can just take back

$60 million in money.

That is not nothing when you're looking at like,

what trade proposals could be out there.

So I think the Nets are going to be active

and not necessarily in the way that everyone would expect

a team in their position to be.

No, they were, we've gone in order now.

They were my next pick.

It just, they might have the number one overall pick.

That in itself puts them in some pretty interesting

conversations when you add in the cap space,

you add in the like, they could,

I think everything's pointing to,

we're gonna try to do some stuff

and like actually be fairly successful next year.

You could still trade Michael Porter, Jr.

for some stuff if you wanted to.

If you wanted to maybe go the other way.

So I think most signs point to them trying to get good.

And they have the resources to do that.

I don't know what that looks like.

The honest of it all is a possibility.

But yeah, they're, they're going to do something

and whether that's the cap space play,

putting that number one pick on the table,

probably that would be crazy.

But that would be like, what is the player?

A, a, a Yannis is too old for me to do that.

I don't know, I'm not, as the Nets,

there might be a, a team in the Hawks, let's say,

I still probably wouldn't do it,

but that, that's a team's timeline

where you could envision it.

The Nets if they have the number one pick

can not just, can not trade for Yannis, right?

I guess if that's the only thing you're sending

in conversation, we're having a conversation right now.

It's a conversation.

By the way, they could also do what they did

with Camp Johnson to get Michael Porter, Jr. to wear it.

They trade him to Portland for Jeremy Grant

and then Bucks picks or something along those lines.

They absolutely could do something like that.

Yeah, that's a good team.

So the next one is going to rub up against this a little bit.

I guess this is my last pick.

I have the Hawks.

They have that Pelican's pick.

They have this Jonathan Caminga, $24 million free ride

if they want to use it.

They, I, to me, are a sneaky Yannis suitor potentially.

I do think they have, if I'm looking at it right,

they've got like 24-ish million in cap space.

So I could see them, that Pelican's pick is interesting

because it's probably not going to be number one, might be,

but it's a high enough where you think it probably won't be.

It probably won't be, but it's high enough to wear.

That's a real asset.

They could put that on the table with Caminga

and another matching salary.

And now you're really like, all right, well, that's a Yannis.

That's a starting point for Yannis package.

If you, you might even be able to keep

Jalen Johnson out of it if you can put all that together.

So they're kind of like Nets light in terms of the cap space,

the value of that pick, and the Caminga versus the MPJ salary slot

as a trade piece.

But I do think they're obviously far better than Brooklyn.

So it wouldn't take the size of move you would need

to make Brooklyn relevant, to make Atlanta more relevant.

So I just, they just feel like a team too, to me,

that is kind of nosing its way into the Houston tier

of non-coastal glamour markets that keeps getting brought up

in superstar trade possibilities,

to where it's like, I think it's time

to start thinking of Atlanta as like a second tier.

They're gonna attract somebody big,

whether it's like he's on my,

they're on my list of trade demand, like acceptable teams,

or they just have the stuff to go get somebody.

And a player is a high end guy is good with that,

because Atlanta's like a pretty good place to be

if you can't be in LA or New York.

They're just tough, and I think I'm scarred

because I was so high on them coming into this season,

and they just under delivered yet again,

that I'm sort of like, what are you doing here

if you're really gonna, if you trade a high draft pick,

for who?

Yannis and Jalen Johnson is that,

and then you're playing with a big,

as well as that, that the plan there?

I don't, I don't love that.

Well, then maybe flip it.

Do you think they just come into next season?

Well, Kaminga's coming back.

We like what we have with Johnson and Akangu and Nah.

I'll give you one further.

What if you just trade Jalen Johnson

and build around Jonathan and Kaminga?

If you only play the Wizards,

you will have a dominant team, and he'll win MVP.

But yeah, I don't know.

You don't like my Hawks pick.

I can feel it.

It's something I don't like it.

They were not, that's a fascinating,

because I think it troubles me that they're a team

that would consider trading wherever that Pelican's pick

is gonna land.

Because what is the, what's the player you look at?

It's, well, that was it, because Yannis,

even, it could happen one of two ways.

Well, okay, we got Yannis and kept Jalen Johnson.

What are we kind of, like is Jalen Johnson

a three now, or are we going without a big,

or did we just trade Jalen Johnson to age ourselves up?

You don't feel great about that.

And so if it's not Yannis,

who is the player that you want to identify at?

Oh, we're happy that the Hawks made this big splash.

Probably Jomerant.

Don't you think?

Is that exactly that?

I don't think I feel that way about any team.

That's the question I don't think any team

should be answering.

Do you think we should have just picked the Grizzlies

because the Jomerant sweepstakes

will be such a hotly contested affair?

I think they are bound to drum up more interest

in like a Zach Eadie or Jalen Wilson

if they become available at this point.

Tough times.

My final pick before we'll each have a dark horse.

I thought about making this thing.

I'm surprised you didn't pick them.

The Warriors.

I thought about making them my dark horse.

They have, unless you just believe

that they're content to spin their wheels

for what's left of the Steph Curry era,

they're gonna have five first round picks to trade

that monster Jimmy Butler expiring contract

and he's not gonna play until probably before 2027, right?

Coming off that ACL injury.

Yeah, he's got to be a full year of things.

They also could have a Dremont Green on an expiring

set as he picking up that $28 million

player option or whatever it is.

And then if he doesn't or if the Warriors decide

because it's not just that I'm assuming the Warriors

will be aggressive in searching for trades

which they will have.

I apparently are discord called me out

for saying the Warriors Yannis offer was trash.

I don't know that it moved like not being able to send out

a blue chip youngster to Milwaukee.

I think should be a deal breaker from Milwaukee.

If you're putting any just combination of five first round

picks on the table like when you get the equivalent of it,

that's a real offer for some one.

Do the Warriors feel beholden to the Steph Curry

wanted to go do that?

And if they're not,

does Dremont want to be like, is he okay going out?

Like this can even get value for him and his Steph.

Okay, going out like this.

I assume that he will be.

I don't expect other Warriors are trading

Steph Curry report or news break.

But I just do they just want to be in mediocrity

then until Steph ages out of the NBA,

that feels off to me as well.

And so forced to choose,

I think they're going to commit to a path.

And I'm assuming that path is going to be,

even if it's not the Yannis level type offer,

we're going to look back and say,

oh, the Warriors traded two plus first round picks and did X.

I don't necessarily know what X is,

but it's going to be something.

No, that's a good pick.

I think, I mean, you've got,

you've got the assets to go.

I mean, I guess what I'm kind of like hesitating is,

they keep, they keep being a team

that's involved in high level trade talks,

at least.

Do you remember that commercial?

I think it was for car insurance,

where the guy has the fishing pole

and there's like a dollar on it

and he's like holding it out for the people.

Oh, I'm going to get you.

You're going to get you.

That's what the Warriors are like in trade though.

So you would assume then you're right

that this off season, it's like,

well, they, we will know that they,

if they've got a very competitive offer for Yannis

and it's just, okay, we knew that this time

or this last time around, what's that get you?

Yeah, you're right.

I think that just because they're at a point where it's,

are we, what are we doing with all these picks

if we're not, you know, shopping them basically?

So I think that's right.

I'm on board with that.

I don't know.

I'm just so, the Warriors have just,

since Stefan Butler have been out,

it's just like they're not even on my radar right now.

I'm just not paying attention to them.

They slipped my mind.

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All right, Dark Horse time.

Yeah, who's your Dark Horse pick?

So I got a couple.

I hope you'll just take the other one.

I think the magic based on the way this season is gone,

they're gonna have decisions to make.

And I think it's very, very likely that Jamal Mosley is gone.

The question is how, if it goes beyond that at all,

because if it's just that,

which everybody's kind of like, that was almost like a,

before this season even started,

it was like, if this doesn't go great,

like that's the obvious next move.

So that won't be a seismic thing,

but we've talked before about like,

they're getting very expensive.

Some of these extensions are kicking in.

You've got, and we mentioned like, Anthony Black,

that's a keeper, you're gonna have to start thinking

about what to do with him.

But like, maybe there's a Jalen Suggs trade.

Maybe there's a Franz trade.

Maybe you joked about a Palo trade,

but like, I don't know, it just seems like

there's a potential for post-Mosley firing

to be something else here.

Yeah, I don't know if that's why they're a dark horse,

because it's like, it might just be they fire the coach

and then go into next season saying, we fixed it.

Like, we started, you know, we did the easy thing,

but there could be more.

And they're not, they don't fall into the,

if you were talking about, let's say, the calves

or the nicks or maybe the rockets,

it's very much what we need to see.

This is predicated on what happens in the playoffs.

The magic might not get that opportunity.

This is where push is gonna be predicated on, okay,

so how does the regular season end

or they even going to be in the playoffs?

So that's what makes them a more fascinating.

So I'm with you on that one.

It's, because they don't have picks to trade,

really, after this year, they could trade some,

but I wouldn't advise it.

You could trade as much as being for four or five, though.

Could you?

Yeah, the market says.

Could you?

That's always worth.

You saw it.

I bet you we get a bunch of Palo for a honest

hypothetical trade proposals.

That's gonna be the trendy top.

Once his max extension kicks in,

that's gonna be sort of the trendy topic

that people are gonna discuss.

I could see that.

I also wonder, not even just the coach stuff,

but the lack of health,

do the magic sit there and say,

we just don't have the sample size to say,

this isn't gonna work.

At the same time,

Andy Black is gonna be extension eligible.

So he's not, he doesn't get expensive next year,

but after the season he's had,

why would you accept anything less

than what Jalen Suggs got, which was five and 150?

And so that's gonna have to be in the back of your mind, too.

Is it, well, we're not gonna move, Franz or Palo,

that's too nuclear, but we're gonna move Jalen Suggs.

Yeah, who arguably has been more integral

to their success when he's been available

than either of those two bigger names,

but just the unavailability is,

you just can't pay a guy that much

that you don't know if he's gonna play.

My dark horse here,

I thought I had the bulls,

just because they're the only other team

that's projected to have cap space,

but that just doesn't seem fun.

So I'm gonna go with the Charlotte Hornets

where they are other team that you wanna be the picker.

No.

I thought you might,

I also had Cleveland,

just because of the Mitchell extension stuff,

and who knows what James Harden's gonna do.

They were in the playoff category for me to wear it.

It feels like we're getting ahead of our season

if we pick them now.

Oh, no, yeah, they're totally dependent on what happens

in those season. Go ahead.

I'm gonna go with the Hornets because they're so fucking good

as we're, and it's not as we're,

forget that as we record this,

for more than a quarter of the season,

they have been basically a top,

let's say top seven offense and defense.

They've been stretches with their top five in both,

but like the defense is,

I don't know how great it is.

I don't know that I trusted to win a playoff series right now.

I'd like to see them,

you might even want them to get better

than a Musa Diabate at the five.

I still certainly think the Miles Bridges minutes

are just even T-Johnson long,

like the four spot is low hanging fruit for them,

or even just another perimeter guy with size.

If you say, well, we bred a Miller,

it could be the four,

and we have Konkhanipal, whatever.

They're itching.

If they finish the season as they are now,

especially if they get into the playoffs,

they have those Miami and Dallas picks in 27.

They have an extra first round pick in 2009 as well.

They have all their own first round picks.

They have some, I think if you're making a move,

you don't want to touch the Konkhanipal Miller

or Lamello Ball trio,

but you have enough matching salary elsewhere,

none of which is toxic financially.

It's no deal that you're looking at and say,

oh, no, no, no.

It's that there's no Jeremy Grant contractor,

Carl Anthony Towns type deal on the books.

What if they just decide that we're gonna go for Yannis?

What if they're the team that's,

if Yannis said he wants to go to a East Coast,

because it's apparently a closer flight to Greece,

and he wants to be with a guard who's not ball dominant.

Now, Lamello Ball is pretty ball dominant,

but he doesn't need to be.

He takes more catches you at three this year,

but it doesn't have to be Yannis.

What if they're the Trey Murphy team?

What if they decide to go after two doubles,

and it's, oh, like, we're the Lou Dorit team,

and we did, like, we traded for I say

a heart and decided to Lou Dorit from the Thunder,

or something like, so this team,

I think that you could have made the case,

they were gonna be looking to get good

after this year regardless.

The fact that they've been able to be this good

for such an extended period of time,

add some, I would say, pleasant variance

to what they might do over the offseason.

There is any big name that's in the front corner.

I honestly, short of it being a small ball dominant guard,

is there someone that can amelon

to the trademark of note they use it?

They don't make any sense in Charlotte.

That's also the type of malleability

this core provides them with too.

The thing I am now obsessed with,

because I just was looking at the cap sheet

10 seconds ago is like, could you use your picks

to clear the salaries of bridges, green, and Williams,

which is like 50-ish, 50-plus, closer to 52, I guess.

And then you get in the restricted free agent,

offer sheet game.

And it's like, it doesn't have to be durin'

because that would take almost all of it.

But it's like, what if this is just,

you make an offer to Tari Esen

that the Rockets can't match?

And now Tari Esen is in there at the four.

And you still have the obate at the five.

Or you just, some of the restricted free agents

are really tantalizing.

And maybe the way that's there,

if he's healthy, there's a lot, right?

Like, you could, I mean, you still have,

you have Kobe White that you're gonna need to pay

to bring back.

I do think he's kind of a luxury,

but I'm interested in continuing that relationship

if I'm a hornet's just because you don't,

your bench offense is awesome now too.

But it would take a lot of precursor moves,

but to get in the restricted cap space

free agency game would be,

because there's a handful of guys

that make a lot of sense,

that would be really exciting for them.

And then like, even if you're trading your own picks,

who cares, because you're awesome?

And you can just go now,

and you're gonna be conveying the 24th pick

in the draft a couple of times or whatever.

Do you think, would they be, let's just say,

I'm assuming maybe if Milwaukee was acquiring this player,

while giving up Yannis, they wanna keep him.

But what if he's extension knowledgeable?

So maybe if they're thinking about the next iteration

of their team, it's do they wanna pay him?

I'm in Thompson, if they latch on to just sort of,

like if he gets sent out in a Yannis deal,

that's the, I don't think Houston wants to give up.

I'm in Thompson, I don't, so I bet against it,

but that would be, do they just come in,

you throw more picks, the bucks is way,

and you swoop in and come get, like, imagine him on this team.

I mean, because then he's your four, right?

And that's a more sensible role, I think, for him.

They, yeah, that's a good, dark horse.

I guess a Kung-Woo, just even like,

just throw like a lower level,

but still really good name out there.

What do the hawks wanna do with a Kung-Woo?

Like, could you get him?

There's a lot of injuries.

What's interesting here is we've praised the hornets

and for behavior that has gotten them to this point,

which is like, they've been very measured.

They've, they've just picked up little incremental wins.

They've been opportunistic and going and getting

someone like white, and they were opportunists

to go get sexed in before, which allowed them to go get,

what, then to then say, time to swing.

Like, that would be just so out of character,

but like the timing feels right.

And the other thing too is, could they have their

de-Aaron Fox moment with San Antonio to where it's,

oh, they got that guy, but the price was just reasonable.

Let's not, we gave up four first round picks for Desmond Bain.

It's we gave up, and more so like, the Utah deal

didn't feel like they did anything outlandish,

even though they gave up three first round picks,

and Taylor Hendrix and Walter McNeely,

to get, to Jaren Jackson Jr.

excuse me, Plankton, who, by the way,

would have been a fun horned horned horned trait.

That's what you said earlier, Stan's like,

they have their one, two, and three set.

And so just four and five is easy,

because any player type is going to make sense

as long as you're a credible defender.

So just the, the, like the runways clear.

Just this, the problem is they're over the cap.

Like, right now it's just, it would have to be a big trade.

It can't, you know,

veterans, can you get Peyton watching from Dent,

because Dentver will match the mid-level exception,

like the 15 million a year.

If Dentver doesn't match the mid-level exception,

some investigations need to happen.

That's, yeah, that, I wish they had cap space,

and they could get it, they would just cost them

those picks trading these guys away.

I will say you just can't, you need to know

you're getting those, well, I can't do it to get,

go after a restricted free agent,

because I need to know that.

Right, because then what you're doing then

is clearing the decks to just,

and then phase two of that plan is,

we're definitely overpaying for this restricted guy,

because we can't risk a match having done all this stuff

leading up to it.

So yeah, that's, that's my pie in the sky plane.

It's not going to happen.

I wish they'd do it.

Here's the better pie in this guy plane.

They don't even need to get him.

I just want the hornets to make

Yannis's list of preferred trade destinations.

I need some, I want to,

will they have a banner for that?

Just, yeah, I would,

I just want to play to identify

an up-and-coming team and say, you know what?

I want, I want to be the,

he'll be the focal point now for the most part,

but then they're like built to just let him age gracefully,

you would think.

Yannis puts them on the list,

Steph sees it, says, you know what?

Like to end my career back home.

Yannis and Steph come in,

and that's just the rest of them.

They become the 20, whatever Brooklyn Nets

was at the 2018 Brooklyn Nets,

when they blew up their promising,

like team, that was,

that's where nearly as plucky

as the situation of the hornets,

but they're,

I think there's a chance that

their all season isn't compelling,

which is just because that's how they've operated

over the past few years.

I do expect them to do,

even on a, not this player specifically,

but on a Peyton Watson level move.

I think they'll do something like that.

I hope so.

I mean, just, it's sitting right there.

We're rooting for you guys.

Upgrade the, listen, sorry,

but this is gonna be the first in a series of episodes

where we find a way to shoehorn the hornets in

and have a 10 minute conversation about them,

because this is the most fun young team

that's emerged in it.

I mean, I don't even know what the list is in a long time.

I just, I would love to fast,

but I don't necessarily need to fast,

but if they for some reason make the playoffs

and give, let's say the,

the pistons or the Celtics

or the Nick's Hell in a first round series,

the number of inflammatory things

that I'm gonna demand that they do

over the offseason is going to be out of control.

You could take your huge victory lap too

on the Lamello of it all,

because, well, I mean,

maybe they need to do that playoff noise thing

to really just give it a full W.

This is the, still,

let's hope he stays healthy for the rest of this season

and then he needs to continue being on the court.

And this needs like another season of I,

I was before I take my victory lap.

Okay.

All right.

I got my stamina to get to that amount of cardio

that I'm prepared this time next year.

Well, I will force the victory lap out of you.

Anything else?

All the hornets are third in the Eastern Conference

or something flirting with 50 victories.

Yannis and Mobello have formed one of the best

one, two, five, him, Kanipal.

Dreams.

I don't have anything else.

Those, I think those were good dark horse teams.

I mean, Charlotte sure was.

Put my Orlando pick the shenanigans.

Thanks everybody for watching, for listening.

Rate, review, and subscribe.

Tell your friends, tell your enemies.

Let us know if we missed anybody.

There's 30 teams we only talked about like eight of them.

So I'm sure there's a,

there's an actual other dark horse

of big offseason move and shaker

that is worth discussing.

And you can do that in a discord as well.

Links for that and YouTube podcast description.

Shout out to Franklin Latina.

Apologies, Jared Allen.

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