Neal Tricarico: Autistic Teens Are 30% More Likely to Die by Suicide | DSH #1759

Autism service providers are aware just how at risk these kids are but they don't have any training to help them on the mental health side

So they send us over to the mental health side when you come over to the mental health side those providers share

Hey, you know because we would share with them. Hey Anthony's on the spectrum

And this was a two-year journey for us. Anthony was wildly aware of this is a real possibility for him

But each time we would mention autism or high-functioning autism

They were like, oh well, we don't have any special

Protocols and in fact many of the things that happened for him in that space actually contributed to his isolation to his

Listeness we've only come to learn about after

Okay guys very special guest today very special episode

It's gonna hit pretty deep with a lot of you guys. We got Neil from the Endurant Movement. Thanks for a did you drive or fly out today?

I drove

Yeah, you bet five hour drive, right? Yeah, five hours happy to be here. San Diego. That's where homeless. That's where home is. Yes, you've been there for a while

I've been there for 20 years. Wow. Yeah, it feels like the sweet spot of the universe to be on that coast and

Just you know blessed for the climate and the people there. It's a pretty pretty special spot

Nice so for those that don't know the Endur movement. I think we should start there right could you explain what that's about?

Yeah, so the Endurant Movement was

Born out of the tragic loss of our son Anthony. Anthony was bright

Brilliant

seemingly thriving

But Anthony also suffered from or was diagnosed with high functioning autism and sadly about a year ago he took his life and

Born out of that loss even speaking about it elicits it takes my breath away

I want to be in the corner in the fetal position, but something

Magical came from that loss

I'm a profound

Purpose if you will and

A desire a movement some action within us that my wife and I realized

Amidst this deep pain. There was a stronger calling or a greater purpose to help others and

Through that the Endurant Movement was founded. It was born out of the profound love

We experienced from our community. Yeah, the cheering on if you will of how important it was for us to share our story and how it was helping so many people

And also to to honor Anthony

Anthony was aware of

His ideations and there was a two-year journey for us where we were

Trying to save his life and sadly what we came to realize after is that

Kids especially between 12 and 18 who are on the autism spectrum are

30% more likely to take their own lives

Yeah, and so from that

Came this this this pull right when I say the purpose is greater than the pain

We could easily be in the corner in the fetal position suffering, but when we learned that and

That coupled with Anthony's friends saying gosh if this could happen to him it could happen to any of us

We realized a call to something much greater and what we found was as an extension of the movement is that these teens

Really need our help what they're sharing with us is that what we're doing for them is not working

So that that being having some expert come into high schools and delivering a 45-minute presentation

Across a PowerPoint deck of what to look for in your friends and then what to tell your parents and then leaving isn't working

What they're asking for are safe spaces where they can support

each other in their healing and growth and also

For voices. So as I've shared we've launched the endurance show to spread

awareness or

these life-saving opportunities and

What we've come to realize is that they have their voices. So

Since we're a newer organization we're pivoting and growing like crazy and

Excited to share we're launching the teen voices component of the endurance show where teens themselves will be interviewing one another

interviewing experts on topics that are most relevant to them teen mental health body shaming

Bullying sexual orientation diversity growing up in a household where it's not okay to cry

So anyways long story short

The Endorant movement is is born out of our son Anthony's story and our my wife and I and our family and our daughter

Answering that call to something greater, but it's intention through the 501c3. It's a nonprofit is to create this movement

That'll ultimately lead be led by teens and other families as we look to

To help people through the same journey hopefully through awareness of saving lives and in the event that lives our loss to help people

Transmute that deep pain into growth that we can actually

Grow from loss we could easily experience you know post-traumatic stress disorder and be paralyzed by our

grief and suffering or

We can make a decision

That's something is greater there may be a greater calling out of this and if we're able to open our hearts and our eyes to the possibility

We could grow in the most beautiful and profound ways

First of all, thanks for what you do man

Very grave of you and on our intro call I shared what happened with my father. You know my father had

They called it Asperger's pretty similar to autism, right? Yeah, that was actually that that was the diagnosis

That was Anthony's diagnosis for some reason it's gotten confusing now to put it in on the spectrum

Where it's a part of everything else, but yes, I can really got diagnosed at 60 and then you know

He took his own lives, so we share that bond and um, I think it's really important because now I have a lot of friends

That are having kids and I would say

Majority of them are getting diagnosed with autism more than 50% isn't that crazy? It is so crazy

It's really alarming. So this is going to be a major issue. It is it is

um

Yeah, it is it is so alarming and the the prevalence of the diagnosis

Is so much greater because certainly back when I was growing up there was an evic diagnosis and then there was

Diagnosis, you know 20 some years ago with Asperger's yeah, now people are finding the courage and strength to to say hey, I may be

A bit different let me find out what's going on

Yeah, I was on the phone with my mother yesterday and she grew up in China. I was asking her

Hey, did people grow up with autism around you? She said she couldn't remember a single kid

Like I asked her did people have acne? She said no

It's just all these health issues now. It's really weird. It is you know

It is and it's it's fascinating that you say like over 50% because interestingly enough

You know, I remember back I hadn't thought about this, but you know when Anthony was born

We met other parents

Whether it be through birthing classes or you know play groups if you will and I was fascinated at the time about

The percentage of kids in his immediate group that that also were on the spectrum

Yeah, my sample size is small granted maybe 10 friends

But over five of them have already diagnosed and I'm talking babies. Yeah, like not even like fully grown yet

And they're already noticing it and babies, you know, yeah

It's so very hard and I'm also grateful to hear that they're recognizing it early because that's that's one thing that was helpful

For us was that Anthony was diagnosed

Around six years old and so the services and everything that we had were we're extremely helpful

And in some ways they were anticipatory and that they shared, you know

Anthony may have a difficulty making friends. He may be susceptible to bullying

Yeah

And in in our case

Fortunately, I think because of

His ability to learn how to live in a society that thought differently than him

He was able to camouflage and mask that so he had a tremendous group of friends

I wasn't bullied, but one of the things that

Hurts my heart and my wife's heart is that no one ever shared with us

This possibility of

Suicide in this group

And they were talking with each other about it. Yeah, I mean, so they we you know when when Anthony went to the autism center for services

He would go four days a week and then once or twice a month they would meet with my wife and me and talk about

How he was progressing and things to anticipate, but they never

mentioned this statistic. Yeah, we only learned about it after

And so it was hard was in in in in reaching back out to these centers is it is the

Elephant in the room if you will autism service providers are aware

Just how at risk these kids are but they don't have any training

To help them on the mental health side so they send us over to the mental health side when you come over to the mental health side

Those providers share hey, you know because we would share with them

Hey, Anthony's on the spectrum. I mean this was a two-year journey for us. Anthony was

Wildly aware of this is a real possibility for him, but each time we would mention

Autism or high functioning autism. They were like oh well. We don't have any special

Protocols and in fact many of the things that happened for him in that space

Actually contributed to his isolation to his helplessness

We've only come to learn about after because they were probably putting him on medication, right? Yeah, and he was

super resistant to that

We supported him in it in his case when he was on that medication. It actually increased his ideation

Wow, yeah, was it antidepressants? I think so. I mean it was only a few days

We were he was actually so uncomfortable in the

Institution or facility if you will yeah that

Beforehand while he was begging us to have him go because he needed that kind of help

Then he was begging us to to take him out. He didn't like the rooms with no windows all the

The light

The medication also in the support groups other kids were

Giving him ideas. So we're not here to like to really blame or point fingers

But to point out you know two important gaps as it relates to autism

There's this huge gap it the the statistics are undeniable

They're doing great things in Europe about it and in addition to the 30% more likelihood this group

Is the highest percentage of completion meaning they're not doing it for attention

They're doing it with their black and white thinking to to complete

That's a 12-18 group you're talking about. Yeah, that's a 12-18 group. Is that males?

Males statistically are higher what's scary is if you take teenage males

ASD diagnosis and

COVID

Anthony was more than 60% likely to do this holy crap. Yeah, it's crushing to think about

After my god

Shout out to today sponsored quince as the weather cools

I'm swapping in the pieces that actually gets the job done. That are warm durable and built to last

Quince delivers every time with wardrobe staples. I'll carry you through the season

They have false staples that you'll actually want to wear like the 100% Mongolian cashmere for just $60

They also got classic fit denim and real leather and wool out of wear that looks sharp and holds up by partnering directly with ethical factories and top

Quince cuts out the middleman to deliver premium quality at half the cost of similar brands

They've really become a go-to across the board. You guys know how I love linen and how I've talked about it on previous episodes

I picked up some linen pants and they feel incredible

Quality is definitely noticeable compared to other brands layer up this fall with pieces that feel as good as they look

Go to quince.com slash DSH for free shipping on your order and 365 their returns. They're also available in Canada too

Yeah

So you had covid yeah, yeah covid so covid for him and others on the spectrum that that's when Anthony

Was diagnosed officially with depression. Got it

So when covid hit and he could no longer be out and about with his friends playing free

Fishing seeing them interacting with them. He fell into a deep depression. It's very difficult to get him out of bed

Fishing is something he shared with his buddies and and I shared with him

But it's very difficult to convince a high-functioning autistic child that it's okay to go past the

Police tape to go fishing. Yeah, right. They're very rules oriented. So it's it's black and white

Which is like they handled it the worst the worst right? So

Eventually we were able to convince him like hey, we're not going to get in trouble. Let's go

Fishing and stuff, but yeah between covid the teenage boy and this

particular diagnosis it's um that that has so much to do with with the pull like that that percentage is

Shocking. I see so many similar as my father. He was big on fishing

And he couldn't do that during the pandemic in Jersey pretty liberal state

And also he was in a psych ward right before

I mean took his life and he was never the same after that

A withdrawal from the medication got him shaking and just in his own head, you know

I do when you say I know you know, I'm so I'm so sorry and it's it's something that that I've come to understand

stays with folks

I mean you said your dad was it's 60 like that that

Perseverance of those ideas

in

Their heads if you will just just continues and

And we want and need to be able to help them and in Anthony's situation was very similar

I could remember walking out of

The mental health facility and to just see him take in the fresh air and the trees and

Feel this relief and saying I never want to do that again

It by wife and I quietly had hoped like maybe it's some way he was like scared straight

Or it was like I don't want to do this but what he also said to us

That was very scary was he said um, you know

I'm never going to share about this with you guys again. There's no help for me

And that that that scared us tremendously even over the next

You know 10 11 months or a year between that experience and and him ultimately taking his life

We were able to communicate about it with him and it was so important to him that we used the word that we break the stigmatism

I know it it sucks for these capabilities where we want to spread awareness that that we can't say the word

But it was important to him that we broke the stigma around

Suicide this mission is born

From his experience, but um also there was a profound

Helplessness it sounds maybe it's similar to your father's story where like there is no help for me. Where do I fitting?

Lot of isolation man

Yeah, we're social creatures, right? Yes, we're not people to talk to I've been through to I've been depressed diagnosed

anxiety all that and when I look back at that time period I was by myself

I didn't have anyone around me, you know, I didn't have anyone to talk to

Um, I'm so grateful you've brought us on and that you're you know sharing vulnerable about your story too

So one of the things that we've come to learn Sean is through some some work and

Some experts that we've been blessed to interact with since then and and primarily this uh psychologist dr

Gupta

Is there's no there's not there's nothing really profound

We need to do what what he and others are doing that we found that's working is just sitting these kids down

And helping them understand they're not their diagnosis

Even the word disorder

So if we say autism spectrum disorder we're labeling these kids as having a disorder

But and so immediately by telling them they have a disorder now that the work that they're doing the therapy is to become normal

And it it hurts my heart so much because after Anthony's passed we found journals

I have autism. I'm different. What's wrong with me? I have a disorder and we just

Not not flippantly, but we we that's what they call that autism spectrum disorder

So we use the word to we used asd we proliferated that but what they're finding out is really working is taking that deal

Just saying hey, you have something called autism and it's a difference. So our eyes are both brown

But you know, someone I just met from here is blue eyes, right? So we have brown eyes with blue eyes

Helping these kids understand that there's just a uniqueness and a difference and also to embrace that difference

So when we can help them find their tribe

They're superpowers and their superheroes

Extraordinary things can happen, right? You know, so for me I grew up in the 80s. I love sports. You know Keith Hernandez was my hero

You know other generations that maybe sports people are rock stars

But what they're helping these kids understand is

What's their superpower, right? They're unique gifts that we all have and they're super bright and intelligence

They have gifts

Who are their tribes where they can fit in and those gifts resonate and who are their superheroes?

So in many cases for these kids, it's like Elon Musk

Right high functioning autistic. I mean just yeah wildly successful

But it's but it's so profound. So there's not like oh, we need to do millions of dollars of research or we just need to help these

Kids embrace their differences find their superheroes

Find their tribe and then help them through this very risky period

So that they can thrive as adults much like many of the most successful

People we can think of do many of them are on the spectrum many

Yes top CEOs top athletes top professionals

That's why I think we should rewrite the narrative around shaming autism. Yes. I think it should be seen as a power these days

Man

I don't know you've got 4k cameras here. Maybe it picks up these goosebumps, but yeah, you know and

You know this this difference is near and dear to me because it happened to us

But as the mission of endurance by the way, endurance means

capable of overcoming extreme adversity and hardship and it also has a little meaning to us as well because it has

Ant in it and Ant was Anthony's nickname. That's how he was known

But but we we agree we should stop shaming autism

And embracing those superpowers, but then also as we've understood from these other kids

They don't want to see their autistic friends die, but they don't need you also want to see their friends body shamed or shamed because of their

You know orientation or differences or they're upbringing and so

Um, yeah, man. I think that's what this is really

grounded about is helping these teens who know what to do to to transcend from shaming shaming to

Not only acceptance, but appreciation and knowledgement of those gifts and superpowers for sure

Yes, so I got diagnosed at 27 with it. I can't even think but if I got diagnosed at seven or even seventeen

My life would have looked a lot different. I think yeah, it would have put me in the special classes. I would have been shamed. They would have been bullied

Um, yeah, so part of me is kind of grateful in a way that it happened so late because I think if it happened earlier

It would have been a very different life

And I agree. I mean just generally speaking and not trying to

You know be flipping time. I'm a firm believer in all of us have our our our journeys to arrive where we have and when when I think about

Your story and your impact on such a wide scale. It's such a young age

Absolutely right and you had to overcome some adversity or struggle to transformation to make that happen

and I think that

There there are opportunities

For these kids with this diagnosis to to grow and thrive in a way that's not

Separate in shaming again dropping that disorder integrating them

because

Yeah, they're they're

They're beloved anthony's friends are beside themselves like if this could happen to anthony it could happen to anyone there

Yeah shocked his friends have it too or will this friend group? Um, so yeah great question. I mean

Most of anthony's friends group did not um, it was I mean like I said early on when he was a baby

Um, that initial friend group did and one of the things that's really fascinating

About anthony's story is how hard he worked to

Learned the skills to fit in into an emotional world when he was an unemotional person. Mm-hmm. So

I would say the majority of his friend group were not diagnosed um or excuse me did did not

Did not have the diagnosis and and most of them didn't even know he did wow that's how he hit it well

He hit it well

He hit it really really well and for us

That's what was most confusing because here you have this kid with a 4.6 grade point average 4.6 multiple AP classes

um

Thrived in martial arts was a black belt took on challenges. He was in a um a

Uh, a boot camp. Um, what's the what's the word I'm looking for a Navy SEAL style boot camp that was for 16 to 18 year olds

Um, and I think he convinced them to let him do it even though he was 15 something like that

He was the youngest person to ever complete this. He was doing Spartans. He was an entrepreneur. He

Melted and sold fishing lures when that wasn't profitable. He turned to merch. We found these different

counts that he was

Selling stuff. He also had a job at a local restaurant. So from the outside world everyone's like oh my gosh

This this kid is thriving. Yeah friends parents teachers

But it was so hard for us because

We knew it was at such a tremendous cost

That camouflaging that masking to fit in

Sadly ultimately broke him wow. Yeah that emotional aspect of autism

Do you think that's learnable because that's something I've struggled with myself?

Um great question

How to interact with others and in an emotional world um

Is learnable

Through my observation not through my experience

But what what is also interesting to me is is that what cost?

And is it really better

And I maybe pose it back as a question to you because you know, I don't know because I didn't live his life and it was such a struggle for me

But I guess the question that comes from it for me is it is it ultimately better to

appear to be emotionally connected or might it be better to to appear

As you are in your most authentic real way that emotion isn't a part of your makeup and other things are

Wow, what a great question. Yeah, you know, yeah, my gut is the latter. Yeah, I got to really think about that

Yeah, I love authentic so the emotional so when someone's faking it a little too much. Yeah, I find that in authentic

Yeah, meet me too

And that's what I love about you in your show

And I think it's a really interesting question

We should explore with you and others like you because I've seen the impact of

How hard he masked I mean he took his life now

I wonder if he got through this critical period might that help him in later years

But in some ways it's not being true to yourself. Yeah, right? We want to transcend doing

I mean like we we want to transcend like

Trying to fit in to to being acknowledged and accepted so as as I sit here, but not living in your shoes or his shoes

my

opinion

Would be that that that we should be authentic and those of us that that are emotional and are looking for that emotional connection

Should look to accept where people how and where they are and try and find that connection point

And as we're sharing this it makes me think about just how hard it was

To connect with Anthony because being vulnerable and real is I'm a very um

He's authentic too, but a very emotional person. So I was trying to

Impart or ingrained that emotional connection whereas in hindsight

I maybe could have done a better job of letting that go and trying to find what was his juice

Because you live in empathy. Maybe he never had that capability, right? Yes, that's certain levels of autism

Some of them are even non-verbal some can process emotions

That's right and that's what's tricky about the breadth of the spectrum

Right, it's like I have people ask me like well how are non-verbals 30% more likely to take their own lives than the high functioning and it's

it's

It's both helpful and confusing that the spectrum so broad. Yeah, well myself. I'll speak on myself on about your son

But I grew up with a lot of identity issues

You know what I mean? Yeah, I was constantly trying to please people. I wasn't being my authentic self because I was scared to

But now at 28 I could finally say I'm authentic like I'm doing whatever I want and there's no shame anymore man. It it

It brings me so much joy to hear that and and also so much hope like if if we can help

These kids at risk the 30% of them, right? I mean, so a third in that range to

To

Thrive through that period and get to that place you have will be profound because I know with certainty

Anthony struggled with identity

All through his journey always trying to fit in and

magically he was fitting in but was fascinating when I when I think about it I think about some

Some parties he had he was very social and he would he would have

Parties and get together is in high school even though his his experimentation with you know drinking or cannabis was very short

He found he didn't like how it all third is thinking

But he would host these parties and just love the connection and everything

But but sometimes I would peek outside and and then watch him and and I could see him

Struggling and I the words that come to mind is like in an identity chase

And always like who am I going to be what am I going to do and he would talk to me about that

A lot like we should do a podcast together

We got to get this word out and help people that was going to be his senior

Project so so much of the vision and mission is us carrying that forward

Through him for him, but it's it's helping these kids understand

It's okay to not have an identity and explore who you are over the years

I mean you you founded it 28. I'm you know

I've been thrust into an entirely new yeah identity. So maybe it's taking some of that that pressure off in those early years

Yeah, that's so relatable man. I used to host parties myself. Mm-hmm. Yeah, trying to fit in. Yeah, I'm trying to please people

Kids would mess up my house with no regard

And it just made me feel even worse honestly

Crazy yeah, it is and um it really it's home. I'm grateful that

You've shared that with me um it's

It's hard because

You know, I

I've been able to transcend sort of my regret, but it's it's not to to fall back

It's just human to fall back into it, but I've learned so much and met

So many people and just my human nature is gosh. I wish I knew that then right but I and that that call that call

If we want to explore that at all that that that call to something greater that opened up from this

It is so profound that there's an opportunity to

To impact so many more lives. It's it's it's a tremendous personal cost, but a greater

Impact if we're saving multiple lives. Yeah, and it it happened to cost one

I'll be it you know our son. Yeah, my fault. I didn't mean that as as a tack on you

No, no, no, no, no, no fault whatsoever. I what I wanted to say, but maybe didn't come across as I'm

I'm grateful for those reminders because it both puts me in the shoes of the parents who are going through it now

who we can help and also that this

happening to me

is

I mean, let's be very clear. I would trade it all to have him back

And this happening the the moment that our lives changed and the path that we're on more

Is a far greater impact in meaning than than what I was doing before. Yeah, and lives are at risk and to be saved

So so no fault. It's it's a reminder and encouragement

That we really are on the right track. So thank you. I love that. I did want to bring up just Sanya, which is how we met

Yes, she's

Change in my life. Change your life. Yes. Provided me so much closure with my father. I'm sure she did the same for you

Yeah

So we're talking about

Just any common friend of ours and she was somebody that that I'm grateful that I was introduced to

Early on to make some spiritual sense of this and I'd love to go back if I might just a moment

Sooner and then come back to just any if it's all right because I think this context is important

From Anthony's attempt

To his ultimate passing was about nine weeks

You know Anthony had a coping mechanism when he was really down and struggling to to go outside and get some fresh air and on this particular night

That's what he shared with us and unfortunately on this particular night. That was the first time he made a different decision

It didn't come back. He sadly he hung himself and when first responders found him

They were able to revive him, but his brain injuries were so significant

That he was in a in a coma for nine weeks, but two two things happened that really

catapulted all this and then ultimately led to just Sanya was number one is a client of mine

Susan McGinnis who runs this core mastermind

She asked if she could host a all faiths welcome prayer circle to send love and light to Anthony

This was the third night at the hospital. We said yes

We were willing to do whatever it took some 75 people showed up from that from different faiths different beliefs

All pouring their love into Anthony and into us and I think that's the first time we got out of the fetal position

Kind of said okay, we're open to this and then what happened from there is each Sunday for nine weeks

Someone new stepped up and led this all faiths welcome prayer circle

So whether Jesus died on the cross so that Anthony could in the Buddhist tradition. We believe X so that Anthony could

This Zohar explains this or in my non-faith belief. I believe this

But what was powerful is across all these beliefs what was received by

Anthony

Samara my family and me was pure love and light so all the all the friction all the polarity all the things that used to exist through

People's interpretation of religion. It was almost like we transcended that

To what it really actually was was love

Deep connection and profound connection and community

That was critical then the second thing that happened is um, I am you know

grateful in my previous life

I worked a number of years with with Tony Robbins on his executive team. I was these executive leader for business sales and

Part of what he would call his chosen family and on the second or third night he reached out and sent my wife and me an audio

And you know, he he acknowledged what was going on and but he implored us and I'll remember it

He said something to the effect of

Neil and Samara. I know it's very difficult to to feel or think about this now

But if you open your heart and you open your eyes

You're being called to something greater. Should you choose? There's a greater lesson here

If your eyes and hearts are open you're going to make new friends

Join new cohorts find new mentors reconnect with old mentors

But people are going to show up in your life

That are going to become part of this journey

and

The first when we got over like how that that's so Tony

You know, we're struggling over here our son is hey get out by a thread

It was almost like this shock wave went through us the next moment. We were outside the hospital

This woman came up from out of nowhere who is one of Anthony's friends moms and she said hey

I'm so glad to run across you and I hope this doesn't sound strange

But you guys like if you open your eyes

There's angels all around you here on earth that want to show up and help wow

So that that's been our our journey. I mean even up to this moment new friend new cohort new way to share this journey

So literally

We've just had to keep showing up. So that gets us to Jacenia

Where things really changed and my wife and I are so grateful that the spiritual

Mediumship work that Jacenia has done and help us to to understand

That this is in fact a greater mission a souls mission to hear and experience through Anthony himself

mom and dad

You guys are capable of this you're chosen. It's a small amount of pain that you two can endure

for a much larger and greater impact

That that whole confluence of community

Into spirituality has put us into this

Almost in between portal, you know, we're certainly not in heaven

But we're not here on earth where I feel the connection I I feel our hearts and souls

Connected through this I feel a larger

Mission at play in this and um, I just think

Spirit God universe whatever you want to call it every day Jacenia

You know other than my immediate family has had the most profound impact on

our ability to

To alchemize this this pain and to stay on this side of suffering

So that we might impact lives. Wow. I mean you already are

I don't think it's might anymore. Yeah, thanks you probably have hundreds of people like that you're affecting already

Man, yes, you know, it's it's um. I don't I don't know why I'm I'm reluctant to admit because like sometimes

It just feels like you know, hey every just grieving parents trying to share our story

But yes hundreds have reached out dozens have reached out

Personally about specific

Things we've said or shared that impacted a conversation with their child while some of which were in

Crisis and or attempt mode so yeah, so those guys will go on to have families like the butterfly effect, you know

Yes without question. So I'm glad that um, I don't know. Maybe I'll put a stake in the sand and stop talking about in the in the future

Lives are actually yeah, you're living it right now

Yeah, and the feedback from this one's gonna be amazing. I get messages every day myself, and it's like

Reminds me why I'm doing this, you know because it's easy to get lost in the sauce of social media

But when you see the impact especially when people come up to you in person

Like that's when it really hits me. Yes, man. Yes

Gosh, yes, and all of what you said there is true too sometimes with social media and that

How it polarizes or or certain things that that we need or throttled

Sort of gets me down, but it's it's folks like you that that remind me like there's and and one of your interviews this guy shared it as well. It's like

Damn it. We have to we have to play this game

And and so that that that really resonated with me. Okay, I'm gonna play the game until I can take it to a place where we can

Change the rules of the game and create a new game

Yeah, and that's really what I see you you're doing man, and I and I honor you and I'm borrowing a lot of confidence

From what I see you doing. Thank you. Thank you, man. How did you meet you Sonia? I was at through a mutual front

Yeah, it was it was it was um

Even just like

Tony said I met this person Matin um who who I had this session with to understand

That my my superpowers are the transmission of love and wisdom that I should step into a more

public experience of that

Public speaking getting on shows podcasts, which I was petrified about but

But on some level struck me as like how that that that feels right

So I've been stepping into it and after my session with him. He's like hey, I want to

Introduce you to a friend of mine. Just Sonia. She has this gift that she does for parents who have lost a child

And that's when I had that that first reading. Wow. Yeah, and and when it um

Yeah, it was very it was some part like

Explaining and understanding the peace that he had that he was at which gave me a lot of peace and also his journey

Um in the fears that I had about lost through suicide

But it was only a small portion of that the the rest of it was like this this call

To this this soul mission and this alignment that we did

Contracted in in some way for this greater impact that just

struck me in a very vertical way and um

Yeah, can compelled me into action and I didn't know what action to take

But what was so beautiful about having our hearts cracked wide open was that

All of the next right actions just show up. Mm-hmm. The only time there's friction is when I

Get into my head or I think that I have to do something or create something for more of an impact

The logical brain takes a logical brain takes over so um I'm doing everything. I possibly can to keep this hard open keep these eyes open

And just stay open and connected. I love that yeah, my thoughts used to control me

I would lay at bed at night and just go crazy like thinking I'm like not enough, you know

Now I just I try to live in flow state

I recognize the thoughts now. I try not to like let my thoughts control me

You're gonna have such an impact on on these teens growing up

I know so much of what you're doing or my observation of what you're doing is on a larger scale

But for for kids and teens to to hear about that

From you we're not we're not trying to change that but it's it's kind of like

Oh me too and then the rest of your story is like and and here's what here's what's possible

Here's what's become of it. Oh, yeah, it hits very deep for me because I had a lot of issues as a teen

You know mentally physically a lot of identity issues even my body. I wasn't confident in my my physical appearance

So when I get asked to speak at schools. I do it for free

Like I don't even charge because I know it's gonna go on to have some big impact

Even if it's just like 20 kids in a classroom like my old high school teachers will come out

Ask me to speak and I love it

Because you're very vulnerable

Like mindset-wise at those ages your brain still developing till 26

Well, man, I have we we would love to have you

I know you get to to San Diego from time to time

But it would mean so much to these kids to to hear from you and love to and also we're super grateful. We got a

The donation from Tony Robbins actually a match

To to build this studio, which we're actually building as we speak so the teens can start that's all shooting their episodes

It's in our garage

But it's also like a place where we can have teens and then it'll also be virtual

But yeah, if there's an opportunity for them to hear from you and then also how you're doing it because

It's cool instead of like telling them oh social media is bad or or stay off your phones or whatever like you know

They're misunderstood around that they

We as parents didn't have that so so yes of course those those better days of playing until the street lights went off and

Not being on our phones. Yeah, yeah, but I mean that that's that's the world we grew up in yeah these kids also see these

These platforms and opportunities as ways to connect and we want to embrace that aspect and help them

With that that's that's our

Our biggest focus in the coming weeks is is really getting their stories out there. I love the I think every middle school in high school

Should have podcast studio. I know that's a hot take, but my favorite memories

That I have or mean my dad on YouTube

Our old videos on like a blurry logic logic tech webcam. Yeah, it's me and him singing songs and just talking about life

Yeah, so to have those memories like it means a lot

I'm so glad you shared that and of course for me growing up in the 80s and 90s

My favorite class was I forget the name of what it was but it was like media

And so it was like a set like this with

Like a news

Anchor desk and and we were shooting stuff that of course is produced on

VHS, but the kids want to be in it doing the acting so

And so much good um not not food for thought food for action. Yeah, that was my one of my favorite classes too

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's like a podcast. Things like a format therapy. I tell people you really get a lot of your trust

Yeah, it was great

Thank you for acknowledging that sometimes I think selfishly like

For me personally

All of what we're doing. Yes, it's it's the greater mission

And it's also large part self-preservation for me, man. Yeah, you know what I mean

I mean, otherwise I'm sitting in bed

Thinking of all the things I could have done and what I would have done differently and having these conversations that I've been blessed to have and meet the people

Along this journey has been

Self-preserving. Yeah. Yeah. No, you've been through a lot. It's um, I try not to live in the past

But when you deal with so much trauma, it's tough right? Yes, you know, it's almost inevitable

You're gonna have those thoughts pop up and what if moments yeah, and I and I think you're you're

You're doing something and I'm borrowing the confidence from you and I think it's an important

Concept I'd never learned of this concept called post-traumatic growth. Are you familiar with it? No, what is up?

Well, so it's it's really

Building off of what you've said. So we've had these stories of trauma in our past and what I've also come to realize

Is even though I was blessed with little to no adversity for 49 and a half years the the world is faced with challenges and traumas every day

You think my story is

Unimaginable parents worse nightmare. I promise you there there are stories that I've come to learn of that

Take you to your knees worse, but so we've got trauma right and then so

Multiple things can happen two things can happen from trauma

One is we can move into post-traumatic stress disorder

So we stay in the trauma and if we put ourselves into situation where where we're

Where that that is

Amplified so empathy is important, but for for example, right? So you have post-traumatic stress disorder that we're most familiar with when

Soldiers come back from war and all that they've faced in in my world what post-traumatic

stress disorder looks like is

Suffering so we could easily be in the corner suffering. This is every bit of a parents worse nightmare

so initially we started to go to support groups and

Counseling but mostly these support groups so parents of the loss of a child or parents of loss of a child by suicide and what was very interesting is

On the one hand while we felt a deep connection to the people in this group. No one

wants to be in this club

Yet only the people in the club can truly understand what we're all going through

But what we found by and large was that people were staying in their pain and suffering

so they were sharing the trauma reliving this trauma and then

Dozens if not hundreds of people commenting on it online reinforcing that so we stay in suffering and

It's understandable, but what post-traumatic growth says is now wait a minute

All of that is true, but what are the possibilities and opportunities to grow from it?

So to take this pain in trauma and to transmute that pain

Alchemize it into purpose and this is something that I learned from

Gisennia that has really struck with me again if the purpose is greater than the pain

You will take action so post-traumatic growth is

Making a decision that there's some reason that this trauma had for me

And if my heart is open and my eyes are open to discovering that purpose

If I can find that purpose

I will I will be compelled into action you don't even have to think or take action

But if you don't find the purpose you're going to stay in suffering when you do find the purpose the opportunity for growth is extraordinary

So here's here's what I'll share with you without going too far

But I don't know how it shows up on the camera, but I'm someone who's who who loves to pull every aspect of fun

Joy life out of an experience. I am a positive mofo

I love life. I love experiences. I love interacting with other human beings in every possible way

So that's this like so awesome life is amazing, but until I lost Anthony my experience of

Of pain my baseline was here. Yeah, I mean my parents separated for a couple of years in high school

I lost my best friend at cancer when I was 34

I've had hard times, but believe you me this some total of my adversity of 49 and a half years doesn't total losing Anthony

So now my threshold for

Pain is all the way over here

But thank god thank universe my desire for this joy pleasure connection didn't go away

So what it's created is this breath of possibility of experience

I can connect with the deepest level of trauma and pain that would take your breath the way and have you in the fetal position and

through the experiences that I've had

Opening my heart connecting with humans in this other way the spiritual way

So true is the opposite the antithesis of trauma is this most profound

indescribable joy and connection

That I never felt before this trauma. Mm-hmm, but to do it you have to make a decision that says there is some purpose in this

And what that's created for me is not that I'm gonna get over grief that there's a grief has some period

Is that all of this is true? I'm gonna carry this inexplicable unimaginable pain in trauma

and

Have the capacity for the most unbelievable connection love and growth possible

And a man dr. Richard Tadesky coined this

Phenomenon some 30 years ago was so grateful to

To interview him about this, but post-traumatic growth is a real thing. I'm living it

And it's it's a part of

Our mission because

Everything we're going to do to help these teams is going to have a huge impact

And some teens and families will be lost in this opportunity to grow and contribute

From such trauma exists within all of us and I want to

Help the world and especially men who have grown up in this space where you have to be strong you have to

appear in a certain way to let all that be as go and live in a most vulnerable, raw and real way that others can connect with

So they can experience the profundity of this loss. I mean like I said earlier I would trade it all

all of it in a heartbeat to have Anthony back

but the level of

depth and relationships the connections that I'm having with people now the

The the extraordinary places it's taken my marriage to is un unimaginable so so too is the difficulty in the marriage

But that that's what I'm saying is like there's this huge wildly rich life

But if we stay on this side of suffering

No, it's a tragedy because I know with certainty

When I see Anthony again, it's going to feel like a moment hasn't passed

So why would I net waste the next 30 to 35 years that I may have

Wallowing in that suffering when I can have so much impact and when that moment comes be celebrating with him

Wow, that is so deep. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah, but that's that resonates so much because post traumatic growth

I'm going to start using that but so many of the most successful people I know have been through some deep trauma. Yes

Yeah, even Tony. Yeah, you know, yeah, you look into his story. It's like damn. I could have easily went the other way

Absolutely, right? And that's it's that journey that struggle to transformation and and some of us

Maybe blessed to to seek and find it and other of us maybe blessed to

To be hit so hard with us. We're knocked to the floor

But what what are we going to do? How are we going to step up from that?

What what meaning are we going to place on it that that I'm a victim and that I'm going to suffer which is understandable

But

I don't think our loved ones want to discuss that when we arrive

Or are we going to look for something greater that may be there

That could transform our lives and the rest of the time that we have here

So we could celebrate with them and potentially impact so many others. I love it

How could people watching this support you support the charity and come out do you have events? Yeah, yeah

So events is going to be a big part of what we're doing the biggest thing that could really support us right now is is the awareness

We are a 5013c so donations are tremendously helpful

That's on our website endorantmovement.org

But what's most helpful is

Is playing this game someone implored us to

To get out and launch the endurance show so we're on

You know, we're on youtube apple spotify much like yours

We launched last Wednesday the first two episodes our endurance our origin story

The next two drop today, but the the point that I'm getting at is

As many of the things that you're saying to to subscribe to our show if the content resonates with you to

Leave a review

Every other week is my wife and I interviewing experts like you are and then starting in

October then every other week is the teen voices so starting with a teen who lost her mom

In this way and then her dad a short time later wow these teens are going to be doing this every other week. So

Apple and Spotify reached out unsolicited that they want to feature us this month

Or suicide awareness month, but since we're a new show and we don't have a lot of following

They're like imploring us to get some followers. Yeah, so that's my long way of saying that

That more than anything would be most helpful because

The the money will enable us to build a staff like we've started to do but more importantly

Awareness is the cure and the more that we can get these stories out

And impact and save lives the rest will take care of itself

Beautiful we'll link it below and I'll see you in San Diego in a few weeks. Thank you

And that would mean a lot. Yeah, thanks for coming on. I don't really appreciate you. Thanks for your time

Yep, check them out guys. Check out the charity and check out his podcast. I'll see you next time

I hope you guys are enjoying the show. Please don't forget to like and subscribe. It hopes to show a lot with the algorithm

Thank you