New: Where is Austin Tice?

0:00This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. September's always busy. Whole Foods Market can help. Their September stock up event makes it easy to load your pantry and freezer with flavorful nourishing food. Even better, there are hundreds of sales. Get dinner going with canned soups and veggies. Lean on frozen pizzas, pastas and seafood. Everyone loves their build your own family meals feeds for for just $35. Stock up at Whole Foods Market. With VerboCare, help is always ready before, during and after your stay. We've planned for the plot twists so support is always available. Because a great trip starts with peace of mind. Hello, grounded listeners. My name's Josh Baker. I'm an investigative journalist and documentary maker. And if you're a fan of Louise, then you may already know some of my work.

1:00I directed his award-winning BBC documentary, The Settlers. Or you might have heard my previous podcast series. I'm not a monster, and the Shameema Baygon story. I'm telling you this because I've been working on a new podcast investigation, that I think you might like. It's about one of the biggest missing person cases of our time. And it's from the BBC and MPR's embedded. This is, I'm not a monster presents. Where is Austin Tice? Austin's an American journalist who vanished in Syria over a decade ago. And there are many stories about what happened to him. In some, he's alive, held in a cell awaiting rescue. In others, he was smuggled out of Syria and hidden away. In the darkest versions, he died long ago. I speak to spies tracked down war criminals who are in hiding, and uncover details about this case, that have never been made public before.

2:02This is episode one of Where is Austin Tice. Episodes are released twice a week, so to hear the rest of the series, just search for and subscribe to. I'm not a monster presents. On BBC sounds, or wherever you get your BBC podcasts. Before we begin, I just want to explain that this series is an investigation into a real life missing person case. We're in regular contact with that person's family, and inform them of the content of every episode. Thanks for listening. I literally racing from room to room. We're going up another floor. Each room is kind of in contact.

3:05He's saying we need to look here. Which makes sweetness. Somebody tried to burn this and it didn't burn. Don't have a certificate. Something about Lebanese intelligence. It's December 2024. I'm moving down the dark, narrow, windowless corridor of a Syrian intelligence facility with my colleague Sada. This is one of the most notorious and secretive buildings in Syria. And it's where we come to get answers. I'm an aroma. There's been so much fun. It's so precarious. This is the Russian detainee. The German courts, confessions. The death of number one thousand and two. I guess that's per number.

4:05We're searching for information about Austin Tyse. He's an American journalist who disappeared in Syria more than a decade ago. Today, he's one of the most high profile missing person cases in the world. I live this up. Can you look underneath? Nothing here. And this under. Oh my god. Maybe. Yeah, maybe. Let me go quickly and try. You try. The keys we've just found might unlock us safe that we've been told contains answers about what happened to Austin Tyse. Now, I need to see if these are the right keys.

5:06Yeah. Oh, that's amazing. One more night. Yes, this is an okay one more. Let me just step back a few months to the 14th of August 2024. The first time I met Austin's mother. See, I need 13 people to take. Thank you. Do you got no of this? No, I did first place of speaking when I was in middle school. It's definitely good for mother, right? You ready to go? Yeah. Hey, I'm so glad you're here. Thank you. Absolutely. I really appreciate that. This is Debra Tyse. Today marks the 12th of August. This is Debra Tyse. Today marks the 12th anniversary of Austin's disappearance. I'm following her down a corridor at the National Press Club in Washington, DC.

6:09We pass by a large poster of Austin. He's brought shoulder to handsome with thick dark hair and a chisel jaw. Then we enter a grand ballroom. Everyone, we're about to get started if you want to start getting to your seats. Today, we recognize a major and sobering step in the long journey home for Austin Tyse. Twelve years ago today, Austin was taken in Syria, where he was working as a journalist. We are joining together with Austin's friends and his family in urging the U.S. government to bring Austin home. This is no ordinary gathering. There are FBI agents, members of the intelligence community and government officials. Because for more than a decade, every American president has paid attention to Austin's case. On a big screen, recorded messages start to play.

7:10There's the head of McClatchee, one of the news organizations that Austin worked for. Today marks yet another year without Austin Tyse, an American journalist and veteran U.S. Marine, who has been missing in Syria for over a decade. He's followed by Donald Trump's former national security advisor. Then his mother, Deborah, is introduced. She has this long, striking silver hair and warm gentle smile. She's petite and quietly spoken, but exudes a strength that comes from years of refusing to give up on her son. She's a badass. She's a woman of faith. I know she's a huge inspiration to me, and a huge inspiration to many. If you can welcome to the stage, Deborah Tyse.

8:13Right now, I just want to speak to Austin publicly. Stay strong, Austin. Keep the faith. We have many good people working for you and praying for your release. You will walk free again. I love you. You hang in there. The people here see Austin as an American hero who served in Iraq and Afghanistan. Who put his life on the line to report on the civil war in Syria. As the applause dies down, I look around. Faces are still, eyes fixed on nothing. A thousand yard stare shared by many, not least of all Deborah, whose expression seems caught between gratitude for those who've come to honor her son and the quiet, unrelenting weight of his absence. The next day, I meet back up with Deborah at the National Press Club.

9:23She walks over to a grand wooden cabinet. It's got some of Austin's possessions on display. They have these shoes in it. His convos all stars. It's all your war. Magic applause. You look really closely. Yeah, that's his report. Under his name, under his name Austin Tiesworth says, if found please contact, there's a phone number. Oh, that's your hard phone number. And every now and then someone noticed it and they would dare to call. And they would say, are you really his mother? I'm like, I'm really his mother. He wanted to be a journalist, international reporter for MPR. That was his dream. And then when he turned 18, he really was like, if I'm going to go to college, I'm going to Georgetown. And then he called them and said, well, if you don't accept me this semester, I'm going to apply again next semester. And if you don't accept me, I'm going to apply this semester after that.

10:25I'm not going to any other college. I really think he only got in so that they could use their own phone occasionally. So he's a pretty determined guy, then. It's a pretty strong will, I would say. Debra Glances at the cabinet. A soft smile emerges on her face. It makes me wonder, if for a moment, she feels near Austin again. When was the last time you heard from Austin? In 2012. On his first day, August 11, we had the best FaceTime. He must have already been in Damascus when we had that call. Austin had taken a break from his studies at Georgetown, one of the top law schools in the country. He wanted to pursue a dream of becoming a war correspondent. So he spends his summer reporting in Syria. And on his 31st birthday, he calls home to speak to Debra.

11:29After the call, Debra leaves for a camping trip with friends and she has no phone signal. So when she emerges a week later, she calls her husband Mark to check in. Mark said, I need to talk to you, go somewhere that you'll feel strong and that's quiet. So I found a place and I called him back and I said, so what? What is it? And this is, well, Austin is missing. And he's been missing for almost a week. What was going on in your head? What do we do? And how do we navigate this? And then I was in the car and then I heard Austin's interview aired. There's a very real security concern. You know, the Syrian government is notorious for exerting pressure on people by going after their families in really quite violent and atrocious ways. So just so I understand, you've just been told your son is missing and then he comes

12:34on the radio. Yeah, we're all listening to that and kind of, I mean talk about dystopia. I haven't seen my son since 2012. That's the last time I hugged him. I know that my son is somewhere alive. Since the day Austin vanished in war torn Syria, it's been Deborah's mission to get him home. And that means making sure he's not forgotten. And joining me now is Deborah Ties. Deborah Ties. Deborah Ties joins us now. Deborah's campaign has been so effective. She's attracted the attention of everyone from popes to presidents. We are not CC. Are offered to get him. We've no stone unturned in finding Austin and bringing him home. It has disappeared off the face of the earth.

13:35Despite all the resources and political power of the American government, nobody has been able to work out what really happened to Austin Ties. I started looking into Austin's case after I saw his mother Deborah on TV. She was making this heart felt plea for his return and she looked exhausted. It made me think about my own mom and how she'd feel if I disappeared. So I started digging. I'm an investigative journalist who's spent almost a decade working in Syria. I've also worked to help evacuate people from conflict zones when they're in danger. And I have some experience looking for missing people. So I opened my contact book and spoke to everyone from senior officials to people gathering information on the ground in Syed Syria. And eventually I get a meeting with someone who might be

14:38able to help. I feel like we're walking through a postcard. Little fences, pretty flowers, very English. Yeah, it's adorable. Can you tell that I have a cold? I mean, the voice is a little bit husky and normal. It's all right, it's a strong look. Yeah. It makes you edgy. A jeast girl in the English countryside. It's the late summer of 2024. This is Sara Ubedat. She's a Jordanian investigative journalist. We're good friends and we've worked together for a long time. And she just happens to have spent years researching the Syrian prison system. So I've asked for her help in looking into Austin's case. Together we've come to a small village in southern England to meet a Syrian contact.

15:38Hello. How are you? Good to see you. This is Salam. He's smartly dressed with thick dark hair and he has this restless energy. He's asked us not to use his full name because the work he does carries real risks. If he's identified, it could put him and others in danger. When were you in Syria? It was January 2013 when I left Syria. I served in the Syrian army for around 19 years. During the revolution, I defected from the army. In 2011, protests had swept across North Africa and the Middle East. Dictators fell in Tunisia, Egypt and Libya. People wanted their freedom and demanded fairer societies. When the movement reached Syria, President Bashar al-Assad responded with mass imprisonment and murder, plunging the country into civil war.

16:42That's what drove Salam to defect from the Syrian army and join rebel fighters. He went on to build a network that gathers intelligence on the Syrian regime. He even has sources inside Assad's security services. And for years, he's been searching for Austin Tice. I suppose there's this big question at the moment. Austin has now been missing for 12 years. Some people believe he's alive. Others think that there's no way he could possibly survive this long. It's not going to be surprising that he's still alive after 12 years. And the Assad security regime, they're smart enough to know that he's a golden egg. They are very aware of how much the Western community scares about their citizens and how big pressure they can put on the Western governments. The instructions will be to keep him alive, to protect him, to treat him better than other prisoners.

17:43I've been told that around eight months ago, an American journalist was, he looks like Austin, a doctor, visited him because he wasn't a hunger strike. Hoddan, you heard that Austin might be alive eight months ago. That's what I heard. That's what I heard. They think that he was in a very good situation, like he treated differently from the other prisoners. And not in the normal prisons. So if this is true, that would be the most recent time someone has seen him alive. Can you walk me through where he might be? So he was moved to branch to 35, but a Stein branch. No one has both Stein branch. So Salam has information that Austin might be alive, and even a location where he could be held. An intelligence base known as 235 Palestine branch. But we can't get inside Syria.

18:44So it's hard to verify if this is true. Hearing this made me determined to get to the truth. Because there are many stories about Austin Tyson. In some, he's held in a cell waiting to be rescued. In others, he was smuggled out of Syria and hidden away. And in the most tragic, he died long ago. But the truth is, this isn't just a missing person's story. Austin's fate has become entangled in a world of covert talks, secret deals, and power struggles that are still playing out. All while his mother, Deborah, is left searching for answers. Following Austin's trail has taken me from the corridors of power in Washington, D.C. to the depths of Syria's most secret intelligence facilities. Along the way, I've spoken to spies, tracked down war criminals, and uncovered evidence that has never been made public.

19:47And I've learned that there are people who know what happened to Austin Tyson. And some of them don't want the truth to come out. So what really happened to Austin Tyson? I'm Josh Baker, and from BBC Radio 4, an MPR's embedded. This is Where Is Austin Tyson. Series 3 of I'm Not A Monster Presents. Episode 1. We believe he's alive. September's always busy. Whole Foods Market can help. Their September stock-up event makes it easy to load your pantry and freezer with flavorful, nourishing food. Even better, there are hundreds of sales. Get dinner going with canned soups and veggies. Lean on frozen pizzas, pastas, and seafood. Everyone loves. They're build your own family meals feeds for for just $35.

20:50Stock up at Whole Foods Market. Thumbtack Presents. Tile Trouble. Every single time I use my sink, I make eye contact with the uneven growl in my kitchen backsplash. The crooked corners eye me, and I'm haunted by more tiling questions than I thought possible. What kind of pro can fix a backsplash? Can I replace one crack tile, or should I replace them all? What? But if I just use Thumbtack, I can hire top rated pros, read reviews, and compare prices with a tap, all on the app. Thumbtack knows homes. Download the app today. Hi. How are you? I'm very tired. I'm sure you're feeling the same. I've just been looking at everything. I can't actually believe it, to be honest with you. Yeah, it was very hard to sleep, to be honest. And it's kind of surreal. It's the middle of a cold December night in 2024.

21:55It's been a few months since I was at the anniversary of Austin's disappearance in Washington, DC. Now, I'm on the phone with Sarah. We've been glued to our screens all night. People don't know what's going to happen yet. I haven't been able to get in contact with Deborah. But I imagine she's going through every motion on the planet right now. Yeah, yeah. It must be so hard for her. All rebel forces have launched an offensive in North Western Syria, taking territory from government forces for the first time in years. This hour, this second biggest city in Syria is now in the hands of rebels for the first time since the war began a decade ago. In Syria, rebel fighters are seizing government strongholds. They're taking city after city. Nobody saw this coming. Not even the country's president. Bashar al-Assad. He's losing his grip on power. Laming another significant gain driving government forces from the city of Hamar.

22:55Rebels taking the city and freeing hundreds of those that they say were wrongfully detained in the central prison. It's the second major city the rebels have seized in their lightning offensive. As the rebels advance, prison doors are being forced open and people are walking free. There's hope that Austin will be one of them. While this is unfolding, Debra Tysbrings her family together in Washington, DC. Austin's six siblings are there, his father Mark, and even his young niece. They stand on a stage looking out to a room full of reporters. Each of them is wearing a green t-shirt with Austin's face printed on it. Then there are the black and white shirts. They're wearing a t-shirt with Austin's face printed on it. Then there are the messages, simple and personal. Free my brother. Free my uncle. Debra's t-shirt says, free my son.

23:56Today is a day full of emotions, the news that we're hearing from the Middle East. Is the kind of thing that can unfettle a mom. I'm so very glad that you're here. I'm so very glad that you're interested. There are all kinds of ways this could go. But the best thing that we want to share with you is that we have from a significant source that has already been vetted all over our government. Austin ties to the live. Austin ties to the treated well. There is no doubt about that. And I would sincerely appreciate your most faithful prayers that we will see Austin walk free. And I just thank you so much. Debra steps away from the podium with tears in her eyes. She says she has new evidence that Austin is alive.

24:56Although she doesn't explain what that evidence is. As Syria descends into chaos, all she can do is wait for information about her son. Then, rebels achieve what many felt was impossible. This is CNN breaking news. Breaking news coming out of Syria, rebels appear to have entered the Capitol. Statues toppling. People jumping on top of them. Assaults of phonemes to clear that his regime is a... The country is now former leader Bashar al-Assad. Believed to have escaped to Russia. President Biden is getting ready to speak any moment now we're told from the White House on the fall of the Bashar al-Assad regime in Syria. We see the President right now. We're going to go to the White House. Along last, the Assad regime has fallen. This regime brutalized and tortured and killed literally hundreds of thousands of innocent Syrians.

25:58We're mindful that they're Americans in Syria, including those who reside there, as well as Austin Tice. It was taken Captain more than 12 years ago. We remain committed to returning him to his family. What do you guys know about where Austin has my DNA to be safe? We believe he's alive. We think we can get him back where we have no direct evidence of that yet. The President of the United States thinks he can bring Austin home. But in the same breath, his seems to suggest there's no proof Austin is alive, contradicting what Tebris told the press. It's hard to know what information about Austin is based on fact and what's based on hope. Whatever the case, the answers are in Syria.

27:02Hello, do you think it's a little bit too much for you, Aaron? I think like another hour. Just 48 hours after the fall of the regime, Syria is in chaos. Airports have been abandoned, so the only way in is by road from neighbouring Lebanon. And that's where I meet up with Sada. How's your Shwala? It's delish. Really? Yeah. It didn't hit the spot for me. That's way till you got to Damascus. Sorry, Lebanon. But it's true. Syria, there's the best show in Lebanon. I feel like you're discounting a lot of places we've worked together. As an Arab. Okay, you're playing that card. Okay, straight away. And then no one's Syrian. No one's Syrian, I am admitting that Syrians make the best show in Lebanon. Welcome. Just enjoy the beautiful traffic. Several hours later, we finally make it to the border of Syria.

28:0813 or 14 years ago, this place started its revolution. Yeah. Look at this on your right. Welcome to Syria. Look. Or look at this telepiter of Assad. See, one side is ripped up. Yeah. It's a checkpoint, I think. Look at Assad. But it's abandoned. And it's got a smashed out window. Wow, there's an old Syrian tank right there. All of the old checkpoints have been smashed out. You notice there are no street lamps. They're not lit throughout the entire highway. As I look out into the darkness from our minivan, the aftermath of fighting is everywhere. A little fear creeps in. This is now a lawless country. There's no government, no police. And we don't know who controls the road we're on.

29:10Then a man steps into the beam of our headlights. He's carrying a gun. Watching some fighters, I guess, such cars in front of me. I hide my microphone and look carefully around the vehicle. Flickers of light catch the edge of rifles. There are several men, some with faces covered, all armed. Every glance from them feels like a calculation. The approach on minivan. As they shine their lights on my face, their gaze softens. What's up? What's up? Hello. Britannia. Britannia. Thank you. The men are parts of the group that is just toppled Syrian President Assad.

30:10It's this crazy. It's essentially not even, I mean, is anyone keeping track of entry into the country? Seamless. I've never entered this country so quickly. I've never entered any country so quickly. No one knows that I'm here. No one's checked my passport. Welcome to the new Syria. But this kind of gave me a little bit of trepidation. Things are still very new. An hour later, we're in Damascus. Here we are, okay. When do you know that hotel? Despite the chaos and the lack of an actual government. Who's that entrance?

31:10Hotels. I'm fully still operating. I unsit my bag and feel for a folder, triple checking. It's still hidden where I left it. So much of my reporting has been about national security and intelligence. And before I came to Damascus, a source of mine with intimate knowledge of Austin's case, reached out. I'd spent months gaining their trust. And now they have something to give me. Something important. I can't say what country this happened in in order to protect their identity. But we met outside a coffee shop. And they handed me a purple folder. Which came with a simple request. Find Austin. Now that we have a moment to catch our breath, I take the folder to Sarah's hotel room.

32:11Hi. Can I come in? Yep. You're going to want to look at this. So, and that was somebody. And here are a list with GPS coordinates. Of every location, the Austin is possibly known to have been held up. Whoa. This is insane. For years, Western intelligence agencies have been identifying sites where Austin might be held. But they couldn't go to them because they were tightly guarded by Syrian forces. Now that the regime is gone, we can search them. If Austin's being held in a Syrian prison, this might be the best chance in more than a decade that anyone has had to find him.

33:19You've been listening to Where Is Austin Tice. Series 3 of I'm Not A Monster Presents. Please share, rate and review the show. It really does help. If you have any information on Austin Tice, you can email me directly on Josh at BBC.co.uk or message me on social media at Josh Baker Story. The series is written and showrun by me, Josh Baker. The investigative producer Isara Obidat. The series producer is Simon Maibin. Field producing by O'Day Al-Hassain. Additional producing by Lucy Burns. Open Source Intelligence by Thomas Bordeaux and Gabor Friesen. Our production coordinator is Gemma Ashman. The series editor is Claire Fordham. The head of BBC News Long Form Audio is Emma Rippen. And at BBC Radio 4, the commissioning editor is Dan Clark.

34:21At MPR, our producer is Monica F. Starchiver. Editors are Robert Little and Katie Simon. And the executive producer for Embedded is Irene Naguchi. The composer is Ferras Abel Faker. Additional music by Karim Shahouri. Thee music by Sam Slater. And it was mixed by Tom Brignal. Thanks for listening. You can hear the latest episodes of Where Is Austin Tice, as soon as they're available. Just search for, I'm not a monster placents. On BBC Sounds, or wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

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