North Carolina is hiring OUTSIDE THE FAMILY: UNC insider on top candidates for Tar Heels’ next coach

On today's A&E and Ari on three presented by Bet MGM, big news in the world of college

basketball.

One of the sports Tiffany jobs is open, Hubert Davis has been fired at North Carolina.

Who is next for the Tar Heels?

They're going to have to hire outside the family for the first time since Dean Smith got

the job in the 1960s.

Greg Barnes from Inside Carolina will join us to break down.

One of the biggest openings in the sport, plus more potential news in college basketball.

The Kansas fan base waiting to find out what will Bill self decide.

Is he coming back?

Is he retiring also in college basketball?

It looked like NC State was going to keep Will Wade, but on Monday night, it heated

up again.

Could Will Wade be headed back to LSU?

We'll talk about all of that today on A&E and Ari on three presented by Bet MGM.

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And we start with your butter burger breaking news.

Your culver's butter burger breaking news.

And that is the North Carolina job is open.

All right, Hubert Davis out after five seasons.

That was the news on Tuesday night.

Obviously, we have now shifted to coaching search mode because this is one of the-

This is for football fans listening.

This is like the Ohio State job opening essentially.

Absolutely.

And I am somewhat amused that Hubert Davis showed up.

Ruined coach K's retirement.

And then that was it.

Yeah.

That was it.

Well, he had one of the good season after that.

But really, it was very inconsistent.

It was not up to their standard, which is the word they kept using.

And now they have to figure out who's next.

And Brad Stevens, by the way, is already taking his name out of the running.

He-

I'm sure in his mind, he was never in the running because he has no intention of leaving his cushy GM job with the Celtics to go coach college basketball again.

But you're going to hear a lot of names here like T.J.

Ozzelberger at Iowa State.

You're going to hear Mark Buyington at Vanderbilt.

You're going to hear a lot of names.

There's a lot of them that everybody's called group chat right now too.

That was kind of floated around there.

Tommy Lloyd at Arizona.

That's some people uncomfortable on the group chat right now.

Yeah.

So basically, every good college basketball coach is going to be viewed as a potential candidate.

Like you had Florida's athletic director Scott Strickland coming out on Tuesday saying, hey, Todd Golden's going to be here a long time.

But they're still working on the numbers on that, I think.

They're going to try to make sure that Todd Golden is paid.

But listen, everybody's going to be able to use this as leverage NATO, it's at Alabama.

All of these names are going to come up.

Billy Donovan.

The Bulls coach.

It's a different situation than Brad Stevens.

Brad Stevens has a great job that I don't see why he would want to leave.

The Bulls don't try to be competitive.

If Billy Donovan ever wanted to go back to college basketball, now might be the time.

And you know, what's about your job?

I covered him for a long time.

My thought was always that he didn't want to come back to the recruiting piece of it.

But the recruiting's changed.

It's really not much different than what he deals within the NBA right now.

I wonder if now is the time that he might consider that.

We'll see what happens.

I think it's still considered a bit of a long shot.

But it's not the same as Brad Stevens who has a great job.

Why would you leave?

Billy Donovan is going to forever be in that play in tournament with the Bulls.

And that's just, I don't know if that's something you want to do every year.

What's the, uh,

ache on what a better job is.

North Carolina or a middle tier NBA job.

Good question.

I mean, I think the middle tier NBA job, if you're, if your ownership refuses to do the things you have to do.

To compete for championships.

Is very frustrating.

And I think the really good college basketball job, you're going to get the power to do it the way you want to.

Yeah, because they want to win worse than you do.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

So that, it's a great question.

And I'm, I'm fascinated to see how this plays out now.

I do think they probably end up hiring a sitting college coach.

There's a lot of good options.

You know, we're going to watch a lot of those guys coach this weekend in the sweet 16.

Because Osalberger Lloyd, Ben McCollum and Iowa.

Those are all guys that are, that are coaching this weekend.

Nate Oates still coaching.

Todd Goldens out.

But all of these names you will see come up.

You're going to see a lot of these guys get very rich extensions to stay where they are.

Just because this job open.

But it is going to be fascinating because North Carolina is going outside the family.

Remember, Dean Smith hands off to Bill Guthridge, his longtime assistant.

Bill Guthridge hands off to former player Matt Dordey.

Matt Dordey gets fired.

They bring in Roy Williams, who was a North Carolina guy, who was a Dean Smith assistant.

Roy Williams, keeping it in the family, hands it off to Hubert Davis, who had no head coaching experience before that.

It's going to break the cycle now.

There is nobody in the family that's ready.

Yeah, I absolutely don't think that in 2026 and beyond that hiring in the family is even a prerequisite for being successful.

I thought there was a debate about whether hiring an alum or a person from your place was smart even in the past.

I mean, related back to football, Scott Frost was the biggest slam dunk in the history of the world.

And then that opened up a conversation when it didn't work at Nebraska about guys who were hired from within or hired with pasts or ties to the university.

Or even people where it was their alma mater.

And it's like there's no data that shows hiring somebody familiar with the place gives them a higher opportunity or a likely chance to succeed than hiring anybody that just really good at the job.

And I think that's probably even more true now that recruiting and, you know,

talent accumulation is so predicated on who's got the best compensation package and what the place is that it is about selling, you know, what it means to be a target.

So, you know, I think that obviously when you're talking about the Ohio State job of college basketball that plays into a part of it, like what UNC is is something that everybody who knows what basketball is understands.

And I think that'll obviously help, but I were a person in charge of any football or basketball job.

My chief goal in hiring would be to go get the most accomplished proven best coach that I could regardless of where they happen to be born or who went to school.

Who can win in this era? Yeah, that's another key is even when they hired Hubert NIL had started, but nobody really knew how it was going to function what it was going to look like.

I think we have a better idea what it looks like now. And so I think you also have a better idea of which coaches are equipped to succeed.

But it's also interesting because we're not that far into it. So there's nobody that's got a proven track record of consistency consistently winning in this era.

Because there's not big enough. There's no, there's not enough years yet to be consistent. So like it is interesting too, because like sometimes I think about this like, you know, what if Mike Norvel got the Alabama job.

And it's like you think about like guys who succeeded in the new era very quickly or very early on, who may actually not be.

And now we look at Mike Norvel, the Florida State football coach as someone who isn't equipped to succeed in new era because he hasn't been able to keep it going.

And that's somebody who won big in this era. And that was three years ago.

Like, I mean, it's like things change so dramatically. But I am always on high alert of who gets hired after one successful season or one lightning strike season.

And then actually isn't the right candidate. And I think that, you know, North Carolina is going to have to sift through some of that. Why was that person successful in the time that they were.

Is it something they can duplicate? Is it something they can maintain long term.

And I think that that's a little bit more intense than having a system that's been in place for 20 years and watching everybody exist in it for a long period of time.

That said, Andy, I think winning in basketball in the NIL era is probably a little bit more simple than football, because the roster sizes are so much smaller.

And it's all about, you know, maybe having one or two dynamic players and finding prey. Nobody gets hurt.

Yeah.

You know, I think football is a lot more complicated because you have so many different types of positions and so many things that can happen.

Like, you know, the quarterbacks important as much like a point guard is, but if the center gets hurt and football, you're screwed.

So like, it's just, it's, it's a completely different ball game.

And I think that's part of the reason why we've seen so many coaches in college basketball who are participating in the sweet 16 or in the tournament this year, who had been successful in the past era continue and maintain that success into the new era.

So maybe it's not as drastic as it would be for football, but I still think it'll be interesting to see what North Carolina does here.

Now, let's get some more insight on this. Let's talk to somebody who knows North Carolina inside and out Greg Barnes from inside Carolina has done a great job this entire week covering this story explaining exactly what was going on.

He's the one who told everybody, hey, it's not happening immediately after they lost in the sweet in the round of 64 and then explain why everything was going so slowly.

Now, hopefully he can help us figure out who the next coaches and how the decision makers in North Carolina are going to arrive at that person. Here is Greg Barnes from inside Carolina.

We are joined by Greg Barnes of inside Carolina now and Greg has been a very, very busy man this week.

First of all, Greg trying to explain the process behind the timing of the Hubert Davis firing because that game happened late last week.

The firing didn't actually happen until Tuesday night or at least the announcement didn't come until Tuesday night.

And you were on top of the entire way trying to say slow down, slow down. Here's what's happening. So why did it take so long for them to reach that conclusion?

In actuality, Andy, I was a little surprised that came as early as it did. I was thinking this is probably going to be a Wednesday or Thursday type deal.

Yeah, so Friday afternoon they had a big meeting with a lot of the boosters and just decided that it was time to move forward.

And the part of that was there was not the the fundraising that was going to be available for the 26 27 roster.

Yeah, they spent 14 million on this current roster and they were probably going to need a little bit more than that.

And the funds just were not there. There was not enough support for Hubert Davis.

So they kind of knew at that point in time they needed to make a change. And then it was just a process of letting things play out.

North Carolina had its team meeting, interview team meeting on Saturday. So they wanted to make sure Hubert Davis could handle that with the team.

And then you've got your women's basketball had NCAA tournament. They hosted on site in Chapel Hill this weekend. That played a part of it.

And just some other conversations that took place. And it was just a lengthy process in trying to help Hubert Davis kind of get to the place of its time to step down.

And ultimately, Hubert Davis did not want to step down. So North Carolina had to fire him.

But one of the reasons it actually kind of sped up there at the end is that there's been this you as it linger on throughout the weekend.

There was this organized push really to keep Hubert Davis a lot of the Carol on the family types.

And because they're shorted to be a little bit of a groundswell of support, they thought it was necessary to go ahead and finish the deal up.

Andy and I reacted to this game or the VCU game directly effort happened or the morning effort happened.

And we talked a lot about the news conference and Hubert being directly asked what went wrong. And, you know, you know the answer to that. How long after that game, did you kind of see the writing on the wall?

Good question. I started getting texts very quickly after that game. And it kind of really just encapsulated what the Hubert Davis era has been.

And really just the last two years of the team looks really good for a stretch of the game.

And they have just not been able to put together a full 40 minutes.

And so we thought that he was going to be okay entering the postseason. You're given the injury to Caleb Wilson.

But there was still that condition of well they at least need to look good in the postseason for us to feel good about giving him another year.

And then the VCU game plays out in the worst way possible.

And so very quickly it was like, okay, there's not going to be enough support from the big boosters to provide enough funds to make this worthwhile moving forward.

And even if you're bringing back, there would be so much heat on that seat that would really be a dire situation for everybody around the program.

You know, it is interesting, Andy, because like boosters have always had say's and programs, right?

Like, you know, they're always influential, their donations, their money, their, their influence mattered.

But I think now that there is a direct correlation between donations and roster assembly and, you know, roster compensation that they might have more sway than they've ever had before. Do you, do you feel that way, Greg?

I do for sure. And I think the other part of this too is the money is a key point.

But part of that is because Hubert Davis has never had much interest in handling the fundraising aspect of things.

That's just never been something that he's comfortable with or that he's enjoyed doing.

And we've heard a lot of concerns about that behind the scenes for years.

It's not a new thing. And, you know, he kind of raised the fuss a couple years ago, because he wasn't able to get up a center that he wanted.

And the response that we got from some donors is like, well, we didn't know. Like he's got to communicate that to us.

And I think that kind of speaks to some of the issues. And then the other part of it, which I think shouldn't be overlooked, is that Carolina really has a high standard.

They were a sick seed this year. That's the second highest seed that Carolina has had since 2019.

So the standard wasn't being reached either. So it's the combination of the results on the court and the lack of fundraising skills.

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As we get into the search itself, because it's fascinating, because North Carolina has stayed in the family.

Basically since Dean Smith succeeded Frank McGuire in 1961.

And you went Bill Guthreridge, Matt Dorety, Roy Williams of course, and then Hubert was Roy's hand pick successor.

They're going to have to go outside the family this time. But before we get into candidates, I want you to explain the AD situation.

Because Bubba Cunningham has been the AD, but he's on his way out.

And Steve Newmark from NASCAR is in place, essentially already.

And it sounds like he's, he's got to be the one driving the bus on this one, right?

Yes. And that's added to some of the, the challenge.

I mean, they've got the arena situation.

You've got the Bill Belichick mass is going on.

You've got the AD transition.

Because Lee Roberts, the chancellor last summer, you went ahead and made the decision.

Okay, this is going to be Bubba Cunningham's last year.

This upcoming summer is when he's going to transition into a advisory role.

And then Steve Newmark is going to spend this year kind of learning the business.

Because as you mentioned, he hasn't been in NASCAR.

And he has done that.

And so that was part of the challenge here of kind of managing that transition.

And certainly Steve Newmark understands revenue generation.

He understands what it's going to take to thrive in this current landscape.

And that's been beneficial.

And I think that's going to be beneficial for the program and athletic department moving forward.

But that certainly adds some elements to this of Bubba Cunningham, as we've been told.

For the old model of college athletics, he's as good as they get.

But now that you have NIL, you have revshare and money, such a big part of it.

You kind of have to think a different way.

And that's what Steve Newmark brings to the equation.

And that's been a big focal point both with the arena discussion as well as this coaching transition.

Andy, and I had a conversation last week about big East basketball jobs.

And how they might actually be much more attractive than they've ever been because they don't have football programs to worry about funding.

And I'm wondering, how much do you think Carolinas investment slash distractions, last bill, Bella check, Mania?

Do you think has an impact on the basketball program?

And do you think that Carolina can be good at both?

Yeah, so there's a lot we can dive into there.

One thing I will say is you're exactly right that schools that don't have that that football component in theory can spend a lot more on basketball.

But I really think that's driven by big donors.

And I'm curious to see how that plays out.

Everybody knows St. John's has a billion dollar donor that's helping.

I just think it's going to be difficult for a lot of those schools to be able to raise enough to utilize that full revshare total.

But North Carolina is a little bit of a unique situation because the revshare allotment right now for basketball is $7 million.

And the big 10 and the SEC, for example, are not giving that much in revshare to their basketball programs.

The majority of that revshare goes to football.

And so Carolina has a little bit of an edge there.

But the bill, Bella check component, I really think the benefit of that while that whole situation has kind of been a mess.

I really ignited the booster base and understanding that if Carolina wants to be a player nationally in this modern era, in both basketball and football, they're going to have to spend money.

You got to spend money to make money.

And Hubert Davis, his contract was for about $3 million.

That is not going to cut it.

And so as you move out of the family, you're going to have to at least go double that.

And if you're talking about your guys like Tommy Lloyd or Dusty May or Billy Donovan, you may have to go three times that.

And I think there's an understanding that that's going to happen, that they're willing to do that, knowing that there's buyouts involved and there's such things as well.

Do you think the Bella check hire provided a foundation to understand that hey, we've got to do a better job of being more financially committed in this process.

Alright, so let's talk about who Carolina might hire because again, they've got to go outside the family.

They're names not all over the place.

So you mentioned Dusty May at Michigan, you mentioned Tommy Lloyd, you mentioned Billy Donovan with the bulls with Ari and I talked about a lot of these guys earlier in the show.

If you if you could narrow it down to three or four that you think Carolina should go after that would be very receptive to taking the job, who would you think?

Well, everybody is going to throw out Brad Stevens, right, because he's got a son who's got two years left college ball.

There's the idea that maybe he he's interested in getting back into the college game partly because of that.

I don't think anybody thinks that's going to happen, but you at least have to make the phone call.

So I think that's that's near the top of this and then from there you have to look at who's had success at the college level and who fits the Carolina personality.

There are some head coaches that may be described as a little bit arrogant and having sharp edges and and cussing freely.

I don't know how well that's going to play in Chapel Hill and that's that's a key part of it.

Would that be a certain guy in Ames Iowa possibly.

So I do think I do think when you talk about play you coaches like a dusty May, you talk about Tommy Lloyd at Arizona.

And I do think arts is a unique example of somebody who's really shown the ability to do more with less and that's very attractive given his age.

So I think those three individuals are probably at the top of the list, but there's a lot of options on the table.

And I think Carolinas doing they've got a lot of people working on this, making phone calls and those types of things to see what the true options are as they start moving past the Hubert Davis era.

So as you may or may not know, I went to Arizona.

And Tommy Lloyd's name has been circling around and I'm in a group chat with friends that I went to college with who are much more interested in Arizona basketball that I am, but they're my best friends and I read them.

And somebody was like, I don't think that Tommy Lloyd would want to go to North Carolina. He's a West Coast guy and I'm like, you realize that like North Carolina is like the most iconic job in the entire sport.

And he responds, I think saying UNC is the epitome of college basketball is taking too much stake into its history and not enough about right now.

The ACC cannot hold a candle to the big 12 and hoops right now outside of Duke, your thoughts.

It's bold.

I will say this. There's a lot of components in play. And so as North Carolina makes this decision, it's not necessarily about right now.

It's about where's the program going to be five years from now, 10 years from now. And that's just not in Chapel Hill. That's are they still in the ACC, which I would be surprised in five to 10 years of Carolina still in the ACC.

That's a component because you're talking about your Carolina may be going to the SEC or the big 10 or wherever it may be.

That changes a lot of the money dynamics. And then the point about kind of the level where Carolina wants to be.

I think a great benefit in this process for Carolina is what Duke's doing because Carolina does not want to play second fiddle to Duke.

Duke has done a fantastic job in handling the new era and Shire's done a great job.

And so I think that's a motivational tool for Carolina just down the street.

And Carolina wants to get back to that standard of being year in and year out a top five team that can contend for national championships. That's the ultimate goal.

So what I'm interested because it's I think I'm my brain is locking up because the family ran Carolina for so long.

And I'm just assuming that they're going to look for somebody who would adopt a Roy Williams style recruiting philosophy.

But here you can talk about John Shire Duke and I find it interesting because Duke has been getting this top end high in a lottery picks every year kind of kind of recruiting that continued from coach K through John Shire.

That's not really what's been going on at North Carolina by design, not because they couldn't but because that was Roy's choice and then it sort of carried over.

Caleb Wilson, what if he's a top five pick will be the first top five pick what's it's 2005.

And North Carolina. So is it possible that the next coach embraces a little bit different recruiting philosophy.

I think so and what they all want to add here is if you go back to when Roy turned the job down the first time back in 2000.

One of the coaches that Dean Smith said that he'd wanted after the fact was Rick Majeris.

I was not a Carolina guy whatsoever.

Good offense.

Right. So that's.

Yes, there's that Carolina component, but I don't think it's as glued in as some people like to make it to be including within the Carolina family.

And I think a lot of frustration was kind of around the Hubert Davis higher back in 2021 because they they saw it as a continuation of what Roy did.

And to your point, Roy was never about the one in Dunara.

He never liked to deal with handlers and those types of people around players.

And that kind of limited what he could do on the recruiting trail.

And that was the first NCAA investigation played a role in that as well.

And there was concern that when Hubert came in, he would just kind of continue on with what Roy did.

And that didn't fit where the college basketball landscape was.

And we've kind of see that play out.

I mean, Hubert was not really receptive to having a general manager until it was somewhat forced upon him last year with Jim Tanner.

And that speaks to that that slow willingness to adapt.

And I do think North Carolina understands that.

And they want to make sure with this next higher that they embrace the current landscape.

They accept it for what it is.

And they get North Carolina back up to a level where it can be somewhat transactional.

I mean, either Davis two years ago at media days and this is not a transactional program.

And then ended up paying six months later, $14 million for roster.

So there's some disconnect there that they have to make sure they address with this next higher.

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Yes.

And he and I were talking before about how we need to find.

We need to find.

Coaches in the new era that can excel in the new era.

But the new era hasn't really been that long.

I mean, it went two or three years now.

What do you think Carolina has to do in this search?

What are the qualities, the traits, the aspects of what a new coach would bring to the table that they should be looking for in their replacement?

What adaptability is kind of the key thing because it is ever changing.

And even though we got the house settlement through what nine months ago.

There's still been a lot of changes since then and then we'll continue to be changes.

So I think that's the primary aspect.

I mean, I mean, kind of in our business, right?

I mean, if you go back 25 years, if you were just a good writer, then that was enough.

That's no longer the case.

You've got to be able to handle the multi media part of it like what we're doing now.

And I think the same thing holds true with coaches.

I mean, everybody thought he were Davis when he came to Carolina because of his history at ESPN.

That he would be great with the media.

That he could be good with boosters.

And that he would translate to good recruiting.

And him as like this spokesperson for college basketball.

It didn't play out that way.

He wasn't interested in the fundraising.

He wasn't really good at all with the media.

And it was problematic.

So I think having an understanding of those components and using it to your advantage.

And understanding that kids care about brand value.

That's very important, especially for the top in kids.

And being willing to have that bridge mindset between high school to college to the NBA.

Calipari, he got banged on for a long time for doing them.

And then Coach K followed him.

And now here we are.

So that is the approach.

And I think having people in place to understand that.

And are willing to change on a dime because that's required.

I think that's kind of a key thing they're looking for.

Well, I am fascinated to see who they pick because this is one of the best jobs in the country.

They're going to have their choice.

And you're going to be really busy trying to figure out what it is.

So great.

Thank you so much for giving us some time today and a really busy day.

But we don't have a lot of Hudson questions before we get out of here.

I got no joy.

We're going to bring Greg back after they hire a basketball coach.

He's got a warrant.

All right.

All the Jordan Hudson question.

All the Billy Edwards junior questions.

All the Bobby Patrino question.

Don't worry Greg.

We'll see you again soon.

I look forward to it.

Thanks guys.

Thanks Greg.

Greg.

Appreciate you being here.

Sure thing.

That is Greg Barnes from inside Carolina.

Great insight from a guy who's covered the team for two decades.

And now.

We move on to mega board Wednesday where there are.

There's more going on in the world of college basketball.

The coaching carousel feels like it could get real hot real fast.

But.

If your team's still in it.

If you think your team might make.

Make it to anyapolis all the way.

Then start making plans to come see us at the Culver's Game Day Hub live in

Minneapolis on April 4th.

That's the day of the semi finals.

That's that Saturday.

We're going to be there.

If you remember last year with Culver's at the draft.

It was so much fun.

Frozen custard all around.

Butterburgers.

You name it.

We'll be back with Culver's.

On April 4th in Indianapolis.

And if you can't make it to Indy.

Make sure you enter the Culver's swish swish dish sweepstakes.

For a chance to win up to 2500 bucks.

But again, if you can get to Indy.

If you live in Indy or if your team.

Makes it there.

If your team earns this way through this this weekend.

And makes it to Indy.

Come see us at the Culver's Game Day Hub live in Indianapolis on April 4th.

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All right, it is mega board Wednesday.

And the boards are popping.

On Monday night, the boards really started all most melting because.

Stuff's happening everywhere.

Let us start in Kansas.

J. Hawksland.

The boards there are.

Understandably.

Trying to figure out what happens next with Bill.

Self because Bill.

Self said after Kansas lost the St. John's.

He's going to take some time to figure out what he wants to do.

It is unclear what that is right now.

Bill.

Self has had some health issues.

And he's only 63 and we've talked about how.

There are a lot of guys in their 70s who are coaching really well in college basketball right now.

Bill.

Obviously, there's some extenuating circumstances.

That are causing him to sit to take a step back and look at whether he wants to continue.

As Kansas coach, we don't know the answer to it right now.

There's some folks on the J. Hawksland boards.

That are a little worried.

That it might already be done.

There's a thread on there.

Sounds like a done deal.

And all more of a tribute thread.

Love you coach.

And then just sad songs.

They're posting the YouTube videos of sad songs brick by Ben Foltz.

I was really sad.

Don't don't don't don't Google what that's about.

He stopped loving her today by George Jones.

I will remember you by Sarah McLaughlin.

Yesterday by the Beatles.

That is that is the mood in Lawrence right now.

Now the other extenuating.

Before you go into it is that he did such a masterful job navigating a really bad situation.

Yes.

You still has it.

That's the.

Yes.

He's 63.

If he keeps coaching, I think he's probably got another national title in him.

Or at least another final for run in him.

Yeah.

He handled that Darren Pearson situation as well as anybody could have.

Because that could have blown up.

The whole team could have imploded in the middle of big 12 play with Darren Peterson taking himself out of games.

And all the people there in Peterson's life too.

By the way.

Yes.

If we'll self had been a little more selfish.

Or just fed up with it and let that show.

It could have really messed with Peterson's draft stock.

He threaded that needle as well as you could.

And.

Look, they got knocked out in the round of 32 by a Hall of Fame coach.

With a great team that won a good league.

I don't.

I don't think you have any quibble with how this season went.

I know Kansas expects more than than the round of 32.

But the circumstances are.

Yeah.

That stuff happens.

If Bill self can keep coaching.

I'm convinced.

He gets way into the end of the elevator tournament again.

Potentially another national title.

But again, that's his decision because he's had some health issues that have kept him from from coaching in some games over the past few years.

And.

I just hope he does whatever the best thing is for him.

Yeah.

I mean, obviously when you're dealing with things that aren't just do I want to work anymore.

You know, you have to leave it to that person to come up with what they think is the best.

And a lot of times I think, you know, people if they do retire early might.

You know, I have a change of heart and three or four years and end up somewhere else, which would probably be the biggest Kansas nightmare.

But, you know, I thought that the title of the thread Andy was kind of interesting because.

We dealt a lot of this with football.

And if he is in fact retiring.

Yeah, this is this is another thread on on the J. Hawksland boards.

Yeah.

Well, Hubert Davis is firing effect bill self in Kansas because.

If I'm the Kansas administration.

It's a tricky spot because obviously you appreciate everything bill self has done.

I want him to stay.

But you also probably need a decision.

Yeah.

Now that North Carolina is open because I saw some people online debating what the football parallel of this would be.

And the one I saw that I thought looked the most accurate is if North Carolina cans is open in basketball.

It's really similar Ohio State and Georgia opening in football.

At the same time.

No, it's not the same stature of team.

But like we literally just fought through like.

Second tier SEC teams being afraid of being late to the party win.

Right.

Because LSU and Penn State opened.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So like LSU.

Like do we think LSU fired Ryan Kelly when they did because Penn State fired James Franklin when they did.

I think that LSU was a superior job to Penn State.

Regardless of when it opens.

I don't know if they had that much calculation.

But I do think it was interesting to watch like Florida Auburn deal with their coaches as they were trying to get in.

Like they were racing for summer all too, weren't they?

So like.

You know, I do think that timing is a thing.

But like as the thread points out.

I'm no basketball history buff.

But if Bill self was picked second, I'd love to know or remember you probably do at the top of your head because you're in cyclopedia who was first in that cycle.

And it's like I don't always think that the first person who was who was hired in a cycle or the top choice in the cycle always necessarily means you got the best guy.

And I'm very curious.

And we might not know this for five, six years.

But of the Alex Goulish John Summer all Lane Kiffin hiring SEC circle.

In five years who we view as a top five coach in America, who are the other two are.

You know, and it might not be Lane Kiffin.

It might be.

But I just don't think that being first of the party is ever.

You know, like the here's the question too.

It's like if you're Kansas.

Do you try to speed up a decision because you're anxious about being second in line or second to the hiring station.

Which then gives you a 10% less chance of potentially holding on to your Hall of Fame coach.

It's like who knows like what the decision making process for Bill self looks like behind the scenes.

So I don't know that I would like lose a bunch of sleep over being second in the cycle.

What I would do is hope that Bill self returns or if that if that's already too late and he's done.

Yeah.

You know, hiring the right coach for your program and it might not necessarily be the person that North Carolina wants.

Well, it would be kind of poetic because these jobs are inextricably linked.

Dean Smith played for fog, Alan at Kansas.

He then goes to North Carolina.

He was a North Carolina assistant.

He was a 30 year old North Carolina assistant when he got the job.

Roy Williams was coaching Kansas and coaching Kansas really well when Mama called.

Now it was the second time North Carolina tried to get him from Kansas because that happened when they when they hired Matt Dordy as well.

But so Bill self replaced Roy Williams at Kansas.

I'm trying to see who trying to think who it would have been.

Who was the first choice.

I can't even it was 2003.

I can't remember back that far.

You know, because obviously Roy leaving open the job.

And Bill self was coaching at Illinois at the time and was doing a good job there.

So that was.

Scott Drew was hired at Baylor that year, but he was not viewed as that level of coach at that point.

So I don't know.

It's a it's a strange situation because now I mean, you look at what Bill self did there where he was winning the big 12 every year.

And obviously the big 12 got much harder in these these last two rounds of alignment.

But he basically won the big 12 regular season title almost every year until the last few years.

And was ridiculously consistent.

Roy Williams was hired in 2003, but he left.

Jamie.

That's what I just got through saying.

I know.

I know.

I'm working through it.

You mentioned what about Jamie Dixon?

Would that have been it?

Yeah, going to pit now.

I don't think so.

Well, there's no other coach that I'm seeing here that would have gone to a place instead of Kansas, but.

But yeah, it's.

It's a tough spot.

But here's the thing.

Like all those names that we mentioned in connection with the North Carolina job.

We're sitting coaches.

The T.J.

Otzelberger, Tommy Lloyd.

Nate Oates.

Todd Golden.

Ben McCollum.

Like all of these guys.

Would probably consider the Kansas job now.

They probably consider it the same way they consider the North Carolina job.

And so I think the windows wide open.

And if Bill self does decide this is it, Kansas has lots of good options.

Even even North Carolina is open, there's more than two good coaches out there.

You can find a really good one in this circumstance.

So in so many times this gets lost.

The program makes a coach sometimes too.

Let's not forget.

Yeah.

Like if you're Kansas and you get to wear the J. Hux logo on your chest and you are given the resources.

A lot of times you will become a great coach as a result of what you have around you.

So it's not always what and I know that the person is important.

I'm not trying to diminish that.

But how many coaches in college football.

And college basketball landed in good situations.

Like.

Is Dan landing the greatest coach ever?

Is Ryan Day the greatest coach ever?

Or are they good coaches that landed in the really good spot?

Like I just I don't know.

And we'll never know like what Dan landing would do if he got hired at Kansas State.

Maybe he would be great.

But it's better than you know we give him credit for.

But I think that the place also really carries a lot of the weight in terms of what you get out of your program.

Yeah.

I.

I hope bill self isn't done.

I hope he keeps coaching.

But we don't know the answer to that yet.

So we'll have to we'll keep our eyes on that one.

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We're cheering together.

This winter, we're all on the same team.

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Got another situation brewing.

Over in North Carolina.

Well, I know Louisiana.

That we got we got two of our message boards going crazy.

All through Monday night into Tuesday morning.

Sorry, all through Tuesday night into Wednesday morning.

And it's just it keeps going.

So we.

We'll talk in C state and LSU next.

Are you developing situation Tuesday night?

Like when I wake up to a text from Pete Nicos.

I know something's up.

And there was a there was a Pete Nicos text asking if I had a certain person's cell phone number.

That was sent at at 530 Pete Nicos time a.m.

So.

There's stuff going on.

And so I went to the boards.

At NC State and an LSU.

So I went to the Wolf Packer, which is on three NC State site.

I went to the Bingle Tiger, which is on three LSU site.

And.

Stuff that had died.

Threads that had gone slightly dormant.

Had come back to life.

So at the Bingle Tiger, we had will aid Monday.

From this past Monday.

With Verge Osbury the AD saying I will not fail you.

Now.

Not much happened on Monday.

But Tuesday it all picked up Tuesday night, middle of the night into Wednesday morning is where it picked up.

And.

So now we have.

From the Wolf Packer, the thread called Wade rumors.

And that one started last week.

NC State goes out in the first four.

We'll wait talking about how, you know, how he was mad at the way he constructed the roster for this season at NC State.

He said, I think this is the worst team we'll ever have here.

It might be the only team he ever has there because.

The smoke is rising about a potential return to LSU for will wait.

Now, are you what complicates this is Matt McMahon is LSU's coach and has not been fired.

As we record this at 11 a.m. on Wednesday.

Matt McMahon still has his job and will wait is still NC State's coach.

But it sounds like that could change in the next hours and days.

LSU just hasn't gotten enough of the of the freak show, you know, they want to do it again.

They okay, so the fan base loved will wait.

They loved will wait when he was there.

They fired him.

Remember Scott Woodward was the athletic director.

He was the one who fired him.

And he waited until the NCAA stuff came out so that he could fire him with cause.

And so like will wait, almost seem to be past the stuff.

Remember, he got caught on a wiretap in that FBI investigation college basketball.

And he was talking about a strong ass offer.

Well, guess what?

Strong ass offer is what you got to do to win these days.

And LSU is not good at basketball these days.

That's what's going on.

Obviously the NC State fans royally pissed if he's really considering this because they feel like they got a pretty good job too.

So this is crazy.

This would make the LSU fan base deliriously happy.

Now, the one thing I will point out that I know the NC State fans know.

The guy who was president at McNeese State when will wait was there the last few years before he went to NC State.

Now the president LSU.

Question because I don't know.

Pantheon of jobs NC State in the research triangle and LSU in the SEC.

Where do we stand on this?

Because I don't know like what's a better job.

I don't I I think they're pretty parallel.

I think the right coach at NC State can win pretty big.

I think the right coach at LSU.

I mean, John Brady took them to final fours.

Yeah.

Is life either one is considered the top job in the conference or anywhere near the top job in its conference.

Is life in the NC State more difficult because you're directly in the shadows of two of the powers of the sport?

I think that's difficult, but I also think you have a fan base that cares more about basketball.

I mean, in LSU.

Yes, the fans are excited that will wait might come back, but you know what they're more excited about main Kiffin.

Jordan seat and lost 23 pounds looks amazing.

Yeah.

That's the right way.

You lost 23 pounds.

Yeah, he already looked pretty good.

Now he looks amazing.

So that was not a chubby tackle.

That guy was always fit.

So he must be a machine now.

But yeah, I agree with you.

I'm just curious like to.

Obviously the people who are involved in his dismissal are no longer there.

So well, but that's that's the other part of it.

If we'll wait and never coach to LSU before I don't even think this is happening.

This is not.

This is not an issue.

Yeah.

We'll wait coach to LSU.

He liked coaching LSU.

He was successful coaching at LSU.

And they liked him there.

And I think that's.

That's why this is happening now, rather than.

You know, if we'll wait had gone from McNeese to to NC State and the LSU part of his career had never happened or he'd been.

You know, some other SEC school before.

Like what are we talking about this conversation?

Yeah.

It's just I always curious to have like do you harbor feelings towards a place if things went the way wrong the way that you did.

But at the same time, he also was cheating at the time.

So.

Whether or not we find that to be important anymore, I think is irrelevant.

I know.

I wanted to be.

He was doing exactly what you got to do to win now.

So.

If you were doing something that was against the rules at some point and we're doing it well.

And now everyone's doing it.

Didn't your advantage get taken away?

Like I feel like that's.

I think he's probably still good at making strong ass offers though.

Yeah.

I mean, all you have to do is make a strong ass offer.

But it's a kind of like if you're going 50.

And a 30.

And everybody else is going 30.

And then the speed limit becomes 60.

And then everyone's driving 60.

Then your advantage from when you were driving 50 doesn't exist anymore.

Like I think the way can can exist in this era too.

Yeah.

I mean, he wanted game in the NCAA tournament with McNeese.

Now, it didn't go as well as he wanted to this year at NC State.

But.

The years he was at LSU.

And it's not just because.

He was it.

Well.

You're assuming he was doing something nobody else was doing.

He was doing what everybody was doing.

Yes.

So.

Not everybody.

Most people.

Most people.

Most people he was recruiting against and playing against.

So five seasons of LSU.

He makes the NCAA tournament three of those would have made it four.

But the 2021 got canceled because of COVID.

That is a lot of success for LSU.

That's really good for LSU.

Yeah.

So.

That's why they love him so much.

And the truth kind of he kind of fits their ethos.

Like he.

He's.

He makes very straight like the wrestling people would say he can cut a promo.

Like he's on the mic.

Very similar to Lane Kiffin.

Yeah.

LSU with both of them and what a wild wild wild.

Boone for business would be for the message boards down there.

Yeah.

I will be very curious to see how this plays out.

And I think that the NC State people are rightfully upset and angry.

Nervous.

Because you feel like you might be on the verge of actually because I mean,

winning at McNeese also proves that he's a good coach.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

So like.

I saw how excited they were when they got him and it would be a rough go that

if they were to lose him now.

So we'll see how it plays out.

But it's.

And the thing is like.

Will Wade excited the NC State people right off the bat.

Like he.

He's talking about the the transfer from North Carolina to ban Allen Luben.

And calling.

Basically calling Hubert Davis dumb for not playing him.

And.

Like that.

That got everybody excited right off the bat.

He's going to say stuff like that.

He's going to do stuff like that.

And.

If he goes to LSU.

We already know he's going to do stuff like that because he's done it before there.

But yeah.

The NC State people will be furious and understandably so if he leaves.

Now, that's still a good job.

It would suck for them if they had to search for a coach the same time that North Carolina does.

We'll see if the Kansas job opens.

But.

Now, I don't think North Carolina and NC State are necessarily fishing from the same pond.

In terms of job opening.

So I don't think that's really going to make that huge of a difference in who NC State would hire.

With North Carolina open.

But.

Obviously those guys are going to be compared side by side because they're going to come in in the same year.

If this indeed happens.

And at this point, it may be so far down the road that the will wait thing.

Kind of has to happen.

Because if he's like, not never mind.

I've stayed in NC State.

By the way.

His newest follows on Twitter as of Wednesday morning.

Oh boy.

Yeah.

Cody Worsham in the LSU athletic department.

Shade Dixon.

Our guy at the bangle tiger dot com.

That must go in our friend who does radio and baton Rouge.

Like it is.

Interesting.

That's where he's going.

Either he's trolling or that's where he's going.

And.

Or maybe he just likes to hear about himself.

Maybe.

But man, you can't really go back at that point.

I think the NC State people are not.

Not happy about any of this.

You could have squelched this a long time ago.

But.

It kept it kept popping back up.

Like if you look at these message boards, threats, especially the one on the wolf packer.

This is dates back to Thursday.

Last week.

Yeah.

And then the rumors died down.

And it's like, okay.

No, he's staying.

Here are the actions he's taking that that suggests he's staying.

And now.

You're back here.

On Wednesday morning.

The transfer portal opens April.

Do you have any football thing?

Like, what does this remind you of in football?

Well, so.

Not from the NC State side as much.

But from the LSU side, it reminds me of a couple ones.

It reminds me of when Texas fired Tom Herman.

And four minutes later hired Steve Sarkeesian.

And it reminds me of when Miami fired Mani Diaz because Mario Cristobal was willing to come.

Because Matt McMan.

As we record this.

Yeah.

Still employed by LSU.

And how does he feel about all this?

You know, I'm sure he feels terrible about it.

Yeah.

It's wild.

Like that's the worst spot.

Like.

Mani Diaz.

I always thought that.

That was the worst way.

To get fired.

And you know, before Mario took Miami to the national title game.

Mani's career at Miami and Mars were fairly comparable.

So now, if you're Miami, you say, okay, here's why we did this.

But Mani's also the coach of the defending ACC champion.

So let's not forget that.

But.

If you're, if you're Matt McMan, you, this sucks because.

Why didn't they just fire you when the season ended when they fire you before the season ended?

It wasn't like LSU was good this year.

Yeah.

And they were going to get rid of me.

Well, just get rid of me.

Just pay me my bio.

Let me go.

Well.

When something comes out of nowhere and is interested.

That changes.

If it didn't come out of nowhere, LSU was bad.

People knew that Will Wade was good at LSU.

And then his president for McNeese State was at LSU now.

Like.

This has been going on.

It's very.

That's something in theory that didn't occur until recently, too.

I listen.

There was always a little bit of burning desire in Baton Rouge to get Will Wade back.

And the circumstances now have aligned so that they can't.

But they've been aligned in that way for a few months.

So.

It.

It was headed this way.

And I was a little surprised late last week when it seemed to die down.

This was less surprising that this happened.

So.

We'll watch that one.

By the time a show drops circumstances might change.

So we have to fly in a little update.

But that's what we need on a megabord Wednesday, Ari.

That's the kind of action that's action towards frothy juice.

Yeah.

All right.

One more thing before we go because I've been working on a project.

And it's about to come to fruition on Saturday.

So I have been learning to dance.

And I don't mean like taking taking ballroom classes with the wife.

So I got called up.

I got called in from the bullpen essentially to be in a dancing with the stars competition.

A local dancing with the stars competition in Gainesville.

My daughter's ballet school is attached to a professional ballet company.

They've been operating out of the same studio since the 60s.

They are trying to build a new studio.

They're trying to raise money to build a new studio.

So they had somebody lined up for this thing.

And they had to drop out with about a month and a half to go before the deal.

Everybody else has been training for this thing since November.

And so I got into a fox trot with an incredible professional dancer named Bia,

who is very, very patient, maybe the most patient person in the world.

And we're trying to raise money for the studio.

And I want to thank, because I put some stuff out on social media, Ari,

I want to thank Steve from San Antonio and Laurie,

two of our best question askers, because they've donated money to my daughter,

studio.

And I just, I can't thank you enough for your help.

And so anybody else, if you got a couple bucks, just lying around.

And you enjoy laughing at me dancing, because you're getting to watch it.

You go to my Twitter, you'll find the link.

You go to my Instagram, you'll find the link.

And yeah, please, every little bit helps.

But Ari, what do we think?

We're watching, watching rehearsals from last night.

How are we feeling about this?

Here's what I think.

You want my honest opinion?

I do.

I think that you're incredibly good shape.

And you're an athlete.

So that means you can move on.

You lift weights and you work out and you run long distances.

Loosen up a little bit.

You seem a little tight.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's what my offensive linecoaches all said, too.

Okay.

I think that's how I'm strong.

I think if I were a little more loose, I'd have been a better athlete.

You're doing great, pal.

I'm just giving you.

I'm just giving you.

Now, well, voice that I brought in somebody who knows more than you.

Okay.

And who's nicer than you.

Our friend Laura Rutledge for me, S.B.N.

So before you saw her on Monday night football,

she actually contemplated being a professional ballet dancer.

When she was leading high school, she had an offer to join a ballet company in China,

to dance professionally, and was about to take it.

And then kind of at the last minute decided, you know what?

I want to go to college instead.

And so she takes a scholarship to the University of Florida.

And basically work for, you know, the sites,

she worked for a bunch of different team sites she covered recruiting.

She was the hardest working student reporter I've ever met.

And so you knew she was going to be successful no matter what.

But what I didn't realize, because Laura was also Miss Florida at the time.

And so she kept dancing to get her, keep her talent sharp for the pageant circuit,

but also just because she loved dancing.

So she danced at this dance company that my daughter belongs to.

Oh.

And she was, you know, she was doing the same nutcracker productions that my daughter did,

you know, where they travel around to do the productions.

And so I brought Lauren to critique my lifts.

And I got to say, I was surprised because this is, you know,

this is like, what does a football person now?

Like Laura just does football now.

This is a great film breakdown for me.

Partnering in dance is really difficult.

And there's a lot more to that than just lifting a person.

It's all about weight balance.

I think you have a really strong base.

I'm noticing even when you're pulling the lift off,

you're doing like a little hop, then you're doing your own lunge there.

I mean, that's difficult.

There's a lot going on.

And look at the side angle of this.

This is a typical lift.

A lot of times we call it a fish lift, but you're getting down low.

Then you're pulling her back up.

I mean, that is no easy task.

I'm really impressed by what you're doing.

I would say for you, my biggest feedback, like especially when it comes to wowing the crowd,

raising some money, you're going to have a wow factor no matter what.

People are going to be really excited, captive audience.

But you know, stand proud.

Like show them who you are.

Here's the reality.

Standing out there on that stage is not an easy thing to do.

And learning any of this is extremely difficult.

I want to give you a ton of credit for that.

You're really technically, that's another thing too.

You don't have happy feet.

You're like a quarterback who's calm in the pocket there doing these lifts.

That's impressive.

She's too nice to you.

But you are.

Listen, we have happy feet though.

When she said it, I was like, you're right.

I don't.

I don't do anything else, right?

But I keep my feet where they need to be.

I'm in no position to criticize you.

When we went to Knoxville a few years ago and Dylan Samson taught us how to dance.

That was better than me.

Brutal.

The years looked good.

A mind was like, I, I mean, my mind looks good because I'm with someone who knows what she's doing.

And she's explaining like, you can't see her giving me subtle cues.

Do this now.

Do this now.

Do this now.

If not for that, but I will.

It's funny because now I'm getting cocky.

And I cannot dance.

I still cannot dance.

But now I kind of think I can.

Are you, are you competing against other dads or other people that aren't dancers too?

Correct.

Oh, there's Dylan Samson.

Oh, yeah.

I'm better now than I was then.

So there's that in our lives.

But yes, no, I am competing against people in my age cohort who are not professional dancers.

So that, that is.

Okay.

Very helpful.

So we'll, you know, we'll have to come back next week after your performance and I'll judge.

So like, listen, I watch Star Search for my wife.

Look at you.

I know.

Look at that.

See, you got, you got the loose knees and the loose hips.

Yeah.

You're built for this.

I watch a lot of dancing competitions because my wife's into it.

And I don't know what I'm looking at.

So, but I am used to watching people dance.

So I'll give you an honest, honest feedback before the race.

I know.

I think carrying in a novel would, would rip me when a new one, if I were on the real show.

Do you, you will know if you won on Saturday?

I, I think the winner is the person who raises the most money.

So I'm going to need everybody in the audience to, to give, see if everybody in the audience gives a buck.

We're in good shape.

Okay.

Well, depending on how the tournament games go for me on Thursday and Friday.

Saturday's donation.

Yeah.

So we're all rooting for Arkansas right now.

Right.

Arkansas is going to win, right?

I don't know.

I have no idea.

No idea.

I, I, these, these 16 games are awesome.

We will, we will break those down on Thursday and, and try to, try to give you some predictions.

But I don't know, man.

These games are, are tough to predict.

We can't wait.

I can predict.

I probably will not win the dancing competition.

But I'm, I'm, I'm going to throw you a few shackles.

Listen, I am going to rock out on that stage.

I'm, I'm leaving it all out there.

That's all I can remember.

If the balls make the elite eight, I'll donate.

Everybody.

I love your team there.

They're happy.

Yeah.

Go balls.

Yeah.

No, we'll talk to you.

I'll throw a few bucks, but yeah.

I appreciate it.

See you tomorrow.

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