OB425: Navigating IFR Frequency Land, Part 3

What you saw here today, what live happened in real time, was me coming to this realization that I have missed this

blurb in the 7110 for a long time. So that just shows you. I've almost been doing this for 15 years.

There is no end to your learning.

Ready.

Welcome to a posing basis, air traffic talk, an aviation podcast by two air traffic

controllers and rated pilots who love to talk about flying, controlling, and everything in between.

The show is for entertainment purposes only and should not be used as a substitute for your instructor,

your supervisor, the FAA, the NTSB, or your cat.

The show will give you a better understanding of how things work in the national air space system

and maybe even make you laugh along the way.

Please welcome retired Army pilot Alpha Golf and first officer at Penguin Airlines

Romeo Hotel.

It's Wednesday, February 18th, 2026 episode, 425 on today's show. We'll continue the conversation

about arguably the most training friendly airspace in the N.S., revisit ATC zero during storms

and change listeners lives. What's up, Bayji?

Hello, hello everyone. Happy Wednesday.

Yes, double hitter Wednesday.

We are pretty much in a Wednesday routine now.

I think that's going to be the norm.

I think it has to be for now. Yep.

I am back from a short trip for my wife's very important birthday that I'm allowed to talk about.

And I like being on a cruise ship. I decided I want to do that full time and do this life thing

maybe a few days a year. Just make that your lifestyle.

Yeah. If I lived on a cruise, I would gain probably a hundred pounds within a month or two.

That would be healthy. We have kind of a no elevator rule.

Yeah. Like that. You'll get your steps in.

How many stories are we talking about on a cruise ship?

While our room was on 10, we went up to 16 a lot.

And you know, where passengers are is down to like the 6-7 region.

So there's a 10 floor range of floors you can be on where you wanted to be doing something.

Either you move to 16. Yeah. That's a haul. Your legs are feeling it by then.

You're probably breathing hard too. You get up to the top of the stairs for breakfast.

Yeah. We made it. Yeah. My legs actually burned a little bit after another week.

Like yeah. Six flights at a time is good exercise on it.

So that prevented us from gaining as much weight as we could have gained.

Maybe question mark. The weather was great. The ship was great. The people were great.

We're already planning our next one.

Cool. How's Triad been?

Good. I think. I had a 40 weekend.

Excellent. Which is very heavily contrasted with the weekends I have coming up.

What just don't exist. Which is our non-existent.

Although, and I'm feeling, I'm already feeling pretty tired.

You know. I hear you. Yeah. I mean, you could plan ahead for fatigue.

Yeah. You know your body better than anybody.

I do. I know. I already know what's going to happen.

Right. So to speak. Uh-huh. Yeah. The snow is melted. It's warm.

It's warm here. Almost. There are piles of junk. I still have a chunk by the front door.

Oh nice. Protected by shade of your house.

Okay. Yes. Did you know that's why in the northern hemisphere, the north face

of a mountain is typically steeper and more snow-covered.

And that is where that name comes from. The clothing?

Yes. Oh, okay. Well, like that. The north side of my house was the last part of the house

to see snow melt. Yeah. So the university that's here, I guess, the best I can tell is they

they put all their snow into trucks and they hauled it to the mall, the abandoned mall parking lot

and dumped it there. That snow will be there until June. Are you serious? They did that here?

Yes. Really? It is a mountain of snow covering probably three acres.

It's still there. I drove by it the other day. It is massive. It won't be a massive for a long time.

It could be a glacier. It might be a glacier. Are there people trying to climb it?

Not yet, but it's just a matter of time. My phone tried to show me every video of snow removal

during these snowstorms. And there are some places in the world that really have it down pat.

They take it away in a truck. They have a blower pushing it into the top of a truck and they

just drive it away. And there's a convoy of trucks. Oh, yeah. Because otherwise. Why would you put

it all in the city streets? If you get two feet of snow. Right. With cars on the street.

Just a pile on the sidewalk. And then the poor people in New York, I do feel bad for them

because they don't do that in New York. They just plow it into your car. So there's an ice wall.

Oh, you wanted to drive that? Cool. Call us in April. Yeah. Yeah, we plowed the roads,

but no one can get to them. Yeah, no traffic. By the way, where is my car? Yeah.

Out there pushing the alarm button. Hopefully you can hear it. Yeah.

We came back through Miami. I don't remember ever going to that airport. It's a very strange

airport. I don't think I've ever been there. It's very long terminal. If you don't take the train,

you can walk for, it's probably a mile long. Wow. It's, it's not short. Yeah. Wow. And we were there

all day because the direct flight that I booked got moved back three or four hours after the time

that I booked it. It wasn't delayed. Uh-huh. But I didn't want to go through Metroplex or some other

place. I just didn't want to do that. No, no, no. So we went downtown Miami hung out a little bit.

Little little Havana. Hmm. That's some nice local food. I love that sandwich.

Same picture of that sandwich. That was delicious. So shall we begin? Let us begin. All right.

Since OB424, we have some new members on the iceberg. Kila Mike, Julia Romeo,

Bravo Charlie, Mike Hotel, Tango Charlie, and Tango Hotel. And we got PayPal drops from Alpha

Charlie and Delta Mike. If you've been enjoying the show, you can take it to the next level by

joining our premium feed on supercast. Supporters get on time episodes with no delay, our back catalog,

access to our live stream recording like now, bonus audio, and a direct line to us through our

supporter. Only email you'll keep the show ad free and 100% community supported. You can learn more

at opposing bases dot supercast dot com. Thank you, everybody. Thank you.

Maybe I want an outspans to do end announcements. What would you like to do?

I'll take the review and one announcement, I think. I think that's appropriate. I'd agree to that.

Okay, go. The review five stars titled staying sharp, been listening for the majority

of my flight training in my mooney and recently completed and passed my eye for check ride.

Congrats. In the great white north, OB has been invaluable in keeping my head in the game

between flights as a private pilot with a busy professional life. I truly think you made my

IFR flight training much more efficient, speaking to center frequency. The first time felt like a

non-event thanks to the confidence I have on the radio courtesy of your show. I appreciate all

you do for aviation making this podcast must be a tremendous amount of work. Keep it up, Juliet,

hotel, from Canada. Canadian. Yeah. Okay. Or snow is normal. Where there is just snow.

You know, if you're training in parts of the country that have a lot of snow,

add this to your shopping list of things to look for. Flight schools with hangar airplanes.

I wish he did hangar. Okay. Might be asking a little bit too much, but at least protected by the

from the elements. Yeah. And a place for maybe it's a little bit above freezing, so snow doesn't

stay on the plane when you put it back. That kind of thing. But when I did my flight training,

I happened to move to Massachusetts during the coldest winters on record. And we had hangars.

It's really not that funny. It's not. It's terrible. Terrible. So if you have access to a place with a

hanger, even if it's just to put the plane in, you know, a couple hours before you get there,

hook up an engine preheater on it and get everything that was accumulated on the ramp off of it.

Man, life would be so much easier. So think about that when you're shopping for flights cold.

So when we, especially on night flights, when we would be out two or three ships are out training,

it was a race because typically there would be one, maybe two spots to put an aircraft in the hangar.

If you were back first, you're going in the hangar. Have I ever talked about the blade covers?

You did once, but I want to hear it again. It's a terrible, what a terrible invention.

Imagine your fingers as cold as they've ever been completely useless. No feeling. I can't even tell

where my hands are. I don't even sure that they're attached. If they weren't attached, I wouldn't

really know the difference. Now, in this state of feeling or not feeling, I'm asking you in the

freezing cold, standing on a platform 16 feet above the ground, to which there is no safety,

rail or anything. Oh, shows nightmare. Right. To put a cover on a rotor head,

that this cover is probably eight feet wide. That has to be zipped. The most intricate of zippers

must be attached underneath, underneath the blade, underneath the hub, in the most impossible

fashion. And it's dark and freezing, and it's dark and freezing windy cold snowing. You cannot

feel your most of your body. Now, you are willing to cut your flight time short and be first

to park in the hangar where there is heat and light and no requirement for putting head covers on.

Yeah. Let's bring back terrible memories of the wing covers we had.

Yeah. Because if you didn't put them on, and the plane is all icy.

Yeah. They were more for the fact they had these bumpers on them to prevent the wings from working

while it was tied down and flying away. Yeah. Right. Sure. They were basically lift boilers.

Now, they had a netting to it, and it would help if there was, you know, it's got to be like that

perfect type of precip to actually pull it off, because the wing cover would get glued to the

it would be part of the frozen precip. Right.

For ice. It was so mesh. Yeah. You're not flying anyway.

But the plane, the plane is still there. This is really what they're for.

So if you're okay, your plane's outside, it gets iced, snowed, whatever.

You're waiting for the sun. Yes. That's not the sun. We're in the same boat.

Yes, you move, we can move it around and get a little better angle on the sun.

But that first flight of the day, maybe two blocks worth, the six o'clock and the eight o'clock

block, they're done. They're not going anywhere, because we had grooms, but you're going to damage

the wings if you try, you know, really getting the ice off, and they weren't going to pay for us

the DIC airplane. Right. Oh, this lesson only costs an extra thousand dollars. Yeah.

If the hanger aircraft weren't fly bowl, we would pull one out and put the frozen one inside.

And they would crank up the heat. Right. And in a couple hours, it would be ready to go.

Do you want the first announcement? The first announcement from patron, supercaster patron.

Juliet Sarah is a CFI. Congrats. Congrats. And this is

Yeah. Juliet Sarah is from the midlife. Midwest. Midwest. I'm sorry. Yes. Midwest.

Midwest. He's like confused. The midwest pilot podcast. That's right.

Mm-hmm. Congrats. Cool. Thank you. Number two, supercaster, Juliet Oscar got his commercial

multirating. Congrats. Is that an update from the home of the famous Miracle Whip Hospital,

South of the Vikings Bravo? I passed my commercial multi-engine check ride earlier this month.

My instrument rating was this summer, and my commercial single was last winner. Congrats on those.

Thank you so much for your show. All right. Thank you for the bonus audio detailing the

challenges of airline training. It is extremely well done and rich in detail. Keep up the great work.

Well, cool. Thanks for the note. Nice. And congrats. And number three, supercaster Alpha Mike is

a CFI. Congrats. This has been a great week. I started off with the elation of passing my flight

instructor check ride out of the max birthplace delta under the coffee bravo after months of prep,

including the consumption of the OB archives at record speeds. The oral was a breeze and we were

done well before lunch. I was relieved to avoid an eight hour horror story like we hear so often.

The flight was fun too with possibly the greatest shortfield landing of my life and a less

impressive left eight on pylon. You know, the eight on pylon, just take them away. They're also

that's chandeliers and eight on pylon. Just have them. I don't want to, I don't want to hear about them

again. Good for you. Congrats. To cap things off the Seahawks won the Super Bowl. I'm sure this

triumph can be credited to the bird forward attitude of this show. Thanks for the great show. All

the best Alpha Mike. Cool. Congrats. And I'm glad you're seeing if I check ride was less than eight

hours. That's not the, that's not the norm. Probably there are, there are some outliers that are in

that time span. I think a bigger challenge now is finding a DP that can do those rides and

that's available in the next century. Before plasma propulsion takes over. Right. We have it,

we found a DP. The bad news is there are no longer going to be with us by the time you can

schedule this check ride. They actually did the Wright Brothers first check ride. Yeah, who

checked those guys out? Exactly. I want to see the paperwork. Okay, moving on.

Time may be back. Time may be back. I'm exhausted, your turn. I offered to do two of those you did

to. Hmm. I thought you said the review and the first review or the first announcement,

which had no words. So I felt like you were telling me to do the two with words. Oh,

good point. No, I'm sorry. Number one, from Penguin O'Channel,

Ema Green's Gents, for a change of pace, I'm for going a Greek epic length story that ends up

as a show topic and passing along a quick note that the community might find helpful or validating.

A pilot body of mine sent along a link that visualizes ADSB traffic in three dimensions.

What's neat about this site is that you can also visualize airspace boundaries and view aircraft

breadcrumbs to a maximum length with a slider for full effect to see exactly what you've been telling

us for years, just because you're not in the class Bravo Charlie or Delta doesn't mean that you're

not in the way. I looked at a hair, for example, and visually it becomes very clear that loitering

above the Bravo is a really, really biblically stupid idea. Ignoring that for a second,

you get a better sense of the arrival and departure flows at your home airport,

like where they keep arrivals so departures can get out.

I think we can read that website. It'll take up a lot of your spare time. It's really fun.

Yeah, so objectiveunclear.com forward slash heirloom.html.

I think you can, maybe that's just the way they copied it, but if you head over there,

you could type in the airport and give it a couple seconds. It'll start showing traffic moving

around. Remember the small number of air traffic scenes in Pushington? Yes. Where they showed his

brain thinking about it. Yeah, remind of me of that. It's colorful. You can move around. You can

take an overhead look. You could be sink down. Are you looking at one? Yes, I'm mesmerized.

It's amazing. You're a controller. Hold on, let me remind everybody. The view from a controller's

perspective is 2D. We're looking at a looking down essentially. You have to read the data blocks

to imagine the third dimension of altitude. Seeing this picture, we just watched AG's

face light up. This is amazing. I love this. Look at this. You've got the center. You've got

stuff overhead. What it also does is this seems like it's to scale in terms of

altitudes. And you realize that it's really not that high. It's not really not as high as you

think. Right. A runway is about a mile or two long. Let's just stay to from average runway.

Yeah. 10,000 feet. In 10,000 feet, we have 10 usable altitudes. Right. For airplanes to merge.

Right. And these guys in the flight levels are only two runways above them. Yeah.

Very close. It's very cool. If you wanted to Phoenix.

Interesting. How do I move about the country?

No. No. But you have to continue recording the show.

Oh, right. Put that down.

The show. Okay. Objectiveunclear.com forward slash heirloom. Check it out.

Yes. Oh, they continue the note. Sorry. You didn't read the rest.

Right.

Oh, I hope some find this interesting as I did. I found it interesting.

Charlie, but I'm still finding it interesting. Currently it became I realized I've made a mistake.

It became it became an instant rabbit hole into which I placed my time and wondered where it went.

I did that just now. How long was I going? Five minutes.

That's very cool. Thank you for sitting that. I really encourage you.

If you have any sort of interest in looking at that kind of thing to go look at it.

Very good. Number two, from Supercaster Charlie Whiskey, the FBO guy.

It was a little bit of confusion about people that share the same first name.

And that was my fault. I know who this is though.

Just a quick question from the FBO guy at the base of the tower with the impending winter storm

just days away. It seems likely that there will be no traffic flying into the mythical triad.

If there is no traffic inbound or outbound in a massive snowstorm,

well ground tower and tracon still be staffed as usual reduced or ATC zero.

The FBO will still be operational for deicing of general aviation aircraft that are crazy

enough to fly into the mess. Just wasn't sure if ATC reduces staffing in such scenarios,

safe travels and clear skies after this weekend. FBO guy, Charlie Whiskey.

I cannot answer this question accurately because I wasn't in the facility recently.

What happened to staffing? The people not show up because it would be a legitimate concern

of getting to work. Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely.

No, I don't think we explicitly reduced staffing. It just reduces itself

by people that can't get to work or can't get to work safely,

you know, especially guys that live farther away. And the roads really were pretty bad.

For several days. That being said, there was no traffic.

There really was very, very little traffic. The airport keeps a runway open,

but there was just really no one flying. So it didn't have to be fully staffed.

I think they kept the operation combined in the tower a lot more than normal.

Um, like a midnight configuration. So last people needed one room staffing.

Right. You could see everything that's going on and a little radar traffic that you do have.

You can work it on the Game Boy Scope. Yep.

The day run it like radar was over at local all day, just like a mid. Sometimes. Okay. Yeah.

Interesting. But we typically had enough people to split it off.

And have the radar open downstairs. I'm going to speak in general terms.

The FAA is not in the business of shutting down. They like to have options for planes.

So they won't come out and just say, all right, everybody at these 50 airports don't go to work.

They won't do that because when the weather breaks and the runway becomes available and things

are more conducive to flying, they want you in position to work.

And that's how it should be. You should be in position to keep a facility open.

Yeah. Is that fair? I think so.

Um, you know, some of the non-towered airports probably were closed for weeks. They weren't open.

Nobody was going out and plowing these runways. Were they? No. No.

We're going to talk about cigarette later. It's either in this show or the second one of the double

header. Uh, they did close for quite a while. We'll talk about that. Yeah. Okay.

Thank you, Trollowisky. All right. Moving on.

All right. This looks showtop because navigating the IFR frequency land part three,

it's a follow-up that's too rich in context and too important to skip. So we're making it part three.

And if you have a problem with that, I kindly ask you to get over it.

Yeah. Go find. Go find one of the other air traffic control podcasts out there.

All right. From Supercaster, Pop out of November, hello, AGE and our H. Thank you for discussing

my feedback on 422 and 423. That's a part one and part two of this. It was great to hear your

thoughts. At the end of OB-423, you made the potentially tactical error of broadcasting the

fact that your inbox was under control. So please send more feedback as you scroll down and down

and down. Please remember, you asked for this. I should have had you read that. Would it sound

a better coming from you? Why don't you start us off? I divide this up. There's some new stuff

we're going to tackle in this, uh, towards the lower half of this feedback, which is all very good.

I didn't want to take anything out of it. Um, and if you see an opportunity to inject some current

commentary, go ahead. Okay. All right. All right. Uh, this is, let's see, pro training bravo,

pro training bravo, right? Something I failed to highlight in my original feedback is that my

experiences with the coffee bravo controllers have been excellent. Uh, they have shown me nothing

but patience and professionalism even when my readbacks were slow or when I have to ask them to

repeat or confirm some or all of a clearance. This has been true, even when the frequency is

congested with a thick soup of airliners, corporate jets smaller, I tend to train flight skydiving

ops. Uh, and VFR flight following your discussions on the show made me realize how fortunate I am

to be learning in this pro training corner of the NAS. And I like to say a public thank you to anyone

from the coffee bravo trick on who may be listening and two controllers everywhere who put in the extra

effort to enable excellent training flights throughout the NAS. You are helping build better pilots,

many of whom will go on to train the next generation of pilots and then may join the airlines and

be responsible for the safety of our loved ones in the air. Thank you. That's exactly right. That's

exactly right. Controllers should be hearing that. Hear that and understand how important it is

to provide this training service to these people. They could be flying your loved ones around in

the future. Do your part. That's all. That's all. I will echo those thank yous to the controllers

at these busier airports that still take the time to give attention to what some GA pilots think

are less than in terms of the big scheme of things, but you're really not. You're part of the system

and you're you're just as entitled to the services. So thank you. Yeah, it's sort of ridiculous to

think that, oh, only, you know, jets, turbo props and airlines are entitled to the full complement

of services. Well, how did all of those pilots get there? Tell had to go through training.

The reason that this is special is because there are bravo air spaces that are not like this.

They are the opposite of this. There are even Charlie air spaces. Some very close to us.

Some might be us that do not provide a service like this with less traffic.

This is why the Seahawks won the Super Bowl. It's because of attitudes like this in the Northwest.

It really is. All right, section two clearance limits. There was some discussion in OB-422

about potentially exceeding a clearance limit when using the files of the first airport only

technique. We both had issue with that in terms of our worrisome. We were a little bit worried about

that. Here we go. So far, that has not happened unless I misunderstand the rules. The controller

asks how will the approach terminate and we say we intend to go missed. Then they ship us over to

CTAF or Tower with a friendly talk to you on the mist. We complete the low approach or touch and

go start to fly the published mist. Call them back and they say say next approach request. We tell

them what we'd like to go next and we hear the magic words cleared two words at that time.

For those of you who are not familiar with that, cleared two are our magical and regulatory

words associated with an IFR flight plan and they are required. And they're needed later on

in the more the rabbit hole of lost comms. Where can we go? I have always assumed that when

you're cleared for an approach that includes the mist approach procedure and therefore we have

not exceeded our clearance limit as long as we remain on the published mist. So far, I've never

had a controller ask us to fly the published mist. We've said that before in the show if not 100

times. Published mist is very unlikely, especially at a towered airport. But I will occasionally

request to do so either to practice a hold or because I need a moment to put out a helmet fire

or to brief and configure for the next approach. That internet search led me down a 7110

warm hole except in the case of a VFR aircraft practicing an instrument approach and approach

clearance automatically authorizes the aircraft to execute the mist approach procedure depicted

for the instrument approach procedure being flown. Okay, so that's key distinction there except

for a VFR practice approach. This confirms my presumption that when flying an IFR flight plan,

my approach clearance includes the mist. So I have not exceeded my clearance limit as long as I

remain on the mist approach. Yes, we're going to get into that nuance a little bit. Yeah, okay.

Likely, if you're getting misses in here and they know you're going missed, they're probably giving

you alternate instructions or coordinating with the tower that you're going to to issue a heading

and an altitude because most published mist approaches was going to get mad at me for saying this.

Most published mist approaches are terrible for air traffic. Yeah, but they don't

they don't take into account local procedures. Normal traffic flow none of that.

The except in the case of the VFR aircraft practicing an instrument approach wording seems

relevant to the discussion on the OB-423. It makes it clear that when a controller clears a VFR

aircraft, for a practice instrument approach, they do not have to protect for the mist. That has

always been the case where a controller shouldn't feel like they're having to do that. I believe you

mentioned that uncertainty on this point is one of the issues some controllers have with VFR

practice approaches, but it would seem the 710 does have an answer for this. I hope we said that.

So we emphasized some wording in the letters that we did read that the approach clearance was

the start of your IFR separation and the end of it was the mist approach point. That was the case

with our old letter that expired, right? I don't remember that way. I don't remember it saying

the mist approach point that I don't remember that language being included. It just said we'll

provide IFR separation services to these airports, which led us to always believe

IFR separation that includes the mist approach. Hence the culture of blocking

at boundary airports for those approaches.

Okay. No, I don't think you're wrong. I think the, now I'm trying to

historically remember, when they changed to 710, they do a very bad job of telling us what

used to be in that place of the magic black change bars. I have a conflicting memory that the

7110, not the L away that we had, had always differentiated the clearance stopped.

The IFR separation stopped at the mist approach point. I thought that was always the case,

maybe I'm wrong. Okay. All right, they continue. The wording from the 71 is consistent with the

Crawford Bravo's letter to Airman, which says IFR separation when available will commence at the

point where the approach clearance becomes effective and terminates at the mist approach point.

The words in the LTA make it clear to pilots what the 7110 already says the controllers will do.

On the next episode, we're going to get into some wording of some of these letters and a lot of

it is borrowed from the 7110. Yeah, so you could make an argument, I think, I don't know, just

tell me if I'm crazy here, that telling an IFR aircraft practice approach approved no

separation surfaces is provided could be this IFR aircraft practicing an instrument approach

category. Right, so this is not an aircraft I said cleared ILS 6 to cofactory 2. I just said

practice approach approved no separation surfaces provided. All right. And that for that aircraft,

I'm not protecting for the mist. But if I'm providing IFR separation,

see how we're getting into this weird place of, okay, if this wasn't IFR aircraft, I am

definitely protecting for the mist. I see your point. So what is it? Where, you know, if I have

a letter saying I'm providing IFR separation, that to me is why coffee bravo specifically defined

where this terminates. And the 7110 does, too, for IFR practice approaches.

It defines where it terminates. Where at the mist approach point is where it terminates.

And that's what the 7110 says. I believe so. Okay, the wording in that LTA is not accidental.

It's pulled from that. Okay. You want the next part? Yeah, the full stops.

See, yeah. Okay. All right. The full stops. As you noted in OB-423, there are a couple

of airports mentioned in the coffee bravo's practice approach LTA, which are very close to the main

bravo airport. And the letter to airmen says practice approaches at these airports are only

authorized when terminating in a full stop. Despite my best intentions to terminate my practice

approach with a full stop, there's always the chance I'm going to blow the approach and be

unable to land it on the first attempt. Yes, for a VFR aircraft, this doesn't seem like a problem.

You're in VMC and you're obligated to maintain VFR during the whole approach. A VFR practice

approach will obviously never be approved in the field. If the field you're going to is below

VFR minimums, when you reach the mist approach point, you're just a plain old VFR aircraft again.

If you if you blow the approach, you go around into the pattern and land VFR, you remain

under the towers control and the Traycon doesn't have to deal with you until sometime after your

full stop taxi back. Okay. The situation is a bit more complicated for an aircraft on an IFR

flight plan. However, if the field is VFR, it seems the appropriate thing to do. If you blow

the approach is to initiate the go around cancel IFR with the tower to make yourself a VFR

aircraft enter the pattern and land VFR just like the VFR practice approach would.

I agree with that. It seems like the thing you would do, not go blasting off into a

partric corridor or into an arrival corridor for an adjacent airport.

You could see how the ceiling is low and we're actually low IFR how this can really slow down

traffic at adjacent airports. I got a bunch of rivals coming in to coffee bravo and if you go mist

which is highly likely in this weather, this is bad. You're going into a bad place.

You are either going to be issued alternate mist instructions or if you're really

Nordo and you do the publish mist, they're going to have to stop arrivals or start moving people

away. I don't know this setup exactly here, but you get my point.

As far as it being VMC and an IFR aircraft doing a practice approach, botches the thing and has

to go around. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Just stay cancel and stay VFR.

That's an easy way to solve that. Correct. Yeah. I'm going to read from the 7110. I found the blurb.

Okay, good. In the link that they set, it's deep into that sub. Let me get the section number

and then I'll go back down. 48-1. Approach clearance is it's deep. It's way down. A few pages.

And it says, I'll bear with me. Control or responsibility for IFR separation

to VFR aircraft begins at the point where the approach clearance becomes effective and ends

when the aircraft reaches the mist approach point. Control or responsibility for IFR separation

begins when the approach clearance happens and ends at the mist approach point.

Which begs the question on why we're ever blocking unless it was the final approach course

was adjacent to somebody's boundary. Because we, according to this, their IFR separation was done

when they went on the mist. Now, we could give them alternate mist instructions. We could tell them

to fly a heading. We can tell them to report the mist and then, you know, radar identify them,

give them vectors. But according to the 7110, we were never required to give IFR separation. I don't

know how long that word's been in there. But my memory serves me kind of conveniently right now to

remember it always being there. You think that was always in there? I do. Huh. I do.

I don't. It does, yeah, okay. I mean, I, it's like my whole world is just crumbling down right now. I

don't. If that's true, why? I don't understand what we were doing before. We could have been issuing

them an alternate mist and then continuing that protection along those lines the whole time,

you know, especially if you wanted to do subsequent approaches at that airport or another one.

Okay, let's just protect all the way down. I think most of our, if ever, again, my memory is a little

bit shady on this. I remember blocking far more for IFR attendant airplanes at those airports,

southwest racetrack, coat factory, mountain racetrack up to the north. Those were adjacent

and we were always blocked for IFR's going in there until they canceled. Yeah. Are you telling

me that I would have always blocked for a flight school VFR, clearing a million day? People did it.

Huh. On, on VFR days? Yeah. Really? Yeah. Okay. Can I continue?

While you contemplate your life decisions? Yeah. Go ahead.

All right. I think some of this is new and I'm going to read some of it fast and I want to kind of

wrap it up as simple as possible for this section. I think you got it into the weeds a little bit too

much. Popping November, the situation gets more complicated if the field is IFR.

Assume you're shooting an ILS. The ILS minimums are around 300 feet, but the plate also has circling

minimums, which are around 750 feet a jail on a mile visibility. The field could be 900 feet overcast

or have a two mile visibility, which would make it IFR, but still have the above circling minimums.

In this situation, if you blow the ILS approach, it seems likely it seems like you could remain IFR

and circle to land, which is basically just flying the pattern a bit lower than usual.

If there's no one coming in behind you, then you have time to circle on land and try again.

But these airports are so busy, so it's unlikely to be the case. What options does the

tower have here? Can they leave an IFR, let you circle, and apply visual separation with incoming IFR

aircraft? Being asked to a 360 turn for spacing on the downwind and a VFR condition is no problem,

but if I'm still IFR and performing a circle maneuver and were below VFR minimums, I'm flying

pretty low and have to stay pretty close to the runway. You know, we're getting into the weeds,

you're talking about the 1.3 nautical miles for category A's. Let me just set blanket statement

this. Okay, you tell me if this is crazy. If the weather is questionable and bordering on IFR,

I don't care if you call it a practice approach, you're still IFR and you fly the airplane like

you're IFR. Yeah, you're going to do IFR published misses or follow the towers instructions in this

example or follow the radar instructions that you were given before you got shipped to the tower

and the event of a missed approach, fly heading blah, blah, blah, maintain this altitude. They

coordinate that with the tower. Even if you said I'm doing a practice approach, I have an instructor

with me or doing practice approaches. If the weather's IFR, nobody cares about the practice portion of it.

You're just being treated like an IFR. Is that better? Yeah, so just keep that in mind. Some of this gets

a little bit wrapped around the axle button. I'm going to tell you that I believe controllers are

going to be really hesitant to have you circling around and trying to do visual with an arrival

or give you a 360. That is very unlikely. I think I even mentioned that as an option like,

hey, can you just do a circle to land? No, you're going around. If you say you're going missed,

they're saying, Roger, climb and maintain fly heading at a controlled place.

Yeah, they're treating you like IFR. We're not doing this. Oh, well, now if I turn you into

IFR, I can watch you do this tight spinnings. No, that's not a good night. I don't like that.

If I cancel, I'm skipping some of this. If I cancel IFR and request special IFR,

does that give the tower any additional flexibility? Don't do that. Just be IFR in this. You

didn't approach. It didn't work out. Visibility was questionable or something happened and you

actually have to go missed. It doesn't matter if you're on a practice approach, go missed.

You know, yeah, if there's an aircraft behind you and we're talking about a delta,

the special IFR is going to do the opposite of what you. All right. You just made things infinitely

more difficult for the controller. Yeah. All these options seem pretty awkward and sketching.

It would require a lot of communication with the tower to formulate a plan. The moment you

realize you have, you have to go around, seems like a bad time to start the conversation, but you're

also not going to start that conversation in advance since your intent is for a successful approach

to a full stop landing. As is every IFR approach. Listen, go missed. Yeah, I think if you're in this

weird place that, you know, a practice IFR approach on an IFR day that you think could result in a

mist or go around, I would start discussing that with the tower early. Hey, and if pilots have

done this with us all the time, hey, and the event of a mist, where can we expect to go?

So we can start programming and get ahead of this thing. And I just, I tell them you're going to

get 3000 and runway heading. At least temporarily. Get you going in the right direction. Yes.

I think that's totally fine. There isn't a too soon to start talking about this. I mean,

you know, before you get, get been given an approach clearance from radar, don't start talking,

well, what are we going to do in the event of a mist? No, but when you get to the tower,

right? That's a good time. Yeah. What can we plan on if we go missed? And you kind of alluded

to this in the next couple of sentences. Just flying the published mist seems preferable for everyone

here. I think that's an assumption that we can, we have talked about many times in the past.

I'll mention it one more time. At a towered airport, a charlier Bravo in the United States is

extremely unlikely that you will fly the published mist. When you do initiate a mist approach,

fly the plane first, key up, we're going missed. I can almost promise you that the next words

out of the controller's mouth will be a heading and an altitude. Yes. They will not say fly the

published mist. Yeah, that's rare. And in the United States, the European controllers,

that's not the case. You are getting the published mist. Okay. You don't even ask. You're just

doing it. Okay. Yes. So I'm putting that little asterisk on there. All right, let me continue this.

Not to mention as a field is low, I far close to ILS minimums and you blow your approach,

your out of options. You have to go miss, despite your best intentions, not to and the towers

going to have to hand you back to the track on. All right. So some of those airports said that you

should be full stop. If you're doing these practice approaches, we're kind of in a very rare

scenario you're describing. Low IFR day or close to minimums day, practice approaches aren't as

prevalent. Itinerant arrivals are where you're filing multiple flight paints. Because you can get a

lot out of that. Yes. We're going to do a full stop. We're going to do the ILS into

Coat Factory Airport. And we have another flight plan on file, but we're going to do this

like an actual flight. And it's 300 foot sea lungs. We're going to break out. My students

going to see the benefit of the instrument rating that they were paying so much money for.

And we're not going to worry about going miss. We're going to do this. We're going to do

itinerant traffic. So I don't know. I feel like it's rare on low IFR days where the possibility

of going miss because of the approach minimums can't be met for practice approaches is extremely rare.

Would you agree with that? Yes. And I think it should be.

Are great. Yeah. So what we're saying before everybody gets upset because we've encouraged

people to go out and die M.C. Yeah. The thousand to three thousand foot AGL clouds that you could

be in safely in non-icing conditions is different than 200 to 300 foot sea lungs questionable

viz and an anxious instructor to show you what real IFR is like. There's a big difference.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we would encourage you to get actual IMC, but even as an airline pilot,

it is extremely rare to be landing close to minimums. That might happen once every month.

Right. You know, it depends on the airport you go to. If you're based in a place that's always

crappy weather, maybe, but it's not common to go to minimums and be thinking you're going to go

missed IFR. That's not a thing. It's you're talking a few days of the year where visibility is

that bad or clouds that low. So all right. They continue. Then you get your last little part down here.

My rating of the spirit of the letter, the real IFR approaches on real IFR flight plans to fields

that are currently in real IFR conditions is simply, hey, going missed shouldn't be plan A,

but of course, if it happens, we've got your back and you're not going to get a phone number to call

for that. Totally agree. Not going to happen. That is not going to happen. Okay. So let me back up.

I think this is what we're trying to distinguish here. And the letters say, the intent is your full stop

and, you know, this magical day where you're like, man, we're going to shoot an ILS approach.

So let's go do some approaches. But if we go miss, we're not, we're violating the letter,

because it says we have to be full stop. Your IFR, you can do what you want. You intended to perform.

Exactly. Full stop. Now, if you checked in with approach and said, hey, our plan is to get to

about 400 feet and go missed, now you're not meeting the intent of the letter. Right. Now they

would say, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, what not doing that? Yeah. Then I'm going to

suggest a couple other options for you to go to. It won't be this one, because we're making a place

for you to be. And it's not going to be for funsies. This is for real time. Yeah. Yeah. And don't try

anything sneaky like, hey, it certainly isn't our intent to go missed at like 400 feet. Yeah.

Right. In the last five, I tend to write arrivals. I've gotten down no problem. And all of a sudden,

you come along. Yeah. Yeah. We'd hate to not break out and have to go around.

Yeah. Uh-huh. My intent, they continue to perform a full stop landing would be

amply supported by the fact that I've filed two fly plans for the training mission, one for every,

one for the way there and a separate one for the way back. For all practical purposes, I look

like a very short, itinerant flight. The only thing that separates me from a real itinerant flight

is the fact that I happen to be in an aircraft with an instructor at the time. Yeah. Just don't get

too wrapped up around all this. If you're trying to, you're trying to defend something that you

don't really need to defend. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You said it perfectly. Yeah. There isn't

some restriction on, hey, we, it's too low for you. The ceilings are too low for you to come

out and do practice of roaches. It, that isn't a thing. So

if you intend to do a full stop, it didn't work out. The ceiling was lower. You botched the thing. I,

you know, whatever happens. It's fine. There's no need to defend it. Yeah. And a controller on

frequency who's maybe worked with a couple of itinerant already or maybe one of them want missed.

Like it's notable. Like everybody in the room will know, hey, they're going missed at this airport.

That's an anomaly. That's not common. Right. So if you come along after that and you're like,

hey, I wanted to do a practice approach, they're going to say, okay, this might not be the best idea

because my last arrival went missed at about 100 feet or 200 feet, whatever. And then you could

change the plan and go somewhere else. Yeah. Is that fair? Yeah. All right, you get the last part.

All right, check in protocol. Later in OB-422, you discussed another listener's feedback regarding

checking in with a heading. I have been taught to check in with whatever my current instructions are.

If the last thing I was told was direct to a fix, maintain 6,000, I check in with coffee approach.

November 1, 2, 3, we're direct to that fix at 6,000. If I've been vectored, I check in with something

like coffee approach. November 1, 3 heading 0, 4, 0, 6,000. If I'm still in a climb, this might

sound more like heading 0, 4, 0, 4, 200 climbing 6,000. Totally agree with all that. If I've been told

to resume own navigation, which hopefully means I'm about where my flight plan says I should be,

then I'll check in with the altitude only, such as coffee approach. November 1, 2, 3, 6,000.

When I get shipped to the tower on an approach, I'll check in with something like tower, ILS,

1, 6, right. This makes sure I'm talking to who I think I'm talking to, and they know who I am,

and what I think I'm supposed to be doing. That way, if the new controller is not the person I'm

supposed to be talking to, or if I'm not doing what they're expecting, we can fix it right away.

I totally agree with all of that. I wish more people would be a little more explicit about that,

especially at places with parallel runways, or they just check in. Yesterday, somebody did that.

They checked in. They said, we're 10 North. I said, okay, 2, 3, right, clear to land. They said

clear to land. I said, no, no, no, no. I have other aircraft going to 2, 3, left for which you are

a tie. So no, no, no, no. You say where you're going, who you are, where you are, and what you're

going to do. Establishes that you're both on the same sheet of music. Yes. Stop being cool guy,

brevity, you know, on the frequency. Thank you. Oh, this is my, I was waiting for you to start

reading. Where was I? From the controller side, would you find these checkings helpful? Yes. I

just explained that. Would you suggest anything different? No. I would not. As far as a general check

in. No. There's always some circumstance where you maybe need to convey some other message. But

for just generally checking in on a new frequency, yes, this is good. I love to put emphasis

somewhere here. If you emphasize, if you're IFR and you're not going to a fix on your file

flight plan, or you're not on an airway or you're not doing something, you're on a heading,

which happens a lot. Yes. Trafficplex. We're talking to you.

It's, you should emphasize the heading. If their response isn't something like you checked

in on your examples, heading 040, 4200, 6,000, the altitude parts is required to a new facility.

They need to verify that they're reading the correct altitude for you. So that part is an optional.

But you checking in on the heading should have been coordinated. If it's not part of a letter

of agreement between the two facilities, it probably was not. Probably not. No. Because controllers get

lazy sometimes to say it. Or they know that the other person's not picking up. So you know what?

I'm going to check in with your heading. Yeah. That might mean instruction you're given.

That happens in Europe a lot. Yeah. And I really don't understand why it's the same places all

the time. You would think their letters said that. But anyway, I digress. If they're, if you are

later not told to go direct to a fix or to resume your flight plans somehow, fly this heading,

join this airway, although rare, that can happen. Then you need to ask, hey, do you want us direct

to this next fix? Because they missed the part where you were on a heading. We're not flying heading

to heading throughout the NAS. That shouldn't be a thing. We're not in MD 80s with VLR to VLR

navigation. That was for you, Captain Jeff. Yeah. Without the fancy GPS. Anyway, I want to make

sure we didn't breeze over that. Your heading is an important IFR. It's an important thing.

If you're coming off a tower, turn left heading one on our zero. That's part of an L away. That's

how they expect you. We're talking in route, new facility. Make sure you know that you're not,

you're not on your flight plan. If you're on a heading, emphasize it. Right. Yeah. If you're doing

what your flight plan says, even if it's you were taken off your route. This look, this happens

all the time. Let's get all tied up about this purple line on their screen.

Who are off the purple line? And then the controller says, clear direct to the next fix in your

flight plan. I do not care that you are off your purple line. You're original. Yeah. Your

original A to B line or whatever it was. It does not matter to me. If you are direct to the next

fix in your flight plan, that is all that I care about. Additionally, when just as an aside,

when you are taken off your route and cleared direct to the next fix, let's say you're

vectored for traffic or vectored for weather. And I say clear direct. It doesn't mean fly back

to your course line. It just means from where you are. Go direct. And I get why controllers,

the old guys, used to say present position direct. And I'm like, why are you saying that?

What else could it possibly be? He goes and they would say you watch, you watch, they'll turn

30 degrees off and go back to their course line. That's because when they became controllers,

shortly after the right brothers retired. It was far more common to be on Victor Airways.

On a Victor Airway. There was no direct to a fix. It's more than 50 miles away. That wasn't a

thing. Right. So you had to fly heading 360 or join Victor X. Right. That's how they got used

to it. When GPS became a thing, they were conditioned to, I have to think differently from this. I

want you to turn direct. That was new for them. Right. But they kept teaching us that by then.

It was kind of normal. Ish. Yeah. And now it's, I haven't seen a slant alpha plane. No.

Or slant uniform. Also known as slant unable.

Slant worthless. Slant whiskey was, you know, worthless. Yeah. It's all slant golf and

lemons. Right. Which means they have RNAV GPS. They can go direct to a fix that's 3000 miles away

if you wanted them to. Right. Okay. There's another thing I want to emphasize in this before we get

that with this topic. Correct me if I'm wrong. But are we supposed to be saying resume navigation

to an IFR airplane? I don't say that. You just claim to fix on their flight plan. Right. Right.

We're like you said, a heading to join a radio or something. Yeah.

Resume on navigation to an IFR aircraft that's on a heading is, to me, it's far too ambiguous.

It's very big. You should be telling them turn left heading,

when able, clear direct to. You should say turn right, direct to that. That's how you remove all

the chances of a screw up here. Resume on navigation could be construed by that pilot.

Hey, do they want us to get back on our purple line? The one that you're making fun of?

Exactly. Right. Bad, bad, bad. So when you get that, if you get that from the controller,

say, it's just ask, can we go direct to this fix? Clear the table. I'm going to make this very

obvious. I want to go direct to this fix. Yeah, it might be like a mile or two off of what

my purple line is. But this is where I want to go. Please snap a new line. Yes. Direct the direct

button to that fix. Mm-hmm. Execute. Please don't forget to hit execute. Because I go back into

that mode. Don't stay in the heading mode. Yes. This happens all the time. Are you turning?

Oh, yes. Sorry. We're we're still in heading mode. I know. I know.

Okay. Sorry. Go ahead, fish it up.

Yes. Sorry. We kind of went on a tangent there. I think there's always for all the effort you

put into the show week after week, pop in November, PS. I enjoyed both the schnook and ice cream

by the fire bonus audio. If there's anyone out there who's on the fence about upgrading to get

access to the bonus audio, I get the bonus audio to thumbs up. Thank you. Thank you for that.

I appreciate it. We appreciate it. There's more of bonus audio coming. I will be working on

another one soon. Probably about flight planning. Maybe it's a week in the life of a

combat helicopter pilot. Because you really need about a week to go through the whole cycle.

Okay. Of what happens? I like that. Yeah. Very good feedback. Thank you for providing us with

this is record breaking for us three show topics on really one person's feedback, but it was rich

in context. And I think we need to spend more time than the average feedback. So thank you for

that. You know what? Let me say this too. What you saw here today, what live happened in real time

was me coming to this realization that I have missed this blurb in the 7110 for a long time.

Thinking that, you know, so that just shows you. I've almost been doing this for 15 years.

There is no end to your learning. It can be very humbling to realize now at this stage in the

game. Like, oh, wow, I've been wrong about that. And it's always been in the book. If that's true,

if it's always been like that, I have no idea how, how that happened. But certainly it was put

into my head at some point that that wasn't okay. So, you know, be open to being wrong, I guess.

Don't get so sad in your ways, because I clearly was wrong about that.

So, that's all. I'm glad we're all on the same page. Good. Excellent. All right. Thank you for

popping November. Moving on. Moving on.

Fade back time. All right. I'll get number one. How about that? Very good.

Now, this is an editorial summary. I took some liberties here. So it's a good story though.

From Supercaster Sierra, Sierra Delta. I finally got my blue OB shirt. It felt like the toy.

I set zero bucks tops away for as a kid. Do you remember that? Oh, yeah.

I wore it out running errands and stopped at a CVS for toothpaste. I mean, it's a great place

to wear your OB shirts. The cashier, a woman about my age asked about the shirt. I told her it was

opposing basis. Two pilots who also are also air traffic controllers. Funny and incredibly

informative than I mentioned. I'm a pilot. Of course. Every pilot does that.

Yes. That got her attention. She said she loves planes, especially the feeling of taking off.

But I'd only ever been on big jets. I told her my husband and I fly a banana. A small,

single-engine airplane and asked if she had ever been in a small plane. She had not. So,

I suggested a call to a local flight school and ask for an intro flight. You go up with an instructor,

you get to fill the controls. Even if you only do it once, you'll love it. You're never too old.

She looked at me and said you've changed my life. She really said that. But honestly, it was the OB T shirt

that changed her life. Sierra, Sierra, Delta. See, you never know what kind of conversations you're

going to get into. Yeah. Now, you just turned the course of someone's life like, huh?

Maybe I could do that. That's how we found out about her traffic.

That was fine with the captain. It wasn't a T shirt. He said, hey, if you thought about going into

air traffic, this was yours ago, obviously. No, that's only for military. You can't do that.

He says, no, no, no. They take people from like normal people. I said, no, they don't.

That they do. That changed my life. Yeah. If you're out there and you're wondering, you know,

you may not want to take flight lessons. Maybe it turns into that. But you want to go fly a plane,

go to the local airport, the one that makes all the fun noises, the planes you look at all the time,

find out where they're landing and ask where the flight school is and say, I want to do a discovery

flight or an intro flight. Those terms will ring a bell with somebody and go up. It wouldn't be

terribly expensive. No. No. No. And I'll be a great way to do something maybe you thought you

would never do. Everybody can do that. Right. You don't need a medical. You don't need any special

permission. And you could tell your friends you flew a plane. Exactly. Yeah. Did you take off? No.

Did you land? No. They wouldn't let me do that part. But we were moving when I was touching the

controls. I love that. Okay. Cool. Thanks for the feedback. That's a huge number two.

All right. Number two is Supercaster Whiskey Mike. Morning, fellas. I like many, I like many,

probably got a notification from the fast team this morning that they were going to have a meeting

at cigarette to discuss the tower closure and how things will work. I was curious if it might

be worthy of time on the show to talk about how that will work and how it changes things for a

relatively busy D to close to a C. That close to a C. Oh, that close to a C. I'll tell you this

without the remote frequency functioning like it is now. Yeah. Out of service. I thought about

that this morning when I'm like, you know what? If the frequencies work and it's going to be quite

annoying all day long, they're going to be called for releases. Yeah. Not only that, but we'd be

listening to all the pattern traffic. Oh, yeah. No, that's not good. See. And so, but it's not working

right now. Okay. Why? Great question. I just question. But no. I don't know. They just

haven't been able to fix it. Okay. Which is it is annoying on the mid because it's basically

cigarette. Winston closes at 930. And we monitor the frequency, typically just for IFR

releases and cancellations. We also get to hear, you know, landmark vehicle 13 is crossing

133 all night long, a crew van crossing 133. You know, now during the day at night, there's

really no pattern traffic. So you don't have to listen to that. But during the day, I have to listen

to this frequency for IFR releases, right? And for cancellations, which means I have to sit there

and listen to CTAF coming out of the speaker. Oh, no. All day long. And now I don't know if they've

come to an agreement. I haven't been briefed on how this is going to go down because they

they've kind of pushed it back a little bit. So wait, this is a plan. We're talking about not a

weather closing. This is a planned long term closing. Yes. Why? Because they're doing a construction

on the building, I guess. All right. On the actual like tower. Okay. I believe. Now we have a person

at work who is charged with conducting this briefing. And I'm assuming giving us a briefing on

what the procedure is going to be. If the CTAF is out or if it's not out, you know, do I have to

sit there and listen to this? That's going to be super annoying. That should not be a thing.

Hey, we're going to turn this into a normal, non-towered airport calls on flight service

or a phone number. Yeah. Period. Not listening to that thing all day. Yeah. Which as busy as they are

for IFR traffic is going to be kind of annoying. It's going to be a thing. A co-factory is just as busy

IFR. But the customers there typically are happy to pick it up airborne. Yeah. If they can, if

they're not, we have a remote that is independent of the CTAF. So I don't have to listen to CTAF.

It's way better. This is not that. This is a different thing. This is a thing that may not

typically happen anywhere. I don't know. I don't know what it's going to be. It's kind of weird.

Good luck with that. Yeah. Thanks. Keep us posted. Maybe it'll make more sense after it's actually

happening. Maybe. Or they task somebody who's in the middle with monitoring that frequency the

whole time. Which I can't imagine that either. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. I'm going to hold this phone

in my ear for two hours. Or the soup has to be on it back. No, no, no, no, no. That can't happen.

No. Publish a number on the 8s. Call this number for your clearance. For the controllers listening,

this isn't anomaly in the NAS. We listen to CTAF at triad because that tower is not 24 hours.

And it turns into a clearance delivery frequency. And on, you know, from 10 o'clock at night until

five in the morning, who cares? No one's there. But at six in the morning when those jets start

leaving and they start leaving then. Yeah. If you had to listen to all of them, it might as well

open a new scope there. That's there's a reason to have a tower. Yeah. Sometimes there's a stack of

arrivals. Yeah. Over there. Yeah. Or, or departures, I mean. Oh my gosh. You're going to do one

in one out there. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. It's. That's going to be terrible. It is.

I get the last one. Yeah. From Supercassia Mike Delta, H-R-H, I wanted to drop a quick note

to tell you how much I love the podcast and how it has helped me become a safer pilot and user

of the NAS. I have such a huge appreciation of the service that you will provide, that you all

provide. And it's very important to me as a professional, as possible in my interactions and

communications with ATC. Well, thank you. I thought I'd share a couple of milestones that I've had

in my aviation career in the past few months. Back in August, I bought my first airplane, SR-22,

Serious SR-22. Congrats. Cool. I have been very impressed with Serious as a company and the training

they provide both recurrent training and the free and bark transition training to new Serious buyers

of both new and pre-owned airplanes. I don't know if other manufacturers do this and we're not

sponsored by Serious, but I love that product. I've said that before. They do training and we know

an instructor who provides this embark transition training. You go by this Serious, which at first

look might seem like a normal general aviation airplane. Oh, what's the big deal? I'll just get

in turn it on and we, I bought it. I can do what I want. You're getting into a very advanced

airplane. Yes. So what the company does is hook you up with an expert, an expert on that aircraft

and you want to maybe three or four days of flying around and getting familiar with this airplane.

They want to protect the safety of their brand. It's working too. It is a great point. Yeah.

It is working. It's working. Since I got the airplane, I've been working on my instrument

rating. As you both know, it's a ton of work, but oh, so rewarding. I used an accelerated IFR program

in Charleston to finish up and I just passed my check ride this week. Congratulations. So

thanks again for all you do for the aviation community that we all love so much. Best regards

Emperor Captain Mike Delta. You didn't say it in this feedback and I hope you did. I hope you got

your training. The IFR advances are the accelerated rating in that plane. That might be a little

you own it. So maybe one of the bigger costs is taking care of

trying to ward this the way way. Learning IFR in a skyhawk, for example,

and many of them are still six packs, you know, non-glass, and then transitioning to IFR in this

glass cockpit airplane, just a big difference. Yes. Very big difference. In the automation levels

and the functionality of the screens and how much information is available to you,

I hope you got your training in that. If you didn't spend some time with it with an instructor

again with your instrument rating and go do all the things. The practice approaches,

a flight review type of event, what's somebody in your airplane with your screens so that you're

an expert in your craft, your field, your plane makes a big difference. Right. That fair? Yep.

You said something. Why do you think this is your very emphatic? It's working.

We just see it as just and when I went to that

service event down south of here. It's been a few years ago now, but

it just became very apparent that this group of owners of airplane owners and operators

is very involved and very dedicated to learning, to improving, to growing.

And it shows on frequency. It shows on frequency. And maybe this, you know, I mean, they have a good

chunk of the market of this market, right? And so maybe that's there. Some of that happening in

that. That's just more of the exposure that, but I just find frequently, and I think other

controllers would echo this, that that general group of owners. It's not everyone.

You get, you know, the random ones, but they're in tune. They're paying attention. They,

they have awareness. I don't know. I just, I just have good things to say about it. I love that

the company does that. And again, we're not sponsored by them or anything. We just,

I just like what they're doing.

All right, we do our best to respond to support feedback and let you know when you'll be on

upcoming show, a.g. anything before the intermission, before episode two today.

I do not closing out episode 425 of opposing bases air traffic talk, Romeo Hotel.

And alpha golf. Goodbye, everyone.

Opposing bases is a listener supported ad-free weekly podcast.

The views expressed on the show do not reflect the opinions or official positions

of the FAA or Penguin Airlines. Episodes are for entertainment purposes only,

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Yeah,