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If Bitcoin was really dying, why are the biggest financial institutions on earth doubling down on it?
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And why does it seem to die every four years and then come back stronger?
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Welcome to Should I Invest in Bitcoin, making Bitcoin simple for millennials
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serious about growing their wealth. Whether you're on the fence about it or just starting your
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Bitcoin journey so you can secure your financial future, even in a system where working hard
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never seems to be enough. I'm Miles Dylan, let's get into it this week.
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Every time when the price drops 30 or 40%, the headlines come out, Bitcoin is dead,
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it's going to zero, the bubble is burst. And if you're new to Bitcoin, that's not just noise,
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that's kind of stressful, especially if you bought recently and you're down.
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So today I'm sitting down with my friend Gary from the Bitcoin and Me podcast to unpack this
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properly, not with hype, not with just buy more Bitcoin, bro, but with honesty.
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We're going to talk about what people really mean when they say Bitcoin is dead,
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what actually matters beneath the price and how to handle the emotional side of volatility
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without becoming toxic or delusional. Hey, everyone, so with my friend Gary,
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while we're coming friends, I think, and starting to get to know each other through Bitcoin really.
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This episode is to discuss one of the things I hear very often, particularly at this time
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of the market cycle when the price is down. People say, oh, Bitcoin's dead.
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And then the FT will come out with a new article saying Bitcoin is so many dollars higher than
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it should ever be because it should really be at zero. From your perspective, is Bitcoin going to die?
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Is it going to go to zero? And how do we talk to people who are not into Bitcoin?
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Or maybe they've just invested into Bitcoin and their stress because they're down 30%, 40%
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on their initial investment? How do we combat this thing saying Bitcoin has died?
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Because if you just got into it, you might be thinking, oh my gosh, it's going to die.
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Yeah, hi, Miles. Thanks for having me on. And yeah, I would definitely consider you a friend with
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meh face as a group of little life. Exchange quite a few conversations. So, yeah, you're definitely
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one of my Bitcoin buddies. Yeah, Bitcoin's going to zero. Bitcoin's dead. If you've been around
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long enough and you've been around longer than most, history repeats itself, which means mainstream
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media have said it so many times before. Completely accept if you're new to Bitcoin, then hearing that
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must be pretty scary because you can see it in what a lot of people perceive to be trusted media
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outlets, whether that's on BBC or the FT or whatever it may be. And you think, well, it's saying that
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it must be, there must be an element of truth to it. Maybe Bitcoin is going to go to zero. Maybe
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it is dead. And let's be completely transparent about this. We shouldn't be in an echo chamber,
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and there are risks to Bitcoin. But right now, there are far fewer risks than there are reasons to
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be cheerful. And let's be completely clear that the narrative of Bitcoin is dead is only relating
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to price. That's what all of these mainstream media or clickbait people on YouTube or someone who's
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trying to shield something else away from Bitcoin is a Bitcoin's dead. What they don't mean,
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Bitcoin's dead or Bitcoin's dying, what they mean is the price has gone down a lot. It's going to
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keep going down. But the hash rate is, if you look at things like hash rate, if you look at
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network adoption, if you look at the fact that BlackRock introduced an ETF, they're not shutting
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that down. There are so many positive things in Bitcoin. The biggest issue at the moment,
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if you want to call it an issue, is the price isn't where it was back in October.
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Yeah. Yeah. I think that the BlackRock thing is a big one for me. And isn't the BlackRock ETF?
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I think it's the most profitable ETF or one of the most successful ETFs that they've ever launched.
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Yeah. And as far as you can add, that is the opposite to Bitcoin is dead. I don't know whether
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you're in the position of like, you like the big institutions coming in or not and there's
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a split between Bitcoin as well. I think that's good or not. But that is a bit of a factor that shows
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if the largest financial institutions in the world are pummeling full on into Bitcoin,
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I think they're launching another product, BlackRock launching another product soon,
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which is a Bitcoin related thing. I don't know what that is. I think they're trying to build yield
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of it. Okay. Yeah. You can have a Bitcoin ETF that delivers some kind of yield by doing,
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I don't know, covered calls or so. I don't quite know. I've not got enough on it much.
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But still, I think if BlackRock are not looking at the headlines from the FT and BBC and CNN,
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saying Bitcoin is dead, they're not looking at that for you and all, no, we should probably close
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our ETF if FT say Bitcoin is dead. They don't care. They're just cracking on like launching the
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product. Oh, I think I saw that they launched a huge advertising campaign in the US,
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billboards, promoting their ETF, the Bitcoin ETF. So Bitcoin is dead. Why are they pushing it so much?
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It doesn't tie in with the narrative. And I think what you're saying is every cycle it comes
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round and the price goes down and it does go down. I think we are heading into crypto winter,
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Bitcoin bear market. Are you into that? Do you subscribe to the four year cycle theory? We
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you started to feel like we're not into the four year cycle when we saw the price going up in
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October. What's your vibe on that? I think when you look at the history, it suggests there's
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definitely something in that. But I mean, I think increasingly, I've not been in Bitcoin for as long
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as you, but I've been around enough to know that these things are cyclical. And frankly,
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I'm humble enough to say I've got no idea. What the next, there's reasons to think nothing's
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really changed. And the whole meme of this time is different, which always gets completely
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rebuffed because it isn't different. It's just not exactly the same. But it could be. I mean,
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there are things that could happen, whether it's, I don't know, America deciding they're going to
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sell some of their gold and invest that into having a Bitcoin strategic reserve. Something like
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that would be, is bound to push the price. But it's all of these narratives are just very
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difficult to try and unpick. And you can spend too much time trying to second guess, whereas in fact,
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if you can build your conviction at times like this, you'll thank yourself in whether it's six months,
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18 months, three, four, five years, certainly in 10 years. But, you know, yes.
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What do you think causes Bitcoin to not go to zero in terms of the price? Do you think that there
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are enough people like me and you who, if we saw the price at $10,000, I mean, that would really
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shake my whole world view. I think if we hit $10,000, which I just don't think we're going to get there.
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But I would say now, if Bitcoin hit $10,000, I'd be trying to buy as much as I could.
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I mean, I've been buying recently, but at $10,000, which is not zero, would we all be thinking,
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oh my gosh, are we still going to be buying at that price point? Are there, does it shake out
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the believers or what holding it from not going to that price? I think, well, even if you take it
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further and say, could it conceptually go to zero? I know it couldn't because I know lots of people
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that have got buy orders for 21 million Bitcoin when it gets to one cent. So literally can't get
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to zero, but we shouldn't, I don't think we should be flippant about that because to someone that
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maybe was listening to your podcast or other content in September last year and decided to buy
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a thousand pounds worth of Bitcoin, that Bitcoin they bought for a thousand pounds is probably now worth
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600 pounds. So I think for people that are relatively new into the space, we, I don't think
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Bitcoin is always understanding enough for the people that have recently joined and just
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decided to invest. And I think we have more responsibility to help those people through the
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emotional turmoil of it, rather than just playing stay humble stacks at buy more, you know, because it
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that kind of conversation starts to reinforce the fake narrative that it's a Ponzi scheme,
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it's just insiders who just keep buying it. And you know, we need more people, for Bitcoin to become
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what we want it to be, we need the whole world to embrace it eventually. So we do, I think we
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have a responsibility to to help and support people, but that is education. It's not, it's not
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hope and it's not that, you know, don't worry, I'm going back to all time highs. I wrote a little
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post on LinkedIn saying, all I can see at the moment is, is other guys in Bitcoin saying,
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hold on to your coins, don't be wet, don't sell your Bitcoin. And I wrote a little thing say,
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I'm properly in Bitcoin. I'm not selling anything, but I would be lying if I said, I'm not stressed out
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by the price going down, or it doesn't affect my amount of times I check the price every day,
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just hoping that it might boost back over 100K. And I can be like, wow, it just feels like a nice
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psychological price to feel like your Bitcoin is over 100. It's easy to calculate how much
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you own as well when it's at that sort of price. And it's so weird, the comments that I got back,
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no one was like saying, yeah, me too. And I was like, shut up, I'm sure there are loads of people who
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are feeling the same thing as me. No, I was saying, oh yeah, and I totally agree, well, I'm saying it.
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I just had loads of comments saying, don't be a pussy, you should be buying more, like, you're
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going to be the Bitcoin guy. I'm like, yes, I am the Bitcoin guy, like, don't worry, I'm not selling
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it. And I said that in the post, but people were just saying, grow some, and it's so male toxic,
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I'm like, guys, what are you doing? We're scared people off. Yeah, completely agree. I think
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they've long been around, the more you can emotionally handle the volatility. And I think
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again, it's probably the wrong time to say that October, the sixth would have been the right time
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to have this conversation. But, you know, people can get emotional when it goes up as well as
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when it goes down. And they're very different options, but you can get overexcited and think about
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retiring and, you know, moving to a, moving to a Caribbean island. And then suddenly within
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three months, you're thinking, I'm going to be working till I'm 70. But I think realistically,
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what price does for most people, even those that really have absolute conviction, it just
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restores your individual narrative and your individual conviction, because it's like, well,
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I know there's volatility, but at some point, it does need to keep going up, you know, I don't
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mean that to be now. I'm not selling, but the longer it stays down or the further it keeps going down,
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the further away it feels from the the level of conviction and the belief that I've got and
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where this asset is going over time. I don't do think it really humbles you as well. Like,
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I try to act cool or not be too Billy Big Bulls when the price is high, but I know inside my head,
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I think I'm really clever when the price is up. When the price comes down, oh no, I don't want to
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say too much stuff, but it has helped me press through. And I think I did a couple of episodes,
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you know, the start of this year for this podcast, where I had to really push on and say, no,
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do I believe in this enough to still talk about it in a way which is by Bitcoin? This is a great
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kind to buy it. And yeah, it did. It's almost like therapy making the episodes for myself. I'm
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talking to myself and saying, no, this is still a buy, nothing's changed other than the price in
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dollars. I think you speak so well on it and you're very measured in the way you talk about things,
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probably that's based on your profession as well, the work you do. I was going to just quickly say
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on that, I think the age that people are at and not just the length of their time in Bitcoin,
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but the position they're in within their life. So someone who's 1820 earning minimum weight and
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stacking sats, this is a fantastic opportunity because they're now, if they haven't changed their
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DCA, they're buying far more Bitcoin than they thought they could have bought, you know,
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putting it in place six months ago. However, you know, if you're 60 and you've been buying Bitcoin
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regularly and you thought, right, I'm turning 60 this year, you know, there's no way it's going to
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finish below 100K. I'm, you know, I can then sell some to improve my life. Now's my time. Quit
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work, use some of the Bitcoin I've worked hard to save up. You know, for someone like that,
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a drawdown that we've seen is going to be much more emotionally draining and actually affect
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their life potentially. But yeah, I guess gross, gross some hodel narrative that comes out,
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that really toxic maxi stuff. It's just not helpful for those people at all. It isn't
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the very effective. At the same time, you know, we'll, as Bitcoiners, we'll try and call out the
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shitcoin as you say the same thing about their, the crypto that they, that they love. So it just
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makes us sound like them, which I think we're so much better than. There are so many credible people
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in Bitcoin. It's unbelievable. The likes of Elin Audens and Larry LePard, or you can just list off,
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you know, dozens of people and from so many different backgrounds, that should give,
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give us confidence as well. I haven't yet met a Bitcoin other that I wouldn't want to spend time
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with talking about anything that Elin Bitcoin really. Yeah, let's give me. Gary ran brilliant
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conference last year in October that I came to. It was so good. I loved it, mate. I had such a good
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time. I met loads of people. I'm in touch with probably five or six people that I'm now in touch
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with all the time who, who I met at the conference. And you've kindly invited me to come and speak
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at the next thing you're organising. Do you want to say about that? Yeah, yeah. So we, we did a
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conference in Bereson Edmunds last year. It was actually September, but yeah, it was in September.
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We're doing on the 22nd of May, which any good Bitcoiner would know is, is Pete today. We're
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trying to basically be the go-to place in the UK for Bitcoiners on the 22nd of May. It's a Friday
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so if anyone working, probably have to take the day off if they want to come for the day event,
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but we're going to host free to attend meetups through the day in various coffee shops, pubs,
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restaurants, whatever, most of whom will actually accept Bitcoin. And again, it might be that we've
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got a Bitcoin artist who will sit up a gallery. We've got Robin Thatcher, the Bitcoin accountant,
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who will do a drop-in. Come and talk to me about tax session and those sorts of things, as well as
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just general Bitcoin chats, meetups, sitting at a coffee with other people that you do know,
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whether you've never met before, that then become friends like you've just said. So that's all
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during the day. Then in the evening, we're hiring the Guildhall, which is just a phenomenal,
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one of the oldest municipal buildings in the UK. I think it dates back to like 11th,
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1200. It's incredible building. And we're going to have a pizza truck, serving pizza.
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We're going to arrange a bar where it will be stocked up. And the bar and the pizza are included
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within the price of the ticket. And then within the Guildhall, we're going to have panel discussions
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around Bitcoin as a medium of exchange, which as you say, we're really pleased that you're going
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to be part of that. And we're going to have Bitcoin merchants. So you can spend Bitcoin on
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stuff from people who may get and sell for Bitcoin. They have meet new friends, catch up with
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old ones, and listen to some great panel discussions.
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Mate, so it's 22nd of May, Friday, 22nd? Yeah, that's right.
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Yeah. And I'll put a link in the description for where to get tickets and where to find everything.
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Yeah, I mean, it's 39 quid, which is like, for a pizza and a couple of beers,
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you're kind of getting close to that. So we do the same with the conference. We don't,
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the other guy that helps me out with it, Jace, the two of us do it basically just to try and
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contribute to UK Bitcoin. Got the love of Bitcoin. Yeah, we don't make anything out of it.
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And that was never the intention. So yeah, it should be good.
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Thanks, Gary. Yeah, I'll leave a link in everything. And thanks so much. Bitcoin's not going to
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zero. And if it was, either of us thought it was, we wouldn't be planning to go to something
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in a couple of months' time where we're going to be spending our Bitcoin wish. We wouldn't be
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able to do that if it wasn't zero. So, um, actually, there was one other thing I was just going to
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talk about it, which is when things actually die, they never get announced. So think of like the
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beta max video record. Yeah, yeah. No one ever set dead. They waited till like 15, 20 years later
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and said, what happened to beat you? Oh, yeah. And think of how many cryptos have died,
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like the shit coins. No one actually never announces. Again, it's the main media trying to say Bitcoin
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is dead or Bitcoin's dying. Things that are dying never get announced. It's clickbait, mate. The
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bathe bottom line is swear, it's just clickbait. And it's clickbait on the way up as well when Bitcoin
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gets through an all-time high. They also say I could never last. This would be the last all-time
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high. And when it goes down is clickbait as well. It's just so I checked out of reading the news
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a really long time ago. In COVID, I just got fed up and was like, this is not helpful. I didn't
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even know when the lockdowns would be enlisted and shut. Someone had to tell me about it because I
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just switched everything off from it. Just like, I'm just going to go out once a day and try and be
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a reasonably good citizen and not do anything silly because I just felt like you cannot
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understand what's happening in real life based on the headlines that you're reading in new.
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So really, the bottom line for me is just clickbait because they want someone to read their article.
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Hey, everyone. We are having a Zoom call together with other listeners on this podcast
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and me on Sunday, the 8th of March at 8pm, British time, Greenwich mean time. We're going to be
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discussing stuff around Bitcoin. Questions you have that I don't address in the podcast
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and just generally get to know each other and hang out and address some of your questions that
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you might have about Bitcoin that I don't normally follow up in the podcast. It's a deeper stuff
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that you might not even hear about. So if you would like to join that call, send me an email and
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y'all will add you to the list and I'll send you the Zoom link. 8pm, Greenwich mean time, Sunday,