OverDrive - March 13, 2026 - Hour 1 - Rob Ray

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Alright, here we go overdrive, often running TSN 1050 on the TSN app, your home smart speaker up on TSN 4, up on YouTube Live, Brian Haysio, Doug Jeffoneal, Jamie Noodles McClennan.

It's going on today.

What's going on?

How are we feeling about last night Haysie B?

Me and Noodles were on the panel and we haven't got to collect your thoughts today.

We haven't spoken to you.

Are you united about what?

We left him alone.

I've been waiting for four o'clock.

Me too.

Me too.

Me too.

Go ahead, bro.

Man, oh man.

I almost forgot they won after the game.

I was going to say,

positive Friday, they won a game last night.

Are we supposed to be happy with the fact that the Leafs won and Matthew scored for the first time in 12 games?

And you know, I saw you guys with that stupid belt last night claim and I was thinking it's nothing.

Nothing but that thing.

It's disgusting and gross things all over it.

I brought that home for three or four days.

I know what you did.

You had like a Stanley Cup party in the backyard and brought people over to take picks with the belt.

And there was a million people around that thing.

You think of that pathetic?

I do.

I do.

I do.

Like actually welcome that request to come on over the house and see the quiz belt from TSN.

You think people are dying to spend their time doing that?

I don't know.

I don't think so.

There was a lot of fingerprints and weird things going on.

I know, but I've been on there once.

I've won it one time.

I love how I'm the one being accused.

I was getting more texts and emails and messages about that than anything else.

Dude, we didn't do anything.

Dothi's the one that said,

Hayes is a gross pig.

This thing was at his house.

And there's fingerprints and gross stuff all over this thing.

It is gross.

We didn't.

Well, actually noodles.

I think took it last night.

But the game was so bad at the start.

We were like, I don't know, nobody wanted the belt.

Well, obviously we're burying the lead here in terms of what happened.

And we don't have any news yet on, you know, the status of Austin Matthews.

And he's gone for an MRI this afternoon.

And I'm sure they'll, I'm sure they haven't answered by now.

I would guess they're relatively soon.

And they're traveling down to Buffalo.

They play the Sabers tomorrow night.

I think last night, what that highlighted is, you know, what's always obviously been wrong.

And why the answer has been in front of us for so long,

that this team is not capable of winning with the leadership that they have.

And unfortunately, that includes Matthews as well.

Because, you know, I don't think he would have been flying in with his gloves off last night,

either if the, you know, Skate was on another foot.

You know, if that was Neelander, they got hit.

Austin was not dropping his gloves and flying in.

It's just not in their DNA.

It's not who they are.

I think it's fitting that Neelander and Riley were both on the ice with them,

because those are the two longest standing leaves.

Riley's been here for 12, 13 years.

Willie's been here for a decade.

And, you know, the reality is, this year, what has,

there's always been kind of two groups that have gone at it when discussing the leaves.

And I think this applies to every hockey team and the assessment of every hockey team

and every fan base.

There's really three groups.

The third group, though, everyone's in.

And it's that you have to have good goal-tuning.

No debating there.

No one fights over that.

It's like this group over there, the Venn diagram right in the middle.

Got to have good goal-tuning.

Okay, we all can see Venn diagram.

Yes.

Let me explain where I'm going with this.

It's tribal in nature.

There's two tribes.

The first one on this side is you got to have skill,

got to have talent, got to have depth, got to have coaching, you know,

possession this, possession that.

All of it incredibly valuable and all of it absolutely necessary.

That category has dropped off this year.

That's why, in large part, they're in the position they're in.

They're not as talented.

They're not as deep.

They can't move the puck.

They can't skate as well.

They don't get, you know, their system doesn't really apply to what they have.

So that category has fallen off.

What hasn't fallen off.

What has been exposed that has just been consistent the whole time throughout the Matthews era

is the other tribe yells about culture and grit and camaraderie in the room

and sticking up for each other and being tough and being willing to take on the fight.

Yep.

And that has always been an issue and it was highlighted last night.

And it's why they will never win.

They can't ever win with this group because they don't have it.

And they never have had it.

And you need all of these categories collectively to win.

Right?

Not one's not more important than the other.

Or large portions of all the categories.

Absolutely.

And I'm talking about winning a Stanley Cup.

I'm not saying get into the playoffs because they have been able to get into the playoffs for 10 years

because that one category was full.

Talent, depth, skating, puck movement, offense, defense.

They had it all.

Coaching the system.

Everything worked.

So it didn't matter about this other category because that was only exposed when they got to game seven

or game six or when they got into a fight and they realized we don't have it.

So what has been exposed this year is the talent that everything's fallen off.

The other part has always been an issue.

And it just was highlighted last night.

And if you want to win a Stanley Cup, you need all of it.

You can't skill your way to it.

You can't tough your way to it.

You need all of it.

And I think in a weird way, even though they won the game,

I think that was what really was determined last night.

Many people have known it five, six, seven, eight years.

Some people have known it for a year or two.

Some people have been intentionally blind to it because they don't want to believe it.

Denial.

Denial, exactly.

But that's what was on display last night.

They don't have it.

They never have had it.

Anyone acting surprised?

You're fooling yourself.

You're not fooling anyone else, right?

No one can be surprised by the way that played out last night after he got hit.

I actually felt bad for William D. Lander when he said he didn't see it

and he didn't know what was going on.

He saw it.

Sorry, Jamie.

The video is absurd.

There's a shot of him looking at it.

And then putting his arm up, Joe, see if he can try to find his vis.

He puts his arm up to the ref like call a penalty.

Yes.

You know what?

The one thing watching that, like Morgan Riley came out afterwards and said,

that's on me.

I saw it was delayed but he goes, you're trying to watch the play but he goes,

I needed to be better.

Morgan Riley manned up last night and said, I needed to do something.

I didn't.

That's on me.

William D. Lander, you know what?

He's a great guy.

You hear lots of great stories about him and all that.

He said, yeah, I guess I should have done something or could have.

He still didn't go like, that's my leader.

That's my guy.

I played ten years with this guy.

He's laying there.

I would have had to be held back by the refs.

And it's not in his nature.

What does it matter what they say after the game?

Morgan Riley included.

I'd get it.

But at least you know what?

You disarmed people with the truth.

I felt that I was Brian.

I own third period.

It's like, also now it's rock him, sock him, hockey in the third period.

Someone must have chewed them and said, are you guys safe?

Are you guys serious right now?

But it just gets back to the point you talked about matching,

pairing the skill with the will.

I saw William D. Lander running around, trying to hit people.

This guy is a big strong dude.

And for all the pencil necks that write me and say,

lay off a knee-lander.

He's the only guy that can dangle and score goals.

Very true.

One of the most talented players in the league.

But come playoff time.

Imagine how good an effective he would be if he was intense and physical.

And I get it.

You don't have to run people through the building.

And some nights you just don't have that element.

But if you don't, you're not good.

We've seen it in the past.

You just talked about it.

You can't go out there and beat a team in game seven,

skilling it or poaching for pucks.

It's just a level of intensity.

And Jamie uses the term a lot when we're referring to different hockey teams around the NHL.

He describes them as playing for keeps.

Whether it's individual players and teams.

And that's all Craig Barubi wants from these guys.

For everybody saying, oh, the Barubi system, they dumped them.

The Craig Barubi wants the team to compete and play for keeps.

And when you do that and you add on the skill that some of these guys have,

you should have success more nights than not.

But if you just want to throw the skill out there, no chance, man.

I've had it last night like I have many times.

If you're just going to go out there and play score a goal,

you'll get your ass handed to you in a tough game.

But if you want to go out there and compete and play like the standard level of intensity in the NHL,

which is like physical stuff.

And like it's, you look at the teams.

If that goodness did that, I said it last night.

If he did it to Tampa Bay or the Florida Panthers,

and I'm not over exaggerating by saying this,

Goudus would go to the penalty box without teeth.

Well, it would have been all heartbreaking loose.

And that's those two teams, just in recent memory,

but you can go back to any winning team in history.

There's a hundred years of evidence on this that you, again, you need both.

You need the talent, the skill, the goal-tending, the coaching.

But if you don't have the camaraderie, the trigger that goes off,

that I'm not going to accept this because this is a game of intimidation.

That's what doesn't show up on a stat sheet.

And I understand it's difficult to really evaluate.

It's difficult to project because we're talking intangibles.

We're talking about the wiring of a human being,

whether on the ice or on the field of play.

Well, you talked about camaraderie, Brian.

How much camaraderie does it show about the locker room?

If you're teammate, your captain gets need by it.

One of the dirtiest players in the league,

and all of you just stand around.

Where's the camaraderie there?

There must not be anything.

And that's where the mirror comes into play of what does it say about all of them?

What does it say about Matthews?

What does it say about his standing on this?

And ultimately, he's the victim of this hit.

It was a brutal hit.

He should be suspended for a long time in my opinion.

He's not going to be.

This is what has been established with just the DNA of these players.

Matthews, Mariner, when he was here.

He was here for nine years, Neelander, Tavaris, Riley.

I've said it 15,000 times on this show.

They're all wired the same way.

And you guys have been in the rooms.

You can filter through everyone out, in which they have.

Everyone else out.

And then every other position has been filled for the last 10 years.

Every other defenseman, the goalies, coaches, GMs,

every other player up front, the 13th forward, 14th forwarding.

You bring in Marlow, Thornton, Simmons.

You bring in Reeves.

You bring in a million different guys.

The way you operate is established by your best four or five players.

That's effectively how it works.

All of that stuff you just mentioned, Brian.

You have a broader culture, the way your team,

like they work, and they do everything.

Your four or five best players generally have the most say

of what goes on around the locker room, and how things are done.

When I was the younger guy in the National Hockey League,

I was around.

Ron Francis, Kevin DeNine, Gary Roberts, Keith Primo, Ray Shepard,

Steven Chason.

There was none of that.

You had no choice with nonsense, or just not being the camaraderie or whatever.

You would not allow it.

Brian, I thought you laid it out perfectly.

You need a mixture of both.

When one isn't there, it exposes the other.

To me, that's what was exposed last night,

is whether you want to use, and I know there's a lazy word,

culture, or determination, or fight back, whatever, DNA.

That's the type of thing where it gets exposed on something like that.

I felt bad for Austin Matthews.

I really did.

It's a bad hit.

Now, I hope that he's all right.

I woke up this morning going, I hope that's a Charlie horse,

because he's built like a mousse.

He's such a strong man.

I'm hoping maybe you've got a Charlie horse out of it,

but again, I'm not a doctor.

I'm not going to speculate.

But I think it's the bigger picture.

The sky's laying there and needs help to get off the ice.

Brandon Carlos, six foot eight, he seems like.

He's a monster.

He was on the ice.

I'm not, again, you can point it,

Neelander and Riley, they were out there,

and Hayes, you were making a better point.

That's nine years encapsulated.

But when you're on the ice and you see a guy,

it should be a no-gozo.

And that's Austin Matthews should be a no-fly zone.

He's a star player.

Don't even think about it.

You're a flying player.

Your reaction should be the same.

Exactly.

That was the first thing I thought of.

And if you look at it, because we've been so focused on Matthews going down,

look at Radco-Gudas.

He gets up expecting somebody coming towards him.

Like, he got up, like, going, I'm going to,

I got one in here.

Somebody's coming for me.

And he was like, OK, that's got me.

A lot like when, like, we referenced at the other day,

when Lou Cheach ran over Miller,

the Buffalo, and Lou Cheach got up thinking,

I'm in trouble here.

Like, you know, someone, no one came.

You know, no one, no one addressed it.

And that became this existential issue down in Buffalo

that they're just getting over now on Lindy Ruff's second tour.

Like, that was 10 years ago.

And now, again, it's, it's, it's not to be overstated.

It's not, it's not.

And now they're going to try to prove it.

You know, and that's the problem when you're,

then it's opposed to move.

Yeah, it's fake.

It's fake.

It's not real.

Everyone knows it knows it's posed.

We were sitting there on the panel last night,

and I said, guess what's going to happen in the third period?

Max Domey's going to go and do something

because he's going to show that he cares.

And I get it.

But I mean, in the, in the, you know,

God, their guys are going to, it's Jake McCabe,

but this gloves on at the end of the game, punch in somebody.

I was like, okay, like, I get it.

And Craig Barubi, I wonder if he went in and peeled the,

the pain off the walls.

Like, his post game interview was very measured.

And he was, they was scary.

He was black.

Like, he knows it.

Yeah, he knows it.

But that's, that's like coach says,

I, like, you got to have something happen at the time.

That's, that's as embarrassed as a coach could be,

as far as a comment.

When you say things like it was so kind of beating around the bush

because he didn't want to cause a, you know, what storm?

But he was like, you know, we believe in here

that something should have happened basically right away.

We wanted, we would like four guys in there

and you almost see him shake his head.

Well, let's play it.

Let's, this is Craig Barubi asked about the situation

post game last night.

I mean, obviously, we should have had four guys in there

doing some about it.

But it didn't happen then.

But I thought they responded in the third.

It was, you know, a good response there.

But, you know, we all would have liked everybody

to get in there right away.

Did you have any conversations with the team

on the venture and the intermission of responding?

Yes.

I did.

Sort of the team.

Yeah.

So, you know, he, he, he, you know,

you know, he, you know, how he's wired

and how he would have reacted clearly

of what he's looking for.

I mean, it brings us back to having him

on part of the season.

I remember asking him, you know,

how do you think your teams can respond

to, you know, some heavy teams in the division?

And, you know, it's, because we keep saying,

like, oh, it's not the same as it used to be.

And yeah, it's not the same as the 80s and 90s.

But the core elements of the game have not changed.

You know, watch that Buffalo Tampa game.

Like, it's still a physical game.

It's a game of intimidation.

It's a game of, you know,

the messaging being a two-way message.

One to the other team and the other parts of the league.

But more so, the messaging internally.

That, like, ever, you always,

you go over those boards.

You've got people that have your back.

And, you know, that, that's,

again, I, I, they're not going to play us this year.

There's clearly personnel issues

and they've, they've got to get more speed

and talent and puck movement.

Like, all that kind of stuff has to be addressed.

It didn't change because of last night.

Right.

But to me, you know, that was almost the last stop on the train.

Like, anyone that's still saying,

wow, this, this core group can win a championship.

I just don't see it.

I just don't see it.

I don't think they can.

Can they get back to the playoffs?

Yes.

Because they, that, you just need talent

in many ways to get to the playoffs.

But to win, the book is out there, man.

It's been written.

It was written by the Panthers,

written by Tampa.

It's been written by teams for 100 years.

Yes.

For 100 years, man.

It's, it's very simple stuff.

And it's tough to do.

You know, it's, it, not everyone's wired that way.

But that's the, the core of the organization is, is that it's.

So if you're, Brian, if you're, what do we, do we have 15 games left?

It's called 15.

Yeah.

Let's get the act back.

Because I've been,

16 games.

16 games left.

If you are in the organization from Keith Pelley to keep,

to Brad tree living and down,

this is an evaluation of who you want to keep moving forward.

And I know there's question marks if,

if Keith Pelley is going to keep Brad tree living, you know,

Craig Bruby, all of that.

But if you're doing an assessment,

there's a lot of guys in that room,

whether they're comfortable with a contract or not,

who should be playing hard for their Toronto Maple Leafs life.

Maybe not their NHL life.

But they're Toronto Maple Leafs life,

seeing if you want to be a piece of the team moving forward,

or a team, a piece that gets moved out in the off season

because they need to change the whole makeup

and the culture of everything, like that's.

But you can't do it noodles.

I'll stop you there.

Okay.

I'm talking about the core pieces.

I don't care about the third.

Yeah.

To answer your question,

can you, can they make some moves

and have a miraculous off season to be a playoff team next year?

Yeah.

Yeah.

They cannot win like this.

They can't win with the soul of this team.

It's been established for 10 years.

So they can't define a championship.

Define the soul.

Four players then for you?

Yes.

Effectively.

Five, like Mitch isn't here anymore.

Right.

But it's, you know, like,

yeah, the five or six guys,

they're wired the way they're wired.

They're great players, great talent.

You know, they can light up a regular season,

make the playoffs.

They can, you know,

but when the rubber hits the road,

and that's the thing about like the biggest moments

in their history,

the game sevens,

that's not about coaching anyone.

The manager can't do anything, right?

They've done enough to put you in a position where it's,

it's a war.

You've got a one game more.

Who's got, who's got what it takes to get across the line?

And they just don't.

And it permeates the rest of the group.

Again, they've reworked,

they've moved out every other player.

Every five, six, seven, eight times over the third line center,

the fourth line, the third, you know,

the third defense,

the fourth defense,

when the coach is,

they've turned over everything else a million times,

hoping that it will mask,

I think the core issue that they know has been here the whole time.

Exactly.

And that's the problem.

So you can, you can sell me on them being a playoff team.

That's the separate conversation.

Yeah.

So me that with these core pieces here,

they can win a Stanley Cup.

So, so they can't,

basically saying that a massive move has to happen the off season.

If you want to win a,

if the plan is a cup,

then I,

I've kind of established after last night,

I think you just got to restart the whole thing.

So then there's two players that you really circle,

because Morgan Riley is,

is a really good player,

but he, I don't think he's a superstar.

So, you know,

and John Tavares is 35 years old.

So there's two players, 88 and 34.

And what you're saying is,

if you don't believe that those two in a five fabric built around them

can win,

then you've got to do something with them.

What do you think they answered?

Do you think they can?

What?

Do you think you were a Stanley Cup with?

I haven't seen it,

but I also, we got to stop talking about a Stanley Cup.

I know.

Watch these guys the last eight games.

But that's,

I understand that.

Oh, but that's what I'm saying.

That's right.

We're talking about two weeks ago.

What's the sense of like trying to reboot the game?

They're trying to reboot this thing.

They're so far away.

But like even before that you just brought up all these points

that they don't have the it thing as far as the intangible,

which we kind of all known for a long time.

So it's like,

why do you want to,

why do you want to pull a Boston Bruins on this thing?

Like why?

That's just going back to the fill in Dion era

where you're just trying to put patchwork on something

and trick yourself into thinking that you're an actual contender

when you're not.

So don't do it.

Why do it?

Well,

if somebody upstairs,

if Keith Pelley thinks that that's the answer

that he's going to make a big statement

and give the fans say,

just like he did when he came in here,

we're not,

I'm not here to sell jerseys.

We're the, you know,

premier brand in the game

and we're here about championships.

If he thinks that just rebooting this thing to win one

is an avenue to go down,

he's sadly mistaken.

I agree.

But I think that word,

I think his argument would be,

and it would not be sincere

if it's were here to win a champ.

Well, do anything to win a championship.

If you can't stomach the reality

and face it in front of you,

then you're not willing to do anything to pursue it.

If he comes out and says this team will be championship caliber

within one to two seasons,

he's flat out lying.

Right.

Well, it might be able to get back into a competitive spot

and make the playoffs or something.

You know, that'll be the argument.

But that would be the old teacher's plan arrow.

We just got to get in.

That's selling jerseys and selling tickets

and making the playoffs.

That's not a championship.

Well, you know,

an obsession with winning.

It's an obsession with being competitive.

It does start with the word culture.

You know, you create it and say,

and who's leading it?

And who, you know,

what are you establishing in that room

that it's non-negotiable?

And this is how we're going to play.

This is what we need.

And it starts with your top players.

And that's, you know,

you look at other teams

that have established that.

And then guys just buy into it.

For years, I remember,

you know,

drum again, I went to Boston.

He said the culture was already set there.

Because Zadano Chara,

Patrice Bergeron,

you know, into Brad Martian,

all of those players,

they were already set.

And now they'd won the luxury of winning.

But, you know,

you just plug into a culture that that organization had set.

For many years.

Chara, you know,

Chara had set the template

of how that team works,

how they prepare,

you know,

what is expected out of that group

within that dressing room?

That's the something.

And that comes back to that word.

And I hate saying it because I think it's just a buzzword.

But it is a true thing.

It's an intangible

that the analytics people don't agree with as much.

But it is true there.

The culture of a team

means a lot.

You step into a dressing room.

You have to conform to the culture of that room.

And who's leading it?

And that's something that might have to be looked at.

Yeah.

On top of talent.

Well, you've got all the other things in prospects.

And like,

you read out the buckets.

You read out the buckets.

Yeah, Craig just put up on TSN is top five

50 prospects in the game right now.

It's not one leaf on there.

So, you know,

like they're,

again, they're seven from the bottom.

50?

50 top prospects in the end,

like outside of the NHL.

And Danford didn't make that.

I don't believe so.

I mean,

let me go back and look at it.

But I don't believe I saw it, Danford.

He's got T's again,

like the top,

which is pretty cool.

Again,

number one is on his list.

He's got,

you know,

that's all the way down.

But I,

I did not,

I was studying earlier.

I did not see a maple leaf on there.

So now that's Craig's opinion.

You know,

the least may come back and say,

well, we'll challenge that with this,

that or the other.

Right.

But in Craig's opinion,

they don't have a prospect in the top 50.

They don't have the first drop picked the next two years.

I mean,

it's other than that.

It's depressing.

It's tough.

Well, I hope Matthews is all right.

Of course.

And it was a gutless hit.

And he should be suspended for a long time.

How that's not an in-person hearing to me is outrageous.

For a guy with his history.

Yeah.

Like he's been suspended.

How many times?

Well,

like for me,

that's a six seven.

Yeah, it's a phone.

It'll be a three game suspension.

His last suspension was 2019.

So technically,

he's not a repeat offender.

But you can look in the history of the player.

And that's what you don't understand.

You go for the knee and you blow a guy's knee out

or whatever the hell happened.

And it's a phone.

I just don't understand that.

It's tough to follow.

It is tough.

But that's the reality.

All right.

Johnny was there last night.

He'll come up just after five.

We got Rob Ray coming up today.

Yeah.

Rob Ray will join us on the Sabers game tomorrow.

And I, you know, how he responds to what he saw.

Lots to get into with him.

We got Kevin Polar.

We got Canada USA tonight at the World Baseball Classic.

Also, Jose Barrillo is going to get a second opinion on his arm.

You were talking about all the deck fairs.

Not good.

Maybe that's why.

All these elbow inflammation things,

like they needed to get some bodies in there.

Right.

Bieber's not obviously close to being ready.

They're going to take their time with the Savage,

which is the plan.

But that's why you bring Schurzer in.

That's why you sign C's, bring over Ponds,

and stretch him out.

Yeah.

That's the truth.

We're two weeks away from opening day.

So more on that about an hour overdrive continues up on YouTube Live.

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Just a shout out to all the Americans

who want to float the articles out there that the Leafs think

and this was the last draw, Austin Matthews will be returning to the USA.

He's not absolved from all that stuff we were just talking about.

He was one of the main characters.

Right.

He was a part of getting horse-collared by Sherat

and laughing about it and just not responding the same way.

Like he's been a part of all the things that we just talked about.

Yeah.

And listen, I think...

I remember when Sherat and Montreal was just...

He was horse-collared.

I haven't heard it.

Been called that.

Horse-collared.

Yeah, that's exactly what it was.

Yeah, it was.

Listen, you can have, you know...

Gretzky wasn't running in fighting.

You know, like you can have a guy to...

Oh, I get it.

But Wayne was the best player on the ice.

No, and that's the thing.

Yeah.

But my point is, like if you want to fire those articles out, go ahead.

But it's not like during some of these troubling times

when you're watching and it's like that's the response.

It's not like he was the guy busting his ass and finishing every check

and being that guy.

And afterwards, he looked around and said,

man, I'm just looking for some teammates that jump on board with me.

That hasn't been the case.

No, no.

They're all...

Listen, they're all...

They're all wired the same way again.

And that's how they are.

That's the way it goes.

And there is a room for change, I suppose,

and my holding my breath on that, that...

that Neelander and Tavares and that it's going to change.

No, I'm not.

And I'm getting people writing in and saying,

oh, you're putting your reputation on the line

that these guys will never...

Guys, they've been here for 10 years.

So they're going to be in the league for 10 years

and then, like, do you think the OV situation is going to happen?

Who knows?

Maybe you keep Matthews and you get some different guys around...

I don't know.

That's a possibility.

But there's always two extremes, right?

Everybody's like, it's just not going to happen.

And then somebody will pop up and say,

well, Stevie Iserman 1-1 when he was 32.

And Alex O'Betchkin played a long time before he got his...

I don't know, man.

I just don't see it happening as Al's brother would say.

Well, yeah, I mean, and those are individual players, right?

Like, again, you can isolate one.

You can't talk about four or five guys.

You know, they didn't all get to stick around.

Steve Iserman, you know, I guess maybe Lidstrom.

I don't know.

You'd have to go back in the history books to look at that.

But, yeah, I mean, it's...

I just know...

Listen, what we talked about...

If this was 15 years ago,

and that happened at the odd in Buffalo,

I'll tell you who would have had a problem.

Jamie, I only coward away from one situation at the odd

or it might have been in the new building.

Rob Ray was by the bench and he was mouth-on-off at somebody.

And I squirted him with a water bottle.

And I'd literally, like, out of a movie.

I ducked under the bench so he wouldn't see me.

And he's here to talk about it.

Well, now you just told him.

Now you've just been looking for you probably for a long time.

Here he is.

Long time, Saber.

Saber's analyst, Leaf Saber's tomorrow night.

Rob Ray, do you remember being squirted by a water bottle?

Are you number one target?

Jamie's off the list and you're the name of my target target target.

I love it.

As he should be.

It must be fun being down at Buffalo these days.

Yeah, it's a totally different atmosphere, obviously.

The good thing is you're watching these guys having fun again.

And I think for so long they weren't having fun.

They weren't relaxed.

It was too much like work for them.

And now you're having a good time.

You know, I know you can't win every game, but it's...

They're so relaxed and they're having fun.

And being the way it's supposed to be.

And then in turn the people are off the chart.

So it didn't take much to get everybody back on board here.

And they went a few games and the place was going crazy.

It sold out every night.

And you know, the guys are loving it.

There's a lot of guys in that room that are experiencing a crazy crowd for the first time.

And you know, loving every bit of it.

So yeah, everything's good.

So Razor, is there a point in the season where you could call...

We always say it up here, the TSN turning point.

Is there one thing you can point to you that said,

like that helped turn the season around,

or is there the combination of several things?

No, I think it was...

We were on a six-game trip.

We started off in Chile and then went to Winnipeg and Caldery.

And both all three of those games we lost.

And it wasn't good.

There was a lot of things went on in the game

that, you know, a lot of distractions.

And I give the guys credit because after that,

this third game, they were like, hey, it's off.

We know we can play with the big guys.

We've done it at times this year.

You know, we're all sick of being in the position we're in.

And you know, the whole thing you talk about as a group.

And they got it turned around.

And there was a lot of talk at that time,

both the General Manager change.

And, you know, at the end of that trip, after we won three in a row,

you know, they let Kevin go and Garmo came in.

And I tell you, whatever he said, he went in and was bonked.

And he was to the point.

And when he walked away after that conversation with the guys,

they were looking and they go, hey, we got a leader here.

This guy is going to lead us.

And, you know, they haven't taken the foot off the pedal since.

So, you know, the combinations of the guys themselves kind of realizing,

hey, enough to enough, then, you know, having somebody in charge

that they believe in.

And it was just a total, you know, perfect storm.

Razer, there's been a lot of great things happening, the turnaround.

But the games I've watched, and Jamie would pump the tires of this position

because he's a goal tender.

And he believes that all goal tenders are the reason teams win.

And basically, that's it.

But, like, watching them, they get it safe.

And they were in the past, like, they could play well.

And they just couldn't get it safe.

And they could get no momentum.

Like, how big is that save that they're getting now,

just as far as helping them win games?

Oh, I did.

It's huge.

And, you know, if it were whether it's been Alex Lyon or UPL

or even Cold Nallusna in the few games that he's played,

I don't think there's been two or three games all season long

that you could point at the goal tender that, you know, kind of let them down.

That they did not give them a chance.

Every night, these guys are being called upon.

They're coming up huge.

You know, they're in the rotation right now.

They know they're going to play every other night.

And, you know, they're getting lots of rest.

But, no, these guys have been sick.

And coming up with huge save after save after saves.

And, you know, just even in times,

there's been games when we've kind of dominated teams.

And then there's other games when it's kind of like back and forth

and, you know, just kind of waiting for that break.

And it just seems like it, everything that we get,

every time we get that break, it's after a huge save.

Or a big flurry in our end.

And, you know, we, we escape it and then bang to get down the score.

So, yeah, it's got a big part of it.

I don't like admitting Cold Nallusna has a big part in anything either.

But, they've been awesome.

Awesome.

Razer, obviously last night there was a big to-do in Toronto

with the Matthews injury and the lack of response.

Like, when you, I'm sure you saw the play

and the lack of response.

As a guy who was just the ultimate teammate who would, you know,

stick up and defend his guys,

what did you make of that whole scenario?

Well, I put it this way that they are not the only ones that have gone through that.

We've done that a few times too.

And, you know, we were always critical of the guys not responding at that time

and, you know, using excuses, or I didn't see it,

or I didn't see what was going on.

And, they came up with a million excuses.

But, when it's Cage Thompson or Austin Matthew,

or anybody on your team that, you know,

things like that happen, Ben, if you've got to be,

you've got to, it's got to be fought.

No, one guy.

Five guys, or somebody should be held back from going over the boards.

That's your meal ticket.

So, it's not good.

And, we've experienced it multiple times.

So, you could go all the way back to Lucice running Ryan Miller in Boston,

you know, years ago.

And, no response.

And, it hurt the team.

It really hurt the group of guys for a long time,

because they're under that pressure.

And, everybody's talking about it.

And, they're all looking at each other.

Who's going to be the guy to do it?

So, yeah, it affected us for quite a while.

I couldn't admit that.

And, I think everybody that involved it with it,

would admit it that, you know, it didn't have a positive outcome,

you know, and it stuck around for a long time.

So, for our guys now,

even for the last couple of years,

when something happens on the ice,

he's promoting it all the time.

It's a pack mentality.

It doesn't have to be one guy.

Five guys jump one if you have to, if you feel safer.

And, you know, they're doing it now.

But, it took a long time for them to learn that

and get comfortable doing it.

Now, they don't mind doing it.

But, yeah, it's not a good thing.

You know, we all sit and go,

these guys, you know, a lot of them never have been through that

or experienced it before or know what to do.

Well, there's a lot of excuses,

but when you get to this point,

you should know that, you know,

when something happens to your teammate,

you should be in there.

With Rob Ray.

So, is that something, you know, in your experience,

you feel like players can learn,

it can be coached, or is that just, you know,

the way you're wired,

and the way you played when you were 10 is the way

you're going to play when you're 30.

I think you got to be wired that way a little bit,

but I think that, you know,

even watching our guys,

some of the guys are getting in,

and we're in camp of the other day,

and a little oscilling when after point,

you know, for something that happened,

and, you know, here's the kids,

and never dropped his gloves in his life.

And, you know, he did well enough not to get hurt,

and point was good enough not to really hurt him.

But, I think it's just a matter of a lot of the times

the guys are hesitant to do it,

because they don't know the outcome,

or, you know, maybe not comfortable doing it,

and if you do it once or twice,

then, you know, you realize you're really not going to get hurt.

There's nothing really bad going to happen,

and it's really only a positive coming out of it.

So, but, on the other hand, you know,

these kids coming up through, you know,

whether it's junior college now,

there's not a lot of it happen.

So, you know, to be wired the right way,

that when it does,

and it's only happening once every five years,

it's kind of tough sometimes to put all the emphasis on him,

the players, but, you know,

I think it's always something that should be talked about.

So, Razer, you just talked about that Tampa game.

I mean, was that as good a game,

as you've seen this season, as far as what was on the line,

is, you know, first place in the Atlantic,

where, you know, where Buffalo has been coming,

you know, campus kind of been a gold standard team,

an organization.

I mean, was it a statement game by the Sabers,

or what did you, you were up close and personal?

What did you make of it?

Well, you know, at the game, we played them, you know,

I think it was just before the break,

and in-camp, and we did well.

And it was an overtime game and everything,

but coming in here, everybody knew it was for first place,

and, you know, I give our guys a lot of credit,

realizing and understanding the moment,

and willing to do what they do.

I'll tell you, it was fantastic watching it.

It was like every time, every couple of minutes,

you're seeing a fight, you know, the score of what ate seven,

and I can't even say the gold tenders really played that bad.

It was just, the goals were awesome, the fights were awesome.

You know, just the intensity and the involvement,

was great, it was a total buy-in on both sides.

So, yeah, I could take, you know, a game like that,

at least maybe two of them a week.

You know, it has the odd point to kind of calm it down a little bit.

We were talking last night, and we're halfway through the game,

and like, I know the problem here, we have them in the fight,

yeah, we gotta maybe do something.

So, you know, because it kind of carried over

in the San Jose game in the first period,

as well, when we got the other night here too.

Well, I mean, the Leafs are rolling in to town tomorrow night,

and the spotlights on them, because of what happened last night,

you know, I don't, I guess, you know, Pizzetta will play.

Oh, dude, watch out tomorrow.

But they don't have a ton of guys that are wired for talking about the scoreboard,

like, oh, you think the Sabers are gonna pop the Leafs tomorrow night?

Do you know that place has been a house of horrors for 20 years,

even on the best days?

Yeah.

Do you see Taj Thompson at five one-timers in a row at the end of the game?

Yes.

Like his arms looked tired, and he was laughing,

because he skated off the ice, razor.

It was a power play, right at the end of the first period,

and they just thought to just kept feeding him, bang and bang.

And every one of them seemed to get, you know, harder and harder.

It wouldn't be started.

The eating stuff had ended up like at 92 miles an hour,

you know, his last one that he took.

So, he was laughing his head off coming off.

Everybody was building what's going nuts.

Yeah, if they could get going,

and they could play a fast, wide open game,

they could be extremely dangerous, you know, very dangerous on the rush.

Tighter games, you know, they got to feel their way through it.

Like last night, you know, one nothing, and then it's one one,

but I keep washing a lot of credit.

They really shut things down, and everything, the Sabers,

every opportunity they had to kind of earn after the first period,

and they played a real smart game,

and just couldn't find the way to get that second one.

Yeah, you know, it's going to be like that sometimes,

but if you get into a game,

where a team's not willing to do that,

and just wants to play,

and this group can make you pay.

Razer, we got to finish off with this,

and I want you to just be totally honest with this, okay?

Okay.

Because you're an Ontario boy,

and you're one of the toughest players that ever play in the game,

and Brian was debating,

he's going to come up with a list soon,

of the toughest provinces

in the country,

as far as tough guys in the National Hockey League.

Where do you think Ontario would rank?

I mean, there's probity,

yourself,

but there's people out there that think Saskatchewan

might be the one that takes it home.

Please give us your thoughts.

So I'm going to lean Ontario.

I know it's sure as heck not to back.

I never really met a tough French guy yet.

You know, when we were younger,

the West, that was where all those guys came from.

That's the West.

Oh, my God.

Western hockey league was crazy out there.

So I don't know, man,

there's a lot of guys that come out of the Ontario side

that have been pretty tough and played a long time.

I think maybe that's maybe the separate to the little bit.

Guys from the Ontario side maybe playing a lot longer

than what those other guys do, too.

That's going to be a good list, man.

I'm telling you.

Andy McCarty's a Toronto guy.

Where was he?

He was a pretty tough kid, wasn't he?

Yeah, he was.

Yeah.

He was one of those guys that,

for me being a smaller guy,

you didn't want to fight Sandy out in the middle of the ice

because he just holds you out

and you could swing all day long

and you come six inches from his head.

You know, he had to get him up against the wall a little bit

so he could break the plane of his arms

and try to come in on him that way.

But no, Sandy was a hell of a fighter.

He was top of his nails,

going to use a sit there and there's so many guys

that you just kind of forget about.

And then all of a sudden the name comes up and it's like,

wow, and I always say one of the toughest I ever fought

was Paul Osh.

Remember Paul Osh?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Hey, I put, I put, I put, I put, I put,

I put him for me in the top two.

He wasn't a very big guy either, Razor.

He wasn't a very big guy either.

No, but he hit me one night in Florida

and he hit me right in the forehead with my helmet on.

The thing exploded.

It was like in three pieces laying on the ice when we're done

and my glove touched.

It popped every screw.

It was a tough guy.

Really tough.

Well, Razor, we got to get you out of here

but I just need to know like what the hell is going on

with your buddies from Ontario that they're going to

put a picture of me behind you and trying to distract you.

Like a...

Oh, it's coming too.

I thought we were buddies.

I didn't recognize who it was.

And at the end of somebody said who it was and I'm like,

man, he's never been good looking.

You know, most of us better looking when we're young.

But that was a young picture of you

and you've never been a good looking guy.

The hair was distracting away from my ugly face.

That's what it was.

The hair was awesome.

I'm just seeing.

It was not impressive picture.

Well, it's coming tomorrow.

I can guarantee it.

No, maybe you'll get your picture out there too.

Squirt and water bottles back in the day.

You just got to be careful, Jamie.

There's a lot of people out there, you know?

Yeah.

Exactly.

Exactly.

Put the Jeff on that list too.

Exactly.

That's on the list.

Thank you, Razor.

We appreciate you doing this.

Enjoy the game tomorrow.

Take care, man.

Yeah, Razor.

Rob Ray, Saber's analyst.

He just mentioned Sandy McCarthy.

Sam Mann was my roommate for a couple of trips.

That guy was tough, man.

And I was lying in bed.

I was just about like you know when you know

all that you're 30 seconds from falling asleep.

And I hear.

Oh, Doc, do you ever think about outer space?

And I'm like.

I go Sandman.

I never think of stuff like that.

And he goes.

I'm like, I hope there's not a follow up.

And he goes.

I think about outer space all the time.

And I just rolled over and I said I got a.

I need my own room here.

That's what you need.

That is deep thinker, man.

Sandy McCarthy, I love it.

Steve, thanks.

Steve thinker.

Great.

All right.

Thanks to Rob.

We appreciate him doing that.

Leaf Saber's tomorrow night.

MJ coming up.

Kevin Polar coming up.

Overdrive continues up on YouTube live.

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All right.

We got Canada USA tonight.

The World Baseball Classic.

Kevin Polar coming up.

And we're tracking the players.

Corey Conner's was on fire today, man.

He had a great round.

I believe someone picked him.

Yes.

You have Corey.

We'll do a full recap of our picks and where things are at.

Give us a leaderboard Joe from the bridge.

Yeah.

Like I want a leaderboard of who we picked and where they're at.

Because I think I took Zondi too.

I don't know if you have Zander.

I don't think you got picked.

I don't know if you got picked.

Which is ridiculous.

I would bet money.

I pick Zander.

I picked him near the end.

All right.

We'll see.

I'll tell you in the next hour.

We'll go back and check the tape.

Because he looks dynamite.

Like he's back.

And if he's back, that is a massive, massive storyline on the PGA tour.

So more on that into the next hour overdrive continues.

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