Pacers Fans Will NEVER Forgive These Guys…

0:00What is up, Pacer Nation. Welcome back to another episode here of your go to Pacer's podcast and the pace I'm your host Alex Gold no Fachi today, but boy, oh boy, do we have a good one? This is our first time I believe doing a solo show together. It is the better half of the night, brothers. It is Ryan Knight Ryan. How's it going, man? It's going great, going great. Thanks for having me on again, Alex. And this is an awesome topic to talk about. Talk about some rivalries, some of the who we don't like to go against. And we were chatting a little before I tried not to make this list of just players I disliked because those are almost easier, but true rivalries, heated moments, playoff battle. So we're going to get to touch a lot of fun stuff. Yes, yeah, I'm not like Brad where I spend the first two, three minutes of the podcast, setting everything up. So you're just like, yeah, we're talking rivalries today. And if you

1:03didn't read the title, you might not know what we're talking about, but we are talking rivalries. And we're talking about this current teams rivals. We're not talking about, oh, you know, Reggie Miller, Spike Lee, that kind of thing. We could go back and do all that stuff at some point, but I was like, let's look at like who are the actual top five rivalries for the Pacer's or Pacer's fans. And I wanted to look at individual players because I feel like a lot of times she say, I hate the box. Hate the next. I hate the thunder. I hate this team. Whatever. That's fine. And that's a dandy, whatever. But I think it's more intriguing to have a conversation of like, who on those teams do you despise? Because a lot of times you kind of find players on those teams that you hate kind of endearing. Maybe you're kind of, you know, an hammered by what they do as a player. Other times you just can't stand the person. I think the long running rival that we probably won't bring up today is LeBron James for the Pacer's. But it could be renewed. And I think there's a narrative you could make. Maybe it is restored here a little bit if the Pacer's and the Sixers meet in the playoffs. If there's some bad blood in a regular season game. But

2:06I think right now at this current group, like they all like really likely, LeBron, LeBron has been out with the Lakers for the past seven years. And now he's back in the East. So we'll see, you know, that changes it all. But I just feel like there's a lot of intriguing names here to touch on. We have a few honorable mentions, but we'll dive into our top five and then get into our honorable mentions at the end. But I'm really excited about this list because I think there are a lot of guys we can talk about that have just this history with Indiana. Yeah. Yeah. There is a lot. And I initially had to have LeBron on the list. But you make the good point where it's, it's that's maybe my distaste for LeBron more than just looking at who to this team who we've gone against. You know, that was the old Paul George era that Lance Steven Senera. This is now the Tyrese Haliburnair and he hasn't really played against LeBron in any meaningful games outside of just some fun ones during the regular season. So how do you want to kick this off, Alex? You usually kick it to me. So maybe I'll let you start at the five spot. Yeah. Well, real quick on the Bronze James. I just want to say this is not any LeBron James we've seen before.

3:10This is Polymarket LeBron James. And so we've got a lot of different guys being endorsed here by these betting companies and things like that. So very interesting to see that from Polymarket LeBron. Maybe we'll get to some other players that are sponsored by some of these betting sites. But I think at number five, I'll get things kicked off here. This one probably might be higher on some people's list, but I have Josh Hart at number five. And this one just kind of doesn't really, when I think of Paces Rivals right now and I think of the Knicks. For me anyway, like I feel like the person that has had the most outspoken negative comments about Indiana, it has been Josh Hart. The guy said he absolutely hates coming to this city to play. Can't stand Indiana. The only thing Indiana has going for him is Longz Donuts, which that's a good thing to like about Indiana. But other than that, there's a lot more to love about this freaking awesome state. And for you to sit there and run your mouth about it, okay, whatever. So it felt great beating him back to back

4:11in the Eastern Conference and kind of make him almost not important. Like they were so adamant about all right, you beat us, Josh Hart. And he even talked about how the Paces series kind of motivated him to be more than just a negative out there on the floor. Like he had to do more. And I think that's kind of what helped him work on a three point shot and things like that. But you know, I just don't like Josh Hart. I think he's he talks a lot of trash for being the fifth option on their team. And quite frankly, dude, Ken Gardner and Neesmith and even when he tries, he bows him because he overplays him. So I just don't like the nicks. I think that the nicks as it in general is more of a rivalry for the Paces right now. But I think if you look at anybody on that team, he's the only one that's been outspoken about his disdain for Indiana. While other players kind of like I said earlier, they're kind of a little bit of interesting. You know, like I don't look at Jalen Brunson as like this dirty player that talks bad about Indiana. He's always kind of taking the nice guy approach, even if he did headbutt Andrew Nimhard, right? And you might hate the flopping because he looks like a fish out of water. But he's not as idiotic as Josh Hart is

5:17about, you know, his his loose lips. I guess you could say. Yeah. You know, there, there's something beautiful about this player podcast air we're getting because you get so many unclip sound bites of players and another great great quote that Josh Hart had when he was once talking about TJ McConnell. And I can't remember how it came up. But it was like between him and Brunson and who you would want to fight like in a street fight in the in the NBA and Josh Hart or I think Brunson brought up TJ and and Josh was like, I wouldn't want to fight TJ because I think you'd have to kill him for the fight to be over because TJ's just that. So that I'm going to give him one credit sound like because I thought that was pretty accurate. But I couldn't agree more. And just looking on the court, Josh Hart is kind of that like fake tough guy to me out there where he's out there and he's he's getting rebounds. He's doing this and he's like, notice the dirty worker. But he also is like the guy who's not really trying to fight over the screen. He wants to draw the foul. He wants to get the flop as well. And he's infuriating in terms of just you think you close a possession and then

6:17Josh Hart comes in and steals an offensive rebound kick out three or forbid he hits a three himself and you're like, that's the shot you wanted to give somebody. And of course, Josh Hart is on a heater for whatever reason. And so he is one of those personalities that I think he's on your team. You probably enjoyed a little bit more, but he does seem to have just this crazy place where he he likes to take shots at Indiana and he can stay hates coming here. But I think I would two if I was an ex-player because you lose when you come here. And and that's continue has happened over years. And so I think he he does play. He's a guy. I can play like 48 minutes and I he did that. I think one game against us in the series, but his sound bites is just energy and this kind of made for a couple players of this mix like fake tough guy energy. We know kind of Carl Anthony Towns had that even Chen Zoh definitely had that where it was guys who like want to be known as like the blue collar hard players, but ultimately we're kind of buying into the antics the flopping

7:20the exaggeration where you have a guy like Aaron Nismith who is battling his heart out to get over his screen and they'll call him for a kickball where then even Chen Zoh on the other side flies 10 feet on a pick and roll and they get that call. If you remember, I think that was game one of the 2024 playoffs series one that will live in infamy. But I think that's a great first one. And I think Pacer fans will agree. So I'll start with my five Alex now and I have another fan favorite in Indiana and that's Damien Lillard and there is a lot with Dame and he would probably be higher on this list for me. If the injuries didn't kind of you know have derailed a little bit of his success and we haven't gotten to see him a while, but it's hard to think of a guy. He kind of initiated Ty Reese's villain mentality is starting in the I always want to say the bubble, but it was the end season tournament where him and he does the dang time and everyone was kind of and he actually

8:22took that on the chin pretty well, but then he comes out the 2024 playoffs series 35 points in the first half. The Pacer's kind of look overmatched and then we know what happened the rest of that series. He's kind of injured going to the next year's first round playoffs series and he's barking from the bench. You don't want me out here. I'm coming back. We saw what happened. Now I wish you hadn't gone down. Obviously all Pacer fans are are empathetic for injuries and know what that means and how can affect a team. But there was a lot of bark and a lot of talk and I think it's kind of funny to compare these players because Dame's career is kind of built on two shots. Like when we look back at it, you know, with his at least in Portland and Tyrese had four of those like in one playoff series. So Tyrese kind of has that dang time, but even to a further playoff success. So it was hard to leave him off the list. Well, it's a perfect segue because that's what I had a number four was Damien Lillard. So yeah, it feels like it is pretty much almost dead now at this point.

9:27Just a little, you know, just because he's in Portland, right? Like obviously gets the Achilles tear and it's crazy that he hasn't Achilles tear around one. Tyrese has one. Jason Tatum has one. They all have one and they all number zero. Like that was just the most random thing ever to happen in the playoffs. But the fact that we've been stretched by Milwaukee. So now they're just Milwaukee. So they're paying them $20 million. But the fact that he's in Portland now, it does kind of lessen that rivalry a little bit. And it does suck that we didn't really get to see both of those teams, those Pacers and Bucks teams fully healthy in the playoffs to kind of see if that could have gone longer than those five six game series. But yeah, I mean, it's hard not to ignore what he did. And I think everything you brought up is just a great point like the Dametime thing. Like, you know, like Tyrese, we can we'll probably talk about this later in the podcast. I'll just bring it up. We know he's a big WWE guy. And so this is him buying into that WWE villainous role right here doing the Dametime thing. And I don't even think he thought two things about like, oh, this is going to blow up and become some massive storyline in the moment,

10:30right? And and Dame said at that post game press conference, you know, stay humble, right? Or you'll be humbled. And then one thing you did forget the 2024, I believe it was NBA All-Star game was in in theapolis. Yeah. And this was a battle for the MVP honors between Tyrese, Halliburton and Dame Lillard. And let's just be honest, dog rivers was the head coach of the Eastern Conference because Adrian Griffin had gotten fired and docked basically had just gotten hired. And I don't think he probably coached a game if he had coach one at all. He coaches the All-Star team when he really shouldn't have and leaves Dame out there. They kind of run the offense for Dame. And Dame gets enough points to win the MVP when I think that was Tyrese's to have. So, you know, he can have the MVP of the All-Star game. We'll take the two playoff series wins, no doubt about that. But just the way those two guys went at it, like it, there's no love loss between those two. And I think they both respect each other's game. I don't think they like each

11:31other. And I think that's okay. And it's just kind of sucks that we don't have somebody like that right now. But I'm sure somebody knew will kind of rise to that occasion and be that new villainous back and forth point guard rival for for Tyrese. Yeah, I definitely think we have those coming that the hard part is everyone actually really likes Tyrese. I mean, you see him on all these player podcasts and he and people seem to really enjoy him. He just he gets into it almost more with like the fans, the flannel guy and MSG like that's Tyrese is a real angle or he's thrown the first pitch at the the Cubs game against the Brewers, which that story issues very funny. Yeah, was so funny. But either there, I'm going to go to my number four here. And I broke my rule a little bit because we talked about when we were doing these lists, it's current rivalries. And I'm kind of trying to renew a little bit one here. And that's one with Paul George. And I would say, I don't think this team has any to stay. I mean, basically, well, nobody from the Paul George era is still here. Miles would have been the only one left. And we know he's no longer here. But

12:36I do think the rivalry within at least the organization kind of still lives on because Paul George just loves to take weird shots every once in a while towards Indiana or towards the front office. And none other than the notorious one of saying that our front office wouldn't trade for the best power forward in the league, even though it was quote unquote on the table for them. And he said that. And then like six months later, came out and was like, it was Anthony Davis. And this is a little bit hyperbolic. But that would be essentially like saying right now we could train for Wimbledon Yama like it just wasn't feasibly possible. Like it never was going to happen. And and again, another thing of the the player podcast era is these guys can kind of just say things that are completely unchecked. And and people will believe them because oh, well Paul George said it must have been true. Like no chance that was true. And for most of Paul George's post pace or era, he has been in the West. And obviously is now returned was with Philly, but Philly wasn't doing

13:36anything. Now I think there's a real chance to get a rivalry back with him because I don't think he's ever really loved the Indiana like he never really talks about it in high remarks, even though it has been his peak of his career. And if the Pacers want to make the run, I think we all hope and think they can. There's a good chance you got to go through Boston. And so we're going to be I'll see him in a playoff game. And if we're just talking from a fan perspective, bringing Paul George back into game bridge for a playoff game against this team are are rejuvenated in eastern conference final best team since that era. And it's it's a better team. And I think we know that but that would bring a lot of fans to their seats, a lot of booing, a lot of energy. And so maybe that doesn't exist, but I could see the fan base kind of ramping up because Paul George did have a good initial playoff series against against the oh my god, the Celtics cheese. There's his current

14:37team. Yep. And not as good against the next, but if he's healthy, which is a bit ashtrix, we could have a really fun playoff series against them. Yeah, I'm trying to remember the last time I really remember the arena booing him, right? Because it I think it was maybe his last year with the Clippers, but it was like every time he touched the ball after he left for OKC and then even LA like it was boobards every single time. And he loved playing up to that crowd. Like I mean, he would go off. I mean, I think he had like a 40 point game against the Pacers with the Clippers. And I was like, man, this dude is nuts. Like he really embraced it. And you know, honestly, like fans really shouldn't view like Paul George leaving now as a negative because look at what it led them to. It eventually got them Tyrese Halliburton. Thank God. I mean, everything worked out that way. But in the moment, like I will never forget I made sure that I had I had tickets for his return when he was with OKC and I booed the living crap out of him. I didn't I couldn't stand the guy

15:39after that. I'm like, you know, you you grew up here in Indiana and we made you who you are. And then honestly, just the way his whole entire tenure here kind of ended, just the the oh, you know, CJ Miles needs to pass me the ball. I deserve the last shot. I'm the guy guy on the team. Then he's doing these cringe commercials with, you know, those are the best series with Joe Young shout out, Joe Young is cousin. You know, I mean, honestly, like, yeah, the Pacers weren't a tough spot because they can only do so much with what they had. And Paul George always had his eyes on, I got to go somewhere else to be the best version of myself. I think he may have peaked elsewhere, maybe with OKC. He was like final three in MVP vote down, but like he never got anywhere like close to sniffing the NBA finals. Then when he was here, this is probably the best chance he'll ever have at sniffing an NBA finals with Jason Tatum in Boston. So I definitely think there could be a chance that this does kind of, you know, become something a little bit more interesting, but I'm not a I'm

16:40not so sure that fans care as much, but it would be great if he does something stupid or says something stupid in the media for it to become bigger. So I'm super intrigued by what Paul George looks like moving forward. But yeah, the boobards have kind of quieted down, I think, with this generation of Pacer fans. Yeah, just a little bit. I do think that there's a little I like what you said of if he just pokes the bear a little bit, I could almost see this team kind of embracing that Tyres embracing that and using that because Tyres likes to embrace the fans and who we've rooted for in the past and and so I think if he can get just a little bit of that, he might take it and run a little bit and like I said, I think it's been tampered because Paul George's success hasn't been there post trying to create these super teams. I agree the best version of himself was an okay see, but he hasn't had any of the iconic moments that I think he hoped for all of us iconic moments playoff battles have happened in Indiana. And so he'll have to see and if Boston's going to be

17:44really good, he's going to be a part of that. And so it'd be a really fun series. All right, let's move on to our top three here now. So looking at number three. Oh boy, well, I'm just going to go ahead and give it away by saying this Bobby sucks. Bobby sucks. All right, ladies and gentlemen, it is Bobby Portis. And for me, it's just when you think about the Milwaukee Bucks rivalry, there's been one constant who has been healthy for the entirety of both series and it's Bobby Portis. And I'm not going to lie. Bobby Portis is a gamer. I think Bobby Portis is someone I would love on the Pacers because I think that he stepped up his game. And I mean, he was hitting the line. He was going to for toe with Pascal Siochman, the last one outplayed Miles Turner. I felt like at times in the last series as well. And then the first series, I mean, he was a big part of their team as well without Yannis. And so they had him coming off the bench at one point, then had to start him and they're like, no, we got to play small ball Bobby at the five. And

18:46he really did evolve into that player. But how many scuffles did he get into it with with Indiana in the playoffs? I mean, think about the back and forth between him and Andrew Nimhart that's a place. I believe that was game four. And it led to Indiana going up three one and Portis getting himself ejected with two double technical files or two technical, a double technical foul there. I believe in the second quarter, like just absolutely asinine and ridiculous. But that's the Bobby Portis way. There is no other way like this is the same guy that punched his own teammate in a Kool-A-Mirror Titch at a practice like he's just, he's just an idiot. He's crazy Bobby. And it's so funny because like the way we felt about him as like Bobby Sucks, like you got the Bobby chance in Milwaukee every time he came on the floor because he would just impact the game. Even when he was having bad moments throughout the regular season, he was kind of second, they still loved him. And so now that he's with Miami, I just think that for whatever reason, the Pacers are going to run into the heat again. Even if it's just regular season stuff, there's once again no love loss between

19:51Bobby Portis and the Indian of Pacers or the Indian of Pacers fans. And he's going to be John with James Johnson. If he's back on the roster at some point this year, I can already see it. Him and Andrew and him aren't got into it. He got into it a ton with Pascal. See, I think they both got technical fouls the last time they played. So yeah, I mean, Portis is just a guy that knows how to get under the opponent's skin. And he did that at Nazium in this series and these two series. So I think Bobby Portis has to be top three, but I can hear the case. Why not? Because he's probably not as significant in terms of like the pecking order. And I guess my Josh Hartman kind of falls in line to like where these two guys are at in that, and that, you know, regard. No, it's a great take. And I wonder if you did for all the fan bases in the league and if everyone did a podcast similar to this, how many fan bases might have Bobby Portis on the list? Because I think he just grinds everybody's gears. And it's a good point that if he's on your team, you probably love him and some of the energy, especially kind of a guy who's typically coming off the bench kind of

20:55playing. He does play the physical style of basketball. He's not trying to avoid the contact. He's trying to get in there. And he has without a doubt the definitive crazy eyes. Like when people ask like, what are crazy eyes? How do you describe them? Just pull up a picture of Bobby Portis. Because when you look at that man, it's if he goes into, you know, rage mode is I would call it. That guy's got all crazy eyes. Look, and the ejection you talked about, I think it was game four was a wild one. I remember doing that getting a fan base to chant Bobby sucks. I think there was even a game where he drew blood on either our player. Somebody like there was and it wasn't like on purpose. But just like that's kind of the way this guy plays is he's always trying to get understand. He's constantly yapping on the court, which I actually enjoy that aspect of the game because some of the most fun moments I can think of during the playoff run was getting to play the bucks in this energy and and this rivalry that had grown over three seasons. And he was a big part of it. And it's kind

21:58of sad that that air is ended. But I think we get to look forward to it as you mentioned in Miami. Because they are going to remember those I can assure you, Janice and Bobby both want another crack at Indiana. And I would say bring it on because that heat team has some flaws like any other team would. But I think that'd be a great series and getting to go and and take them out. We ended Janice's end Bobby Portis is basically, you know, bucks championship era contention playoff. I'd love to do it in Miami as well. Alrighty. Who do you have at number three? Well, I have his teammate and that is one Janice and to the coup. Because I think it's hard to leave both of them off the list. And there is so much going back with the rivalry here. We've obviously talked about the bucks. But even just specifically, Janice ball gate still one of the funniest, most entertaining storylines I've ever seen as a Pacer fan of just the ludicrousy of thinking we tried to steal the game ball was

23:00the footage and he had some of the greatest comments after saying, well, I grabbed the ball. I felt it. I knew that wasn't the game ball. You know, it's a different temperature, which it was just I don't even know what's coming out. I think he was still riding some some high emotions. And then getting into that 2024 playoff series, obviously, he was kind of rumored to come back, but never was able and Milwaukee fans were constantly saying, oh, if we had Janice different series, different well, 2025 came around and guess what? It wasn't a different series now. Given credit, he dominated that series. He played tremendous. I think he averaged like 33, 12 and 5 or 6 or so. Like just was a monster, but in typical kind of how you play, you know, you kind of just build the wall, let him do his thing. And there have been a lot of moments. And then obviously the biggest ones coming when we beat them and he kind of gets in with it with Madden for a second. And then obviously the John Halberton wave in the flag goes out on the court. Now John Halberton's not going to a couple of games and yeah, honest kind of calling him out and you can have your stance on where

24:03that all took place. John was definitely trying to at least bait him a little bit. But I think that that those moments and that rivalry and then it really spilled into Yannis wanting to have one foot out the door. Is he going to get traded? Well, he's telling people he doesn't want to get traded when clearly he kind of does want to get traded. And so he's now ended his whole, you know, career with Milwaukee putting that chapter behind and the Pacers are really the stamp on that ending. Alrighty. So I have Yannis a little bit higher on my list because of just the star power and all of the shenanigans with him. I mean, it is. I mean, you went through the laundry list and it's just ridiculous. And you forgot one. And that's the first game of the season last year against Milwaukee. Miles Turner's return. He hits the game winning shot. And what does he do? He runs to center court. He throws the boo signs down and he grabs his crotch. I mean,

25:04yes, this guy is like beating the Pacers in the regular season was his favorite thing to do because he couldn't do it in the playoffs. What's Haliburton got there? I mean, we're talking about at one point when the Pacers used to play Milwaukee, Yannis would be sitting on the bench at the end of the third quarter watching the rest of the game because they'd be up by 30 some points. If we had no answer for them when subonus was out there, I mean, I remember one ESPN article where like or one ESPN little video where he was like looking at the team photographers camera and taking pictures of the game during the game. Like, I mean, that's how bad it was. Again, Deanna had no answer. Well, then all of a sudden, you know, I'll Yannis and the Pacers get into it in the playoffs a couple of times and like the I don't think the bucks have ever beaten the Pacers in a playoff series, but who gonna ring right? It's all over here from all these ring culture people, but they can't beat Indiana in the playoffs. So I do have a little bit higher and I don't want to spoil it yet. But for my number two, we're going to go kind of parallel here. You're going to know my number one is by saying this, but my number two is Miles Turner. And

26:08it's so weird to think about a guy that was here for 10 years that definitely had a back and for relationship with the fan base. And I think once they finally cut ties with subonus and it was like you're the center. Most people came around and were like, all right, we love Miles Turner. And like, rightfully so, he really stepped up in that role, right? Whenever, you know, Halliburton elevated his game to like 18 points per game and he was around still around 7, 8 rebounds because the guy can't grab the basketball to save his life. But he was having some really good, really good, you know, seasons with Halliburton. And now we talk about that return game. He does this whole little cute smile thing. He he talks so much crap about the team after the finals run. Said he wants to go somewhere where you're celebrated. Said he wants to go somewhere that's got a chance to win championships. He wants to play with a superstar like Yannis. And now look at him. He's these the laughing stock of the league. Nobody wants to trade for him.

27:11He's sitting on a team that has no chance of ever even competing for a title. Nor will they ever have a chance of while he's there and under that contract. And he and he burned the city on his way out and he said, well, what about the fans about the is about the organize with the front office? Well, dude, you put your foot in your mouth about 15,000 times every comment you made. Then you do the whole close in the book thing, the whole little like fake smile, starch thing. Then you go out there, hit your first three and then suck the rest of the game. You get out played by Isaiah Jackson. And and then after that, he does the whole thing after the first NBA Cup game. They ask him, hey, what'd you like about your, like, the green court? A lot better than yellow. Oh, okay. Oh, you're still not thinking about it. Sorry. I mean, this guy is going to be like that, that meme of the kid looking out the window crying, watching the Pacers and the playoffs again with a better new center. And you know, it's easy to pick on Miles Turner just because he's, you know, he's just an idiot to be honest with you. But

28:12my God, the guy did it to himself. If you would have just left Milwaukee and left Indiana for him, Milwaukee instead of his for the money, nobody would care. We don't understand. But the way you threw your teammates and the fan base under the bus while trying to like and poorly throwing the front office under the bus, by the way, it just made it easy to hate this guy. And so I don't even think the players care about him that much. Like I think the players have moved on from it. Like it's whatever they're cool with miles, but this fan base hates Miles Turner. And the last game, who is that Indian? I think they booed him every time he touched the ball or very much. So I think he might get the Paul George treatment for quite a while. I don't know. It might feel like a little like below us to boo a guy on a crappy Milwaukee team. The way he left this city. I don't know. People won't forget. No, they definitely won't. And that's why I had Miles Turner too as well. And I had him at one for a while because of the argument you just made around. There's nobody who's going to get louder booze when they walk in game bridge field house. That's for sure. And that's

29:12not going anywhere time soon. But Miles Turner was at times hard to like even as a pacer because he was a little bit cringe. And I embraced all that like the comments of I don't play with Legos, I build Legos. Like I could get around that. They were so iconic and ridiculous that they were at least funny and entertaining. But all that that kind of made it charming because he was here on his way out. The cringe was so much worse because he battled a lot when he was here in Indiana with like social media people getting in his head like talked about it one month. He's on social media. The next month he's making an announcement that he's he's left off Instagrams. He's off Twitter. He's off X now. And so we know that comments and media narratives get in his head a little bit. And so he just couldn't keep us out of his mouth. And he was he was so happy to be in Milwaukee on a team where we all kind of looked and was like, I think you honest is gone, right? Like this is over. It doesn't seem like he wants to be there anymore. So yeah, just be happy about

30:13the money. I don't really understand the shade. And he can say what he wants. Maybe we were, you know, throwing a lower deal at him than he expected. But it was a round mark of value. Everything that was reported somewhere in that $20, $22 million a year range give or take. We might not ever know. But there's a reason why his deal can't be moved right now. Nobody's taken that contract on and we were probably in the right to be offering where he was. And you brought up the close the book one is the one that always lives with me because it was so pre planned. It was so prepped in his head and it came off terribly. And for those who are watching on YouTube or whatever right now, I mean, the the fingers, like it was so cringe miles that it was it was hard to watch, but also something you couldn't look away from. That's been the whole miles turner era. And he always says what you pointed it's I'm saying it because of the front office and I took pay cuts and all this. Well, one year we gave you a $20 million dollar bonus, basically, because we were under the the cap or

31:16the minimum. And maybe we were, but we were playing in the right value. And so he can't keep us out of his head and and miles will be an interesting one because it is a little different than Paul George in terms of Paul was always on good teams. Now they never went to the level that he probably wanted or they expected, but miles, I mean, for the time being, that deals not getting moved and Milwaukee's not going to be good in any near future. So miles, you got the money, but I can tell you, I think you'd be a lot happier, making a little bit less being on a championship contending team, but that's not where you're at right now. It is so funny to me that this was the bucks all out move to try to keep you honest. This is our last ditch effort. And you get like, I think the second worst statistical season from miles Turner, since his rookie year, like the guy regressed from like the number three option on a team that made the finals to a guy that sucks. And I'm not even trying

32:16to be mean, but like, no, he was not even a top 20 center last year statistically. So it's just wild to me that like he is so dependent upon a point guard setting him up because I mean, when he was playing with subonus, he just kind of stood in the corner, like didn't really have a row and I get why that would be frustrating. I totally understand that, especially when they tell you, you're going to play the five and then you're playing the four, like I get all that. But the guy just, I don't know, he just he lacks self awareness. And I think for as much as like I came around on him, because like I was not a fan. I don't know how long he'd been listening to this show Ryan, but I was like, you know, me and Fachi just threw this guy to the bus anytime we could because it was like, this guy can't read about all he does is block shots and shoot threes. And it's like, now it doesn't even really block shots that well. So I mean, it was obviously the right time for him to get to move on. And I think had they got a bargain deal to keep him, they would have been happy to keep him because he fit very well with that starting five. But no, like they're not losing sleep that

33:16he left. And they're way better off as Zubat's now. And just from a dramatic standpoint. But like, I told Fachi this the other day and I said, Miles Turner might have been the longest senior guy, but nobody really ever looked at him as a leader. That's just not his MO. And I think that him like he always tries to be somebody he's not. So like you talked about it, the pre-planned, all I'm going to script this whole thing out a little, you know, all that crap, right? Like, it's stupid. It doesn't, it's not really who he is. Like he doesn't really want to be that guy. He faked wanting to be the villain so bad. This dude is not a villain. He has no villain in him. He is as soft as Charmin in the nicest way possible. Like he's a good guy. Like there's nothing nasty about Miles Turner. Like he knows that I wasn't a big fan of him. I mean, he's very present on social media. And then he came on the podcast and act like he knows he's known me for years. And I'm like, okay, like this is not a guy that really, he just, he was hurt. It was like a lover scoring more

34:18than it was. I want to be a villain. So, you know, I don't want to tie. I don't want to like spend all my time talking about Miles Turner on this pot. So we can get to number one, but I'll quickly do number one because you're already talking about him. It's you honest. I think you honest has to be the biggest rival just because of how good of a player he is and how Indiana has kind of had their way with him over the last couple of years. Now, I know the regular season's been a little bit different, but just thinking about that game winner that Tyree said over him in the regular season with Reggie Miller on the call right there with Darvin Ham with his hands in his pockets. Like that was just incredible. But then for tie it up below by him for the game winner and game five of the NBA playoffs, it just incredible. And then of course John Halliburne getting a little overexcited shocker. That's what John Halliburne does. And for Yana, so like put his hand in his chest and say that he came out and said that you know, John Halliburne and custom out and John Halliburne's like, I do not cuss. I do not talk like that. I did cross a line and I I apologize for my actions, but I never cussed. And that makes me mad that he's saying that you

35:20mentioned it earlier, the grabbing of the neck of Benedict Madden getting in James Johnson's face about the whole situation. Like the running around the entire Pacers. Like this is what's funny about Miles Turner, right? Like this go back to Miles real quick. Remember when he was going back to the Pacers locker room for that ball. Yeah. And what was Miles Turner saying, don't give it to him. Don't give it to him, right? But Miles, like don't touch me, honest, but guys don't give it to him. You know, then he comes up there and he's putting his hands in Lloyd Pierce's chest and he's doing the same thing to tie. And I'm like, this guy is insane. Like when Yana says mad, he is a totally different character. And he tries to act like he's you have to win humbly. I respect players that went humbly. It's like you never lose humbly. You lose like a cry baby. And so, you know, I respect the heck out of you, honest. Like he to me, I still think he's probably the best player in the Eastern Conference. No doubt about that. He can do a lot of different things. But to act like, you know, he hasn't taken a little bit of a step back might be might be wrong. I think he has

36:21slightly taken a step back from what he once was in his prime. But this dude like he is he is one of those guys that he's not going to share his basketball with you. That makes sense. And I know like him makes sense to go with the game ball thing. But it's like if you were to like make this guy maddy, what's I'm taking my ball off me to like he just isn't he's not a very loving personality like he tries to portray. And once again, we got Paulie Market, LeBron when we got Koushe, honest. So what a what a weirdo. And I think the way that he handled his whole situation, I'm a walkie before he left was pretty embarrassing. Yeah. Yeah. We all have that one friend when they get angry, you can kind of see they're just seeing red and they lose their personality and just start doing crazy stuff. And and that's honest. And I love that you brought up how he left Milwaukee because there was a time where if he had just come to Milwaukee and said this was a great era. We gave it all we had. I appreciate all the trades you tried to make to try to bolster this roster. It's just not working. Let's find a way to part ways and get me on a new team. I think

37:22they would have embraced that and said, yep, you got us to ring. They gave it to him. But he played this cat and mouse game where he's like, that's the media narrative driving that. And it's like, well, that's your agent. So you can kind of just tell him not to do that. Like he works for you. It's your narrative. And we all kind of think you want to leave. And the rumor was always kind of like Miami and East Coast team. And oh, here we are a year later. And it's just been such a weird era. And I'm with you. There are so many moments to think about with him and just against the Pacers of just things that I've never seen happen with anybody else. I've never seen interaction with the dad. I've never seen somebody run into the other locker room, never seen somebody choke, mother and out. Like, I mean, this is just stuff you don't see. And so I think you made a really compelling case for why he should be number one. And I'm going to go a different way because the guy I went with the number one doesn't have the rivalry anger, the fan, the moment he's, by all accounts, a very nice guy. And that is Jalen Brunson. But if I'm talking rivalry,

38:27the Nick's pace is rivalry to me is by far number one. And I think we've lost sight of the Jalen Brunson Tyreece kind of debate a little bit. If you go back to I think it was the 2023 Phoebe World Cup where both Tyreece and Jalen Brunson were on the team. And Brunson was starting, but every time Tyreece kind of came in, it seemed like the game got a little bit better, the team played better. And it started that argument of who's better. Is it Jalen Brunson? Is it Tyreece? And then everybody, at least in the national media narrative was pretty much all, it's Jalen Brunson. It's just Indiana fans. It's, it's, they're just hometown. Look at the stats. Jalen Brunson's putting up 30 Tyreece is putting up 18, 19 points. Then you saw it on the biggest stage twice. And look, Jalen Brunson had some high highs in there as multiple 40 point games, huge moments. But Tyreece had the bigger closeout games, the bigger moments, the iconic plays. And it's definitely a stylistical difference when you really compare who's better. But closing that 2025

39:32playoff run, it was Tyreece. Like I think people forget that now because Jalen Brunson's obviously led his team to the championship and we didn't get to see Tyreece do that. But the narrative has flipped. And now there's a real brewing rivalry going into next season between Nix fans and Pacers fans just because we know that we think if we were in the playoffs last year, we would have beaten them. The Nix fans will never believe that even though we took them out two years in a row before that. And so I think this anticipated series that I think we all hope to get is the biggest rivalry we have. And at the face of that, it's Tyreece and it's Jalen Brunson because there are two iconic personalities in the NBA. There are two guys who are known for making big shots, clutch plays. And I think that's what led me to put him at number one. It's not as much the personal disputes, the crazy moments. It's just on basketball. We know Brunson doesn't like to play us. We know

40:33we love to play them. And I just really hope we get one real crack at them no matter how the playoffs shake out. I think everybody wants to see this rematch. I think everybody does want to see it. And you know, the Nix would be lying to themselves that they said, yeah, we're glad we didn't see Indiana and the playoffs this year because they do have our number. But I think you put it, you know, pretty well. They're talking about how the on court rivalry kind of explains things. Let's just go back to what happened in the first playoff series and that game three, right? Andrew N. Martin's that big three point shot. Everybody kind of always remembers that. It's like, oh, that's kind of when the game was over, but it really wasn't. The very next possession, Jalen Brunson gets the basketball. And what does he do? And instead of just taking an open shot, he tries to flop and draw a foul. And he completely misses. And like, he got ridiculed left and right. Right after that for his terrible shot selection. Paces win that game. But when you think about what does Tyrie's Hall Burton do when he is got the game on the line, he's takes a step back

41:34through over Mitchell Robinson and McElbridge is now as a two because his foes on the line. But and then he has a triple double in game four with those was like, what 30 points? Was it 32 points? I think it was 32 12 and five or something. It was, no, it's a triple. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I thought about have been 15, 32 15 and 10. I can't remember. But whatever it was, he has a crazy triple double. And he just impacts the game and more ways in my opinion from a point guard standpoint. Then Jalen Brunson, like if you were to like consider like points responsible for throughout the game, maybe you could give the nod to Hallibur because of how many assists that he generates or how many, you know, hockey assist he generates because it's the past leading to the next pass because of his incredible, you know, skill sets. So I mean, there's a reason why Tme USA had Halliburden on their roster and not Jalen Brunson because you can only play one way with Jalen Brunson. And the next set figured out how to do that. They've got the perfect roster around him to play to his strengths. And they want a championship because of it. And he he really took some steps for the last,

42:37you know, the last couple of years. I think losing Indiana did kind of make them better. One way or another, right? But it's just so fun to me because we did. I don't even know if you brought up the WWE stuff, right? But like they have tried to like dip into this rivalry even more. Like in the ring with like two or three different segments now that I can think about with Halliburden Brunson going at it. But like these dudes like each other. That's the thing. It's like there's such good friends off the court. There's not really any animosity. But we want it to be bigger because we hate Jalen Brunson and the way he plays basketball with all the flopping and stuff like that. I mean, I got a ton of respect for him. Don't get me wrong. But man, was I rooting for this first to beat him. I won't lie about that. So it's just interesting to me because I didn't even have Jalen Brunson on my top five. And you had him at number one. Maybe I should have had him at number five instead of Josh Hart. I just felt like the next had to be represented here individually. And I think that there's probably a better, you know, storyline with Brunson versus Halliburden. So I'll just admit that I was wrong and not having him on the list. At least at number five.

43:40But, you know, I'm not like Brad where I had a number seven in the Eastern Conference of my rankings. Like I mean, I don't hate the guy that much. Maybe there's more Jalen Brunson haters out there than I realized. Yeah. Well, Brad might be at the top of that list. And I think it even pained him to put him that high. But there's a lot of good points you made. You know, I think Ty Reese and Brunson really like each other. Do I think Brunson likes Neesmith and Nemhard? Probably not as much. I think those guys get under his head. We've obviously seen Brunson with the headbutt in the closeout game. And I even think Neesmith really plays him harder and Nick's fans hate Neesmith. I know they had the game one scorcher, but the way he plays defense, the way he plays hard. So I think there's a little bit there between the teams and chippinus. And I think the Nick's know they want to prove that they're better than us. Like it's not an asterisk on a finals. Don't get me wrong. Like a finals is a finals. I would take one it any way possible. But I think there is going to be a little this year where if we get that match up, they're going to be a talking heads before the game being like, Hey, like the the Pacers weren't there. Do you think

44:45you still could have done it? And they're going to want to kind of silence those rumors. So I think that's the one fans will be most excited for. And just there's so much history between the Pacers and Nick's. And so I think I had to just have him there. I will at least finish my Jalen Brunson take because I love where you went on game three. I'll never forget Brunson flopping for the win. It was it was disgraceful and I'll also call out that the biggest shot he had in the finals. He missed now. In comes Oji Ananobi with one of the craziest tip in wins you'll ever see, but Tyree's doesn't miss that shot. Tyree's hits that shot. And so I think it'll be a fun one. And if we're able to take him out again in the playoffs this year in theory, I think there's no way to stand on ground that Jalen Brunson's better than Tyree's. If Tyree's is 3 and O in playoff series and most fans would argue at least on paper, the nicks have a better supporting cast than Tyree's does. And I think that's a great debate. You could go either way, but it's definitely

45:46upper debate. I just think he'd cement that legacy against him. I definitely agree. So that wraps up our top five. I know we got to get going here because it's been about an hour recording. So I don't want to go too much longer, but quickly we'll do rapid fire here. Any honorable mentions that we didn't talk about yet? Yeah, I think I had Lou Dordas in honorable mention, mostly just because I dislike him as a player, but I don't think there's a lot of beef. It's more of just the is he trying to hurt somebody out there, which people don't have. I had Gary Trent on there. The one deep cut I had was John Morant. And the only reason I bring it up is because I think they're still the craziest swept under story I've ever seen in the NBA. And if you don't remember, it was when we played in Memphis, I think in 2023. And there was a rumor that I feel was very true from people I've talked to that there were a couple red lasers going across the chest of James Johnson and Andrew Nemhart in the garage is John Morant's crew pulled out. This was before some

46:51of the scandals he had with the Instagram live videos and that. So I think that one feels underswepped in just terms of how that is, but there's not really a rivalry. And John Morant's career has gone off the rails since. But who else did you have? Yeah. So I think one that probably deserves to be on here is Isaiah Stewart just because we had the Thomas Bryant beef stew back and forth where you know, Thomas Bryant definitely flopped a little bit on that one, but it was like an unnecessary Isaiah Stewart type of hit. You also have him getting into it with Miles Turner. I forget like I think it was between Pascal and Kate or something like at the end of the game, something was said. And then all of a sudden, beef stew gets in the middle there and like we have the hilarious video of him looking at Miles trying to go, you play Legos. You know, and then like Miles is doing this whole thing. I mean, it's just great. Like I mean, I kind of'm trying to figure out like who would be like the because the pistons are going to be good. And there has been a little bit of animosity between the two of them. Right when they face off against each other as of late,

47:54but it's still not the same like level we want to see it at potentially with those two. That could brew a little bit more this year. And I kind of wonder who that's going to be whether it's is a Ron Holland on their roster. Yeah. He seems like something that could stir it up. Cade is not afraid to talk. I mean, Cade vs Tyrese could become a very fun back. Or could be in there too. A little bit. We'll see if they're for one year. Yeah, I was going to say we'll see if he comes back. So I think that's one. And I think another one that's like a very niche one. Kind of a similar to like the Lou Dort. It's kind of I threw it out. See before we podcasted, but Isaiah Hardenstein, he does seem both my guys, Isaiah's, how ironic is that? But Isaiah Hardenstein to me just because the whole entire thing with him and the next, like he kind of was just annoying in that series. But then you add in the fact that when the Pacers play the Thunder in the finals the next year, he gets into it. He's flopping all over the place. You know, gets a technical foul with Tony Bradley. Like I mean, who in their right mind's picking a fight with Tony Bradley? Like what are we doing? Like he's just honestly, he's

48:59kind of an idiot when he's out there on the court. Sometimes I got respect this game. I think it's good player, but I don't like him. I have I have a hard time rooting for him to be honest with you, but he is good. So I think he's on there and other than that, I got to say, Jalen Brunson, just because I didn't have him on my list, but I should have trying to think if there's anybody else, I it feels like it's just pretty much a Bucks and Knicks at this point. Yeah. LeBron probably just slightly on there just from previous history, but I don't know. It's tough. It's tough to really know like who else could be on the list right now. So there's anybody who were missing, Paiser fans, let us know in the comments section. But no, I thought it was a great, great conversation right? And I thought that it kind of like opened up some reasons why I'm excited for the season to get back. Yeah, it's that's the point. It's just getting back a team, the competitive, all these players we named are Eastern Conference guys. So we're going to see them a lot. And I think we've got a few that could come back with LeBron and PG and so there's a lot of narratives, a lot of fun that could be had. And no matter who you line up against in the playoffs this year, whether it be the Celtics or the Sixers or even the the Raptors at this point

50:05because you want to talk about villain mentality. I think why might be public enemy number one for a lot of the fan base. So there's going to be a lot of fun to watch. Absolutely. Well, this is always a good time chatting with you. And if you guys haven't already, please subscribe to the Paisers post up. We can hear Brad and Ryan on the weekly. I don't know how many episodes that you guys put out this week. I think we've got one drop in tomorrow. We're usually two to three when the season starts. So yeah, life gets in the way sometimes in the off season. Yeah. What you guys are always good for the post game recaps, right? Like that's you guys always have that and then try to keep up with everything else going on. So really appreciate you guys. And I know we're going to be working together some this year with with podcasting and things like that. So just a little bit of a teaser. I haven't actually given the full announcement yet of what to be on the lookout for, but we are going to be doing some fun new content on setting the pace this year. So happy to have you and Ryan aboard for that. But Paiser Nation, we hope you all have a wonderful rest of your week. If you haven't already, please go listen to the episode now with the Paisers post up with their

51:08new episode and subscribe to both of our channels. Like this video, leave us a comment. And we will talk to you later. But Ryan, you know how I end this show with Fachi. If you're excited for the Paisers to get back and get ready for training camp, hit me with those three words. Let's go Paisers! Today's episode of Setting the Pais is brought to you by Outlet. Outlet is building the town hall for sports, meaning you can easily find what fans are saying about any play, any game, any moment in sports. What makes Outlet different is that the platform is built around credible voices and sports like us. So the conversation is coming from people who actually know the game. If you're tired of the noise and want sports conversations, that means something. This is worth checking out early. Head to the App Store right now and search Outlet Sports to download Outlet today.