Panic Mode in Vegas: Cassidy Out, Tortorella In & Flyers Officially In The Hunt

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Please play responsibly at bet 3 6 5 I'm Jason Gregor alongside Jeff Merrick as a busy Sunday on the ice

But we got to start with the biggest story off the ice the biggest golden nights with eight games remaining

Make a coaching change Bruce Cassie is out

John Tortarella is in it's a contract for the final eight games the regular season and

The playoffs and that's it for now. So it's kind of like an interim basis for for him

Although is the they had coach, but somewhat of an interim basis and what you make of this Jeff

Geez, where do you want to start?

Okay, first of all, it is a very Vegas move

It is I can if you look at you know, it's the it's the the city of spectacle and there has been no

Rater spectacle of recent note then what happened on Sunday afternoon with the announcement of the dismissal of Bruce Cassidy

This had kind of been like on the sort of I don't know how you want to refer to it rigs like the barking chain

Like the the whisper society over the past couple of weeks like there was kind of there was some talk last year

At the when when Vegas went out in the playoffs about the future of Bruce Cassidy with the Vegas golden nights

Obviously that didn't happen and then over the past few weeks the barking chain kind of got going again

But I'll be honest with you. I thought that we were too deep in the season

For them to do it and I always have to keep in the back of my mind Jason

And this is my failure. I always have to keep in the back of my mind and that is Vegas doesn't care how everyone else does business

They really don't

Whatever is going to work for them. They are going to do they don't care about well

This isn't a normal course of businesses is that how we treat these people and those people and this is what we know

They do what they want and I think a lot of it comes right from the top

With Bill Foley like this is

Every organization is predicated on you know no excuses accountability success all of it

But man right from Bill Foley to a George McFee to Kelly McCrimmon

There is an expectation of success at every single level and if that is not met there are consequences

whether it's you know

Whether it's it's it's management business management

Which as I understand it you know some people were were dismissed last year after the playoffs

So what we just saw with Bruce Cassidy

A lot of teams preach accountability

Man the Vegas gold the nights they really show you if they're not happy

I'm sorry we're moving on we're making a change. So

Maybe I shouldn't have been shocked because it really does fit the bill of how Vegas about Vegas conducts business

What do you think well? It's interesting when you look at the timing of this

Not the latest in a regular season the coach is being fired that honor

Goes to the New Jersey Devils

In 2007

Claude Julian got fired with three games left and they were in first place in their division and Bruce Bruce

but

Lou Lamarillo felt you know what?

Wasn't feeling it. So we made the change. She was in term

Head coach. They won one round and then they lost in the second round to auto while that was in 2007

The centers went all the way to Stanley Cup final

And in 2000

The Devils also fired a head coach Robbie Fattoric was out

They were in first place at the time

Larry Robinson came in and it worked they won the cup

So now they were a good team, but I know Robbie had run some people the wrong way

And you know that was an organization that won the cup beforehand

So I think they just felt like hey things weren't going well

Vegas is different Vegas has been in free fall mode in their last 30 games

They're a bottom five team

In the national hockey league. You've got Vancouver worse. You have got Chicago. You've got Toronto. You've got Florida

And there's someone else I'm missing

But either way they they they've really struggled here

Now I know some people like yeah, but look at their expected goals

expected schmechted

Okay, and everyone's like well, they're PDO. I'm like PDO was just their shooting percentage and they're say percent

So if you can't score you don't get bonus points and say it's just bad luck

It means you can't score over 30 games if you have a a bad luck game for a week maybe

30 games and you're telling me your team can't score and it's just because it's a lack of luck

Give me a break. So

offensively they weren't scoring

Defensively they couldn't

Limit any they couldn't get a save obviously a lot of that's gold and it wasn't necessarily the system

And that's where I'm kind of curious here unless john torrella is going to come in and you know john

He's got a reputation of being very very cuddly with his players. If if you have things go wrong

He's very patient. I'm saying this somewhat facetiously. So

Show take off your head all of it

Yeah, you're aiding Hill and he's nothing now. I know lots of players love john torrella

Hey john torrella has had a lot of success right he

He beats to his own drum and this is how he coaches and it works for some and it doesn't work for others

I have no problem with that

But do I think this coaching change is going to magically fix everything that's wrong in Vegas

I don't know. I think to me this was a sign that they were going to get rid of Bruce Cassie anyway Jeff

And they felt like you know what let's just see if this can give us a boost anyway

Make no mistake about it. This is a Hail Mary pass. This is this is a desperation play late in the season

By and I'm glad you mentioned Lulaborello because I know that George McFee and Kelly McCrimman

Really do admire and have a lot of respect for Lulaborello not that I'm suggesting that they say well

This worked flu so it's going to work for us. I don't think that but it is an interesting

scenario here

By way of well, you know what it worked for someone that we have

Incredible respect for maybe it can work for us here

But make no mistake about it. This is this is a Hail Mary

This is one of those holy smokes

I don't know what's going to happen if we flop again in the playoffs

It may be it's going to be us

That you know end up on the chopping block. We all know how these things happen

Um, this is one of those this is one of those

situations where

It's either going to be a smashing success or it's going to be a complete flameout

But I do think that there is a lot of pressure internally from Vegas

I always think there's a lot of pressure internally from Vegas and it all starts with with Tom Folley

There is an expectation of excellence and an expectation of winning

And a one right off the bat as we all know. It's one of the great stories in the history of the NHL

And I don't think that for as much as we look at how

This management team

It haves around players

Which is we are going to do whatever it takes to put a winning team on the ice

We're not too concerned about feelings. We're just concerned about winning

I think that sentiment

obviously

Exists above

Both Kelli McCrimman and George McFee so to suggest that there's no pressure. I think is Folley

um

Again, this is a this is a desperation move now. I'm not saying that it can't work

All I know is

I've never seen John Torrella play net

I've never seen John Torrella

As a starting goal tender anywhere and I know last week on the podcast we talked about the Pacific division

And now it's the the division that's getting totally run over by its own goal tending

And to me that is one of if not the biggest problems for Vegas

But the other thing is

To I think that this coach ran his course with this collection of players as well

I know at the end of last season talking to some people that there were

A lot of players that were you know

Pretty prickly about the relationship that they had

With the head coach and I don't think that it got any better this season

This is not the suggest of Bruce Cassidy's not a good coach

Bruce Cassidy is an excellent coach and it's funny

I got a note from someone on another team in the Eastern conference today saying

Which and which Western conference bubble wild card team wants to do the most amazing thing in the world right now

Which is higher Bruce Cassidy and try to knock the Vegas Colton Knights out of the playoffs in the process

Which I had a good shuckle about Bruce Cassidy's an excellent coach

But I mean how many times have we set it before and and seen it before unless your name is John Cooper

And you coach a Tampa Bay Lightning generally you do have a shelf life and I think that

This coach had run it run his course with this collection of players

There was friction between the coach and the players that much we know for sure

Oh, yeah, well, and you know hey Bruce Cassidy's a guy who's hard on

On players, but hey, he's had success. So everybody's hard on this organization. So he could just have

I'm glad you pointed that out because everybody's hard on everybody in this organization

Like maybe that's why they're so good

But like everyone's tough on everybody in this or

Well, I'm gonna be fascinated to see you know how this works in a short period of time

This is this is not the the first time the john tortorella has taken over a team during the season right

Yeah, he he did it

He's done it twice before and

It's you know once it worked once it didn't work like it took over

And I guess Columbus isn't necessarily the best example because he took it over like your own

They fired their coach after only seven games right and then he took over

But in one of you in 2008 2009 he took over the Rangers with 21 games to go they went 12

Seven and two we're in the playoffs loss in the first round and then you know obviously he stayed in the york for another four seasons

This this is very different

Situation a Vegas is really in a funk now for for 30 games. It's not just a

A week or two week funk. This is a 30 game funk for the for the Vegas Golden Knights and

I am I'm curious. They're 1115 and or I think in that time. So I look at Vegas and

I'm very intrigued Jeff to see

Markstone Jack Eichel

Chetheater all your leaders your leaders

You've got a short period of time to get on the same page as the head coach because every head coach

I've ever talked to who's been successful says

I got to get my leaders on the same page as me and so you got a short window here to say okay

How can we get Eichel etc everybody else on the same page right that's that's what's gonna have to happen

Otherwise, they got no shot now there you know what like you look

I thought they played pretty well last night um well didn't start well

But then they they came they didn't quit and that was the thing like they didn't quit

They came back in the game, but they didn't they weren't able to get anything done the best part for john tortorella is

They're playing the worst team in the NHL in their first game the Vancouver conucks

Then you got the flames right now you got a big game against them

And then but then you got the conucks again and Seattle

So they got five straight games against specific division teams and outside of amminton, you know none of them are in the playoffs

Set yourself up for success you always look at the time like the coaches will always talk about this

When they get fired and someone new comes in right before a stretch of games that are very winnable

It's like the manager wants to make it look obviously like he's made the right choice

So you set the coach up you do you're fine right before the stretch of games that are very winnable

And you just lay that out right now think about vega some curious what you think about this um

I think the answer to this is yes

When you look at the lineup and of course they've been flat for a long time now

Are they better?

Then their record shows like when you look at this vega's team

Do you say to yourself are they really better than this because we know eventually

You know mortgaging the future is going to catch up to vegas like eventually

The bill comes and the bartender says last call and the lights go on and everybody is asked to leave

I don't know that we're at that place with vegas yet

But I really do wonder if this is just this is a team that's flat

This is a team that needs a jolt. This is a team that's better than this and here comes john twitter rela

Who's you know amongst a couple of others the master of the instant jolt to a team. What do you think?

It's a fair question. They don't have a first round right now until 2028

Um, you know the rasmus anerson trade right now has a workout. That's not on the coach right coached in trade form jam traded for so

um

I look at vegas like I said at the start right they went out and they got mitch marty the one thing vegas is always going to be able to do

Um as long as you stay somewhat competitive is it is a track

Uh free agents somewhat not but the problem is

Is

Is the way the leagues going?

Are there going to be a ton of free agents like look at this year's class of free agents

How many difference making for agents are there available Alex talk maybe and I'm not even sold

He's a difference maker. I really like Alex talk

But um, you know a 10 million dollar price tag for eight years is a big no for me

And I love Alex talk as a player, but I don't like him for that term and that and that adb

So darren rat you know is darren ratish is the name you're looking for yeah darren ratish shirt

He'd be a guy and you know he's a little bit of a late developer. There's I like a lot of his game

I still don't know mom. I guess it would only be seven years. I should you know say that's only going to be seven years now

And next year, you know, it'd be six

So there is that saving grace for uf a's that you have less chance to to have pain long term

After this summer just one last year, which I think help like you look at the history of uf a's man

The ones that are free agents that go other places like and even teams who retain guys who aren't elite that

It becomes just pain because you went too long in terms

So how's Vegas going to be able to do acquire players if the free agent pool every year isn't as deep as it has

That's going to be the challenge now. They've always been aggressive

But eventually you need something to give up in a trade if you want to get a good player and that you're right

That's going to be their challenge

So you know will it catch up with him like you look at up front door a fiebs young

You know bread hound's not old by any stretch of the imagination

But hurl and smith and ikel and stone like those guys are you know

They're they're best but ikel maybe not but the rest are you know a lot of them are best days are behind the Mitch

Mariner's had a good season, but as Mitch mariner suddenly going to jump up and be better

You hope he just maintains what he's been for a while. So that's you're right. It's a fair question

Because the the cupboards are fairly bare moving forward in Vegas

So the relationship between the players and the coach hasn't been great all season long the goal tending much like the rest

The Pacific division has been awful and

This is what life without Alex Patrangelo is

This is what like you mentioned Rasmus Anderson. You're right. Like that has not worked. That has not worked. What not so ever

Um, I shouldn't say not worth was it. It hasn't worked as anticipated

But at the end of it and we saw St. Louis do it you lose someone like Patrangelo

He ended up bringing in two or three guys. It do a piece of what Patrangelo used to do

And that's what Vegas is doing now too

And they lost Nick egg. That's life. Anzac quite big too

Yeah, Anzac quite good though

All right, that's half your defense or from when you're a dominant team. So

um

It'll be fascinating to watch

Do you think it makes a difference Jeff? Like you look at Vegas right now

It looks like they're probably on a collision course to play Edmonton in the first round

I want it to

Because I think the NHL is always better when Vegas is good

Right because they're a team that and I mean this is a compliment

They're loved in their hometown obviously

But everywhere else they're easy to hate

Really easy to hate you know a little bit of nastiness and success and they didn't behave like a traditional

Expansion franchise did

No, they didn't wait for 10 years until they made the playoffs. They were aggressive

It didn't care how many eggs they cracked along the way

They didn't care how many feelings they hurt along the way

They were here to win the Stanley Cup and that's it and I say this is a good thing

It's an easy team to get up for because it's an easy team to really not like

And I do say that as a compliment and when they're at their best

God are they miserable to play against?

God are they awful to play against like you beat Vegas like everyone's happy beat

Any any team in a in a playoffs series

But don't you not get the feeling that when you beat Vegas

There's something a little bit extra special because Vegas is good. They know they're good

There's a little bit of like a Vegas cockiness that comes along with that team

That when you beat them

It just feels so so good. That's why I've always maintained with the Colorado Avalanche

Not that you can necessarily choose your opponent

But I think like psychologically kind of like how Washington had to go through Pittsburgh

On route to win the Stanley Cup like there was that dragon to slay

I still think that that Vegas dragon is out there for color for for Colorado

That they need to go through Vegas

Once again to get to that promise you remember that series when Colorado went up to nothing

And all I kept hearing out of everybody in Vegas was

We got this series. We know exactly how to beat them and I'm like

They're up to cob like what do you know? No, no, no, no, we know how to beat them. We got them

And I was wrong. They were right

That's part of like that Vegas cockiness. It's just so satisfying when you beat them

That's why I want it to work. Do I think it'll work? No

Don't all right. I think it's too late in the season desperation move. I really want it to work

Now speaking of late in the season

We talked about it. I'll be honest for the last few weeks didn't have them on my chart at all

But the Philadelphia flyers we're recording this Sunday night earlier this evening

They win

Trevor Sieger is the overtime hero and the Philadelphia flyers are now

Two points out of a playoff spot the Montreal Canadians punch their ticket the Habs are in

Habs are closer to finishing seconder first for goodness sake. There are only four points out

A first now in the division. They've won five in a row called coffeeels red hot

Suzuki's red hot Suzuki could get a hundred points coffee'll could get 50 goals in needs four more

I didn't think you'd get ten and ten but he's proven me wrong so far is on fire right now

So they could get to you know, they're at what four points back of both Buffalo

and the Tampa Bay Lightning

And the Boston Bruins had a huge comeback earlier today

They're down three Cobb in the first period they come back win it in extra time

That's a devastating loss for Columbus. So now the updated standings in the eastern conference

It is tight because you've got the Pittsburgh penguins

I know this has the wall card race, but I want the penguins in there as well

Because the penguins in the islanders have 88 and 89 points in their

In their divisions right the islanders have played one extra game in the penguins

Boston's looking fairly comfortable in the number one wall card spot right now, but penguins 89

Peng or sorry islanders 89 penguins 88 blue jackets 88 and now Detroit

Ottawa and the flyers all have 86 points and all of them have

A game in hand on Columbus

And yeah, you got to win your games in hand, but they all have a game in hand

And you know if you look at it, Ottawa would have more regulation wins

So they beat Columbus in a tiebreaker as would the red red wings right now

Philadelphia won't Philadelphia to get in they're gonna have to beat guys

Flat out, but they're rolling there are they are red

Red hot and they do play the teams. They are chasing they play Detroit twice

They play the islanders. They play the Boston Bruins

Suddenly the freaking Philadelphia flyers have a legitimate chance to make the playoffs

And I like I'd love the diehard flyer fans

So let me know if they thought this is possible

This would be one of the greatest kind of come out from the outside

Come back wins that we've seen to get into the playoffs like when St. Louis did it

I actually went back and looked Jeff St. Louis was actually only ever

8.7 points back. It wasn't like they made that we kind of glorify that come back

It was good don't give me wrong, but it wasn't like a ridiculous amount there

And then they got in the playoffs early

This flyer team coming from where they are if they make it

This will be unread

You know who's really great in that Dallas game Sammy Erson

And that and that's a great thing, right? That's a wonderful thing

If you're yet and like good gold any performances out of Sammy Erson

That's a good thing. First of all

Just to circle back on something you mentioned there that Boston and Columbus game

From earlier on Sunday night. That's a tough one for Columbus

Oh, yeah, that's that's a really tough good on this good on the the Bruins for gutting it out

And

Can we can we spend a beat here and just mention Havill Zacka

And how good Pavel Zacka he's having a career year

Very quietly two goals and that come back. He's up to 28. He's up to 59 points

So that ties his career best

And here we are with a number of games left as well. This is the best season

We've seen out of Pavel Zacka

That was a tough one for jet grieves. So I thought was excellent comma again

Um, and I still maintain he may have already the best glove hand of Vinny Goldtender in the NHL

Don't shoot their folks. He's gonna he's gonna catch it

But what did you make of Castelic and Olivia in this one?

Well, there was Hannah Dino and Erica Branson as well

Yeah, that's like seconds later

Yeah, the Gibrancin Geno fight first of all

I want to applaud the linesman because they could have got in and it's two guys who wanted to go

Right when they when they they looked like they were gonna come in and they're like no we let them go

And so you went out and you know what they got all their shots in it was very good fight respectable

Then you go Castelic and hey, I give cast like a boatload of credit

What Olivia's toughest guy in the league and the mistake you make is when you try to go down

You just open yourself up to get fed by a few uppercuts and I've seen I know it's not trend Frederick

Get pounded on earlier by Olivia this year. He is tough man

The Lori is the one guy who got him

This year, but not many guys do Olivia super tough and I give cast like a boatload of credit trust me as teammates love it

It worked. They came back. Oh, yeah, like it's not always how many you win or lose

But Castelic's big and tough. He's not a great fighter

Technically compared to a guy like Olivia and but I'll say he took some blows and just kept coming

So I give him a boatload of credit, but that is that's a tough scrap to take if you're cast

Uh

Like him a lot loved his dad as well. That was another guy just raw bone tough. I just want

Cuz it's such a hard way to make a living and we've all seen Castelic in a lot of fights

I just want him to block more punches

I just worry for his safety so because he just like opens up and throws and let's go

so I employ I applaud his bravery and

Man, you got to have guts to say let's open up with Matthew Olivier

Because as we saw in that in that fight on Sunday, Olivier can hurt you like those punches Jason

Like he's you know bike Tyson where I was like do I punch to the back of the head

Like I'm trying to punch through someone like

That's what those Olivier punches looked like

I'm like how is he you must have like

Castelic must have like this incredibly strong like amateur wrestlers neck

To be able to withstand

Getting hit that hard that often. I just

I just want someone to like pull him aside and so okay. Let's work on blocking some punches here

I admire your guts. You're really really tough. I just want you to block some

I just want you to block a couple of them and like listen um Olivier

Like there are a number of teams. I remember don Woodell um told me this is on the air too is like

When you're in in Carolina

Is it true that you tried to get Matthew Olivier and he's like oh yeah, we tried to get Olivier for years

And then the Dallas stars

You know Jim nill has always wanted someone like that and tried to get Matthew Olivier at at different times like

Columbus knows what they have here like they have

Oh one of the best like honestly Jason like one of the best luxury items in the NHL

He can play a regular chef. There's a lot of games. He starts

You know, he'll kill penalties. He skates a right. He's the king of the jungle

Like no, everyone Rempi was going through guys

Yeah, he was until he met Matthew Olivier and Olivier was the first one to sort of stop the Rempi Express

Like mm-hmm if you want one he'll do it

I remember you know and when the crowd and Toronto was getting on Ryan Reeves

We're not fighting who was the guy that accommodated

Matthew Olivier hey, I need one you got it guy you got it

I understand it's a tough way to it's a tough way to make a living

Heems have wanted him Columbus knows what they have and he's more than just a fighter

He's a regular shift he'll penalties and some games as well like like just such a luxury such a luxury for Rick bonus to have

Yeah, well I scored you 15 goals a year right now and I know

As I'm any guys to do that now he is a trust me there's a guy who if he would have if he would have test for age of market man

He probably could have got even more right because there's because he can play

He's just he's in he's the ultimate unicorn. He kills penalties right he plays in your bottom six

And he's tough and he gives your your team a lot of space on the ice and has scored some big goals for them

But that was a that's a real tough loss the thing about the one thing the blue Jackets have struggled with the times is

And two and three goal leads they have blown quite a few than you follow a few of the

People that cover the blue Jackets just like oh my god. Here we go again. Now they they've won a lot

Don't get me wrong, but they have blown two and three goal leads more than they would like

Which is strange with the Rick bonus theme right

Yeah, well they're doing it before they wake up with with with with Dean Everson

But like the one thing that and like listen like they're getting depth contributions as well offensively

But the one thing the bonus always preached you know where wherever he went is offense starts with defense

That's where it all begins. That's where we're starting all of it like he's quite comfortable like

Well, I don't care. I got a with five we got 30 games where I'm gonna win try to win 32 to 1 games

I'm fine with that but it is leading to offense and it's not just the big guys

No, it's not just oh well cradle my train going out of Phantilly don't score

We're sunk. It's like and Johnson scoring Dan Hainan scoring like they're getting getting different a Matthew Olivier as you mentioned like 15 goals

So that's a good sign. I just know this one was a started going into this one. I was thinking man

This is a huge game for Jack Reeves

This is a massive game for Jack Reeves and I thought he was awesome

But at the end of it you only picked up a single point

Only a single

Now I want to go back to the flyers because it's actually if you look at their season on on January 1st

The flyers were in third place in the in the Metro division and everyone's like oh, you know what?

Very surprising and then

All the sudden January hit and they went four eight and three and they dropped from third in the

The Metro all the way down to 14th in the eastern conference and were nine points out of the playoffs

On on February 1st and it's been you know, it's kind of been just a slow

Track up. They were eight points out on

On the 15th of February so it's not like you you gain much ground by any stretch

Then when we came back out of the Olympic break right well, which would be the same thing

They were eight points back out of the Olympic break and they've just slowly

Grinded their way back into the race and here we are now just a month and a bit later

And there are two points out so I give them credit

There was a lot of people that myself included the kind of count of them out when I was doing my who who can slide in who would

Take it from the outside and I was like well, she's don't don't count out auto off. They can get golden in and they got some gold tending

But the flyers man I give him credit. They've been up and they've been down another on the way back up

And we'll see if they can finish it off

What's saying like a toilet seat at a stag-in dough?

Yeah, it's up and down up and down up and down all like that's and the the one constant too

Like Trevor Ziegels we get a lot of headlines and rightfully so Travis connecting you on tip

I like to log get you know, wonderful headlines. Travis and I'm and at times Jamie Driesdale as well

None of this is possible without Dan Flodar

Dan Flodar one of the best one of the best acquisitions in the offseason in a in a world right now

In the NHL where the so many gold tenders are sub 900

Here he is with like a 910 and trying like even if some of those those dark times like

Make no mistake about it. Philadelphia won some games that they shouldn't have won

And they'll be the first to admit it and they'll say yes, that guy kept us in it

Dan Flodar Dan Flodar kept kept us very much in we should mention too. They sign Porto Marton

Okay, we can after Michigan State about it. He didn't play against Dallas on Sunday

But there's like if you look at how the Philadelphia flyers

drafted

last year

Everybody's like six foot five

You know jack Nesbitt order martonko right down the goal. Look at the flyers draft

Last year everybody is massive

They have deliberately gone out to address. Okay, what do we need?

They we can have as many Michikovs and connect knees as we want here. We want such Amy Driesdale's we need size

And everybody that I think is everybody they drafted Jason

Everybody like I think the smallest player six for three

Like it's not that way. It's not just a coin sense like they're they're deliberately

Just getting well obviously scale, but they're they're out there getting size. That's what Philly wants

And the other thing they're getting right now you mentioned Bulldog and legit, but since February 1st

Samuel Urson has been phenomenal

For them. He is he's fine. He's now with his win today. He's five and oh

Yeah, today you only allowed one goal now you only faced 18 shots

I don't care his job is to stop the puck and you did it again

And so because he wasn't good for much of the season

But suddenly he's found his game here and he's giving them excellent starts as a backup

Which is what you need like you got to give your your starter some time off every now and then

And he gives him that and now I do have to ask you about goalies Jeff

And

What did what did you make of lena soul mark?

He starts on the 20 uh makes two consecutive starts

And then he's and he's like you know what tells us coach Travis Green said hey, you know

He needed some rest and I and at first I was like jeez he's played a lot

Then I quickly went and looked it up and I'm like no no he hasn't

He hasn't started a ridiculous amount of games here. That was in in such a big game

For your team that he didn't start that is that's a hard pill to swallow if I'm a senator

You

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Howdy howdy ho and welcome to fantasy fanfellas

I'm Hayden producer of the fantasy fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all things sanderson and I'm steven your bookish internet

Goofball, but you can call me the smash daddy and we are currently deep diving Brandon Sanderson's fantasy epic

Missborn, but here's the catch

Steven here has not read

Missborn before that's right. Hey, hey, so each week you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chip and along the way

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There's a saying

That's what the money's for I know everybody has their their their their own issues in the lives and I understand all of it and I think we all have

A certain amount of of sympathy and empathy for for Lena's all mark

um

But that's what the eight two five is for like your biggest game you're chasing you're hunting like what's the one thing

We've said about the Ottawa senators this year

They need a save and you know it's weird about it too like that game against the threat red wings

That was the first time

God, and I don't know how long

We saw Lena saw mark with a statement game that Detroit almost came back to to tie it

But you look for what we call the mouthguard games where guys bite down hard and say no way

No way we're not losing this thing like that was the first maybe since like

Rochester when he's playing in the hL for Buffalo

That was like the first time we saw Lena's all mark really like

Guys, I'm not we're not losing this game. It was amazing. I'm like

This is the all mark that Steve stayos paid for. This is again. That's what the money's for

That's what you expect

That's why I'm with you like I look at that and I say

If I'm the Ottawa senators, I'm like you you got to be kidding me

In some way as if you he was looking at their

organization or so I are saying

old you so

Yeah, like I'm looking at their season and so yeah his his two starts prior to this one

He faced 37 and 33 shots, which is you know, two of his top five shot totals of the season because they don't they don't face

A lot of shots to the goalies in in Ottawa for the most part, right?

Hey, he allowed he only a lot five goals and 70 75 shots. He was he was really good

Right, he was excellent in Detroit. I thought he was still pretty good against Pittsburgh

And so I'm like are you physically?

Are you mentally fatigued because of two games like usually when you're playing well

You want to keep playing keep going so that

Jason, how many times have you heard goalies complain about oh he won't put me in the back-to-back

I'm fine to go but oh the analytics say that I can't do this and the percentages and blah blah blah

But when you're roll you're right when you're feeling it

Keep me in there you're hundred percent

And hey, I understand you know and tell and everybody's different but the truth of the matter is you know

There's lots of people out there who have mental health challenges for all different levels

And they don't get the luxury of saying you know what I can't come into work today all the time

You got to go right? That's just how it goes and

I

It's it's a hard one, but I don't want to use it as a shield

It can't just use mental health as a shield trust me. I'm dealt with depression for years

Right, so and it's talked about it openly and we've discussed it

So it's not me talking out of turn here and

You know, she was able to beat her depression through tons and tons of work and dream workshops and what highly recommend

She wrote books about it for anybody who's interested in it you can look up program but I

So I'm not talking here and to be an insensitive but

There is an element of it that

There are times when you know what you got to push through and he had just played two really good games

You played excellent

I could see it maybe needed a break because you'd be getting fleeced and you get and lit up right and it's brutal

But when you and the other thing is your team relies on you you're making eight million dollars

That's just part of the job and

And if you can't handle that part of the job

That's okay, too, but you can't have both you can't have eight million and then say I can't do the job can't be both

You know, I

This morning I talked to Matt Hendricks

I'll long talk with Matt Hendricks for the for the for the hockey lay for spa that I do

And I brought up I'm not sure if you remember actually you probably do because when he was an oiler

Remember when Matt Hendricks

Blocked that Alex Gologoski shot in the groin

Dude, okay, how can you forget about it? It's there were so many and I know Matt very well

Matt's a great guy and I can his can got shattered and like I

Like when he went down he looked like the Simpson episode of when you take it in the nuts

And then you just roll over so like guys on his own team on the bench

We're chuckling because there's any every it probably every guy listening has taken one or two in the junk in their life

And I don't know why I don't know what it is about it

But when you see your buddy take one in the junk and and there's a way to say where you know what hurt

But there's not pain like I played hockey with a guy who actually lost the nut when it got pinched

On the side with with his can and trust me when he came to the bench

Like you knew it was different like you knew just hit in his reaction like most of us have gotten hit in the nuts

And you're like like you can't breathe right it feels like you're up in your stomach

But his was different and for you could kind of tell who g's that one's not that funny

But I remember when Hendrix got hit and it was the slow motion fall like they

Guys on his bench were chuckling even I and you know mad obviously had lots of fun with it afterwards

Right and he like that and trust me that can save the man because it is oh

It's hard to describe

How it feels until you get hit in the junk and don't worry lady listeners

I'm not comparing it to to labor. I'm not an idiot

But from a male perspective you take one

Under usually it's the underneath ones that get you the worst man

Like yeah, and it's just oh

It's tough to it tough to describe but every guy knows how it is and I could tell you as a dad

Played many sticks with my son you was for reshooting and I hit him

It with the you know like not shit, but I got him right there and I could see him. He paused

And then he fell over because he didn't really know he'd never been nutted before and he was just like that

It really hurts and I was and as a dad like what did I do? I had to turn around because I was laughing because I knew he wasn't really hurt

Like it's just like it hurts and then we talk about it all the time

So it's it's hard to describe and every guy is means

When I saw that I thought and and for for people that don't don't know like oligoski just hammers one

It gets it gets them in the stones and it was bad like I remember my my green caught Patrick Thorisson with that one and that caps

Fires series and like that was it for for Thorisson

Um, he didn't play afterwards but didn't did Thorisson actually have to get a testicle removed

I'm not I'm not sure about that one maybe you could you could be right. All I know is it didn't end his career

But it ended his night

Now Matt Hendrix went out and played

The rest of the night he came and never was like holy smokes Matt

He told me a part of the story that I had never heard before this morning

so

That year and you'll remember this

Neil Jakapoff like every game

Would lay on the ice

For something and the trainer would have to come out

And like all right here here we go again

And so Matt was talking to who the coach have been was it Dallas Akins maybe at that at that point

Um, and

Was it Dallas Tom McClellan maybe

Okay, so he's talking to either the coach or actually might have been talking on the trainer

And the trainer said like can you talk to nail like we can't keep going out there like this is like the players

Are starting to say things like oh great. Go again

Again, the trainer is gonna go out there and scrape them off the ice

And Matt said

I'd practice you pull them aside and said like you gotta get up

You you gotta get up like we're all expected to get up and get to the bench

We can't have the trainer coming out every single game

You know if you're in pain. Okay, like hockey's tough for all we're all in we're all in pain

When we play you gotta get up and you gotta get to the bench

and

Maddie said

It was at the that night or the next night when he got hit by golagoski

And all he could think about was what he had just said to yackup off

About not laying on the ice and getting up and continuing the game

He's like after what I said to yackup off there's no way

That's gonna stay down

But that's just it like there's there's part of this and again like I'm with you

I do not want to be

insensitive to mental health realities

There is at the same time with sports this idea of

You're doing this for your team

You gotta get up and get back to the bench

You know like this is again

What the what the money's for and what the expectation is

And although nobody will say it publicly

With the Ottawa Senators on that bench. You know hockey players

Yeah, need you you know, it's like the remember and I'll get another Ottawa Senators example

remember um

Dominic hashik and his angel hair pasta grind

When he got hurt

And the Ottawa Senators were begging him to just get even just to get on the ice to

Practice and Dom was one of those guys that had to be a you know those guys Jason like have to be a hundred percent

To get on the ice and Dom wouldn't do it. I think that costs you out of our senators a Stanley Cup

I really really do they were that good and with that cool tender

They were going to win the Stanley Cup

But you wouldn't do it and all the guys on that team were like

Thanks buddy

Thanks buddy. There goes our there goes our Stanley Cup. You won't even try

This that so that one for me was was a tough one

That was that was a tough one

Yeah, yeah

And I just you know you you look at certain times at different places and and the truth is in pro sports

You want to be able to know hey, I can rely on our guys

At crunch time and it's a hard one right and so hey

I hope he's doing well, but if he's back in that the next game

It's just kind of like come on

So that'll I'll be curious to see what that does for the for the senators and now he's playing that's a thing

He's playing great now they hadn't had good golden and he's been fantastic

The last few games like fantastic he was like his saves on larkin in that Detroit game

Some of the best saves of the year for him no question about it right like he was a big reason why they got two points

That was the main reason they got two points in that game

So that's our like like you gain that trust your team is like yeah, we got we can rely on this guy now awesome

And even the thing is like all marks should have been feeling so good about his game

That's a thing like now he's playing it

So and I and hey, I know that mental health can be challenging

I understand that

But you know at the same time and I always take you know the advice from my mom somebody who lived it

And she goes some days you just got a great your teeth and go

I do you think that there was days and she was a principal man vice principal

There's days where he thinks she want to go to school. No, she went right

Yeah, put a smile on her face. There's lots of different things you got to do and it's eight hours

You got to sometimes just got a great your teeth and push through it, right?

That's just that's just the truth about life and

That doesn't mean that your mental health doesn't matter

At all, but it just shows you that you're capable of pushing through it

And there's there's strength in that for certain for lots of people and there's tons of people every day

Listening to this pod that are going through it and they're doing it and it's awesome

So I applaud all those who are doing it all the time

Now let's bring in a pat puff for the pot patty how you doing

I'm doing great guys been glued to my TV lately and that's how it's supposed to be this time of the year

So certainly no complaints

Is every question about Vegas pad?

There's one

I'll give you one

We'll save it for the end but buyer sells a presentation of bet

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And we're running out of the questions here right the end of the season things are less, you know

Up in the air everyone's kind of determined with the trophies and all the awards and everything

But I'm trying to find some the one I got right now

McDavid currently three points up on kooch drop although kooch does have a game in hand

McKinnon is seven back but two games in hand so my question

Are you buying or selling the McDavid will win the art Ross this year?

And if not is it a two or three man race still breaks?

Well Pat kooch drop missed the games this weekend

So that gives McDavid the the three point cushion that he has

And I don't know if it's illness injuries. This is an illness

But now that's a tough one for kooch drop

So he does have one game in hand

So I'm going to say it's a two horse race

Because seven points is too much I think to make up at this time

But I can't kind of it's kooch drop because the guy was absolutely on fire

So I'll say it's a two horse race, but I am going to give McDavid like a

I'll say it's

68% chance to win it right now because he's got a lead

And kooch drop's got one last game and McDavid just seems to be on I'm going to carry the team because dry settles out both

Uh, I don't want to overthink it. Ockham's razor

Conor McDavid Conor McDavid as we've seen before I never bet against Conor McDavid

When it comes to things like this he is the get on my back as as Jason just mentioned and we're going to the promised land here

Yeah, keep it simple. We've seen Conor do it time after time and

Yet better and stronger as the season goes on. I'll I'll take McDavid on this one with all due respect

And a key to kooch drop whenever he comes back

And I do agree that McKinnon's out of this one. That's that's too many points to make up

That's fair. I mean McDavid stays on his pace. He should be fine and we're not sure when kooch drop will be back

Leading their divisions right now. Tampa, Carolina, Colorado and Anaheim obviously Tampa and Buffalo are tied

The bolts to have a game in hand. The closest battle after that is the Pacific or there's a three back

But they've played one more game

So are you buying or selling that these current division leaders will be the leaders at the end of the season Jeff

Uh, Colorado. Yes

Anaheim

jeez. I don't

Every every time I think I've made my mind up about the Anaheim ducks

It's complete. It's completely wrong. So I'm going to say no because I think there's there's still a good chance here that

That that Edmondson wins it. Although with John Torrella lightning in a bottle here

So I'll say for for the Pacific. No, that's not wrapped

Carolina Hurricanes are wrapped in the Montreal in the in the metropolitan and

Tampa still has the edge technically

Um, and you know what? Yeah, I'll say I'll say Tampa fit the only one up for grabs

Even though they're they're tied with points of Buffalo Sabres and Tampa Bay Lightning

I'll still take Tampa to win that thing the only one I'll say that I think it's still up for grabs is the Pacific

And now we have the Torrella wild card to deal with too

Mm-hmm

Well think about it. We just talked about Kutrop

So he misses two games and Tampa Bay wins both. So they're pretty damn good

Um, they had the one game in hand. It's tie and regulation

So

Yeah, I'm probably going to go with the bolts there. Carolina's had their division for a while

Colorado. Yes

and

The I'm actually going to say yes to all because Anaheim their next seven games are all against non-playoff teams

They got the Radco-Gutus

rematch and Gutus

I know it didn't play in Edmonton and he said he wants to play

Then he just wants to say let me fight someone and get it over with

He didn't like his own hit against Matthews and they play the sharks

The blues who I know are rolling so that might be tough

But Calgary's got nothing to play for

Nashville might be out of it by then we'll see and then they got the sharks again

Then the Kanox again

So yeah, I'm going to say that the ducks find a way to a hold on to this lead because they're up by three and they have a game in it

Yeah, I think that's fair and you guys

Hest for it. So here's your Vegas question

Obviously you guys talked about it Cassie out of Vegas by or sell will there be another coaching change before next season Greg's

Oh for Vegas. Oh, yeah, just oh in general obviously and maybe we won't count Vegas because that's going to happen

But oh before now is this summer there's going to be there's always going to be multiple coaching moves

I think for sure. They'll be yeah, I would but I think Vegas like I

I guess the only way torts stays in Vegas. I think is if they they go to the conference spot

I grew with that and I can see like I again

Uh, I don't I don't necessarily think that this is quote-unquote gonna work

So yeah, the I I could see this being being temporary for for John Torella in Vegas

I would wonder about someone like Ryan Krague coaches

There used to be the assistant coach there in in Vegas and now the head coach

Other AHL affiliate in in Henderson

I think the I think we're all wondering about the Toronto Maple Leafs like when you look for like

Moments where it looks like teams of kind of giving up on the coach

Go to St. Louis man the Toronto Maple Leafs

um and you do that

And that's your coaches that's the the team that your coach

You know it took to the promised land and in love with and

St. Louis and yet all you can muster is 13 shots

I don't know if there's an indication that the team is giving up on a coach. That's a pretty good one there

Um, so yeah, I think they'll be I think they'll be coaching changes and the other one too

That we haven't really had the conversation about is what happens in Buffalo with Lindy Ruff

You know

I was always into the assumption that part of the contract was coaching and then management

But now with the new general manager

Does that all of a sudden change

Like I don't know the specifics of it

But I was led to believe that it was a contract that accounted for both coaching

And then when however many years to maybe I don't know um we're up

He was going to

Take a place in management with the Buffalo Sabers

So there's another one if that is and I don't know if that is still the plan of Buffalo

So yeah, they'll they'll be more coaching changes

Yeah, the season is definitely drawn up some storylines that'll make us

Question a few things over this summer

But for now we'll focus on the playoffs as things start to get more and more exciting down down the stretch here

But that's all I've got for you guys buy or sell at bet 365

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Howdy howdy ho and welcome to fantasy fanfellas

I'm Hayden producer of the fantasy fangirls podcast and your resident lover of all things sanderson and i'm steven your bookish internet

Goofball, but you can call me the smash daddy and we are currently deep diving Brandon sanderson's fantasy epic

Missborn, but here's the catch

Stephen here has not read

Missborn before that's right hey hey so each week you'll get my unfiltered raw reactions to every single chip and along the way

We'll do character deep dives magic explainers and Stephen will even try to guess what's next spoiler alert

He'll be wrong news flash. I'm never wrong episodes come out every Wednesday and you can find fantasy fanfellas wherever you get your podcasts

Hey, you mentioned uh St. Louis. That's it that game

Tonight Monday

It's massive

Thank Lewis and San Jose

Like I don't think St. Louis can do this. I don't

But it's a lot of fun to watch

Joel Hofer making saves and it's a lot of fun to watch that top line

With Snuggaroo Holloway and Dylan Thomas and and and robert Thomas

Just dancing out there. I don't know. I've been I've been fooled before

By late season empty calorie heroics

But um St. Louis got a lot of things to be kind of excited about don't have the blue line, but

There's a lot of things in St. Louis right now that i'm loving

This game against San Jose is pretty big

Oh

Yeah, the blues are still fairly far behind, but uh, hey man, they they they don't give up any goals lately

That's uh, that's the key to them for sure now um

Before we get going I got a few things you have to to touch on is because uh here we are we're down to the final

A few weeks and you know a few of the uh the races for uh for player wargs

I think are are going to be hotly contested um the heart trophy

I think uh kutra I've had it, but what if all of a sudden he's like he's got to come back and play right if not

Then I think the kid and probably gets back in the race here uh a little bit um the maclin celebrate anything is kind of coming

Gone is going to get a hundred points going to be awesome, but the sharks have really faded down the stretch and

Um, I'd be surprised uh if he gets it um, you know, McDavid's obviously stepped up without uh without Leon dry subtle now

He's got a 27 point lead on his next closest teammate in points and no it could be up to uh 40

By the end of the season you know did does that do it for him

The norris trophy to me is the interesting one um, you've got you got werenski you've got macar

I think you've got em and booshard. You've got uh dolene you've got cider

I think you could throw in queen hues. I know a lot of people are talking about it while queen hues, but I'm like

But it's not just a minnesota wild award. It's the whole season award and I don't his numbers doesn't score enough goals like everybody else

Is put his plus minus five on five isn't the same as those other guys

So you know doesn't kill penalties. So I'm just not sure how he's really in there

But you know, I've seen a lot of people talking about the norris trophy more and so I went back and I got a whole article coming up on the history of the norris trophy

And it's always wild to see like how they vote on it, you know

Who votes here? What what what ended up with that?

I you know like the early days of it red kelly was the first winner way back in 54

And and there is no data other than goals, you know assist and points pretty much like you could watch the games

But it's not like you could even go record games like I got the nhl network job. I can watch a lot of games

But you know and and now on the internet you can see lots of different things. There's way more data

There wasn't so points were always a big thing

I don't know people try to say well, you know points don't matter

Well in the history of the norris trophy points have mattered massively. I'm talking massively

There's a few cases where a guy wasn't

Thought three and points who won but those cases are pretty rare, right? Rob Blake's 98 victory is one that will go down to me when I was researching

I'm kind of like I didn't win what like what did he do here none of his numbers are great pk suban

Do you know when pk suban won

68

Percent of his points came on the power play

The highest number ever like not even close, right um

And I think of chris latang hadn't got hurt that year. He probably would have won

So it gives me to the what about because I see can I ask you a question about that. What about?

What did you find out about rod Langway?

Is the one who do like the defensive defenseman?

Well, was he a defensive defenseman Jeff when you're a minus player? Are you really a defensive defenseman?

How the hell he won is to me the biggest like when I look back on I was watching and

The Norse trophy had all the guys beforehand. There was Bobby or there is Danny Potman like elite and scoring guys

And then all of a sudden it's like the voters said you know what

We got to give this to a to a defensive defenseman

And so they gave it to rod Langway, but I'm kind of like

Why like it didn't really make sense to me if you look at his like Paul coffee the one year when rod Langway won

What year Paul coffee had 96 points and was plus 52

Plus 52 and rod Langway won it with a minus two ranking as a quote defensive defenseman

Make it make sense like it made no sense to me those those two years at rod and no offense to rod

But when I research a Jeff it makes I don't it's clearly the voters decided

We just don't want to give it to a guy. It's got to be you've got to reward guys playing defense

Okay, but if if you're not outscoring your opponents are you really that good defensively

Um

That's an interesting one because the theory has always been around it the best way to defend is not to have the puck in your own zone

And the proxy has always been points which you only get points when you're not it not in your own zone

Because I know a lot of people look at said well, we need to have two different trophies

We need to have one for offensive defenseman and defensive defenseman

But no if you think about what defending is is not playing in your own zone

Is as a defender keeping the puck out of your own zone. So we've always used points as a proxy there

And that's why why more at citer is a really interesting one

for me like there are

Um

And you can put Jacob Slaven into into into this conversation too

What do you do with players who are do have the ability to follow the simple model of puck goes in puck goes out

Like that at the end of it like that's your job as a defender puck goes in puck goes out puck goes in puck goes out

What do you do with the defenders that are really good if you believe it that's like the key thing for a defender to do

What do you do with players who can do that?

But then can't produce

offensively

Like what's the space that they occupy has always been my question here

Through all of it like I don't necessarily need like I don't think that we need

To have a separate trophy one for offensive defenseman and one for defensive defenseman

I just don't think that we have

An accurate snapshot of what a defenseman's supposed to do

Kind of like the selky trophy

Is it for selky's hard the is it is it the best defensive forward or is it the best two-way forward

And we see a lot of us are even the even the voters you can conflict it about it

Yeah, like I've always argued the um

You know when when when people will talk about like oh, you know, he's a great two-way player

Well, that usually means he's an average player offensively

That's you know there's right like

Even when Sidney Krause who is really good in both ends no one called him a great two-way player

Because he was great offensively two-way players are usually given to like you look at Patrice Persia on unbelievable player

Excellent defensively

Never put up huge offensive numbers compared to like the elite offensive guys right so it's really good

And that's why he got best two-way player moniker um

It's it's one and so when you look at most cider and you're like and and it's a great example

And I'm happy you brought it up because I look and say okay well most cider you know what cheesy eyes are really good defender

But he's been on the ice for seven less goals than Lane Hudson five on five

So is he and he's actually been on the ice for more goals than Kalmakar five on five

So how are we defining defensive play because I know when you look at goals against or goals for and you're on the ice

Sometimes you could be on the ice and have no bearing

Possibly or negatively on a goal you get a goal against you didn't do anything you get a goal for you didn't do anything

So I understand that right

So it's one that you'd literally you now nowadays there's some really good sites like you go to puck IQ calm

It's a fantastic site because it breaks down minutes played against the best players and guess what

So if I'm a defenseman and I'm Kalmakar or I'm most cider and I'm playing a lot of minutes against the other teams best players

Well, guess what I'm probably going to be on the ice for a few more goals against against them

Funny enough, it doesn't work that way

It's actually a lot of those guys have more goals against against the mid guys

Then they do against the elite guys because I think when they see elite guys everyone's like, okay

I got to really be on my toes here, right? So it is it. It's funny that way and so

I most cider I think is really good defensively, but his defensive numbers aren't that much better the gap between his defensive numbers and

Bouchard Makar Warenski

His gap offensively is more than gap between him and them defensively

So that's why if I average it out then he still doesn't come out on on the plus side of those three

That makes sense here sort of he it does and here's something that I've as much as we talk about

um

Things like you know

Information summits or R&D camps

Do you not get the feeling because I've felt this way for a number of years now that

We need to settle on how we are going to evaluate

All the participants for these trophies

Because in a lot of ways people have their own criteria for them or their own justifications for their vote

Do you not think that for the good of and the credibility of the awards

That there should be some type of consensus that is reached for

How we are evaluating a defenseman

How we are evaluating however you want to define the silky best defensive forward or best two way forward

We can't have both

We can't have both there has to be something clear that everybody understands even something like the heart trophy

There's nothing in there that talks about your team has to make the playoffs yet

We all agree somehow that unless you make the playoffs

Not going to get a vote for the heart trophy

Like you'd not get the feeling that here we are now for the credibility of all these awards

There needs to be a coming together. It's professional hockey writers

It's a broadcast association that the managers that vote on along with some media the vesna trophy

An absolute right specific criteria of how we're going to evaluate layers

I mean they still get the vesna like what's the most important stat that that managers look at when they're evaluating the vesna

wins

wins

Right like that's it you won. He's a good goalie

Of course Kevin Woodley valley can't like all the guys the goalie fraternity. It's like

No word so far past all that

But I really do think that there needs to be some type of coming together where we could all be on the same page

About how we evaluate

What these positions do you not feel that way?

Is right now everyone has a different way to evaluate layers. There's like no consensus and

You know, it's like penalties like a high stick to you

It's not a high stick to me and a slash to you. It's not a slash to me and a hook. Thank you. You know what I mean

I make it here. I think you're

Yeah, you're always going to have that. I don't I don't want group thing where everybody has to view it the same

Right like if you can come down oh like I was I was looking at votes

And there's one year where you had three guys first like three guys who are within three votes each

Of first place votes for the Norse trophy right and you can break down their numbers

And they're all similar in some areas and then different you have strength in weaknesses

So each guy's going to have it. Um, I do think ever since 2018 when they when they put the votes public

And I'm a voter and I think it's great that your votes are public

I haven't like why would I want a vote for someone just for the sake because I don't like him or don't like his team

That's irrelevant to me. Um, it's like there's lots of people in the west who claim oh east coast bias

Well, that's not true actually if you actually look at the the vote and there's actually more west winners

The last decade than there has been east winners

But now I think it's only by two, but still you can't really claim it's a bias. Um, I do think sometimes people get caught up in reputation votes

And and I as a voter when I vote I don't care what happened last year. I don't care the year

I don't you know bob you know Jeff Merrick's been a really good defense. He deserves it. No, that's not how it works

It's who's the best defenseman that year and breeze time brought it up was like because I saw Mike Cali on a broadcast

And and I want to make sure I get the numbers right because you know

He talked about you know everyone's like all Evan Bouchard gives the Pacoay gives the Pacoay

And so they were looking at Evan Bouchard and this is courtesy of sports logic his turnover rate was 11.4 percent

Kale McCarr is 11.2 and Zach Werencki is 12.8 and

56 of Bouchard's turnovers led to scoring chances 11 of them were goals

McCarr 12 led to goals 43 to scoring chances were enski 49 to scoring chances 10 led to goals

And I find it interesting because Bouchard might have had more scoring chances

But you know fewer that led to goals in McCarr even though Bouchard's goal 10 has been way worse than McCarr

And my point is now numbers aren't nearly

The separation that you would think like when people talk Evan Bouchard

They talk like the guy never makes any good plays and so I do think at times when people look at and they talk about it

You need nowadays there's no excuse to not get as much data as possible the information's there

If you want to go find it Jeff and I think that's what's changed because as it's evolved over time

There was there was very little data to look at but the Rod Langway one and I love that you brought it up

And and I don't want to disparage Roddy at a great career

But when you look at the numbers

Just a number like remove opinion

Just look at the numbers

One guy had 96 points and was plus 52 the guy who won

Had 32 points and was minus two

How can you tell me that the player be impacted the game more and was a better defense?

But I just I'd love to know and talk to guys and trust me

I mean reaching out to guy you vote who voted that year

Because here because I know who voted first. I just don't know the votes weren't public

You don't know who voted for who but how many how many how many how many votes were there? Do you know offhand back then

I think that year might have been 66

My let me like in double check give me exact numbers because the numbers have gone up

Yeah, because yeah, absolutely because of them and other

Other people added

For the professional hockey writers they can you know lobby for other people that aren't necessarily hockey writers to be part of the voting group

58 actually my bad the first year. He won there was 58 votes. Yeah

Were they all professional hockey writers association

That they don't list off who was involved in the uh, but I think at that time it was mainly that like now

It's predominantly the writers. There's a few broadcasters and then there's some national people that get to

That's what I don't have a problem with it like you take it serious

You know what you put in your your time you everybody your names exposed there a way you go

And and that's just kind of how it is there was 62 of the year he beat coffee

Right, it was and that was the air coffee and actually know that's what so here's the second year he beat coffee

Coffee's 22 years of age

Coffee got 12 first place votes Rod Langway had 37

Paul coffee had 40 goals

126 points

And was plus 52

Rod Langway had nine goals

33 points and was plus 14

Paul coffee had 93 more points than Rod Langway and was plus

So now I would love to have known what was goals for goals against at five on five that year you can't they don't

You know, there was no stat pages around back then

But when you look at the history

pre Rod Langway and post Rod Langway Jeff

Yeah points always played a significant faster the guy who won didn't always have you know

Even lead the league and scoring wasn't sometimes wasn't even top three

But he wasn't 90 points behind someone else who won

Never pre or post those two years are the biggest outliers in the history of the Norse voting

So I'm I'm trying to and I don't know off the top of my head

And I'm going to relate it back to something that goes back even further

Um, I wonder what was happening at that time in those two seasons specifically

That earned Rod Langway all that love

All that respect the capitals

Yeah, the capitals were a good defensive team

But guess who else was on his team that year yeah

Scott Stevens and Larry Murphy two future Hall of Famers pretty good defense corner, right

Not bad. So yeah, it was just the capitals were a good defensive team

And I really think there was just and I know what happens in society where people like you know what

I'm tired of one thing

We're going to switch it up and we're going to try to get here where

You know, we don't want to just reward high flying offense. That's the that's the only thing that makes it

Right, it's the only thing that makes sense because

Yeah

Go ahead. Yeah, no, no, please finish. Please, please

Yeah, cuz that that was it like the capitals were a good defensive team, right

Those years, but the flyers who went to the cup in 85

You know, they were they were right with him and it's just you know, even Ray Bork lost

Oh Paul coffee. It's just and again, I'm not disparaging Rod. It's not his fault that he won

He didn't ask to win they voted for him. I don't take it away from him

But the voters for those two years of all the history of the Norse trophy

The biggest two outliers you'll ever see

When's this piece coming out?

Probably next week. I still got the last seven years to go like it's so you do the read and of course

The last years are harder because now there's more data

So you try try to include all the data and saying this is what I think people were looking at

Yeah, yeah, it makes like some years. It's pretty obvious who won

And there are some years where it's really tight and I'm like hey, this guy finished first. This guy finished second by six six total votes

Right, and I always found it funny some years like the ears of Daniel char one him and my green had a great battle

And you know greens numbers were really good and char one

But neither one of them Jeff were on everybody's ballot

Which was wild to me there weren't five defensemen really better that because one guy was more defensive

And one guy was more offensive

Oh, I found it funny that um there were some years where the winner wasn't even didn't get on everybody's ballot

And for listen to get on a ballot means you got to be in the top five

Yeah

That that's a weird one to one of the weird things about chara when you look at stat you never got 60 points

ever

Like his entire career never got Tory Krueger got 60 points the Bruins

Never's a dino chara one thing and this is this is always one where

You look at and you're right to some extent all the like the the raw data the

Numbers like those those are the things to tell the story

So one of the great and I think this is you can correct me if I'm wrong the best safe percentage

Ever for a season

944

All right, since keeping the stat 944 was in 1970 71 it was jacquon

We split duties with Bruce gamble and Bernie parant with the tronum A police

jacquon played 40 games and had a 944 safe percentage

But the story behind the story where he can't just look at the raw numbers and go like wow that's incredible

The deal the maple leaves had with shock plot so he can play with the tronum A police

You got to choose all of his games

He was the one that made his own schedule

Jacquo's like yep, okay, let's go through the expansion teams

Well, that will that Bruce and Bernie handle all the all the heavy lifting, but that's why I like that's why I'm always sort of as like

Okay, so what's happening in around that time like what am I what am I missing because I would just look at no hockey db

And go like holy smokes like 944 incredible

But then okay, so the maple leaves, you know, they

Convince jacquon to to play for him

Because he got to choose all of his own games

Yeah, like in worse in 1985 rodlangway one

Right yet 37 first place votes. He had 33 points Paul coffee was second with 126 points

Ray bork was third with 96 points

Danny poppin was fourth with 85 points and Phil howlsie was fifth was 77

They all said you know what we'll go over the next high scoring guys, but we're going to give it to the defensive guy first

They're clearly there is some group think there or something Jeff there had to be that's why I'd love to talk what I'd love to talk to

media guys who voted back then who admit the story and say yeah, you know what

We are tired of it, and that's okay. At least you tell me you know what behind the story

You know who would tell you the story? You know, he you know, you should talk to Farber

Talk to Michael Farber

Farber Farber Farber Farber's a guy Farber Farber and the first of all any any reason you ever

You know need to talk to Michael Farber like take it because the conversation will be spectacular

He's one of the smartest talking people. I've ever I've ever spoken to him my entire life

Yeah, that's Farber Farber. I'll give you the goods

And I've crunched the numbers on this year's Norris and I think he like I don't care who people vote for

As long as you put in the work, but and I could see how there's going to be three or four guys and and somebody

Voter A could have them one two three four voter B could have them two four three one

Voter C could have them one four two like it's

There there's lots of elements to look at that are stronger here than the other guy over here

And you know like Werenzky leads in five on five scoring. That's where the majority of the gameplay that matters

Right Quinn Hughes doesn't kill pennilies and hasn't scored any goals. I just

I don't think is you know when they talk about well look what his assists are. Okay. Yeah, look at his assists

In the time since he's been in Minnesota Evan Bouchard has two fewer assists than Quinn Hughes

So if you're gonna rape him but to be in that crazy and then they got to rape about Bouchard at the same time

So that's why Quinn Hughes. I think it'll be hard to get in

Siders a tough one. I think Ross Mastaleen very quietly. Is that a really good year in Buffalo or Ransky? Obviously Kail MacArthur

Is how to get now Kail MacArthur had an unreal October if you look at his number from November since

A lot of them draw like he was off the charts good in October and since then has as really kind of fallen back in the majority of this season

So does that matter into it right Bouchard obviously had a brutal October and it's been great since November

You got to clue the whole season. So how does that factor? I think

You know, you know, it'll come down to you probably the last few weeks because with

With eight games ago, Jeff, it's still 10% of the season

Somebody has a big final 10 games a games that what pushes someone over because

Recently always impacts the one that's the I've always made the you'll see a player who will have

Like a bad 10 game stretch down the wire and it'll scotch them for a certain vote

Like let's say like just Nikita Kuturafiq falls off the face of the earth

But if they had that same 10 game stretch earlier in the season

We shrug it off

yeah

And this go and this actually circles back to in some ways

A conversation at a point that you raised about part of relic and Columbus

Like

He got the job after seven games Todd Richards was the coach and Todd got fired because the team went

Oh, and seven the problem was it was the oh and it was oh and seven to start the season

If there's an oh and seven stretching December it's like oh man, they're having a bad December. They haven't won a game

But when you do that at the beginning of the season

We do it's a completely different gravity

But at the end of the day, it's still oh and seven

But where is that oh and seven

Like if if Todd Richards leading the Columbus Blue Jack has went oh and seven in December

Would he have been fired

Probably not

But oh and seven to start the season

He's getting fired

Now and here's the stat just for Vegas fans

John Torturella since

2014

Has won one playoff from

Since 2014 so

Maybe you know, maybe that'll change to this year. Maybe not years. Well, Chelsea. Here's the other one

How many coaches have one Stanley cups two different teams

three

Scotty Bowman we did it with three teams

Dick Irvin senior and Tommy Gorman

That's it

In the history of the NHL going back to 1917

That three times that's it. Oh, this idea that oh, he's won the cup

You know, it was how to do it. He's gonna

You got history against you. I'm sorry. Yeah, and with us as we're bringing in a cup winner

I don't know if that's a good thing

I don't think a GM. I don't think a GM's one with two different teams Ken Holland came close

He lost game seven with Emmington, but I think that was the closest

At the end of right Stanley cups really hard to I'm not sure. I'm not sure about the GM's one

But that does that yeah, I think it is

Yeah, so you're right. Hey man cups are hard like you got you have to have a lot of

Hero game players

For sure came close with the Rangers after the flyers. Yeah, Freddie Shiro came close guys have come close

Oh, Glenn's Len say there. Yeah, didn't do it. So tired man. It's really hard

Jeff great stuff buddy enjoy the week fires the fires. We're watching the fires

Maybe I love Cinderella stories you get me the right back in it. We'll see

Lamar Columbus had to do all they had to do it. There's lots of all the flat

All the all the flyers had to do is get rid of the guy that Vegas just hired

They get him to Stanley cup

Oh, well, hey there you go

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