Paranormal Gatekeeping, Part One | Grave Talks CLASSIC

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Skipping Sunday's school to explore the dark corners of his childhood church,

seeking to prove the paranormal encounters he would overhear from church elders.

Jason Faust started young on his quest for answers to the supernatural.

A search that would eventually lead him into the world of paranormal investigation

and finally into people's homes who want nothing more than to live in peace

away from the spirits that torment them.

Today we hear Jason's story of going from being a curious child to an interested adult

on a mission to help the paranormal affected.

Oddly enough it was the movie, uh, Jaws.

I saw that when I was about five years old

and it got me interested into the horror genre of, you know, Hollywood books and stuff and

I'm an avid reader always have been my grandparents like really really

pushed the reading of my grandmother with a schoolteacher.

So, you know, birthday gifts always consisted of books.

As I grew older, you know, I ventured out of the fictional stuff and started reading

true accounts of those stories and happening to paranormal supernatural experiences that

people had and it just got my curious on why it's out there.

Why, uh, why did the paranormal interact with our, uh, with our world, you know,

why are, why are we interlaced?

And as I got even older and older, I just kept going into it and going into it and uh,

about seven years ago, I just went even further than reading and, um,

started getting active in the field.

I started going to different locations to see if I could actually experience more,

uh, prominent activity and stuff that, you know, these locations had advertised and,

uh, the more active I got, so I ended up starting to do in the residential cases and

in cases for businesses and stuff around town and now here I am.

So, uh, my own business started and all that kind of stuff.

So, when you, when you started, uh, you know, getting into the, the area of doing investigations,

just, you know, kind of passively, you know, on the side, like, let's go do it, this will be fun.

Um, you know, what sort of experiences had you had up into that point?

Did you have anything or was it more just a general interest in the genre from, you know,

growing up and, and being into the books and to movies and such on the topic?

Well, when I was a kid, it was always the books and the movies and then when I started looking at,

like, true accounts, um, they're like, link in Nebraska is not big.

Um, we don't have like these really well-known spots like ILR, Kansas, as, um, you know,

you guys down in Kansas, you got that just in Kansas and that's, you know, huge town for activity,

active locations. ILR has, it's spotted all over the map over there.

And Lincoln Nebraska actually in Nebraska in general doesn't really have a lot of large locations.

But, um, as I got older and started reading more personal accounts and stuff,

um, I, I wanted to know if, like, I could ever get an experience.

And I did, uh, the teenagers stuff.

There were times where I did experience certain things.

Um, oddly enough, probably one of my first, uh, attempts at, uh, wanting to search for an experience

or, uh, uh, investigate, I guess, we'll just say, uh, was it, uh, the church I belonged to

as a child? Uh, we skipped Sunday school and went, you know, rumored around in the basement

of our church because we had heard stories at the church, you know, and, uh,

uh, so there was little things like that. We would go to different locations and count that,

that had, where we're reportedly haunted. Uh, and so,

not huge experiences at the time. I mean, there was stuff that's more likely logically explained.

But, uh, you know, as I got more and more into it, as I got more active into it,

that's when the experience was kind of started to happen.

Um, paint for us the picture of the church that you went into and investigated that,

that you went to as a child that you, you would hear stories about. What were some of those stories

and what was the setting of the church like?

Uh, it's actually, uh, it's a very traditional church, you know, the worship area is a maze.

Um, and I have four people who don't really know what the name is.

It's designed as, if you, if you're at the bottom of a pirate ship,

and that ship is upside down, so like the ceiling is, uh, rounded and kind of comes to the point.

Um, and so very traditional, uh, big pipe organ, uh, you know, our traditional hymns,

was of the modern, uh, upbeat rock music, kind of, uh, more modern churches and stuff. But, uh,

you know, you had your A15 service in your 1030 service on Sundays and in between the service,

all the elders would go down for coffee and donuts and, you know, as a kid, you listened to the

elders, you kind of used drop on the conversation, it's just what you did and, uh, there was times when

some of the office workers who were there throughout the week, or, uh, there was a janitorial guy

who lived in the church and, and just cared for the church all around. Uh, they would talk and they're

like, you know, well, we heard this down that hallway on Wednesday or, you know, footsteps,

or we'd hear a door bang and nobody else was there. It was those kind of things. It's a real

notch lot of things and they would kind of joke about it or, you know, oh, Alice, were you trying

to scare me on Thursday afternoon or that type of thing? And so we got really interested.

And so I think where we heard them talk about that they heard these footsteps or the disembodied

whisperers or the doors banging or whatever, that's where we wanted to be. And it was me and

another buddy at the time. And, you know, I'm trying to think how old I was. I want to say the

church is getting towards about 150 years old. Uh, I know we, we celebrated when I was younger that

it was the quad. I'm going to butcher this thing. Quads, Quads, Quads, it was 125 year anniversary.

Well, however, that's a nut seed. Yeah. I'm not even going to adapt it no more because,

well, anyway, yeah, 125 year anniversary when I was a little bit younger. Yeah. It should be

coming up on 150. So it's fairly old. The outside is really pretty neat. I mean, when you pass

it, it's made out of that Indiana limestone. So it's kind of cool. It doesn't really look like a

castle. But, you know, it's one of those churches that you're like, if it was run down, it'd have

like, be perfect. Yeah. There's a historic element to it. The fact that the building is, you know,

about 150 years old, it's going to look dated, you know. But, but, but in a real classic sense,

you know, it was built to, to sustain itself for that long. And the fact that it's still there,

you know, you know, it is a testament to its building. Um, so you, you, you'd hear these stories.

And I can, I can picture these sort of things too of what that, you know, must be like,

like, was the attitude when you heard the elders talking about it, were they talking about it

in a way that they believed the church was haunted or were they just kind of poking around at each

other? They all kind of had these experiences. But if they all nervously joked about them,

maybe they're not real. You know, that, that, that sort of attitude. I, you, I think it was,

it was that what you said the last time I say like, it was their way of rationalizing. If they

kind of nervously joked to each other, yeah, it was easier to pass it off and, and not address it

or whatever. And, um, I think people, it's kind of taboo, having the haunting within the church.

Um, some people sit there and go, well, I check religious though, ghost hunt in the church,

you know, whatever. And, um, you know, hauntings don't discriminate,

hauntings are where hauntings are going to be. Yeah. Um, and, you know, there's, there's in many

different areas. There's a lot of people think you're only going to get the hauntings at night.

You know, that's why those, uh, investigators field researchers and stuff do these overnight

investigations. Well, spirits and ghosts don't keep clock. You know, so you can have just as much

activity during the day that you can. I, uh, typically why we go at night is because we can,

uh, have a little bit more control over our environment. It's quieter, most people are asleep.

And, uh, you know, you, you get less false positives, stuff like that. So, I think

it was like you said, it was just easier to like kind of chuckle it off and not have to

address it if they just made a silly joke about it. Did you ever have any experience

his first hand at the church when you would want to go and get to some of these places where

you're hearing these accounts happening? At the church, no. Um, and it's so funny because,

you know, that anywhere they said that there was activity was where we wanted to be.

And so we would go anywhere that they had said that there was some kind of happening.

And we, we really never had any experiences, um, in the church, but a couple of blocks down from

the church. There had been an incident. Um, oh, it escaped me now when the, when the years were,

were, and whatnot, but there was a shooting on the corner, a couple of blocks down from the

church. And it's in several books, uh, local books. And, uh, the young man who was shot on that

corner and it was kind of just like a, uh, I really, I want to call it a drive-by, but just,

he kind of got caught in a crossfire. And he died on the corner and, um, there was the, uh,

kind of the myth that he had written a message in his own blood on the southeast corner.

Um, Eric, excuse me, I think it was the northeast corner. And so they say like on a still day,

if you go and stand on that corner, all of a sudden the cool breeze will blow over you.

Um, or if you take people down there and tell them to walk all four corners, they'll walk three

of the corners and then walk around that one. And so I can't say definitively if we really had

an experience in that intersection because we would skip Sunday school and go to that intersection

to see if we could experience something. Sure. Um, but over the years, I've taken people down there

and it is actually true. I would say up to 75% of the time that people will walk around that

northeast corner where the, where the young man was shot. They will, they will walk up on all three

other corners of that intersection and walk around that one. And they're unaware of the story when

they're doing this, I'm assuming. I, yes, I will not tell the people I take there. Yeah.

I won't tell them this story until after the fact. And so it's kind of interesting to see that,

um, that it's the same corner every time that they actually walk around.

You ever ask anybody like, when you've done that before revealing the story, you know, is there

a reason why you didn't go up on that corner? Do you ever get any interesting responses?

Or are they even aware that they, they took those actions that way?

Um, no, actually surprisingly, they just like, they, they just, it's kind of a natural move.

They just go around that corner like people, you say, why did you not step on that corner?

And people will go, I don't know, um, just went around it.

Sure. But, and you, you could actually like kind of push the point like what you went on all

the other three corners and they're going, I don't know. It's like a natural reaction. And I try to do

this, um, you know, there's different experiments. You, you, you run into this stuff and one of our,

the big things is it like, I, I continue to go back to the Velis Gaxe Wonderhouse. Are you from

OU with that? Yes. In Velis Gaila? Sure. Um, a couple of years ago, we were up in the kids bedroom.

And I had about four friends with me and my wife. And we were, there was, other, it was a day

visit. So there was other people in the house. And somebody was leaned in against the door frame

of the closet. And there was a couple kids in the bedroom that were pushing a ball around and

asking the kids to interact with them. And all of a sudden this person who was leaning against the

door frame of the closet kind of got to like stood straight up and then kind of like, you know, uh,

shook their head a little bit. And uh, somebody said, are you okay? And he goes, he goes, why, I, uh,

woozy. And my head feels tight. And, you know, and me, I, you know, I made sure he was okay,

but then I was like, okay, I want to see what's going on. So I had everybody take a turn standing

in that closet door. And I, every, every time I go back there, I, I do this experiment anytime,

anybody who's in that room, I said, can you stand in that door for me and tell me what you feel?

And that was about 50, 50, about 50% of the people will feel some kind of sensation, whether it's

a little bit of headache, pressure, their ears, woozy, wobbling knees, whatever. And about 50%

people will go, uh, nothing. And those are the kind of experiments that are really fun to like

run because it's like, you don't tell anybody any information thought after the fact. Sure.

What do you think that is? I mean, there's a twofold to this question. Is it that, that there's

just, you know, a certain percentage of the people that are, are sensitive and able to pick up on

on these sort of things? And some people just don't have that, that ability. They're, uh, you know,

it's like hearing, you know, some of us can pick up on certain frequencies that others can't,

or smell, or taste, or all that. I kind of feel like being able to pick up on the paranormal

is like that too. I'm like a one to 10 scale. Like one is, I feel a little eerie and 10 is like,

I can see the dead people across the room. Um, and, and there's everything in between too. Um,

and you can even be a zero where there's like literally nothing, no matter what's going on.

When, when someone is in fact picking up on that and you have, you know, a certain amount of

people that, that, that can go into those areas that are likely sensitive to some point and,

and are feeling that, what is that? What, what is, what is that spot where it's, it's consistent,

it's always there. It's that that you're seeing something there or hearing something coming out

of that area, but that spot seems to be radiating some sort of energy or, or sucking in some sort

of energy. Um, you know, you hear the word portal and such thrown around. I don't know if that would

be applicable to this case or not. How would you define little places like that that you described?

I, you know, I would call them like little hotspots. Um,

I, your analogy was really good, you know, like the scale from one to 10. Yeah. Um, and I,

I agree with that. I've never really heard of that way in that, um, that scale,

but I think that's very true. And I think that's why, you know, of all the places that I've done

experiments like that and, and I get these different kind of percentages. There's never been a

place where it's like 100% everybody gets something. And it, I think it's very individualized.

I, there are people who are believers, but they don't want to experience it. And so they're,

their fear kind of goes into this overdrive. And they tend to rationalize. Sure. And so they could

have this, uh, defining experience. And they will rationalize to the point where they may even mix up

a timeline of events in their head to make it so it wasn't paranormal. Does that make sense?

Sure. Yeah. I mean, people will do all sorts of things, especially when they recall their

memories, uh, which can skew either either way. Sometimes it can skew to make it more scary and

more dark than it really was. And sometimes it'll downplay it as well. It's just more so it,

it's like what's going to be what that individual can handle?

Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that like some people kind of really close itself off to

and experience some people on the other hand want to have something so badly.

That's something very logical that would happen would be paranormal for them.

Sure. Now on that other, on, on, I guess,

that's why I don't say nothing when I'm, when I'm doing this, when I'm taking people with,

you know, I want them to know that we're going to a paranormal location, you know,

or something that's been known for activity. Um, I'm not going to just get a spring in on them

and then have that big terrified or, uh, put off or anything. Um, but I don't want the power

of suggestions, suggestion to play in either. Um, I, I really am a big believer in power of

suggesting. Um, if you're, if you're on location and you see something, you hear something

yourself or whatever and you just stop and you're with, you know, four or five people and you

say, did you, did you see that? Did you hear that? Whatever you experience,

everybody's a titan, everybody's adrenaline is, uh, everybody, you know, all those chemicals

that make you feel good, you're, don't want to be in your Nora forever and everything that

makes you a titan is like elevated. And so people who didn't really experience something might

just go with that, uh, group hysteria that power of suggestion and say, well, yeah, I thought I did

when really there was nothing really there. Mm-hmm. And so I try not to really put that in

anybody's head. Um, if that makes sense at all as well. Um, no, I don't want people

uh, going in and, and I, they, you have to go in with an open heart and an open mind

and tell the experience happen. Yeah. Now I, I, I completely agree. Let's talk about, uh,

some locations and I want to talk about, um, some of the residential stuff you've experienced

when you've gone into health. And I want to talk even more about the church a little bit too.

And just locations in general that seem to be more of hot beds than others. But before we get

back into the, talking about the church and things of that nature, let's talk about, um, residential

hauntings where it's not necessarily you're going to, you know, the Vasilah axiomerter house,

which is, you know, it's set up to be investigated. It's not like actively having a family

being tormented in the home. Please get this out, you know, sort of thing. I view it more of

almost like a research grounded in any place that is like that. That is almost, you know,

it's been rescued by investigators from the wrecking ball and is now being used for paranormal

research and furthering investigative work without the pressure of we need to get this family

safe. But on the other, uh, end of the scale of investigating are those cases where it is not

just for fun. Um, it is, uh, it is for trying to help someone out. And I think sometimes those

lines get blurred, especially with new investigators that jump into all of it almost with the same

attitude of going to someone's home, not really knowing what they're doing versus going to the,

you know, paranormal tourist type location, uh, that you rent out and there's not other people's

lives on the other side of this, at least on the living sense that are going to be affected by what

you do in that location, whether you know what you're doing or not. Um, when, when you jump into a case

that is residential, um, obviously there, there's a beginning point to that for everybody. Um,

how did you decide, you know what, I'm going to take this interest that I have, uh,

and I'm going to actually use it in a way of, of going to try and help out people in their own homes.

And what was your goal when you started doing that?

Well, it was my goal, first of all, uh, it was set before I even started doing business as

residential cases because, um, my goal was to, like, lessen the fear in the field and, uh,

try to set rightness conception that we're put forth by Hollywood. Um, Hollywood is predicated on fear.

Uh, and rightly so because, you know, Casper the Ghost movie was great, but it was a one-time deal.

Uh, uh, you're not going to make a movie out of a, uh, Ghosts and other dishes in your laundry and

make a blockbuster. But you, and it's the truth because if you, you know, you, you got the,

Annabelle, you got $100, you've got the, uh, the Conjuring, uh, exercise on movies, you know,

uh, the exercise, Emily Rose, all these. Sure.

Every, all of these ones that are like predicated, people want to be afraid. They, like,

it's an exhilarating feeling. Um, that's why the horror movie genre is a money-making genre. And so,

the only thing is is that it puts forth a lot of, uh, misconceptions because people take this stuff

as fat. Yeah. And so when you're active in the field and you're trying to, like,

separate fiction from reality, it does get kind of frustrating. Um, and a perfect example is

the movie Polterguides. Um,

great movie. Um, it was a very entertaining movie. I loved it. Um, I like the old one better

than the remake, but older guys, it's self. I mean, you take it. It's two German words that make

it a piece of prefix and suffix. And I probably will, but you're the pronunciation of the first one,

but it is, uh, poultry is, uh, noisy, uh, in German and geysers go. So it's just noisy ghosts.

Not to do it demonic or evil or whatever. Sure. And so that's just like an intelligent

haunting in your home. Uh, and Polterguides' activity is, is one of, um,

an honoree spirit that might move your keys, that might flick your life, that might turn

on your cap, stuff like that. Uh, it's, it's really not evil like the movie said it was. So,

getting into why, when I started doing these, uh, residential and business cases, um,

the number one thing was to help people, but honestly, where I believe that, uh, demonic and evil

and malevolent, uh, energies do exist. There's so far a few in between. Um, your chances of running

into something actually evil is, is small. Your chances of running into something demonic is even smaller.

And chances are that you, you, if you do have a ghost spirit, rage, whatever you want to call it

in your home, um, chances are you can like coexist with that interview in your, in your living space.

And that's one of my first questions when I get a, uh, residential case is,

where is your level of fear? Are you, because for somebody who's not in the field, the idea of

having a ghost in your home is frightening in itself. But that is a different fear.

Um, then if you're like fearing for your safety or your family safety, you know, uh, the

vase flew off the top of the shelf and across the room and almost hit, uh, my wife or my baby

or something, you know, that you're kind of fearing for safety, you know, but just the idea of an

energy in the home is that's a different kind of fear. So you can build off that and almost

all my cases have been along those lines. It's like, you know, I hear the footsteps up and down

the stairs. I hear something in this area of that area. I hear whispers, whatever. And I'm like,

okay, we'll pull like what, what are you afraid of? What are you, um, what is terrifying about this

and what the answer usually comes back, it's not terrifying. It's just scary of having a ghost in

that house. Sure. So, um, a lot of times when I go on residential cases, though, extremely easy

to, um, debunk a lot of stuff, explain a lot of stuff logically. I did a house here in Lincoln,

not that long ago, I wanted to say about a year ago. And it really was, it was, I was

honored to do the house because it was beautiful. It was very old over, uh, it was well over a hundred

years old. And, uh, they were here and dragging noises, dumping noises, footsteps, all kinds of

stuff. And I went over there. They took me upstairs. There are like, it's coming from these attic

spaces. There was three entrances into the attic. And they crawled into one of these entrances.

And between the joists where these, uh, one by fours, they were kind of

created in a makeshift floor. And I'm a big guy. And I crawled in there and I was about, I don't know,

15 feet, 20 feet in there. And realized that you have on these 100 year old one by four,

and they're creaking and groaning. And I'm going, this is way scarier than any ghost all over

encounters. I'd better back out. And as I was backing out, I looked over and I had my flashlight

trained right there. And there was a large hole, uh, with copious amounts of racoon crap.

Mm-hmm. And what had happened was the racoons were getting up in between the, uh, the outer

shell of the house, the sheeting. And the, it was plastering that. Sure. And so, you know,

that's a lot of space in there. And so they were getting up there and they're taking these big

pieces of styrofoam, um, that was used for insulation in the attic. And they were chewing it,

and they were dragging it. It was making a pump in and dragging noises. And it was just that going

to the house. And so very easily explained case. Um, and they were happy with the outcome. You

know, I give my number of a company that takes care of animals, you know, larger wild animals like

that. And they were very content with the outcome. And a lot of the cases end up being like that,

where, you know, well, this is what you got. And it's really nothing paranormal. Sure.

A good referral thing would be to be make up some sort of a deal with a exterminator in some cases

in the area going, Hey, every referral that I bring to you that they think is haunted, I get

15% of whatever you need to do. You know, you can probably make a living just doing that. It's

like, think you got a ghost. Think again. But, um, but, but the thing is sometimes there are

obviously things that are going on in the house that are not raccoons getting into the ceiling.

And you're able to narrow all of that down and go, yeah, there is something else here.

When it's not something that is, is demonic or super dark, and we can talk more about that in

a few moments, but when it is something that seems to be more peaceful, more of an earth-bound

spirit, maybe it was a former owner, maybe it's a family member that's watching over. What,

what do you do? What is your duty as someone who is investigating in the house, the family saying,

we don't like this. We really don't care who it is, whether it's my mom or dad, it's troubling,

it's scary, even if they don't intend it to be. Are you there to try and eradicate this? Are you

there to try and help them just make sense and identify what's going on? Is it just kind of case

by case on, do you ask the owners, do you want me to try and get rid of this, and if you do,

what do you do? My role is mostly identifying and confirming, and after I do that,

then we move into kind of a referral stage. We look at all our options,

and then if they do want something, if they do want to have an extraction, a cleansing,

a blessing, whatever it is, then it's a beautiful thing about being in this field

and working closely with a lot of different teams with a lot of different skillsets,

because I personally don't do cleansing, cleansing, extractions, whatever.

But if we get to that point, I pick the best came I believe for their job,

and I refer them to that case, and then they move along into that, whether it's cleansing,

extraction, blessing, there's different ways to go about it.

And a lot of it depends on the client's, their belief system,

religious and spiritual belief system. So I could come in and confirm it and say somebody's Catholic,

I actually have two cases where they're like, well, thank you, we're done.

They go ahead and call the church, and they're going to let the church handle it from there.

There's been times where, well, okay, one pops into my mind where

the, it was pagan practices. And so I was able to call a team out of Des Moines,

and they were able to come in and do their thing, and the client typically

will leave happy. Now, when we get to that point of discussing options,

most people, if you explain that this energy means no harm, that they're just there,

one of the first things that I'll tell people is, you may feel stupid doing this,

my wife had to do it in our house because we actually have an energy,

resident energy in our home. But she doesn't like the reminder, she does not like the paranormal,

at all. I shouldn't tell you, she loves the history part of it, and she loves being old-billing,

she doesn't like the ghosts and the dead part. But you address the energy out loud,

and if you just say, hey, we know you're here, and a lot of this is like, you do research,

find out who it is, as a respect factor. And you address it, just say, we know you're here,

we know that you're sharing our space. We're willing to coexist with you,

just we don't want all the reminders that you're here, like constantly. And more often than not,

that activity will exponentially drop after you can respectfully

address that spirit or that energy. And you know, if people do decide to

sage, if they want to use items like Palo Santo, stuff like that, they just have to understand

that that's not a cleansing. Those kind of stuff, and I'm not real big in the metaphysical,

alternative healing type stuff. But you know, like the scientific parts to say,

is why you feel better after you say it's kind of like an anomaly in salt rocks. It lowers

the positive ions in the air and raises the negative ions, which in turn make you feel better.

You know, it's your energy goes up. And so it's not a cleansing, it just shifts the positive energy,

it just makes it more positive energy in the moment. That's how the Palo Santo, stuff like that

work. And so I'll make sure people know that, like this is not going to get rid of your energy,

it'll just make it. The overall energy of the home positive. Yeah, I mean, in some cases,

it's almost just like you turned your windshield wipers on for a minute, and it's still going to

be raining. So it's going to, you're going to need to turn them back on again, because that's not

truly the solution to stop the storm, the way to stop the storm sometimes. There isn't one,

it's either get out of the way of it or or do something that that can shield your windshield

from getting water on it if you don't want that rain to be hitting it. So that's an interesting

way of explaining kind of how, how some of those practices work, whether or not, they're not

truly the, the end all be all of cleansing a home or something of that nature, maybe temporarily,

but, but not necessarily a permanent solution. That wraps up the first part of our conversation

with Jason Faust in part two has Jason ever been in a situation where the houses spirits were so

dark or even demonic that he did not know what to do with them. Does Jason think that demonic

or dark forces may only come out for those capable of handling them? Our certain areas that don't

seem to have a lot of reported activity genuinely null and void of it, or is it more of a situation

of the living trying to avoid accepting reality? And can a false ghostly legend take on actual

paranormal activity attribute to do to mass interest or tampering in the area of the reported

legend? Until next time, for the Grave Talks, I'm Tony Brucekeen. Thanks for listening.

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