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Hello, our wonderful, wonderful audience. Here we are again. It's the
Breggins, Dr. Peter Breggin. Dr. Peter Breggin. And Ginger Breggin, I folks, this is the
Breggin hour. And I'm Peter Breggin, recovering stroke victim, and I want to tell
people I'm doing better and better and better, and that they leave clinic
hyperbaric oxygen. Hyperbaric oxygen clinic was ginger feels just turned the
corner for me from a guy who was barely speaking to my real self who was here
today. My real self is here today. Thanks to Ginger taking me down there. And I
think my real self though came out not as certain about the hyperbaric as I
am about what all the efforts to Ginger was going to. When you see the love of
your life expending herself as I did first to save my life and then to save
the quality of my life. The motivation of loving her just made me decide I
wasn't going down with this stroke. I was coming back from it. And I deeply
believe we are more than our brains. And I'm learning it firsthand now that I am
more than my brain. I can't tell you exactly what it is people have puzzled
about who we are or spirits or souls. But I believe with beings made in God's
image. And one of the conclusions I'm coming to more and more that I'll share
with you today is a little extra something. We have a great guest and I'll tell
you about her right now. And then I'll tell you a little bit about what I've
been thinking about love. It's like a little ordough. You want to take a minute
and do the love and then we'll come back and come back to our guests and we'll
show our guests. Yeah, let me do that. All right, good. Because I have a lot to
think about lately with love coming through the stroke and going through
recovery now. And having such so such a blessing in Ginger Breggens loving me and
supporting me. And one of the things that I kept puzzling over was how hard it
was for me to describe love. I mean, most descriptions of love come out of
poetry or or old songs or songs. Another kind of poetry. Yeah, songs, old songs or
songs. But to just sort of talk about it, I thought well, let's start with that.
That's a major character. The accusation of love is that it's ineffable. Ineffable
meaning difficult to express in language. And I think that what makes love
ineffable is that love of any kind, for artwork, for looking at the moon and the stars
at night or sitting in the woods or standing on a mountain and just seeing it or bird
watching. For me, watching the birds come and go from bird feeder and sometimes a flock
of golf inches or maybe three families or cardinals. Just amazing to see that that's
kind of ineffable for me too. And I think it's because love is a direct connection with God.
That God wants us to love one another. He wants us to love creation. The New Testament talks
about I'm Jewish. That's why I call it the New Testament to distinguish it from my old one.
The New Testament is very, very clear about what Jesus has to say and that what he's come to say
and he's come really to kind of stand out for love the way no one and no place in the Old Testament
does and comes to say I'm giving you a new commandment to love one another as I love you
and that love you have for one another will be your page who you are. And I think that the reason
why love is ineffable is it participates in God which for all of us is ineffable.
I think that it is what God wants us to do to love one another and when we do it God gets close
to us and it's present in our lives. And I think it goes hand in hand ginger's being close to me
and loving me and helping me through the stroke in ways that she's just made the first priority.
It's one of the first things I heard as I came out of like a dreadfully confused at the end
of the stroke because I didn't know I was having a stroke. I thought I was having seizures.
The doctors thought you were having seizures. And they overdosed me with a drug that
gave for seizures right on top of the stroke. And I just had went to a state of confusion
and I said I came out of it. I had to literally identify ginger for who she was. It was very
confusing to me. I was this person taking such amazing care of me. I didn't know where to categorize
or understand her. I never had such an experience. I think that for me more than what I
wrote, whenever I've told a story of her meeting ginger, I talk about everybody knows me well.
It's her this story. I've talked about how I just fell so in love with her. It scared me to death
and I avoided her for approximately 10 years until fate, which I think is God's hand.
One of my ex-girlfriends told Ginger that she knew me and they got to talking about me and
she was very private. She never disclosed she'd been your girlfriend. She just said you were a
great reference for her as a journalist. And then she told you I was coming out to Los Angeles
with a TV show. It's when you were out in Los Angeles. Yeah. And that's how I met up with Ginger
again. I called her because I got a number from this old girlfriend, quite recently old girlfriend,
a lovely lady. And I spent about two days with Ginger. But on the first day,
I asked her to marry me. I said, I don't want to do it, lose you again. And I'm just really all
love I felt for you before. And you said, yes, you have to get over it. No, I said yes right away.
Believe me, I wasn't going to let that pass me by. Then it was all logistics after that, sweetie.
And we've been together now 40 years. What a 42 years. That was 1983. No, yeah, I know it was 1983.
And then you came east and we at the end of 83. And then we
agreed to get married and we did in 84. In July 4th, 1984. My new mental kind of a date
from the book and from Liberty of America. In July 4th, 1980. And together ever since,
I made this great discovery though that when I came out of the confusion surrounding
my stroke and I tried to figure out who you were. And I realized that what made you seem unfamiliar
to me was how loving you were and how just generally focused on me you were. And you would
made a decision that your whole life was going to be about making sure I survived and that I got
maximum recovery which meant you would take it over my medical care basically and my mental care.
And I realized that what probably scared me into not seeing you for 10 years took up
with us together again. One of the things was that actually I probably sensed that you loved me
in a way that I was totally unfamiliar with. And I'm prepared to deal with wasn't that I was so
loving of you. It was that you were so loving of me. But it was not in my category of things to
explore. A woman who was as loving of me as I was of her when you were just so to me. Such an
amazing. Well, we got married and there was a lot going on everything. So our lives were just
full of your reform work and our kids and you know learning to deal with all. Learning to live
together and you know who was going to get the closet that was in the bedroom and I gave it to you.
I needed a bigger one. I don't think I have a news issue. No, it wasn't. I just decided you're
getting the closet in the bedroom. You were very sweet. You cleared it out for me.
Well, I just tried to set the house up for you. You really did. And I think you forgot a lot
of that right after the stroke. So I, in addition to looking after how you were being treated and
working on just reconnecting personally so much, I became your historian for your personal
history while you while your brain knitted itself back together. So those first three months we
spent just your resting and beginning to heal before we heard about the weave clinic. That was
by the way, that's a feminine metaphor. My brain is not knitting itself together. It's hammering
itself to back together. Okay. I can practically have a clanking in my ears.
Well, anyway, I think that those first three months were really helping you to reconnect with
your own history. I gave you the conscience of psychiatry, which is the book that our nonprofit
published that we published with our nonprofit. Under your direction. Under my direction.
And the conscience of psychiatry really documented your reform work. It was very valuable.
But it always be wonderful people saying wonderful things about me. But in the way, you know what,
we have another wonderful person with us today. Oh my god, yes. And I want to bring to. Yes,
I want to bring her in. Okay. Go ahead and introduce her. Okay, it says right at the top of the page.
Meet Jen Schmitz, therapist and holistic mental health pioneer. What interests me so much about
Jen. And despite ignoring her, which is hard to do because she's very beautiful, very brave. Okay.
She is a holistic, describing, deep prescriber consultant. She does what I do. She takes people
of psych drugs. That's a very brave thing to do if you're not a physician or if you are.
But if you're not a physician, you get attacked for doing it by psychiatry and by other non-physicians.
Who don't want to take responsibility for changing the world? One patient at a time.
And when they may, yeah, that's, that's really true. I think a lot of it is.
They're doing it one patient at a time. It is. Because that's what you're doing, Jen. And
a bless you for. Thank you. Thank you. I told Jen that many years ago, when speaking through
an audience of therapists, I said that if any of them got in trouble as, as non medical therapists
for taking people of drugs, and I would, without charge, become an expert on that day.
And I think only one person has ever called me and said, I am in trouble.
So I think that non prescribers are doing, I mean, non... Deep prescribers. This is my brain
hammering while I'm trying to talk. My brain's been hammering, yeah, for two and a half years
with this like drug withdrawal I've gone through. So I'm listening to you talk and I'm thinking,
yeah, the symptomology that you experienced after your stroke is so very similar to not only the
things that my patients go through when they are trying to deeper scribe for medications, but myself
as someone who has been trying to get off of an SSRI after 25 years of use. And
the cognitive decline is just, it's, it's unsurmountable. I can't even describe.
You said the word historian before ginger and I'm sitting here thinking, I wish I had one of
those in my life too. Not only recently in the last couple years of trying to touch her at off
medication, but one of the biggest issues that I have is such a little memory. I don't remember my
wedding day. I don't remember the births of my children. Oh, do you? You know, I don't, it's so
difficult. I don't remember big vacations where I went somewhere tropical and you're there a whole
week. It's like these memories never imprinted on really big things in my life. And that goes back
all the way. That's very interesting that you think it didn't imprinted to begin with in the
long memory. Yeah. That's what it is, I think. Yeah. We don't get one while in these drugs, we don't
engage. We don't recall vividly. We don't. And I can't read have those vivid recollections.
And now I have to put so much intention into a moment just so that I can try to remember it
longer. This is the effects of the withdrawal. Right. Right. You'll recover from that. That's
yeah. It's going to be a gradual recover. I've learned that I have to. Right. I've learned I have to do
that. But going back historically, being on a psychiatric medication, being on a LexiPros since I was,
I think I was about 17. My medical records say I was about 17. I can go back and that past all
that past memory. It's just not there. It's I can't pull it. I can't look at photos and go, oh yeah.
It's like a lot of it is lost on me. No, that sounds like it's the same as some of my acquaintances
from high school that I've been in touch with from time to time. Some of whom got involved with not
psych drugs, but street drugs. Sure. Back at that point in time over their youthful adulthood.
And they have lost memory too for all that period of time. Yeah. I think that's pretty.
The memories from being laid down the drugs.
Just into fears with the whole process of engagement and recollection.
Right. Right. And how we store things. I mean, it's hard to really store a memory and to really have
that again imprint when you're not actually present. You're there. I mean, you're there physically.
I was there at my children's births. Trust me. Yes, I was going to say.
You know, like I and I can remember a few things right from from that day and those those days.
So I mean, I know I was there, but if you asked me to go back and just recount that the times,
my children, the time they came into the world, I couldn't tell you. I couldn't tell you what was
happening around me. I couldn't I couldn't tell you the smells. I couldn't describe to you what my
husband was doing. All things that you would think you could. We're at a break. So we'll be right back
in just a couple of minutes. This is Dr. Peter McCullough. You know me from America Laugh Pulse
and the McCullough Report. Well, I'm inviting you to join me in Nashville July 2nd, 3rd and 4th
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And we're back with Dr. Peter Bragan and Ginger Bragan for the Bragan Hour on americaoutloud.news
where you can go and hear us live when the show first airs on Saturdays and then again on Sundays
at 4 p.m. Eastern time. Jen, you want to continue? Let me just finish a little more on that.
And then the show goes out everywhere. Their shows go pretty much. Yes, they do. It goes to podcast
on Monday and it goes to go to your go to your favorite podcast platform and look up the
Bragan Hour. Yes. And you'll find it. And that's us. That's us. And what is this?
Spotify. Spotify. Spotify carries us and the interviews, the radio show, the Bragan Hour is
also carried on our page on americaoutloud.news so you can find back episodes there.
And I bring the show out each week on our substack. And then our substacks are archived
in our substack page, Ginger Bragan. Exactly. Which is probably where most people hear us.
I think most people actually Malcolm said he got thousands and thousands of listeners live on
Saturday and Sunday. So we have people listening live there and then people listen to the show also
if they don't go in on Saturday and Sunday. They can hear us on Spotify when I release the show on
Spotify, which usually comes a week later. Spotify carries every Dr. Bragan Hour of every time.
Going once. Yeah. Yeah. You can hear it on Spotify too, but also on substack. All right, let's go on
and have Ginger pick up again. And I also want to mention that another reason we wanted to have
her on is because she works closely with Dr. Tara Lynn. Yes. Yes. On the gas like true gas lit
truth podcast. Yes. And what are these ladies are? These wonderful professionals are really dynamic
and interesting and exciting to listen to. And their their websites have a great deal of information.
And a lot of people and a lot of people. Oh, these two women. Yeah. Yeah.
It's pretty neat. What's what started between Terry and I as calling on the phone for hours
talking about psych med harm, talking about how I could get through withdrawal, talking about
references like just getting into these deep almost philosophical conversations about our
profession as therapists and the harm we've perpetuated over the years because we didn't know
what we didn't know, right? Western education gave us one heck of a siloed view on psychiatric
medication and how great it is. And so we'd spend hours talking. And finally here and I were like,
we need to put this we need to put this into a show. We've we've got to do a podcast on this.
And we didn't know where it was going to go. We didn't know what was going to happen. And here
we are now, you know, over 110 episodes later and a following growing of people who want to hear
what we've got to say. So it's it's pretty cool. Yeah. It's wonderful. Yeah. Welcome to the
Greg and I. Hey, it is so it's so great to be here. I mean, I so Peter, your book psychiatric
drug withdrawal, not only as like a as a therapist who's understand what is trying to understand
every single thing I possibly can about psychiatric medication, but to set that aside as a consumer
who has trying to go off of psychiatric meds, your book was the very first book I ever read.
And every single concept in that book blew my mind because I'm like, why didn't nobody teach me
this? Like two degrees, a licensure later, all these practicals, it I knew none of this.
And it was an awakening for me. So to have the conscience of psychiatry sitting in front of me
is pretty damn cool. So thank you, Peter. It's really. It's a pleasure to be talking with you too.
It's really cool to be here. So you will recover all this stuff with time that you were talking about.
Yeah, to be sure you about that. Yeah. And it's slowly coming down. People seem to really get over
their drugs when they get off. Yeah. Unless there's some really particular illness they got from them,
that was very damaging. And I think the hardest part of this too when I look back is,
you know, I was 40 years old when I finally had some information on drug harm. Okay, I'm 43 now.
I was 40 years old when I decided to dive down the rabbit hole of, well, what if psychiatric
drugs aren't the gold standard of treatment like I've been taught? And the hardest part to rectify
with this is as I learned more and I have now been two and a half years into tapering off of
an SSRI. I look back to that 16 or 17 year old self and just go, gosh, how is it that in all 25
years? No one ever said to me, hey, maybe it's time you don't need this anymore. Or remember that
issue you had that you went on when you were a teenager, when you went on that drug? Do you still
have that problem in your life anymore? Because if you don't, why are you still taking this, right?
And that's the part of this that I think I have to keep grappling with. I didn't get curious enough.
I didn't get curious enough sooner. It took 25 years and two degrees in a field and to finally just
at some point, something dropped in my lap where I went, yeah, why am I still on this?
That's one of the harder parts. And that's something that I talk a lot with my clients about when
I work with them is, you know, how did this start for you? And are those still the same issues
you have now? Because it's very rare I meet with people like myself. We've been on psychiatric
drugs for years, not months, not the four to six weeks for the drug trial, years and years.
And what's happened over those years and the damage that can be done. And, you know, the
irreversible effects and all the medical issues I've had in my life and, you know, you just look back
and go, this all could have been because of that. But nobody ever, no one ever told me.
I just went with what was being told, which is, oh, does it seem to be helping? Sure, you're not
depressed. Okay, well, good. Let's just keep you on it. Well, what kind of mom are you going to be
if you go off those drugs, Jen? Like, remember, you started them because you were depressed.
Okay, well, we got to be careful with that now that you're going to be having kids.
The manipulative language around this that was said to me and that I hear every day with my clients
and how to get people to get curious about that there maybe is another side to this?
That's the challenge I tried to take on. And I want to tell people, you know,
that I want you to get curious about it because that's where change starts to happen.
As soon as you start to really get curious about stuff that you never quite thought could be a thing.
That's so important. And, you know, it's no accident that you weren't asked that question and that
patients who have been prescribed psychiatric drugs are never asked that question because
I mean, the question of the question of how could you do without them and do you still have
that same problem and have you considered ever tapering down on your drugs and coming off of them?
That the whole system is designed to suppress any inquiry that has to do with stopping psychiatric
drugs over a long period of time or whatever. And that's because the drug company influence is so
overwhelmingly present in medicine and as well as psychology and psychiatry and through media,
through social media and through the legacy media, you know, the newspapers we used to read and
magazines. And in addition to that, those drug companies have in this country permission from
the FDA to advertise directly to consumers. And I'm sorry, I lost track.
Yeah, I distracted you. I wasn't sure if that noise was...
No, it's Bella and I don't think it's going to get Bella is sitting under my desk and
on a little pad that's like a pad for her to lie on and she's busily trying to dig a hole to China
which she does. It's the action of a sweet little mammal trying to create a nest when there are no leaves.
I don't think the mic picks it up and I think I can't hear it guys. I can't hear it on my.
I'm sure our listeners will be very tolerant. So anyway, all I was saying was here in this country,
the big drug companies spend a vast majority of their promotional funds advertising directly through
radio, TV, social media, etc. And that in itself puts a clamp on any legacy media being
interested in interviewing someone like you Jen or like Dr. Bragan. The other thing is that
the censorship industry and it's become an industry now. Those PRs and those content managers
and so forth that all the big tech social media has were massively expanded during COVID so that
you've got people looking over all of our shoulders and you've got algorithms and computerized
programs searching for key words that then alert sensors to come in and tell you Jen or tell
us here at home that you absolutely must not talk about deeper scribing. You can't talk about
coming off of the drugs. You certainly can't talk about the MRNA vaccine and so forth and so
so on. Right. Well, and even coming from someone who's not a medical provider, as you had said,
Peter, you know, I don't have a medical doctor. I am a licensed professional counselor.
All right, that is that is my license. I am told repeatedly that by talking about
risk benefits and alternatives of psychiatric medication, which is what informed consent is, right?
I am told that I am grossly out of the scope of my practice and that this is such a problem and
I get shut down so frequently for that. And so to your point, Ginger, yes, that is that and that's
an algorithm that's pushed that there is a there's a social dialogue around this that is, you know,
that that continues to be filtered. Yes, I mean, it's like climbing up a mountain forever.
And I get the word out. Yeah, I'm never going to hit the tap, right? I'll get a few steps in and
maybe somebody will go, hey, I can see you and I'll go, okay, great. One person saw me.
I want you to know, Jen, that Peter's been doing this kind of education for the public about
the damaging effects and psychiatric drugs and other biological psychiatric interventions,
any kind of attempt to harm healthy tissue, which is what has treatment, shock treatment,
psychocergery, lobotomy, yeah, electrical stimulation, right? Right. And any of those,
gosh, I lost my track again. And I interrupted you on your list. I think so.
They've probably going to say this is all been met with resistance. Well, yes, it started this.
We've been experiencing this at one point or another all along. And yet, what happens again and
again, and this is the good part is we don't hear about the numbers of people we've reached
through Peter's books through our own podcasts and our own radio shows through our website,
except sometimes 10, 20, 30 years, 40 years after the person has received a message that Peter sent
out into the world, we get an email or a comment in our sub-stack or something else.
Someone will say, I heard from Dr. Bragan 25 years ago, or I read toxic psychiatry back in 1990,
or et cetera, et cetera, or I heard him in 1980 at a conference that he presented at.
And they inevitably have amazing stories to tell about how that redirected a portion of their lives
to enable them to, for instance, refuse Ritalin for their child in school, stand up against the
school wanting to just drug their little boy as he came in because he was rambunctious or helped
them themselves in understanding what was going on and then working out themselves how to
do withdrawal. So your words mean so much more and reach so many more people than you'll ever know.
It's truly, it's a miracle every time it happens. And you're part of that. You're part of
people healing in their lives every day when you and Dr. Terrellin do your podcast and through
your work. Yeah, we're there to ruffle feathers. We are there to whistle blow. We are there to do
all of the things that seem out of context and crazy and yet they really aren't the things we're
talking about. Like the world has painted these as so controversial. But yeah, they really aren't,
you know, just for the brain folks. Yeah, like, it really isn't. Like when you, when you boil this
down to just basic, basic, like how I would talk to my, my son, my 12 year old son, I would say,
what you're doing right now, what you're eating. Here's how it's impacting your brain.
Here's what happens to your amygdala in your hippocampus when you do insert whatever it is.
Anything that goes into the mouth and that goes into the body. So I do a lot of nutrition work with
people, right? Anything that goes in that mouth hole. If you think for a second, it's not going to
impact your brain. You're actually grossly inaccurate, right? And that includes psychiatric medications.
As well, anything that's going to change how your brain organically wants to function,
then we're going to have an issue. You can't get something for nothing, right? The output is going
to change. And if you just look at that from the most basic, how you'd say it to our sixth
grader science, like they're like, oh, yeah. And as long as we view something as a treatment and
not a drug, it is always going to be viewed as a treatment. And that's where it gets really messed
up because that's how it's viewed is as a treatment. And it's not. When I talk to my clients about
psychiatric drugs, I talk about the mechanism of action. And I will compare it to another drug that's
a stimulant or to caffeine or to like, I will lay it all out there. And I will talk about that with
them. And they'll kind of sit there kind of dumbfounded. And I'm like, the same things happening in
the brain. But you've been taught that this one thing is a treatment. And it's helpful. But the
mechanism of action is the same. And they kind of just sit there and they're like, huh.
I've never thought about it that way. And I'm like, well, no, because you've never been given
informed information in that way either. Right. And so it opens these discussions about viewing
things in a way that they need to be viewed and a drug to be viewed as a drug. Because that's what
it is. It's altering the state of the brain. So it's like a talk about it simply, very simply.
And we don't have to get crazy in the science. I'm not, you know, simple. That's wonderful. We are
out of time again. This is our second set segment. And we will be right back with part three.
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Peter, just so you don't run out of time at the end, I'd love for you to be able to comment
at this point because I know at the very end we have to, we are compelled to stop because
we can't air longer than the time we're allotted by the radio station.
Well, why don't you share anything else you'd like to share?
You're watching me ginger gently try to deal with a major conflict that often happens at the
end of the show and which is I cut him off. The effects are marriage.
And well, we work through it. She's going to get little signs to put up in front of me.
So, so I did be like an authority there, making the statement a card, two minutes left, that kind of
thing. But thank you, ginger. I think it's really good because otherwise I would have waited
longer to comment. Yeah, I think it's good to have this opportunity. Thank you for this positive
way of handling it. You're welcome. So like saying, hey, here's some time. See, I learned from
you every day still. Go ahead. Yeah, it is. Thank you, honey. So, go ahead.
I'm often working with couples because I like to have a person involved, somebody that's close to
them when they're coming off the meds. In case they get very angry and upset, they need somebody
to tell them, hey, it's maybe the trouble to draw or they become very depressed and self
injurious and thinking about hurting themselves or something to have somebody right there to say,
don't think it's your life. Everything is going pretty good right now.
Honey, this is the drugs doing it. Do you remember you talked to Wonders about that?
And it's so interesting because what I specialize in is helping people love each other again
because a woman who's been 25 years on a drug has very likely lost her some of her affection for
her dogs or children or life or work or something else. And I've seen some wonderful things go on
where women, when they realize this, they start talking to their children about it and their
children are so happy to hear mom recognizing how she wasn't quite this fully there in childhood.
They can talk about it and make up for it as adults. A lot of positive things come out of realizing
these things and people as they come off the drugs, they do kind of remember as you were describing
that they don't remember and if those things they can revisit with loved ones and start remembering
more of and being told more about relearning. There's a lot of positive things that can happen
and they can start to love again. And once people are loving each other again then they probably
don't need me anymore. Maybe just a few directions on how to talk to your wife like you actually do
love her or to your husband. People need to learn to do that in our culture. They shy about
putting a very high priority on the love between them. And that's one of the worst things about
psych drugs. They're anti-love drugs. But it's a tough subject to sell to anybody. I had a book
that I thought would be grabbed up and made at best sell right away called anti-love drugs. I
loved the title, anti-love drugs. Little subhead about what your psychiatric drugs might have to
do in your marriage. And but we've never been able to sell. I've had top agents try. I've had
a turn down by always without explanation by top publishers. I've got to read it.
And I think there are also anti-god drugs. They provide this kind of generalized cognitive dysfunction.
And despite what atheists and leftists and communists tell us, believing God's a higher function,
not lower function, and requires a very spiritual attitude to it life.
Requires a sophisticated way of thinking that evolved slowly over you and you met within
humanity, going through all kinds of stages along the way from worshipping rocks and stones.
It's all in the Bible and getting able to actually love one another.
I think that when you withdraw from psychiatric drugs, the one of the things you'll experience
is your ability to love increases and with it all, the term oil that goes along with that.
It's good to have a psychotherapist like you are a psychotherapist, helping people withdraw.
You do a much better job than a non-psychotherapist because when people come off the psych drugs,
they start to have no their feelings become available. That's exactly it. The drugs take away the
bad, but they take away all the good as well. They just reduce the human being.
Yes, and myself, I've experienced that. I was explaining to somebody the other day,
the stuff you said about marriage, it's real hard and I don't know if we have time to talk too much
about it, but it's got 11 minutes. Okay, we have 11 minutes. Okay, before we get into that,
I want to talk about it. I think it's really important to talk about it.
I think it's imperative. In fact, on the Guest Literature's podcast, we have now had multiple
guests come on and talk about that exact thing. Facebook groups like anti-depressants ruin
marriages. We've had guests come on from that group. They follow us. They're fantastic.
And we all talk about this idea of really, truly not being able to
feel connection to somebody and to feel that closeness and to truly feel love.
Like at the beginning of the show, when you were talking about your definition of love,
I'm thinking, well, if somebody asked me that, it'd be like, well, it's a noun. It means to be
fond of a strong attachment. I'd give you the logical Webster's Dictionary answer,
because that's all I'm able to muster up, but I know it's there and I can slowly feel
different levels of it coming back as I'm titrating off of my medication.
But it's a very interesting space because it almost takes away a piece of who you are.
I can't feel certain emotion. I still can't. I can't feel pride if my life depended on it.
I have tried to feel it. I have tried to sit in it. I've tried to manifest that. I've tried to
meditate around this for years. I still can't. It'll calm. I know it will. But something as simple
as that, when you can't feel these emotion states, these deeper emotions, you can't make a connection
like that in your marriage with somebody. There's implications to that over time.
I don't think people recognize how that can happen. In fact, they don't know what's happening
when they're in it. They're spellbound, as you know. That's a thing. I didn't know it. I would blame
every issue in my marriage on my husband. When in reality, I couldn't even understand myself
and my role in everything. Because I can't get to that level of self-understanding.
You can't get there. You think you can. You think you're there. But you can't.
And so how that implicates itself within relationships, within your marriage,
how going through PSSD, for example, can impact your inability to have a sexual experience.
Let's PSSD with your spouse. Post SSRI, sexual dysfunction.
Oh, there you go. And that's huge.
For some people, they're all genuine. You haven't gone through that. You're still on a med.
No, actually, I've been on this med on it, off it, on it, off it. I would increase it, decrease it.
The seasons would change. I'd go from 20 to 5. My prescriber would say,
Jen, you know how you get in the summer. Go down on it. And the winter, go back up.
So talk about the ability of protracted withdrawal to just continue to harm itself repeatedly
over 25 years for me. So I have gone on and off, up and down, right? And what that's done to me.
And what that does when it comes to sexual dysfunction, when it comes to the inability
to connect with someone on that level, no, it becomes newsweather in sports. It's a task.
It's not something that I can feel a deeper connection in.
Those are the issues that can come and they're implicated within marriages and within relationships
when you are on a psychiatric drug. I was never told that. That wasn't a thing. I was told,
well, Jen, I think you might need a sex therapist if this is what's happening in your marriage.
That's what I was told by my prescribers. And so, of course, what did I do? I wouldn't look
for sex therapist, right? I'm like, I guess I need to find somebody, right? Like, I have no
sexual drive anymore. I'm not, I don't, I can't feel that for my spouse. And when you start a
psychiatric medication, when you're a teenager and your entire, your whole body isn't even developed
yet, right? Your immune system is still trying to figure out what to do. Your metabolic structures
have, I mean, my goodness, none of that's developed in four months. Yeah, into your mid-twenties,
right? Like, like, none of that has happened for me. I was stunted so early. I was stunted at such
an early age. And so it... Thank you for being so brave as to share with us. Yeah, that's really
true. This is so brave. This is so brave. For when you're in there, loved what they're loving
husbands, don't stand. You're welcome. And I think what you said, Peter, is so important. When I work
with people and even my husband will attest to this, having somebody who understands drug withdrawal
is that's the battle. Dozing down is the easy part. Like, that part is easy. You have withdrawal,
we'll dose back up. You understand your symptomology, you play around with that. That's the easy part.
It's figuring out who you are and having somebody that can be by your side to understand what's
happening and support that. I think is probably the bigger task to this. The science behind
deeper describing is easy. The psychology behind it is the difficult part. That's the hardest part.
When you're trying to discover who you are and you don't know because you have been so numb
out for so many years, you sit in front of your spouse and you're like, I don't even know who I am.
You feel an emotion and you're like, I don't know what that is. I've never experienced
like true loss. And so now you've got to go back through and understand and feel all the loss
that you couldn't process before because you didn't know how. So to have somebody next to you
who understands that is huge. And I'd like to add just very briefly that the sexual dysfunction
also frequently accompanies taking SSRIs and other psyched drugs from men and young men.
And again, if a young man is in his late teens and he started on an SSRI and he starts to have
erectile dysfunction, he doesn't have a clue. And the next thing you know, he's going to go online
to the hymns website and talk to a teladoc and get a prescription for ED, erectile dysfunction
medication. And then he's taking two things. The second thing because the first thing is
injuring him without him understanding that it's the psychiatric drug.
I'm not aware of any such information about hymns in particular.
Oh, yeah, sorry. I used that as an example of the multiple numbers of online ED
resources that are there that you don't know what they're saying that people can
can. Well, they offer ED medication with teladoc.
Pretty easily accessible. It's very easy accessible. I myself went to the hers website and put in
all kinds of symptomology that I could be having. And boy, it's pretty darn easy to get a prescription
sent to my home. And I'm not criticizing that because these human beings who need to
any of us human beings who need to get that kind of help, they deserve all the help they can get.
But they aren't fully informed as you're saying about the fact. That's what they deserve.
Yeah, they and they that's the part I think that people are missing.
Is the risks, the benefits, the alternatives, like a conversation around what in what really
truly makes you informed before you start that drug so that you can make the best decision.
For someone to say to him, actually, this is very common. 50 to 60% of men that go on an SSRI
do have PSSD. And here's what it is. It can be emotional numbness. It can be genital numbness.
It can be erectile dysfunction. It can be all these things, right? And it's it could be that the
drug is doing this. I don't know. I'm not in love. Right. It could be. Yes. If your love
feelings are suppressed, so maybe your sexual feelings because it's all one package guys.
Right. And your or could be your hormones are being altered. How easily it is that when we
change the structure of the brain and how the neurochemistry is happening, we're going to alter
hormones. And so that could be leading to what's occurring. All these different possibilities.
But that's what an informed conversation should be. That's what should be given to patients.
And unfortunately, it's not. And so I just feel like that's kind of where I come in.
And even in my therapy practice, people get very inquisitive about the medications and the drugs.
And I will have informed conversations with them. I'll have people ask me, I'm taking a bunch of
meds. How effective is EMD are going to be for me, Jen? If I can't process emotion. Or how
effective is psychotherapy? You're even cognitive behavioral therapy going to be for me.
And I will have a conversation about that. And those are all very smart questions. They're valid.
It's absolutely valid. We have one minute and 45 seconds left, Jen. Would you let people know how
they can reach you? Either for both for your podcast with Dr. Terrell and those who can
reach out to you as a therapist. Sure. So if you're looking for therapy services or you're looking
for some coaching on deeper scribing, you can find me on my website, which is genschmits.com.
Jen with two ends, genschmits.com. Very simple. And if you're looking for the Gas Lit Truth podcast,
you can find it on my website or you can go to the Gas Lit Truth podcast at gmail.com.
And that's got all things gas light on there. So pretty easy to find me or to find the show.
Great. Peter, we've got one minute. I think you're wonderful.
Thank you. Jen, I think you're doing really good work. We should come back again and talk about
love and marriage. That's something that I'm thinking about doing in my next book on.
Yes. How do you relate to people in a loving way for a whole bunch of years? How long will we
be together? 42 years, honey. How did that happen? It just rolled right along and then it happened
and God bless you and God bless us. We're very fortunate. And Jen, thank you so much. Thank you.
And thank God for having me on. Yes. And God bless you too. We'll be in touch again soon. Thank you.

Self-Improvement | America Out Loud News

Self-Improvement | America Out Loud News

Self-Improvement | America Out Loud News